Very Interested in Running A White Wolf style game (Any Welcome)

[Krysia]

So yes, Krysia is like fiending to run something in the World of Darkness. But not New WoD. I am very old school and prefer running or playing in the old system.

I can run anything from werewolf to vampire. My preferred system is werewolf and I'd gladly run (not play in) a good old fashioned Sabbat vampire game.

Hopefully I can get people to agree on something. :D

[Ixy]

Thank you for taking the proactive approach of offering to run a game.  I took a look at your profile and, while we may not concur on everything, it would be great seeing your approach and writing as an ST in this kind of game.  We don't line up on all points, but it's refreshing to see that you feel the way you do about specific story elements and player behaviors.

As exciting as a great White Wolf game is, I'm also a little apprehensive about the huge variety of game-styles that could emerge from this kind of open-ended offer... like you, power-gaming is not my interest, and with White Wolf there's usually a mad-dash to play the Noctuku-Shadowlord Abomination Technocracy Mummy or some shit, so it's reassuring that you're not having any of that. 

Some of us get a good deal of exposure to White Wolf through larping, and the social/societal/power-structure aspects of most venues-- while great fun in those settings-- don't seem that they'd translate very well to the kind of small-group game that usually works best on E.   As for other elements, White Wolf has survived for years because it's the emo-players' wet dream-- most venues are loaded with personal drama, mystery, intrigue, surrealism-- that kind of stuff MAKES a WW game, and that's why I'd love to play.

I'd like to join a small group, quick pace, moody, description-heavy, and low-powered game... there's an awesome group-game Apocalypse variant going on right now in E, but I got a little overwhelmed with it and the directions it was going in. 

(TL/DR: I'm interested, depending on how you decide to go with story and group)

[Starlequin]

I've tried literally since i joined E to participate in a WoD game, but I haven't managed it yet. This one looks promising though. Would it be strictly Werewolf / Vampire / whatever book is decided on, or would / could different books be used? I've been wanting to play a Mage or a Geist character for ages now, but if a Vamp or were would be preferred I have no problem running one of those creatures (although i don't think i have any books for Werewolf atm). I also don't know much difference between old and new WoD, but I can pick it up quick, lol.

[fallensaviour]

I've tried literally since i joined E to participate in a WoD game, but I haven't managed it yet. This one looks promising though. Would it be strictly Werewolf / Vampire / whatever book is decided on, or would / could different books be used? I've been wanting to play a Mage or a Geist character for ages now, but if a Vamp or were would be preferred I have no problem running one of those creatures (although i don't think i have any books for Werewolf atm). I also don't know much difference between old and new WoD, but I can pick it up quick, lol.

for starters, geists didnt exist.  also, there was very little balance between the different supernaturals, to the point one werewolf pc would be very difficult for a party of vampire pcs to take down without preperation.  and werewolves tended to hunt in packs.  overall the nwod is more balanced, old wod has more flavor.

that said i can roll bone gnawer or sabbat if need be :D

[Krysia]

for starters, geists didnt exist.  also, there was very little balance between the different supernaturals, to the point one werewolf pc would be very difficult for a party of vampire pcs to take down without preperation.  and werewolves tended to hunt in packs.  overall the nwod is more balanced, old wod has more flavor.

that said i can roll bone gnawer or sabbat if need be :D

Personally thought nWoD and 4th Ed were on par with each other for dulling down the systems for people to play. No offense to players of both but I found them -too- easy and they lacked the challenge.

Granted with that said oWoD has it's own issues as well. They had rules in books for things and another ruling on the same thing in another book that totally blew what the other book said out of the water. There were way to many contradiction in the system. It just got even worse when they went to revised edition. They had so many books that pointed to the old system yet told us those books were "out dated".

With some interest in the game maybe I should put out my proficiencies with the systems.

100% proficient with Sabbat/ Base VTM/Independents 
50% proficient with Cam (Used to LARP it but didn't read the revised book - I went for evil)

90% proficient with Werewolf/Fera (Combat still gets me but I have books for reference)

60% proficient with Sorcerers (I actually grasp the concept of them better then Mage for some reason)

50% proficient with Changeling (read the book - I can fake the story just not combat)

40% proficient with Hunter (Usually a lot better at doing imbuing scenes then running the game)

30% proficient with Mage (I can build a character LoL. The person who was teaching me ditched on me)

20% proficient with Vampire Victorian Age (I would LOVE to play in a game like this. Tried it once ended up being a mortal game)

0% proficient with Wraith
0% proficient with Mummy
0% proficient with Demon
0% proficient with Kindred of the East
0% proficient with Dark Ages
0% proficient with Wild West

[fallensaviour]

thats the problem with game balance, it usually makes things duller but i find the story in owod better and the mechanics in nwod better...that said i usually play owod :D


though, new changling i find more interesting than what i've read of old...what with being angsty and a ptsd metaphor

[Vandren]

Potentially interested, depending on RL time and where this goes.

to the point one werewolf pc would be very difficult for a party of vampire pcs to take down without preperation. 

That's sorta the point.  Werewolves in WoD are combat monsters (even the non-combat monster ones); Vampires in WoD are social schemers, they aren't meant to be combat monsters (except for some young Sabbat -older Sabbat become schemers - and a couple clans like the Assamites - who often become schemers anyway because most of their enemies are).  The Werewolves have a "live fast, die young" lifestyle combating the Wyrm and defending Gaia; the Vampires have a "it wil ltake 80+ years for this plan to come to fruition, but I have all the time in the world" lifestyle plotting against each other and the Antedeluvians (who create plots that take centuries or more to bear fruit).  In short, it should take a lot of preparation and careful thought before any Kindred consider taking on a Garou, there's a reason the Kindred stick to the cities and avoid venturing into the space between urban centers (and it's not just the ease of finding kine).

[fallensaviour]

well, yes but they were able to put across the same sense while toning down the werewolves in nwod.

[Krysia]

Potentially interested, depending on RL time and where this goes.

That's sorta the point.  Werewolves in WoD are combat monsters (even the non-combat monster ones); Vampires in WoD are social schemers, they aren't meant to be combat monsters (except for some young Sabbat -older Sabbat become schemers - and a couple clans like the Assamites - who often become schemers anyway because most of their enemies are).  The Werewolves have a "live fast, die young" lifestyle combating the Wyrm and defending Gaia; the Vampires have a "it wil ltake 80+ years for this plan to come to fruition, but I have all the time in the world" lifestyle plotting against each other and the Antedeluvians (who create plots that take centuries or more to bear fruit).  In short, it should take a lot of preparation and careful thought before any Kindred consider taking on a Garou, there's a reason the Kindred stick to the cities and avoid venturing into the space between urban centers (and it's not just the ease of finding kine).

Well that also all depends on the sect you're from too for the vampires. Sabbat tend to hunt things for sport/pleasure then just being well planned. I think it's very funny to have a bunch of newbie shovel heads going out thinking they can take on a, mind you starting level, werewolf because they think there shit don't stink and they can live forever.

I tended to get more into the sabbat because they were all about being rather dumb. No offense to players who play them, but it was what they did. They didn't care what people said about what they did they just did it to be fun and let the "leader" clans deal with politics if they felt like it.

[fallensaviour]

of course the sabbat that live past that stage are dangerous fucks... because they get into that complete monster for the "greater good" mindset and tend to be better chessmasters than even the camarilla

[Jin]

Don't know much about the Sabbat Myself. I am interested But would tend to lean more towards Independents if playing Vampire. I would Prefer Werewolf though

[Sabriel]

Hello

This looks very interesting to me, I love old world of darkness it is positively my favorite system when there is a group that understands the setting and such.  I like most of the settings although I was first introduced to the game through Werewolf and have always loved it, although mostly for the points that most seam to forget or ignore about the game.  I would be glad to be involved in either a werewolf or vampire game equally although like Ixy I would have to say that group makeup would be a strong influence on my decision, but then having read your views I think that would likely not be a problem.

I am not a big fan of crossover It only tends to lead to problems and make the world seam more like the world of Disney than the world of darkness with how most end up handling it. 

I do also have a suggestion if you are going to do werewolf, a story that begun just after the first change or during it could be great over a forum.  It would be very interesting to go through the characters change and introduction to Garou society and how they come to terms with and finally accept it etc, then of course there is the first pack and the rite of passage all of which is such great stuff to do which is often simply skipped.  It's in a way a bit like skipping the whole Sabbat embrace procedure sometimes it is such a great potential for RP and story sometimes, and yet it often gets overlooked and it is one those times that characters will remember and will likely have some influence upon them for the future.  Maybe more to do with trauma and brain damage, disfigurement, memories of being locked in a box, chewed on by a bear, morgue rampages or name calling in the Sabbat's case  :P   

[Arcadia]

I would be very interested in playing in an oWoD game~

Well, ok, I'm not super into the Sabbat, but I'd love to play Werewolf or Mage, especially if there's lots of umbral adventure! Those two games are among my five favorite RPGs ever. And don't worry too much about Mage mechanics; they are on the complex side but actually playing a game helps them become much more clear. At least, running a game taught me a ton about them. Speaking of, I have a 1on1 Mage game here I need to update...

[Senti]

Personally I am a werewolf girl. Though happy with Changling or mage, personally though i dont mind vampire  Cam style I have too many bad experiances playing sabbat, and dont enjoy it at all.

(I would like to say I actually like NWoD. too)

[Krysia]

So I'm seeing that most people would enjoy a werewolf or a vampire game.

I'm also seeing that some people want to go through the embrace of a kine or first change stages of a werewolf.

Let's work with these 2 ideas for now. If we do the embrace of a vampire into the sabbat it's not going to be pretty at all and I'm not going to lie each character has a chance of dying from the get go when you get buried with 1 blood point in your body. The sabbat aren't pretty at all when it comes to embracing their random shovel heads. The other aspect of the sabbat is most times they either run lone or in packs. They do have a very spiritual nature in a sort of "i keel you" nature. They usually only accept other vampires that don't piss them off. Hardly keep any ghouls (accept for a few Revenants) and if they do they're abused and used.

Now the Werewolves on the other hand most go through there change young. Around the time puberty hits an they have a stressful time with there body in life. Now that's not all of them cause I know of a werewolf having his first change at 28. Very late but it still happened, his life wasn't so stressful and something triggered it late in life. I wouldn't mind doing a pre-change game just keep in mind E's rules about ages. I don't see someone say 16 hanging around someone 30 all the time. Also werewolves' first change aren't anything to be taken lightly. Lots of innocents killed in the process and each tribe takes care of their own in their own way when the change happens. Not a lot of cubs get to interact with other tribes until around the time of their rite of passage. Glasswalkers for example usually toss new cubs into a gauntlet right away, usually with in 2 days of their first change to see if they can handle being a true Garou. If they handle the gauntlet/mission they were given they gain there rank right away. If not then they will get group training with metis and lupus of the tribe.

[Vandren]

Well that also all depends on the sect you're from too for the vampires. Sabbat tend to hunt things for sport/pleasure then just being well planned.

That's why I included the exception for young Sabbat. :D

[fallensaviour]

well...i'd probably roll an independent if we did a vampire game, unless thats a problem.

and i'm prolly going to roll a wiseman type bone gnawer if we go puppies :D

[Xanatos]

I'd be interested in a Sabbat game. I've tried playing in a few, but they kept dying. I do, have a few issues, however. Maybe someone could explain them away? I love the setting and the mood, but some of White Wolf's choices/game mechanics make zero sense and in some aspects, ruin the game for me. Perhaps if they were addressed, I could gain even more interest. These issues are below.

The Vaulderie, while in concept it is interest and sets the Sabbat apart from Camarilla, in game mechanics I find that it would control my characters action more than I would like. The whole point of a PC is to be able to decide how the character acts/reacts to other PC's and the world around them. With the Vaulderie, that essentially is taken away from the PC. You now have to like your fellow Sabbat (depending on strength of roll regarding a player). I'm not a trouble maker, I hate party conflict, but tension between players is fine, so long as it doesn't lead to conflict - basically I like it natural and all choice, rather than forced.

The thing I never understood about the power housing werewolves explanation for "so called balance" versus the scheming vampires, plan everything, is that game stats random luck never balances out. Werewolves are purely and simplistically more powerful and would almost always beat the average PC team (I say average, so long as the party is not playing min/maxed Tremere and what not). Actually, it seems that just about any race in OWoD can beat a vampire... Its actually kind of silly. What is the point of a vamp if even a Human can take one on (hunter, even with the help of some magic)? Underworld anyone? (I loved Underworld mind you, but in the first one, vampires were pathetic excuses for supernatural beings)

Then you have a vampire's aversion to fire that is so unrealistic that it is insane. Fire affects them no different than a Human, yet they suddenly go through a (completely none existent) mental change that causes them to panic at the mere sight of fire. I personally have done more dangerous things with fire than it takes to turn a badass vampire into a whimpering school girl. Most people won't even give a roaring bonfire a second thought, yet a bonfire is one of the highest fear rolls to make. Sense, this makes none.   

[Krysia]

The Vaulderie, while in concept it is interest and sets the Sabbat apart from Camarilla, in game mechanics I find that it would control my characters action more than I would like. The whole point of a PC is to be able to decide how the character acts/reacts to other PC's and the world around them. With the Vaulderie, that essentially is taken away from the PC. You now have to like your fellow Sabbat (depending on strength of roll regarding a player). I'm not a trouble maker, I hate party conflict, but tension between players is fine, so long as it doesn't lead to conflict - basically I like it natural and all choice, rather than forced.

Well first the vaulderie is an optional rule in the sabbat book. Nothing says we have to actually use it. But at the same time there are benefits to having the vaulderie performed. It means you can't be blood bound to someone else and have them control you the same way. Now with that said the vaulderie has several things you can interpret from it. Think of Wolverine and Scott Summers from the x-men. In a way the team has a vaulderie. They both hate each other with a mad passion but if something came up and either one of them were hurt you know the other would help. In that it's not that you guys can't have your own thoughts/emotions towards a person in the game and PC tension is good for somethings but if say the pack was attacked you would have their back. If I do use the vaulderie system for my game I'd probably use a house rule of it only being well a pack bonding ritual and you couldn't be bound... oh *evil grin* and to dish out Viss here and there. >.> And also with that said I do use Viss as a sort of disease.

The thing I never understood about the power housing werewolves explanation for "so called balance" versus the scheming vampires, plan everything, is that game stats random luck never balances out. Werewolves are purely and simplistically more powerful and would almost always beat the average PC team (I say average, so long as the party is not playing min/maxed Tremere and what not). Actually, it seems that just about any race in OWoD can beat a vampire... Its actually kind of silly. What is the point of a vamp if even a Human can take one on (hunter, even with the help of some magic)? Underworld anyone? (I loved Underworld mind you, but in the first one, vampires were pathetic excuses for supernatural beings)

Actually werewolves can be taken down by a vampire. I'm not insulting anyone but anyone who plays -smart- as a vampire can and will take down a werewolf. :) I've seen it done. There is a melee specialty called Parry that works wonders against a werewolf claws.

Then you have a vampire's aversion to fire that is so unrealistic that it is insane. Fire affects them no different than a Human, yet they suddenly go through a (completely none existent) mental change that causes them to panic at the mere sight of fire. I personally have done more dangerous things with fire than it takes to turn a badass vampire into a whimpering school girl. Most people won't even give a roaring bonfire a second thought, yet a bonfire is one of the highest fear rolls to make. Sense, this makes none.

Their fear of fire comes from the fact that it is one of the only ways to make a vampire dead dead, irony at it's greatest. Yes I know a vampire can die from many other ways but the quickest way to spook them and make them go poof is to well toss them in fire. The Sabbat on the other hand actually have games of chance where they actually do things called fire dances.

[fallensaviour]

yeay vissicitude as a desiese...in that case i might play a torrie antitrib who has contracted vissc :D

[Krysia]

yeay vissicitude as a desiese...in that case i might play a torrie antitrib who has contracted vissc :D

It would have to be treated as an out of clan dissy at that point. If you do it through a vaulderie in game there is a chance to catch it as in clan. My serpent of the light got it that way and only pays 5x current for it instead of the 7x.  :D

[fallensaviour]

heh, my other choice for vampire was regular variety setite :D

[Krysia]

heh, my other choice for vampire was regular variety setite :D

Yea you find them usually as independents. :) The serpents of the light are a might bit nutty in my opinion - I look at them as the Trolls in WoW. xD "Stay away from the VooDoo.."

[fallensaviour]

Yea you find them usually as independents. :) The serpents of the light are a might bit nutty in my opinion - I look at them as the Trolls in WoW. xD "Stay away from the VooDoo.."

well...i'd probably roll an independent if we did a vampire game, unless thats a problem.

just saying :P  and regular setites are usually independent or cam...though both will drop everything to murder the fuck out of a serpent of the light


edit: also something i threw together yesterday and is tangently related to this :D warning: spoilers for game of thrones http://diy2.despair.com/spage/9968568.html

[Krysia]

just saying :P  and regular setites are usually independent or cam...though both will drop everything to murder the fuck out of a serpent of the light


edit: also something i threw together yesterday and is tangently related to this :D warning: spoilers for game of thrones http://diy2.despair.com/spage/9968568.html

Yea but that's like saying the assamites are welcomes in the cam. >.> Rarities I swear are priceless. My favorite is a Lasombra Anti.... <-- long line a dots not willing to post. xD I don't mind rolling the indies, but I like evil more personally.

[fallensaviour]

setites are pretty goddamn evil...what with being one of the few groups activly trying to end the world

[Ixy]

yeay vissicitude as a desiese...in that case i might play a torrie antitrib who has contracted vissc :D

this is kinda what I meant earlier.

[fallensaviour]

OH DEAR GOD ITS A TORRIE IN HORRID FORM RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN

[Krysia]

this is kinda what I meant earlier.

I wouldn't of allowed it anyway. Goes with that whole power gaming thing. :)

[Starlequin]

Seeing as this seems be drawing a lot of interest from WoD vets (and as a near-total newbie, I have no idea what the hell a lot of those references mean), I'm gonna go ahead and withdraw my interest. Hope your game goes well.

[Ixy]

Starlequin-- may I suggest that you don't give up on it just yet?  It's quite possible that you might enjoy it even more that way.  The game works great for those who know little about the setting, and all this chatter about rare clans and such is really not what the game will necessarily involve.  Part of the fun of the game is learning it from the inside... I remember my first GOOD larp, I knew almost nothing about the game, so I played an independent.  I knew that there was a power structure, and I knew the basic rules (don't make enemies, be polite, introduce myself to my high-ranking clan members and visit the prince).  I had the best damn time because I was making out in the bathroom with someone who, unknown to me, was a hunter in disguise and tried to kill me :D  My character barely survived, but when I told my clan they hauled me around and introduced me to the Sheriff, the Keeper of Elysium, the Seneschal, the Prince, and I got to see "vampire justice" done to the hunters.  It was amazingly fun and I learned it in-game, the way it was really intended.

[fallensaviour]

hmm...is there like a form one has to fill out to make out with ixy in a bathroom?

also, it makes for a better learning experience, especially with a fresh turned character

[Krysia]

My first experience with vtm was with a friend of mine who had me play a 13th gen. God my character (torrie whore) got creamed by the prince in the city. This is also where I learned power gaming and why it's so bad. They guy who taught me the game was playing a 3rd gen toreador at the time. I had no clue that it was a bad thing. I didn't know what it was and well that only clan founders could be 3rd gen. So in the end I came out with a better knowledge of the game by being power gamed. Also the reason why I don't like it, it took the fun out of the game cause his character couldn't be beaten.

[Jin]

My first experiences in white wolf were a lot like that. I think it's much more fun to play a character over a long period of time and build them up instead of start off at the top

[Sabriel]

This is going to sound totally wrong :P

But my first game I was introduced to was Werewolf, which is not unusual in itself but the group that I joined to play and learn with where doing a Black Dog Black Spiral Dancer game.  So I was introduced to Werewolf from the other side of the coin, now it was a very mature game (And no it was not at all about erotic things or orgies which some seam to think the wyrm is all about) and I think in a sense it was what made me see how storytelling could be done from any angle and that just because you can do things or introduce certain elements does not mean you should do them because the fit and make sense.  It was a very weird game but it was also one of the most memorable and enjoyable games I have done, I also don't like and never had much of the "Evil" obsessed character drive to me characters are characters and well I try go with what makes sense. Ive never thought that playing weird stuff or antagonist type characters was a great idea, a lot of things in white wolf I sort of look at and think those are not really meant for play or they are but only under specific conditions.   

I totally agree with what Krysia said about the whole balance of creatures, there is differences between things and some can cause problems. But then the games are designed more to be focused on one particular type at time not massive crossover games, each game has its own themes and stories and works well with certain elements better than others.  A good storyteller can easily work with those balances too, and they are not as of kilter as everyone would make out there often exaggerated.  You just have to use some common sense and be clever about things, vampires are not weak they live forever and can learn powers that are amazing and yet cause no real problem for them, where as Mages pay a price for there powers and can suffer for them and there also mortal and far more squishy than a vampire.  Werewolves are not a tough as everyone likes to think they are as well, they can be just as squishy as mortals even without the use of Silver.  It is all about roleplaying and storytelling in the end as well and well I don't know about other Storyteller's but personally when I ST a game I take care of balance issues and such and don't let them spoil the story, I certainly don't sit there flicking through books looking for the "badest" antagonist that could rip things to shreds or outclass them and then shoehorn the players into facing it without any chance :P  Life does not work like that, the best does not mean the best there are always possibilities and ways in which the meek may triumph over the mighty. I mean that is the whole point of the Masquerade, Veil etc to stop that hehe hello major game theme :P

If the games where called as some few people think of them or portray them I often think it would be more like such...

Vampire: The Evil Emo , Werewolf: The Furry Death Monkeys, Mage: The Abuse of systems, Demon: Actually I am an Angel and nice really, the time and torment spent in hell had no effect on me at all and I smell of cookies!, Hunter: Did we really need new rules for more of us, Changeling: Lets pretend it really is the World of Disney Yay, Wraith: Why does everyone always forget about me.     

But then without them really would not be as fun because we have nothing to laugh at or roll our eyes, one persons poison is another's medicine afterall ::)

Personally I always feel its never the game(s) its who you play it with everyone is looking for different things so its best to find those who think alike and like the same things. Hehe often with WOD there are several factions and ideas on those things lots of people view and see the games differently :-)

[Senti]

If I can put in my tuppence worth?  I have been playing WoD for years, (Goodness we still have the first ed soft back of Vampire and werewolf…and a bunch of others but that’s by the by.

As a RL group at the moment we play a lot of games including NWoD. However something comes through in our gaming it is that the majority of these supernatural creatures were once human. So they had jobs like being a binman … a postman…an office worker…a salesman…a bus driver or cab driver…a stay at home mum …a cleaner… Need I go on? Often I find folks want to play ‘cool’ characters, to be honest in my opinion it’s actually a lot of fun playing characters like this rather than starting out as ‘special’.

Still that’s my tuppence worth.

Think of a demon that was a school janitor that watched crap daytime TV, mixed with that was a call centre PC aid that gamed all night and peed in a bucket so not to miss anything, and the bus driver that was divorced and had no money as well as other issues. It was a really fun game in a very dark way.

As you see I think some normality works really well in WoD.

[Sabriel]

Think of a demon that was a school janitor  that watched crap daytime TV

That right there is like the perfect concept image of the type of person I pictured when I first read the books and theme :P Just the sort of person who might like have the gap/hole whatever to allow a demon to claw there way in and take over.

I think Hunter lends itself well to the types of characters your suggesting too Senti, I mean that generally seams to be the theme it suggests too, but nobody usually goes with that. I always wanted to play an Old lady hunter who was more of a social and caring character and provided for others and well tried to help out younger hunters in her own way, odd concept I know hehe had this idea of her running a sort of safe house and like being all nosy and watchful arranging like community meetings and such keeping tabs twitching curtains.

But well thats not really on topic is it. 

How many people are you generally looking for Krysia ?

And any idea where you would set the story ?

:-)

[Krysia]

How many people are you generally looking for Krysia ?

And any idea where you would set the story ?

:-)

I generally want to run with about 5-6 people. I've done a 15 man game before but well it ends up being a fight for attentions. I don't want to exclude anyone in the game at all and I feel a smaller group tends to do better mechanically cause each person can then help or hinder the team. Doing big huge groups tends to be a mad dash for me to answer questions and not move game on. I feel big groups work best for dungeon crawls.

I was thinking about placing the game in Maryland. Or in New York some where. I know the 2 states pretty well and both have very good areas for both urban and rural settings.

[RubySlippers]

My two cents I have the basic rules for VtM, none for werewolf and access to the Sorceror rules which is not true magic so often have fun doing the static (tech sorceror) insert vampire clan combo when I can the Tremere that gasp actually can make those cool border of the science gadgets over blood magic. I did one that had magic resistance but since static sorcery is technology based and not really true magic got around that. Still the other Tremere looked on the character like a amateur and not a real mage but she did invent lots of cool things and understood science at the cutting edge.

So if I did this I want to have fun with some leeway in creation so I can think outside the box somewhat.

[Altair1983]

Well id love to play a werewolf game especially if fera are opened up for play. Though VTM will be cool and im game for cam, sabbat independent or anarch. Just I wont be evil if we play an independent based game and ill refrain from playing my favorite clan so we dont have to worry about it being a path sin to diablerize everyone who isnt in the clan/ on this path.

[Sabriel]

I was thinking about placing the game in Maryland. Or in New York some where. I know the 2 states pretty well and both have very good areas for both urban and rural settings.

Neat, I can't say I am really familiar with those places myself but thats not usually a problem sound like great places for setting too :)  I have been in games set in New York before, and I was err..well "involved" in a chat based in a city in the state of Maryland so I kinda am a bit familiar with that in some ways.  Hehe I barely know my own home town that well thougth so I doubt it would cause problems for me, unless I was intended to play some sort of tour guide or such  :P

5-6 people seams a good number too, I have worked with more myself also on chats but it does tend to work far better when you have a regular fixed group and number.

On the subject and mention of Fera I thought I better express my odd attitude and view on this, I love Fera but I am rather peculiar about getting involved in games (especially werewolf) if the have a too oddly mixed cast. Mostly this is due to the fact if you have like just a few Garou and some Fera there is likely not much of a pack and well some unusual elements about, It is a bit like deciding to do a Sabbat game and the 4 of the players decide that instead of playing Sabbat they want to play another thing it takes away that pack element which is well one thing that makes the Sabbat neat. If it makes sense then I can easily go with it but if Kitsune/Eastern Fera start turning up in America randomly, start hanging about with Garou I tend to wonder what the hell is going on. I am a girl who mostly likes to stick to the theme, I like to do pack based games or Fera based games and then indulge in those themes not really into the whole combine a hodgepodge mix of multiple themes and thing's other than if its an Eastern game where that is the sort of theme of the beast courts :P.  So while I might accept a pack of like mostly Bone Gnawers having a Ratkin friend who hangs about with them etc, I might not view others in the same way and well any mention of Rokea or Nagah as PC's is liable to make me loose total interest unless the whole game is centered around them rather than Garou. 

[Senti]

I do have a rubbish Nuwisha :)

[Krysia]

Neat, I can't say I am really familiar with those places myself but thats not usually a problem sound like great places for setting too :)  I have been in games set in New York before, and I was err..well "involved" in a chat based in a city in the state of Maryland so I kinda am a bit familiar with that in some ways.  Hehe I barely know my own home town that well thougth so I doubt it would cause problems for me, unless I was intended to play some sort of tour guide or such  :P

5-6 people seams a good number too, I have worked with more myself also on chats but it does tend to work far better when you have a regular fixed group and number.

On the subject and mention of Fera I thought I better express my odd attitude and view on this, I love Fera but I am rather peculiar about getting involved in games (especially werewolf) if the have a too oddly mixed cast. Mostly this is due to the fact if you have like just a few Garou and some Fera there is likely not much of a pack and well some unusual elements about, It is a bit like deciding to do a Sabbat game and the 4 of the players decide that instead of playing Sabbat they want to play another thing it takes away that pack element which is well one thing that makes the Sabbat neat. If it makes sense then I can easily go with it but if Kitsune/Eastern Fera start turning up in America randomly, start hanging about with Garou I tend to wonder what the hell is going on. I am a girl who mostly likes to stick to the theme, I like to do pack based games or Fera based games and then indulge in those themes not really into the whole combine a hodgepodge mix of multiple themes and thing's other than if its an Eastern game where that is the sort of theme of the beast courts :P.  So while I might accept a pack of like mostly Bone Gnawers having a Ratkin friend who hangs about with them etc, I might not view others in the same way and well any mention of Rokea or Nagah as PC's is liable to make me loose total interest unless the whole game is centered around them rather than Garou.

The only way I'd ever allow Fera in say a werewolf game is if I was doing something with the beast courts. They seem to be a bit more tolerant to them then the western garou. Sure they could have maybe a ratkin or a corax to go to as a "contact" but they wouldn't be members of the pack.

As far as the poll I have going up at the top of the thread it says so far people want a cub type werewolf game.

[Sabriel]

The only way I'd ever allow Fera in say a werewolf game is if I was doing something with the beast courts. They seem to be a bit more tolerant to them then the western garou. Sure they could have maybe a ratkin or a corax to go to as a "contact" but they wouldn't be members of the pack.

Yeah that is my sort of view, it does tend to complicate things and its bit different from a game and a chat environment.  Hehe Ratkin and Corax are the easiest ones to do and they do make great contacts, I remember fondly a fellow PC "Official Sept" Corax in a story I was in once well at least that was what she called herself  the Garou obviously thought a bit differently :P

I do think a cub type game would be neat too, although I am pretty sure so far any other kind of game conceived through this will be neat also.

[fallensaviour]

so since it looks like we're doing werewolf, how's this look

http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/5695

[Krysia]

so since it looks like we're doing werewolf, how's this look

http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/5695

A cub game would mean bare minimum for starting. You wouldn't have rank at all. That and I haven't even posted up character creation yet. If you're a ragabash and just changed your rage wouldn't be 4. You wouldn't have gifts and you sure as heck wouldn't have fang daggers to start with either.

[fallensaviour]

sorry, was made with base char gen rules...if we're going less than that...then ok

[Sabriel]

Are we decided on it being a cub game then ?

If so that is neat, if not well then I am probably still interested hehe

It sounds like you probably use the sort of guidelines for character creation that I would for such a thing, but I won't be making up a sheet until I know what you would like.  I will be pondering concept thougth and then seeing which may work and fit best with the story and group.

I do like the prospect of doing the whole rite of passage and of learning gifts and such for the first time, learning gifts is such a great potential for roleplaying often overlooked.  There is nothing quite so fun as trying to appease a spirit, quest for chiminage or even converse with it alone and learn a new trick.

Does anybody else have ideas of what auspices or such they would choose, it might be good idea to discuss among ourselves and figure out what we would have.  Would be neat to have the full range of auspices, I will probably try go for whatever seams to be missing if such is the case.

[Krysia]

I'm actually currently working on the creation rules for the game. I want to balance out the fact you won't have certain things like renown, gifts, certain backgrounds and well rage and gnosis also an issue at starters. I'm hoping to get them up and flowing with in the hour or so.

[SomeGuy]

If there's still enough room, I'd be interested in joining. Been a while since I've played oWoD though.

[Krysia]

Character Creation
6/4/3
11/7/4
5 Backgrounds
No Gifts
Starting Rage for your auspice
Starting Gnosis from your breed
Willpower from Tribe
No Renown
21 freebies points
7 points from Flaw
No more then 10 freebie points spent on Merits

Backgrounds Allowed
Allies
Ancestors
Contacts
Kinfolk
Mentor
Pure Breed
Resources
Totem (No more then 1 dot)

Fetish and Rites aren't allowed because you will not have the rank to use them.

Merits and Flaws are subject to approval from the ST.

Tribes not allowed
Glasswalker
Bone Gnawer (Subject to ST Approval)
Star Gazer (They left the Nation)


Tribal Flaws and Background restrictions apply.

Books allowed
Revised Edition Werewolf
The player's guide to the Garou
   (If you're unsure, the merits are in the back of the book not the front)
Revised Edition Tribal Books.

Merits and Flaws can only be taken from these books

[fallensaviour]

ok...so, out of curiosity why the tribe bans?

[rancorius]

are you still looking for players?

[Krysia]

ok...so, out of curiosity why the tribe bans?

Because for Glasswalkers their rite of passage takes 48 hours. So it would be useless to have them in the game if we're going to be exploring the rites of the tribes. Glasswalkers are taken after their first change and put on what they call the fast track, spirits are pretty much bribed then the rite dished out so they can learn as they go with their rank. If they fail to actually hold on to their sanity in those 48 hours they go on what's called the slower track where they learn with metis and lupus of the tribe.

As for the Bone Gnawers they aren't banned per-say, just well limited because the setting will be rural and not urban. They'd have to have a very good reason as to why they were out gallivanting in the woods.

[fallensaviour]

fair enough, hmm i'll have to change my concept then since i was going to go bone gnawer, unless drifter is enough of a justification

[fallensaviour]

ooh...no rites that means no rite of talisman dedication, aka rite of pants

[Ixy]

I think the selection is fine-- remember, we're talking about cubs!  They truly do not know what's going on with what, and must discover these things :)

So, did you decide between MD or NY, or some other place, Krysia?

Can I make a couple small mechanics suggestions?  Tribes, auspices, and breeds determine base rage, gnosis, and willpower, if I recall correctly?  I never liked that, because it supports metagaming.  Would you like to houserule a baseline for these instead?  Of course, that does beg the question-- who was thinking about making a lupus red talon ahroun, hmmmm? 

Additionally, metis: are you allowing them, since they're invariably raised by garou if they're not slain outright?  I'd beg that be a big 'no'?

(side note: I've never, ever played a lupus character.  I think the mindset doesn't relate well enough and the novelty of wolf-perspective humor wears thin really, really quickly)

[Krysia]

I think the selection is fine-- remember, we're talking about cubs!  They truly do not know what's going on with what, and must discover these things :)

So, did you decide between MD or NY, or some other place, Krysia?

Can I make a couple small mechanics suggestions?  Tribes, auspices, and breeds determine base rage, gnosis, and willpower, if I recall correctly?  I never liked that, because it supports metagaming.  Would you like to houserule a baseline for these instead?  Of course, that does beg the question-- who was thinking about making a lupus red talon ahroun, hmmmm? 

Additionally, metis: are you allowing them, since they're invariably raised by garou if they're not slain outright?  I'd beg that be a big 'no'?

(side note: I've never, ever played a lupus character.  I think the mindset doesn't relate well enough and the novelty of wolf-perspective humor wears thin really, really quickly)

Well after talking to another person, I don't think I'll allow Lupus in general. Not because I don't like them or anything but it'll be a bit harder to teach a puppy cub things if he only gets exposure from a homid born.

How about this for an idea, rage and gnosis is capped at 1 as a cub. The reason I say this is because it could be a gift from Gaia and Luna after your rite of passage? You don't really have a use for rage and gnosis as a cub anyway.

[RubySlippers]

Because for Glasswalkers their rite of passage takes 48 hours. So it would be useless to have them in the game if we're going to be exploring the rites of the tribes. Glasswalkers are taken after their first change and put on what they call the fast track, spirits are pretty much bribed then the rite dished out so they can learn as they go with their rank. If they fail to actually hold on to their sanity in those 48 hours they go on what's called the slower track where they learn with metis and lupus of the tribe.

As for the Bone Gnawers they aren't banned per-say, just well limited because the setting will be rural and not urban. They'd have to have a very good reason as to why they were out gallivanting in the woods.

Bone Gnawers have rural members they are your typical poor mountain folk sorts but are there they in fact have them noted in the tribe book if I recall but more live in cities that doesn't mean all do.

I don't have the rules sadly but did play this in a tabletop game awhile back if I can get help I wouldn't mind the hot mountain girl type her family the rural Bone Gnawers sort poor and proud likely classic mountain folk or squatters on some island with some subsistance farming etc. going on. If the ST is okay with that idea it does fit the Gnawers and I always liked them as a tribe no one expects much from them.

[Krysia]

Bone Gnawers have rural members they are your typical poor mountain folk sorts but are there they in fact have them noted in the tribe book if I recall but more live in cities that doesn't mean all do.

I don't have the rules sadly but did play this in a tabletop game awhile back if I can get help I wouldn't mind the hot mountain girl type her family the rural Bone Gnawers sort poor and proud likely classic mountain folk or squatters on some island with some subsistance farming etc. going on. If the ST is okay with that idea it does fit the Gnawers and I always liked them as a tribe no one expects much from them.

See the problem with Gnawers is they can't have resources so when you say poor you should really mean "dead poor with no money scrapping road kill off the road and living off the land in general" type of character.

[Krysia]

Character/NPC Thread: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=115221.0

OOC Thread: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=115220.0

[RubySlippers]

See the problem with Gnawers is they can't have resources so when you say poor you should really mean "dead poor with no money scrapping road kill off the road and living off the land in general" type of character.

Your an almighty ST but where are most large waste dumps in cities or in the rural areas, in Florida most are in rural areas since no one want a landfill near them. You can build a home and survive on what you find there from raw materials to make a shanty home to rats and birds for food add in gathering berries, some hunting, the odd job on rare occassions and you can get by. Rural doesn't mean not survivors in fact they have the best of both worlds they are away from wyrm ridden cities, get access to city stuff and the odd job that is not a resource dot. Say in game I work at a construction site for a week for cash that is not a resource its in-game hard earned money she will be careful with.

I was thinking she would have her folks squatting near a large landfill and dump with others like her family, when they shut down they move to the next one to start over. I would not call that over dirt filthy poor would you or a resource dot which assume an income that is regular.

[SomeGuy]

Initial stats are here, originally started off as a Shadow Lord Philodox but as the character developed more and more I went away from that, as you might be able to notice.

[Jin]

Your an almighty ST but where are most large waste dumps in cities or in the rural areas, in Florida most are in rural areas since no one want a landfill near them. You can build a home and survive on what you find there from raw materials to make a shanty home to rats and birds for food add in gathering berries, some hunting, the odd job on rare occassions and you can get by. Rural doesn't mean not survivors in fact they have the best of both worlds they are away from wyrm ridden cities, get access to city stuff and the odd job that is not a resource dot. Say in game I work at a construction site for a week for cash that is not a resource its in-game hard earned money she will be careful with.

I was thinking she would have her folks squatting near a large landfill and dump with others like her family, when they shut down they move to the next one to start over. I would not call that over dirt filthy poor would you or a resource dot which assume an income that is regular.

The problem I would see here. Even if you do work at a construction site for a week for cash it would technically give you resources. Especially seeing as construction workers earn a lot of money. would definitely give you more than $500/month which is classified as resources one. Also most construction sites hire only union workers and will not hire you for just one week.  Also I know the area she is planning on using is about an hour away from the nearest dump.

[RubySlippers]

I meant like day labor not construction work you know you stand around and go heh I need someone to help for $50 for a day of work cash, then you get the cash and go. I always assumed resources were regular income as in a regular job if you read it its $X a week plus savings and things you can sell. Not odd jobs, panhandling, sidewalk performing, hitting up soup kitchens or living in a makeshift home and hunting and the like to get by (squatting somewhere and getting by).

That was an example odds are her main extra money would come here trucker for $20 I'll show ya a good time for a half hour in the back of your cab - cha ching. Or simply doing what most hot woman do show up at a bar and somehow never have to spend a dime to eat or drink. Generally what would be lucky work or work she gets some cash for but is not reliable every day. Even city gnawers get cash now and then I'm sure collecting cans, bottles, panhandling, sidewalk performing with a harmonica etc.

She is just very poor rural trash how she lives could be considered rural homeless maybe shelter and all but what she manages to get you know there are rural homeless they usually find shelter just don't rent or buy it, a cave or old building or old truck or van rusting out would do. Her family likely is no better.

Come on use common sense if she does the odd job for money in her case lets say (rural) some chores for some cash, lives say in an abandoned van fixed up with old wood and tenting tarp with her family is that resources of one? I'm not inclined to say yes myself its very poor with no income security or reliable assets they likely would manage to get by with everyone chipping in to not starve to death. A great example the Joad family in The Grapes of Wrath were they resources one or zero?

[Jin]

I was going off of your example. You said "Construction" so I was going off of your example. In this case your post sort of makes sense. Though it is laughable to think of a Bone Gnawer hooking, I mean come on no gifts means you stink especially if you live around trash. Odd jobs here and there for cash are getting harder and harder to come by. Also I suggest focusing on one thing in your argument. Your post seemed to go one way and then turn around on itself.  Krysia never said you couldn't play one just that you needed to have a good reason. She only outright denied the Glass walkers.

[fallensaviour]

she didnt say she'd charge very much :P

[RubySlippers]

Public bathrooms have soap and paper towels, you can work for money to buy generic personal care items if your homeless and its not overly expensive at your average Walmart to get store brands. True she won't be living well but could get by if she had a decent battery of skills. She would be rural homeless still homeless just not in the city it would have more challenges but after a bit she could have a nice thing going. And just because she has no reasources doesn't mean allies might not. I just have to be creative in the game on how she is going to get by with no resources.  ;D

[Krysia]

Public bathrooms have soap and paper towels, you can work for money to buy generic personal care items if your homeless and its not overly expensive at your average Walmart to get store brands. True she won't be living well but could get by if she had a decent battery of skills. She would be rural homeless still homeless just not in the city it would have more challenges but after a bit she could have a nice thing going. And just because she has no reasources doesn't mean allies might not. I just have to be creative in the game on how she is going to get by with no resources.  ;D

Game is going to be taking place in a state park. I don't see to many public bathrooms coming up unless you're living in the camping grounds and even then I would think the bathrooms would have those air dryers to make sure they don't have paper trails everywhere from things. Also have to consider the animals that are out there and they wouldn't want the local wildlife getting into paper towels and dragging them everywhere.

[fallensaviour]

its still -possible- to do, just not at all easy

[Krysia]

The OOC thread and Character Thread is up for people who are interested in playing to post there and post their characters for me to go over. I'm going to try and get more information about the area and hopefully a few maps for us to look at.

[fallensaviour]

i'm interested, just having problems coming up with ideas other than a wandering vagrant bone gnawer, and a hippie commune child of gaia

[Senti]

have a couple of idea's was going to go for a fianna or a CoG.

[Vandren]

where are most large waste dumps in cities or in the rural areas, in Florida most are in rural areas since no one want a landfill near them.

In Ohio, they're in the cities, for the most part.  So this example's answer varies from state to state.

[Sabriel]

Is anyone else actually working on concepts/character ideas ?

I am have been but well I sort of wanted some input from the rest of the group, so I can fill a gap or lack of auspice etc.

I have asked in the ooc section hehe but it seams to me that many may be ignorant of its existence perhaps ?

[Krysia]

I have asked in the ooc section hehe but it seams to me that many may be ignorant of its existence perhaps ?

That might be true. So here it is again!
Character/NPC Thread: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=115221.0

OOC Thread: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=115220.0

[Miyu]

I am expressing interest in the werewolf game if it's still available positions, if not that's okay :)

[Jin]

Don't see a problem with it. What were you thinking about playing?

[Miyu]

No clue I need to download the book again lol