Seeking Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD, lots custom rules)

[PaleEnchantress]

I love item crafting but cohorts are to fun to waste on such a thing.

[TheGlyphstone]

Cohorts are fun. Getting my gear made for 19.68% of list price is more fun, sadly. Well, the joy of making the numbers squeal like this is fun in its own right, but having lots of cool toys to deck out my character in the end is also fun.


And I'll still have the cohort, he's just going to be missing a few levels.

[Kunoichi]

I think I recall Zaer saying something about crafting before the game's start, but I don't recall exactly what it was. ^^; You should probably wait on finalizing that list until he can weigh in on the matter.

[TheGlyphstone]

I think I recall Zaer saying something about crafting before the game's start, but I don't recall exactly what it was. ^^; You should probably wait on finalizing that list until he can weigh in on the matter.

...I'm going to go trawl the OOC thread now, just to make sure. I've just about finished, so if I have to start over, Imma gonna be angry.

[Kunoichi]

I'll take some time and look through the original recruitment thread, myself.

[Kunoichi]

Ah, page 12.  Infinite XP for crafting purposes before the start of the game, but you can only craft things for yourself.  So, your cohort can cheaply craft his own items, but nothing for you.  Any spells or other special abilities with XP costs can also have been put to use for free before the start of the game.

[TheGlyphstone]

I'll take some time and look through the original recruitment thread, myself.

You can choose cohort to be either gestalt like you or have paragon template (I guess most folks take the later as template is that good). Also cohort must not be 'crafter' sort buddy or such. As you get no items crafted via cohort (it can have feats but it must not benefit you). As some folks take crafting cohorts doing your gear seriously enough. But cohorts can craft their own gear (use NPC gold of a 15th level).

after trying to decipher this, minus the last two sentences which I simply cannot parse at all, it looks like he's forbidden craft-monkeys. Damn.

You can make custom item even if not being a crafter. 100,000gp can be spend single powerful canon item or make a custom item from 'lesser' items lumbed together. Overall though you can make only few (not every item must be custom) custom items and it can be the 'legendary' item of yours.

But we can make our own items, and you can pay money to retrain feats. So it looks like if I want extra loot, I need to take the crafting feats, buy scrolls with the spells I need to make the items, make the items, then buy reformations/chaos shuffles to shed the creation feats again (like the Invisible Stalker character did). Waaaaay more complex than just having a pet artificer, but if this is the rule for the game, I'll work with it - the discounts are definitely worth the complexity.

[Kunoichi]

On the bright side, like I said, at least it doesn't actually cost you any xp. ^^

Plus, for each adventure your character completes, you'll have the option of making a level, picking up an epic-level companion of some sort, or gaining an artifact, so you could easily wind up with some very powerful gear equipped after a few adventures.

[TheGlyphstone]

True. But I'm going to sit for a while, and check again in the morning. If Zaer shoots down the self-crafting discount plan for some reason, I want to know before I start running numbers again.

[schnookums]

I probably won't be able to start with crunchy bits before this weekend. I have some vague ideas but I have to go through all the 3.5 prcs and suchlike to see what I want to make. I'm so rusty with 3.5 x.x

I'm thinking of my fae dragon's path to power might involve being the familiar to one of the most (in)famous wizards in the Forgotten Realms, something about the danger and hubris of trying to steal the goddess of magic's portfolio...

[Kunoichi]

I probably won't be able to start with crunchy bits before this weekend. I have some vague ideas but I have to go through all the 3.5 prcs and suchlike to see what I want to make. I'm so rusty with 3.5 x.x

I'm thinking of my fae dragon's path to power might involve being the familiar to one of the most (in)famous wizards in the Forgotten Realms, something about the danger and hubris of trying to steal the goddess of magic's portfolio...

So you'd be Karsus' familiar?  That's certainly an interesting backstory option to take.

[schnookums]

Well, it would definitely explain the power she has now...that she absorbed a bit of the divine spark before it was stripped from him entirely. Plus it would explain why she's subject to bullying/exploitation: she's always been the 'sidekick' and psychologically has great difficulty coming to terms with exactly how powerful she is.

[Kunoichi]

Hmm.  Would you be open to suggestions for alternate character ideas?  Because I was looking through an old issue of Dragon Magazine just now and I came across a concept that would probably give you a similar, but slightly more entertaining, play experience as what you're going for with your Faerie Dragon...

Among the ranks of demonkind, there are those who become accustomed to being summoned by mortals and bribed into servitude.  Over time, such demons become well known to arcane spellcasters, with their price, tastes, and skills recorded in many tomes.  Among their fellow demons, such frequently bound demons are known as "harlots," for their willingness to exchange services for rewards at a "regular rate" is considered demeaning.

[TheGlyphstone]

Mine's actually pretty straightforward...the Elder Evil Ragnorra is also known as the Mother of Monsters, and horrifically reshapes the life of a planet she attacks. My monstrosity was the last-ditch effort of a doomed planet's defenders, an unstoppable monster crafted by druids and wizards set loose to destroy Ragnorra before she could overrun everything. It succeeded, but eating the soul of Ragnorra, along with the souls of all the creatures and heroes Ragnorra had already converted to its service, drove the ultra-hydra unfathomably insane and made it even more powerful. It proceeded to rampage uncontrollably around the world until a new band of heroes managed to successfully seal it away.

Since I can't use a craftmonkey, I'll have my cohort and followers be a cult of Malshapers, Ragnorra-worshippers who believe their deity still lives inside the beast that devoured her.

[Kunoichi]

Ah, I see.  Well, one note about backstories that everyone will need to be aware of when it comes to this game: Since you're coming in after the game's start, the old backstory requirement of needing to have been sealed away no longer applies.  Instead, new monsters entering the game need to have either recently been born or created (as is the case for Kimera's slime girl and Zaer's death knight) or else need to have had some sort of change happen to them recently, something that catapulted them up from merely being powerful creatures to having a truly unique, legendary status.

Killing and eating Ragnorra would certainly work for your character, Glyph. ^^

[schnookums]

I'll bite Kunoichi, give me more info on this alternate idea. :)

[TheGlyphstone]

I guess I could rework it somewhat...actually, reworking it takes very little. Backstory stays as written right up to the very end, when the rag-tag band of heroes is trying to seal away the unstoppable monstrosity...instead of imprisoning it outside of space and time, their ritual makes it disappear. In this case, the result of the ritual was Ao answering the prayers and scooping up the now-legendary beast to do whatever Ao wants with us.

Will Zaer go for that?


Also, I really hope I get some flexibility with the magic item thing and self-crafting, because otherwise my 'legendary item' is going to be quite lame. A +4 Amulet of Mighty Fists is already 96,000 GP, and it's basically the single most important magic item possible for a natural-weapon warrior. If I have to buy down to a +3 in order to fit some other interesting properties on it, I will...but at the very least, maybe he'll let me put more of my total wealth towards my 'legendary' item since 2/3 of my body slots are already locked up with Soulmelds.

[Kunoichi]

I'll bite Kunoichi, give me more info on this alternate idea. :)

Well, I don't really have much more aside from the excerpt that I already posted, but the basic idea is that your character would be one of these 'Demonic Harlots', a demon whose name, skillset, and preferences for rewards are well known to arcane spellcasters across a variety of worlds.  The exploitation comes in with all the arcane spellcasters who regularly summon you from your home in order to barter for your services at whatever your character is good at, and the bullying comes from the fact that none of your fellow demons have any respect for you, because you're frequently out selling yourself to mortals, so much so that they outright call you a harlot to your face. ;)

Succubus would be the natural fit for such a character, of course, but you could also potentially make an interesting character out of a Vrock, or possibly even a Yochlol, if you wanted.  There are lots of options for good demons out there. ^^

I guess I could rework it somewhat...actually, reworking it takes very little. Backstory stays as written right up to the very end, when the rag-tag band of heroes is trying to seal away the unstoppable monstrosity...instead of imprisoning it outside of space and time, their ritual makes it disappear. In this case, the result of the ritual was Ao answering the prayers and scooping up the now-legendary beast to do whatever Ao wants with us.

Will Zaer go for that?


Also, I really hope I get some flexibility with the magic item thing and self-crafting, because otherwise my 'legendary item' is going to be quite lame. A +4 Amulet of Mighty Fists is already 96,000 GP, and it's basically the single most important magic item possible for a natural-weapon warrior. If I have to buy down to a +3 in order to fit some other interesting properties on it, I will...but at the very least, maybe he'll let me put more of my total wealth towards my 'legendary' item since 2/3 of my body slots are already locked up with Soulmelds.

You could easily just be off on a rampage and one of the pre-existing monster characters could come by to take you directly to Ao himself, actually.  Ao likes to be a more hands-off type of Overgod, so he basically gave all of our monsters the ability to use these magical portals that can take them to anywhere they want, in any universe in existence, so that they can act as his agents when needed.  He'd do the same for your character after explaining the overarching plot to him, and then set him free to go back to doing whatever he was doing before their meeting. ^^;

And don't worry, if he allowed indarkestknight to do that little feat shuffle self-crafting thing with Sshai, then he shouldn't really have any reason to disallow it for you.

[TheGlyphstone]

The difference is that Sshai has sorcerer levels, so could have provided his own spells. I'd have to buy scrolls with the necessary spells on them in addition to shuffling the feats. So I'm on much shakier ground, conceptually.

[Zaer Darkwail]

TheGlyphstone: Indeed it's correct that your cohort cannot craft items for you in start (can craft for itself). But once game starts then cohort can craft things for you (but takes time but you can kick crafter into limbo where time warps so it takes 10 days instead 100 days craft item or such with aid of dimensional door Ao gives).

Anycase psychic reformation is a thing so yes, if you can retrain your feats (can be done with limited wish scroll) you can start out master crafter and then no longer be master crafter once your legendary item is complete. So I allow Sshai's shenanigans (and I allow pathfinder idea that with sick spellcraft check modifier you can ignore some missing spell requirements from items, but need succeed with the Spellcraft vs CL check of the item and every missing spell gives -5 penalty to spellcraft).

However if you want to have +5 enchant bonus with all your magic weapons, you could use the gold to hire 'service' of a druid and then service of a 'mage' to cast permanency on the spells druid casts on you. Ofc it has risk of dispelling but not if you hire CL 20 or so mages/druids do the casting (so dispel is rare). However by time dispels start be problem then you may had got enough loot for your crafter cohort to craft something more solid thing for you. Service cost as I remember it was 25gp x CL x spell level. Plus extra 100gp per XP spend on XP spending spells (like permanency unless you buy the scroll itself).

As note; same as with crafting cohorts do not provide spells for crafting nor spell cast services (you spend gold on that). However as a tip; you could have custom item which casts extended magic natural weapons as command action at-will. It may be cheaper option to get what you want possibly (or add 1-3 charge limit).


schnookums : Karsus familiar? Well, it would be suitably epic :). As Kunoichi suggested your char could be demonic/fiendish familiar which was bound to Karsus service (and succubus can be familiar with such epic scaled caster) and so you got bit divine spark in the event. In the DMG II as I mentioned before there is at least one template there which involves around having 'spark of divinity' or such (gives access to domain and use domain power as cleric equal your HD; which this case get one Mystara domains and some domain choices are pretty good; example magic allows use magic items as if being caster when your not one).

However, if still want stick as fairy dragon here is stats what I allow (as house rule, as I am sure these are homebrew but I checked it and I am okay with it); http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fairy_Dragon_%283.5e_Creature%29

[PaleEnchantress]

As you know, my characters tend to follow a somewhat similar archetype. Last night I got a spark of inspiration for back story thinking of actual monsters of legend. In this case Medusa. Being a divinely blessed high priest of one deity then getting raped by another deity on the alter of the first deity. Sounds like the start of a legendary monster to me.  It's a shame I like CHA so much but prefer prepares casters to spontaneous casters. AFAIK there are no CHA based prepared casters.  Just off the top of my head im thinking.

Mystic: Primary casting class 12 (maybe archivist?)
Might: Marshal 2/Monk 1/ Lifedrinker 9
Monster: Evolved Vampire Lord Silver brow Human


Might drop the evolved template for Lifemate (fun for rp purposes with a partner) from DMG 2, or a level of master vampire. Unseelie Fey is also a good and flavorful option but i ALWAYS use that template so im wondering if i maybe can resist it this time. Might opt for a "Small" base race too.

[Sain]

You could look into getting Sublime Chord prestige class for the mythical side. They go up to 9th level spells and have cha as the spellcasting attribute. That would mean you'd have to go for something else than lifedrinker on physical side though.

e. Nvm it a spontane caster :P

e2. Sha'ir could work however!

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, with paragon creature you can play both intelligence/wisdom based caster and still use charisma (as you got marshal levels). However as note; marshal, as class, no longer exists. It's merged entirely (gestalted into) paladin class (so paladin besides normal features has all marshal features as well, skill points included). Evil paladins swap skill focus: Diplomacy for Intimidate (Tyranny) or Bluff (Slaughter) if they so wish. For getting charisma bonus to all saves would be pretty good to get 3 levels as paladin (so long it's clear you take non-spellcasting variant as spellcasting paladin is mystical class, non-spellcasting is martial).

As I advised before; check the house rules from OOTS game where I linked as many classes got major changes or ceased to be (and instead got merged, like soulknife got merged with hexblade).

Anycase Archivist is okay to me (and so is silverbrow human) and the story you told about being 'raped on altar of first deity' can work with other monsters than medusa; vampire lord could be one (cursed into undeath and fear the sunlight by their deity who was disgusted on his followers weakness, but later on overcame weakness in becoming vampire lord). Lifemate could be very ironic/interesting choice; so you would get associate NPC already (or find it later) or form bond to one the other PC's which hold reincarnated soul of the loved one who somehow involves with the events decades ago (a mad lust performed on holy altar and god slew your lover and cursed to be vampire, spiteful as god was).

[Kunoichi]

If you're familiar with the Spirit Shaman from Complete Divine, Pale, then that could be one option for a Charisma-based semi-prepared caster.  You'd get access to the Druid spell list, and would get to choose which spells you had access to each day, but would then get to spontaneously cast those spells.  The class uses Charisma for save DCs, and while it uses Wisdom for spells per day, a Dragonlance feat called Dynamic Priest could fix that little problem easily, assuming Zaer would allow it.

As for the Sha'ir Sain mentioned, that one is in Dragon Magazine Compendium.  It's similar to the Spirit Shaman in how it functions, but gains spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard list and is fully Charisma-based from the start.  It's got more of an Arabian flavor to it, but coming from a desert setting could be an interesting choice for a vampire.  You could have been the follower of some other deity (a river goddess, perhaps?), and have been raped on the altar of one of her temples by the harsh, merciless sun god of your world.  Then, as punishment for this, your patron deity cursed you to be unable to bear the light of the sun, casting you out but at the same time ensuring that the sun god would never again be able to have you.

Edit: And if you'd like to play a small race, Dragon Magazine 350 has the D'hin'ni, a plane touched Halfling race that has a little Djinni blood in its veins.  It's got a Charisma bonus and prestidigitation at-will, so it could be pretty fun and flavorful to try. ^^

[Kunoichi]

Actually, looking over the Sha'ir now, it's a lot closer to a Wizard than the Spirit Shaman is to a Druid.  The flavor for the class is that you bargain for the spells you prepare each day with various powers from the elemental planes, and while you have a set of spells known like a Sorcerer, you prepare them like a Wizard, and can prepare other spells outside your spells known so long as you've seen them cast and identified them with a Spellcraft check.  So, instead of paying to scribe extra spells into your spellbook, you would pay for spellcasting services in order to have seen extra spells, which you could then bargain for and prepare as though you were a Wizard.

Admittedly, it requires a Diplomacy check, but I'm assuming that's not going to be a problem in this game. ;D