Trump has officially abdicated his role as "leader of the free world"

[Teo Torriatte]

I know there are those in other countries besides the USA who would argue that the US president was never the de facto leader of the free world to begin with, but like it or not, this has been the case at least since the end of WW2. The US president has long been looked to in order to provide leadership in whatever worldwide crisis was going on, for good or ill.

And given that, some would also argue that Trump was never a very good world leader, that he has been working on abdicating this solemn responsibility since his inauguration. In fact I would agree with that last point, but I still think it's worth noting that with his withdrawal from the JCPOA, Trump has completed his abdication of his role as a world leader, and once again put the US in the role of a rogue nation instead of the beacon of success and freedom it was once hailed as by most of the world.

I wasn't even this ashamed to have been born in this country during the Iraq war debacle, and as much as I disagreed with many of Bush's policies, I never even once thought to proclaim that he wasn't my president. But Trump is so far out of the mainstream that its still mystery to me how so many people were duped into voting for him.

History will likely judge this moment as a very dark day, and anyone who still supports him, if they will be honest with themselves, will all come to realize the horrible mistake they have been making in letting this farce of a presidency go on for as long as it has. This isn't, by any stretch, the only mistake that Trump has made, but it should be a wake up call that he cares nothing for historical norms or the rule of law, and makes decisions solely based on hatred and ego.

[gaggedLouise]

Trump made it clear from the start of his campagn that he didn't care for any idea of the US as the moral and political leader of the free world beyond the kind of power projection known as "gunboat diplomacy". He simply isn't invested in any idea of "soft power" and leadership founded on reason, long-term aims and free cooperation - the only kind of leadership he understands is that of raw force or being able to shut the mouth up nof another country. Yes, his withdrawal from the Iran agreement is one of the clearest expressions of this yet.

He's also not interested in trying to be logically or intellectually consistent, or even basically truthful. I think one of the main reasons for him to break with this deal was its being negotiated under Obama. Trump clearly wants to be the Un-Obama, to erase signature reforms, policy deals and statements of the Obama years, so for that personal reason he had to discard this deal - and mock it in public.

[elone]

In fact I would agree with that last point, but I still think it's worth noting that with his withdrawal from the JCPOA, Trump has completed his abdication of his role as a world leader, and once again put the US in the role of a rogue nation instead of the beacon of success and freedom it was once hailed as by most of the world.

One can only hope that the rest of the world will stand up to him and the power of the US. More and more Trump is destroying everything that Obama created. He campaigned on getting rid of the Iran "deal" and now has done so. He has surrounded himself with neocons who would be happy to go to war with Iran or in the least create regime change. Now the US, as you say, has become another rogue nation and joined Israel as having no respect for law or international affairs. This is much like the start of the Iraq war. Next it will be weapons of mass destruction accusations.

[Oniya]

Other than the 'Obama did it, so I'm going to un-do it' reason - which I doubt he's floating publicly, what is his beef with it?  I did a basic review of the terms, and you'd think the 'we can inspect your facilities and determine if you're really compliant' thing would be a pretty powerful tool.

[Deamonbane]

I may be paranoid, but I'm smelling Russian involvement.

[gaggedLouise]

Other than the 'Obama did it, so I'm going to un-do it' reason - which I doubt he's floating publicly, what is his beef with it?  I did a basic review of the terms, and you'd think the 'we can inspect your facilities and determine if you're really compliant' thing would be a pretty powerful tool.

He thinks they're always going to cheat the US and run an extensive atomic bomb programme underground anyway. I bet he thinks Saddam did the same in the years before the Iraq war.  It's like those US general staff people (General LeMay, for instance) who opposed the Test Ban treaty with the argument that "if we sign this, the Russians are going to test their nukes in secret. - Where? - They'll test them on the dark side of the moon!" (recalled by Robert McNamara in the film The Fog of War)  ;)

Also, he doesn't want the US to be restricted by treaties signed together with allies. I think he's basically against multilateral treaties, he prefers to do it one-on-one, or the US alone writing the entire rulebook and imposing it on everybody else.

[Formless]

I'm rather intrigued by this topic. As an individual who lives in a neighbouring country to Iran, how is this a terrible step?

[Lustful Bride]

I'm rather intrigued by this topic. As an individual who lives in a neighbouring country to Iran, how is this a terrible step?

Well the deal trump backed out of allowed International inspectors to go in and inspect facilities. While Iran could be building weapons in secret, having people walking around and look does make it harder. Now this will be made more of a problem if Iran really does try enriching uranium to weapons grade.

[Formless]

Well the deal trump backed out of allowed International inspectors to go in and inspect facilities. While Iran could be building weapons in secret, having people walking around and look does make it harder. Now this will be made more of a problem if Iran really does try enriching uranium to weapons grade.

I see.

Though the EU is still involved with the deal, no?

[Lustful Bride]

I see.

Though the EU is still involved with the deal, no?

Yes but without a major player itl be a decreased position. Plus there is also Russia sticking its fingers in everything and they might see Iran as an ally in the region and support it in turn for their interests.

[Formless]

Yes but without a major player itl be a decreased position. Plus there is also Russia sticking its fingers in everything and they might see Iran as an ally in the region and support it in turn for their interests.

That makes it much clearer.

Thank you, Lustful Bride.

[Lustful Bride]

That makes it much clearer.

Thank you, Lustful Bride.

You are welcome.

[Oniya]

Yes but without a major player itl be a decreased position. Plus there is also Russia sticking its fingers in everything and they might see Iran as an ally in the region and support it in turn for their interests.

I was surprised that T. would give up that 'major player' status.  Diva that he is and all.

[Lustful Bride]

I was surprised that T. would give up that 'major player' status.  Diva that he is and all.

Yeah, probably because his puppet master told him to pull out and continue to weaken US internally as well as its positon in the world while he rebuilds the soviet Union. I'm sure he would give T a nice pat on the head if he manages to get the US out of NATO.

[Tolvo]

I guess it shouldn't be too surprising given Trump's views and slogans of America First.

[Vekseid]

Yeah, probably because his puppet master told him to pull out and continue to weaken US internally as well as its positon in the world while he rebuilds the soviet Union. I'm sure he would give T a nice pat on the head if he manages to get the US out of NATO.

I don't think this is even a Trump thing. The Republicans opposed this pretty hard, as does the Israel lobby. Putin is not the mastermind behind everything - the world has a lot of players and Trump is getting played by a lot of powerful people.

[Missy]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised of Trump just decided to watch Nyetenahu's presentation and jumped to conclusions based solely on that. It would fit in his character, he falls on the lowest end of human intelligence, I only half joke that he measures IQ's the way he measures his favorite sport.

[gaggedLouise]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised of Trump just decided to watch Nyetenahu's presentation and jumped to conclusions based solely on that. It would fit in his character, he falls on the lowest end of human intelligence, I only half joke that he measures IQ's the way he measures his favorite sport.

Me neither, but of course Netanyahu is a close ally of Trump's and I think Trump had already decided way back that Iran were cheating or trying to cheat on the deal.

Iranian president Rouhani hinted that they will remain within the deal for now, and several top people from various EU countries pledged to try to come up with a package that would make this sustainable over time - one critical point will be how far Trump is determined to sanction European (and other western or Russian) companies and government agencies that continue trading with Iran.

[RedRose]

Methinks Europe will either bail out, or just be around and not too involved. Many people there just support or opposite it because they like or hate Trump, or for personal reasons...

[midnightblack]

Methinks Europe will either bail out, or just be around and not too involved. Many people there just support or opposite it because they like or hate Trump, or for personal reasons...

If you're referring to the nuclear agreement, I think the common interest of both Iran and Europe is to keep it going, due to the simple reason that there's a lot of money involved, which I don't think was the case with the US.

What worries me is that, as much of an unqualified clown as Trump may seem to be, I still don't think that such decisions come on a whim, without the back-up of intelligence services. Probably something fishy and very serious is happening in Iran.

[Sara Nilsson]

If you're referring to the nuclear agreement, I think the common interest of both Iran and Europe is to keep it going, due to the simple reason that there's a lot of money involved, which I don't think was the case with the US.

What worries me is that, as much of an unqualified clown as Trump may seem to be, I still don't think that such decisions come on a whim, without the back-up of intelligence services. Probably something fishy and very serious is happening in Iran.

Then why is he the only one acting on it? Sorry I am not buying that, I think it is as simple as.. Obama did this, so must be torn down. And Israel is for it so I will do it. (See the move of the embassy).

[midnightblack]

Then why is he the only one acting on it? Sorry I am not buying that, I think it is as simple as.. Obama did this, so must be torn down. And Israel is for it so I will do it. (See the move of the embassy).

I'm afraid the grand schemes of the world elude me, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't believe he is acting out of spite/stupidity or even being played by anything aside of a very palpable interest. He probably knows exactly what he's doing. And yes, Benny's in it as well. It appears that the shift in global order is tending towards a renewed US-Israel cooperation and a dissolution of the transatlantic partnership.

[gaggedLouise]

I'm afraid the grand schemes of the world elude me, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't believe he is acting out of spite/stupidity or even being played by anything aside of a very palpable interest. He probably knows exactly what he's doing. And yes, Benny's in it as well. It appears that the shift in global order is tending towards a renewed US-Israel cooperation and a dissolution of the transatlantic partnership.

Nah, he's acting guided by a narrative that he has mentally and politically invested in for years. And Netanyahu is his close ally and friend: that's enough for Trump to trust whatever Netty tosses up into view.

[Lustful Bride]

Saudi Arabia seems worried about Iran now.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/saudi-arabia-set-to-pursue-nuclear-weapons-if-iran-restarts-program/ar-AAx24Au?ocid=spartandhp&ffid=gz

Its both funny and sad that the current state of the world is matching the Endwar novels, the UK separating from the EU, Russia becoming the power it once was, Iran and SA both threatening to go nuclear and the US alienating itself from the EU and its former allies. Either life imitating art, or we really are just that predictable as a species.

[Iniquitous]

Saudi Arabia seems worried about Iran now.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/saudi-arabia-set-to-pursue-nuclear-weapons-if-iran-restarts-program/ar-AAx24Au?ocid=spartandhp&ffid=gz

Its both funny and sad that the current state of the world is matching the Endwar novels, the UK separating from the EU, Russia becoming the power it once was, Iran and SA both threatening to go nuclear and the US alienating itself from the EU and its former allies. Either life imitating art, or we really are just that predictable as a species.

We humans are that damn predictable.