It seems that you can be banned from England for being right wing and opiniated!

[Phaia]

When I am bored and need amusement I listen to talk radio. Especially some of the right wing talk shows. They can be so weird and though they dont realize it, they can be down right funny with how they go on and on and on about a subject.

But even though they can be annoying this does bother me!

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=97127

I, for one, can not understand why England did this. Is this Micheal Savage so bad that he needs to be banned from England?

Phaia

[Oniya]

I've never listened to him, but he's had quite a few controversial incidents that sound pretty horrible.  You might want to do a search on him and look at what it is that he's been put on the list for, rather than focusing on the fact that he's on the list.

[Jude]

There are two levels to this debate, I suppose, the more abstract discussion of principle and the concrete example of Savage himself.  I'll start with the former because it eventually directly leads into the latter:



I don't think this is a freedom of speech issue.  Freedom of speech a nationally internal concept:  it's the idea that you can say whatever you want (with few limitations) without being persecuted by your own government.  It's very funny that an opponent of illegal immigration who is constantly comparing the lack of an airtight border to "suicide" is now complaining that England is reserving the right to keep him out.  I'm pretty sure he's also argued that the President of Iran shouldn't have been allowed on US soil about a year back as well.  No, he's not as bad as the President of Iran (only because he's lacking the power to do anything too horrific in my mind), but if you expose the right to exclude undesirable persons in one instance, then you have to agree with the general principle enough that it being applied towards you comes down to a judgment call (and thus the second part of my argument).



Now for the more important discussion:  Michael Savage is a hateful, idiotic, bigot of the highest order.  There are few issues this guy isn't on the wrong side of.  On his show he regularly goes into blatantly racist rants (often insulting minorities I've never even heard of -- what is a mung?), complains about the direction the country is taking socially while slandering people who live in anything but a 1950s lifestyle of delusional self-oppression, says all sorts of scientifically ridiculous things (he's a homeopath and doesn't believe in Global Warming because "carbon dioxide" is needed by plants, and that's literally his whole argument), and worst of all he passes off his beliefs as if they're educated and intelligent with his "Dr." moniker (and nearly 100% of the time the opinions he's professing are either outdated or completely out of his area of study).

He likes to refer to liberalism as a "mental disorder," claims that the pornography industry is destroying the country by weakening men and convincing the youth that casual sex is both consequence free and a virtue.  His opinion on Islam (which is the specific reason he was banned) is especially inflammatory:  he essentially believes in no compromise, thinks moderate Muslims are a myth, and regularly says incredibly hateful things towards the religion as a whole.

You know what this post needs?  Quotes.  I wish I could put up some fine classical music in the background why you read this, in fact, I think I'll pull up something on Youtube.  Here you go:

(BWV 847) Bach: Prelude and Fugue in C Minor, WTC I (equal durations)

Savage on homosexuals:  "Oh, so you're one of those sodomites. You should only get AIDS  and die, you pig; how's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig? You got nothing better to do than to put me down, you piece of garbage? You got nothing to do today? Go eat a sausage, and choke on it. Get trichinosis. Now do we have another nice caller here who's busy because he didn't have a nice night in the bathhouse who's angry at me today? Put another, put another sodomite on....no more calls?...I don't care about these bums; they mean nothing to me. They're all sausages"

Savage on Autism:  "Now, the illness du jour is autism. You know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot.'"

Savage on Science, Liberals, and drugs:  "Every day, brainwashing 'til you don't know the difference between right and wrong, family and a fake family, real science and morons who are on drugs inventing science -- science fiction, that is. You don't know anything anymore in this country. You've been brainwashed by the liberal elite -- the establishment -- if you want to call them elite. How can you call drug addicts elite?"

Savage on Immigrant Students:  "Then there's the story of college students who are fasting out here in the Bay Area. They're illegal aliens and they want green cards simply because they're students. I don't understand what -- how this two and two adds up. I would say, let them fast until they starve to death, then that solves the problem. Because then we won't have a problem about giving them green cards because they're illegal aliens; they don't belong here to begin with. They broke into the country; they're criminals. Why do I owe them a green card? Because they're going to my colleges for free?"

Savage on Valueless Immigrants and European Supremacy:  "...when you bring immigrants in from Europe -- whether they be Irish, whether they be Italian, whether they be English, whether they be Romanian, whether they be Czechoslovakian, whether they be Yugoslavian, whether they be German -- they're from Europe, and there is a melting pot possibility... When you start bringing in masses of immigrants from everywhere on Earth, you don't have a melting pot; they cannot be melted into an American, and that's what's going on in the country today. We're bringing in millions of people from countries that have no compatibility with the values of Europe, not any values whatsoever."

Savage on Islam:  "The Islamists smell weakness in the West and are attacking us on several fronts at once: one, through outright war; two, through immigration; three, through their propaganda disseminated through the liberal media and four, through the liberal courts. Only a devastating military blow against the hearts of Islamic terror coupled with an outright ban on Muslim immigration, laws making the dissemination of enemy propaganda illegal, and the uncoupling of the liberal ACLU can save the United States. I would also make the construction of mosques illegal in America and the speaking of English only in the streets of the United States the law."



By the way, his name isn't even savage, it's Weiner.  He changed it because he wanted to be more hardcore.  Thug life, ya'll.

[Lilias]

On his show he regularly goes into blatantly racist rants (often insulting minorities I've never even heard of -- what is a mung?)

Mung   Vietnamese people that were relocated to America by the US government during and after the Vietnam War. It's actually the correct pronunciation of the word "Hmong", mountain-dwelling people inhabiting southeastern China and the northern parts of Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand.

The Racial Slur Database

[Phaia]

I agree Jude, Savage is an idiot but he does make a long drive less boring and I have those several times a week!

I can not agree with 95% of what he talks about and I tend to be a moderate!

Phaia

[Oniya]

*suggests hitting the library for a good audiobook?*

[Jude]

I sometimes like to listen to him too.  His antics can be amusing.  He tells an awful lot of anecdotes that are strange, meandering, rambles lacking any coherent theme beyond "in my day..."

[Mystique]

I've heard some of his talks. Kind of pity the guy for his inability to understand the complexity of human issues. Comes off as a homophobic racist with a superiority complex but hey there is still freedom of speech right? His talks are mainly based on people arguing with his point of view (and there are many that argue) and hence ratings are probably great. He has Masters in Medical botany and medical anthropology as well as a PhD in nutritional ethno-medicine (according to Wikipedia). In short, he does not have the qualifications to analyse social science issues and his rants talks are mainly personal opinions. Personal opinion does not necessarily reflect the truth of a situation...

[RubySlippers]

That is the nice thing about being in the US we have real free speech with mostly fair restrictions like you can't threaten to shoot a public figure with a gun while at a rally where there are guns as an example. But we proudly let: skinheads, kkk people, black nationalists, holocaust deniers, flat earth society people, homeless people panhandling and others be protected because like my father said..

I'm a soldier and I may not like them saying something but I'm willing to die for their right to say it, and can still call them an idiot if I want. - retired decorated army nco with his 30 years in fighting for this nation I think his opinion should carry some value here

In other nations they clearly don't understand what true Free Speech is. The party saying the holocaust never happened and the other sides calling them idiots and refuting them in the realm of ideas if Free Speech. I find making such views illegal when talking about them as offensive as if someone goes up to a black man and calls him a "Filthy Nigger". I feel the freedom of speech gives no party freedom from feeling bad or protection from ideas they may not like. People should have the right to sound like idiots.

[Lilias]

In other nations they clearly don't understand what true Free Speech is.

...

That's so ignorant it's not even funny. Especially if you believe that the US don't have such a list.

People should have the right to sound like idiots.

And the rest of us should have the right to point, laugh, and not play with them.

[RubySlippers]

I'm sure we do but why are they on the list?

I would make a legitimate case keeping out a radical Muslim terrorist supporter who uses speech to recruit the enemy as a real threat to the nation, its no different than when there is any conflict and we use our laws to keep out threats that can include moral support aiding and abetting an enemy we are fighting. One American citizen doing this overseas is an assassination target and he should be. If this person on the other hand promoted fundamenal Islam as a person of faith and did not actively recruit and promote hostility to the US that would be another matter say he supported incorporating Sharia Law into the Constitution and nothing more.

Lennon had no small flak for not supporting peace but when he funded radical elements that did aid and abette the enemies of the US the government started to act, foolishly in my view. Its clear from my own study he was being used by others.

But Savage what did he do to deserve this using speech even if racist and bigoted for me alone not grounds for being blackballed no one accused him of terrorist support or anything specific or even point to cases where his speech did cause an attack.

[Oniya]

On April 17, 2006, he said of Muslims  "They say, "Oh, there's a billion of them." I said, "So, kill 100 million of them, then there'll be 900 million of them." I mean, would you rather die — would you rather us die than them?"source and source.

Is this somehow not suggesting violence?

[Lilias]

A treasury of Savage quotes

Review of 'The Savage Nation'

A bit of British press

The individual offends me as a human being, and that's about the most fundamental reason to declare someone persona non grata that I can imagine.

[Hemingway]

Opinionated? You're absolutely sure it's not because he's an utter moron? I mean, read those quotes. Who says that sort of thing? Who believes that sort of thing?

[Jude]

If it was our government cracking down on him I would have a problem, but other governments do not have to play nice with him.  Nations are like the clubs; they have the right to exclude people they don't like so long as that person is not a member.  I don't see why they owe Savage anything.  If England banned me from going there for no reason I wouldn't like it, but it's well within their rights.

[Silk]

Don't forget you can be extrodited to America regardless of human rights legislations to face them in court with no backing from your own country for a crime you commited while under the age of responsibility in the eyes of the law.

Yeah America is so clean cut on the issue too Ruby.

People have the right of freedom of speech, but they also have the right to not have to listen to it. The line comes when what is being said is malicious.

[Chevalier des Poissons]

That is the nice thing about being in the US we have real free speech

In 2003, Michael Moore, during the Oscar ceremony, criticized George W. Bush and the war in Iraq.

Within some weeks all his credit cards were cut and his funds went away.

That's a hell of a freedom of speech, really.

[Jude]

Michael Moore lies:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture//3664554/Taking-on-the-big-man.html

[Vekseid]

If you read Michael Moore's writing, he comes off as either half deranged or a publicity whore who internally justifies what he does because it is for a 'good' cause. It's quite irritating. Not the least of which is because he's held up as some sort of icon of the left, and his many indiscretions are used to tarnish the entire movement.

[Florence]

If you read Michael Moore's writing, he comes off as either half deranged or a publicity whore who internally justifies what he does because it is for a 'good' cause. It's quite irritating. Not the least of which is because he's held up as some sort of icon of the left, and his many indiscretions are used to tarnish the entire movement.

I'm torn about Michael Moore, on one hand, there's a video out there of him and a bus full of gay guys, involving them trolling Fred Phelps, which, frankly, made my day. On the other hand, yeah, he comes off as a bit of a pompous ass, even if I do agree with many of his views.

On the topic of Michael Savage... I frankly find him to be a repulsive, disgusting excuse for a human being, and would probably laugh myself to death if he got hit by a bus and died. I don't believe this is necessarily a freedom of speech issue, though, unless they ban any of his work there as well. Personally, I disagree with the UK's decision here, since I think it's important to let even radical psychotic morons like Savage express their opinion without being punished for it, however, they do have the right to bar entry to their country to anyone they deem fit, and if the British people have an objection to this decision, they can deal with it themselves.

[Lilias]

I think they have figured that there are enough homegrown nutjobs in the country for it not to need imports :P

[Silk]

I think they have figured that there are enough homegrown nutjobs in the country for it not to need imports :P

Sounds about right, we don't really need more.

[Chevalier des Poissons]

Sounds about right, we don't really need more.

D= So I will have to look normal to get in there?

[Oniya]

Going by your picture, you should get through customs fine ;)

[Chevalier des Poissons]

Going by your picture, you should get through customs fine ;)

:-[

Thankies dear <3