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Fracturing the Shoutbox

Started by Vekseid, July 25, 2009, 03:54:45 PM

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Vekseid

...I'm beginning to think that it's high time I investigated this a lot deeper. On average, a bit over a hundred different people are using it each day, and about 20 an hour. Considering human nature prefers to interact in a number of subgroups of 40-60, this creates... issues. The desire for division and exclusion is natural.

The problem, though, is how to fracture it - that is, in what ways and by what guidelines should our current singular shoutbox overlord become several?

Paradox

Here's one idea I've had for a while--- at the very least, make a shoutbox that is inaccessible to unapproved members. Rudeness and blatant sex would still be verboten, but we could at least have adult conversations without having the ever-present threat of the heavens parting and an angry admin descending with a hot rant about public face on their lips.


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

Vekseid

Quote from: Paradox on July 25, 2009, 04:01:26 PM
Here's one idea I've had for a while--- at the very least, make a shoutbox that is inaccessible to unapproved members. Rudeness and blatant sex would still be verboten, but we could at least have adult conversations without having the ever-present threat of the heavens parting and an angry admin descending with a hot rant about public face on their lips.

1) We're reworking and clarifying the rules for that.
2) The issue at hand would apply to anything less restrictive than 'donors only'. Swearing or other problems is rarely an issue. Monopolizing the shoutbox is.

Paradox

The chat seems to operate in a similar manner to the IRC; why not allow the creation of multiple rooms? I noticed in the AJAX client that creating private rooms is forbidden.


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

Vekseid

System resources, mostly. IRC is designed for what it does, Ajax Chat only claims to be.

Dakota

Ajax is pants, Vek I know the VB shout box's can have multiple "channels" would you be able to use a similor code to rework the one we have on here?

Mithlomwen

I like Paradox's idea of having one that's accessible to unapproved members, and having one or two that are for members only so 'adult' things and conversations can go on.  Since no one seems to use the HB any more, that might be an option for something like that possibly. 
Baby, it's all I know,
that your half of the flesh and blood that makes me whole...

Vekseid

Quote from: Boian on July 25, 2009, 04:12:02 PM
Ajax is pants, Vek I know the VB shout box's can have multiple "channels" would you be able to use a similor code to rework the one we have on here?

Is pants? I'm honestly not aware of any community with Elliquiy's activity using a global shoutbox. Some days see over thirty million MySQL queries.

Anyway, that's what I was referring to. Private channels are just a sort of unknown factor that I'd rather not take if I can avoid it, the server already sees rather high load.

Trieste

Can the groups overlap?

Could have a lords group, a ladies, a liege, a donor box, a Dom box, a sub box, a straight box, a gay box, a bi box, a regional box (separated by time zone or country, doesn't matter), a food box, a game box, a snuggle box, a newbie box, a rant box...

I'm just throwing out ideas; I don't step into the SB much so I don't really know how the groups that frequent it would identify.

Dakota

Quote from: Vekseid on July 25, 2009, 04:39:02 PM
Is pants? I'm honestly not aware of any community with Elliquiy's activity using a global shoutbox. Some days see over thirty million MySQL queries.

Anyway, that's what I was referring to. Private channels are just a sort of unknown factor that I'd rather not take if I can avoid it, the server already sees rather high load.

that makes sense, but then I've always prefered flash to ajax

Kip

#10
Quote from: Trieste on July 25, 2009, 04:43:50 PM
Can the groups overlap?

Could have a lords group, a ladies, a liege, a donor box, a Dom box, a sub box, a straight box, a gay box, a bi box, a regional box (separated by time zone or country, doesn't matter), a food box, a game box, a snuggle box, a newbie box, a rant box...

I'm just throwing out ideas; I don't step into the SB much so I don't really know how the groups that frequent it would identify.

I like the logic of that Trie...

Really though, I don't know - I frequent the SB lots - it's a drawcard for me and I try and mix and match with anyone who is in there.  I see groups but quite often they're fluid in my opinion - maybe I contribute to issues without realising it *shrugs* 

I've never really heard of groups causing a concern before though but perhaps that's because noones approached me or brought it up publicly like this where I can read it in such a specific clear manner.

Do you have thoughts in mind Veks that you'd consider doable?

"You say good start, I say perfect ending. 
This world has no heart and mine is beyond mending."
~Jay Brannan~

"Am I an angel or a monster?  A hero or a villian? Why can't I see the difference?"
~Mohinder Suresh~

Desan

Is there any way to at least make it optional to pm in the sb? that could prove useful if it ends up being only two people who are spamming the SB...
And I don’t really give a f-ck, and my excuse is that I’m young.


Oniya

Even just putting in the bit where clicking on someone's name brought up their profile would help, I think, since there's the option to send them a PM right there on the profile.

I have seen an awful lot of 'tagging' or 'I'm waiting for a post from ____' messages recently.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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Requests updated March 17

Desan

 
Quote from: Oniya on July 25, 2009, 06:50:06 PM

I have seen an awful lot of 'tagging' or 'I'm waiting for a post from ____' messages recently.

Yea....that needs to be toned down a bit..... in my opinion >.>
And I don’t really give a f-ck, and my excuse is that I’m young.


Marguerite

#14
While fracturing the shoutbox sounds good in theory, would there be the rise of 'cliques' and their own personal rooms coming around? Would there be someone be appointed to the different rooms and the rules of the first SB apply to those as well? What about those who choose to exclude others from the room because of personal feelings or because they want to keep their group separate from others? If they want to have their own rooms could they not go to the IRC where rooms are made there already?

Not saying it is a bad idea but maybe there could be three SB's:

One for the unapproved, where both unapproved and approved can mingle if he or she likes.
One just for the member of the SB which holds the PG 13 rules
One for adult situations for members in the SB.
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You Keep On Crying, Baby, I'll Bleed You Dry
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Desan

if only there was a way to just slap on IRC onto the SB...because IRC has general area (unapproved/approved), members only where anything can go (the lounge) and of course a cool gaming area (Charm/Power). Also with the ability to send PM's and make rooms.

But yea..Marg you're right..people might start blocking others and what not. But then again, we do have an ignore feature on E, so why can't we have the choice to ignore others if that's a means of avoiding drama? Then again..it may -cause- it too >_>?
And I don’t really give a f-ck, and my excuse is that I’m young.


Marguerite

Ignoring a person because he or she is someone you cannot get along with is one thing but ignoring someone because he or she does not agree with your thoughts, does not kiss your butt or bend to your will is another. It would be me like ignoring you because you did not say I was pretty or not letting you in unless you bend to my will in the private channel. Here on E, we are able to be adults and handle problems but adding more SB's, can be killer on the site and one's memory if having to load up more than one SB.
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You Keep On Crying, Baby, I'll Bleed You Dry
Mar Is Currently: Taking On Threads
Check My Absence Thread For Updates, Thank You

Will

I'm not sure it can make the SB more cliquish than it already is.  People pop into the SB and get ignored on a regular basis, just because everybody else is talking with their people and don't care to acknowledge them.  The only thing I'm worried about is that if there is a (or several) members-only Box(es), will there be anybody left in the public Box besides unapproved people?
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Greenthorn

I have not read all of the responses here...but I'm all for a donor only SB in addition to the public one.
 

Dakota

#19
I'm all for an ignore feature, sometimes its definately needed >.< and there is a way to just slap an irc on the shoutbox but it would require the irc being localy hosted rather than
On an external server

Alexei

Not sure if I agree with a 'Donors Only' thing either.

I get the impression that there are a lot of things that people are frustrated with in the SB. Two of the main ones I've seen is the 'emo' complaint, and the whole 'cliques' complaint. I'm sure the deities have lists as long as your arm of the different complaints, but as a normal schlub member, those are the two main ones *I* see.

Personally, I've always gone in for the K.I.S.S. Method of things. Keep it Simple Stupid. The more we fracture this, the more work it is for the deities and staff to monitor. and the more aggravation it is, for something that is a volunteer position. My other concern is, the more we fracture it, the more that 'clique' feeling comes into play. The whole 'I'm in this clique, they don't like me, so they keep me out...' thing. Kind of similar to what Marg was suggesting.


Having a 'Donors only' box is totally up to the gods and goddesses, but I know that not every approved member in good standing has been able to make a donation.

That's just my two cents. Do with it what you will. *shrugs*

Krysia

Where I was before I came to E had a java chat. Yes I know it would be something more expensive for E then what Veks has already put in. But I know I'd help pay for something like this.

http://digichat.com/

It's simple and the admins can put different rooms. Hell people can even make locked rooms if they felt so inclined to go and cyber their hearts out. (Hot Box Style) There is an ignore feature as well as a private message feature. Might be something to look into... might not be. *tosses the pennies into the wishing well*

Dakota

There as a far cheaper version than that and it can be intergrated directly into the forum  i love flash lol

Will

Heh, I don't imagine staff monitoring is going to be an issue, really.  We went through that not long ago. :P  If it gets to a place where staff is needed to constantly monitor it, they'll just take it away. XD

And like I said before, the SB is already cliquish.  Elliquiy itself is cliquish, like any large group of people, so why would the SB can be any different? ::)  I don't even see how splitting the SB into a handful of Boxes would really worsen that.
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

ShrowdedPoet

What is it with people freakin out over cliques?  Do I not know the definition?  A clique is a group of people with like interests that hang together right?  So what's wrong with them?  If you don't have those certain interests of course you wouldn't be in that particular clique.  That doesn't mean that the members of the group can't hang with you over a diff subject.  I don't see a problem with it and there being a problem with it seems kind of juvenile.  So really I don't see anything wrong with fracturing the SB.  But it would seem to be more work for staff. 
Kiss the hand that beats you.
Sexuality isn't a curse, it's a gift to embrace and explore!
Ons and Offs


Trieste

An inclusive clique is not a bad thing, but I think people are worried about exclusive cliques that work to make others feel inferior and unwelcome.

To be honest, I could not imagine anyone on E acting that way, and we've gotten comments that we are one of the warmest, most welcoming communities some of our members have come across. I don't think exclusivity and elitism is a problem here, but I do think people are gun-shy from drama-heavy sites.

ShrowdedPoet

Kiss the hand that beats you.
Sexuality isn't a curse, it's a gift to embrace and explore!
Ons and Offs


Krysia

Cliques are going to happen, it's the nature of making friends. You hang out with the ones you see on a regular basis. :/

Boian> I know there is cheaper things, just tossing out ideas love! :3

Duncan

How about breaking it up into ratings.  For example the SB is pg-13 which in itself is stupid since other parts of the world has different rating systems but... have it in tabs you can click to go from pg-13 to R or X

Karma

I like how things I mention get dismissed, only to reappear several months later. :P

Duncan


Karma


Duncan


Aeval

I see the SB as a way of getting to know people.-I don't frequent it very often but I enjoy 'lurking' and listening...the newbies pop in and join conversations and the older Elliquarians romp and have a good time. If you fracture it, I think it will go the way of the Doormat, HB and Steambox: you will have only newbies using one, and the others wll be used only sporadically. I guess my question is: What is the purpose of the SB? I see it as a way of getting to know people and say 'hello'- If there is an overload and fracturing can't be avoided- I understand that. But..if it CAN be avoided..I just wonder if fracturing won't split E! into more subgroups instead of having at least one place for us to come together as a community. Just my 2 cents! :-)

“Tomorrow may be hell, but today was a good writing day, and on the good writing days nothing else matters.”
― Neil Gaiman

Paradox

The ShoutBox already has an ignore feature. Just type /ignore NAME and /accept NAME to unignore them. It comes in handy.


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

Greenthorn

Quote from: Karma on July 26, 2009, 08:46:42 AM
I like how things I mention get dismissed, only to reappear several months later. :P

Ahhh Karma...this has been an ongoing issue from before I joined I assumed.  It's how the steambox/hotbox got started  ;)

............

As I said, I think that those who donate should get a SB with no limits on rating.  In all actuality, it could be a reward (and might entice more people to donate) Yes, I'm a little biased since I've donated...but it makes sense in a way....you donate and you get more features...but it's -only- a chat feature.  That way it's not as if those who cannot or will not donate are being shunned.  The current SB maybe should go back to the old way...to keep a public face?
 

Trieste

Quote from: Karma on July 26, 2009, 08:46:42 AM
I like how things I mention get dismissed, only to reappear several months later. :P

Probably it was buried in unhelpful comments like this one.

*thinkthink*

'I told you so' is never really polite, whether you did or didn't.

*ponder*

So that means you have a crapload of helpful suggestions, since you've thought about this for months already. I'd love to hear them.

Will

Quote from: Greenthorn on July 26, 2009, 10:23:55 AM
Ahhh Karma...this has been an ongoing issue from before I joined I assumed.  It's how the steambox/hotbox got started  ;)

............

As I said, I think that those who donate should get a SB with no limits on rating.  In all actuality, it could be a reward (and might entice more people to donate) Yes, I'm a little biased since I've donated...but it makes sense in a way....you donate and you get more features...but it's -only- a chat feature.  That way it's not as if those who cannot or will not donate are being shunned.  The current SB maybe should go back to the old way...to keep a public face?

Go back to the old way?  O.o  The manual refresh?
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Dakota

Quote from: Paradox on July 26, 2009, 09:02:22 AM
The ShoutBox already has an ignore feature. Just type /ignore NAME and /accept NAME to unignore them. It comes in handy.

accept doesnt work lol
so be careful who you ignore lol

Oniya

Does logging out and logging back in fix the problem, Boian?
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Vekseid

Quote from: Karma on July 26, 2009, 08:46:42 AM
I like how things I mention get dismissed, only to reappear several months later. :P

I've wanted to develop a multi-room, multi-community CMS to actually function -as- Elliquiy since before the site was founded, much less the shoutbox or AJAX chat we have now. Heck I even mentioned this to you when you suggested it.

That's what the subscription bar is for, actually, to free my time and soul to develop it. : )

Everything else is really a stopgap measure to handle Elliquiy's growth as a community until I can get that finished.

Dakota

good question, will try now lol

Dakota

Quote from: Vekseid on July 26, 2009, 12:55:33 PM
I've wanted to develop a multi-room, multi-community CMS to actually function -as- Elliquiy since before the site was founded, much less the shoutbox or AJAX chat we have now. Heck I even mentioned this to you when you suggested it.

That's what the subscription bar is for, actually, to free my time and soul to develop it. : )

Everything else is really a stopgap measure to handle Elliquiy's growth as a community until I can get that finished.

which cms systems did you look at?

Paradox

Boian-- That's odd; it worked for me earlier today.

Either way, all you have to do is use /ignore a second time to remove them from your Ignore list.


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

Nadir

#44
Quote from: Greenthorn on July 26, 2009, 10:23:55 AM

As I said, I think that those who donate should get a SB with no limits on rating.  In all actuality, it could be a reward (and might entice more people to donate) Yes, I'm a little biased since I've donated...but it makes sense in a way....you donate and you get more features...but it's -only- a chat feature.  That way it's not as if those who cannot or will not donate are being shunned.  T

I like the idea of this, but in practicality it might not work so well. Didn't you say somewhere that you only knew/talked frequently with one or two other donors? (I can't remember where this was said, or when, it could have been an old topic... I'm a sieve brain) - and also, what about those donors who wish to be anonymous? Would they get access to the donor SB and blow their cover as it were if they appeared in there, or would they not get the special feature despite the fact they help support the site? And what about the people who donate time instead of money to help keep this forum going? Maybe tally how many hours work they should do before letting them in? And what about when/if there's E merchandise shop? Will the people who buy the goods be classed as donors? Or what about the people who attract more people (and potentially more donors) to join? Is there going to be a number of new referrals that has to be met before they get the privileges?

*shrugs* There are more donors in E than the badges say, but what guidelines would define what privileges they would get? And having features that are only accessible to those who have spare cash might cause something of a bitterness between those who can and those who can't afford to be frivolous with their income. It's not a pretty thing, class divisions - and that's pretty much what you're talking about.
 

Marguerite

It starts with a Donors only SB and can head into many directions especially one where there is a class division of those who can spend their cash on E and those who want to but financial restraints stop them from doing so. Just as Eden placed and what I mentioned earlier, while having more than one SB sounds good in theory, it could also lead to the original SB dying out with the new 'SB rooms' opened for those who rather be in their own group of friends than socializing with those outside of the group. Myself, I enjoy interacting with various people and made friends because I stepped out of comfort zone.
*R.R*A.A*O.O*Wiki*Bordello*Whip and Apple*
You Keep On Crying, Baby, I'll Bleed You Dry
Mar Is Currently: Taking On Threads
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Paradox

My problem with the Donors Only SB is that I don't think it would raise very much in the way of funding; after all, one donation, and you're in. I'm sure quite a few people would think "What's the point in continuing to donate after the privilege has been bestowed? I got what I need out of it."


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

Karma

Quote from: Vekseid on July 26, 2009, 12:55:33 PM
I've wanted to develop a multi-room, multi-community CMS to actually function -as- Elliquiy since before the site was founded, much less the shoutbox or AJAX chat we have now. Heck I even mentioned this to you when you suggested it.

This is what I would suggest, really. These stopgap measures don't solve the problem; it seems to me they'd create new ones to pile on top of the old ones. I don't really like any of the suggestions given thus far except the concept of a whole new system. Of course, I'm coming from an extreme position - I left the SB after months of grating against it, and except for the sporadic visit here and there, I don't intend to return unless there's a new option like that.

Greenthorn

Eden...I honestly don't know who I talk to has donated...and who has not.  I really don't pay any mind at all to people's badges...  *shrugs*

If the SB gets changed in any way...someone, somewhere is either going to 1)feel left out 2)not like the change.  This has been a problem with Elliquiy for -at least- over a year.  Everyone cannot be happy with every change.

I personally would be in both SBs if another was made...because I'm dorky like that!
 

Greenthorn

Why does the SB have to keep changing anyway?  I mean...isn't Elliquiy a role playing website?  Is there really that huge of an issue with the SB that it needs to be changing?

I'd rather see the change with the profiles/search for members thing!
 

Karma

If we were to go ahead with a second shoutbox, I think the only delineation that is really "proper" would be the aforementioned rating split: a second box without the content limitations of the present shoutbox. Meaning of course that we could swear, swap links that are most definitely NSFW, etc, and discuss more intensely certain subjects in real time that at present are limited to the forums. I don't mean it would become a smut-box - I don't think that's ever appropriate in an open chatroom with so many other options available. All the other separations such as donors-only rub me completely the wrong way.

Dakota

for once I agree with Karma on something

Greenthorn

But isn't the chat room available...with private rooms...for non-rated chat?

I think that a SB with no limits will quickly become one big cyber session...whether or not that is anyone's intention.  New members will come in, and current members who are here to cyber, are all going to see it as a no holds barred place to cyber. 

One thing that needs to be remembered is that there are people here for different reasons than ourselves...and just because say I, would not use it as a real-time cyber medium...that doesn't mean that Tom, Dick, and Susie won't!
 

Karma

#53
It wouldn't be allowed to become such a place, GT - that would be a rule, not a suggestion, just as it is in the regular shoutbox. I don't mean to say the place would be limitless, just far less limited. They wouldn't see it as a place to cyber because we would not allow it to become such a thing.

Chevalier des Poissons

There is a shoubox called Inferno shoutbox that allows private messages. The thing is that is way too discrete, and some 'smart' people as moi might not see it.

What if the SB goes as the forum? Unapproved members could have only the public face, and approved members could have their own part of the SB. Like two tabs and stuff.
-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Greenthorn

Quote from: Karma on July 26, 2009, 04:32:58 PM
It would be allowed to become such a place, GT - that would be a rule, not a suggestion, just as it is in the regular shoutbox. I don't mean to say the place would be limitless, just far less limited. They wouldn't see it as a place to cyber because we would not allow it to become such a thing.

But Karma, this means that the mods have to monitor yet another toy for us members....

I predict that if another SB with no rating happens...within three months people will start complaining about it
 

Chevalier des Poissons

But GT, look at the size of our forums. It is impossible to do something without people complaining about it. Just think that we can hide the SB and choose not to see it, and yet some people still complain about it.
-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Greenthorn

Quote from: Battle Shambler on July 26, 2009, 06:00:19 PM
But GT, look at the size of our forums. It is impossible to do something without people complaining about it. Just think that we can hide the SB and choose not to see it, and yet some people still complain about it.

Well...exactly...so why are we asking for more drama?  ;)
 

Will

Quote from: Greenthorn on July 26, 2009, 05:58:58 PM
But Karma, this means that the mods have to monitor yet another toy for us members....

I predict that if another SB with no rating happens...within three months people will start complaining about it

People complain about everything, of course they'll complain no matter what happens with this. 

And I don't understand all the talk about staff monitoring the new Boxes... The people in the boxes are supposed to monitor themselves, right?  And if they don't, it gets taken away?  Isn't that right?
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Karma

And here we are, complaining. :P But for many of us it would be a place with one less complaint. ...in theory. >_>

Greenthorn

I'm not complaining...I'm opening the book up.

The SB  is not a new subject, nor is adding a different SB.  I personally think "If it ain't broke then don't fix it".  The SB serves its purpose.  If the majority of people in Elliquiy are all for something added...cool...I'm with you all. 

I really don't spend as much time here as I used to to worry about monitoring anyone. 

*shrugs*

I'll stay out of the conversation.
 

Vekseid

Communication channels almost always have to be fully open. There are conveniences that hog resources, however, like having twelve windows open >_> I will probably be forced to do something about that, but 1: That's a long ways down the road and 2: it wouldn't stop anyone from playing.

Edit: Err, regarding donations.

Chevalier des Poissons

God I am with such headache that I could swear Vekseid said 'hot dog resources'.

QuoteWell...exactly...so why are we asking for more drama?  ;)

It will be here one way or another. After all, what's this thread about?
-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Nadir

Quote from: Greenthorn on July 26, 2009, 03:03:58 PM
Why does the SB have to keep changing anyway?  I mean...isn't Elliquiy a role playing website?  Is there really that huge of an issue with the SB that it needs to be changing?

I'd rather see the change with the profiles/search for members thing!

Agreed! I'm really looking forwards to that.

Marguerite

Here, here on the profiles. The SB is fine as it is, if someone wants to cyber, take it to PM or to IM. If unapproved members want to roleplay, there is the Non-Adult thread. Those who want to 'tag' one another to post, should use IM or PM to make it faster and not hog up the SB. In a site like this one, people are bound to complain and nit pick. Put more effort into something like new forums, the Rabbit hole replacement and put the SB rooms on the back burner.
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Check My Absence Thread For Updates, Thank You

Nadir

Actually, how about splitting the SB into one socialising area and one casual RP area - like an add-on for the non-adult section. The socialising area would be where everyone is themselves - not their fursonas. When I socialise, I like to do so with people-people, not cat-/dragon-/etc-people... that sort of thing could be kept to the casual rp area.


Nico

Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 06:06:16 AM
Actually, how about splitting the SB into one socialising area and one casual RP area - like an add-on for the non-adult section. The socialising area would be where everyone is themselves - not their fursonas. When I socialise, I like to do so with people-people, not cat-/dragon-/etc-people... that sort of thing could be kept to the casual rp area.

That's actually an excellent idea, Eden. :D And I think, when the SB splits into all kinds of sections, it will just encourage the 'clique'-stuff.

Greenthorn

Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 06:06:16 AM
Actually, how about splitting the SB into one socialising area and one casual RP area - like an add-on for the non-adult section. The socialising area would be where everyone is themselves - not their fursonas. When I socialise, I like to do so with people-people, not cat-/dragon-/etc-people... that sort of thing could be kept to the casual rp area.

....but isn't this what the HB is for?

*runs*
 

Nadir

#68
Not that I've seen. The HB is used when the SB is over-full and the convos move to fast/are more personal than people want to be held in public.

I'm just getting frustrated with being pressured into RPing with people in their fursonas when I just want to relax. If we have a section that is specifically for non-adult play (not non-adult games, just messing around) it will make me feel better. (My, I'm arrogant today o.O)

Greenthorn

Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 09:51:38 AM
Not that I've seen. The HB is used when the SB is over-full and the convos move to fast/are more personal than people want to be held in public.

I'm just getting frustrated with being pressured into RPing with people in their fursonas when I just want to relax.

I am so not into the furry thing...but I've noticed that some people remain in their "fursonas" throughout the site.  Ehhh to me it's more of live and let live.  Plus...it would mean that those who don't have the fursona and such will constantly be stating "Hey kitty, this SB is not for you...the other one is".

That just doesn't sit well with me...I see tons of hurt feelings.  I think that we need to be accepting no matter what "persona" someone portrays.

I'm against the idea.
 

Nadir

I don't see what's wrong with wanting to interact with people.

Greenthorn

Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 09:59:28 AM
I don't see what's wrong with wanting to interact with people.

furries are people too?  Kinda? *shrugs*
 

Nadir

Furries are RP characters. I want to talk to the writers, not their characters.

Will

But not everyone is "themselves" online, whether they have fur and a tail or not. :P  Lots of people play a "character," why is that such a problem?
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Nadir

*shrugs* Because I don't want to make friends with a lie, as cheesy as that sounds.

Will

Then the internet may not be for you. *laughs*
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Kip

Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 10:19:55 AM
*shrugs* Because I don't want to make friends with a lie, as cheesy as that sounds.

I can understand Eden's position here...

I don't mind a good mix of rp and reality when socialising but I do enjoy the socialising - getting to know the writers as seperate from their characters.  I enjoy that side of things...

Each to their own though.... it's a personal choice to limit that side of things and I can appreciate that even if I choose not to myself.

"You say good start, I say perfect ending. 
This world has no heart and mine is beyond mending."
~Jay Brannan~

"Am I an angel or a monster?  A hero or a villian? Why can't I see the difference?"
~Mohinder Suresh~

Nadir

Quote from: Will1984 on July 28, 2009, 10:21:31 AM
Then the internet may not be for you. *laughs*

*rolls eyes*

Predictable reply. I'm just saying I want a place to relax that is non-game.

Oniya

Here's a radical idea - why not simply have two.  No special privileges, no special restrictions, just 'Lounge 1' and 'Lounge 2'.  If you don't want to do 'casual RP', and something like that looks like it's happening in Lounge 1, go over to Lounge 2.  If Lounge 1 is engaged in some off-beat conversation and you'd rather chat about something less serious, hop into Lounge 2.  Or vice-versa.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Haibane

#79
Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 10:09:46 AM
Furries are RP characters. I want to talk to the writers, not their characters.
This is what Greenthorn is saying, I think, the characters *are* their personas. 24/7 in some cases. They are not role-playing, they are this way all the time. By meeting 'the furry' you are meeting them. If that's not ideal for you then don't engage them in conversation.

Nadir

Persona and character have exactly the same meaning.

Haibane

#81
Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 10:28:45 AM
Persona and character have exactly the same meaning.
I edited my post to try and make it clearer.

Another way of looking at it: I am Haibane, a 24 year old English woman. Why should I change out of that persona and behave differently just because someone wants a SB where you have to play a character.

Karma

Eden, dear... where does that concept stop? If you want to get past the "lie," then you might as well not talk to anyone online that doesn't act exactly the same way as they would in person... which is everyone.

Will

Quote from: Haibane on July 28, 2009, 10:27:39 AM
This is what Greenthorn is saying, I think, the characters *are* their personas. 24/7 in some cases.

Exactly, and keeping them out of a certain part of the site can't do anything but cause hurt feelings and resentment.  No Furries Allowed?  Wow.  Harsh.  They're not hurting anyone.
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Kip

Quote from: Karma on July 28, 2009, 10:31:24 AM
Eden, dear... where does that concept stop? If you want to get past the "lie," then you might as well not talk to anyone online that doesn't act exactly the same way as they would in person... which is everyone.

I don't think thats quite the point - How I interact here is definitely different to how I would face to face but I'm not a character in the SB here...   I do think that there is a distinct difference between character and the writer which is what I think Eden is trying to say.

Having said that, I don't think that splitting the SB to try and distinguish between character and writer is sustainable either....

"You say good start, I say perfect ending. 
This world has no heart and mine is beyond mending."
~Jay Brannan~

"Am I an angel or a monster?  A hero or a villian? Why can't I see the difference?"
~Mohinder Suresh~

Nadir

#85
Quote from: Haibane on July 28, 2009, 10:27:39 AM
This is what Greenthorn is saying, I think, the characters *are* their personas. 24/7 in some cases. They are not role-playing, they are this way all the time. By meeting 'the furry' you are meeting them. If that's not ideal for you then don't engage them in conversation.

It's very difficult not to engage in a conversation with them when they persistently ignore personal space.

I have never been pounce/licked/tickled by a stranger in the SB who wasn't sporting a set of ears. They think it's okay to do it because they are playing their characters and assume they are cute and welcome.

Taken from a PM I sent to GT, I just want a place where I can turn off. Having someone pretend to be a cat in a place where I'm trying to disassociate with the characters in my mind is counter-productive. I do not want to be around people dominated by their characters while I'm trying to reassert my own personality after an intense writing session. 

Quote from: Karma on July 28, 2009, 10:31:24 AM
Eden, dear... where does that concept stop? If you want to get past the "lie," then you might as well not talk to anyone online that doesn't act exactly the same way as they would in person... which is everyone.

There are characters and there are the people who create them. I know I am not the person I appear to be online, I am not so stupid as to think any of you are as you are here. But like Kip says, it is not what I mean.


Edit - If the SB isn't the place to get some non-game relaxation, can there be? I do not want to make anyone feel victimised, but I don't think I should have to go off the forum to find a space to unwind, that is totally deprived of any RP-related discussion.

Will

If a member consistently ignores personal space, there are ways of dealing with that.  I also disagree that only furries are responsible for that behavior, and there have definitely been non-furries that took IC interaction into OOC spaces.
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Nadir

Quote from: Will1984 on July 28, 2009, 10:46:53 AM
If a member consistently ignores personal space, there are ways of dealing with that.  I also disagree that only furries are responsible for that behavior, and there have definitely been non-furries that took IC interaction into OOC spaces.

Which is why I'm asking for a non-game area.

Will

Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 10:48:52 AM
Which is why I'm asking for a non-game area.

Where furries would be forcibly excluded?
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Greenthorn

Create a thread then?

Fracturing the SB to disclude a group isn't very...nice.
 

Nadir

Quote from: Will1984 on July 28, 2009, 10:51:51 AM
Where furries would be forcibly excluded?

No, where characters would be left on the coat hook. It wouldn't disclude anyone, just not include characters.

Valerian

Okay, everyone take a breath.

Any fracturing of the SB will end up excluding people from some parts of the SB, if only because those parts will be aimed at certain types of discussions, or light RP (including furry personas), or something else that simply doesn't interest everyone.

This discussion is entirely theoretical at this point anyway.  Everyone remember that, please, and take a step back.
"To live honorably, to harm no one, to give to each his due."
~ Ulpian, c. 530 CE

Karma

I think a light RP shoutbox would be kinda neat. I wouldn't ever use it, probably, but I like the idea.

Scott

* Scott Hugs Everybody... :)
   

Dakota

Well this is easily solved, if you wan't to talk to ME call me Jay, it's not quite my real name but it suits a purpose, and its the name i give out online. Problem solved ><

Chevalier des Poissons

Let me pause the thred for a moment.

Would anyone mind telling me what is this HB people referred to in the page 3?
-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Oniya

That would be the 'HotBox', found in Adult Socializing.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Haibane

Quote from: Eden on July 28, 2009, 10:40:46 AM
It's very difficult not to engage in a conversation with them when they persistently ignore personal space.
This sounds like you have an issue with an individual, in which case the solution is to PM them and politely advise them of the issues you have regarding personal space. If they ignore a polite request then it's time to advise a deity about their conduct.

This does not sound like an issue with furries per se but with individuals, in which case that is something for you to address and not an issue for the SB to be configured to.

QuoteI have never been pounce/licked/tickled by a stranger in the SB who wasn't sporting a set of ears. They think it's okay to do it because they are playing their characters and assume they are cute and welcome.
The solution is easy. Tell them that behaviour is not welcome.

QuoteHaving someone pretend to be a cat in a place where I'm trying to disassociate with the characters in my mind is counter-productive.
I don't think you are understanding what some of us are saying. This person may not be *pretending* to be a cat. They may actually see themselves as a cat. What they are doing *is* their usual behaviour. Your stance could be likened to telling a gay person to stop playing at being gay and be their normal heterosexual self for a while.

QuoteI do not want to be around people dominated by their characters while I'm trying to reassert my own personality after an intense writing session.
Once again, who says they are dominated by 'characters'? If people are winding you up in the SB you just have to ask them to stop.

QuoteEdit - If the SB isn't the place to get some non-game relaxation, can there be?
Chat room?

Nadir

Quote from: Haibane on July 28, 2009, 05:24:26 PM
  I don't think you are understanding what some of us are saying. This person may not be *pretending* to be a cat. They may actually see themselves as a cat. What they are doing *is* their usual behaviour. Your stance could be likened to telling a gay person to stop playing at being gay and be their normal heterosexual self for a while.

The fact they can communicate using a computer proves they are not cats.

Trieste

Garfield noooooooo!

He told me he was Garfield. :(

Nadir


Dakota

I think he was referring to personality,

And even though i cat like a cat i'm actually a wolf, well spiritually anyway, and thats where i'm going to stop, i refuse to discuss religion online lol, anyway Eden, but the playacting aside do you not think that the personalities of the 'fursona' is the personality of the person behind the screen? What i'm getting at is most furs and other role players for that matter put a good amount of thier personality into their characters.   

Nadir

Yes, but will you deny there is a difference between a character and the writer? I want to get to know writers, not characters - characters are fiction. Maybe they are a close match to the writer who creates them, but even close matches are not the people I am interacting with. I think writers are magnificent, skilled people. Characters, however intricate, are just the puppets they make. Who would talk with a character when the writer is so close? 

Dakota

Yeah your point is kinda valid, but like someone said above, tell them to stop, that you want to talk to then not the char, and like i already pointed out, if you want to talk to me use my name, no i'm not suggesting that everyone gives out their real name, i know that not everyone likes to give out that info, but i still see no reason to split the sb to exclude char's people will want to surf between them, the best way to split it, would be to have one public and one for ALL members to chat in a less restricted manner

consortium11

Quote from: Eden on July 29, 2009, 06:52:26 AM
Yes, but will you deny there is a difference between a character and the writer? I want to get to know writers, not characters - characters are fiction. Maybe they are a close match to the writer who creates them, but even close matches are not the people I am interacting with. I think writers are magnificent, skilled people. Characters, however intricate, are just the puppets they make. Who would talk with a character when the writer is so close?

Doesn't nearly everyone have a character online?

I remember from the IC vs OOC thread that several people mentioned how online they're different to how they are in real life... more confident, more flirtatious etc etc...

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your basic point... in a part of the site that is basically meant to be OOC I find it strange that people are still directly playing a character... but a lot of people do it to at least a small extent.

Valerian

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the issue is with that sort of slight difference.  If I was as quiet here as I am most other places, no one would know I existed.  So it would be easy to argue that I'm not quite myself here; but that's not a deliberate put on.  I don't set out to be more talkative and less shy every time I'm on E; it's just something that happens naturally because it's easier for me to be less shy here.

Much the same thing happens when I'm with a group of people I know well -- my gaming group, for instance -- and I become more talkative there as well.  But that's not necessarily anything to do with being in character.

Everyone's behaviour changes slightly depending on the audience, but it isn't a deliberate front, which I think is what's mainly being discussed here.  Most people don't act the same around their parents as they do with their best friends, though they might feel equally comfortable with either.
"To live honorably, to harm no one, to give to each his due."
~ Ulpian, c. 530 CE

Aestas

Personally, I don't care who you are, most people bring a persona to the table.  Their online persona.  My online persona is human.  She's much more easy going and friendly than I am in real life.  She likes to cuddle people who jump in her lap, or might drape herself across someone else's lap if a proper person appears.  (generally people I know, not jumping random people)

But it is a persona.  One who speaks my mind.  And is basically me in the way I see myself online.

I cannot feel right about trying to segregate someone else's online persona just because they identify strongly with a cat.  Or a werewolf.  They have just as much right to be there as my human self. 

I personally do not think these members are intentionally bringing out characters from their stories.  This is who they are all the time.  (Maybe online, although I am sure some wish maybe for IRL too.. i know I sometimes wish i could be as outgoing IRL as I am here. ;))

Kurzyk

#107
I agree with Aestas and Valerian.

My online persona is polite and a gentleman whose sometimes silly and playful. In real life? I'm stressed a lot of the time, crude, cagey and generally am neurotically finnicky with the human race. Will you get to know me online? Yes in the sense of my writing, hopes, dreams, fantasies, and the best side of me. But that's not me entirely.

Fact of the matter is, all we have as a medium is text. We don't know who each other's real selves are aside from the avatars and the image we choose to project of ourselves. Our online persona is not the same as real life, and is an image.

Why differientiate between human and fur? I don't know who anyone is anyway so what's the difference? Do you think that the people talking to you is the way they are in real life? Its the internet heh

Sure we honestly express parts of our personality, with interesting aspects to our character but its still not the real person. And how is that different than a writers' characters who are aspects of their personality?

You say you want to get to know the "real writer", well unless you live in my town that's not going to happen. Best way is through words, here on a forum, and words project an image, a persona. The reality of who we are online and in real life are very different.

Everything online is a persona, human, cat, furry or otherwise. I don't see any difference. The healthy balance is in knowing not to take it seriously, and that theres a difference between the person in real life and the image projected here, no matter what that image is.

Karma

I agree as well, considering it's the point I made, but there is a difference between changing your personality and changing your entire image. There's a lot more effort involved in playing as a cat than there is as playing as a person with different behaviors - and one of the main ones is actually making a demand of others to treat you as that thing you want to be. Not everyone is willing to bend to that demand.

I'm losing sight a bit of whether or not this is still related to the main subject of this thread... maybe it should have its own?

Valerian

Yes, let me clarify a bit: everyone uses personas to one extent or another, here and everywhere.  Some use them more strongly, especially online, to be wittier, or more forthright, or what have you; and some use them more strongly still, going a step further and having furry or vampiric personas, for instance.

I can see that if you yourself aren't all that different here, it can be disconcerting to see a string of cat people curling up in laps and conversing mainly by purring; but in some cases, at least, I don't believe it's a deliberate put-on, but rather a long-standing habit.

If there is any such division between a light RP shoutbox and a more general shoutbox aimed at socializing, though, the idea would be that anyone who prefers to more obviously role play (whether that involves being a cat, a vampire, or a barbarian warrior) should do the bulk of it in the appropriate area.  There wouldn't be a sign out front saying "No furries allowed!"; just a request that if you primarily want to act out sparring matches between werewolves or other off the cuff roleplaying scenarios, that you do that elsewhere.  An occasional mention of having cat ears or a fluffy tail in the socializing area wouldn't be something we would have the time or urge to police very strongly, I imagine.


Purely on a personal level, I'd rather not have any shoutbox divisions at all, but then, I don't use the existing one much.  :)
"To live honorably, to harm no one, to give to each his due."
~ Ulpian, c. 530 CE

Karma

Woo, Valerian with the grand slam. :)

Kurzyk

Quote from: Karma on July 29, 2009, 10:42:29 AM
I agree as well, considering it's the point I made, but there is a difference between changing your personality and changing your entire image. There's a lot more effort involved in playing as a cat than there is as playing as a person with different behaviors - and one of the main ones is actually making a demand of others to treat you as that thing you want to be. Not everyone is willing to bend to that demand.

I'm losing sight a bit of whether or not this is still related to the main subject of this thread... maybe it should have its own?

Noone should expect someone else to "bend to their demands" no matter what or who they are. If thats the issue, then that has nothing to do with furries, and is more a behavioral problem. If someone walked up and *kissed me on the cheek* am I supposed to comply with that? Do I bend to their demand? Do I go and request a seperate chat box without text in asterisks?

No.

If someone is being too demanding, thats a policy issue and has nothing to do with characters, shoutboxes or anything else.

See the section on Gimme Gotta have Gropes:

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=13654.0

And for the record I agree with Valerian, I dont like the idea of a shoutbox division.

Oniya

Quote from: Kurzyk on July 29, 2009, 10:49:47 AM
See the section on Gimme Gotta have Gropes:

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=13654.0

And for the record I agree with Valerian, I dont like the idea of a shoutbox division.

Actually, the last three sections seem to sum up most of the issues that people have problems with:  Poking, 'random unwanted physical attention', and clinging. 
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Greenthorn

I don't think a division needs to be made in the SB either, unless it's a members only/public division.  I don't think any member, regardless of who or what they are or want to be, should be left out of either division (if one is made).

So...if one (a division) is made, my suggestion is one that is hidden and one that is public.  No feelings can be hurt and no one will feel segregated...well except non-members...but well, they only need to become members to see the hidden SB!  ;D
 

Marguerite

*R.R*A.A*O.O*Wiki*Bordello*Whip and Apple*
You Keep On Crying, Baby, I'll Bleed You Dry
Mar Is Currently: Taking On Threads
Check My Absence Thread For Updates, Thank You

Dakota


Karma

Having it hidden would allow the rating separation too.

Paradox

That's exactly what I proposed in the very first reply to this entire thread!   :P

Quote from: Paradox on July 25, 2009, 04:01:26 PM
Here's one idea I've had for a while--- at the very least, make a shoutbox that is inaccessible to unapproved members. Rudeness and blatant sex would still be verboten, but we could at least have adult conversations without having the ever-present threat of the heavens parting and an angry admin descending with a hot rant about public face on their lips.


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

Karma

I believe that's categorized as an unhelpful comment, Para, according to staff. :P This has been a rather circular thread, though.

Paradox

How is that unhelpful? It's the same damn thing GT said...just more colorful >.>


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

Scott

If there are two shout boxes we could have intermural SB softball games :)

Bliss

I agree as well, that if there is to be a division (addition) of shoutboxes, that the most sensible one would be one completely public, and another members-only.

(I was a varsity softball pitcher, my team will totally kick butt!)
O/O ~ Wiki ~ A/A ~ Discord: Bliss#0337
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
<3 <3 <3

Chevalier des Poissons

I would dominate the softball area.
-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Kurzyk

Quote from: Scott on July 29, 2009, 01:33:17 PM
If there are two shout boxes we could have intermural SB softball games :)

Woohoo! *laughs*

I agree that if there was a split, 2 SBs member and public would make the most sense.

Maeven

I'll be the official "Water Girl."  I was never good at activities where balls were flying at my face, games involving swinging bats, getting to third base softball.

*ahem*

What a wicked game to play, to make me feel this way.
What a wicked thing to do, to let me dream of you.
What a wicked thing to say, you never felt this way.
What a wicked thing to do, to make me dream of you. 


The Cardinal Rule

Karma


Chevalier des Poissons

As long as you don't kick my balls, go ahead =X
-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Valerian

None of that for me.  Unless it's cricket, my uncoordinated self is staying out of it.


What I'm most curious about now, though, is how it might change the look of things.  Would both shoutboxes be visible at the same time?  Or would we have to switch from one to the other?
"To live honorably, to harm no one, to give to each his due."
~ Ulpian, c. 530 CE

Marguerite

Soccer or rugby is my love.

-Smiles-
*R.R*A.A*O.O*Wiki*Bordello*Whip and Apple*
You Keep On Crying, Baby, I'll Bleed You Dry
Mar Is Currently: Taking On Threads
Check My Absence Thread For Updates, Thank You

Kurzyk

Quote from: Karma on July 29, 2009, 01:42:52 PM
I prefer kickballs.

That scares the hell out of me Karma. *laughs*

Maeven

Quote from: Valerian on July 29, 2009, 01:44:35 PM
What I'm most curious about now, though, is how it might change the look of things.  Would both shoutboxes be visible at the same time?  Or would we have to switch from one to the other?

I was actually wondering that myself. 
What a wicked game to play, to make me feel this way.
What a wicked thing to do, to let me dream of you.
What a wicked thing to say, you never felt this way.
What a wicked thing to do, to make me dream of you. 


The Cardinal Rule

Chevalier des Poissons

Well, that is easy. There could be tabs, mirc-style. One would be 'open SB' and the other would be 'Members only'.
-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Oniya

^ What he said.  One of the things that new members would see on approval would be that extra tab. 
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
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O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Desan

Hmm... so this would be like the Ellounge on IRC..

I might have to stop by the SB more often to see how well this works...
And I don’t really give a f-ck, and my excuse is that I’m young.


Chevalier des Poissons

Quote from: Oniya on July 29, 2009, 01:50:41 PM
^ What he said.  One of the things that new members would see on approval would be that extra tab.

I know, I am a genius, I always have good ideas.

Now I have to come up with some idea that makes me stop getting banned from the SB D=
-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Karma

Yeah, like the Lounge... but without the extracurricular activities. :P

Haibane

Quote from: Desan on July 29, 2009, 01:57:38 PM
Hmm... so this would be like the Ellounge on IRC...
Which begs the (probably posed numerous times before) question, why not bin the SB and use IRC where we already have this useful non-members/members rooms distinction? And where if people want to get more-than-flirty they can go right ahead and set up a room of their own?

Kip

Quote from: Haibane on July 29, 2009, 04:25:39 PM
Which begs the (probably posed numerous times before) question, why not bin the SB and use IRC where we already have this useful non-members/members rooms distinction? And where if people want to get more-than-flirty they can go right ahead and set up a room of their own?

If it's up on the main page, that'd work for me - if I have to keep on going back to a separate window, I'd not follow along as well.

Part of the appeal of the SB to me is that I can look at it every time I shift in the site, not have to remember to check if conversation has moved on or not.

"You say good start, I say perfect ending. 
This world has no heart and mine is beyond mending."
~Jay Brannan~

"Am I an angel or a monster?  A hero or a villian? Why can't I see the difference?"
~Mohinder Suresh~

Dakota

Quote from: Kip on July 29, 2009, 04:44:06 PM
If it's up on the main page, that'd work for me - if I have to keep on going back to a separate window, I'd not follow along as well.

Part of the appeal of the SB to me is that I can look at it every time I shift in the site, not have to remember to check if conversation has moved on or not.

agreed, having to switch back and forth is just too much of a pain in the ass

Haibane

It's just a second tab on your browser. Is it that much effort? Wow...

Marguerite

A second tab which sucks up memory on my laptop, thank you very much. IRC and SB suck sixty to seventy percent and while I am fine with a second SB, how much memory and load will it take on the site?
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Check My Absence Thread For Updates, Thank You

Dakota

Quite a bit, whereas we would even need a second shoutbox an extra 'room' if thats what you want to call it can be added to the existing one, its easy enough

Ket

Not everyone is adept at multitasking.  Also, like Marg pointed out, certain programs suck memory, especially slowing down those who have less memory in their machines to begin with.

While I like the idea of a members only SB in addition to the one we have, I'm wondering if it won't begin to limit the interaction of new people who come up there to ask questions/hang out. 
she wears strength and darkness equally well, the girl has always been half goddess, half hell

you can find me on discord Ket#8117
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wee little Ketlings don't yet have the ability to spit forth flame with the ferocity needed to vanquish a horde of vehicular bound tiny arachnids.

Dakota

I don't think that would happen ket, people would flick between them, plus since i've been here i've noticed several members that are dedicated to the 'non member area's on the forum, i'm sure they would also keep the non members sb occupied

Karma

I really don't think members only is the way to go... but then, following the general PG-13 rule, an R/X board would have to be hidden anyway, and have the same result. Hm.

While I wouldn't say there'd be no diminishing in the normal SB's activity, I don't think it would go dead by any means.

Bliss

This seems to have gotten missed in discussion...

Quote from: Haibane on July 29, 2009, 04:25:39 PM
Which begs the (probably posed numerous times before) question, why not bin the SB and use IRC where we already have this useful non-members/members rooms distinction? And where if people want to get more-than-flirty they can go right ahead and set up a room of their own?

Well, one major reason would be that the SB is something on our own servers, in our own demense, and therefor entirely under our jurisdiction, whereas the IRC, though sporting the extant functionality you mentioned, is on servers belonging to someone else - and therefore far less easy to effectively administrate.
O/O ~ Wiki ~ A/A ~ Discord: Bliss#0337
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
<3 <3 <3

Haibane

Quote from: Bliss on July 29, 2009, 08:03:42 PM
This seems to have gotten missed in discussion...

Well, one major reason would be that the SB is something on our own servers, in our own demense, and therefor entirely under our jurisdiction, whereas the IRC, though sporting the extant functionality you mentioned, is on servers belonging to someone else - and therefore far less easy to effectively administrate.
Ah. Right. Could an IRC style facility (whether browser based or IRC-client based) be added to E or are we talking silly amounts of money and/or bandwidth to do that? The layout of IRC really lends itself well to the sort environment people seem to want and gets the rude stuff off into private rooms fast.

Kip

Quote from: Haibane on July 29, 2009, 07:45:49 PM
It's just a second tab on your browser. Is it that much effort? Wow...

It's not an effort at all as such - easy to add to what I'm doing....

But I typically have many browser tabs and windows open - I'm often doing study, family work stuff, emailling people, etc, etc as well as socialising and RPing on E.  I like the SB primarily because I can update while working on E...  If I have to continuously jump between everything else I'm doing and IRC in a tab separate to the main site - I'm going to lose conversation and not interact very well... that's all.

"You say good start, I say perfect ending. 
This world has no heart and mine is beyond mending."
~Jay Brannan~

"Am I an angel or a monster?  A hero or a villian? Why can't I see the difference?"
~Mohinder Suresh~

Scott


Haibane

Quote from: Kip on July 29, 2009, 09:50:56 PM
It's not an effort at all as such - easy to add to what I'm doing....

But I typically have many browser tabs and windows open - I'm often doing study, family work stuff, emailling people, etc, etc as well as socialising and RPing on E.  I like the SB primarily because I can update while working on E...  If I have to continuously jump between everything else I'm doing and IRC in a tab separate to the main site - I'm going to lose conversation and not interact very well... that's all.
Not wanting to sound rude at all but I have never understood this argument and I've heard it many times before when I was a mod on another forum. If you have lots of windows and tabs open and you're multitasking like an espresso-fuelled octopus in the first place, one more tab is not going to make any difference, in my view.

What I understand you are saying is that a second SB of any sort which must involve a further window, tab or panel being open is going to be rejected by you anyway?

Caeli

Actually, it's like that for me. I might be multitasking, but unless the shoutbox is in the same window (e.g., I'm working on a post and the shoutbox is at the top of my window where I can keep an eye on it), I usually can't keep up enough with the conversation to really stay "in" the conversation. Even though I have #Elliquiy open in a separate window whenever I log into Trillian, I don't switch to it half the time unless I'm actively not doing something.

Either way... I don't really care what happens to the shoutbox. I could live as well without it; if anything, it just means there'd be less wrist-slapping for people who implode all over the rules when they're using it. Which, thankfully, hasn't been many people recently. I think having one shoutbox is less potential for problems though; I think we're really doing fine as it is.

If there's a way to integrate a powerful IRC-like shoutbox into Elliquiy without overwhelming our servers, I'd be all for it. Until that happens, I'm happy with the options available now. :-)
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Dakota

#151
Haibane You have no idea what you are talking about, a second tab wouldn't be needed to split the shoutbox,

and to the person that asked about adding an irc server, irc server software can be found for free all over google, the problem is irc daemons are a bitch on server resources, Veks would probably have to purchase another server to accomodate it which really isn't a viable option.

Kip

Quote from: Haibane on July 30, 2009, 04:03:34 AM
Not wanting to sound rude at all but I have never understood this argument and I've heard it many times before when I was a mod on another forum. If you have lots of windows and tabs open and you're multitasking like an espresso-fuelled octopus in the first place, one more tab is not going to make any difference, in my view.

What I understand you are saying is that a second SB of any sort which must involve a further window, tab or panel being open is going to be rejected by you anyway?

It's not an argument as such - it's a statement of how I use the site.   As Bliss has already said - I can multitask into another window and still chat away but follow the conversation enough to chat well... maybe not.   All I'm saying is that the setup as it is at the moment works well for me - it allows me to easily keep up with SB conversation as I move around the site without needing to monitor another window or tab expressly for the purpose of socialising... 

The fact that I am multitasking doesn't mean that I'd prefer to add one more thing to follow... it also doesn't mean I'd outright reject it either as you suggest.  I'm allowed to have a preference based on what would suit me personally.  What would suit the site better may be something different because other factors need to be considered.

"You say good start, I say perfect ending. 
This world has no heart and mine is beyond mending."
~Jay Brannan~

"Am I an angel or a monster?  A hero or a villian? Why can't I see the difference?"
~Mohinder Suresh~

Bliss

Quote from: Boian on July 30, 2009, 04:21:13 AM
Haibane You have no idea what you are talking about, a second tab wouldn't be needed to split the shoutbox,

and to the person that asked about adding an irc server, irc server software can be found for free all over google, the problem is irc daemons are a bitch on server resources, Veks would probably have to purchase another server to accomodate it which really isn't a viable option.

Boian, she was talking about additional tabs because other people has pointed out that some options would, for them to even try to keep up with the SB, have to have it open in its own window.

And yes, that would probably be the biggest argument for not setting up an IRC server exclusive to E - it would probably require its own server, and Vek is still working on breaking even just with the one that he has for E.
O/O ~ Wiki ~ A/A ~ Discord: Bliss#0337
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
<3 <3 <3

Autumn Sativus

I haven't read all of the posts all the way along the thread, but wouldn't making the shoutbox into several 'boxes' just be equivalent to a mini-irc?
Us against the world
Just a couple sinners making fun of hell


~~A&A(updated March 2021)~~Tales~~Wants~~O&O~~Wiki~~

DarkAngel

Smiley Faces for the SB what are they ???


Paradox

Quote from: Evil Pixie on July 31, 2009, 03:21:54 AM
Smiley Faces for the SB what are they ???

They're the same set for the posts; hit Reply and look at the bar above where you type. You'll see them all. Press each one, and it will come out down in the text box in the form you need to type up in the SB.


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

Haibane

Quote from: Boian on July 30, 2009, 04:21:13 AM
Haibane You have no idea what you are talking about.
Clearly I don't, I just use the internet all the time. I'll let you decide how you want any new SB to be configured Boian since I won't be using it anyway.

Scott

*Grabs Boian and Haibane and locks them in straight jackets so they are forced to hug each other*

Your getting in a huff over something that hasn't, and may not even happen... Blame Veks!!! he started this post... :)

DarkAngel

Quote from: Paradox on July 31, 2009, 07:48:03 AM
 

They're the same set for the posts; hit Reply and look at the bar above where you type. You'll see them all. Press each one, and it will come out down in the text box in the form you need to type up in the SB.

Thanks Paradox

Cold Heritage

I'd enjoy a shoutbox for accepted only because it grates on me to see people who have no idea what they have to do be accepted and walk in going "where all the rp at?" or "yo dawg i like rpan so can u put sum acceptin in my profile so i can r while i p?"
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Karma


Desan

Quote from: Cold Heritage on August 01, 2009, 05:35:01 PM
"yo dawg i like rpan so can u put sum acceptin in my profile so i can r while i p?"

* Desan LAUGHS!!!!!!!!  XD XD XD
And I don’t really give a f-ck, and my excuse is that I’m young.


Karma