Liberty 2012

[Mr Self Destruct]

Despite your own personal political leanings, this message is quite clear and one that needs to be heard.

http//youtu.be/VuCaWYvpVZg

But as the people in the video are under 18, you'll have to adjust the link to see it by adding a colon after the http for it to take you to YouTube.

I hope everyone can understand just how important this is to these kids.  This is their future.  The decision in November is for them. 

Let's make the right one.

[Stattick]

Running commentary while watching the vid:


Yeah... that's it, we should all get our political advice from teenagers.  ::)

Also, overly dramatic music is overly dramatic.

Hey, that kid can't talk about Saint Reagan! He wasn't even alive when Reagan was president.



LMAO at the girl crying while holding the flag!

[Mr Self Destruct]

These kids are learning whats at stake.  I remember when I was their age and my eyes were first opened to what was going on in the greater world around me.  I knew that I would have to make a decision at some point, as to where my loyalties lie.  These kids have made their decision and I can't help but respect them for it.

That music is nothing compared to the attack ads run by the Obama administration.

Freedom of speech ensures that these kids can talk about whomever they want, no matter how the left tries to limit free speech.

What's funny about watching your country and its values being corrupted?

[Stattick]

What's funny about watching your country and its values being corrupted?

*sigh* There you go again.

[Mr Self Destruct]

It's going on all around us.  And I can't seriously believe that I'm the only one seeing it.

But that isn't the point of this thread.  That video is pretty inspiring, and it's refreshing to see young people get involved in politics again.  There isn't much of that these days.

[Callie Del Noire]

I see a jingoistic effort to tug at my heart strings and a call to ignore the actions of a party who in the last year tried to engineer a crisis that in part cost us part of our credit rating as a nation, that has pushed for the removal of patient privacy, curtailed reproductive choice while refusing to accept that they are persecuting one gender.

I have seen a party sooooo tied up in knots that we have candidates running who insist that rape doesn't cause pregnancy (when it's LEGITIMATE), who refuse to debate any issue they think is important and refuse to meet halfway. Who while insisting they want smaller government, see NOTHING wrong in invading a woman's body to ensure she is properly traumatized for the sin of wanting an abortion. We have men wearing the flag colors, calling themselves constitutionalists while declaring slavery wasn't that bad or that we deport all Muslims.

Get rid of the Tea party, stop distracting issues with moral conservative stands, accept that EVERYONE has to pay taxes (and more of them) and admit that the road to recovery requires a stronger education system, less corporate welfare and a bit more regulation in some areas and make politicians accountable for their actions.

Break up the banks, reinstate Glass-Steagall and the break up big Media. Too few control too much.

[Serephino]

Ummm, excuse me, who ran up 13 trillion dollars in deficit?  Who gave the big banks the first bailout with no strings attached that ended up being given out as bonuses?  Who started two wars we couldn't afford?  Who decided to try and fix the recession by just sending everyone in the country a check?  Who wants to make abortion illegal, even if the woman is raped?  Who tried to pass such legislation several times?  Who did pass legislation which forces a woman to have an invasive ultra sound and listen to religious slanted bullshit before getting an abortion?  Who promised to repeal 'Obamacare' right away, but ended up too busy legislating womens' reproductive rights and cutting social welfare to the bone, screwing over all the people who lost their jobs even more?  Who held the entire government hostage over Bush tax cuts for the wealthy?  Who is trying to trample all over religion freedom for those of us who are not Christian? 

The answer to all of these questions is not just political viewpoint.  It is fact.  It is what really happened.  President Bush signed off on the first bailout.  President Bush started the Iraq clusterfuck that spread our military way too thin.  President Bush came into office with a $200k surplus, and left with a $13.7 trillion deficit.  President Bush flushed billions down the hole by mailing everyone a stimulus check that didn't do a damn bit of good. 

Most Republican candidates from 2010 promised to repeal 'Obamacare' the very first thing if they were elected.  What did they do instead?  Well, first, the ensured the Bush tax cuts for the top 1% were safe.  Then they started attacking reproductive rights under the guise of religious freedom.  I'm sorry, but I'm Pagan, and if I want to use birth control, and I need my insurance to cover it, I don't give two shits how my employer feels about it.  If it is against my employer's beliefs to use birth control, then he or she is free to exercise that belief on his/her own body.  My employer has no fucking right to tell me what I can or cannot do because of his/her beliefs.  All that should matter when it comes to my personal life and my body are MY beliefs.

Small rant aside, two states passed laws where any woman seeking an abortion must have an ultrasound, and must look at it.  That is called 'slut shaming', and if you ask me, it's not a very Christian thing to do.  It was originally supposed to be a transvaginal ultrasound with the logic that if you consented to be penetrated with a man's penis to get yourself knocked up, you have no right to object to being penetrated with a little plastic wand.  Fortunately, that part was struck down at least. 

The government almost got shut down over the Bush tax cuts.  President Obama and the Democrats only wanted to keep it for people making less than $200k a year.  Seriously, if that isn't considered being wealthy, how the hell am I not getting more welfare?  If $200k a year is poor, oh god, the poverty line is a pipe dream for me.  We'd need to come up with something lower than poverty for me.  Anyway... the budget didn't get passed until the Democrats caved and renewed all the Bush tax cuts for everyone, and they passed it last minute.  Conservatives wanted the government shut down, having no fucking clue what a disaster that would've been.  Teachers, police and fireman, postman, garbage men... all out of work, with the people responsible still getting paid.  Oh, yeah, that's fair...

[Mr Self Destruct]

Care to explain what you're referring to with 'actions of a party who in the last year tried to engineer a crisis that in part cost us our credit rating as a nation'?

The rape issue was wrongfully described by one person on the extreme end of things.  Don't blame an entire party for the actions of one.  Where as Akin's comments on the legitimacy of rape are out there, his own party came out against him because of it. 

And while you're rapid-firing accusations, let's talk about abortion.  Put yourself in the place of a child in the womb.  Who gets to say at what point that life becomes life?  When there are a multitude of options to prevent pregnancy (condoms, birth control, the morning after pill, and *gasp* abstaining from sex), why should someone still irresponsible enough to get pregnant be allowed to take a life?

Granted, there is a definite exception for rape.  When you talk about cruel violations of a woman's body, that doesn't get much more cruel or much more violating.

And woah...who, exactly, is declaring slavery wasn't that bad or that we need to deport Muslims?  The only politician I've heard talking about 'wanting to put us in chains' is Joe Biden decrying Republicans as anti-freedom.

The Tea Party was formed to stop the violations of the Constitution and the rise of this monolithic administration that ignores the will of the people. 
 

[Callie Del Noire]

Oh yeah, and depending on the state some of those kids live in, some of them would have to prove they are American citizens or risk getting turned over to ICE. My niece is part of that group, though her mother's family has been across the Rio Grand several times over the century. Part of the family has been American for longer than a bunch of people who wrote those laws.

I find it ironic now that these AMERICAN constitutionalists are putting out the same sort of signs their grandparents and great-grandparents saw. When a certain Northern politician ignores the history of his own past (Irish American doing to others what 'N.I.N.A did to their forebears) I am ashamed of my party

[OldSchoolGamer]

These kids are learning whats at stake.  I remember when I was their age and my eyes were first opened to what was going on in the greater world around me.  I knew that I would have to make a decision at some point, as to where my loyalties lie.  These kids have made their decision and I can't help but respect them for it.

That music is nothing compared to the attack ads run by the Obama administration.

Freedom of speech ensures that these kids can talk about whomever they want, no matter how the left tries to limit free speech.

What's funny about watching your country and its values being corrupted?

And Obama EATS KITTENS too.  Yes.  And defenestrates puppies.  And tears the wings off butterflies.  And secretly wipes his ass with the American flag when no one's looking.  Really, he does.

[Stattick]

And Obama EATS KITTENS too.  Yes.  And defenestrates puppies.  And tears the wings off butterflies.  And secretly wipes his ass with the American flag when no one's looking.  Really, he does.

I heard he kills puppies for satan... and tries to trick Republicans into eating his cockroach souffle.

[Mr Self Destruct]

Funny stuff, gentlemen.  Really.

[Stattick]

Funny stuff, gentlemen.  Really.

Actually, I'm just a shill. See, I get paid every time I mention the RPG Kill Puppies for Satan, and its supplement Cockroach Souffle. So let me thank you for making me some money. *walks off, whistling in the dark*

[Callie Del Noire]

Care to explain what you're referring to with 'actions of a party who in the last year tried to engineer a crisis that in part cost us our credit rating as a nation'?

Obstructionism to the point that the impending government shut down has been cited by a LOT of groups as part of our reduced credit rating

The rape issue was wrongfully described by one person on the extreme end of things.  Don't blame an entire party for the actions of one.  Where as Akin's comments on the legitimacy of rape are out there, his own party came out against him because of it. 

Yet he is currently enjoying party support and Superpac support NOW. And he isn't the only one of the Tea Party types to insist that rape is overstated or try to redefine it so date rape, and other issues aren't legally rape anymore. Even to the point of incest.

And while you're rapid-firing accusations, let's talk about abortion.  Put yourself in the place of a child in the womb.  Who gets to say at what point that life becomes life?  When there are a multitude of options to prevent pregnancy (condoms, birth control, the morning after pill, and *gasp* abstaining from sex), why should someone still irresponsible enough to get pregnant be allowed to take a life?

Ah.. But reproductive measures ARE being curtailed. We have planned parenthood being defunded. It has been CLEARLY stated that employers religious rights matter more than employees. IE birth control is NOT a something that we should have in health care, no matter the reason. Even if you need it for actual health reasons!  We have a group who have pushed the legal definition of life to the point in one state that it is a TECHNICAL perpetual state of pregnancy for all women who aren't undergoing menopause. And in other states its to the point that a woman could be investigated for MANSLAUGHTER for undergoing a spontaneous miscarriage. God help her if she has history of smoking, drinking, drug use or working in hazardous field am she could be assumed to purposely trying to miscarry.

And woah...who, exactly, is declaring slavery wasn't that bad or that we need to deport Muslims?  The only politician I've heard talking about 'wanting to put us in chains' is Joe Biden decrying Republicans as anti-freedom.

The Tea Party was formed to stop the violations of the Constitution and the rise of this monolithic administration that ignores the will of the people. 

Lets see. That little bit the Tea party has been going on about that let's any child born within the US be a citizen?  It's not some law they are talking about undoing.  It is the 14TH Amendment!   Joe Boernor (sp?) and other tea party types have danced around saying it outright but basically they are wanting to make sure that the constitution only applies to whom they want to protect. Which is them. 

The very fact you're on this board means you at LEAST consort with folks they disapprove of and heaven forbid you are like me and ask the State chairman of the GOP why they are lying about their candidate and letting him plagiarize from another GOP member to look good to the media. I'm pretty much persona non grata despite my brothers standing in the party. Apparently I'm supposed to be a good little veteran and shut up while they shit on my brother.

[Ironwolf85]

The Tea Party was formed to stop the violations of the Constitution and the rise of this monolithic administration that ignores the will of the people. 

Thing is Dark clown that's partly bullshit. Obama's administration is not monolithic, if it was it would be far more effective at doing what it tries to do. Moreover the Will of the People has been ignored soundly since 2001. Yet the republican party did nothing because they were in power. suddenly they were out on their ass, and NOW they start companing about the liberties of the common man.

But on the rest I agree with Callie, the main problem is too much is controled by too few. R or D that is not fair.
we can fight and debate over the morality of abortion, and gay marrage AFTER this country has been put on the road to recovery, and I don't mean band aid measures or symbolic gestures. or any of that "if we get rid of obama everything will magicly be fixed." hyperbole. I mean INCREASING taxes on the top 1% of america, nutting up, and investing in our future, not the present. Schools are needed, we are being laughed at by the rest of the developed world for having the worst education system, health, life expentency, and more. They've been laughing since No child left behind.

I lived through the NCLB policy, and basicly had a lazy bully chained to my leg. I watched my teachers punished when some guy slept through a test, I watched them try to teach with textbooks that were outdated in 1998, then have their budget slashed for underpreforming students.

[Vekseid]

It's going on all around us.  And I can't seriously believe that I'm the only one seeing it.

Because you claim to hold knowledge that you don't actually have. Your comment about China's treasury holdings in the other thread, for example.

You spout things based off of what you think you know, when it's flat out wrong... what do you expect?

But that isn't the point of this thread.  That video is pretty inspiring, and it's refreshing to see young people get involved in politics again.  There isn't much of that these days.

"We must defend our culture, our language, and our borders!"

...that sentiment sounds so familiar. It was inspiring then, too.

You can inspire for many causes, of course.

[Tamhansen]

Ok. Question of fact ( Yay pop quiz) What is the official national language of the U.S.A?
A. English
B. Spanish
C. American
D. None of the above?

Actually it's none at all. And there was a reason for it. English was chosen as the lingua Franca of the US as it was the most common language at the time, but it was left up to the people to decide what to speak.

Stop immigration? Fine, let's finally get rid of all those people whose grandparents or great grandparents came from outside the USA. Hmm, hey where'd everyone go?

As for protect our culture? Which flicking culture A Texan and a West Virginian are as culturally similar as a swede and a Pakistani. The US is a melting pot of cultures, and this is mostly due to immigration.

So basically, the tea party wants to protect America's culture, by stopping the one thing that made that culture.

Well at least the tea party stays true to it's name. Hot air rises to the top. And with airheads like Bachmann, Palin and Akin, he'll they can only rise higher

[Valerian]

And woah...who, exactly, is declaring slavery wasn't that bad or that we need to deport Muslims?  The only politician I've heard talking about 'wanting to put us in chains' is Joe Biden decrying Republicans as anti-freedom.

This was discussed in another thread:

And the stupid keeps coming...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/charlie-fuqua-arkansas-candidate-death-penalty-rebellious-children_n_1948490.html?ir=Religion&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214020/Republican-state-rep-Jon-Hubbarb-calls-slavery-blessing-Charlie-Fuqua-advocates-deporting-Muslims-books.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

The rape issue was wrongfully described by one person on the extreme end of things.  Don't blame an entire party for the actions of one.  Where as Akin's comments on the legitimacy of rape are out there, his own party came out against him because of it. 

At this point, there's really no idea or stance that is too far "out there" for the current, radical GOP to embrace.  Yes, the party leadership initially decried what Akin said, but as mentioned above, they've since welcomed him back to the fold.

The list of Republicans 'on the extreme end of things' currently encompasses most of the party.  You can't really dismiss them as outliers anymore.

[Moraline]

Alright, I'm not an American and I can't claim to know all the issues here as seen by the American people but even I know that the Tea Party is one of the most absurd and ridiculous political farces ever created.

That video that was linked is nothing more then a political advertisement. Those aren't teenagers speaking what they think, those are actors paid by a slick PR/Marketing company to make a political ad.


This is the youtube channel host of that video:  http://www.youtube.com/user/networktalkradio

This is the man that owns it:

http://www.grahamledger.tk/
Graham Ledger
Candidate for
Board Member; San Dieguito Union High School District

Biographical Highlights

    Occupation: Parent/Businessman/Newsman
    PTA member
    Big Brothers & Sisters - MAN OF THE YEAR
    Board, Fr. Joe's Village - Tousaint, Homeless Children
    Community Leader - 858 Tea Party
    Honorary Deputy Sheriff
    Constitutionalist


My conclusion about this video -
It doesn't need to be heard/watched.
It possess no political or philosophical value.
It contains nothing insightful.
It is a TV Commercial that spews forth marketing propaganda for a man running for a political office.

[elone]

From the video:

"No more social programs"

Would that include SSI, food stamps, educational benefits, health care, headstart, etc., etc., How about veterans benefits, isn't that a social program? Of course, let's cut everything that helps individuals and keep everything that helps corporations, businesses, CEO's (Romney's of the world)  and the like.

The video is an effective propaganda piece only for those narrow minded enough to not see it for what it is. TRASH.

[OldSchoolGamer]

From the video:

"No more social programs"

Would that include SSI, food stamps, educational benefits, health care, headstart, etc., etc., How about veterans benefits, isn't that a social program? Of course, let's cut everything that helps individuals and keep everything that helps corporations, businesses, CEO's (Romney's of the world)  and the like.

The video is an effective propaganda piece only for those narrow minded enough to not see it for what it is. TRASH.

Gee, wouldn't that mean no more public education, too?  Wouldn't that be ironic?  Another Tea Partier sawing off the branch on which he sits...

[Ironwolf85]

hey a teenager for the policy of no school...

[elone]

The Tea Party  loves the Constitution, except for things like the birthright to American citizenship.

[Callie Del Noire]

The Tea Party  loves the Constitution, except for things like the birthright to American citizenship.

Not true, they think it should only apply to them. Everyone else need not apply.

[Hemingway]

"Less taxes".

"Smaller government".

"A strong military".

I'm fairly certain I don't have to explain that militaries need to be paid for, and where the money to do so comes from.

Well, it's just more of the same jingoistic garbage, isn't it? It's the sort of thing I'm slowly giving up arguing against, because it's not even based in reality. It's really just sad - not as in pathetic, but genuinely sad - that people can manipulated into voting going so thoroughly against their own interests. I mean, I don't know what background these kids have - they could all come from extremely wealthy families. But to my knowledge that's not the reality of movements like the Tea Party. Yet they don't understand that what they need is precisely what they despise. It's called socialism. But it's hard to convince people of that when words no longer have any meaning.