Pizza now a vegetable

[Zeitgeist]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/us/politics/congress-blocks-new-rules-on-school-lunches.html?_r=1

Ridiculous of course.

How's this for a health care program: Overhaul and significantly improve each every school lunch program, and in some cases breakfast for low-income students. Make lunch time something of a nutrition class, a fun class, but a class all the same. From kindergarten to high school completely overhaul and feed these kids real and actual healthy foods. Form a committee of recent nutritionist graduates from around the country, along with economist graduates to manage the program.

No it's not a panacea, but you've got to tackle the problem on several levels, long term, mid term and short term. I bet you'd start seeing results in one or even half a generation.

If such a program were actualized, imagine, what would be the effects on health care costs over a relatively short period of time?

[Vekseid]

You need to kick the lobbyists out of the equation, first. Why should Pepsi and the corn lobby have a say in what kids eat?

That's the main thing blocking actual education regarding food.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Politics!

It's the lawmakers way of justifying taking money that should be spent on our children and using it for fun stuff instead.  When people stand up and say that healthy food and nutrition education are not important they are wrong.  Every government employee should be forced to endure a month of school lunches and be prohibited from bringing their lunch or sending out for anything.

Can they stomach some of the crap they are forcing down the throats of this country's young people?

[RubySlippers]

Of course it is its a perfect food has bread (crust), cheese (dairy), vegetables (sauce, maybe toppings) and meat (if meat is on it) in ONE delicious package - what is so bad about pizza? Kids will eat pizza what good is some casserole or some such they won't eat?

They serve sweets and other things that are far worse in many school lunch programs in my area over an innocent slice of or mini pizza.

[Haloriel]

Ugh.  When my son finally goes to school - I will make his lunches.  To think that I have a child that currently loves his fruit and veggies - and because of politics, that could be turned around and all he wants is fries?  This is just ridiculous!  Things like this really make me shake my head and wonder where we'll be in fifty years.

The fact that lobbyists/politicians care more about their money and corporations than children is a problem.  I personally don't find 20% DV of sodium, sugar, and fat innocent, but that's my personal preference - and many times its quite a bit higher.

[Zeitgeist]

Of course it is its a perfect food has bread (crust), cheese (dairy), vegetables (sauce, maybe toppings) and meat (if meat is on it) in ONE delicious package - what is so bad about pizza? Kids will eat pizza what good is some casserole or some such they won't eat?

They serve sweets and other things that are far worse in many school lunch programs in my area over an innocent slice of or mini pizza.

I think it's more of a cop out to avoid actually putting together a healthy meal by classifying pizza as a vegetable. Yes, there are worse things than pizza, but there is a whole plethora of other things that are much, much better.

[Haloriel]

I think it's more of a cop out to avoid actually putting together a healthy meal by classifying pizza as a vegetable. Yes, there are worse things than pizza, but there is a whole plethora of other things that are much, much better.

This was precisely my thought.  It's sad when they can't be bothered to give the kids better.  It really is.  I mean sure, as a parent it can be argued that 'if you want your kid to have something, you buy it.'  But that's a mentality that is woefully incomplete and in my humble opinion, rather a weak argument in regards to the big picture. :D

[RubySlippers]

Will kids eat the other options if you have a portion of pizza, say a soup that is tasty, some fruit and milk its pretty healthy especially if the pizza uses wheat for the crust and low fat cheese. And kids will likely eat that. I remember in school when they tried funny foods that looked not tasty most of it went into the garbage and the kids ate from vending machines. Or they bought something on the way to school to eat or went hungry.

Its unlikely this would be served all the time if its once a week is it that big a deal. If parents don't like it fix up lunch at home.

Is it so stupid food stamps on EBT includes how much food that is just junk seems to me a school lunch subsidized or free would be better even with the meal I noted above.

[Zeitgeist]

This was precisely my thought.  It's sad when they can't be bothered to give the kids better.  It really is.  I mean sure, as a parent it can be argued that 'if you want your kid to have something, you buy it.'  But that's a mentality that is woefully incomplete and in my humble opinion, rather a weak argument in regards to the big picture. :D

Well in my opinion the answer is to forego a large over arching federal government, and localize more of these decisions. We can much more readily hold local politicians responsible than we can those cloistered away in Washington.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Well in my opinion the answer is to forego a large over arching federal government, and localize more of these decisions. We can much more readily hold local politicians responsible than we can those cloistered away in Washington.

Unfortunately, the money needed to fund school lunches comes partly from the federal government in the form of subsidies to food processors and manufactures (yes, they manufacture food) to provide cheep (inexpensive and low quality) food for schools and other programs the federal government supports.  I know a man who works for a jail and the food the inmates are serves is higher quality than what children get in our schools.

[Zeitgeist]

Will kids eat the other options if you have a portion of pizza, say a soup that is tasty, some fruit and milk its pretty healthy especially if the pizza uses wheat for the crust and low fat cheese. And kids will likely eat that. I remember in school when they tried funny foods that looked not tasty most of it went into the garbage and the kids ate from vending machines. Or they bought something on the way to school to eat or went hungry.

Its unlikely this would be served all the time if its once a week is it that big a deal. If parents don't like it fix up lunch at home.

Is it so stupid food stamps on EBT includes how much food that is just junk seems to me a school lunch subsidized or free would be better even with the meal I noted above.

This is why I suggest nutritionists, young recent college graduates be roped into the solution. Replacing the pizza with a helping of bland broccoli isn't going to do the trick, of course. I suggest use the money and resources we plan on using for Obamacare/Healthcare overhaul and make these meals both appetizing and nutritious. And do it for each every school across the US. Leave none out.

[Zeitgeist]

Unfortunately, the money needed to fund school lunches comes partly from the federal government in the form of subsidies to food processors and manufactures (yes, they manufacture food) to provide cheep (inexpensive and low quality) food for schools and other programs the federal government supports.  I know a man who works for a jail and the food the inmates are serves is higher quality than what children get in our schools.

Indeed. I'm only saying that needs to change. I don't suggest however that would be an easy thing to do, or something not fraught with pitfalls and road blocks. But it does need to change.

Localization I think is one place those on the left and right can come together I think. At least its one I can say for myself.

[Lilias]

Anyone interested in the school food issue should watch Jamie's School Dinners, especially the bits about providing healthy alternative meals that wouldn't cost more than the junk already served.

[Zeitgeist]

Anyone interested in the school food issue should watch Jamie's School Dinners, especially the bits about providing healthy alternative meals that wouldn't cost more than the junk already served.

Yes! My teenage son actually told me about him.

Just imagine the cost savings on healthcare if his ideas were brought to bear across all schools? It may be naive to think it could happen, but I suggest its no less so than trying to provide universal coverage for everyone, and finding a way to pay for.

[Lilias]

Yes! My teenage son actually told me about him.

Just imagine the cost savings on healthcare if his ideas were brought to bear across all schools? It may be naive to think it could happen, but I suggest its no less so than trying to provide universal coverage for everyone, and finding a way to pay for.

Well, he got a lot of flak, and some is actually recorded on the show. That's why I recommend watching to the end before thinking up ways to implement anything. Profit is profit everywhere, and people are creatures of habit.

[meikle]

Will kids eat the other options if you have a portion of pizza, say a soup that is tasty, some fruit and milk its pretty healthy especially if the pizza uses wheat for the crust and low fat cheese. And kids will likely eat that. I remember in school when they tried funny foods that looked not tasty most of it went into the garbage and the kids ate from vending machines. Or they bought something on the way to school to eat or went hungry.

I'm having trouble thinking of anything that any of my schools ever served for lunch that was less appealing than their pizza.  It was like a piece of cardboard with a tiny bit of cheese and sauce drizzled on top.

[Beguile's Mistress]

This just in:

Congress has passed a resolution that bibs be issued to all diners in the Congressional cafeteria on pizza day lest they drop too much sauce on themselves and be classified as vegetables.

;D

Anyone interested in the school food issue should watch Jamie's School Dinners, especially the bits about providing healthy alternative meals that wouldn't cost more than the junk already served.

One of the best programs on TV.

[Haloriel]

I wasn't going to say, but after chatting with the husband, it made me laugh. 

Tomato = fruit.  ~grins~

[Zeitgeist]

I wasn't going to say, but after chatting with the husband, it made me laugh. 

Tomato = fruit.  ~grins~

Indeed so. From the mouths of those people we would entrust so much to.

[Lilias]

Indeed so. From the mouths of those people we would entrust so much to.

We won't be seeing 'freshly squeezed - not from concentrate' on ketchup bottles any time soon. *snickers*

[Oniya]

We won't be seeing 'freshly squeezed - not from concentrate' on ketchup bottles any time soon. *snickers*

Of course not - you have to do more than squeeze the tomatoes to get ketchup, just like you need to do more than slice the eggplant to make moussaka.  For the record, I'd count a serving of moussaka as more of a vegetable than two spoonfuls of ketchup.  ;)

Oh - and Ruby?  A properly made slice of deep-dish Chicago-style supreme pizza would easily have a decent amount of vegetables to count as a 'serving', but school pizzas consist of a 5x7 inch slab of steam-rolled bread with the aforementioned two spoonfuls of thin ketchup, a layer of 'processed cheese food', and maybe a sprinkling of something that looks like ground meat or dried-out pepperoni.

[Haloriel]

We won't be seeing 'freshly squeezed - not from concentrate' on ketchup bottles any time soon. *snickers*

~giggles~  No, we certainly won't.

Of course not - you have to do more than squeeze the tomatoes to get ketchup, just like you need to do more than slice the eggplant to make moussaka.  For the record, I'd count a serving of moussaka as more of a vegetable than two spoonfuls of ketchup.  ;)

Oh - and Ruby?  A properly made slice of deep-dish Chicago-style supreme pizza would easily have a decent amount of vegetables to count as a 'serving', but school pizzas consist of a 5x7 inch slab of steam-rolled bread with the aforementioned two spoonfuls of thin ketchup, a layer of 'processed cheese food', and maybe a sprinkling of something that looks like ground meat or dried-out pepperoni.

Precisely.  Public school lunches are a complete failure in regards to nutrition and general tastiness, in my opinion.  I feel especially bad for the schools that have less budget than others!  I wouldn't give some of that stuff to my cat.  I'll probably end up being that parent that takes all of my son's friends out for a REAL lunch once a week LOL - presuming their parents didn't mind.  O:) 

[Iniquitous]

Sorry, pizza is not a vegetable. And the pizza they serve in school certainly has no vegetables on it. I still vividly remember my high school lunches. Two entrée options, one of which was always cheese pizza. They didn’t even have pepperoni on it, and it tasted like greasy cardboard. And nearly every child chose the pizza as their entrée. The one concession to nutrition that my school made (and was successful with) was a salad bar.

As for potatoes/fries? Sorry, it might be a vegetable but it is not a ‘good’ vegetable. The carbohydrates in potatoes turns to sugar in the body roughly 2 hours after eating - thus not the best thing in the world for kids to eat a lot of. Add in that fries are fried with a lot of oil and it is even worse for the body.

But, this isn’t the first time Congress has declared something a vegetable that common sense says isn’t. Late 1981, Reagan administration, Congress declared ketchup a vegetable - hence the ‘tomato paste on pizza is a vegetable’ thing now.

It’s sad and one of the reasons that I made my kids’ lunches for as long as I could get them to agree to carrying their lunch in.

[Izzie Aditi]

Wait...they serve(d)PIZZA at your schools?! They served brown bread with either cheese or some kind of meat at my primary school if you hadn't brought your own. *puzzled look* I'm not even that old, primary school was..ehh..16 years ago for me ??? ???

* Izzie Aditi looks around in confusion.

edit: I'm not American, but still. WHAT?!

[Lilias]

In Greek schools there was no lunchtime. In my day, we had morning and afternoon shifts, so we were either out by 1.30 or went in at 2pm, so lunch was always at home. There was just a canteen with snacks (like crisps and doughnuts) for break time. Those have been upgraded since.

At my son's preschool, afternoon shifts are required to bring their own packed lunch (morning shifts are offered snacks and a drink), and we were warned at the beginning that sweets were not allowed and would be confiscated.

[Oniya]

Just as a bit of useless trivia (I've been slacking recently), the reason that the tomato is defined as a vegetable was because of a tax on fruits back in the late 1800's.  The Supreme Court got involved and decided that since tomatoes are generally served as part of dinner, and rarely or never as dessert, they could be classified as vegetables and therefore avoided the tax. 

However, in 2009, Ohio passed a law declaring it our state fruit.  I wonder if that means that the tomato sauce on our school pizzas is considered a fruit instead? O:)

[Haloriel]

In Greek schools there was no lunchtime. In my day, we had morning and afternoon shifts, so we were either out by 1.30 or went in at 2pm, so lunch was always at home. There was just a canteen with snacks (like crisps and doughnuts) for break time. Those have been upgraded since.

At my son's preschool, afternoon shifts are required to bring their own packed lunch (morning shifts are offered snacks and a drink), and we were warned at the beginning that sweets were not allowed and would be confiscated.

Ooh!  But that's so cool, going home for lunch!  :D  I'd totally let as many children fit come over that I could manage to cook for!  Not allowing sweets?  This has my FULL support.

I adore your trivia, Oniya. :)

[Beguile's Mistress]

Some schools here have the same prohibitions.  They don't allow cookies or cupcakes for birthday celebrations and surgary drinks are banned as well.  Fruit and cut up vegetables are encouraged for snacks and nuts are not allowed due to allergies.

[Iniquitous]

However, in 2009, Ohio passed a law declaring it our state fruit.  I wonder if that means that the tomato sauce on our school pizzas is considered a fruit instead? O:)

The tomato is our state fruit?? *scratches her head* Didn't know that! I still have a hard time calling it a fruit though - I think of fruit as that yummy, sweet, good stuff - grapes, kiwi, strawberries, bananas, etc.

[Oniya]

In the past couple hours, I've actually found a couple of recipes for tomato-based desserts - including a riff off of Lemon Curd bars (since lemon is similarly acidic) and a Campbell's Tomato Soup cake.

[Lilias]

In Greece we make tomato preserve. Through my English husband I've learned about an infamous recipe for tomato ice cream, but don't ask me to relay that.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I wasn't going to say, but after chatting with the husband, it made me laugh. 

Tomato = fruit.  ~grins~

Okay!  I'm writing my Congressperson!  I want 2 tablespoons of jelly, that overly sweetened, sugar and corn syrup laden condiment, labeled as a serving of fruit.  That makes a jelly doughnut healthy!

[consortium11]

Just as a bit of useless trivia (I've been slacking recently), the reason that the tomato is defined as a vegetable was because of a tax on fruits back in the late 1800's.  The Supreme Court got involved and decided that since tomatoes are generally served as part of dinner, and rarely or never as dessert, they could be classified as vegetables and therefore avoided the tax. 

Hence the all-important question; is a Jaffa Cake a cake or a biscuit?

(The answers a cake by the way... at least partially due to the way it changes when stale).

Or more recently whether Lucozade was a food or a drink...

[SinXAzgard21]

-Shakes head-

So... How many children need to die of heart attacks before the government actually understands that frozen pizza, deep deep fried french fries and a highly carbonated high fructose corn syrup beverage is not something that children need?

[RubySlippers]

Its funny Target at the Cafe has an uberfast cooker they make BAKED Crinkle Fries in around two-three minutes. Maybe the reason schools have fried foods is the cooking times are to long for the number of mouths to feed. Maybe its the equipment in some cases not up to the demand.

And I also have to add where are the parents in this, even if they say pizza is a vegetable and french fries are okay its the implemented at the state and local level a state could enforce a low that you can't serve any fried food, and meals must certain nutritional limits. They might have to opt out of Federal funding then parents and the community will need to raise property taxes or something that is all and then no more Federal demands. Simple. But no one will do that since they don't care to.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I think the problem is that parents are lazy and will feed their kids anything just because they'll eat it.

There are many good parents who are overworked and/or under funded and are pretty much stuck in a bad situation and there are parents who have the time and resources to provide a more balanced diet for their children.  Any parent can try to substitute one school lunch with a healthier meal but some are just plain lazy or thoughtless and feel the kid whatever they'll eat rather than teach them to eat properly.

[Oniya]

You also have to consider that the free/reduced lunch program is sometimes the only source of something approaching nutrition for children in poverty-stricken areas.   And before you start saying that 'all' the parents need to do is start paying more in property taxes, you should look at how much you - personally - are currently paying in property taxes.  Then ask if you'd be willing to pay more so that school lunches could be improved.

[Valerian]

Also consider that in some areas, raising property taxes to offer more funding to schools isn't even an option anymore.  Wisconsin Emperor in his own mind Governor Scott Walker has pushed through a law that freezes property tax rates at the current level for two years.  It literally isn't possible to raise taxes by more than the percentage of net increase in new construction -- which, in these tough times, is likely to be almost nothing.  Estimates are currently running at a maximum increase of 0.4% to 0.8% (compared to the previous cap of 3% per year), which won't get school kitchens better equipment or better food, I would venture to say.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I would gladly pay higher taxes to properly feed our children if I knew the additional revenue collected would be put to that use.  Funding to our schools has been cut by Federal, State and Local governments and subsidies to food producers have either stayed the same or risen. 

We're all caught in a round robin of misappropriation and deceipt on the part of the food companies and legislators who are brought together by lobbyists.  I would rather go to the school and organize fundraisers and find local companies and/or restaurants to donate time and goods to provide at least one decent meal a week for these kids.  That kind of thing is discouraged, though.  One of our volunteer groups tried to do that and our local school district threatened legal action against us.

[RubySlippers]

Also consider that in some areas, raising property taxes to offer more funding to schools isn't even an option anymore.  Wisconsin Emperor in his own mind Governor Scott Walker has pushed through a law that freezes property tax rates at the current level for two years.  It literally isn't possible to raise taxes by more than the percentage of net increase in new construction -- which, in these tough times, is likely to be almost nothing.  Estimates are currently running at a maximum increase of 0.4% to 0.8% (compared to the previous cap of 3% per year), which won't get school kitchens better equipment or better food, I would venture to say.

Our county added a Penny Sales Tax for public projects, you could do that in  county say a Penny for School Fitness (for food programs and phy ed and maybe a few more school nurses). Its not a property tax and therefore the governors and state legislatures would have little to do with it. I would pay that if its earmarked for these things only very carefully.

Its not easy to come up with money but it seems an issue that has to be addressed. The reason Pizza Hut can be in some schools is the school gets money for the access for other things and another even had a McDonalds. Now I have nothing against them and if you go with the idea to eat healthier you can but for lack of money they cowed to them I'm sure.

[Oniya]

By the way - here's the ingredient list of the standard school lunch pizza, brought to you by the lobbyists at ConAgra:

http://www.conagrafoodservice.com/ProductDetail.do?productUpc=7738712075 ('Cheese')

http://www.conagrafoodservice.com/ProductDetail.do?productUpc=7738712076  (Pepperoni, reduced fat)

[Beguile's Mistress]

Interesting how they expect you to measure the internal temperature of pizza.

Also, if a serving size of fruits and vegetables is approximately 1/2 cup then 1/8 cup of sauce is 1/4 of a serving.  You need to eat 4 slices of pizza to get a full serving.  The sodium in one slice is 39% of RDA. 

Ye gods!  These people are idiots.  ???  >:(  ???  >:(

[The Dark Raven]

The only thing that frightens me for when I have kids is something I've heard happening around here.

They've been banning peanut butter.

So, they're telling me that, because of a kid's allergy, my child is not allowed to eat a peanut butter sandwich?  What if my child only eats peanut butter, three meals a day (I could see this happening due to my family's love of peanut butter)?  So my kid is supposed to skip lunch so some kid doesn't break out in hives?  *facepalm*

I don't understand what this world is coming to....lol

[Avis habilis]

So my kid is supposed to skip lunch so some kid doesn't break out in hives?  *facepalm*

No. So some kid doesn't die.

Reactions to peanut allergies can be incredibly violent & fast. We're talking anaphylaxis & death within minutes. The allergic kid doesn't even need to have consumed the peanuts. There have been recorded cases of people with shellfish allergies being killed by inhaling compounds volatilizing off a plate of seared calamari being carried past their seat in a restaurant. Which isn't peanut butter, true, but just goes to show how dangerous food allergies can be.

[Oniya]

The problem with peanut allergies is that it's frequently not just hives.  It can be throat-closing, full-on, 'grab the Epi-pen or die' anaphylaxis.  Nut allergies in general can be quite severe, even to the point of having peanut oil in the air (like from opening a jar of peanut butter or having the kid down the table talking with their mouth full) can cause some reaction. 

Ninja.  :P ;)
There was a woman I heard of on the news who had to move because her neighbor wouldn't stop putting peanuts out for the squirrels.

This is why they don't give out peanuts on airplanes any more.

[Beguile's Mistress]

*nods*

I went to school with a kid who nearly died because a mother sent cupcakes for a birthday party and swore there was not peanut product in them.  She said she checked with the bakery.  She lied.  She thought the whole thing was stupid.

[Oniya]

I hope she felt bad afterwards.  Mr. Oniya and I have various friends with food allergies - and various friends who simply have aversions.  The former, we are very cautious about food prep when we eat with them.  The latter - it depends on how ridiculous the aversion is.  One guy we lived with before we were married was a fungi-phobe.  He'd be fine eating something until he saw any hint of a mushroom, at which point he'd put the dish at arm's length and have nothing further to do with it.  (No hives, no meds, no nothing.)  We used to joke about 'planting' words in the front yard, fairy-ring style.

[Beguile's Mistress]

She's one of those yahoos that doesn't take responsibility for anything.  She blamed the kid that got sick.  In the end the schoold banned  her from bring food in for anything and if her son brought his lunch he had to hand it to the homeroom teacher who had to supervise him so he didn't give food to other kids. 

Some people just don't care.

[The Dark Raven]

No. So some kid doesn't die.

Reactions to peanut allergies can be incredibly violent & fast. We're talking anaphylaxis & death within minutes. The allergic kid doesn't even need to have consumed the peanuts. There have been recorded cases of people with shellfish allergies being killed by inhaling compounds volatilizing off a plate of seared calamari being carried past their seat in a restaurant. Which isn't peanut butter, true, but just goes to show how dangerous food allergies can be.

Ah I see.

I will just have to make the decision to let my child go 8 hours without food if they only eat peanut butter.

I hardly see how that's fair, but again, I know that the possibility that a child will only eat peanut butter is a rarity.  I'm just befuddled, as I usually am, by the change in the world.  I tihnk I would much rather live in a simpler time and place, where things like allergies aren't a big deal (in other words, in a world where I could breathe freely every day...but I can't tell the pollen to stop).

But again, I think folks also missed my attempt to lighten my original post with a laugh, since everyone seems to take my words to heart so quickly and I turn out a villian in everything.  This is getting to be so normal, its creepy.  >.>

[Avis habilis]

I hardly see how that's fair, but again, I know that the possibility that a child will only eat peanut butter is a rarity.

Yeah, where do these self-centered little snots get off demanding that their school environment not be life-threatening. Of all the nerve.

[The Dark Raven]

This leads me to the thought that I probably just need to homeschool my children, instead of force them to live by someone else's leave.  *shrug*

But, I see that my posts are angering folks too much with my naivite, so I think I'll refrain from now on.

[Zakharra]

No. So some kid doesn't die.

Reactions to peanut allergies can be incredibly violent & fast. We're talking anaphylaxis & death within minutes. The allergic kid doesn't even need to have consumed the peanuts. There have been recorded cases of people with shellfish allergies being killed by inhaling compounds volatilizing off a plate of seared calamari being carried past their seat in a restaurant. Which isn't peanut butter, true, but just goes to show how dangerous food allergies can be.

That has to be in extremely rare cases., I highly doubt that would be for the majority of food allergies. By smell? Seriously?    At some point this PC attitude of removing 'dangerous things' gets too stupid to even think about. Yet it still happens , so fun activities  interesting  and tasty foods are removed from the public because of 'safety' concerned. Like wiffleball, dodgeball, playgrounds a kid can play on, and such.

I know that food allergies can be lethal, but there's a lot of overreaction to how we deal with it by the governments and businesses.

[Lilias]

This leads me to the thought that I probably just need to homeschool my children, instead of force them to live by someone else's leave.  *shrug*

Avoiding something that puts someone else in danger until one is out of their presence is not exactly 'living by someone else's leave'. It's common courtesy.

Rather than homeschooling (which I'm violently opposed to, but that's another story for another thread) to cater to a whim, it would be more proactive in the long run to make sure that children are comfortable with as great a variety of foods as possible.

[Haloriel]

I personally do not allow my child to eat just one thing - though I have a niece and nephews that ARE that picky.  The rule in our home is three full bites before you can actually decide you do not like the food.  90% of the time the husband and I win.  My toddler eats salad, for example. :D  You just have to make introducing food fun for them, I say.

As to allergies?  I'm glad that things like that are considered.  So much less senseless death, and I say this as a chronic asthmatic.  One could take the same argument and apply it to anything that protects children, disabled people, the elderly.

Like I knew a little boy that was allergic to nuts, wheat, eggs, and dairy.  His poor folks were overworked trying to explain to the school why he couldn't have this, that and the other thing.  Poor baby.

It's not about fair, its about making sure some child doesn't die on someone else's watch.  I mean - I just can't see how the word fair can even come into the equation when its life and death, but that's just my two cents. :)

It's also not about 'PC attitudes' for me.  It's about caring more about those around you than just yourself, your life, and realising everyone has problems and crises to deal with just as we ourselves do. 

The best adage:  'Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.'  While there are wonderful things about the past - there are also very ugly, unpleasant things to the past.  I'm generally all for being kind, and considerate to the needs of everyone so long as it doesn't cause true harm to another person.  I think that should be the way the world works, but what do I know?   O:)

[Beguile's Mistress]

Go to Google and type in - law suit peanut allergy - and you'll see part of the reason why it's a problem.  Schools ban peanut products to protect children because kids share even when told not to and a small amount of peanut butter can kill a kid. 

I somehow think that if it was MY kid with the allergy I'd appreciate the caution. 

[auroraChloe]

oh god.. this subject.   i remember school pizza.. it was a slab of nasty ass dough with a table spoon of ketchup-like sauce and some low grade shredded cheese on it.  far from a vegetable. 

it's just easier and cheaper than figuring out how to get a REAL vegetable into a meal.  i think this travesty can be alleviated some on the local level if the school system isn't in a completely poor area and the parents/PTA actually give a crap enough to do something about it.

imo, this targets the poorest systems, who can't afford to fix a better lunch at home... keeping them on the conveyor belt of obesity, ignorance and apathy.



my goddaughter was highly allergic to apples the first few years of her life.  her mother had to fight to get a no-apple table in her school.  i assumed other allergies were handled the same way, no-peanut-table, etc...   peanut butter was a staple in school lunch when i was a kid   :-\

[Oniya]

But again, I think folks also missed my attempt to lighten my original post with a laugh, since everyone seems to take my words to heart so quickly and I turn out a villian in everything.  This is getting to be so normal, its creepy.  >.>

:-\  We are in the P&R board.  It tends to be a bit more 'serious' here.

For what it's worth, I didn't see you as a 'villain' - just someone who might not realize how severe a peanut allergy could be.  As for missing the laugh - blame the tweens out there who seem to equate 'lol' with punctuation. 

[Oniya]

oh god.. this subject.   i remember school pizza.. it was a slab of nasty ass dough with a table spoon of ketchup-like sauce and some low grade shredded cheese on it.  far from a vegetable. 

it's just easier and cheaper than figuring out how to get a REAL vegetable into a meal.  i think this travesty can be alleviated some on the local level if the school system isn't in a completely poor area and the parents/PTA actually give a crap enough to do something about it.

imo, this targets the poorest systems, who can't afford to fix a better lunch at home... keeping them on the conveyor belt of obesity, ignorance and apathy.

It really does - these are the same areas where the parents can't afford to pay 'extra property taxes' (as someone suggested upthread) - assuming that they even own property (I'm not sure you pay property tax if you live in an apartment), and don't have the resources to get into co-operative agreements with local food producers (our school has a 'local foods Wednesday' thing, because we're surrounded by farmland).

[Haloriel]

:-\  We are in the P&R board.  It tends to be a bit more 'serious' here.

For what it's worth, I didn't see you as a 'villain' - just someone who might not realize how severe a peanut allergy could be.  As for missing the laugh - blame the tweens out there who seem to equate 'lol' with punctuation.

Likewise.  There are a lot of people that simply do not know just because its something they haven't seen themselves - and much less due to not caring. :)

Just like there were a ton of things I didn't know before having a child.  The list is probably ridiculous, and I'll certainly say my tolerance for quite a lot of things is much higher!  ;D

PBJ was rather a staple when I was a child also.  But for my end its something we try not to give to the boy so much.  Variety is good.  There are so many kinds of awesome food out there and when children try them, it makes for a well rounded palate later in life, I think. :D

[Haloriel]

It really does - these are the same areas where the parents can't afford to pay 'extra property taxes' (as someone suggested upthread) - assuming that they even own property (I'm not sure you pay property tax if you live in an apartment), and don't have the resources to get into co-operative agreements with local food producers (our school has a 'local foods Wednesday' thing, because we're surrounded by farmland).

Oh!  I saw this and had to comment again.  The local foods deal is very cool!  I've heard of some places doing that, but they seem to be in the minority.  Fact is, there are just too many people - and its probably to a degree a world wide deal - that simply don't see 'what's wrong with harmless pizza'.  It's not the food item itself, its the way its made.  Now if they were feeding our children the real deal that comes out of Naples or some similar place, packed with veggies and natural cheese ... and most importantly not letting them over eat?

That's great!  But then we have a whole separate problem of spreading the wealth around equally - which is for a whole different thread, in my opinion.

I really think that the best we can do is like another poster said.  Get on the PTA and press to make changes at your local level for the children in your own neighbourhood.  Perhaps if enough people do that ... someday, and very slowly change will happen.  But more people need to care to be active.

Because I can certainly say those same politicians wouldn't eat that nonsense they want those children in poor places to eat, not to even think of sending their own children to low income schools for a month or two.  ~faintly wicked smile~

[auroraChloe]

PBJ was rather a staple when I was a child also.  But for my end its something we try not to give to the boy so much.  Variety is good.  There are so many kinds of awesome food out there and when children try them, it makes for a well rounded palate later in life, I think. :D

and choosey mothers choose not to buy into the brand advertising, going with unadulterated stuff not loaded with added sugar and crap.   :-\

i can't imagine fighting that marketing machine all the time   :o

[Haloriel]

and choosey mothers choose not to buy into the brand advertising, going with unadulterated stuff not loaded with added sugar and crap.   :-\

i can't imagine fighting that marketing machine all the time   :o

It's really hard.  Especially as my son is smart enough to see advertisements ONCE and he remembers them and doesn't understand why I will NOT buy that stuff! :D  We're not perfect by any means, but I do what I can. Hopefully he'll remain like Dad and his favourite food will be carrots forever!  ;)

[auroraChloe]

Hopefully he'll remain like Dad and his favourite food will be carrots forever!  ;)

so...  you've taken up with Bugs Bunny?    :P


/hijack   

[Envious]

What if my child only eats peanut butter, three meals a day (I could see this happening due to my family's love of peanut butter)?  So my kid is supposed to skip lunch so some kid doesn't break out in hives?  *facepalm*

Ha!

[Lilias]

Hopefully he'll remain like Dad and his favourite food will be carrots forever!  ;)

Mine loves carrots as well. And raw pepper - he chomped down an entire orange one just this afternoon (orange is his favourite colour). That doesn't stop him being a pasta fiend like myself, though. It was hard, when unemployment was gnawing a bit too close to our bones and we were literally counting pennies to put food on the table, not to give him noodles for lunch every day. He loves them, and they're only 11p a pack - way too tempting! It's hard to eat right all the time, but it pays off in family peace not to allow kids to be over-fussy.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Most of my friends' kids eat pretty much everything.  But I have to laugh at the one boy who at the age of two decided broccoli was the enemy.  I watched them one evening when the parents had a business dinner to attend and caught him trying to hide the broccoli under his plate.

[auroraChloe]

Most of my friends' kids eat pretty much everything.  But I have to laugh at the one boy who at the age of two decided broccoli was the enemy.  I watched them one evening when the parents had a business dinner to attend and caught him trying to hide the broccoli under his plate.

i won't eat lima beans to this day.  *shudders*

[Haloriel]

Most of my friends' kids eat pretty much everything.  But I have to laugh at the one boy who at the age of two decided broccoli was the enemy.  I watched them one evening when the parents had a business dinner to attend and caught him trying to hide the broccoli under his plate.

Haha!  That's so funny. :D  My son likes broccoli ... sometimes.  If he doesn't want something he'll cover his eyes.  And that's usually when Dad will distract him and I'll coax him to eat!  Suddenly he wants more, go figure.  My little one, for example, loves feta cheese.  But he's not so into Gouda.  ~wink~

Pasta here is also a norm, but we try to be careful with it!  Ooh.  I hate Lima beans with a fiery enduring passion that will never abate to the end of time.
~nods~  And cauliflower.  But I like broccoli and other things.  Though sometimes I have to bite the bullet and pretend that I like ... carrots.  I mean, telling my son its yucky will NOT help.  It's often a joke in our household. :D

[Slywyn]

I can't read the whole thread (on a phone, and lunch for that matter) so it's probably been brought up, but you do realize that they mean that the tomato sauce ON the pizza can be considered a SERVING of vegetables, as far as school lunch is concerned? And only if it's a certain amount of sauce.

They aren't saying that pizza itself as a whole is a vegetable. That would amount to calling something like stir fry a meat because it MIGHT have meat in it somewhere.

[Zeitgeist]

i won't eat lima beans to this day.  *shudders*

Oh! Now Lima Beans with a pat o' butter and some ground pepper, delicious! I really haven't met a bean I haven't liked truth be told.

[Oniya]

I can't read the whole thread (on a phone, and lunch for that matter) so it's probably been brought up, but you do realize that they mean that the tomato sauce ON the pizza can be considered a SERVING of vegetables, as far as school lunch is concerned? And only if it's a certain amount of sauce.

They aren't saying that pizza itself as a whole is a vegetable. That would amount to calling something like stir fry a meat because it MIGHT have meat in it somewhere.

The amount of sauce that they are talking about - that is supposedly 'sufficient' to be considered a 'serving' is two tablespoons.  This is about the size of a whole walnut in the shell.  By contrast, the recommended serving size for fruits and vegetables is about a half a cup - the size of the 'bulb' part of a light bulb, or a rounded handful.

http://web.mit.edu/athletics/sportsmedicine/wcrservings.html

[RubySlippers]

Are people saying here a portion of pizza cannot be part of a healthy lunch from time to time? I sometimes have a slice with a salad, diet pepsi and a glass of water (my main beverage but I like diet pepsi for the meal proper) with something like a fruit cup. Am I eating badly or its not ideal but provides a suitable balanced meal on occassion?

I think its fine to have fun foods I do think they overdo it and fry when baking would be healthier. But isn't much of this a school system issue they are the ones that hire the staff to prepare the food and they should be expected to be healthier. And its the lack of funding that force schools to allow vending machines, bring in fast food places and such that is not the food prep peoples fault its the systems fault.

[Oniya]

Ruby, did you even look at the descriptions of the school pizzas?  Did you look at the ingredients?  Have you compared that to the pizza that you would choose for yourself?

This is what they are talking about.

[Slywyn]

The amount of sauce that they are talking about - that is supposedly 'sufficient' to be considered a 'serving' is two tablespoons.  This is about the size of a whole walnut in the shell.  By contrast, the recommended serving size for fruits and vegetables is about a half a cup - the size of the 'bulb' part of a light bulb, or a rounded handful.

http://web.mit.edu/athletics/sportsmedicine/wcrservings.html

I'm aware of the sizes. =) Just pointing out that they're not saying that pizza as a whole is a vegetable. They're talking about the tomato sauce WITHIN it.

[auroraChloe]

the point being that the lunch lady will continue to get "credit for serving vegetables" by serving a slice of pizza. 

some schools will serve a side salad or some other veg, but quite a few more will not.

if i understand correctly, they blocked the need for it to even be equal to a 1/4 cup of sauce.  in my world that is only HALF a serving of veg anyway, and i've never seen that much sauce on one serving of pizza. 

[Oniya]

As I said upthread, the only pizza I've seen that had a full serving of veggies on it was a Chicago-style deep-dish supreme.  The veggies in that case consisted of the sauce, the peppers, mushrooms, and the onions (I think olives still fall under 'fruit', but they were present as well.)  Easily a quarter-cup.  There was probably a full serving of meat and dairy in there, too, all things considered. 

If a school pizza looked like this:



I'd consider that 'serving vegetables'.

And now I'm hungry, dammit.

[Missy]

As I said upthread, the only pizza I've seen that had a full serving of veggies on it was a Chicago-style deep-dish supreme.  The veggies in that case consisted of the sauce, the peppers, mushrooms, and the onions (I think olives still fall under 'fruit', but they were present as well.)  Easily a quarter-cup.  There was probably a full serving of meat and dairy in there, too, all things considered. 

If a school pizza looked like this:



I'd consider that 'serving vegetables'.

And now I'm hungry, dammit.

Do they have one with shrimp on it? I'm moving to chicago.

[Oniya]

All the Chicago-style pizza I've had has been in other states (Pizzeria Uno is nom.)  I've never seen shrimp pizza, but then again, I've never looked.  I think I'd skip the cheese and go with either an alfredo or marinara sauce on that pie.

[Haloriel]

Uno?  Oh man.  I went to the the one in Chicago on North Wabash (Millennium Mile) a few years ago.  It was awesome. :D  The crowd was so worth it.  Do I smell a road trip in my future?  Hehe!

[RubySlippers]

Ruby, did you even look at the descriptions of the school pizzas?  Did you look at the ingredients?  Have you compared that to the pizza that you would choose for yourself?

This is what they are talking about.

I love CiCi's all-u-can-eat pizza buffet for $4.99, so yes I would eat that. And you can improve the pizza if that is the issue with a wheat crust, lowfat cheese and other ingrediants I went to a private school we had decent pizza. And our lunch per week price was not any higher than the public schools.

[Caeli]

I love CiCi's all-u-can-eat pizza buffet for $4.99, so yes I would eat that. And you can improve the pizza if that is the issue with a wheat crust, lowfat cheese and other ingrediants I went to a private school we had decent pizza. And our lunch per week price was not any higher than the public schools.

First: a privately-owned restaurant is not the same as a public school kitchen.

Second: you went to a private school, which probably means that tuition probably factors in somewhere when you're talking about cost of attending school.

Third: because of the estimated difference in the amount of money a private school and public school gets, I'd say it's reasonable that even if your "lunch per week price" was no higher than a public school's, your private school was probably absorbing some of the cost.

Fourth: public schools get funding from the state, and public school employees are paid by the state. I'm not going to go into the different hiring requirements between public school employees and private school employees, because I'm not an expert, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that those who work in a private school probably have more incentive and more funds for cooking school lunches.

[Caeli]

As I said upthread, the only pizza I've seen that had a full serving of veggies on it was a Chicago-style deep-dish supreme.  The veggies in that case consisted of the sauce, the peppers, mushrooms, and the onions (I think olives still fall under 'fruit', but they were present as well.)  Easily a quarter-cup.  There was probably a full serving of meat and dairy in there, too, all things considered. 

If a school pizza looked like this:



I'd consider that 'serving vegetables'.

And now I'm hungry, dammit.

Most pizza places I've gone to don't make their food with that many toppings. :P That's not even speaking of school pizzas.

I remember what mine looked like from high school; your image of the rectangle was a dead ringer.

I got reduced-price lunches, but I never ate the pizza because it was that disgusting.

[Oreo]

As I said upthread, the only pizza I've seen that had a full serving of veggies on it was a Chicago-style deep-dish supreme.  The veggies in that case consisted of the sauce, the peppers, mushrooms, and the onions (I think olives still fall under 'fruit', but they were present as well.)  Easily a quarter-cup.  There was probably a full serving of meat and dairy in there, too, all things considered. 

If a school pizza looked like this:



I'd consider that 'serving vegetables'.

And now I'm hungry, dammit.

That is exactly what pizza looks like at my house. I always make my own. Sometimes I even get teased that it really 'is' a pie. I agree that only would I call pizza that looked like that a full and healthy meal. I know I was happier buying an apple from the vending machine, while in school, than eating in the cafeteria. The quality of food served is nothing new. It has always been sub nutritious.

[Caeli]

That is exactly what pizza looks like at my house. I always make my own. Sometimes I even get teased that it really 'is' a pie. I agree that only would I call pizza that looked like that a full and healthy meal. I know I was happier buying an apple from the vending machine, while in school, than eating in the cafeteria. The quality of food served is nothing new. It has always been sub nutritious.

Off topic: That sounds delicious, Oreo! Make me pizza sometime. ♥

On topic: Not precisely related to the entire pizza and vegetable topic, but I remember when I was still in school, there were also vending machines all over the place that sold drinks with disgusting amounts of sugar (and equivalents) in them, a.k.a. soda, and all the vending machines had were oily/greasy snacks like potato chips.

I wonder if that has changed since.

[Oreo]

It was the 70's when I was in school and we had two vending machines. One had juice and the other had apples and oranges. I used to rush  there first thing off the bus in the morning to get my apple. They were always gone by lunch time. [/hijack]

[consortium11]

Do they have one with shrimp on it? I'm moving to chicago.

Pizza Hut South Korea is here to save you

Korean Pizza Shrimp Roll Pizza CM

On/Off topic.

As people have said previously in the thread there's nothing intrinsically unhealthy about a pizza... in a well made, healthy one you have complex carbs from the base, lean protein from the meat and a good serving of veggies... in the same way as there's nothing intrinsically unhealthy about a beefburger (once again, protein...albeit slightly fatty for the taste... veg and complex carbs).

Thinking that schools are going to be serving that sort of food is a pipe dream.

[Zeitgeist]

This is what they are talking about.

That's got vegetable written all over it lol

[Oniya]

No - this has vegetable written all over it.

(Couldn't resist)

[Haloriel]

LOL!  Oniya. :D  I think I would eat that other one though that looked like a REAL pizza pie. 

[Serephino]

No, pizza once in a while isn't a horrible thing.  But I remember school lunches, and breakfast.  Whatever was the cheapest and easiest.  I ate breakfast at school and all through high school every day they served 'super doughnuts'.  They were pre-packaged doughnuts enriched with nutrients.  Though, once in a while we got pop tarts or funnel cakes.  Yes, you read right, my school served funnel cakes for breakfast.

Every Friday was pizza.  They did serve a little bowl of lettuce and called it salad.  Then it was things like grilled cheese, burgers, chicken patties...  The one good thing they did do was you could order a chef salad in home room. 

I do remember once they made turkey wraps a few days after they served turkey hoagies.  Pretty much everyone who ate them got sick.  I have a pretty good idea why.       

[Zeitgeist]

No - this has vegetable written all over it.


(Couldn't resist)

I presume you used an illustrator pen to do that? How many tries did it take you? :)

[Oniya]

I used Paintshop Pro (the old shareware version) a size 10 round Brush tool, and it only took about three or four tries (once the mouse slipped, once it looked too small, and I think there was one where it just looked too wobbly.)