Don't read Annotated Books

[Oniya]

Um, actually, censorship has pretty much always existed.  Socrates was killed for saying things that weren't popular, the Vatican used to (still?) bans books, the Egyptians chiseled away the name of Akhenaten from 98% of the places it was inscribed.  Any time you have a group in power, they are not going to want to have things they disagree with in the public view.

[Vandren]

Many of Shakespeare's works are altered, abridged, or re-mixed versions of the works of prior playwrights.

Shakespeare had no original plots, neither did Geoffrey Chaucer.  However, practically every writer and playwright during their eras "stole" (no concept of intellectual property or copyright) other writers' works.   While good ole Billy S. sat and took notes while watching other playwrights' work, they did the same to him.  He was just better at it and did more interesting things with language.

Annotated books are books that have had additions made to them, usually in the form of relevant footnotes.  Case in point is the Annotated H.P. Lovecraft, which includes references to the time and region that Lovecraft was writing in, which gives the reader even more of a context to use to appreciate the work.  I recall an annotated Through the Looking Glass that included the moves to the chess game that Alice was taking part in.  Annotated Shakespeare includes definitions of what was common slang in the Elizabethan era.

Abridged books (aka, the Creeping Evil of Censorship) are books that have had parts of the text removed, either for conciseness (abridged audio books, abridged dictionaries) or for editorial reasons (where segments have been removed because they are distasteful to someone).

Thank you, thank you, thank you!  I was cringing through the first couple posts.

we can't have the $80,000 a year teachers actually WORKING, can we?

Where do we have $80,000/year teaching (without being at the same university for 40+ years that is)?  And do they have an opening for an English teacher?

(Sorry, I've yet to meet a pre-college teacher who makes more than $50,000, and most are more like $30,000; even the college/university profs are in the $30,000-$50,000 range for most of their careers.  And that's with more teachers and professors than I can count in my blood/marriage family.)

[Paladin]

A quote from the article:

Beg to differ. :)

I'm glad people are still talking about this. It's been an issue ever since before I was in school... And will continue to be an issue until and unless we un-fuck the education 'system'.

*Sides with Trieste on the matter*


Next thing you know anne Mcaffery will be on the list. Censorship is BullShit!

[Vandren]

With Billy S., it helps that most of his tragedies and comedies are paired (basically the same story, but one event occurs to change it from everyone dies to happy ending).  Obviously, none of the histories are original.  Most of those are drawn from Classical writers (Julius Caesar), British historians, or Thomas More (Richard III)

[Trieste]

I got a lovely leatherbound volume of Poe's collected works for Christmas from my brother. Some of the annotations are half a page long ... it's wonderful.

[Dizzi]

yeah, back in highschool we had a book with a bunch of shakespear stuff but, honestly, annotations are only annoying when you are being forced to read them in class -_-

Also, Nimmy you said that they are important to understand the story because we don;t understand his English, which is partially true (to my understanding) We still use some of Shakespeare's words (Wierd, eyeball etc.) as well as is is mainly the diction that is hard to understand.  If you've ever seen an actual Shakespeare play, it's much easier to understand.  You also get to see just how raunchy Shakespeare was haha.  Twelfth Night is all boob grabbing, slapstick, and the south park of it's time really.

P.S.: when I said 'if youve ever seen an actual Shakespeare play, that was not meant to be rude.  after proofreading the post I noticed it was possible to take it that way.  I want to assure you it was not meant to come off as rude

[Vandren]

If you've ever seen an actual Shakespeare play, it's much easier to understand.

Actually, as someone who's seen nearly every Shakespeare play live or in movie form (inc. one at the Globe) and studied him for over a decade, I find him easier to read for understanding than to watch.  The one exception to that "rule" is Much Ado About Nothing, with Branagh's version.  Then again, I read Middle English nearly fluently, so Elizabethan English is easy to read and I rarely use the language footnotes.

You also get to see just how raunchy Shakespeare was

Picked up all of this from "merely" reading him.  Most of his humor comes from innuendo and bodily functions (same with Chaucer, actually).

there are the transvestite plays

Basically every Shakespeare play and virtually all British comedy?  And ancient Greek comedy?  Transvestitism is one of the mainstays of dramatic comedy in nearly every culture throughout history.

I think Shakespeare's plays are fine for HS audiences, even younger (heck they were fine for children when he wrote them), however most American high schools tend to only teach the tragedies and histories.  They generally tend to ignore the comedies, which is a definitely problem.

[Oniya]

I don't seem to recall any transvestism in Othello or Hamlet, but perhaps I'm forgetting a crucial scene.

At the time they were written and performed, it was considered unseemly for women to take part in theatrical productions.  All female characters were portrayed by male actors dressed in female clothing.  So therefore, Desdemona, Ophelia and the Queen would all have been men in drag.  This added an extra level of humor when you had the comedies where a woman actually disguised herself as a man (such as Twelfth Night), because you'd have a man, dressed as a woman, dressed as a man - or Victor/Victoria in reverse.

[Oniya]

There was some transvestism in some of the plays mentioned (such as Twelfth Night), but when trying to apply the term to 'all' Greek and Shakespearean plays, that would be the only way to make it fit.

[Dizzi]

Actually, as someone who's seen nearly every Shakespeare play live or in movie form (inc. one at the Globe) and studied him for over a decade, I find him easier to read for understanding than to watch.  The one exception to that "rule" is Much Ado About Nothing, with Branagh's version.  Then again, I read Middle English nearly fluently, so Elizabethan English is easy to read and I rarely use the language footnotes.

Picked up all of this from "merely" reading him.  Most of his humor comes from innuendo and bodily functions (same with Chaucer, actually).

Basically every Shakespeare play and virtually all British comedy?  And ancient Greek comedy?  Transvestitism is one of the mainstays of dramatic comedy in nearly every culture throughout history.

I think Shakespeare's plays are fine for HS audiences, even younger (heck they were fine for children when he wrote them), however most American high schools tend to only teach the tragedies and histories.  They generally tend to ignore the comedies, which is a definitely problem.

Sorry I offended you :(  I should not have been so close minded.  I should have put for me it's easier to watch the play.  granted, I've only seen one.  and the movies we watched in class were always broken up.  I should get myself a written version of one of the plays and read that to compare, since I'll be able to read at my own pace...

[Vandren]

Not offended, Dizzi.  Just pointing out that many of us prefer reading to watching in some respects, or have been trained in such a way that reading things from certain periods is relatively easy -- like I find it easier and, in some ways, more fun to read Chaucer or the Gawain-poet in the original Middle English rather than in a Modern English translation because of my training (spending a few hundred hours learning to read ME in a couple dialects, of which Chaucer's is the easiest by far).*

* Reading Chaucer in the original at first, it helps to have the Riverside Chaucer because the annotations/footnotes are essential.