John McCain scares me.

[Kathadon]

John McCain scares me, and I don't scare easy. I got to watch a speech old John gave today on the League of Democracies or whatever he wants to calls his new NATOish club. And he doesn't want China in it? Okay...  Sure they are not a democracy, okay I understand. Little like teasing a sleeping pitbull with a stick ,but hey ,you make the club you get to decide who is in it.

Now he doesn't want friggan Russia in it either?! How the hell do you get anything done in the middle east by excluding them? Really? Seriously? Is he trying to restart the cold war? After hearing this man's comments on Iran, North Korea, Iraq and now this. It is really troubling.

Now I understand Putin is as close to a dictator as you can get without rolling tanks into Red Square. But to shut out an entire country that has democratic elections just because we don't like who they elected is just plain wrong. After the U.S.S.R. imploded at such a fast pace it is rather natural that the hardliners would want to roll back some of the progress. It is up to the Russian people to decide, just like us, who they want to vote for and how much corruption they will take. I don't see any major protests or condemnations from the U.N. about the recent joke election. So why try and roll back all the sympathy credit we have with the Russian people by insulting them like this? Old Ronald Reagen must be spinning in his grave.

I am honestly feeling that McCain is either a war monger or stuck in the 80's in his thinking. His economics plan reeks of voodoo and trickle down, just like the late 80's early 90's plans of Ronnie and George Senior. He rails against universal health care like it is the worst thing since ever. Then he doesn't support the troops getting a cost of inflation increase to the G.I. bill for college. So much for caring about the troops. He supports Stop Loss. The most bull shit plan ever for our troops who volunteer to serve this country.

God I pray the democrats don't fuck this election up. This man is a dangerous hypocrite, and if he gets elected I fear we will be seeing a real war in the near future.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Nobody in the two-party duopoly is intellectually equipped to handle the very wrenching changes that are coming--already underway, in fact--to the United States.

In 2000, the dollar was the undisputed king of currencies, America was the world's only superpower, oil was in the $30 a barrel range, and nothing seemed like it could ever go wrong.  The high-energy, cheap-oil blowout seemed like it would go on forever.

Today, the dollar is in steep decline, America's power is being challenged by China, Russia and Iran, oil is $120 a barrel.  The days of cheap oil are over.  The airlines are dying.  Most Americans don't realize that, within a matter of months to a couple years, air travel as we have known it for the past four decades will be over.  Within a couple of years.  Not decades.  Not "sometime around the middle of the century."  Once airlines start having to pay $5 to $6 a gallon for jet fuel, they will lose money until they go bankrupt.  A couple may survive, doing what airlines did back around 1955 or so: catering to the rich.  Remember the term "jet set?"  It's coming back.  Air travel will be a luxury, with a few highly-priced flights serving the major cities.

This is just one of the many changes we're facing, and the old guard hasn't a clue how to handle it.

[Trieste]

All of the current candidates scare me, to grater and lesser degrees, and for varying reasons.

I'm so tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. I did it in 2004. I would have done it in 2000 had I been old enough to vote... lemme tell you how pissed off I was when they were STILL COUNTING VOTES when my 18th birthday passed (Nov 30th) and yet I couldn't cast one.

Even thinking about the current election just roasts me silly. This only adds to it... though not by much, as the Repubs scare me more than the Dems do any day.

[The Overlord]

Today, the dollar is in steep decline, America's power is being challenged by China, Russia and Iran, oil is $120 a barrel.  The days of cheap oil are over.  The airlines are dying.  Most Americans don't realize that, within a matter of months to a couple years, air travel as we have known it for the past four decades will be over.  Within a couple of years.  Not decades.  Not "sometime around the middle of the century."  Once airlines start having to pay $5 to $6 a gallon for jet fuel, they will lose money until they go bankrupt.  A couple may survive, doing what airlines did back around 1955 or so: catering to the rich.  Remember the term "jet set?"  It's coming back.  Air travel will be a luxury, with a few highly-priced flights serving the major cities.

That's completely unsustainable. The 1950's were another world and we can't go back to that.

Price out the general public in air trouble, and you take down entire state and local economies based on tourism. Fremont Street in Vegas will be a canopied lane for tumbleweeds and Florida will roll over and die. Everyday business depends on air travel, so take that factor out and the economy is gone.

Fuel prices may hamstring the airlines for a while, but it won't put them down forever. Hey, at the end of the day they're a business....they WANT your business. No industry survives by pricing out 99% of its customers; this perspective is borderline paranoia.

In a worst-case scenario, if you can't economically run your planes on jet fuel, then you don't run them on jet fuel. A worst case will force in all sort of new technologies that have been developed and shelved or developed and abandoned because the petrochemical industry was holding onto what they had.

And FYI...if air travel returns to the rich elite alone, that won't just take out the US economy. That will take out the world economy...the WORLD economy, my friend.

[The Overlord]

I'm so tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. I did it in 2004. I would have done it in 2000 had I been old enough to vote... lemme tell you how pissed off I was when they were STILL COUNTING VOTES when my 18th birthday passed (Nov 30th) and yet I couldn't cast one.

On the contrary; with 2008, Obama has given me the first opportunity in years to cast a vote with a clean conscience, that I wasn't just voting the lesser of two evils.

[OldSchoolGamer]

All of the current candidates scare me, to grater and lesser degrees, and for varying reasons.

I'm so tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. I did it in 2004. I would have done it in 2000 had I been old enough to vote... lemme tell you how pissed off I was when they were STILL COUNTING VOTES when my 18th birthday passed (Nov 30th) and yet I couldn't cast one.

[The Overlord]

LOL Hell yeah...you can vote for a Greater Evil!

Ah nix that...vote in an Elder Evil.   :D

[Trieste]

Hee, Ty. Seen it. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome our newly elected overlords, etc...

I'm told that Mickey Mouse still gets the most write-ins, followed closely by Kermit. I may join this particular bandwagon this year.

On the contrary; with 2008, Obama has given me the first opportunity in years to cast a vote with a clean conscience, that I wasn't just voting the lesser of two evils.

I'm certainly glad someone can. I saw your comments elsewhere on reasoning, and I commend you for actually thinking about your choices rather than blindly going in and voting for whoever's running with 'your' party out of some sense of party loyalty.

I, on the other hand, cannot do so. And for that, I envy you.

Edit: Brf. Commend, not comment.

[OldSchoolGamer]

That's completely unsustainable. The 1950's were another world and we can't go back to that.

Price out the general public in air trouble, and you take down entire state and local economies based on tourism. Fremont Street in Vegas will be a canopied lane for tumbleweeds and Florida will roll over and die. Everyday business depends on air travel, so take that factor out and the economy is gone.

It may come to that.  As psychologically satisfying as the notion of American exceptionalism may be, the facts don't support it.  Consider the number of abandoned cities and ghost towns that exist the world over.  Las Vegas enjoys no special immunity to that kind of radical shift, any more than the cliff-dwellings of the Anasazi or Macchu Picchu did.

Fuel prices may hamstring the airlines for a while, but it won't put them down forever. Hey, at the end of the day they're a business....they WANT your business. No industry survives by pricing out 99% of its customers; this perspective is borderline paranoia.

No industry can survive by spending more money providing a good or service than it makes.  Prices will have to come up...way up.

In a worst-case scenario, if you can't economically run your planes on jet fuel, then you don't run them on jet fuel. A worst case will force in all sort of new technologies that have been developed and shelved or developed and abandoned because the petrochemical industry was holding onto what they had.

Such as?

There's no practical alternative to jet fuel on the market today to run airplanes.  True, after many years of R&D, someone might come up with a substance that is liquid, easily transportable, and that contains as much energy per unit of volume.  After more years of R&D, someone might build an engine that runs on it.  Someday.  Trouble is, the wolf is at our door now.

And FYI...if air travel returns to the rich elite alone, that won't just take out the US economy. That will take out the world economy...the WORLD economy, my friend.

That may well happen.  No natural law says it can't.

[The Overlord]

I'm certainly glad someone can. I saw your comments elsewhere on reasoning, and I comment you for actually thinking about your choices rather than blindly going in and voting for whoever's running with 'your' party out of some sense of party loyalty.

I, on the other hand, cannot do so. And for that, I envy you.

Well, by definition my 'party' doesn't exist. I am a liberal by practically any definition I've heard, but it doesn't make me a Democrat. Admittedly, I've voted for way more Democrats on the grounds that party most favors my convictions.

Of course there may be independents that favor them even more, but now we're speaking in terms of candidates that have a proverbial snowball's chance in hell of actually getting in.

Factoring in race, gender, religious affiliation and party affiliation...this time around I keep adding up the numbers. And each time they add up to Obama. I felt good about casting my vote for him in the Georgia primary; last year it was a Kerry-just-to-keep-Bush-out-vote. This November I can sleep soundly on my choice.

[Trieste]

Ah, I wasn't trying to imply you were doing that, but saying that you don't seem to be doing so.

But I believe this has wandered off topic (McCain, that is), and it's also very late here and well past time I should be asleep, so I'm going to regretfully leave it at that.

[The Overlord]

It may come to that.  As psychologically satisfying as the notion of American exceptionalism may be, the facts don't support it.  Consider the number of abandoned cities and ghost towns that exist the world over.  Las Vegas enjoys no special immunity to that kind of radical shift, any more than the cliff-dwellings of the Anasazi or Macchu Picchu did.

I agree here. My brother and I were in Vegas in April, only half-joking that we better see Vegas before the desert claims it. If we don’t change our tune quickly, radical shifts will occur. Vegas is gluttonous excess even by American standards.

Such as?

There's no practical alternative to jet fuel on the market today to run airplanes.  True, after many years of R&D, someone might come up with a substance that is liquid, easily transportable, and that contains as much energy per unit of volume.  After more years of R&D, someone might build an engine that runs on it.  Someday.  Trouble is, the wolf is at our door now.

I don’t know your career and educational background, but unless you can claim a legitimate inside into the related industries pertinent to this topic, you just can’t say that with any real conviction.

Have a look back to World War II. In just a few short years we went from a nation struggling out of the Great Depression with a second-rate army to a world superpower. We laid the basics for microwaves, electronics, nuclear energy, space travel, and many other spinoffs that paved the foundation of the society we live in right now.

Necessity is ever the mother of invention, and maybe the only thing that will breed more necessity than global war will be survival of civilization as we know it.

Don't count out American inventiveness and adaptability anytime soon. If you bet against it, you're betting on a bad horse.

And thing is, MANY alternatives get covered over or abandoned so the status quo can keep playing ball. Electric cars have been around for decades; most of the powers that be shelved research because oil was seemingly endless, GM in particular was responsible for this. But now that the wolf is indeed at our door, you can bet we'll be looking for a better wolf trap.

And again, big business has kept a lot of shit in the closet that just wasn't in their best interest. Unless you can claim an inside, you just can't say for sure something isn't being redeveloped as we speak. Sorry, but you can't.


I'm not denying the coming years won't be bumpy. As far as changes to the environment go, we might all have already had our last perfect day at the beach. But if modern civilization is going to end up redlined to its limits, I say wait...wait and watch the technological Renaissance that's about to occur and transform our lives. Because we'll finally start doing what we needed to be doing years ago.

[OldSchoolGamer]

I don’t know your career and educational background, but unless you can claim a legitimate inside into the related industries pertinent to this topic, you just can’t say that with any real conviction.

Have a look back to World War II. In just a few short years we went from a nation struggling out of the Great Depression with a second-rate army to a world superpower. We laid the basics for microwaves, electronics, nuclear energy, space travel, and many other spinoffs that paved the foundation of the society we live in right now.

And we did all that fueled by cheap, abundant hydrocarbons, aggressively building a manufacturing base second to none.  Well, the hydrocarbons are nearly exhausted, and the manufacturing base went to China. 

Necessity is ever the mother of invention, and maybe the only thing that will breed more necessity than global war will be survival of civilization as we know it.

Don't count out American inventiveness and adaptability anytime soon. If you bet against it, you're betting on a bad horse.

I think civilization will survive...just not civilization as we know it.  I think we're headed for a new mini-Dark Ages, where energy is scarce, life is very local, and luxuries are few.  Hopefully there will be a government left, and energy will be rationed to the R&D facilities where, I believe, a new source of power will eventually be found to renew high-energy civilization.  But the road will be long and hard.

And thing is, MANY alternatives get covered over or abandoned so the status quo can keep playing ball. Electric cars have been around for decades; most of the powers that be shelved research because oil was seemingly endless, GM in particular was responsible for this. But now that the wolf is indeed at our door, you can bet we'll be looking for a better wolf trap.

And again, big business has kept a lot of shit in the closet that just wasn't in their best interest. Unless you can claim an inside, you just can't say for sure something isn't being redeveloped as we speak. Sorry, but you can't.

Yes, we've all heard the stories: cars that run on water, perpetual motion machines, plasma generators, magnetic doo-dads, cold fusion, and whatnot.  Problem is, none of it has ever been shown to work.  It makes for great edgy TV newsmagazine episodes.  And who knows...perhaps it exists and, despite the enormous profits someone could make by bringing it to market, no one has.  But the question is not only whether it exists, but also whether it's scalable to the levels we need it to operate at.  This was the problem with ethanol...people were so anxious to embrace this "renewable" energy source that apparently no one bothered to calculate just how much arable land would be needed to grow even, say, 25% of our fuel supply. 

So I could just as easily turn it around and say that unless you've driven a car that you know runs on water, or have your home powered by a perpetual motion machine, or you have direct experience with the fill-in-the-blank "new" energy source, you can't say for sure it exists.  Saying it's not in widespread use because "they" are covering it up doesn't constitute proof.

I'm not denying the coming years won't be bumpy. As far as changes to the environment go, we might all have already had our last perfect day at the beach. But if modern civilization is going to end up redlined to its limits, I say wait...wait and watch the technological Renaissance that's about to occur and transform our lives. Because we'll finally start doing what we needed to be doing years ago.

The question is, can it be done in time to save America...and the world as we know it?

[The Overlord]

I think civilization will survive...just not civilization as we know it.  I think we're headed for a new mini-Dark Ages, where energy is scarce, life is very local, and luxuries are few.  Hopefully there will be a government left, and energy will be rationed to the R&D facilities where, I believe, a new source of power will eventually be found to renew high-energy civilization.  But the road will be long and hard.

Oh believe me, I'm completely open to the possibility that I'm wasting my time even finishing up in school for a degree in the arts. I've considered the possibility if push comes to shove, and shortages get bad enough, I'll have fight and even kill my fellow man to get what I need (or keep it). Not the prettiest thought that's ever gone through my head, but if the worst-case occurs, none of this will matter anyway.

Yes, we've all heard the stories: cars that run on water, perpetual motion machines, plasma generators, magnetic doo-dads, cold fusion, and whatnot.  Problem is, none of it has ever been shown to work. 

'Shown to work' being the crucial and operative phrase here.

If you're going to bury a new form of energy or propulsion so you can push your own brand, or secretly develop it, last thing you want is common knowledge that works. All, some, or none of the above might actually work, but we're not going to know until we know. Not when they can still sell Brand X, but that will change.

In 2000 I lost my father to cancer. Not just random cancer, but deliberate cancer. I knew next to nothing about mesothelioma prior to all that, but boy oh boy, did I get a crash course in the depths of human depravity and avarice. Not only did the asbestos industry conduct its own secret research in the dangers and health risks of that poison, but upon learning the truth, they buried the results, and countless people have paid the price. If there is a Hell, in my not-so-humble opinion they can't burn slowly or painfully enough in it.

I tell you the truth when I say big business will do anything to turn a profit...anything.

Modern society is an illusion...a fabrication, at least in part. We can't say that we know until we know, because we don't.

As far as water-powered cars go, it's called fuel cell technology and space travel has been using it for decades. We know it works; it's just a matter of literally bringing it down to Earth for all.


Cold fusion might be a myth, but fusion we can do; just not in any form that's remotely energy efficient. But we're learning.

As for the rest; solar, hydroelectric, wind and geothermal, it all works it's just a matter of getting them to be the dominant energy sources, not the alternatives. We're surrounded by stupendous energies every second of our lives. It's just a matter of getting to them successfully, but nothing will push our innovation like the threat of civilization's collapse from lack of energy to drive it. Time will tell.

[Zakharra]

 

Modern society is an illusion...a fabrication, at least in part. We can't say that we know until we know, because we don't.

All of civilization is an illusion in one fashion or another.

As far as water-powered cars go, it's called fuel cell technology and space travel has been using it for decades. We know it works; it's just a matter of literally bringing it down to Earth for all.

It's not feasable(sp) for mass distribution. For that to power a car, equal to the current types of internal combustion engines, with the same fuel range, is beyond such right now. 

Cold fusion might be a myth, but fusion we can do; just not in any form that's remotely energy efficient. But we're learning.

We can do fission too. Fairly effectively and safely right now as well.

As for the rest; solar, hydroelectric, wind and geothermal, it all works it's just a matter of getting them to be the dominant energy sources, not the alternatives. We're surrounded by stupendous energies every second of our lives. It's just a matter of getting to them successfully, but nothing will push our innovation like the threat of civilization's collapse from lack of energy to drive it. Time will tell.

Solar power, it's getting better, but still isn't good enough to make up for a normal power station.  Hydroelectric is a dead end, in the US, we've developed most of the rivers for hydroelectric, and there are enviromentalist groups trying to get the dams that block them for hydro power, broken to let the rivers run free and for the fish. Wind isn't consistent enough either, plus it kills many birds that fly through the turbines. Geothermal is a possibility, but not as a major power source I think. not enough hot springs in the US. We might be able to drill enough deep holes to form a reliable source, but it would take hundreds of thousands of gallons of water to be able to run one.

The best we can do right now is it make cleaner burning coal plants. Coal being one of the US's most abundant energy sources. Drill for oil that we know is here in the US. Gulf Coast, off shore drilling, ANWAR (it is feasable to do within a decent time frame and despite some enviromentalists viewpoints, does promise a good return. It can also be done with minimal damage to the landscape. It's on a frikking tundra for gods sake.

[RubySlippers]

But the UN is useless tell me one thing they ever did that averted a war and that when force was called did base its forces on US Troops?

The US should leave it but I would declare ourselves neutral and not align to anyone and break all military alliances, pull all our troops back to the US and our territories and surrender our status as the only world superpower. The EU wants to save the world then fine its your turn you raise the armies, march all over the world and leave us alone.

Both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were right to stay out of foreign military adventures from day one and be a friend to all nations if they want to.

As for energy there is no substitute for oil its cheap to get, process and move around and generates alot of energy. I think the wise course would be to focus on interstate high speed rail on par with Japans fastest trains and allocate all Federal gasoline taxes to that. Those can be powered anyway you can generate elctricity even solar down the road. And leave air travel viable if  they can do so cost effectively or fall its just another business, we will have to adapt. It would be the first time the US right now has all the resources we need to take care of ourselves and could produce enough food to feed our people, if we had to.

[kongming]

But the UN is useless tell me one thing they ever did that averted a war and that when force was called did base its forces on US Troops?

I seem to recall the UN telling Bush "No, we do not condone this course of action, you are starting a war."
Bush then told them to fuck off and did it anyway, reducing their funding as well.

As for energy there is no substitute for oil its cheap to get, process and move around and generates alot of energy.
[/quote]

For vehicles, perhaps. For power plants, nuclear is the way to go. Less environmental damage (no really), the chances of meltdown are much lower than scaremongers would have you believe, and *once they're up and running*, they provide a lot of cheap energy. The kicker is that they're expensive to set up, and it becomes a matter of "I spend money on it, and thus can't stuff as much in my pockets. The next guy in power benefits from it being completed on my dollar, and saves money with it, and people love him. Screw that!"

Oh, and Ty: The dollar was never the King of currencies, just the Queen. England has always been laughing at the "Superior American Dollars!" There's a British computer game that has "silver pieces" and "Greater American Dollars". The exchange rate is something like $50,000 USD to the silver piece. The pound has always kicked the shit out of everyone else's currency. I just wish the Australian dollar could be worth something for once. No really, I'd like to be able to buy something with a dollar coin.

[Vekseid]

Make it Nuclear!

The first fusion power plant isn't expected to go on-line until 2050, and IFMIF and ITER aren't even properly running yet. Unfortunately for perhaps a lot of the world, the US, Russia, Canada and Australia have few concerns about coal shortages. Economics will force nuclear power back onto the stage, and some previously anti-nuke types are finally seeing the light.

Coal liquefaction and shale will probably help, at least the United States, though the final answer is probably going to be algaculture.

[Kathadon]

Coal liquefaction is a scary prospect Vekseid. Look at what our short lived love affair with ethanol has done to corn futures. *shakes head sadly*

Just imagine what will happen in the short term if even half the coal we need to run our electric power plants is used for gassing up the car. The short term maybe the next decade actually looks pretty bad really, economy wise.

[The Overlord]

A timely article that should interest everyone.


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hfpZd7sSjQH6m99E7NkvDYVL-ywg


Note among other things that the plan calls for 32 additional nuclear power plants per year. Nuclear power got a bad rap, especially in the US. Between Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, many got psyched out on it, and to be fair the potential for misused or mishandled nuclear energy is horrific. But we're going to come to a point where our aversion is overruled by our need.

So this then is the price of tackling all this; $45 trillion, at least until we get a revised figure. But as impossibly stupid a number that sounds, it's amazing it accounts for 1% of the total world incomes, which means beyond any other hurdles, we can pick up the tab. Probably a moot point, as we may have no choice.

[ShrowdedPoet]

This is something I read on another forum.  I like it alot and I actually agree with most of it.

Which ever candidate first gives this
speech, will get my vote.

WOULDN\’T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV
AND HEAR ANY U.S. PRESIDENT, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN GIVE THE FOLLOWING
SPEECH?

My Fellow Americans: As you all know,

the defeat of the Iraq regime has been
completed.

Since congress does not want to spend
any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete.

This morning I gave the order for a
complete removal of all American forces from Iraq. This action will be
complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.

Before me, I have two lists. One list
contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the
Iraq conflict. This list is short . The United Kingdom , Spain ,
Bulgaria , Australia , and Poland are some of the countries listed
there.

The other list contains every one not on
the first list. Most of the world\’s nations are on that list. My press
secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.

Let me start by saying that effective
immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately
and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will
pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war. THEN EVERY YEAR THERE
AFTER GO TO OUR SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM SO IT WONT GO BROKE IN 20 YEARS.

The American people are no longer going
to pour money into third world Hellholes and watch those government
leaders grow fat on corruption.

Need help with a famine ?

Wrestling with an epidemic?

Call France

In the future, together with Congress, I
will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social
problems we still have at home .. On that note, a word to terrorist
organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you
and all your friends from the face of the earth.

Thirsting for a gutsy country to
terrorize?

Try France or maybe China

I am ordering the immediate severing of
diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia . Thanks for all
your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bonne chance,
mez amies.

I have instructed the Mayor of New York
City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in
Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets, to sites where
those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don\’t care
about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of
thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch your
prec ious Benzes, Beamers and limos be turned over to some of the finest
chop shops in the world. I love New York.

A special note to our neighbors. Canada
is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other,
you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.

Mexico is also on List 2; its president
and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I
will have a couple extra thousand tanks and infantry divisions sitting
around. Guess where I am going to put \’em? Yep, border security.

Oh, by the way, the United States is
abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now.

We are tired of the one-way highway.
Immediately, we\’ll be drilling for oil in Alaska - which will take care
of this country\’s oil needs for decades to come. If you\’re an
environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above:
pick a country and move there.

It is time for America to focus on its
own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I
answer them by saying, \’darn tootin.\’

Nearly a century of trying to help folks
live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying
enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate
hunger in America. It is time to eliminate homelessness in America . To
the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe you and
we won\’t forget.

To the nations on List 2, a final
thought:

You might want to learn to speak Arabic.

God bless America Thank you and good
night.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.

If you are reading it in English, thank
a soldier.

[The Overlord]

This is something I read on another forum.  I like it alot and I actually agree with most of it.

A couple of them actually made some sense, but the rest is some pretty serious rightwing and tobacco-spitting Marlboro Man drivel that's very poorly thought out and machismo driven. By and large I scoff at the American cowboy ideal...symbolizes a lot of trash talking, not too much critical thinking. IMO it's a big part of what's wrong with this country.

[ShrowdedPoet]

*smiles and nods*

[Zakharra]

 

This is something I read on another forum.  I like it alot and I actually agree with most of it.

There might be a few things that make some sense, but most of that is pure BS and the result of too much testosterone poisoning. Bad policy. I have heard much of the terms (almost rantings) on the Micheal Savage radio show. On the few times I tune into it.

[OldSchoolGamer]

This is something I read on another forum.  I like it alot and I actually agree with most of it.

Which ever candidate first gives this
speech, will get my vote.

Too much jingoism for me...especially in view of how recent events are showing rather conclusively that those who sat out the Iraq war were probably onto something after all.

[kongming]

This is something I read on another forum.  I like it alot and I actually agree with most of it.

I can think of no reason at all why an intelligent person would say what was said. Therefore, I feel that agreement with it is a huge mistake, and the only reason an intelligent person would agree with and like it is if they were in a shitty mood and needed someone else to blame - seeing as that message basically takes the approach of "everyone I don't like is responsible for all the problems in the world."

Because I want to believe you're an intelligent person (without knowing you in person), I'm going to assume you were just in a shitty mood.

Edited to be less offensive.

[The Overlord]

Too much jingoism for me...especially in view of how recent events are showing rather conclusively that those who sat out the Iraq war were probably onto something after all.

That's true enough, but it's more than that.

We are tired of the one-way highway.
Immediately, we\’ll be drilling for oil in Alaska - which will take care
of this country\’s oil needs for decades to come. If you\’re an
environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above:
pick a country and move there.'

.....


Mexico is also on List 2; its president
and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I
will have a couple extra thousand tanks and infantry divisions sitting
around. Guess where I am going to put \’em? Yep, border security.


I am ordering the immediate severing of
diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia . Thanks for all
your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bonne chance,
mez amies.


....


A special note to our neighbors. Canada
is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other,
you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.


...


To the nations on List 2, a final
thought:

You might want to learn to speak Arabic.

These in particular rub me badly, because something like it comes up with very tiring frequency on many forums I've visited. It's practically a hard right slogan and it stinks of hypocrisy. I don't want to derail this thread but I must speak up on this one. The right often accuses liberals of arrogance, of looking down our noses at them, and you know what? Sometimes we are, and this quote sums up why. I hear it a lot; get with 'our' program or get the fuck out of 'our' country. It's dirty filthy intolerance and every time I see it, I'd like find the would-be cowboy that said it, break his beer bottle over his head and show him the door.

Fuck you John Wayne, fuck you for not thinking past your next tank of gas, fuck you for not considering something much bigger than yourself, and fuck you moron for pushing one more species to the brink of extinction just so one more upright-walking ape can tank up his truck. What a marvelous legacy of misguided evolution you're leaving behind...oh wait, I forgot, you don't believe in Evolution.


And if you want to give to give an 'attitude adjustment' to every brown person in a nation that doesn't happen agree with us, go knock yourself out asshole. For everyone one of you, there's probably five brown people that want to give you an attitude adjustment. You might even be good enough to get one, two and three, but odds are better that four or five will get you.



Ok...rant off, I just had to get that off my chest.  >:(

[OldSchoolGamer]

What's really funny are the flag-wavers who think we've got a couple of Ghawars tucked neatly under the tundra of Alaska and the continental shelf of North America, and who apparently can't distinguish between oil shale and liquid crude.

Getting back to McCain, I just don't think he's ready for the America that's just around the corner.  The oil shortage and three decades of gross mismanagement of the treasury are about to hit us upside the head with a clue-by-four, and McCain is going to waste more time and resources trying to figure out who to bomb in retaliation, or who to invade.  The problem we're facing is technical and scientific.  It needs to be solved in the laboratory, not the battlefield.

[The Overlord]

Getting back to McCain, I just don't think he's ready for the America that's just around the corner. 

That's because he's still living around the last corner, smack-dab in the middle of the Cold War.

The problem we're facing is technical and scientific.  It needs to be solved in the laboratory, not the battlefield.

Word.

[Kathadon]

Honestly a major restructuring of alot of the last centuries institutions is around the corner. And John McCain has no clue how or any desire to get that ball rolling.

Detroit is going to have to retool drastically to compete with Japan's auto makers. Honestly they were living in a bubble themselves with the whole SUV craze. Of coarse they thought our "liberation" of Iraq was supposed to help the oil market. G.W. promised. *snorts* Now they are struggling and cutting shifts and closing SUV factories. Umm retool and start making them hybrids idiots. Or dust off that electric car you guys scraped before 2000. Oh no can't do that. Big Oil doesn't want to be out of the loop with the whole plug in car thing. Their whine of, "Think of all the gas stations. Oh won't someone think of the poor gas station owners." Please. The average middle class family might be able to buy a hybrid or electric car. Most gas station owners would still be relevant for at least five years. Not to mention they are suffering a slow death as it is now anyway with prices so high.

Our outdated fear of nuclear and disbelief in alternative energy sources has to go away. And the whole 'not in my backyard' argument is quickly becoming null and void. "Sorry you like your view, but we need to put a few dozen wind turbines/solar farm here so you can run your home entertainment center." ;)

If every building was mandated, and given a U.S. tax voucher like they plan to do with the stupid HDTV thing, to install solar panels on the roof we could start using our coal for gas. The latest silicon panels are twice as efficient as the last generation and the talk is thee next generation will be 10 times better. Oh but think of the utility companies....*blech*

Also the speculative aspect of the stock market needs to be regulated. Sure the Ted Turner and Bill Gates types are getting richer but the middle class is suffering now. A 10 dollar increase in the price of oil in one day because the Prime Minister of Israel said, "a war with Iran was inevitable"? Come on, give me a break.

A relic of the Cold War like John McCain with his hands off approach will cause us all alot of grief. Times like this call for leadership. Not business as usual, 'let the market decide' nonsense. The CONSUMERS have few choices because the market has stiffled all alternatives in the last two decades. A handful of CEO's and corporations with their hands in a number of industries and bank rolling so many of our politicians have caused all of the current problems.

[Sherona]

I would like to add that most gas stations don't make their profit from gas sales. In Oklahoma they are only allowed to mark up their gas 8 cents higher then what they themselves bought it for a gallon. Gas stations biggest money makers are the impulse buys that customers who stop for gas buy. Sodas, candy, the occasionally sky-high priced milk for those who just ran out but don't want to make a trip all the wya into town. So the "think of the poor gas stations" don't really work well as the only thing they will lose would be the attraction of the customers.

Nine times out of ten the customers dont really stop for soda and candy, they stop for gas and just buy that while they are there..but I am sure ingenious gas station owners will come up with more draws..(Lottery tickets anyone?) :)

[Kathadon]

Exactly Sherona. But Big Oil, Shell in particular, has made the death of the gas station supplie chain an argument for waiting for the hydrogen car to be ready. When we already have the electric car's design sitting in mothballs at GM.

If anyone has never watched the documentary of "Who Killed the Electric Car" I'd highly recommend it. It really shows just how close to oil independence we came in the 90's just to have Detroit and Big Oil kill the whole thing. In fact it will probably make you angry, I know it made me mad.

[Zakharra]

 I'm not sure the electric car is the panacea that some put it out to be. The size of batteries needed are large and over time, do degrade. They aren't cheap to replace either. Where a internal combustion engine can run for decades with decent maintinence. 

There's also the problem where are they coulg to get the electricity needed to recharge it? On hybrids, I understand the internal combustion engine can recharge it, but on a pure electric car? I know that I would not let anyone plug one of those things into a wall socket at my house for a recharge. I'm not goign to get stuck with the electricity bill that recharge would make.

  Which brings up the question of where would all of the electricity come from? A nation wide roll out of electric cars means much higher electrical demand. Especially in the summer months when demand is higher.

Hydrogen isn't an easy answer either. It takes a good amount of electricity to break water into oxygen and hydrogen. Plus, hydrogen isn't as efficent as gas is in an engine. You'd either need bigger tanks or make more stops. smaller engines will only go so far when you need a decent sized vehical to carry the family or a truck for work. Plus you can't move hydrogen in pipes. It has to be moved by tanker trucks/trains. Since it has a tendacy to absorb water. Making it more likely to rust and/or freeze in an engine of fuel line.

Like it or not, we need oil as the fuel of this ecnomy. It's out there if we just have the will to get it.

[Zakharra]

 Ok, that was more than slightly off topic, but I do not think any of the Presidential candidates has an answer. Certainly not a faux Republican like Mc Cain.

[Kathadon]

heh this topic went off abit ago, Zakharra, but is has been a good discussion anyway.

[Trieste]

I'm not sure what their sources are, but I read an article in MSN Money not long ago called "What if gas were $10 a gallon?" or something along those lines (too lazy to go dig it up, so y'all'll have to google it yourselves) that discussed varying solutions to our oil issue (specifically, what if it got to be too expensive for the average person to use as easily as they do now) and electric engines were brought up... I believe the numbers they gave on how many plug-in cars our power grid could handle were very optimistic, but I'm no power specialist. It was an interesting article, however MSN Money tends to write a lot of articles aimed at the comfortably-middle-class and it's not uncommon for me to stare at the words in an article and ask "How is someone like me going to pay for that?" Must be nice to have disposable income consistently. I'll get there someday. :P

And bullshit, they're thinking about the poor little lonesome convenience store owners. One of the biggest moneymakers for them (at least back when I worked in one) is cigarette sales. People go through 1, 2 packs a day and it's money they spend without a second thought unless they're thinking of quitting. Most people are hooked for life. Recent tax hikes on cigs have made them difficult to afford, and higher profit doesn't even go to the sellers in exchange for the slow-down in sales. If they pass the two-dollar-and-change per pack increase here (all taxes), even I will have to quit, and I love smoking. Don't want to quit. Know I should. Could save some money if I would. But I don't wanna ... so in light of that and Sherona's statement, the 'poor little convenience store owners' argument doesn't fly with me.

Gawd, they drive me crazy.

[Sherona]

I'm not sure what their sources are, but I read an article in MSN Money not long ago called "What if gas were $10 a gallon?" or something along those lines (too lazy to go dig it up, so y'all'll have to google it yourselves) that discussed varying solutions to our oil issue (specifically, what if it got to be too expensive for the average person to use as easily as they do now) and electric engines were brought up... I believe the numbers they gave on how many plug-in cars our power grid could handle were very optimistic, but I'm no power specialist. It was an interesting article, however MSN Money tends to write a lot of articles aimed at the comfortably-middle-class and it's not uncommon for me to stare at the words in an article and ask "How is someone like me going to pay for that?" Must be nice to have disposable income consistently. I'll get there someday. :P

And bullshit, they're thinking about the poor little lonesome convenience store owners. One of the biggest moneymakers for them (at least back when I worked in one) is cigarette sales. People go through 1, 2 packs a day and it's money they spend without a second thought unless they're thinking of quitting. Most people are hooked for life. Recent tax hikes on cigs have made them difficult to afford, and higher profit doesn't even go to the sellers in exchange for the slow-down in sales. If they pass the two-dollar-and-change per pack increase here (all taxes), even I will have to quit, and I love smoking. Don't want to quit. Know I should. Could save some money if I would. But I don't wanna ... so in light of that and Sherona's statement, the 'poor little convenience store owners' argument doesn't fly with me.

Gawd, they drive me crazy.

Whats said is I completely forgot abuot ciggerette sales...of course I live in Oklahoma where Indian Smoke Shops do not charge a state tax on ciggerettes due to them being on Native American land..so ciggerettes are extremely cheaper there then they are in convience stores. The brand I smoked while Not pregnant costs 18$ a carton while at walmart they are 22$ a carton...and since a carton lasts me 2 weeks (I smoked less then a pack a day) i really didnt spend a lot on them, which is probably why I forgot about them. But yes they are definitely most places biggest sellers.

[ShrowdedPoet]

In my own defense I thought it was funny and thought that people would get a laugh out of it too and I'm a slight isolationist so I would love that we didn't go around trying to liberate the whole world.  I'm sorry it offended people.  I just thought it was funny.  Carry on.

[Kathadon]

Honestly it is funny Poet and I am sure everyone here feels those sentiments once in awhile. Even those from other countries, who wish the U.S. would butt out of policing the world, probably wish we'd say that once in awhile. Not acting on them though is what makes a good leader, but the U.S. couldn't do that even if we were the nation of cowboys that the world thinks we are. ;D

Sadly enough we are to important a player on the world stage, to just take our ball and go home. :P

[Trieste]

I have to admit, there are times when I want to just vent my rage by going to the White House and writing on the lawn in 100-foot burning letters of DOOM "Take care of your own before everyone else!"

Whoever it is that's next in office, I hope to god they have a better domestic policy than "Roll with the punches, y'all ... and, uh, build your levees higher..."

Blech.

[Kathadon]

I could so hear those words coming outa G.W.'s mouth. Anyone else noticing he is doing a world tour all of the sudden just like his daddy did in '92?

Do you think his being out of the country will help McCain?

[kongming]

Well, "Being an Isolationist" is different from merely being sick of dealing with other countries' problems, and both of those are different from what that message was saying. That message was "Fuck the rest of you. We're doing what we want, when we want, and we'll bomb anyone who disagrees with us. Also, we should bomb our neighbours and take them over, because they'd want to do the same to us, but we're bigger. Besides, I don't like them there foreign coloured folk."

The people with that attitude should instead just take a page of "regular isolationist", or better yet, become proper isolationists and, well, isolate themselves from everyone else. As individual people, not as a collective nation. Preferably somewhere where no-one else will accidentally come across them, such as the middle of the desert or the polar ice caps. Definitely away from civilisation. After all, we wouldn't want them to have to deal with the existence of other people now.

[Chris Brady]

Honestly it is funny Poet and I am sure everyone here feels those sentiments once in awhile. Even those from other countries, who wish the U.S. would butt out of policing the world, probably wish we'd say that once in awhile. Not acting on them though is what makes a good leader, but the U.S. couldn't do that even if we were the nation of cowboys that the world thinks we are. ;D

Sadly enough we are to important a player on the world stage, to just take our ball and go home. :P

The problem with you Americans is that you're caught in a Catch-22.  Since world war 2 you have been seen on the international stage as a 'mover and shaker'.  You set up the UN, NATO and several other organizations that support the world as we know it.

Assume that some country is being attack by a neighbour.

If you do something, you're seen as the villain for interfering.

If you do nothing, you're seen as a villain for not helping your fellow man.

No one cares for the real reason which is securing resources for themselves.  Which by the way, the rest of the world is doing too.  Just not as loudly.  After all the rest of the world doesn't allow an organization like CNN to exist.

And now for the token Canucklehead's view:

As for Cowboy with the putting Canada on list '2', I'd like to point out, as a Canadian Citizen, that we too are putting pressure on our politicians to bring OUR boys back home.  'Boys' we sent at YOUR government's prompting, Mr, Cowboy.

A lot of us Canadians are kind of resentful that everything you Americans do, the local politicians feel the need to copy or somehow support our neighbours across the border.  And then you try and screw us with the Soft Lumber crap and fishing.  And for the record, Canadians have been opposed to Free Trade across the borders because WE got the shaft because of our weaker dollar at the time.

So, Mr. Cowboy get the bottle out of our ass, and look at the REST of the world, just not your back yard.  After all, the NEXT time you have a 9/11 or Katrina level disaster, pissing US off means no help with disaster relief from us.

My little Rant is over.

Fun Factoid for those of you who actually think the U.S. has issues at home.  Did you know that the UN has listed Canada as one of the worst places to live if your poor?  We aren't quite at the bottom, but we're definitely NOT a nice place to live without money.  We're to busy throwing our money into peacekeeping missions and disaster relief than actually focusing on issues at home.

[The Overlord]

I have to admit, there are times when I want to just vent my rage by going to the White House and writing on the lawn in 100-foot burning letters of DOOM "Take care of your own before everyone else!"

I'm sure that's fairly deep into the current definition of terrorism, but for the record I feel you here.

[Trieste]

I'm sure that's fairly deep into the current definition of terrorism, but for the record I feel you here.

I guess I better watch for phone taps and make sure all my cash is secure. :P

[OldSchoolGamer]

Oh, I think current events are going to light a fire under the asses of politicians to take care of America first.

Judging from what I'm seeing so far, the trigger is going to be when oil passes $150 a barrel, maybe $165 at the highest.  That's going to be the death of the American Way.  That's going to be the turning point, beyond which people realize just what a clusterfuck the Iraq situation is.  When gas gets to $5.50 a gallon or so, the suburbs are going to die, slowly and painfully.  They're already getting a bit yellow around the edges...or, maybe a sickly shade of green from all the algae growing in the untended pools of those foreclosed homes.

There are millions of borrowers out there who, out of a desire to keep their homes and credit ratings, or servile devotion to capitalism and "doing the right thing," have so far sucked it in and kept paying their mortgages even as cold cuts were replaced by Spam and the vacation on the coast turned to an afternoon at the local river bottoms.  But once you add an extra $200 a month in fuel costs, that won't be an option.  There's only so much "fat" a family can trim from its budget, and with the standard of living in America already in decline before peak oil, most families were rather lean already.  So the foreclosure crisis isn't nearly over.  It hasn't even peaked.  It's just begun.

In the end, John McCain is toast, unless a miracle occurs.  And when I say "miracle," I mean aliens landing huge "V"-type spaceships, only instead of wanting to suck our water, they want to sell us a few million barrels per day of light sweet crude in exchange for securitized mortgages and chicken processing plant waste.  Barring that, Bush is looking to go out as less popular than Jimmy Carter.  Perhaps if he'd made a concerted effort starting last summer, McCain could have uncoupled himself from the Bush legacy.  But in re-affirming support for the Iraq fiasco, McCain missed the last lifeboat off that sinking ship. 

[Zakharra]

 Oil has not peaked. Where does that rumor keep getting started? There are hundreds of billions of barrels out there still.

[Vekseid]

Oil has not peaked. Where does that rumor keep getting started? There are hundreds of billions of barrels out there still.

Peak oil refers to production rates, specifically conventional oil, not how much 'is left'. Year on year world production declined by .2% from 2006 to 2007, and proven reserves have not increased. Regardless, however, supply is now chasing demand, no matter what anyone claims.

[Zakharra]

 Aahh.. I've always been told it's how much oil there is in the ground.

[Nephili]

On a similar note:

Disclaimer: I don't think that the republicans would really nominate or vote for Voldemort, even if he does remind me of Dick Cheney

Make it Nuclear!

The first fusion power plant isn't expected to go on-line until 2050, and IFMIF and ITER aren't even properly running yet. Unfortunately for perhaps a lot of the world, the US, Russia, Canada and Australia have few concerns about coal shortages. Economics will force nuclear power back onto the stage, and some previously anti-nuke types are finally seeing the light.

Coal liquefaction and shale will probably help, at least the United States, though the final answer is probably going to be algaculture.

In my opinion, the future of nuclear isn't more reactors like we have now... or even fusion. It's micro reactors like this one here. The smaller size makes it safer, it has the potential to be cheaper then current energy solutions, and perhaps best of all... it's a long ways in the future, but eventually, combined with other tech, it could help to de-centralize our nations power grid.  Having a few big power plants serving large areas has significant downsides... transmitting electricity over long distances means a lot of power is lost just on the transmission... and anyone remember when half the east coast had a blackout a few years ago? If every town generated it's own power, something like that would be virtually impossible. In fact, theres a remote town in Alaska that's already in the planning stages of installing on of these!

This is something I read on another forum.  I like it alot and I actually agree with most of it.

Which ever candidate first gives this
speech, will get my vote.

I don't have anything to much to say in response that hasn't already been said better then I could, so I'll just keep it short: No... please... I know it's an ultimatum that's been much overused in the last few years... but if a candidate who made this speech was ever elected... I would seriously consider moving overseas.

I'm not sure the electric car is the panacea that some put it out to be. The size of batteries needed are large and over time, do degrade. They aren't cheap to replace either. Where a internal combustion engine can run for decades with decent maintinence. 

There's also the problem where are they coulg to get the electricity needed to recharge it? On hybrids, I understand the internal combustion engine can recharge it, but on a pure electric car? I know that I would not let anyone plug one of those things into a wall socket at my house for a recharge. I'm not goign to get stuck with the electricity bill that recharge would make.

  Which brings up the question of where would all of the electricity come from? A nation wide roll out of electric cars means much higher electrical demand. Especially in the summer months when demand is higher.

Hydrogen isn't an easy answer either. It takes a good amount of electricity to break water into oxygen and hydrogen. Plus, hydrogen isn't as efficent as gas is in an engine. You'd either need bigger tanks or make more stops. smaller engines will only go so far when you need a decent sized vehical to carry the family or a truck for work. Plus you can't move hydrogen in pipes. It has to be moved by tanker trucks/trains. Since it has a tendacy to absorb water. Making it more likely to rust and/or freeze in an engine of fuel line.

Like it or not, we need oil as the fuel of this ecnomy. It's out there if we just have the will to get it.

I strongly disagree with all of this... we don't need the will to get oil, we need the will to get OFF of oil. Global warming IS a serious problem, no matter how much people try to deny it... and I challenge anyone here to say it's "too expensive" to change, or it's "not that big a problem" after reading this, this, or this...  I can just see the conversation at the UN... Country A: "It's not economically feasible for my country to reduce emissions by that much." Tiny Country B: "Well, it's even less economically feasible for my country to be swallowed up by the rising sees, so figure something out!" We have the potential to create a country that dosn't burn an ounce of oil, THATS what we need the will for. Seriously, besides nuclear, theres wind (admittedly not a complete solution, but definatly something that could make a significant contribution), [img=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_power]http://tidal power[/img] (Beginning to show some real potential, and unlike wind and solar, it's fairly reliable... it's not like the tides are going to stop coming anytime soon), even solar (These new flexible solar panels are much, much cheaper then previous solar technology, and able to be applied to almost any surface... the only problem is, the company is still small... they're sold out for the next 12 months! Just think, if we would invest in this rather then the war... Every new house in the US with a solar roof, generating a sizable portion of it's electricity... every new electric car with these on the roof... with the cost these things are at already, it's possible, and they can still go a lot lower if they can truly mass produce them... this has the potential to be huge.)


Anyway, now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'll say SOMETHING thats on topic... Honestly, if John McCain was the same politician he was a couple years ago, I'd seriously consider voting for him... I didn't agree with everything he said, but I could at least respect him for being honest about his views, even when they conflicted with the leadership of his party. Now, though, he's going back on so much of what he used to say, just to appease the party base it seems, and it's honestly really disappointing. :/

[RubySlippers]

I actually agree with McCain on using natural economic forces not government mandates to deal with Global Warming IF its a problem at all. But that would be another topic.

I must point out increasing oil prices are naturally adjusting peoples habits in the United States. They are surrendering big gas guzzling cars, using mass transportation more, changing their driving habits and doing other things to lower costs. In fact if one looks at other energy use as costs make alternatives practical then people will use them take Solar right now the massive cost of $25000 to put in a system is not cost effective I'm sure when the costs get to $5000 or less then many people will add them.

I must note about electric cars there are no Green Technologies that are truly renewable and have no impact are very few and all those either use no modern technology to use ,aka Amish wind driven water pumps, or are none technological that is passive sunlight hitting the surface of the planet. So I would argue an electric car since even with a battery and electrical charging is cleaner than gasoline power for cars. And there is no other technology to power cars that is better right now.

As for Kyoto and other international agreements we should not sign any such treaties, we should try and be good neighbors but I will prefer to let the free market take advantage of new markets to create cleaner technologies over time.

[Darthvegeta800]

I take it i'll be shot for preferring Mc Cain? *looks around wearily*
I don't really like any of the three candidates. Or two atm.
Over here in Europe the media all went 'oooooh' just because one was a woman and the other was colored. As if political correctness is a basis to judge a good leader.
Though in all honesty few American Presidents truly thrilled me. There have been those i liked or appreciated but with the exception of Reagan none that truly stunned me in a positive way.
On the other hand, the EU countries haven't had a lot of good leaders either. Technocrats, Eurocrats, lawyers and others locked in an Ivory Tower.

It is the nature of a Democratic system to work with ups and down and currently the West seems to be really going down politically. Weak leaders, heavy division in a lot of matters and a population in Europe (and i'm betting it's the same in the US) that is becoming apolitical.

On the positive side. At least in the US some things still get down. For over a year my country has become locked.
Flemmish (Dutchspeaking Northern part) versus Walloons (Frenchspeaking Southern part of belgium) as the Walloons want to take territory and break a few more linguistic laws... and of course get more money. Now that the Flemmish actually are making a demand for the first time since 1830 the 'democratic' system stopped working. And the EU isn't helping either.
Economically the country is stuck too as the liberals and socialists wants to eat each other alive yet the Walloon socialists and the Liberals of both sides of the country are in the same goverment.
The Flemmish Catholics and the Flemmish Liberals stand against each other radically on moral matters yet are in the same goverment. The Walloons and the Flemmish Liberals stand against the Radical Right and the Flemmish Catholics when it comes to immigration.
And the same goes for the oilcrisis, the raising foodprices, the fact shooting madmen get set free the next day etc.
And then there us seperatists versus the belgicists.
And our country currently is militarily at a complete dead end too. With ineffective cannons and 4 bullets/soldier.
Overal poverty is rising drastically, which is something relatively new here. 1/6 families being poor is strange for Belgium.
Yet we flush billions of euros into Congo who actually kicked out our diplomats and closed embassies.
Completely stuck in every way. And i probably forgot a funny bit or 20 too.

So... look on the bright side... could be worse still ^^;

[The Overlord]

It's not feasable(sp) for mass distribution. For that to power a car, equal to the current types of internal combustion engines, with the same fuel range, is beyond such right now. 

Just as a further note here-


http://green.yahoo.com/news/ap/20080616/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_honda.html


Yes, it still needs to be taken mainstream so the everyday owner can have one, but-

"It's so smooth," said Harris, who played villainness Marie Warner on the hit TV show "24" and was flown over by Honda for the ceremony. "It's like a future machine, but it's not."

That's the point, the future has arrived in many respects. All that stuff they used to make in the 1950's about the 'world of tomorrow'...much of it has come to pass, or will come to pass. By some estimates I've seen, we're at or just about to hit the knee of the curve on the technology chart. If you think the 20th Century was the shit, you ain't seen nothing yet. Score one more for the space program, this is one more way it will change your life.

[Darwishi]

So, I got tired of reading stuff somewhere down this page.  At any rate, all everyone is talking about are Obama and McCain.

You want change?  Think about looking into Ron Paul.  He's not backed by lobbiests.  Which is probably why most of you haven't heard of him.  But then again, he doesn't have anyone to pay back if he gets into office.  Want to write someone in? Write in Ron Paul.

Also, I'm not going to comment on his beliefs or anything here.  What I say will be entirely too biased for that, so go to his site, go to other sites that oppose him, and do some nice hard research.

If you don't vote for who or what you believe in...then why are you voting?

[RubySlippers]

I'm voting for BARR, I just can't vote for McCain or Obama it would sully my honor as a citizen to give either of them the pleasure of my sacred vote. So I will vote for the Libertarian Party.

[Darwishi]

I'd like to point out that Ron Paul is a libertarian running under the Republican flag.  Or most of his beliefs are very libertarian.  And again he's not backed by any lobbyists... 

It occurs to me that I also forgot to give a website to go to.  www.ronpaul.com