A Greek of Thrones {Interest Check}

[Primarch]

"Man is by nature a political animal." - Aristotle

I had an idea I thought was interesting, a Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones-esque game but taking it from the Medieval setting it and putting it into something inspired by Ancient Greece. The Seven Kingdoms may become a collection of City-States currently under one King, ideally a King that has been for one reason or another quite weak the last few years allowing the other major leaders to start flexing their political and military muscles for a greater share of the power. Another option would be each City-State has its own King, but they are all united in a 'League of Corinth' type group and the head of the league is a 'defacto' ruler.

"It is possible to provide security against other ills, but as far as death is concerned, we men live in a city without walls." - Epicurus

I think if the game was to go ahead the number of factions/dynasties/houses might be smaller than the 'Seven' Kingdoms. Simply as I believe we probably won't have enough players to portray a sufficient cast of characters to fill out 7 factions (nevermind people not strictly affiliated with any given central group). But perhaps five City-States might be possible, certainly if we aim to actually get one character from each group represented in the game before allowing non-affiliated characters.

"Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber." - Plato

Presence of magic is certainly optional, it could be non-existent, could be limited to oracles but rumours and legends exist or we could simply make it as fantasy as we like. Personally I prefer magic on the limited side but I'm flexible. Perhaps the League of Greeks (or whatever name is decided) united to fend off all the monsters that plagued their lands (which now live behind some....I dunno giant wall? :P ), or maybe it was to resist invasion by barbarians or worst...Romans.   

That all being said, if there is anyone out there that is interested in building this setting and game with me, please post here and we can try put something together.

*****

Alright, so I'm converting the 'Houses of Westeros' into 'Dynasties of the City-States.' Each Dynasty is the Royal Family of a City-State, but as it stands each of these royal families currently bend the knee to the 'King of all Greeks.'

Dynasty 1 - King of all the Greeks: Adopted by mia h
This Dynasty will have been ruling the Greeks as a united people since the City-States united to ward off external threats. By the opening of the game they will have become vulnerable, perhaps the last King has died and either has no heir or an heir to young to control the throne, leaving a beloved but politically weak Queen to rule. Perhaps the recently crowned King is ill-prepared for filling his fathers shoes, or perhaps the King is still alive but age has reduced his capacity, or failing health has left him bedridden. Either way the player(s) that take on this group will start weak and need to gather allies to solidify their position, one way or another.

Dynasty 2: Adopted by Primarch

Dynasty 3: Adopted by Wargtass

Dynasty 4: Open for adoption

Dynasty 5: Open for adoption

I'm looking for people to adopt a Dynasty and start defining it, each Dynasty can have a King, Queen and varying numbers of Princes and Princesses (played by separate players, hopefully) and can generate their own City-State. I'm going to allow quite a bit of flexibility (although the current 'leading' faction has that note attached for plot purposes). 

While this game will eventually be open for characters that are not a part of any of these Dynasties, at the beginning I'm just looking for the key players. One character from each Dynasty to plot, plan and conspire for the throne over thrones or keeping the current Dynasty in power in exchange for wealth/power/sexual favours. People are entirely free to take up more than one character (although not 2 Kings or the like) so don't worry that playing a City-State ruler will mean you can't play super talented Blacksmith or a brooding Hoplite.

So we'll build the plot around what's generated. Anyone care to start off a Dynasty? I'll throw up character sheets once I know there's a few that will commit. 

Dynasty Application Sheet

Code Select Expand

[b]Dynasty Name:[/b]
[b]Traditional Title(s):[/b]
[b]Current Patriarch/Matriarch:[/b] <Can be left incomplete until character is generated, 'Non-incumbent' is also applicable>
[b]Major City/Polis:[/b]
[b]City Assets:[/b]
[b]Surrounding landscape:[/b]

[b]Dynasty Strengths:[/b]
<Strengths should cover both virtues trained to the individuals born of the Dynasty, but also political, economic or military strengths that can be called upon by the Polis they rule>

[b]Dynasty Weaknesses:[/b]
<Should cover flaws often typical of individuals born of the Dynasty, but also political, economic or military weaknesses suffered by the Polis they rule>

[b]Recent History:[/b]

[b]Anything else:[/b]
Any other information or details you would like in place

[Kimera]

Sounds like an interesting game

You could always have like more city states, but only 2-3 are cast by players and the others are simple NPC states

[Primarch]

Possibly, but I'm not overtly interested in taking on a lot of NPC-ing myself, especially in a game where the interaction between the big players is key. After building the setting I'd be rather keen on getting to enjoy RPing in the setting too. Though if there were a co-GM or two it would certainly make something like that more likely.

[mia h]

Sounds interesting, but are you thinking it more epic battles ranging all over the different kingdoms or more a court intrigue based idea where everyone is pretty much in the captial ?

[Primarch]

I certainly want to start with the court intrigue side of things, likely play with the 'threat' of military action more so than army conflict being the go-to means of resolving conflict.

I don't want to rule out the eventuality of open war however. Once people start to actually make their powerplays and someone puts their bottom on the throne after obtaining it one way or another, the people that stand to lose out under the new regime just might get the armies ready for some fighting to get the throne the old fashioned way. Even then I would hope there is political intrigue and underhanded subterfuge. You never know who's your ally until its time to spill blood! 

[Wargtass]

Bookmarked for interest.

[Primarch]

Edited information to get the ball rolling into the OP.

[Wargtass]

An idea slapped me in the face just now. A frontier kingdom like the Epirotes, Bosporans or hellenized Odrysians, considered as backwater and a political underdogs, but their barbaric allies and mercenaries to the northern reaches gives them a fierce and formidable fighting force that has stopped them from being usurped by the other kingdoms. That same strength may well be their key to power now, if they choose their allies carefully.

[Primarch]

An idea slapped me in the face just now. A frontier kingdom like the Epirotes, Bosporans or hellenized Odrysians, considered as backwater and a political underdogs, but their barbaric allies and mercenaries to the northern reaches gives them a fierce and formidable fighting force that has stopped them from being usurped by the other kingdoms. That same strength may well be their key to power now, if they choose their allies carefully.

With so much of Greek armies revolving around self-equipped civilians, a good supply of mercenaries would likely be an asset indeed.

[mia h]

*sits on the throne and squirms around a bit*
Definately needs more cushions.

But I'd like to claim the head of Dynasty 1, that way all of Greece can be employed making more cushions.  ;D

[1SAZ]

*reads through the concept a second time*

Yep, I'm in. Covers a lot of my interest basis in one go.

[Primarch]

Excellent!

2 Dynasties are currently claimed and 3 free. I recommend people either decide to adopt one or get in contact with someone adopting one to work out a position in the family/character.

[1SAZ]

Just want to make sure I understand the core concept of the houses, each is a city-state in the Greek sense, but handled more like the houses in ASoIaF? A quick thought to bring out a lot of the feel of ASoIaF while being more fitting of Greek tales would be to have each of the five poleis feel like a major polis of Greece (with governments fitting such). You could also have the Dothraki be more like the Egyptians (since that's one of the key sources for the Dothraki). While it might be seen as difficult to have court intrigue in an Athenian style Democracy, it's actually easier than it sounds, especially when you have powerful elected officials who want to keep their power, under the threat of their own people. As for keeping the "Dothraki" involved, even a young king needs allies, and it would be easier for the young king to ally with a people not native to them than those who would rather take the power for themselves.

Those are just some thoughts I had recently. Let me know what you think.

[Tamhansen]

I always thought the Dothraki were based on the timurid mongols. An almost complete copy of them even.

As for this game, it sounds very interesting,

Something like Epirus could be a very interesting project.

[Primarch]

To answer your question Warg, a 'Realm' in ASoIaF is being converted into a City-State and a 'House' into the Dynasty that rules over that City-State. Each one feeling like a major Polis is exactly what I had in mind. Our characters would be representing the biggest movers and shakers. I do think however Athenian Democracy and the forms of direct democracy practiced in Ancient Greece probably isn't super ideal for this game, while we could just say the Dynasties are so popular in the City-State they represent they could sufficiently influence the city to negotiate for instance military support, I think we would make life a lot easier for ourselves by running with each Dynasty being the Monarchy of their City-State. 

Wargtass has adopted another Dynasty via PM, which leaves 2 available.

On the matter of the Dothraki, Martin has stated they are an "amalgam of a number of steppe and plains cultures. Mongols and Huns, certainly, but also Alans, Sioux, Cheyenne, and various other Amerindian tribes... seasoned with a dash of pure fantasy. Resemblance to Arabs or Turks is coincidental, extent that the Turks were also originally horsemen of the steppes."

Regardless this game is about internal power struggles so any external threat will likely be important in this game more so as a part of the history of this setting, with either a faction inspired by Rome taking the position of Essos or possibly something akin to Egypt, Persia or even the Mongols for the Dothraki.

Last point I'd like to make is related to what Katataban just said and something Wargtass mentioned in his PM. This game is inspired by Ancient Greece but is absolutely is not Ancient Greece itself. If you want to take inspiration for your Dynasty/City-State from a particular group from Ancient Greece such as Epirus you go for it. But you can also feel free to look at several different factions or none of them specifically. My Dynasty/City-State will certainly have a splash of Sparta.

[Kimera]

How much 'fantasy' is allowed? In game of thrones, there are mythological creatures (dragons) and undead. Will this game feature such things, like greek myths.

[Wargtass]

I was thinking at least that Bellerophon would be the mythical originator of the Frontier Dynasty and the Chimera the heraldic animal, but then again all that supposedly went down i Lycia in the Anatollians rather than in the Balkans, so in case Kimera has some plans for it I'll take on something else.  ;D

I think it would be a nice idea to have some mythical elements, though personally I'd like to keep it in a minimum.

[Kimera]

Fear the mighty chimera ^^

Edit: I have no plans yet and not sure if i want to play the ruler of a dynasty.

[Primarch]

I think it would be a nice idea to have some mythical elements, though personally I'd like to keep it in a minimum.

Magic is something I'm kind of letting the group decide, we'll base it on what the group decides. I too am interested in 'mythical elements, but kept to a minimum.'

What do the rest of you think? 

[mia h]

What would

'mythical elements, but kept to a minimum.' 

look like? I guess everyone might have different ideas of what the minimum is.

[mia h]

I have no plans yet and not sure if i want to play the ruler of a dynasty.

I'm sure we could find a suitable position role for you to fill occupy.

[Kimera]

Well kept to a minimum could be that somewhere, there might be one hydra lurking around. Or somewhere there is a temple holding one of the gorgons etc...

[Primarch]

I'd consider 'minimum' to be lots of rumours and legends, or Oracles that certainly seem to be sending messages from the Gods. We could have something akin to Valyrian steel blades, but nothing direct or obvious in terms of magic.

[1SAZ]

That certainly cleared up a lot of my questions. I have a few ideas running through my head on my polis that could certainly work well in this. I'm planning on a culture more akin to Athens, though with a clear hierarchy. In other words, expect a strong artistic and scholastic draw with a strong volunteer based army (I plan to go into more detail about that in the future).

[mia h]

I'd consider 'minimum' to be lots of rumours and legends, or Oracles that certainly seem to be sending messages from the Gods. We could have something akin to Valyrian steel blades, but nothing direct or obvious in terms of magic.

So no actual magic and a bunch of seers making vauge predictions about the future  ;D Seems about right

[Wargtass]

So no actual magic and a bunch of seers making vauge predictions about the future  ;D Seems about right

Yes please. : D

[Primarch]

Okay so I think there's some consensus concerning the amount of magic in the setting. I'll hopefully get up character sheets and dynasty sheets today, but please bear with me if I don't. My better half is visiting from a foreign country this week and its the first time we've been together in about six months so we're trying to pack in as much of the sight seeing and what not.

But once we sit down long enough I'll try get everything together.

[mia h]

If you haven't seen them for six months and you can find time to sit down and mess around on E then you are doing something wrong  :P

[Primarch]

Apologies for the delay. Application sheet is up for the 'Dynasty' creation. Character apps coming soon.
At least once a few Dynasties are in place others can take an interest.

[Wargtass]

Dynasty Name: Epirotes
Traditional Title(s): Kingdom of Epirus, Frontier League
Current Patriarch/Matriarch: Bircenna, Queen of Epirus
Major City/Polis: Apollonia
City Assets: Very little in terms of economic value. Several stable treaties with lesser dynasties around the frontiers to the north brings in some agricultural boons, but not much more.
Surrounding landscape: The small city is surrounded by wineyards that produce Apollonian wine, a sweet wine popular among the Epirotes and the Illyrian tribes to the north. East of the city, in the mountain range, is the ancient and revered Oracle of Dodona and its nearby village, which is just about the only source of prestige left in Epirus.

Dynasty Strengths:
+ Friend of lesser men: Ever since the catastrophic campaign against the upstart Romans on the Italian Penninsula, the Epirotes have fought tooth and nail to remain strong in the face of the other city-states, lest they come to feast on the carrion. As such they began a serious campaign to improve their relations with the Illyrian, Dacian and Gallic tribes to the north. Indeed, the current matriarch of the Epirotes is of Illyrian decent, wife of Pyrrhus and after his death the Queen of Epirus. With the promises and apparent familiar ties, the armies of the Frontier League are filled to the rim with fierce barbarian warriors and are large source of the fear and respect that remain for Pyrrhus' legacy.
+ United we are strong: While the other city states merely turned their backs on the villages and towns of the northern frontiers, the Epirotes have always seen to their best interest and taken note of the potential riches in the region. There is a loyalty between these border regions that other states find tough to rival and they stand united against barbarian raiders from the north and potential usurpers to the south. While the Frontier League lack any major polis, their lands stretch from Apollonia across the Paeonian and Thracian mountains to the Black Sea, making it the largest of the current Greek states with influences both in the Adriatic, Ionian and Black Seas.
+ Defenders of Dodona: The Oracle of Zeus at Dodona is the oldest and one of the most prestigeous of all the Greek Oracles. It has been under the protection of the Epirotes as long as anyone can remember and it is considered a great honor among the people of Epirus and even their allies along the Frontier are proud to be part of its defence. While their barbarian warriors surely respect such an obviously wise and divine connection to the gods and nature, the greeks in the Frontier armies fight with a fervor that, while not as skillful, rivals that of even Sparta.

Dynasty Weaknesses:
- Barbarian ilk: Even though only a few generations have passed since the entwining of the Epirotes and barbarians of the north, it is already showing on their bloodline through the cultural and personal wedlock between the two. Most men and women of Epirus have come to favor martial skill and brutal cunning over the diplomacy and scholastic pursuit of their southern cousins. Indeed, some have even cast off their togas for pants and tied their unnaturally long hair into braids. To say the least, many "proper" Greeks see them as having gone barbarian and mock them openly for it, at least when their backs are turned.
- Heritage of Pyrrhus: Pyrrhus catastrophic victory on the Italia Penninsula makes itself constantly reminded in and without the courts of the City States. Even now that the man himself is dead, his name weighs heavily on the prestige of the dynasty of the Epirotes and the Frontier League itself. Even worse, the Romans have yet to forget the slight that Pyrrhus caused them, and Apollonia is the closest port from the Roman city of Brundisium...
- Thinly spread: While the Frontier League enjoys vast space and a reputation to match, they are just not strong enough to cover all the ground that they have. Their armies spread thinly and while they have used barbarian warriors to fill out the holes, it begs the question; is a state really civilized at all when the majority of their population and soldiers are not even Greeks at all?

Recent History:

Anything else:
Any other information or details you would like in place



Update upcoming.

[Ironwolf85]

hmmmm... still room?

[sansa]

interested if there is still room :)

[Vassus]

Alright, being a lover of history and politics, I have to state a definite interest. If the two people behind me don't adopt a dynasty, I'd defiantly like to start one.

[Primarch]

Hey guys, first of all apologies for the delay. My girlfriend decided we should go on a break and it rather blindsided me. Its been bit if a distraction. If you those that have already expressed interest are still interested, if you could please post here to let me know that would be great.

To those that just posted, there is definitely room. If you want to adopt a Dynasty just say so otherwise I would recommend you get into contact with someone that has.

[mia h]

Still interested, just a little busy for the next few days

[Wargtass]

I'd like to request a player for the ruler of the Epirote Dynasty, the Illyrian-born Bircenna, Queen of Epirus. I'd rather just sit back as some sort of adviser or Strategos for this and pull some strings every now and then and leave the actual ruling to someone else. I need a proper warrior queen à lá Boudica for this dynasty, with a whole lot of pathos and fierce dramatic weight to throw around. A badass queen, simply put!  ;D

[Caela]

Marking this for interest but I have to work the next couple of days so I won't be really able to delve into it unti lFriday!

[Belisuavious]

If there's still a dynasty spot open, here's an application.

If not, I'll happily join a house that wants to swell their ranks

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Dynasty Name: Kolokotroni
Traditional Title(s):Tariasian Republic
Current Patriarch/Matriarch: Theodors Kolokotronos
Major City/Polis: Taris
City Assets: Vineyards as far as the eye can see, Big fleet
Surrounding landscape: Taris the island is a relatively large island just off the coast. It is relatively flat, though the northern end is thickly forested.

Taris the city is a large walled city of approximately 2.000 citizens and a floating population of another 1.000 or so resident aliens, here on business, pleasure or a bit of both.

A scattering of villas administer to the vineyards and woodcutting, as well as acting as the centres for the various villages on the island.

Dynasty Strengths:
+ Merchant Marine – To be a Tarisian is to be a sailor, and all but the newborns and the younger toddlers know the rudiments of being aboard a galley, as well as a passing knowledge at least of how to swim.

+ Vineyards and Vintners – The other thing Tarisians are famed for is their wine, both the quality and quantity. While other places may make wine of a middling status, everyone knows that Tarisian wine is the drink of choice.

+ Mighty Fleet – The Tarisians are great sailors, and have one of the mightiest fleets in the area. While only the nobles and the richer citizens may know how to fight as proper hoplites, almost every Tarisian man knows how to fight in the chaos of a boarding action or barroom brawls, courtesy of firsthand knowledge from the seas and taverns across the known world.

Dynasty Weaknesses:
+ Republic in name only – While the Tarisians are a republic, and they do have elections to decide their ruler, the Kolokotroni family has been in power for generations. While the majority of people are happy with the way things are going, there is certainly a lot of political chafing among the upper class and nobility

+ Filthy Foreigners – Despite, or perhaps because of, their relatively low population, the Tarisians are leery about accepting new citizens into their city. Most cases require that both parents are Tarisian, though in special circumstances they may only require one. The number of times citizenship has been granted to those with no previous Tarisian background can be counted on a single hand.

+ Hungry Hungry People – The island of Taris cannot feed itself. They can produce some of the required luxury goods but for staples like bread, they rely almost exclusively on exports. They are loathe to surrender their vineyards to any other purpose, and even when the island was blockaded and starving early in its history, everyone could still get drunk.

Recent History: (TBD)

Anything else: (TBD)