WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[greenknight]

The Rogue Trader illustration is of what is pretty clearly a battle sister.

Not according to the accompanying text. She and her sisters are described as being equal to space marines and using their rules in play.

And the Adepta Sororitas had to wait another 11 years to be a defined thing. RT was 1986, the SoB codex was 1997. 

[Lustful Bride]

Not according to the accompanying text. She and her sisters are described as being equal to space marines and using their rules in play.

And the Adepta Sororitas had to wait another 11 years to be a defined thing. RT was 1986, the SoB codex was 1997.

Man this makes me want to see Big Buff lady space marines now 030. Of course then if they did that nowadays people would scream 'feminism' and 'pandering to SJWs' and then the other side would yell 'Misoginy!" and everyone would be unhappy. :/

*shakes fist* GW should have made lady spacemarines canon decades ago.

[TheGlyphstone]

Personally, I've never been bothered by the male-only marines, it was one of the few bits of 40K's byzantine lore that actually made some sense based on the Emperor's stated motives. He specifically didn't want his Astartes to outbreed and replace humanity as Homo Superior, and completely eliminating the possibility of females in your supersoldiers does prevent that.

But there's always Fabius Bile and/or Slaanesh if you really need your canon lady marines in the meantime. The latter would have started as men at some point, but the former just DNGAF who he experiments on, and every so often he actually gets it right.

[wander]

Yeah, as Glyph says basically...

Also, well Sisters of Battle (I remember when their models first came out ^^) do have a 3+ save like Marines, sure they don't have the same ability past Ballistics as your garden variety MEQ, though the Sororitas have that happy medium of being visually like female Marines and being their own faction of sorts, with their own character.  :-)

Basically if someone wanted female marines, they can play Chaos/Slaanesh or play as the Sororitas. The only thing is CSMs rules aren't so hot these days and the Sororitas need you to mortgage your unborn children to afford their metal models into a Kill Team, let alone a 1000+ pt army...

[CopperLily]

Not according to the accompanying text. She and her sisters are described as being equal to space marines and using their rules in play.

And the Adepta Sororitas had to wait another 11 years to be a defined thing. RT was 1986, the SoB codex was 1997.

The Adepta Sororitas is mentionedin the text next to the picture of Sister Sin, in a habit-and-fleur de lyse outfit firing on a Rainbow Warrior beakie.

[CopperLily]

Main Image:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/MCP1/SisterSin.jpg

Adjacent flavor text:
http://s134.photobucket.com/user/MCP1/media/RogTrad.jpg.html

[HairyHeretic]

And apparently PETA have now asked GW to stop making models wearing fur. I still find it hard to believe this isn't something from The Onion.

[TheLaughingOne]

I dont. Peta is kind of... whats the phrase.... fuck stupid?

Im all for ending animal abuse and all, but they are literally people who use animal based produces they try and make other people stop using ( https://www.humanewatch.org/person/mary_beth_sweetland/ source)

They take in good health animals from people and euthanize them without tryi g to get them adopted out in many cases

hidden as contains talk of putting down animals...

: http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/petakillspets.asp )

They are not good people, and tend to do more harm then good, especially with advertisements that are flat out lying, scare tactics, bullying, and other things...

[TheLaughingOne]

Oohh!!! And lets not forget their attempt to get fish legally renamed as "seakittens" so people would stop eating then.

[terranspirit]

I think that was this one. It sounds about right, and is one of Dan Abnett's. I would say he's probably the best of the 40k authors.

YUS!! that's the one. It was super good and I really enjoyed it.

[TheGlyphstone]

Posers Embarrassing True Animal-lovers strikes again, it seems.

[wander]

So... I need help for my Skitarii to smash a Crisis Suit in Kill Team...

I'd love some ideas and strategies and all that good stuff! ^^;

(They have multiple wounds, a 3+ save and fire four dice of missiles at my dudes each turn... Need help!)

[greenknight]

Main Image:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/MCP1/SisterSin.jpg

Adjacent flavor text:
http://s134.photobucket.com/user/MCP1/media/RogTrad.jpg.html

Right. All that says they're "lady marines" (to totally use wrong phrasing ;) ) and moreso, that they are the source of the warrior-monk ideal of later incarnations. Even Sin's power armor is regular marine armor with boob plates and a headdress over her otherwise masked and helmetless (like other marines) head.

So, they're statline would be

M	BS	WS	S	T	W	A	I
4	4	4	4	3	1	1	4

just like any other RT space marines (they didn't get T4 until a WD errata/update article).

Because what else do we assume in 1986 when there is no list for them?

[CopperLily]

Right. All that says they're "lady marines" (to totally use wrong phrasing ;) ) and moreso, that they are the source of the warrior-monk ideal of later incarnations. Even Sin's power armor is regular marine armor with boob plates and a headdress over her otherwise masked and helmetless (like other marines) head.

So, they're statline would be

M	BS	WS	S	T	W	A	I
4	4	4	4	3	1	1	4

just like any other RT space marines (they didn't get T4 until a WD errata/update article).

Because what else do we assume in 1986 when there is no list for them?

No, all that says is that they're armed and equipped similarly.

"Similar" = / = The Same

They appear with a different appearance (boobplate and habit), under a different organization, using a different name, a different gender (solidified by the use of a different gender case in their name), performing a different role (internal policing). That *very early in the game* they didn't have different stats doesn't mean they weren't different.

Nor are you going to convince me that some British dudes in the late 80's had a sudden bout of egalitarianism that they reverted back from immediately thereafter.

Now, if you wanted to argue that say, "All Space Marines are male" is built on a 1980's lay-person's view of genetics and is painful as all getout as a scientist to read as a justification, I'd be right there with you :)

[CopperLily]

The funny thing was, the whole thing was a satire at the start, sure it was still somewhat grim though there was a certain dark black comedy to some aspects. However I noticed as years went on through the '90s that writers began to take the setting a bit more seriously and outside of perhaps the Orks (and even they're feeling it now) there was little humour left to be had. Still, there's the Ciaphas Cain novels which is basically 'Blackadder in 40K' and some bits of black comedy do come out through the cracks every now and then...

The Militarum Tempestus codex talks about a group who were sent into battle against Tau, decided to retreat, lost half their men trying to get the rest back to the evac ship... They were then told upon making it back to safety (by gun-point!) to get back out there and reclaim the world from the xenos... Except the Tau had already buggered off... And Imperial command said if they couldn't kill the Tau they couldn't be extracted... They're probably still living on that planet now... ^^;;

Point being, yep it's dark and if something seems comically so, it's probably meant to be. ^^ I know some authors class 40K as Serious Business, I prefer to see it more in the vein of Brazil these days.

I'd probably say the opposite of things being overpowered all over the shop when not taking into consideration the Space Marine examples and fanwank as given by the posters above me (as in where they've mentioned what to avoid). The Imperial Guard come across as Starship Troopers where death is cheap and the meat-grinder has the average expectancy of survival as being 15 hours... If you survive a battle, you're instantly a veteran soldier! ^^;

Anyways, most people will point to Dan Abnett bringing the best writing, however I feel they're where the problem stemmed, at least novel-wise, of the writers taking the setting super-serious. There seems to me, IMO, a sort of lack of being in touch with the setting whilst still having a grip on it's elements... Thats the best way I can describe it.

I will say that Hairy's recommendations are good ones.  :-)

Also; Nice story Pockets.  :-)

In contrast, I rather dislike the old version of the setting, and have found that it doesn't particularly age well.

To each their own, but I'm not particularly nostalgic for the old version, save for the occasional touch in modeling (the new Custodes tanks being a clear homage to the deoderant-tank of yore for example).

[TheGlyphstone]

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/01/18/cadia-another-imperial-victory/

[CopperLily]

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/01/18/cadia-another-imperial-victory/

The Regimental Standard has been doing fine work.

[greenknight]

"Similar" = / = The Same

Okay, but waiting 11 years and another (almost two) edition to get rules.... Do you have a better option than just using marine rules? And Sis Sin does have space marine shoulder pads; no corsets in sight.

As for egalitarianism, the archetypal Imperial Assassin both in RT and Inquisitor were women (arguably the same one as Meh'lindi's description is pretty close to the prior RT artwork.) I think Princess Leia (PBUH), Ellen Ripley, and the Bene Gesserit were pretty big influences on the early setting design. But changes of the guard led to sexpot daemonettes vs the previous grotesque imagery, too.

I just want plastic sister models so I can use their heads on regular marines and watch the neckbeards' heads explode.

[TheGlyphstone]

Does anyone here have a NY Times webscription? Cause they apparently picked up PETA's petition against GW, and got impressively snarky.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/fur-flies-for-real-over-space-games-imaginary-dress-code-76z29hlt9

[HairyHeretic]

GW must be getting fantastic publicity out of this. I think the story has been picked up by at least a few mainstream media types, as well as plenty of social media. I don't know what PETA thought they'd get out of it, as it's making them look like idiots.

[TheGlyphstone]

For fanatics, any publicity is good publicity.

[greenknight]

For fanatics, any publicity is good publicity.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!!

oh, you meant them... :-[

[wander]

Funnily enough though, Geedubs stocks have actually taken a drop this week after a stable climbing recently.

I'm not saying the PETA thing is responsible...

Buuuuut...

[Wajin]

Funnily enough though, Geedubs stocks have actually taken a drop this week after a stable climbing recently.

I'm not saying the PETA thing is responsible...

Buuuuut...

My local game store had to stock up on Fenrisan wolves, Thunder Wolf Riders and a few others of the heavily furred models after quite a few of us regulars there just went and bought Space Wolf miniatures to piss of PETA.

[wander]