3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check

[HairyHeretic]

So, kickstarter update from a day or two ago said that the draft rules were coming close to an approval stage, and we could have a preliminary pdf available sometime soon (TM). Not sure when the official release would be, but is anyone else likely to be getting their hands on the kickstarter goodies and interested in trying out the new rules once available?

[AndyZ]

*sets up a lawn chair and waits.*

[Jefepato]

I'll believe "sometime soon" when I see it at this point, but if the rules do show up, yes I'm interested.

[Lockepick]

I'll believe "sometime soon" when I see it at this point, but if the rules do show up, yes I'm interested.

What he said. I'm super eager to try out 3e -- but 'sometime soon' has already been a while now.

So theoretically, if there was a rules leak, does Elliquiy have any rules if we talk and share that? Theoretically, I mean. Not to say that a text-only edition of the book was already leaked and I have a copy.

[HairyHeretic]

I think that even leaked rules would fall under Rule 5 : This server is governed by the laws of the United States. You will not link to or provide warez, illegal pdfs or mp3s, and so on.

As much as the Exalted fan in me would enjoy that, better not to.

[Lockepick]

Ah, yes. Good thing we're talking about a hypothetical then.

Anyway: generally interested! Just not holding my breath for 3e to actually get released.

[Muse]

*sets out a picknick blanket and passes around cans of tea* 

Waiting party.  :)

[RSGAlex]

I think I speak for everyone when I adapt the immortal words of Quiet Riot "Mama Weer All Weighting Now."

[TFcommando]

I'm a backer and eager to try it out.  Something pirate-y out West, or with airships!

The latest OP notes say they're making corrections requested by CCP, and approval from them was the last thing needed before the backer PDFs go out, so despite having been burned for so long, maybe it really is about to come out!

[HairyHeretic]

Even if we get a preliminary 'working' copy, I'd be happy enough with that. As long as all the rules are there.

Generally I like the Scavanger Lands and Nexus .. nicely central and allows for a variety of adventures to spin off from it. I've played a little in the South and East, never gone to the West.

[TFcommando]

That reminded me of something... they added an inland sea in the east/scavenger lands so one can have seafaring adventures in places besides the West (without having to worry about the Realm fleet being close by).  This is the new Creation map:

[AndyZ]

Thank you for sharing ^_^

[ChaoticSky]

Id be interested as all hello~ ;D

Been waiting for 3e forever.

[Vekseid]

Still planning on running this as I originally promised, myself. Assuming interest remains. >_>

[ChaoticSky]

I think thats a safe bet Vek  ;D

[Pockets]

I think that would be a definite understatement. Considering I myself am interested.

[Muse]

  I know I still am, Veks! 

[TFcommando]

I'm provisionally interested too, depending on region, type of game, etc.

[Black Howling]

*Places his camping gear out as well*

Very interested.

[Datawych]

I've actually never played (and anyone who knows me knows that I'm suspicious of group games, especially big ones), but I'm starting to think I'll never find people who ever want to play Scion, and I've heard they're pretty similar.

So.... Possibly interested. I'll have to look into it more, but as it sounds like the new version isn't done, not sure how I'd do that, exactly... :/

[HairyHeretic]

Exalted and Scion would have a fairly similar feel to them, so if you like Scion, you'd probably enjoy Exalted as well.

I imagine once the 3rd ed PDFs are ready, they'll be going up on the likes of DrivethruRPG fairly soon after the backers would get their copies.

[ChaoticSky]

*Nod* Exalted is basically Scion in schizotech fantasyland, except instead of being a gods kid, you have a bit of their Awesome stuffed into a soul-supercharger that latched onto your soul.

[RSGAlex]

And remember, Scion runs on a worse version of Exalted 2e's system.

[TFcommando]

The rules are so wonky and unbalanced that the scion on Thor can do more damage throwing his magic handgun at people than shooting them with it.

I get the impression that Scion started as a home-brew game at White Wolf that they liked so much they published.  The stripped-down Exalted rules might work if it was just one group of friends with shared assumptions running them, and it'd explain the intense focus on the signature characters, each one getting a 50 page text piece, all of them appearing in the illustrations, plus the lack of any background as to what the Earth is like with scions and titan born running around doing things. 

The concept is a strong, compelling one which is why there's so much interest and affection towards it.  I know I'd love to play in a game of it, but with the thin background and bad rules, you could just make up your own and use a superhero system to play it.

[ChaoticSky]

The rules are so wonky and unbalanced that the scion on Thor can do more damage throwing his magic handgun at people than shooting them with it.

I get the impression that Scion started as a home-brew game at White Wolf that they liked so much they published.  The stripped-down Exalted rules might work if it was just one group of friends with shared assumptions running them, and it'd explain the intense focus on the signature characters, each one getting a 50 page text piece, all of them appearing in the illustrations, plus the lack of any background as to what the Earth is like with scions and titan born running around doing things. 

The concept is a strong, compelling one which is why there's so much interest and affection towards it.  I know I'd love to play in a game of it, but with the thin background and bad rules, you could just make up your own and use a superhero system to play it.

Well, that first one is actually a pretty easy fix, almost every Scion game i ever played keyed firearm damage off of Per, that way it scales like melee and benefits from Epic stats. I dont recall any particular issue over the effectiveness of guns after that.

As for the world? Its implied to be our world, modern day, normal joe and jane working 9-5 in offices, etc. Just, like in Nwod, and Dresden Files, there is a masquerade in place that keeps the world widely ignorant of the goings on. The Gods (and their progeny) fear the effects of Fate, and Fate has a way of latching onto mortals who witness your awesomeness, which at the very last will complicate a scions life immensely if they are too open about what they are. To say nothing of attracting titanspawn like flies. Etc

Also of interesting note, i may be wrong here, but i swear i read that as part of their licensing agreement, Onyx Path bought Scion, CCP licensed out the production of Exalted, Wod, etc, but they sold Scion to OP outright. Which makes it their game now, so im curious how much they are going to do with it... if they can make a huge success out of it, they could make more money with it than they will with Exalted.

[HairyHeretic]

I don't find Scion all that bad. I've run plenty of games of it, and while it does need some rules tweaks in places, there's nothing a decent GM can't work around. I played a tabletop campaign from start up to Legend 8 demigods, and we ran into very few problems.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with Scion 2.0 :)

[Crash]

Yeah so am I but then again I am still waiting on Exalted and was not part of the Kickstarter. :(

[Winter King]

I think I may also do something related to this - Ideally playing, but I am also considering running something, but need victims players, so you guys have another ST when the rules eventually come out.

[Plot Hooks]

Oh man...

I've been running this with my meat-space crew for about 4 sessions between my CPA exams.    It is such a blast to run as a GM.

I'll also probably try and con Kyrsa into resuming our Exalted solo.   I've been a bad boy on that front.   >_>

[HairyHeretic]

More GMs are always going to be good :)

[HairyHeretic]

Backer PDFs are out :)

If you'll excuse me, I haz reading to do.

[AndyZ]

Got mine ^_^

[Crash]

Backer PDFs are out :)

If you'll excuse me, I haz reading to do.

I wish I had gotten into that Kickstarter. :(

[Jefepato]

PDF obtained.  It's reading time.

[RSGAlex]

It's time for me to see if I still have that spreadsheet, and what I need to update. Or contact one of the ... two people I shared it with and update that.

[Revelation]

Should this group still be  looking for others i'd be interested in giving it a crack.

[HairyHeretic]

I think we'll need a little time to digest the new rules before we start working on game ideas. I'd like to try a fight or two under the new rules to see how that works first. That does seem to be one of the larger changes.

[Winter King]

I think we'll need a little time to digest the new rules before we start working on game ideas. I'd like to try a fight or two under the new rules to see how that works first. That does seem to be one of the larger changes.

Yeah, I'd like to get maybe a week or so to really sink my mind into the content before trying to jump into things. That said, a lot of the stuff will simply be me learning to do it for the first time, since my previous experiences with Exalted were almost entirely absent combat and I am never a mechanically inclined sort of person to begin with.

[Thufir Hawat]

The Ex3 rules are relatively straightforward, actually, except for the amazingly stupid names. Well, and the amazingly ugly art. First time I see a non-free PDF where I have to actively disregard the art, because man, is that ugly >:)!
Back to combat, if they had named "withering attacks" as "beats" or simply "preparation actions", it would have been much easier to digest, and mostly make sense.

I don't find Scion all that bad. I've run plenty of games of it, and while it does need some rules tweaks in places, there's nothing a decent GM can't work around. I played a tabletop campaign from start up to Legend 8 demigods, and we ran into very few problems.

Then you're either a much better GM than me, much less mechanically inclined, had amazing luck with your players, or a combination of those.
I'm going to hope you're simply a much better GM than me, because that would be the best for any game we play :P!

[Revelation]

Yeah seriously, at least one artwork blatantly plagarizes other art pieces, and there is a lot of poser art that looks like they got some unpaid interns to do it. I didn't pay for an expanded art budget if it meant they just used poser.

[HairyHeretic]

Then you're either a much better GM than me, much less mechanically inclined, had amazing luck with your players, or a combination of those.
I'm going to hope you're simply a much better GM than me, because that would be the best for any game we play :P!

*chuckles* Might be a bit of each. The group I was playing with, we'd all been playing together for years, over a dozen different games, so we're pretty used to each other's ways by then, and rotated amongst 3 GMs, so we all got to play. We ran a sort of episodic format, ranging from a couple of sessions to a couple of months per story.

[Winter King]

Bouncing between devising a setting in the Scavenger Lands to torment give for those who would play with me and actually reading rules. They seem so much less difficult to read through than 2e. I am happy.  :D

[HairyHeretic]

Scavanger Lands is always a good place to start I reckon :)

[Winter King]

Scavanger Lands is always a good place to start I reckon :)

They do have a certain charm to them, though I am kind of sad that I won't get to play out the Realm's way of stomping on satrapies... at least, not initially. That said, anyone who wants to make a kingdom might be able to with much more ease than you'd expect anywhere else.

[HairyHeretic]

I dunno, I kinda always wanted to rule Lookshy myself ;)

[Jefepato]

Is anyone else's PDF messed up?  My text is...flawed.

[Revelation]

There's quite a bit of typo and typography errors, plus some text outright missing or being hidden under images. We'll be getting the fully finished copy later. This is just the beta to the release, so to speak. 95% finished aside from bugs and fine tuning.

[RSGAlex]

It is, however, good enough to work with. I already got an idea for a sorcerer/snake stylist cheat, gambler, and general person of ill repute.

[Rook Seidhr]

This wasn't supposed to be "the beta to the release." This was supposed to be everything but the final cover, and if there were any errors they were supposed to be so small that they'd only be caught by having thousands of people looking.

Also, the quality of the art (plagiarism issues aside) is depressing. There's good stuff, but it's the laughably awful stuff that stands out.

How long have we been waiting? This is the best they could do? I want my money back, or at least I want to downgrade to PDF-only.

[Winter King]

I dunno, I kinda always wanted to rule Lookshy myself ;)

That's in the Scavenger Lands, surely. :P

[Revelation]

As far as I know, the initial backer release has been planned to have been looked through by the backers and have errors submitted to the team to fix for the final release/hardcover release. I'm not defending any issues that result from it, but as far as I know that's been their intent.

[AndyZ]

The most recent e-mail asks people to e-mail in if there are any mistakes.

Granted, I've seen quite a few, but I think the idea was to ask the community to help by pointing them out, while simultaneously giving us something that's at least workable to start playing.

[Rook Seidhr]

As far as I know, the initial backer release has been planned to have been looked through by the backers and have errors submitted to the team to fix for the final release/hardcover release.

That's absolutely correct! But there's no excuse for sending out a version that has errors this big in it. Did no one look at the PDF before hitting "send"?

That was a rhetorical question. The KS update made it clear that, indeed, no one looked at the PDF before hitting "send." They assumed the chapter files would merge into one PDF smoothly. Because, you know, nothing could go wrong at that stage.

[AndyZ]

Speaking only for myself, even though they obviously need time to fix everything, I'm glad to have a working copy to let me start playing.

[Rook Seidhr]

Speaking only for myself, even though they obviously need time to fix everything, I'm glad to have a working copy to let me start playing.

I would have said that last year. Maybe even six months ago. At this point? After so long in "final" layout? No.

[Revelation]

Trust me, I have more than my share of issues as well. The fact that they couldn't be assed to do bookmarks - but reliable bookmarks came from fans on day 1 of the backer release does speak heavily as to how much effort I feel they put in the final polish so far. The game is playable - moreso than playable (especially compared to 2e). But, I do think they could have done better on this release. I also think the 'organic layout' process resulted in something that looks sloppy.

Still, I can stop lamenting to my gaming groups that I spent on money on this, 2 and a half years later! I must admit if I do get into a game here, being a dawn with Volcano Cutter, because I want to be Sol Badguy evocations are pretty rad.

[Rook Seidhr]

My attitude may be influenced by my GM style. I'm not going to get any use out of the thing as a GM until most if not all of the major splats are out. So…another two years? Three? Unless someone else is running a game for me—and I'm going through a non-pbp phase again, so it would have to be real-time—why even bother reading it?

I can't remember why I backed it in the first place. Dumb of me. I should have just left it and gotten the PDF later.

[Empyrean]

Expressing interest in this.

[Vekseid]

Is anyone else's PDF messed up?  My text is...flawed.

What viewer are you using? I'm not having any layout problems in the latest Sumatra.

[Lockepick]

Should we create some sort of data base of people looking to GM a game versus people that are going to play in it? I'm happy to compile the data -- then I could have it off to Hairy to put in the opening post.

Might be redundant with the thread, but who knows what has changed since this thread started. Do we think a more direct list would be helpful?

[AndyZ]

Definitely want to play.

I'm thinking about running, but I'm very low on ideas and creativity, and the last game I tried to run just crashed.

[Revelation]

I think a 'database' would be good sense. I also don't think this would be the most appropriate thread to really lambast/critique the book itself. Not that such a discussion wouldn't be bad or anything, just doesn't quite feel on topic to go at length on any problems the book has, is all.

I'd love to play, but I imagine that's going to be 99% of what people wanna do anyway, heh.

[HairyHeretic]

I haven't had a proper chance to sit down with the rules yet, but I think once people start getting a proper read through, you'll see a game threads going up. I have an idea or two, but they're still fairly open. I like the idea of doing a Return of the Scarlett Empress campaign, but I think we'd want more than starter level characters for that :)

I also wouldn't be averse to using our Mumble server for a game, depending on peoples availability.

[Lockepick]

If we think a database would be helpful: I'll start keeping track of posts made from here on.

I'd ask people specify if they intend to run or play! I'll create a list that I can update.

[Jefepato]

What viewer are you using? I'm not having any layout problems in the latest Sumatra.

Whatever version of Adobe Reader is current?

Some of the Charms are randomly garbage.

[Thufir Hawat]

First things first! If anyone is starting an Ex3 game and want a Zenith, or any other Caste for a Perfect Circle, let me know!

Whatever version of Adobe Reader is current?

Some of the Charms are randomly garbage.

Forget Adobe, FoxIt, Sumatra, Qu and Mu PDF are basically better. I've tried them on different devices.

Also, which Charms are those? I'm trying to compile a list.

*chuckles* Might be a bit of each. The group I was playing with, we'd all been playing together for years, over a dozen different games, so we're pretty used to each other's ways by then, and rotated amongst 3 GMs, so we all got to play. We ran a sort of episodic format, ranging from a couple of sessions to a couple of months per story.

I've got a group I've been playing for years, too :P.
Exactly because we've been playing for years, I know some of them would go for shiny gifts from the gods, while others go for hyper-attributes. Which, as you know, is a break point if you want any sort of group cohesion.

Also, don't dash my hopes! You have to be that much better at GMing, I say ;D!

This wasn't supposed to be "the beta to the release." This was supposed to be everything but the final cover, and if there were any errors they were supposed to be so small that they'd only be caught by having thousands of people looking.

Also, the quality of the art (plagiarism issues aside) is depressing. There's good stuff, but it's the laughably awful stuff that stands out.

How long have we been waiting? This is the best they could do? I want my money back, or at least I want to downgrade to PDF-only.

My inner cynic whispered to me to go for PDF-only years ago, but for people like you, I hope Onyx Path would change at least most of the downright ugly pictures >:).



Also, there's at least one good news: the thing doesn't have a "how to create a campaign" section. Given how bad White Wolf advice on GMing has been, historically, I sincerely applaud that decision!

[ChaoticSky]

Woo. Finally. o.o

That said, can we go somewhere other than the Scavenger Lands? I mean.. out of all of Creation, its the most hum drum boring generic fantasy place.  99% of all 2e games were in the Scav lands and it wasn't interesting to begin with. North, South, West, East(far).... anywhere else. Please.  o_o

[Thufir Hawat]

Well, I'd be fine with pretty much anywhere, if we can bring characters from another place. Exalted don't tend to sit in one place for long, anyway.
Of course, that means I'm fine with the Scavenger Lands, too.

[Empyrean]

I kind of like the Scavenger Lands and their whole theme of plucky defiance against the Realm. I can do other areas though.

[Revelation]

I don't mind the scavenger lands so much, but there are a lot of neat places in Creation. Whitewall and Gethamane up north, An-Teng for a unique city, Gem for the deep south, Cinder Isles & the Caul, and the coral archipelago for the west (piracy!), Chiarascuro too.

[HairyHeretic]

I think we have a fair number of Exalted fans here, both those who want to (or at least are willing to) GM, as well as those who want to play.

What do people think about the idea of a 'Living' Exalted campaign? Characters could carry over from one game to another, xp, items and history is kept (pending individual GM approval, if it might conflict with their own story plot). If a game finished up, or even an individual had to drop for whatever reason, they could then take the character on to another game later.

Thoughts?

[Jefepato]

Also, which Charms are those? I'm trying to compile a list.

The list would be way too long to type out.  Not a majority, but still.

[Winter King]

I am planning to ST, probably. I mean, I am probably doing something in the Scavenger Lands, but I might be persuaded to move it elsewhere. I have a few ideas for a variety of places that seem interesting, especially the prison-city in the North and the Pure Way satrapy.

[Thufir Hawat]

Living campaign would be nice,but how do you coordinate changes in the setting achieved by PCs of another group? It could work if the GMs were exchanging information on those, too, in which case, starting all the games in the same subforum might be almost required.

The list would be way too long to type out.  Not a majority, but still.

OK, what are the three main reasons for crappititde, then?

[Jefepato]

OK, what are the three main reasons for crappititde, then?

Three?  Why three?

There is one reason.  It is unreadable.  To speak of examples, most of page 255 cannot be read.  I could give more examples but I don't see the point.

I don't mean difficult to read.  I mean absolutely impossible because it is just scattered letters.  Surely I'm not the only person with issues?  I downloaded it twice to be sure.

[HairyHeretic]

Living campaign would be nice,but how do you coordinate changes in the setting achieved by PCs of another group? It could work if the GMs were exchanging information on those, too, in which case, starting all the games in the same subforum might be almost required.

Off the top of my head, unless changes are on a big scale .. affecting a named location, canon NPC or what have you, then in the overall scheme of things, they probably won't have an impact on anyone elses game.

I think if there was one central location for major changes, say subdivided by region, that would allow any GM to update or track what was happening.

[RSGAlex]

Jefepato, have you tried a virus scan, or the like? Because for me 255 is perfectly readable. (It's got a few miscellaneous charm terms defined, an explanation all about Excellencies, and two archery charms.)

Especially if two separate downloads have given you the same result.

[Thufir Hawat]

Three?  Why three?

There is one reason.  It is unreadable.  To speak of examples, most of page 255 cannot be read.  I could give more examples but I don't see the point.

I don't mean difficult to read.  I mean absolutely impossible because it is just scattered letters.  Surely I'm not the only person with issues?  I downloaded it twice to be sure.

Because I thought you've been able to read them and this is your opinion. Sorry, question retracted, but page 255 is perfectly readable.

Off the top of my head, unless changes are on a big scale .. affecting a named location, canon NPC or what have you, then in the overall scheme of things, they probably won't have an impact on anyone elses game.

I think if there was one central location for major changes, say subdivided by region, that would allow any GM to update or track what was happening.

Exalted is a game known to lead to big changes, so this would still be necessary.

[Lockepick]

What do people think about the idea of a 'Living' Exalted campaign? Characters could carry over from one game to another, xp, items and history is kept (pending individual GM approval, if it might conflict with their own story plot). If a game finished up, or even an individual had to drop for whatever reason, they could then take the character on to another game later.

I'll go with whatever the GMs want to do. Personally, I find most Living Campaigns in a game as mechanical as Exalted tend to cause more issues than benefits. The game is young, and some GM rules calls might not fly with everybody -- or even how 'monty haul' one game is over the next. Even the timing of moving from one game to the next: in a meat-body tabletop game, it's pretty clear when people would move. In PbP: everything might hinge on one scene ending, where people are posting once every 48 hours, for example.

[Lockepick]

Current Listing:
Please post here or PM me if I made a mistake on your 'category', or if you need to be added to any list (including GMs who also want to play).
(Last Communication entails the last time the person said something about wanting to run or play -- not the last time they've made ANY post.)

Intending to GM	|	Last Communication	|	Details	|	Status of Game
HairyHeretic		10/25/15		No Details		0 / ? Players
Winter King		10/25/15		Multiple Ideas		0 / ? Players
Vekseid		9/15/15		No Details		0 / ? Players

Intending to Play	|	Last Communication	|	Status
Lockepick		Now		No Games
ChaoticSky		10/24/15		No Games
Thufir Hawat		10/24/15		No Games
Empyrean		10/25/15		No Games
ChaingingSaint		10/25/15		No Games
AndyZ		10/24/15		No Games
RSGAlex		10/24/15		No Games
Black Howling		9/16/15		No Games
Muse		9/15/15		No Games
Pockets		9/15/15		No Games

Others (Not sure if they have interest or are just discussing rules):

Riveda		Jefepato		Crash
Plot Hooks		TFcommando		Datawych

[RSGAlex]

Lockepick, you are a treasure.

[Winter King]

I think we have a fair number of Exalted fans here, both those who want to (or at least are willing to) GM, as well as those who want to play.

What do people think about the idea of a 'Living' Exalted campaign? Characters could carry over from one game to another, xp, items and history is kept (pending individual GM approval, if it might conflict with their own story plot). If a game finished up, or even an individual had to drop for whatever reason, they could then take the character on to another game later.

Thoughts?

Hm... I don't have them. I mean, that'd be fine with me? I'm not sure I'll be able to run more games than one, at any rate, and if people needed to drop/etc. having this would allow for others to join perhaps more fluidly than needing to create a new character, certainly.

As for needing to affect one another... I mean, Creation is huge. My current idea has a city-state sitting between Nexus and Lookshy - to the people there, Port Calin is really far away, and I doubt many of the denizens hear more than tall-tales and crazy stuff about, say, the West. There are stories that you might hear, eventually - like, the Bull smashing House Tepet's strength - which might affect games between one another, but I'm not certain how often the problem would come up unless we're all grouped in (relatively) close contact with one another - say, I run in the Scavenger Lands near Lookshy and Nexus, someone else does in Vaneha, and a third in Ixcoatli. Even then, the tales would not necessarily affect one another, I think.

[Thufir Hawat]

Maybe I should add that I'd prefer a game that doesn't include chat meetings. Oh, and I'm planning a high-Compassion Zenith.

But thank you, Lockepick, that was really helpful!

[Thufir Hawat]

Hm... I don't have them. I mean, that'd be fine with me? I'm not sure I'll be able to run more games than one, at any rate, and if people needed to drop/etc. having this would allow for others to join perhaps more fluidly than needing to create a new character, certainly.

As for needing to affect one another... I mean, Creation is huge. My current idea has a city-state sitting between Nexus and Lookshy - to the people there, Port Calin is really far away, and I doubt many of the denizens hear more than tall-tales and crazy stuff about, say, the West. There are stories that you might hear, eventually - like, the Bull smashing House Tepet's strength - which might affect games between one another, but I'm not certain how often the problem would come up unless we're all grouped in (relatively) close contact with one another - say, I run in the Scavenger Lands near Lookshy and Nexus, someone else does in Vaneha, and a third in Ixcoatli. Even then, the tales would not necessarily affect one another, I think.

By the time we get to Essence 3, we'd be hearing about each other from the West to the East.
And if we're in the same region, we might get into a city and find out the local Immaculates are bristling and a Wyld Hunt is expected soon. Why? Nothing we did! Some Anathemas robbed the Realm's satrap and are hiding with his mistress :P.
Maybe they've left the city, maybe not, but that's the nature of a "Living" campaign ;D!

[Crash]

Interested as a player but won't have the rules intil they are available to everyone.

[HairyHeretic]

Exalted is a game known to lead to big changes, so this would still be necessary.

Potentially, yes, though any game I've been in hasn't gotten to that stage.

I'll go with whatever the GMs want to do. Personally, I find most Living Campaigns in a game as mechanical as Exalted tend to cause more issues than benefits. The game is young, and some GM rules calls might not fly with everybody -- or even how 'monty haul' one game is over the next. Even the timing of moving from one game to the next: in a meat-body tabletop game, it's pretty clear when people would move. In PbP: everything might hinge on one scene ending, where people are posting once every 48 hours, for example.

True. Til we've had a chance to play with the rules some, we won't know what may need tweaking though. If we did go with this idea, anyone GMing as a part of it would have to be onboard with whatever the group as a whole decided.

The Monty Haul aspect could potentially be troublesome, but any game I've played here, I don't think it has been.

Hm... I don't have them. I mean, that'd be fine with me? I'm not sure I'll be able to run more games than one, at any rate, and if people needed to drop/etc. having this would allow for others to join perhaps more fluidly than needing to create a new character, certainly.

As for needing to affect one another... I mean, Creation is huge. My current idea has a city-state sitting between Nexus and Lookshy - to the people there, Port Calin is really far away, and I doubt many of the denizens hear more than tall-tales and crazy stuff about, say, the West. There are stories that you might hear, eventually - like, the Bull smashing House Tepet's strength - which might affect games between one another, but I'm not certain how often the problem would come up unless we're all grouped in (relatively) close contact with one another - say, I run in the Scavenger Lands near Lookshy and Nexus, someone else does in Vaneha, and a third in Ixcoatli. Even then, the tales would not necessarily affect one another, I think.

True.

By the time we get to Essence 3, we'd be hearing about each other from the West to the East.
And if we're in the same region, we might get into a city and find out the local Immaculates are bristling and a Wyld Hunt is expected soon. Why? Nothing we did! Some Anathemas robbed the Realm's satrap and are hiding with his mistress :P.
Maybe they've left the city, maybe not, but that's the nature of a "Living" campaign ;D!

And as long as each GM is updating events in a regional tracker, that should be something we could keep abreast of.

The other advantage is that each GM would be able to play in another game while running their own. :)

[Winter King]

By the time we get to Essence 3, we'd be hearing about each other from the West to the East.

I understand where you're coming from, but I feel like it kind of undermines the sense of scale when you're hearing news about the West, for instance, in Ixacoatl, and it's not almost a year out of date and/or warped beyond recognition of truth... of course, that might just be what you meant by Essence 3 there. :P

And as long as each GM is updating events in a regional tracker, that should be something we could keep abreast of.

I think my point above stands here, but I'm inclined to agree.

The other advantage is that each GM would be able to play in another game while running their own. :)

While that's definitely true, is a Living Campaign necessary for this? I mean, I'm not against the idea of a Living Campaigns in this case, just wondering how the two are connected. xD

[ChaoticSky]

255 is completely readable to me as well, and some quick skimming up and down doesnt show any obvious problems, but i might find some later.

Also I fear the complications it might bring, but i am nominally in favour of a 'living' game, since that makes it impossible for all the games to be set in the Scavenger Lands ;D

[Jefepato]

Jefepato, have you tried a virus scan, or the like? Because for me 255 is perfectly readable. (It's got a few miscellaneous charm terms defined, an explanation all about Excellencies, and two archery charms.)

Especially if two separate downloads have given you the same result.

I'm trying; my virus scanner seems to have stalled out.  Not a good sign for me.

But I've no idea what virus could selectively, and consistently, screw up a PDF.

[HairyHeretic]

I understand where you're coming from, but I feel like it kind of undermines the sense of scale when you're hearing news about the West, for instance, in Ixacoatl, and it's not almost a year out of date and/or warped beyond recognition of truth... of course, that might just be what you meant by Essence 3 there. :P

If you're dealing with purely mortal means of communication, that would be correct. But factor in spirit courts, demons, Yu Shan and all the other supernatural angles, and some information could certainly travel a lot faster ... just not everyone would be aware of it.

While that's definitely true, is a Living Campaign necessary for this? I mean, I'm not against the idea of a Living Campaigns in this case, just wondering how the two are connected. xD

Not necessary as such, but still a plus :)

[RSGAlex]

I'm trying; my virus scanner seems to have stalled out.  Not a good sign for me.

But I've no idea what virus could selectively, and consistently, screw up a PDF.

My guess is that it's one that either entered via the font vulnerabilities in the past, or one going after text and/or vision capabilities.

[Empyrean]

As far as character ideas go, I'm kind of thinking Twilight at the moment. Some backwater smith who got the Exaltation and now crafts wonders and artifacts. Just off the top of my head.

[Revelation]

I have to admit a living campaign doesn't exactly excite me, but if it's the only way to try exalted out here, i'd go with the flow just to get a shot at it.

[HairyHeretic]

It's not required by any means, I just thought it would be an idea worth kicking around :)

[Winter King]

Okay, so since people are kicking ideas around about characters, I'll leave you with a couple of thoughts I've had about where I might set the game I run.

Stone

Once an isolated manse carved from a single stone, the city-state of Stone is located a month's journey to the west of Nexus, south of the Yangze. Known for its incredibly wealthy silver mines, Stone is a city of oppression and opulence, with strong ties to the Guild on one hand, yet largely averse to the Immaculate faith of Lookshy on the other. Only truly established as Yaojin during the Shogunate, the Contagion saw a fleeing people conquer the city and put its few surviving inhabitants into the worst part of the city. Shining Sapphire, the queen of the invaders, then made a bargain with the goddess of masks, and became the first Unmasked Queen.

Since then, her descendants have ruled, often as mere puppets for the merchant princes who owned the mines, or for other, external powers such as the Marukani, or in one notable occurrence, Lookshy. This changed when a champion of Stone was Chosen by Pasiap, and, in a demonstration of his loyalty to the Queen, broke the power of the merchant princes and of external powers.

The people of Stone never show their faces in public, wearing masks whose decorations and composition depend on the social status of the wearer - only the Unmasked Queen ever goes barefaced, and all reflective surfaces are covered.

Honestly, not sure where that particular location would go - it'd be up to your characters to drive that particular plot. The other one's got more built-in plot hooks and is actually located in a Realm Satrapy.

The Satrapy of Dun-lat

Dun-lat was always a satrapy loyal to the Realm, overseen by its satraps from House Tepet, and so devoted to the Immaculate Order that families across the satrapy gave their firstborn to the Order as monks. Since the nigh-destruction of House Tepet at the hands of the Bull of the North, however, things have gone very badly very quickly - five months ago, a God-blooded woman, the daughter of the local river goddess began a revolution, and the satrap was forced to call in Tepet's flagging strength to hold on to one of its few remaining bastions. After several months of skirmishing, the God-Blooded was killed, and reputedly by an Anathema at that! Now the satrap and the flagging forces of House Tepet struggle in a chaotic mix of bandits, rebels, Anathema, and the lingering threats of its neighbors. Meanwhile, a three-tailed fox watches from the shadows, and the rage of the mother river grows ever greater.

My less developed idea, that, on reflection. But there you go.

[HairyHeretic]

I think in terms of sandbox setting, Dun-lat has more potential. The situation is unsettled, so Solars looking to establish a power base could do worse than start there.

[Winter King]

I think in terms of sandbox setting, Dun-lat has more potential. The situation is unsettled, so Solars looking to establish a power base could do worse than start there.

Yeah, that was my feeling as well. I think Stone has a certain sort of chronicle in mind, actually... Hm, interesting. Just got a couple of thoughts.

... Disregard any malevolent giggles you may think you hear.

[Revelation]

I likewise believe Dun-lat sounds much more ripe for campaign potential. Though, Stone makes me think of Facade from Nier with the masks and all.

[AndyZ]

I'm thinking about a Dawn with Steel Devil style.

[Lockepick]

Happy to help on the database!

It seems like the only discussion that's happening in regards to the living campaign is defending against negative traits -- but I don't really hear any real benefits to going that route, honestly.

I don't usually work on characters without a campaign/setting in mind, and tend to coordinate specifically with the other players. I don't want the fact that I'm not talking about a potential character to make it seem as if my interest has waned!

[ShadowFox89]

 If we still have room.... I'd like to throw my hat in >.>

[Muse]

  I'm still very interested. 

  I wouldn't mind a living campaing, but I'm behind on book aquisiton, so you'd have to put me bakc on the register. 

[Vekseid]

Three?  Why three?

There is one reason.  It is unreadable.  To speak of examples, most of page 255 cannot be read.  I could give more examples but I don't see the point.

I don't mean difficult to read.  I mean absolutely impossible because it is just scattered letters.  Surely I'm not the only person with issues?  I downloaded it twice to be sure.

Use Sumatra or FoxIt Reader. And report the issue on KickStarter, of course. : /

[Vekseid]

Off the top of my head, unless changes are on a big scale .. affecting a named location, canon NPC or what have you, then in the overall scheme of things, they probably won't have an impact on anyone elses game.

I think if there was one central location for major changes, say subdivided by region, that would allow any GM to update or track what was happening.

Living Campaign is sort of the style I am planning on doing for the game I am running on World Unbent, FYI.

[Jefepato]

Use Sumatra or FoxIt Reader. And report the issue on KickStarter, of course. : /

This seems to work.  Thanks!

(And I already reported it.)

[Thufir Hawat]

Stone reminds me of a story in "Faces and masks" SF anthology. It has potential, too.
Dun-lat reminds me of Tibet in years of chaos.
Both have potential, but it's different potential. And of course, nobody says they can't be close by ;D!

Like lockepicke, I also prefer talking about characters in context. Thus, I'll put it off, since it remains to be seen which GM, if any, would take me on board before making a character for this specific campaign :P.

Fun fact, if you want mechanics for sex, the current combat system is nearly perfect for adapting, though you'd be trying to hit the MDV instead >:)!

It's the GM's decision whether to include his game in a Living Campaign set-up, but I admit I'm honestly quite surprised to see the dislike for living campaigns, since I've never seen them failing to improve the experience.

[Lockepick]

@Those who have updated: I'll update the database soon! I just didn't want to flood this thread with every little update. Your input HAS been noted though!

It's the GM's decision whether to include his game in a Living Campaign set-up, but I admit I'm honestly quite surprised to see the dislike for living campaigns, since I've never seen them failing to improve the experience.

I think Living Campaigns are a lot of fun -- in a real life setting. I think the PbP format adds a lot of issues, and adds additional factors to consider (such as timing) that aren't a factor in PbP.

That being said, I'm a filthy whore for games and excited enough about 3E that I'm not going to avoid playing just because it's a Living Campaign.

[AndyZ]

My major concern with Ex3 is that it looks like it's going to take for-freaking-ever to do combat on forums.

In D&D, you can waive the initiative system to a major degree, but you still have hits and misses.  In Ex2, you get stuck with the initiative system a lot more, and the DV and such can slow things down.

With Ex3, not only is initiative a major factor in the game design, but most of your attacks won't actually be doing any damage.

That's not a game design flaw, but it's certainly something to take into account on our medium.

[Vekseid]

My campaign (or living campaign or however it comes together) will be played out in Ajax Chat sessions, so that won't be an issue there.

[AndyZ]

Now, one thing that I recommend as a house rule (and I already sent this in to Richard Thomas in the hopes it'll become official): make purchasing merits 3xp per dot instead of new rating x 3.

Let's say that Hairy has a character with Resources 4 and I have a character with Resources 0.  If we both go to Resources 5 at the same time, we'd both pay the same amount of XP as per the current rules.  It'd make more sense for Hairy to only pay 3xp to bump up by one, while I still pay 15xp to go from 0 to 5.

[Lockepick]

Are you sure on that? Using nWoD as a base -- the person going from Resources 0 to Resources 5 would still have to buy each dot in between.

Resources 4 -> 5 = 15 XP (5 x 3)
Resources 0 -> 5 = 45 XP ((1 x 3) + (2 x 3) + (3 x 3) + (4 x 3) + (5 x 3))

[AndyZ]

Oh, then it ends up even worse because some merits have variable rankings and some don't, and some build and others don't.

If I get a Manse at rating 5, and the Manse has always been at the high rating, do I have to pay it at 3?

Either way, you're going to heavily encourage players to buy things with variable rankings at their highest dot at character creation and avoid buying other things until later.  Martial Artist, for example, would only be 12 instead of having to pay 30 for Resources 4 with XP.

Edit: It seems like they're moving away from that path, though.

That was a big issue with willpower in Ex2, and buying WP is now just a base 8.

nWoD had all kinds of issues.  That was one of them.

[Winter King]

Keep in mind that Resources is a story merit... so you don't pay any XP at all for it. If you do things that earn you money, you get more resources dots.

Edit: Same with Manse, actually.

[AndyZ]

I missed that.  Thank you, Winter King.

I guess the only ones it really matters for right now are Mighty Thew and Quick Draw.

[Thufir Hawat]

Now, one thing that I recommend as a house rule (and I already sent this in to Richard Thomas in the hopes it'll become official): make purchasing merits 3xp per dot instead of new rating x 3.

Let's say that Hairy has a character with Resources 4 and I have a character with Resources 0.  If we both go to Resources 5 at the same time, we'd both pay the same amount of XP as per the current rules.  It'd make more sense for Hairy to only pay 3xp to bump up by one, while I still pay 15xp to go from 0 to 5.

This has been suggested multiple times and their position has repeatedly been that there is no way.
That said, no, the XP rules are consistent, since you only pay the Merit levels that exist. So if a Merit only has 1st, 3rd and 5th level, to raise it from 1st to 5th level, you only have to pay 24 points!

[AndyZ]

This has been suggested multiple times and their position has repeatedly been that there is no way.
That said, no, the XP rules are consistent, since you only pay the Merit levels that exist. So if a Merit only has 1st, 3rd and 5th level, to raise it from 1st to 5th level, you only have to pay 24 points!

Didn't realize others had suggested it.  I didn't see a lot of actual rules being offered or suggested before the PDF came out.

Still want to suggest it as a house rule, though...

[Thufir Hawat]

There were threads on The Big Purple about the mechanical changes people would like to see. The whole thing with "get some linear costs already and stop screwing people that want certain concepts for hundreds of XP" was suggested, strongly, by many people.
The developers seemed adamant that linear costs "are harming verisimilitude" or some such.

As for a houserule, I'd agree with you. Of course, I'd also suggest average XP prices of the current ones. So a level of Merit should be 9 XP, not 3, but at least it wouldn't penalise generalists that want to improve.

[AndyZ]

I mean 3xp per dot, so 3 dots would be 9xp.

At least they did so with Willpower.

[Vekseid]

The only purchased merits with variable ratings are quick draw and mighty thew.

The former is 1 and 4 dots.

The latter is 1 to 3. And mighty thew.

[Thufir Hawat]

I mean 3xp per dot, so 3 dots would be 9xp.

At least they did so with Willpower.

And I mean 9 XP per dot, because that's the average of 45 XP per 5 levels of a Merit.

[AndyZ]

Willpower is now a flat 8XP per dot, is what I mean.

[Thufir Hawat]

Yes, and adopting flat XP rates for everything is gearing up to be the most popular houserule.

[ChaoticSky]

There is also a comprehensive houserule for Crafting that basically apes the sorcery system. Since crafting as-is is is apparently broken as shit.

[Vekseid]

The core concept is pretty nice, though some of the charms weren't properly updated. Like the evocation ones. A character can begin the game preparing to start building their first artifact.

'white' experience is a bit wtf though. I told hatewheel I'm calling it luminous. >_>

[Revelation]

The big issue I have with craft is it just went back to 1e style craft, which is... not good. The whole individual craft score for individual things is a right pain in the ass and a complete XP sink.

[Vekseid]

For mortals, yes.

Arete-Shifting Prana lets you spend motes to temporarily get levels in craft that are conceptually related to craft that you have.

Supreme Celestial Focus lets you spend your mountain of crafting experience on raising craft skills. You can build up to 1 + your Essence in skills this way.

The 'optimal' thing to do is to just take one Craft skill at five - it should be one you want to make artifacts with. You use Supreme Celestial Focus to build up (Artifice), and later after you have ridiculous quantities of gold crafting experience, buy up other Craft skills you want to do artifice with.

Starting with two or more craft skills at five let you boot into artifice faster - a lot faster - but of course it's not 'xp optimal' because of SCF.

The game is filled with lots of various things like that though. It's almost a trope.

[Revelation]

That does make it better for solars, I just don't like crafting as it was done in 3e, but I might warm up to it in time!

by the by as an addendum, For anyone not reading kill 6 billion demons, you should. Fairly exalted in feel, and Throne very much reminds me of Malfeas. Check it out!

[AndyZ]

Skimming over Crafting, I don't see the point of the XP.

If I want to craft a Daiklaive, I need to craft a buttload of swords?  What for?

[Vekseid]

I think I'm in agreement with the people who want to drop 'experience' from the term. So I'll just use silver/gold/luminous points (because 'white' points are also ugh).

Points are an abstraction of leftover materials, idle products, random inspiration, and the logistical support you've built for yourself. It's those unspoken odd things you can define as you roleplay, but do not have any pure mechanical inspiration. It's divided into three levels, like much of the game is, I think to represent the different qualities of such resources. Silver is your most common ideas, most ready materials. Luminous would be your most fantastic moments of inspiration. That perfectly spun strand of orichalcum thread you made but have yet to find a worthy use for.

[AndyZ]

I think I would have gone with bronze/copper as the lowest level of the tier.

So, question about MA that isn't clear to me.  Can you just not combine the Charms in a combo, or how does that work?  It says they're incompatible, but that feels a little vague to me.

[RSGAlex]

There's three main components to putting MA charms in a combo. First, the attack has to be using the right kind of weapon. You can't have both a Snake style attack enhancer and a Righteous Devil attack enhancer in the same combo because there's no common weapon.

The second is that if you're going outside multiple styles, the charm needs to say that it can be used with the charms of other types (or vice-versa). So just because you have two weapons in your hands, unless one of the two says that they work with other abilities, you can't use both a Melee defense and a Righteous Devil defense charm to bolster your defense. Now you could use a Melee defense charm and a Righteous Devil attack charm, because those are both doing different things.

The last one only applies if you're using multiple styles, and it's that if you're wearing armor that you can use one style in, but not the other, well, you can combine the charms, but while you're in that armor you can't use one of the style's charms.

[AndyZ]

I mean in terms of other abilities, like Melee.

Can I attack with Martial Arts and defend with Melee, for example?

[Vekseid]

Someone else suggested iron, but yeah. Main concern is an improper search and replace. I'm not convinced their editing staff knows their regexes.

Combos are a thing of the past. Well, paying for them anyway, you'll probably want to organize them as such. Supplemental Charms can only supplement actions of their respective Ability unless explicitly stated, and Reflexive Charms work similarly. A single action can only involve Charms from a single Ability, unless the Charm states otherwise.

Basically it's stating outright that Martial Arts is in most respect its own Ability, and not related to Brawl or other combat Abilities, and thus you cannot e.g. supplement Brawl attacks with MA charms or vice-versa.

[Vekseid]

I mean in terms of other abilities, like Melee.

Can I attack with Martial Arts and defend with Melee, for example?

As long as you don't use Melee Charms in your attacks or MA Charms in your defensive actions, yes.

[RSGAlex]

Yeah, my reading goes along with Vekseid's. You can attack with MA and defend with Melee, but you can't use both to attack or both to defend unless at least one of the charms there says it can be used with charms of other abilities or with rolls of other abilities.

[ShadowFox89]

 Maybe we should set up a general discussion thread for Exalted :P

So from what I've been reading... there's the idea of a living campaign? With the number of people we have, that'll easily get to Big Group status fast....

[Lockepick]

Updated Current Listing:
Please post here or PM me if I made a mistake on your 'category', or if you need to be added to any list (including GMs who also want to play).
(Last Communication entails the last time the person said something about wanting to run or play -- not the last time they've made ANY post.)

Intending to GM	|	Last Communication	|	Details	|	Status of Game
HairyHeretic		Post Backer Release		No Confirmed Details		0 / ? Players
Winter King		Post Backer Release		No Confirmed Details		0 / ? Players
Vekseid		Post Backer Release		No Confirmed Details		0 / ? Players

Intending to Play	|	Last Communication	|	Status
Lockepick		Post Backer Release		No Games
ChaoticSky		Post Backer Release		No Games
Thufir Hawat		Post Backer Release		No Games
Empyrean		Post Backer Release		No Games
ChaingingSaint		Post Backer Release		No Games
AndyZ		Post Backer Release		No Games
RSGAlex		Post Backer Release		No Games
Black Howling		Pre Backer Release		No Games
Muse		Pre Backer Release		No Games
Pockets		Pre Backer Release		No Games
Crash		Post Backer Release		No Games
ShadowFox89		Post Backer Release		No Games

Others (Not sure if they have interest or are just discussing rules):

Riveda		Jefepato		Datawych
Plot Hooks		TFcommando

Somebody mentioned 'number of people', so I thought I'd offer some specifics! Right now we're looking at 3 GMs and 12 Players. This again, doesn't count GMs who ALSO want to play, or PCs that are in multiple games -- which is why I'm not making any claims like "4 PCs per GM! Perfect!".

[Thufir Hawat]

I think the crafting XP should have been named silver/god/platinum to match the D&D coin values, since you're using them to pay for crafting stuff anyways.

Martial Arts can be improved with Brawl Charms that say they can, and some of those are very nice. What I really want to know is whether you can combine usually non-combat skills like Athletics, and Martial Arts.

[ChaoticSky]

Also, on the subject of houserules, how does everyone else feel about one idea i ran across; allowing people to use the higher of str or dex for hit-rolls? To make non-Dex builds more viable/comparable to Dex-focused ones?

[AndyZ]

I think I'd be good for that with non-light brawl and melee weapons.

[ChaoticSky]

I think I'd be good for that with non-light brawl and melee weapons.

Probably a good caveat, would have to be thematically appropriate. Brawl: Heavy blows vs prancy bullshit, Melee: Reavers vs Reapers, for example.

Attacks should be described in terms of the stat you use.

[AndyZ]

It occurs to me that Brawl is always Unarmed Light, so you'd want to stunt it to that effect.  Even so, no argument that Dex is overpowered.

[Vekseid]

Also, on the subject of houserules, how does everyone else feel about one idea i ran across; allowing people to use the higher of str or dex for hit-rolls? To make non-Dex builds more viable/comparable to Dex-focused ones?

I'm thinking of allowing the Brutal merit, for Brawl and medium/heavy melee, but there's the question of its interaction with ISE. Not that that's new.

[ChaoticSky]

It occurs to me that Brawl is always Unarmed Light, so you'd want to stunt it to that effect.  Even so, no argument that Dex is overpowered.

Heresy i say! The true essence of martial arts is a wide stance and a heavy fist! *hammy pose!*

Theres nothing light about that.  They are thinking about those prancy kung fu styles where the guy balances on a leaf.

But yea... thats my argument anyway.

(ooh ninja'd by Vekseid. Mind you, i dislike the notion of having to pay for game balance, but ill take it over imbalance)

[Thufir Hawat]

Also, on the subject of houserules, how does everyone else feel about one idea i ran across; allowing people to use the higher of str or dex for hit-rolls? To make non-Dex builds more viable/comparable to Dex-focused ones?

There are Brawl Charms that allow Str+Brawl attacks, like Devil-Strangling Attitude. They are also a vital part of the Brawl tree from which are starting different branches, so I'd advise against removing them.
IMO, it's much simpler, and thus preferable, to create such a Charm for Melee, and make the Brawl Charms explicitly able to enhance Martial Arts.

[Winter King]

IMO, it's much simpler, and thus preferable, to create such a Charm for Melee, and make the Brawl Charms explicitly able to enhance Martial Arts.

Eep. As I am given to understand it, MA and Brawl were balanced with the assumption that they wouldn't be able to be combined.

For myself, I'm reluctant to start house ruling things before we even start playing - the rules were written one way with extensive play testing, so I'd like to do some of my own play testing before screwing around with stuff and potentially making problems happen. Part of this is also simply because I know how much of the mechanical wariness of players comes from 2e's legacy, where you could get 1-hit because you had mismanaged your experience spending and the other guy hadn't. I'm more interested in seeing what we can do to make an interesting and fun story than playing around with the mechanics before we really get to trying them.

Mind, I understand why people are so wary, as I said, but I'm personally inclined to trust the devs, at least until I try the system out in truth myself.

[Lockepick]

I agree with Winter King.

Again, I'm a filthy whore for games, so I'll play in a game regardless -- but I am a little surprised at the volume of House Rules people are suggesting so early in the game's life. Though I have no idea how long people have had the rules before the Backer Release, or how much testing has been done.

[Plot Hooks]

^ What he said.

For one, you can buy Martial Arts with Solar XP, which is *huge*.    With any luck, you cold potentially pick up a Martial Arts charm every session. I don't think you really need to be able to further augment it with Brawl.

[AndyZ]

The setting idea I've considered for a while likely won't be set for a while, as I've got too much burning in my brain right now to settle out an entire story.  However, that will hopefully change in the coming weeks.

My idea is simple, if unfleshed.  In the First Age, five Solars ruled and protected a particular area/city.  It'd be a custom setting that isn't fleshed out in the books to any significant degree, primarily designed by the five people that would end up playing in it.

The premise is likewise simple: regain the allies who still remain, remove any current leadership, and then hold it against any and all incoming hordes.

[ChaoticSky]

Also fair points, though its also worth pointing out that i didnt meant to imply mixing brawl with MA... I'm just trying to put a quick and simple fix out there for a glaring imbalance.

I realize we havnt done any play testing here, and perhaps results will pan out differently, but from what ive been reading from people who have been doing playtests (on reddit for example), Dex is a combat god stat to the point that you either make a dex build... or your doing it wrong.. One playtest i read had a GM pit two players against each other, one making a Dex based character (four points on Dex, to max it at 5, str and sta 1) vs a Str/Sta based character (four points on str and sta to max them both at 5, dex 1). Which by the way, is twice the attribute investment, eight points in physical attributes vs four. Added related abilities like Dodge/Resistence, and suitable charms.... and it was no contest. The Dex char won every single time. So he switched them, Dexguy made the Str/Sta char and Str/sta guy made a dexchar. But the results where the same.

One proposal that came out of that discussion, was to allow the use of the higher of Str or Dex for attack rolls, thereby making str more competitive. In execution this did not correct the imbalance, merely made it less extreme and gave str/sta builds a fighting chance.

This is why i was lukewarm to Vek's idea of using the Brutal Merit... since all that would do is force people to pay even more (merit or bonus points), on top of a higher attribute investment, while not even truely bringing it to par... let alone rising you up the way youd expect from such a heavy investment.

Now you can say thats just the choice that people like me who preferr to be titans rather than leaves on the wind have to make, accepting suboptimality for the sake of a concept, and im fine with that.... I used to play a Raksha instead of a Exalt when i could get away with it, but thats not a notion ill accept as long as there are reasonable options otherwise.


Of course, all this may be moot if the poster was a troll or something, or maybe neither of his players really knew how to work a str/sta build properly. I look forward to seeing how our own tests play out. But if they are anything like what ive seen described, then allowing str might be the least we can do.

Again, I'm a filthy whore for games, so I'll play in a game regardless -- but I am a little surprised at the volume of House Rules people are suggesting so early in the game's life. Though I have no idea how long people have had the rules before the Backer Release, or how much testing has been done.

Pretty much this, like 80%+ of the discussion oveer 3E is in developing houserules to work around the weridness in Exalted 3E, and the reason for this is simple; People playtested the game during development, they submitted solutions to all these problems.... and the devs decided that those solutions didnt fit their vision for the game. The crafting system, some combat oddities, scaling Exp costs, etc. This was all known before and they simply decided they like it as-is and rejected all attempts to fix this stuff prior to release. Its becoming abit of a habit with them, they did the same thing with Beast (pretty much ignored all advice between the playtest and backer editions)

So now everyone is mostly interested in how to fix it ourselves, fortunately, as Exalted players, we have alot of experience at this.

[Winter King]

Well, let's try our own tests before attempting to rebalance things, yes? I mean, the thing I understand is that at this point in time, very few people have had the chance to fully explore the system and all its myriad tactics. I'm just really reluctant to call anything obviously unbalanced yet - I know others are doing so on various places on the internet, but I'm not keen on doing so because I do not really know the deeper implications of the system.

I feel like, as I wrote before, a lot of the perceived "weirdness" in 3e is from the specter of 2e's flaws - people are worried and making mountains of molehills, so to speak. People are overfocusing on the mechanics because they're perilously afraid - out of habit, mostly - that the mechanics are going to screw up the stories they want to tell. Maybe the mechanics will do that, but I think, from what I've seen of them and having never used them yet, that 3e's mechanics are far less likely to break stories you want to try to tell than 2e's were. I mean, the 3e mechanics may not support your story fully, depending on your ST and what story you want to tell, but even then I feel that they're better off than 2e's because, so far as I can tell, you've not got a similar "mess up one stat buy and you die 100% of the time" factor. Even in the example ChaoticSky's given us, I'm not sure that it's really quite true, because I recall that the devs have said several times that 3e's combat is really not ideal for representing a 1x1 "white room" battle, under any circumstances, let alone the ones described.

Well, in any case, I think my opinion on the matter's clear enough, so I'll stop here, but I still feel like trying to fix the system is premature, and will likely result in weirder issues raising their heads down the line, but I understand why people are looking to do this.

[Vekseid]

This is why i was lukewarm to Vek's idea of using the Brutal Merit... since all that would do is force people to pay even more (merit or bonus points), on top of a higher attribute investment, while not even truely bringing it to par... let alone rising you up the way youd expect from such a heavy investment.

Two important things.

1) The most important thing is that it needs to be balanced towards the optimized build. Brutal Solar has Increasing Strength Exercise - a scene-long die adder. I'm mostly not sure where to place it, point cost wise. At least you can't bunnyhop any longer.

2) I don't want to go with 'higher of strength or dex' because strength-based builds and strategies should genuinely, truly be their own thing, with their own unique flavor. A player interested in it may need to convince me of some Charms, but for now I want to see a few combats - thus my other thread on this. I may run an Exalted Arena on World Unbent to properly analyze this sort of thing, summon Exalted fans from Reddit and Onyx Path.

My primary concern is it looks like the devs have addressed some of the prior issues with Strength builds. I would like to see what tricks people might miss in their tests, for example.

After a few, I'll introduce a Brutal merit at some dot level, and see how it plays out.

[Thufir Hawat]

Eep. As I am given to understand it, MA and Brawl were balanced with the assumption that they wouldn't be able to be combined.

No, there are already Brawl Charms that can enhance MA. The balance, I'm pretty sure, comes from only allowing certain effects to combine with MA, and not random combinations between any MA and any Brawl charms.
Besides, MA have never been the overpowered option, for any splat except maybe Sidereals, and then only on higher essence than most groups were likely to ever reach.

Mostly, ChaoticSky is right, and I would have fully expected that test's outcome mostly without looking. Strength builds aren't going to be on par with Dexterity builds even if you could attack with Strength, unless you can also at least parry with Strength. Then and only then, Strength might come ahead due to Increasing Strength Exercise and the like. If the Dex guy has reasonable access to unblockable attacks, I'd expect us being back to at least parity.

As for houserules, I wouldn't be surprised. That's a game where people have told the developers that something is causing problems at their tables, only to be met with "that's how it should work". As an example, advancement rules possibly causing up to 135 XP disparity between different concepts is obviously fine, just play the concepts that the system rewards.
And it's a game that historically relied on a combination of houserules and GM fiat :P.
Let's say the combination of these two isn't conducive to the game being run RAW ;D!

[AndyZ]

My concerns are rather simple to point out with the Dexterity deal:

We know from 2e that Dex is slightly better, and if Withering attacks did direct damage, we'd more or less have something identical to what we used to have.  Dexterity would be slightly better, but not significantly so.

With decisive attacks, we still use Dexterity for attack and defense, but we don't use Strength or Stamina.  In effect, Dexterity is now even MORE powerful.

[Thufir Hawat]

The damage of Decisive attacks depends on your strength, stamina, weapons and armour, though. It's just happening in a roundabout way, because they help you get initiative via withering attacks.
Overall, I'd expect to see Stamina and Strength being slightly more powerful than before, but still nowhere near parity with Dexterity.

[AndyZ]

Here's the issue: in a balanced system, a high Strength low Dexterity character is going to hit less often, but those hits are going to matter more.

Not only do you have to do lots of hits of Withering to build up Initiative, but you have to choose when you're going to go Decisive and make sure those hit, or lose initiative per failure.

You also have that Strength is only good for adding to raw Withering damage, Stamina is only good for Soak, but Dexterity is good for withering attacks, decisive attacks, and defense.

[Vekseid]

I have finished a dieroller for Exalted on Legends of a World Unbent: http://worldunbent.com/forums/index.php?topic=219.msg1728#msg1728

[Winter King]

Okay, now I'm actually kind of debating whether or not to open up a thread as a preliminary preparation sort of thing - solely so that would-be players and I could hammer out character concepts and focus in more on what we wanted from the game. Not going to quite yet - probably later today, but I'll put a link here when I finish.

Just because it's been out for a week, and while I'm (definitely) not looking to start for another week or so, I'd like to open discussions about the game.

Now that I think about it, though, I have a couple of questions for my fellow would-be STs and players:

Do we have a final consensus on whether we want it to be a living world?

And do we have anyone else who would be inclined to doing this via a chat or something like it, or would we rather focus on PbP?

[Lockepick]

Personally: I'd rather PbP, but I'd be willing to do a chat based game if the schedule worked.

[AndyZ]

My issue with PbP is that combat will take months.

As far as living world, no real opinion.

[Thufir Hawat]

Well, I just can't make the chat sessions. Obviously that leaves the PbP for me.
I'd prefer a Living campaign, but it's up to the GM to decide that.

[Vekseid]

Arena character generation rules are up, the intent is mostly to get familiar with the system.

The Exalted dieroller, /secret and /reveal commands that I wrote should cover most everything needed for the system.

[Muse]

  I favor p laybypost as well.  It's hard for me to get to real time games. 

[Winter King]

My issue with PbP is that combat will take months.

I think that you might be surprised. From what I've read (mind, this may be a unique experience) most of the combats only take about 3 rounds. That said, I'm not sure of the context of those combats, so you may well be right to be concerned. All that said - I feel like my own tendencies are to enjoy noncombat activities more than combat activities, so unless the characters are really dumb, they can probably get away without combat for awhile. But perhaps that's not desirable, I'm not sure.

[ChaoticSky]

Pbp, though im also up for chat if the timing works.

Living world, because that way enforces some variety on the game's settings.

[Winter King]

It's open!

[AndyZ]

Anyone besides Winter King starting up a game?

[Thufir Hawat]

I would hope all non-closed games shall be announced in this thread.

[HairyHeretic]

I figure I will get a game going at some point, but I'm a little busy at present, and still haven't had a decent read through the full rules yet.

Still tempted to run a Return of the Scarlett Empress campaign though :)

[AndyZ]

I could gladly try out Return of the Scarlet Empress.  I know the basics OOC but have never played through the actual story.

[Vekseid]

Finishing up a 3rd Edition character sheet for the wiki, as well as an interface for my dieroller.

The game proper won't start until the full pdf is available for people though.

[RSGAlex]

If anyone wants an excel sheet base, I altered one I collaborated with a friend on and it seems to be working fine. I'll be meeting with 'em soon, and can ask 'em to enable sharing on it.

Or, more likely, get him to say that I can just go in and do the changes myself.

[Empyrean]

A Return of the Scarlet Empress game? Would we be starting as new Solars in that setting?

[HairyHeretic]

That's part of what I'm trying to work out. I'm thinking it would be better run with, and might even need, more powerful characters. I'll still trying to figure out how doable it is.

[Muse]

I figure I will get a game going at some point, but I'm a little busy at present, and still haven't had a decent read through the full rules yet.

Still tempted to run a Return of the Scarlett Empress campaign though :)

*poucne!* 
 
Please please please let me play, Hairy?  I've held off reading that book for YEARS in hopes someone would run it for me! 

[HairyHeretic]

I like the idea of running it as a grand campaign, but I don't know it could be done with starting characters. Give me some time to kick the idea around, and if I think it's workable I'll put a game thread up.

[AndyZ]

Let's see if this draws any attention: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=239196.0