Dark M's Resurrection - A high-powered D&D 3.5 game (NC-Exotic)(Closed)

Started by Kunoichi, January 31, 2018, 02:10:41 AM

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Lockepick

So you're adding something to the Prestige Class that makes it an immediate action? Because the ability to block spells is entirely in the Feat -- the class just allows you to store more Spellfire levels and drain items.

I still feel like being immune to one non-AoE spell per round (even if it's 'only' one) is pretty huge. That's like super Spell Resistance (since there's no check and it applies to basically every spell).

I guess all of the uses of Spellfire require a standard action -- so you could just blast people until they blow up, and they'll have to spend rounds draining the power off? Though I'm sure their CON will be high enough that it's not REALLY an issue.

I guess if somebody said they wanted this combo as a Quality, I'd likely question it still -- so thus my surprise. Whatever's clever though! I'm not the one who approves things.
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Zaer Darkwail

I know blocking spell is in the feat, however without PrC to do so takes standard action to 'ready' to block/absord spells. However it may indeed be perhaps too powerful allow unlimited 'readying' as immediate action. I leave Kunoichi on judge how shuffle the feature around. However point being why I make that call is because besides allies bombarding you with spells or you walking in and trying provoke casters to hit you, using standard action every round to adsorb is not useful at all despite lore/legend of the feat.

Kunoichi

Quote from: Zaer Darkwail on February 18, 2018, 08:01:00 AM
Just note on Spellfire Channeler prestige class that in first level instead of using readied action (which takes standard action to do so), you can 'ready' drain spells as immediate action and then be constantly draining any magic targeting on you long as you focus/concentrate on it. As otherwise spellfire channeler is easy to 'nuke' with magic as it would take standard action to drain magic targeting on them (more as suprise action than spellfire channeler expecting it).

Making the class turn it into an immediate action doesn’t actually help a Spellfire Channeler who’s caught by surprise, however.  Surprised creatures are flat-footed, and flat-footed creatures can’t take immediate actions.  In this case, I’d recommend keeping it as a standard action, because...

Quote from: Lockepick on February 18, 2018, 12:30:38 PM
So you're adding something to the Prestige Class that makes it an immediate action? Because the ability to block spells is entirely in the Feat -- the class just allows you to store more Spellfire levels and drain items.

I still feel like being immune to one non-AoE spell per round (even if it's 'only' one) is pretty huge. That's like super Spell Resistance (since there's no check and it applies to basically every spell).

I guess all of the uses of Spellfire require a standard action -- so you could just blast people until they blow up, and they'll have to spend rounds draining the power off? Though I'm sure their CON will be high enough that it's not REALLY an issue.

I guess if somebody said they wanted this combo as a Quality, I'd likely question it still -- so thus my surprise. Whatever's clever though! I'm not the one who approves things.

The big use for the Spellfire Channeler prestige class normally is to have an ally with an at-will spell-like ability charge the Spellfire Wielder up outside of combat, and then let them cut loose in-combat with high-damage Spellfire blasts.  Spending a standard action to ready an action to absorb spells is generally a bit of a gamble, because if no enemies target you, or if they target you with something you can’t absorb, you’ve effectively wasted your action for the turn.

Plus, at the level we’re playing at, powerful supernatural abilities are also not uncommon, and being a spellfire wielder doesn’t let one absorb those, even when they actively mimic spell effects.

Quote from: Zaer Darkwail on February 18, 2018, 01:22:53 PM
I know blocking spell is in the feat, however without PrC to do so takes standard action to 'ready' to block/absord spells. However it may indeed be perhaps too powerful allow unlimited 'readying' as immediate action. I leave Kunoichi on judge how shuffle the feature around. However point being why I make that call is because besides allies bombarding you with spells or you walking in and trying provoke casters to hit you, using standard action every round to adsorb is not useful at all despite lore/legend of the feat.

As a possible compromise, perhaps the Spellfire Channeler class can grant the character a way to ‘disguise’ their readied action somehow, granting them the chance to occasionally catch their opponents off-guard with it in a fight?

Alternately, there’s always the option for the Spellfire Wielder to take Celerity for one of his 3/day spell-like abilities.

PaleEnchantress

#478
Quote from: Zaer Darkwail on February 18, 2018, 01:22:53 PM
I know blocking spell is in the feat, however without PrC to do so takes standard action to 'ready' to block/absord spells. However it may indeed be perhaps too powerful allow unlimited 'readying' as immediate action. I leave Kunoichi on judge how shuffle the feature around. However point being why I make that call is because besides allies bombarding you with spells or you walking in and trying provoke casters to hit you, using standard action every round to adsorb is not useful at all despite lore/legend of the feat.

I agree with you Zaer.  Letting spellfire channeler absorb as an immediate action reaction is making the class useful.  Not making it overpowered. I don't think it needs much "nerfing" of that.
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Zaer Darkwail

How sounds Kunoichi that Spellfire Channeler since level 1 gets immediate action to ready to absord a spell (which they are aware of) and they can absord only one spell that way (so it remains once per turn trick overall). Otherwise it's standard action and hoping you get targeted.

PaleEnchantress

Quote from: Zaer Darkwail on February 18, 2018, 01:36:25 PM
How sounds Kunoichi that Spellfire Channeler since level 1 gets immediate action to ready to absord a spell (which they are aware of) and they can absord only one spell that way (so it remains once per turn trick overall). Otherwise it's standard action and hoping you get targeted.

By one do you mean once per turn? Once per day? 
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Kunoichi

Hmm. Well, the main thing is that it’s usually only going to be useful once per encounter to begin with, since enemies will change their tactics to take the ability into account as soon as they know about it.  Thinking about it from that perspective, I suppose it wouldn’t actually be too powerful to simply let it function as an immediate action (or, more accurately, to let the Spellfire Channeler ready himself to absorb spells like a rod of absorption, as an immediate action when first targeted by a single-target spell or ray in a round).

Edit: I will suggest that it not be allowed to be combined with the Monster of Legend template’s Reflective Hide ability, however.

Zaer Darkwail

Quote from: PaleEnchantress on February 18, 2018, 01:40:39 PM
By one do you mean once per turn? Once per day?

Once per turn. Yeah, I think so too Kunoichi; making it immediate action to work on any spell which Spellfire Channeler wants absorb (and is single targeting him) per round is not big deal. As rest spells go through as norm unless spellfire channeler took standard action to ready himself.

PaleEnchantress

Quote from: Kunoichi on February 18, 2018, 01:44:59 PM
Hmm. Well, the main thing is that it’s usually only going to be useful once per encounter to begin with, since enemies will change their tactics to take the ability into account as soon as they know about it.  Thinking about it from that perspective, I suppose it wouldn’t actually be too powerful to simply let it function as an immediate action (or, more accurately, to let the Spellfire Channeler ready himself to absorb spells like a rod of absorption, as an immediate action when first targeted by a single-target spell or ray in a round).

That's fairly accurate. Let me just put it into words how I'm looking at it right now. Imagine your character without having to spend a feat or class levels got a free ability that she could ready an action to absorb a targeted spell at her negating it. How often would you want to give up your turn to do this? I'd be incredibly surprised if the answer is anything other than Almost Never. Now count that with the way we're doing it you have to spend a feat and at least one class level for it. It sounded even worse now isn't it? If you're thinking about it's offensive applications spellfire raise aren't that great it's not until you take many class levels that you can start to do decent damage with them considering they require an attack the enemy gets to save and it's half fire damage. I know if echidna had to face spellfire wielder my who could use an immediate action to absorb targeted spell, I would probably just Target them with more spells rather than feel like my spells were useless against them. If they can negate a single good spell of mine I'll just make sure to hit them with more than one per round so that no matter what they absorb they're still screwed.
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Waldham

QuoteThe normal formula for combining magic items is that the less expensive items get their cost multiplied by x1.5 and then added onto the cost of the most expensive item.  Unfortunately, even without doing that, this item goes over the limit of 100,000 gp for your item of power.

Ok, I thought about other things.

Thanks for your advice, but I don't think take the spellfire channeler PrC.

Kunoichi

Quote from: Waldham on February 18, 2018, 03:05:54 PM
Ok, I thought about other things.

Thanks for your advice, but I don't think take the spellfire channeler PrC.

Alright.  How’s your build coming along now, by the way?

Waldham

- Grasping mandibles (similar to the mouth/jaw on the picture but a Large size) : Improved Grab Market Price: 15,000 gp x 1.5 = 22,500 gp
- Aboleth Tentacle Price : 50,000 gp

Total cost : 72,500 gp

Aspect of Thiel
Size/Type:  Large outsider (Evil, Extraplanar, and Yugoloth)
Hit Dice: 8d8+56 (120 hp); Fast Healing 5
Resist: Resistance to cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10, SR 20
Immunity: Immunity to acid and poison
Languages: Common, Abyssal
Initiative: +9
Speed:  50 ft. (33 squares)
Armor Class: 29 (-1 size, +15 natural armor, +5 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+25
Attack: Hoof +21 melee (1d6+13) or 6 spikes +21 ranged (1d8+6/19-20)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +21 melee (1d6+13), bite +19 melee (1d8+6); or 6 spikes +21 ranged (1d8+6/19-20)   
Space/Reach: 10 ft./1.5 ft.
Special Attacks: Varies (see in below)
Special Qualities: Varies (see in below), DR 10/cold iron & good, Telepathy 300'ft, Darkvision 60'ft
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +11, Will +7
Abilities: Str 37, Dex 21, Con 30, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 16
Skills: Balance + 25, Concentration + 22, Diplomacy +15, Intimidation + 15, Knowledge (Planes) + 13, Listen + 13, Sense Motive + 13, Spot + 13, Swim + 23
Skill Tricks: Spot the Weak Point.
Feats: Dark Speech, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Martial study [steel wind], Martial stance [punishing stance], Point Blank Shot
Environment: An evil-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 7
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Treasure: 9,400 gp

There are four aspects of Thiel and they each embrace a part of him and thus they have different set of abilities or special attacks with each. Details for each one is listed in below :
(coming soon)
Name 1 : Assimilate flesh, Regeneration (9) [as a war troll]
Name 2 : Immunities to polymorphing, and mind-affecting effects, Regrow limbs (Ex)
Name 3 : Powerful spike and Blade Storm
Name 4 : immunity to sleep and paralysis, energy drain immunity

Kunoichi

Quote from: Waldham on February 19, 2018, 04:15:42 PM
- Grasping mandibles (similar to the mouth/jaw on the picture but a Large size) : Improved Grab Market Price: 15,000 gp x 1.5 = 22,500 gp
- Aboleth Tentacle Price : 50,000 gp

Total cost : 72,500 gp

That works.  I’ll also note that the Magic Item Compendium has rules for allowing certain common item effects (ability enhancers, save bonuses, that sort of thing) to be applied on to items that take up certain slots without having a price increase.  A graft doesn’t quite take up any normal item slots, but I’d be willing to still let you tack on a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength or Constitution to your combined graft for the basic item cost of 16,000 gp, if you wanted.

Also, I only just remembered this template exists, but the Wendigo template from Fiend Folio seems like it would be extremely fitting for your character concept.  At CR +2, you’d probably have to trade in your half-dragon template to fit it in, which would lead to you losing 4 points in your Strength score, but you’d gain a lot of useful special abilities in return, including a much higher AC and an excellent flight speed.

Quote
Aspect of Thiel
Size/Type:  Large outsider (Evil, Extraplanar, and Yugoloth)
Hit Dice: 8d8+56 (120 hp); Fast Healing 5
Resist: Resistance to cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10, SR 20
Immunity: Immunity to acid and poison
Languages: Common, Abyssal
Initiative: +9
Speed:  50 ft. (33 squares)
Armor Class: 29 (-1 size, +15 natural armor, +5 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+25
Attack: Hoof +21 melee (1d6+13) or 6 spikes +21 ranged (1d8+6/19-20)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +21 melee (1d6+13), bite +19 melee (1d8+6); or 6 spikes +21 ranged (1d8+6/19-20)   
Space/Reach: 10 ft./1.5 ft.
Special Attacks: Varies (see in below)
Special Qualities: Varies (see in below), DR 10/cold iron & good, Telepathy 300'ft, Darkvision 60'ft
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +11, Will +7
Abilities: Str 37, Dex 21, Con 30, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 16
Skills: Balance + 25, Concentration + 22, Diplomacy +15, Intimidation + 15, Knowledge (Planes) + 13, Listen + 13, Sense Motive + 13, Spot + 13, Swim + 23
Skill Tricks: Spot the Weak Point.
Feats: Dark Speech, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Martial study [steel wind], Martial stance [punishing stance], Point Blank Shot
Environment: An evil-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 7
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Treasure: 9,400 gp

There are four aspects of Thiel and they each embrace a part of him and thus they have different set of abilities or special attacks with each. Details for each one is listed in below :
(coming soon)
Name 1 : Assimilate flesh, Regeneration (9) [as a war troll]
Name 2 : Immunities to polymorphing, and mind-affecting effects, Regrow limbs (Ex)
Name 3 : Powerful spike and Blade Storm
Name 4 : immunity to sleep and paralysis, energy drain immunity

Your aspect stats look mostly good.  May I ask how you got the aspect’s Balance and Concentration skills so high?

Muse

Aren't you limited to one imediate action per round?  Requiring the same action slot that you might use to cast a quickened spell ? Keeping that in mind it doesn't seem particularly overpowered to me? 
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Zaer Darkwail

You mean the spellfire channeler class upragde for spellfire? Yeah, that's why I did argue it's not OP upragde. But then again spellfire channeler class is entered by someone who is unlikely a caster.

Kunoichi

Quote from: Muse on February 20, 2018, 05:11:59 AM
Aren't you limited to one imediate action per round?  Requiring the same action slot that you might use to cast a quickened spell ? Keeping that in mind it doesn't seem particularly overpowered to me?

Using an immediate action takes up your swift action for the next round.  This does prevent you from using a quickened spell on the turn after you used an immediate action, and also prevents the use of other things that take up your swift action, like changing your stance if you're a Tome of Battle character.

That said, what Zaer was talking about was altering the Spellfire Channeler prestige class to allow you to ready yourself to absorb spells as an immediate action, after which point you continue to absorb spells without needing to take any action, as the 3.5 version of a Rod of Absorption, until the beginning of your next turn.  There was some concern that this might have turned it into a rather overpowered defensive ability, but the fact that the Rod of Absorption only absorbs certain types of spells actually balances that out more than one might expect (it would absorb charm monster but not fireball, magic missile or Mordenkainen's sword, for example).

PaleEnchantress

Quote from: Muse on February 20, 2018, 05:11:59 AM
Aren't you limited to one imediate action per round?  Requiring the same action slot that you might use to cast a quickened spell ? Keeping that in mind it doesn't seem particularly overpowered to me?

I think we came to that consensus, but it's mostly moot now since it does not appear anyone will be taking it


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Kunoichi

By the way, Glyphstone, your character sheet is finished, right?  There’ve been proper OOC and Character Sheets threads up for a few days now, and the game itself is starting tomorrow.  Though, it’s starting off with some introductory roleplaying, so anyone who hasn’t gotten their sheet done yet will still have a little time to finish it up.

TheGlyphstone


Waldham

QuoteYour aspect stats look mostly good.  May I ask how you got the aspect’s Balance and Concentration skills so high?

Con + 10-> Concentration, for Balance, I made an error, I put strength modifier instead dex modifier. 

QuoteAlso, I only just remembered this template exists, but the Wendigo template from Fiend Folio seems like it would be extremely fitting for your character concept.  At CR +2, you’d probably have to trade in your half-dragon template to fit it in, which would lead to you losing 4 points in your Strength score, but you’d gain a lot of useful special abilities in return, including a much higher AC and an excellent flight speed.

Thanks for the idea but there are too surnatural abilities.

QuoteThat works.  I’ll also note that the Magic Item Compendium has rules for allowing certain common item effects (ability enhancers, save bonuses, that sort of thing) to be applied on to items that take up certain slots without having a price increase.  A graft doesn’t quite take up any normal item slots, but I’d be willing to still let you tack on a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength or Constitution to your combined graft for the basic item cost of 16,000 gp, if you wanted.
ok, it didn't include the third graft, is it right ?

QuoteHow’s your build coming along now, by the way?
I have a very bad flu since friday the last week. So I will try to finish all, tomorrow, Wednesday afternoon (in France).

Kunoichi

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on February 20, 2018, 02:11:39 PM
Huh, i missed the links going up.

It's in the NC:Exotic-System Small Groups forum.

Quote from: Waldham on February 20, 2018, 04:19:41 PM
Con + 10-> Concentration, for Balance, I made an error, I put strength modifier instead dex modifier. 

Ah.  I should note that at 8 HD, fiendish aspects are limited to a maximum of 11 ranks per skill, in that case.  It looks like most of your aspect's skills have 12 ranks put into them.

Quote
Thanks for the idea but there are too surnatural abilities.

You don't necessarily have to think of supernatural or even spell-like abilities as being magical in nature.  Your character is an outsider, a being from another plane of existence where things like good and evil are physical, tangible things, rather than abstract concepts.  Any supernatural or spell-like abilities you take could easily be your character simply interacting in strange ways with the laws of physics, rather than making use of any sort of magical ability.

Quote
ok, it didn't include the third graft, is it right ?

Yes, without the third graft, it looks like the price is low enough.

Quote
I have a very bad flu since friday the last week. So I will try to finish all, tomorrow, Wednesday afternoon (in France).

Alright, I'll look forward to seeing your finished stat sheet, then. ^^

Waldham

For the aspects, I saw that the base aspect, Zaer took 2 on 3 from the unique abilities/qualities from Archifiends and then two differents qualities/attack specials for each aspect.

So me also, I put 2 on 3 from the unique abilities/qualities from Archifiends in my base aspect, is it right ?

Kunoichi

Quote from: Waldham on February 21, 2018, 07:12:27 AM
For the aspects, I saw that the base aspect, Zaer took 2 on 3 from the unique abilities/qualities from Archifiends and then two differents qualities/attack specials for each aspect.

So me also, I put 2 on 3 from the unique abilities/qualities from Archifiends in my base aspect, is it right ?

The aspect also gains your type and subtypes.  In Zaer’s case, being an Obyrith means his aspects also got the Obyrith subtype, which comes with true seeing, a form of madness special attack, and some immunities and resistances.  In your case, your aspect gets the Yugoloth subtype, which comes with Yugoloth immunities and resistances.

And you get two special abilities from the base Archfiend, but they might need to be toned down a little to fit a CR 7 creature that an aspect is.  For example, for the regeneration special quality you took for Thiel, I’d say you should bump it up to -5, but keeping it at 9 for his aspect works.

Having it be countered by acid doesn’t work, however, since you’re immune to acid.  Having it be bypassed by good-aligned weapons or spells with the Good descriptor would probably be more appropriate.


Zaer Darkwail

Not sure of mechanics, but need some edit work (or rather additional work) on Thiel's background. Fine with that he was warrior who sought immortality and part of that he joined evil overlords loan his skills in return of information. It may be that Thiel became aware Soul Casket (or soul anchor as referred in your background) stored soul shard which could retrieved later if he died and became outsider (so he was aware before his death it was just matter of time to claim his memories).