Upgrading the forum: Read and vote

[Vekseid]

Some of you have occasionally been noticing delays.

These have actually been going on for a very, very long time. As mentioned, the first victim was CJaC - it's not a choice of host, our current host is roughly three times as fast.

There are two things that cause this.

First, is I/O bandwidth - internal bandwidth for the machine - when Elliquiy and other vpses on Elliquiy's node perform backups. When Elliquiy was at Acceleratedweb, we were really the only ones doing this, so it wasn't much of an issue.

Here, though, a few more people are doing that, and Elliquiy runs three backups now instead of one, to shave ten seconds or so off the main forum backup time.

Obviously, a lot of people do this in the morning. I'm told that there are not very many, so I plan on living with it until we start looking into dedicated server options.



The more common issue is bad SQL on smf's part. SMF 1.x was not designed with forums of Elliquiy's size in mind, or rather, forums of Elliquiy's size and activity were not running when SMF was in its release candidate stage.

Upgrading is going to break things for awhile though, and release candidate updates - often including security items, will often break things again.

I do, however, have it on very good authority that these issues are largely resolved in 2.0

However, 'My Topics' is going to break.

Youtube inlining is going to break.

Java chat is going to break.

The Shoutbox is going to break.

The Arcade is going to break.

I'm listing these in the order in which I plan on re-implementing them. If you disagree with the order, I should explain the order of difficulty:

1: Inlining is trivial, and a far superior mod exists.
2: The Java chat is no big deal, I might instead have mibbit link to the java, or implement it in drupal to have a combo there and not have it disabled when the forums go down.
3: My Topics is only slightly more difficult, and I think I can do a better job.
4: I need to do a lot regarding the shoutbox, I fear, but it's more of a technical issue.
5: The arcade, on the other hand, is not so much difficult as it is tedious. You may end up begging the goddesses for individual games >_>

Aside from taking Elliquiy down for several hours, or at the very least, making several hours' worth of posts irrelevant, however, those are the main issues that come to mind, aside from of course the columned theme.

Please let me know your opinions, thank you : )

[King_Furby]

i personally say no. While i would like E to upgrade i simply would be a little ticked if the my topics broke. having the my topics button is so nice, i really dont want to have to bookmark all my threads on my IE favorites or go though my sig in my profile everytime i need to post in a RP.

[Greenthorn]

I voted yes simply because the lag is killing me.  Yes, I know I'm probably a "power poster" but I have been noticing the lag every day for at least a few days now.  And since anything that breaks can be fixed...I'm all for it.

[OldSchoolGamer]

The upgrade is something that's going to need to be done sooner or later, and it's the kind of thing that's not going to get any easier as time progresses.  I say just pay the price and get it over with.

[Dawg]

Yes, I say upgrade, I may contact you with some ideas that would make the transition and subsequent fixes easier for you and quicker for the users though, if you have them available as options.

[Vekseid]

Please don't vote based on the impression that My Topics will be down for very long...

[King_Furby]

I don't experience any lag on this site, it doesn't seem broken to me or in need of an update. But then again i have no experience on how forums such as these are done on the backend. If E is in bad need of upgrade i would change my vote but to me it does not seem like it really needs it. I would rather Vekseid just make the decision for all of us. but thanks for letting me give my opinion.

[Elven Sex Goddess]

I am a bit confused on everyone speaking of lag being prevalent on the forums.    For I have not experienced such.  As for an upgrade, if it makes it better then go for it.   Yet I did not vote yes, I voted 'I want ice cream,  the pumpkin seasonal flavor be good.'  :)

The reason why is because like King_Furby   I use the my topics to quickly answer rp threads.  It would make it an inconvenience.   So with that is reluctant to say yea we need an upgrade.  I mean personally have not experienced any lag.   

[Vekseid]

It would be a temporary inconvenience, regardless.

[King_Furby]

At least that is good, i can deal with temporary.

[Greenthorn]

After my 32 second "hang time" I just had...I cannot wait until it gets upgraded! *grumbles*

[Maeven]

Upgrade.  *votes*

I get the occasional lag spikes in between clicks too and, while it's only a moderate irritation now, I can only see it increasing as the forum grows.

It's certainly worth doing without a few features for a while. 

[kylie]

I don't feel strongly about it.  Update when/if you feel it is pressing. 
If more people feel it should be done sooner, I don't mind.

I have slight and periodic lag...  It usually doesn't drive me crazy.  But I'm hardly a power poster  :o
I don't use most of the features mentioned as yet, although I might pick up My Topics if a few plots get sorted out...  I try to bookmark too, though.

[ShrowdedPoet]

I figure we probably need to upgrade soon before we get some major problems.

[Trieste]

... I was very very very very very very very frustrated with it yesterday. Seemed like every time I clicked, I had to wait ... and wait ... and waaaaait ...

For me, my time is precious. I need to be able to get things done in 10 minutes, not 20 because of lag. Or ... if I know there's going to be a lot of lag, I get less done, which tends to make me cranky.

You won't like me when I'm cranky. >.>

[Greenthorn]

For us "power posters" and our sanity...UPGRADE! (please!)

[Maeven]

Don't forget us "obsessive refreshers" and the need to satisfy compulsions.

[Will]

Don't forget us "obsessive refreshers" and the need to satisfy compulsions.

*nods emphatically* :-[

[Maeven]

*nods emphatically* :-[

*packages up a little box of extra F5 keys, adds pretty Christmas paper and a big bow and ships it to Will*

[ShrowdedPoet]

*laughs*  I'm a rapid poster and obsessive refresher. . .

[Caeli]

... Please upgrade. XP The lag is driving me nuts.

[King_Furby]

it's wierd cause i have like no lag at all on Elliquiy. yet i see alot do.

[Vekseid]

Going to try converting to innodb first, should be faster >_>

[Vekseid]

Okay, this seems to be better, but not perfect. But this should be tolerable and give me more time to prepare for upgrading.

[King_Furby]

Going to try converting to innodb first, should be faster >_>

What is innobd? Is there any way to explain it to a internet dummy?

[Vekseid]

What is innobd? Is there any way to explain it to a internet dummy?

Hmm.

Okay, if you are familiar with spreadsheets, you know how you can label columns on a sheet and give them appropriate values for a given row?

You can think of that as a 'table' in a database.

In a relational database, of which SQL is a type of and MySQL is a specific software package that runs it, you allow values to reference others between tables... I am being very simplistic there, sorry.

In a 'true' SQL setup, these values are not allowed to get out of synch (amongst other things). However, this limits performance in some aspects, with certain limited benefits.

MySQL provides a number of 'database engines'. MyISAM, which does not hold to SQL's rules as tightly as it needs, is focused on speed, however there are locking issues - causing lag. Innodb follows SQL more completely, specifically involving row-level locking.

This means that, I have changed the engine so that when two people view topics at the exact same time, the lag will only occur if they are viewing the exact same thread...

...hope that helps : /

[Ezraylia]

I'm with most here. It will only be harder later and no less necessary.

I voted yes.