Corruption of Champions (Pathfinder) - Interest Check - Closed

[Quezvax]

I would like to note that I'm stepping a bit out of my comfort zone here, but I'm willing to try pretty much everything this has to offer.

I've played CoC a bit, and found that it expanded my tastes, even if just a little.

[c0i9z]

I guess I might end up stepping out of my comfort zone in a few ways too, but that's fun too sometimes, and I think it's worth it.

[Saric]

Remember, you asked for thoughts. lol

I think that to sideline the main thread for scenes that a player or two may not wish to participate in is doing a bit of a disservice to the other players. Everyone knows going in that these scenes may take place, so it's a case of objecting to said content, but joining anyway. If the game was mainly non-sexual, going to a sidethread for those scenes would be one thing; it wouldn't interfere with the flow of the game and the majority of the group's desires are being met. Doing it for one or two players sensibilities, who are playing voluntarily with full knowledge... seems like an extra, unnecessary step. It would be easier to simply put the scene into spoilers on the main thread with the warning "Sexual Content Inside."

I want to be sure that everyone knows that I don't have a problem with anyone who doesn't want to participate in some of the potentially non-con scenes. I respect their decision and will do all I can to insure that they aren't drawn by anything that I do.I was just asking a question about how the scenes would be run under the circumstances.

...

I have no idea what you're talking about...  I was suggesting playing out each sex scene in a side thread and then adding it back into the main thread in a spoilers box or as a link so it only takes up one post. You then talk about sidelining the main thread for side scenes, when I just suggested removing them from the main thread... I'm honestly not sure if you misunderstood my suggestion or if I'm misunderstanding your post, but so far it sounds like you telling me I'm wrong before suggesting what I just suggested. :P

[Blinkin]

...

I have no idea what you're talking about...  I was suggesting playing out each sex scene in a side thread and then adding it back into the main thread in a spoilers box or as a link so it only takes up one post. You then talk about sidelining the main thread for side scenes, when I just suggested removing them from the main thread... I'm honestly not sure if you misunderstood my suggestion or if I'm misunderstanding your post, but so far it sounds like you telling me I'm wrong before suggesting what I just suggested. :P

Most likely a little of both of us misunderstanding the other. But, I wouldn't say you, or anyone is wrong.

As I understood it, the suggestion was to do the potentially objectionable scenes on a side thread, then link the thread into the main with a link. My suggestion was that it would be more straightforward to just put the potentially objectional material in spoilers on the main thread.  This way, if you want to read the potentially objectional material, it's there, if you don't, skip the spoiler part of the post.

Does that make any more sense? No one's wrong, it's just a different way of looking at it.

[Saric]

Most likely a little of both of us misunderstanding the other. But, I wouldn't say you, or anyone is wrong.

As I understood it, the suggestion was to do the potentially objectionable scenes on a side thread, then link the thread into the main with a link. My suggestion was that it would be more straightforward to just put the potentially objectional material in spoilers on the main thread.  This way, if you want to read the potentially objectional material, it's there, if you don't, skip the spoiler part of the post.

Does that make any more sense? No one's wrong, it's just a different way of looking at it.

I was saying to put a spoiler in the main thread regardless, just make it a pre-made rape scene if they don't want to take part, but one that anyone can read. But if they do want to play it out to do that in a side thread and just put a link to that thread or a transcript of what happened in the spoiler box in the main thread. That way the whole scene takes up one post in the main thread regardless of how it's resolved, but people can take their time playing it all out if they want without worrying about overshadowing the others.

Then have a second box with any transformations or stat changes or what have you so that people don't need to read through the whole post/side thread to find out what the long term effects were.

[Naughty Miss Adventure]

Just for the record, nothing in CoC actually squicks me out, lol.  My only concern is finding myself in a smut scene that I'm not prepared or uninspired to write (which is usually the case with spontaneous NC), which will probably cause me to stall or draw blanks in posting.

I don't want to complicate things for people (starting to feel like it has :-\) or bull my way in and force things to work in my favor; I just wanted to see about getting some options regarding the NC content since its posited there will be a lot - I'm perfectly happy to read them without problems and their actual presence won't ever disturb me.

[eBadger]

Great ideas and I think you stirred up a neat conversation, Naughty.  Also neat to see some people willing to stretch their experiences a bit!  Fantasy writing is a safe place to do things you wouldn't elsewhere, after all.

Blinkin, players would definitely not need to cut things out, as long as it didn't interfere with the flow of the game.  This would be an extreme game, in the appropriate forum, and Here Be Dragons, kids.   

So my thoughts on Content and Censorship:
-I would want to capture the tone of the game.  Adventurous, a little silly (cooter?), a lot playful and somewhat weird.  Erotic, but with a plot, characters, goals, a setting, and flow.  Violent, but not brutal, sometimes a bit unsettling but not disgusting.  I would cordially ask players to stick to that concept. 

-The game needs to move along.  I get that sometimes we want to spend 30 posts in an all-night binge of fuckery, but that's the sort of thing that destroys a game by driving out other players.  A decent and in-depth sex scene can be readily accomplished in 2-3 posts.  If it's longer than that, I think the best approach is to post everything game-related within that 2-3 post expectation, then ask your partner if they'd be willing to expand the scene in a separate, non-game thread (which, by all means, I'd love to see linked in our OOC chat - but not part of canon).  You can go in depth (pun intended), take all the time you want and spam away without delaying or cluttering the game itself. 

I'm still mentally slogging through the best way to approach the rest.  I suppose I see this game as a dub-con high fantasy adventure emphasizing mental and physical transformation with a dash of playfulness that will be utilizing the Pathfinder system. 

Contrast to, say, a dungeon crawl Pathfinder.  In a dungeon crawl, I might get bored by a certain hack and slash with a roomful of goblins, or carefully prodding a hallway for traps.  I might post a short, brief response to some of those, swing my sword, do a skill check, here's my roll and move along and that's totally fine from time to time.  But I wouldn't join a door kicker with the predetermined intention to skip over the combat with any monsters that aren't based on Norse legends. 

I get that not everything will hit everyone's buttons.  The only way it would is to ask players what surprises they want around each corner, and that obliterates the feel of the game.  I'm looking for players that, even if they aren't into the goo girl or mushroom monster or sentient cookware set can still see finding a way to be inventively erotic as a fun writing and role playing challenge.

So to try to more specifically address your questions, Naughty, if you're in a scene like that I'd say 1. try to think of a way to make it fun, 2. give feedback so I/other players have a chance to adjust things or give ideas, 3. zoom out and make a general post to keep things moving along.  'The randy cookware has it's way with me, with much spanking and a shocking waste of buttercream frosting.  After that I'm forced to scrub the copper pans to a high polish and sent back into the street wearing nothing but an apron and rubber gloves.'  Suggestive, fun, short, gets things moving to something else with roleplay potential. 

Does that make sense and help?

[Vergil Tanner]

A decent and in-depth sex scene can be readily accomplished in 2-3 posts.

I have to respectfully disagree on that point. With me personally, if I'm doing an in-depth, complex and emotional sex scene, it will last longer than 2 - 3 posts. I really like to get into my characters head and take my time, because getting it done in two posts seems rushed to me, like I'm not giving this the attention that it deserves, and I'm not exploring the changes of the character over time. EG, if we're doing Dub Con, one of the things I like to write is the characters slow realisation that they're enjoying it, the confusion that entails, and the conflict over whether to keep refusing because they don't want it...or whether to give in to the pleasure that it's providing. And I can't do that effectively over two or three posts, otherwise it gets cut short, or feels rushed. That being said,

If it's longer than that, I think the best approach is to post everything game-related within that 2-3 post expectation, then ask your partner if they'd be willing to expand the scene in a separate, non-game thread (which, by all means, I'd love to see linked in our OOC chat - but not part of canon).  You can go in depth (pun intended), take all the time you want and spam away without delaying or cluttering the game itself. 

I do agree that The Plot Must Move On, but declaring "Oh hey, you HAVE to finish this scene in two posts, and everything you do external to that two posts is Non Canon?" That's...doing a disservice to the writers involved, since you're saying that what happens outside the main thread isn't going to be reflected by their characters. It makes them feel cheated, in a way, that they didn't get to enjoy it and have it impact the game.
Personally, what I would suggest is the following:

Once a player "loses," have the beginning of the Dub Con happen, then "Fade to black," as it were, and come back after the scene has taken place and the Victor has wandered off somewhere. Meanwhile, there's an In-Canon Side Thread for the people who want to expand on those scenes without bothering everybody else. Not only does that keep all of the posts for that stuff in one place, it also makes sure that the players feel like their writing is being kept "In Canon," AND it helps drive up the Post Numbers so we could possibly get a Board sooner.

Just declaring that the scenes HAVE to be done in two or three posts, and that any expanded scenes are Non Canon? I don't think that's the way to handle it, and I know that if I was told "I don't care, you have to be done in three posts," I would start losing enthusiasm for that aspect of the game entirely, simply because I would feel rushed, like people were tapping their feet in impatience with me to get finished. Just my two cents, but...that's how I would feel, personally, if I was told that I had to hurry up and finish the scene regardless of how much I might want to expand and explore it.

I get that not everything will hit everyone's buttons.  The only way it would is to ask players what surprises they want around each corner, and that obliterates the feel of the game.  I'm looking for players that, even if they aren't into the goo girl or mushroom monster or sentient cookware set can still see finding a way to be inventively erotic as a fun writing and role playing challenge.

Well...just ask each player to make a brief list of Ons / Offs, or design a kind of Questionnaire that says "Are you into X, Yes No?" That way, you know what each player likes and dislikes, and can plan surprises adequately. Since obviously, if you hit a player with one of their Hard Offs, you might lose that player because they're struggling to write through something they don't enjoy. :-)

'The randy cookware has it's way with me, with much spanking and a shocking waste of buttercream frosting.  After that I'm forced to scrub the copper pans to a high polish and sent back into the street wearing nothing but an apron and rubber gloves.'  Suggestive, fun, short, gets things moving to something else with roleplay potential. 

I would argue that the scenario you just described is FILLED with Roleplay Potential, and would be very fun to write. Especially if there were other people there watching. >.>

[eBadger]

Good points.  The "2-3 posts" is a guideline, not a hard limit.  Also keep in mind that's after a battle, several posts which should be half seduction and encompass that conflict to give in that you're mentioning (that's what reaching 0 hp is going to signify).  At an expected post rate of 2+ per week, that could easily be a month real time spent on one encounter.  So I'm not insensitive to your concern, but I do think that sacrificing a little in the short term to keep the game flowing, active and alive is a benefit in the long term.  It's also possible to continue the sexy time while moving the plot ahead, which is all I'd ask: you can keep playing naughty maid, just do it while you continue to explore. 

The non-canon thing is for two reasons.  First, if it's part of the game then the other players need to be aware of it...which goes back to making that casual player who doesn't have a lot of time read through your 30 posts of orgasmic bliss.  Second, the game is moving along while you create those posts, and I'm not going to put myself in the position of trying to retcon how you didn't actually show up back at camp to help fend off imps, but were in fact being gang banged in the town prison after a night of drunken exploits got you arrested.  It's necessary to maintain a functional game.  But if stuff can be worked in easily, sure, I'm not going to exclude background or world building.  Basically, if you and your partner plan out a decent outline of what you want to play through, you'll be fine. 

And yes, an enchanted kitchen may have to make an appearance now  ;)

[Vergil Tanner]

Good points.  The "2-3 posts" is a guideline, not a hard limit.  Also keep in mind that's after a battle, several posts which should be half seduction and encompass that conflict to give in that you're mentioning (that's what reaching 0 hp is going to signify).  At an expected post rate of 2+ per week, that could easily be a month real time spent on one encounter.  So I'm not insensitive to your concern, but I do think that sacrificing a little in the short term to keep the game flowing, active and alive is a benefit in the long term.  It's also possible to continue the sexy time while moving the plot ahead, which is all I'd ask: you can keep playing naughty maid, just do it while you continue to explore.

Oh, I'm not saying that it should stay in the "Main Thread," as it were, just that saying that it needs to be over quickly might alienate people who would prefer to take their time. Sure, we can do some big points of seduction and temptation, but at the end of the day, the sex should conclude when the writers involved are comfortable for it to end, rather than at an arbitrary time limit. If you've built up this seduction over four or five posts, and then the sex is done in two? I dunno, that risks feeling like an anti-climax (no pun intended). i think there are better ways of doing it, honestly, that keeps the pace going but doesn't make writers feel pressured to get it "over with," as it were.

First, if it's part of the game then the other players need to be aware of it...which goes back to making that casual player who doesn't have a lot of time read through your 30 posts of orgasmic bliss.

I strongly disagree. First, just because it's Canon doesn't mean that the other players HAVE to know it happened. If there's no reason why their character would know it, why would the player have to know it? And if their character was directly involved with the scene, they should be reading along anyway? I GM a fairly big game with a lot of small side scenes, and yeah I read the posts to make sure rules are being followed, but a lot of the players don't pay attention to scenes that they aren't part of because it doesn't impact them...and when that scene comes up elsewhere, they learn about it in character. Second, if that's truly a concern, just have the writers involved post a general summary in the OOC, like "Oh by the way, she wandered into the woods and got anally destroyed by a Dire Minotaur" or something. No need to read the posts, just get a cliffnotes. That way, the stuff stays In Canon and the writer feels like they've actually contributed something to their characters ongoing development, but people aren't forced to read through if they don't want to.

Second, the game is moving along while you create those posts, and I'm not going to put myself in the position of trying to retcon how you didn't actually show up back at camp to help fend off imps, but were in fact being gang banged in the town prison after a night of drunken exploits got you arrested.

Well...no offence, but surely going off on a drunken bender and being gangbanged in the prison instead of being in the camp for the attack is the players choice, right? If they want to go off and do that and not be around for the Imps, you don't need to Retcon it...you just need to say something along the lines of "Anybody not in Camp has X time limit to get back there, and if you don't, you won't be in the scene at the start." Of course, they could always show up halfway through, and you work that in. But saying that the players HAVE to be where you want them to be kind of...removes player agency in a way, and you're stopping them from doing what they want to do. Because if you're gonna say "Well, all those side scenes? They're non canon." Why would the players do them in the first place? They're not contributing to the game, and they might as well go off and play One On Ones where they don't get excluded from Canon for not being where the action is. You give 'em some warning, and if they don't listen, well...they're not involved. And then they come back later and find everybody covered in Imp blood and cum and they're like "...the fuck happened here?!"

But if stuff can be worked in easily, sure, I'm not going to exclude background or world building.  Basically, if you and your partner plan out a decent outline of what you want to play through, you'll be fine.

Well, true, they'd need to come up with a decent framework for what they want, but that's just obvious. I think the bigger concern here is how much you, as a GM, will be writing these Seduction and Dub Con scenes? And if you are, what shape will they take, and where will they be? Will you have no interest in writing scenes longer than 2-3 posts? Because a fair amount of players might actively be wanting to savour the Non Con Scenes with the Monsters, in which case, will they still be considered Non Canon? I mean, if Character X has fought and lost against an Orc, and the Orc has dragged her behind a tree to rape her, you'd expect that to take some time. It wouldn't make sense for the Orc to rape her, and the character to be involved in the fight that happens five minutes after she's been dragged off, because she's been dragged off and is no longer there, no?


I just...think that trying to control how long people spend on each scene is the wrong way to go about it, because you risk rushing people through what they're enjoying, and that means that they might lose interest in the game altogether.

[Saric]

I just feel the need to say that I agree with Vergil on basically all points for the last two massive posts running. Especially when it comes to whether other players need to read every canon scene whether or not their there.

[Naughty Miss Adventure]

For myself, I'm perfectly happy with smut that finishes in 3-4 posts as opposed to one that drags on forever.

That said, I think the point ebadger is trying to make is that one person gets dragged into a smut scene that lasts 10 minutes in game at most, but in reality may take some days for someone who wants to play it to the hilt, so the rest of the players need to skip ahead back to camp rather than wait for those (actual) days to elapse - which leaves the smut writing player (potentially the GM as well) having to multitask between having the character back at camp whilst still doing their thing in the past timeline, which leaves the possibility that the end result of the smut may not match with what happens with the group.

I think.

[Vergil Tanner]

For myself, I'm perfectly happy with smut that finishes in 3-4 posts as opposed to one that drags on forever.

And that's fine! Nobody is forcing you to go into smut that takes longer than you'd like. I'm more thinking from the perspective of people who don't want Smut to be over that quickly; it's why One Rule For Everybody in this situation is going to upset SOMEBODY. So it should really be down to the individual players, and they shouldn't be "Penalised" for their decision over what they want to play.

That said, I think the point ebadger is trying to make is that one person gets dragged into a smut scene that lasts 10 minutes in game at most, but in reality may take some days for someone who wants to play it to the hilt, so the rest of the players need to skip ahead back to camp rather than wait for those (actual) days to elapse - which leaves the smut writing player (potentially the GM as well) having to multitask between having the character back at camp whilst still doing their thing in the past timeline, which leaves the possibility that the end result of the smut may not match with what happens with the group.

I think.

That can just be solved by having the Smut Scene in a side thread, and having the character pop up in-game after the sex would have finished, whilst they keep playing the Smut Scene in the other thread. You can write in two threads at once, after all, so long as you don't Paradox yourself. :P

[eBadger]

Oh, I'm not saying that it should stay in the "Main Thread," as it were, just that saying that it needs to be over quickly might alienate people who would prefer to take their time. Sure, we can do some big points of seduction and temptation, but at the end of the day, the sex should conclude when the writers involved are comfortable for it to end, rather than at an arbitrary time limit.

I'm only concerned about the 'main thread' here, and for that I disagree.  If we want to linger a bit longer on the sex I'm willing to discuss it; I do keep emphasizing that it's not a strict limit.  But it's not fair or healthy for one or two players to hold up an entire game, and the limit on how long they can do so will be somewhat arbitrary (although I prefer the term 'based on my experience'). 

I strongly disagree. First, just because it's Canon doesn't mean that the other players HAVE to know it happened. If there's no reason why their character would know it, why would the player have to know it?

Sure, if you agree that anything that takes place in those side threads won't involve other players in any way unless/until it comes up in the main thread.  Which is functionally the exact same effect as saying side threads aren't canon. 

Or is there some situation in your side smut thread that would absolutely have to create an impact on the reality of the main thread?

Second, if that's truly a concern, just have the writers involved post a general summary in the OOC, like "Oh by the way, she wandered into the woods and got anally destroyed by a Dire Minotaur" or something. No need to read the posts, just get a cliffnotes. That way, the stuff stays In Canon and the writer feels like they've actually contributed something to their characters ongoing development, but people aren't forced to read through if they don't want to.

Switch "OOC" to "main thread" and I think that's exactly what I'm saying. 

Post that line in the game.  It is canon.  You and your partner create a side thread to describe your anal destruction over plentiful posts with no time limit.  In the meanwhile, the game goes on. 

Well...no offence, but surely going off on a drunken bender and being gangbanged in the prison instead of being in the camp for the attack is the players choice, right?

This isn't about giving the player a choice; this is about the player deciding to do something different after the game has already moved past their choice.  "Retroactive continuity"

If they want to go off and do that and not be around for the Imps, you don't need to Retcon it...you just need to say something along the lines of "Anybody not in Camp has X time limit to get back there, and if you don't, you won't be in the scene at the start."

That would be the arbitrary time limit you mentioned earlier. 

And again...if a couple players wanted to keep going with their jail sex scene after posting to be around for those imps, what's your answer?  Tell them they can't?  Do you delay everyone else?  Try to retcon?  Or decide that if they try to drop a game changing event, you'll just ignore it?

how much you, as a GM, will be writing these Seduction and Dub Con scenes? And if you are, what shape will they take, and where will they be?

Still somewhat TBD, but my preference would be a mix of doing some myself and tasking out NPC's to players based on interest, particularly to players with characters that aren't very active at the moment. 

For myself, I'm perfectly happy with smut that finishes in 3-4 posts as opposed to one that drags on forever.

That said, I think the point ebadger is trying to make is that one person gets dragged into a smut scene that lasts 10 minutes in game at most, but in reality may take some days for someone who wants to play it to the hilt, so the rest of the players need to skip ahead back to camp rather than wait for those (actual) days to elapse - which leaves the smut writing player (potentially the GM as well) having to multitask between having the character back at camp whilst still doing their thing in the past timeline, which leaves the possibility that the end result of the smut may not match with what happens with the group.

I think.

Yes.  If you take three months of real time to write out your minotaur sex, that means the rest of the group needs to either wait three months to continue with the next scene, or we'd have three months worth of the main game thread that doesn't take into account how your minotaur sex ended. 

You can write in two threads at once, after all, so long as you don't Paradox yourself. :P

Except so often, people do. 



Summary: I'm familiar with the style you're describing.  It works well for very large games filled with disparate threads, where characters are all doing their own thing.  Creating some correlation of real time and game time is the only way to keep things moving forward in unison. 

In a smaller group game, in which the characters are expected to be more cohesive, my experience is that it leads to a few active players spamming walls of description of minutiae while other players are intimidated and drop out. 

[Vergil Tanner]

I'm only concerned about the 'main thread' here, and for that I disagree.  If we want to linger a bit longer on the sex I'm willing to discuss it; I do keep emphasizing that it's not a strict limit.  But it's not fair or healthy for one or two players to hold up an entire game, and the limit on how long they can do so will be somewhat arbitrary (although I prefer the term 'based on my experience'). 

Which is why I'm saying create a side thread or something. I agree with you that the sex shouldn't hold up the main plot, just advocating that people should have the option of expanding the sex scene without feeling penalised in some way.

Sure, if you agree that anything that takes place in those side threads won't involve other players in any way unless/until it comes up in the main thread.  Which is functionally the exact same effect as saying side threads aren't canon. 

Except it isn't. If you, as the GM, state that anything that happens outside the Main Thread is Non-Canon, then that disallows the players from mentioning what happened in that scene. It means that what happened in that scene cannot be referenced in the main thread, and it isn't allowed to impact other players because - by declaring it Non-Canon - you've stated that it didn't actually happen.
By saying that it's Canon, you're allowing for things that players did in side threads to come in and influence the group and the dynamic at later dates, and letting the players feel like their interpersonal drama and side adventures are actually helping to shape the narrative, which then helps them get invested. Saying that something is Canon and the other players don't know about it yet is very different to saying that it didn't happen and that it's an Alternate Universe of a Dream or something.

And hey, yeah, things that happen in that scene are sometimes going to have repercussions that impact the other players, because that's what happens in a group of people. Decisions that the other people don't know were made come back to influence future events. That's just a reality of interpersonal connections and drama, right? Sure, those players aren't DIRECTLY involved, but the repercussions of that scene will probably be relevant later on, if the players behave in a way that brings it up.

Functionally speaking, there is almost certainly a difference between the players not knowing and the thing never having happened in the first place. For one, if you say that those scenes are Non Canon, then anything that happened in that scene...never gets brought up again and has NO chance of influencing peoples interactions and future events. In which case...why bother writing the side scene at all?

Or is there some situation in your side smut thread that would absolutely have to create an impact on the reality of the main thread?

I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. But leaving the option open means that even if it doesn't, people feel like it COULD. EG, something completely unexpected happens in that side scene and, say, one character confesses something personal to another one, bringing them closer. If that scene isn't Canon, then they aren't allowed to act as if it did happen, because by your decree, it didn't. And that influences both characters going forwards.

Post that line in the game.  It is canon.  You and your partner create a side thread to describe your anal destruction over plentiful posts with no time limit.  In the meanwhile, the game goes on. 

That's all I'm saying. That people should be allowed to do that, HOWEVER, I'm suggesting that you make a specific thread for it, so everybody knows where it is, where it gets posted, and you have a handy dandy link so you can count how many posts have been made.
Besides, there IS the small matter of a Small Group only being allowed something like...what was it, two threads per player? If we create a new thread per scene, we will run out of thread allotment. Having one or two threads set aside specifically for that purpose stops that from happening.

This isn't about giving the player a choice; this is about the player deciding to do something different after the game has already moved past their choice.  "Retroactive continuity"

That would be the arbitrary time limit you mentioned earlier. 

And again...if a couple players wanted to keep going with their jail sex scene after posting to be around for those imps, what's your answer?  Tell them they can't?  Do you delay everyone else?  Try to retcon?  Or decide that if they try to drop a game changing event, you'll just ignore it?

Tell them that the scene isn't happening "in this world."
See, there's a difference between individually saying "This scene paradoxes, therefore it's non canon now post in the main thread you dumbdumb" and "All side scenes are non canon," which is what you said above when you stated that

"ask your partner if they'd be willing to expand the scene in a separate, non-game thread (which, by all means, I'd love to see linked in our OOC chat - but not part of canon)."

I'm simply arguing against making all sexytime outside of the Main Thread Non-Canon.

Except so often, people do. 

And as a GM, it's your job to make sure that they aren't. Believe me, I know it's a bit of a pain, but generally speaking (in my experience) so long as people know the guidelines and generally what's going on in the main thread...they tend to be able to avoid it, if with a few edits here and there.

Summary: I'm familiar with the style you're describing.  It works well for very large games filled with disparate threads, where characters are all doing their own thing.  Creating some correlation of real time and game time is the only way to keep things moving forward in unison. 

In a smaller group game, in which the characters are expected to be more cohesive, my experience is that it leads to a few active players spamming walls of description of minutiae while other players are intimidated and drop out. 

Which is exactly why I'm advocating a separate side thread, that is a unified thread rather than hundreds of disparate one-shot threads. Compiling the links and counting the posts and checking the appropriateness of the posts alone would be a nightmare. At least with one unified thread (maybe two, depending on how many people are posting at once and how quickly), you have it all in one place.

[Blinkin]

I'm starting to feel like this is going to be that railroad situation without any stops along the line. Part of why I roleplay is to develop and enjoy my character, but if there's a limit on what can be explored via a limit to scene posts... You are railroading the story.

Admittedly, there should be a point in each scene so that it doesn't get bogged down, but there needs to be enough time spent on the scene to make it worth writing in the first place. If the net result of a scene is, "I get fucked by 5 ogres and staggered back to the campfire" Where is the opportunity for character interaction, development, or even enjoyment in playing the scene. I can write a sex scene in 1 post, but that's cutting my partner out of it, unless I'm godmodding said character.It'll be the same result in 2 post. Then, as it's already been pointed out, if a side thread doesn't matter or impact the game, why bother in the first place?

I'm just thinking that there's a middle ground that isn't being considered, although in my current mental state, I can't think of it.

[eBadger]

If you, as the GM, state that anything that happens outside the Main Thread is Non-Canon, then that disallows the players from mentioning what happened in that scene. It means that what happened in that scene cannot be referenced in the main thread, and it isn't allowed to impact other players because - by declaring it Non-Canon - you've stated that it didn't actually happen.
By saying that it's Canon, you're allowing for things that players did in side threads to come in and influence the group and the dynamic at later dates, and letting the players feel like their interpersonal drama and side adventures are actually helping to shape the narrative, which then helps them get invested. Saying that something is Canon and the other players don't know about it yet is very different to saying that it didn't happen and that it's an Alternate Universe of a Dream or something.

I think you're drastically misinterpreting my "You're free to make side threads but I'm not going to deal with them" as not allowing things from side threads to ever be introduced into the game.  I'm always happy to see players expand on their characters as we move along, whether that comes from a side thread or not. 

The rest seems to just boil down to not forcing everyone to read it to make sense of the game and dealing with paradoxes, which we seem to agree on.

As to railroading, I admit to being rather floored by this entire issue.  I've never been in a group game where there wasn't, at some point, an expectation that players would wrap things up and move along.  It's rare to have a good game where a couple players monopolize the main thread with spam.  Some limitations are hardly unique to this game or my gming. 

Once again, this isn't a hard limit.  If everyone's involved and want to stay on a scene I'm more than happy to do so. 

[Vergil Tanner]

I think you're drastically misinterpreting my "You're free to make side threads but I'm not going to deal with them" as not allowing things from side threads to ever be introduced into the game.  I'm always happy to see players expand on their characters as we move along, whether that comes from a side thread or not. 

If I've misunderstood your position, then I apologise. But in my defence, I only had what you said to go off of, and the term "Non-Canon" has a specific meaning and connotations. I wasn't the first person to use that term, you were. I was just saying that declaring everything that happens in that side scene as "Non Canon" restricts peoples freedom to develop their characters and contribute to the world, and obviously I'm not the only person who took that as the meaning of what you said.

Again, if that's not what you were saying then I'm sorry.

As to railroading, I admit to being rather floored by this entire issue.  I've never been in a group game where there wasn't, at some point, an expectation that players would wrap things up and move along.  It's rare to have a good game where a couple players monopolize the main thread with spam.  Some limitations are hardly unique to this game or my gming.

I think the problem largely stems from the presentation of these limitations. In my perception, anyway, you haven't been entirely clear on what these limitations would be, how they would be enforced and how the game would be set up to move along nicely and yet give players the freedom to explore in their own way. For me, anyway, it's caused a decent amount of confusion because I'm still largely in the dark as to how the format of this game would actually take shape. But then, that might just be me. I've been known to be a little slow on the uptake on occasion. >.> I just want to make sure that if I go and write a side scene, that it won't be pointless. I also need to make sure I understand the expectations and rules going in, so I don't end up disappointed if what I want from the game isn't what is being offered, y'know?

[eBadger]

I meant canon in the sense of "an accurate and established part of the work".  Put another way: assume no one else has read your side thread; if something has bearing on the game, it needs to be mentioned in the game.  Also, if your personal thread conflicts with the game then the game wins. 

I'm not understanding at all where the assumption is coming from that players couldn't introduce their own ideas, material, background, or characterization, whether they've written a side thread about it or not. 

Again, I think it would help me greatly if you could provide a hypothetical situation where your freedom to develop your character is being restricted and I could give you a more specific response. 

I assume you mean limitations on posting?  My guidelines in a game are an expectation of 2+ posts per week (that seems very achievable for a casual player, and IMHO is about the low end for keeping a game moving forward fast enough to be interesting); I ask that players refrain from an excessive number of posts before either everyone else has posted, or 3-4 days have passed (I have been the player who logs on to find out the entire scene has been played through by the super active 60% and I never had a chance to contribute, which led to the question of why I was in the game, which led to leaving the game.  This guideline means that if everyone is on and posting, a game can go through a ton of action in a short period; but if someone has a couple busy days then they don't have to fear being left behind, or struggle through an intimidating wall of posts before they can write); I expect politeness between players,  a metagame effort to move the plot forward and keep the group reasonably cohesive; and the usual things about godmoding and other bad behaviors.  In a game like this I would expect and encourage some time for smut, but would politely ask the players to keep it to a reasonable duration in real time and quantity of spam so the delay doesn't become excessive or distracting. 

You can also check out my Aveline game.  Non smutty and I'd slightly tweak a few things, but the concepts are all there:
Rules
Game Play
OOC

[eBadger]

You're also welcome to look over my original CoC game, although as I mentioned before that game ran into a few issues (first, trying out a system new to all of us was pure hell, and second, I started the game with a "you are captured and won't be able to escape until next chapter, role play through that" situation that a couple players just weren't able to adjust to). 

Rules:

I expect two posts per week.  Please post even if your character isn't taking an action.  I'd prefer a couple paragraphs, but just a simple "Moloch continues to stare off into the red sky, unaware of the bloody skirmish occurring silently behind him" means that I can update without fear of skipping you. 

Please limit sex to 2-3 posts.  This is smut, but it's also a story.  If you want more, by all means create your own thread for it but let the game continue. 

I am not here to prod you constantly.  If you don't post, I will skip you after a reasonable delay; this might mean your character does nothing or is NPC'd.  A significant delay will result in dropping you, with a potentially sticky end. 

I will give some warning before moving on to a new chapter.  When I do, please bring things to a resolution (I will leave the thread open if anyone wants to keep going simultaneously to the next chapter, but I won't be posting there and may not pay any attention to further posts). 

No PVP without the other player's consent.  No god moding.  No violating others' O/O's.  Be respectful.  Generally, just be awesome to one another.   

I consider plot more important than rules.  I will sometimes streamline, hand wave, and so on.  Accept that it will all be in the interest of getting on to better and funner stuff.  I'm open to feedback or help pointing out a rule, but do it politely. 

All player dice rolls should be done on E's dicebot.

A header format will be provided; please use it!  I encourage bold or colored text for speech; please no glow text, I find it very hard to read. 

Also, sheesh but I was in a long post phase back then. 

[Vergil Tanner]

I'm not understanding at all where the assumption is coming from that players couldn't introduce their own ideas, material, background, or characterization, whether they've written a side thread about it or not.

Again, I think it would help me greatly if you could provide a hypothetical situation where your freedom to develop your character is being restricted and I could give you a more specific response. 

I don't think that's necessary. I was simply confused by your assertion that the side scenes would be "non-Canon," since that term has a specific meaning. I understand now that you were using it in a different way, but that wasn't clear until we had this discussion. As it stands, I believe I understand the position better in that the scenes WOULD be "Canon" so long as they don't conflict with or contradict what has been established in the Main Thread. However, I'm still not certain how you would police the "Limit" on Sex Scenes. How precisely would you expect these scenes to progress to a natural conclusion before the writers were necessarily ready to end it, and yet be continued elsewhere? Would the writers of said scene just say in the main thread "And then they fucked and wandered over ten minutes later," and open up a side scene where they expand on it? In which case, why not just make the Main Thread a Non-Smut Zone and have a specific thread for the Smut?

I think what I'm really unclear on at the moment is how precisely the smut will work, split over several threads. Can you give me an example of how the scene would be set up in a way that both resolves the sex in two or three posts, and yet leaves it open for an extended version of said scene to be played out elsewhere and yet still be consistent with what happened in the main thread?

[Blinkin]

I think that I understand things a little better, although I would prefer that a sparticular side thread be set aside for the smut and a little flexibility in the time/space continuum... however you spell it in the side thread. I'd agree that if a scene in the side thread runs too long, that there be a relative effect on the main thread, but for scenes that takes a few minutes, realistically, that it not have to mean that someone is left out of the action. As an example, Character A and Character B walks a few yards away from camp for a more private conversation...

The conversation may take as little as a minute, or perhaps as long as 10 minutes. Unless you intend that something happen every time the characters take a deep breath, this really doesn't effect the games time line. If you're going off to get gang-banged, then there's a question of whether that character is actually in a place to act in the game thread... but smut scenes, even for a futa, only last so long and if someone insist on doing a porn level 30 minutes of constant fucking, can be slipped into the "dead" moments that occur... If the characters are trying for a porn level 30 minutes... time passes.

I know that didn't make any sense at all, but...

On rules. I would ask that my own unbreakable rules be considered, as they will result in my disappearance very quickly.

1. No character will cause the death of another character, through action or inaction. This means that if a character attacks another character with the intent to cause serious injury or death, I'm gone.
2. No character shall steal from a companion character. This includes the profit at the expense of another character's misfortune. IE: You don't turn in a character for a reward.
3. No character will willingly betray his/her fellow party members via the passage of information to an opponent or aiding an oppoenent in combat.

These aren't particularly odifficult reqest to live with, but I've seen good, solid gaming groups fall apart because someone just had to violate one of them and the players object to the action. I've seen players scheme to turn parties in for a reward with the intention of "breaking them out" later and didn't bother to tell anyone that was the plan. I've seen players put their characters into positions that the only result would have to be a character's death and I've seen really, really bad feelings over inner-party theft for no better reason than, "It's what the alignment would do."

Anyway, I would request that these be included in the game's rules. I have a very, very hard time playing with people who like doing these things.

[eBadger]

I think those would all fall under no pvp without consent, pretty basic expectations, yeah.  Those experiences sound terrible! 

And I'll bite, Vergil.  What's your definition of canon?

[Vergil Tanner]

My definition of Canon is simply how it's used in relation to fiction as a whole by every author I've ever heard use the term. That is, "Something that is accepted as being officially part of the universe as something that happened or is accurate to events." EG, Star Wars; Revenge Of The Sith is Canon within the Star Wars Universe, but my Fanfic of Jar Jar being brutally murdered is Non-Canon. That is, not part of the official universe.

When you say that something is "Non-Canon," you are - by definition of the word in context - saying that it didn't happen in-universe and that its occurrence should be ignored because it didn't happen. Saying that a scene done outside the Main Thread is Non Canon is basically saying to those players "You can do what you want in that thread, because none of it actually happened in the main continuity of the game."

At least, that's how I interpreted it because that's what I understand the term to mean.

[eBadger]

Hmm.  Same definition, imho, I think you're just conflating 'unofficial' with 'didn't happen'.  Just because fan fiction isn't canon doesn't mean it couldn't happen, or influence a continuation, or be developed into an official supplement.