Scott Walker, Union Buster

[Valerian]

A lot of Tea Partiers were waving signs saying they had jobs they couldn't walk away from during the week; though even so, that seems rather like making a virtue out of necessity...

[Callie Del Noire]

I agree the offer of TEMPORARILY suspending the right to collective bargaining seems at face value to be a good first step. It still gives me the itch to think that could lead the way to a more permanent removal. Walker doesn't seem the type to be honest enough to stick to agreements he doesn't like.  Especially once the media's attention sent elsewhere.

He'd find a way to kill the agreement or use it in such a way to cripple the unions while they have no clout.

[Callie Del Noire]

Pulled this off of oNet for the spread on Florida teachers. Keep in mind to be considered a teacher you typically have to have a degree in education, teachers certification and such (comparable to the time/effort to be a RN)

United States    
               Bottom 10%    Bottom 25%  Median    Upper 75%   Top 90%
Yearly    $33,800        $40,900    $50,500    $63,600    $78,700
Florida    
Yearly    $34,000            $38,800    $46,300    $58,400    $72,000

Compared to my job as an Avionics Tech III, that is ROUGHLY the same pay with four times the requirements to be hired (most jobs require 2 to 3 years experience and no certifications) and I don't have to maintain certification and 'uptraining' to stay on the job like teachers do.

One of the best teachers I knew in highschool had to run the band program for the high school AND jr High to stay on the payroll because he'd gotten so much 'uptraining' the school board couldn't justify it otherwise. And a doctorate in music ain't cheap to pay for.

[Kuroneko]

I am a state worker in the UW system.  I'm not in a teacher's union, though I am a member of the organizing committee trying to get collective bargaining on my campus, so I get lots of emails from ATF, plus from colleagues who are in Madison demonstrating.  I thought I'd contribute contribute these links to the discussion:

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf -  this is the actual state Legislative Budget Bureau report that shows WI does not have a deficit, but rather a 121.7 million dollar surplus in this biennium. 

http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/contributor_details.phtml?&c=116585&s=WI&y=2010&summary=0&so=a&p=1&PHPSESSID=22bf189f0c094786e168070a7a7c97dd#sorttable - where walker's $ came from.

http://wiseye.org/Programming/VideoArchive/EventDetail.aspx?evhdid=3759 -  watch item number 4

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/wisconsin-scott-walker-koch-brothers

http://www.alternet.org/story/149965/wisconsin_is_a_battleground_against_the_billionaire_kochs%27_plan_to_break_labor%27s_back

Even if we do actually have a $3.6 trillion budget deficit that Walker states we have, that works out to $600 per WI citizen using 2009 census figures.  The $30 million that walker proposes we'll save over the next three months by state workers being required to contribute 10% of their salaries for the rest of their working lives in WI works out to $5.25 per person in WI every three months.  That's right, less than 20$.  Either way, I'm ready to write a check now for my portion and my husband's rather than have my earnings limited for the rest of the time I work for WI. As stated before, the only reason this bill is needed is to pay for the $140 million in payback and tax cuts that Walker pushed through in his first week as governor to pay back the people that supported his campaign.

State workers are rational people, we know that in tough times everyone has to "share the pain" as the state majority leader Suder pointed out in a speech.  It just appears that we are being asked to carry more than our fair share of the pain.  It should also be noted that contrary to the popular media, we have made sacrifices already, through de facto pay cuts in the form of mandatory furlough days (16 each year for the past two years), we have been denied raises for the past four years (even ones that were guaranteed and then recinded, and all were less than 2%, not equal to the cost of living increase) and that state workers make an average of 4.8% less than private sector employees in the same types of positions.  Educators typically make between 10% less in the case of assistant professors, to exactly 20% less in the case of full professors for the same positions in other state universities.  That's counting salaries AND benefits combined.  In many cases the benefit package is the only thing that makes is financially feasible for someone to take a UW or other state job, and losing it will have a huge impact on the educational system in the state, because we will not be able to recruit talented faculty at all levels of education.  Education students will also choose to look outside the state for jobs upon graduation.  The entire state population will suffer.  Plus, our benefits are all pre-tax deductions.  Can Walker really help the state budget by removing the tax revenue we pay on this 10% of our salaries? 

This all pales in comparison to the idea that we will not be able to talk with our employer about details of our jobs.  Even the United Nations recognizes the right to collectively bargain.  The only thing we would be able to discuss is our salaries, and that any increase has to be lower than the consumer index. 

*deep breath*  Anyway, sorry to get on a soapbox.  As you can imagine, this issue has been dominating my life for the past week and more. 

[Kuroneko]

I agree the offer of TEMPORARILY suspending the right to collective bargaining seems at face value to be a good first step. It still gives me the itch to think that could lead the way to a more permanent removal. Walker doesn't seem the type to be honest enough to stick to agreements he doesn't like.  Especially once the media's attention sent elsewhere.

He'd find a way to kill the agreement or use it in such a way to cripple the unions while they have no clout.

Sadly, the offer to make this a temporary halt has only be extended to teachers.  Health workers are not included - doctors, nurses, health aids, home care workers are excluded.  You know, because they don't count.  Meh.

[Callie Del Noire]

Sadly, the offer to make this a temporary halt has only be extended to teachers.  Health workers are not included - doctors, nurses, health aids, home care workers are excluded.  You know, because they don't count.  Meh.

I find it amazing how much some folks look down on both educators AND health care providers. I honestly don't think the average person understands just how much CRAP they go through to keep their licenses/certifications. I know my mom did it for years and when we lived in Ireland for 3 years she had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get requalified.

I think, given the working eviroment, that anyone would say 'well go find a job'. I'm in a work career that is supposedly 3% growth every year nation wide and as high as 10 to 12% in some states and yet I can't find a job that is possible to work in (hence my current use of my GI bill to get a degree in something else)

I actually had one firm outside of Macon offer me a job for 8.50/hour (median pay in Georgia for my job is like 21.25). I can get a job as a wal-mart greeter for 8.50 and starve to death quite well thank you. (providing my own tools, paying fuel costs for 100+ mile trouble calls would just let me start faster)

[Vekseid]

Oh look, how respectable:

...

Here is what I am doing in Sacramento, where they are holding a 5:30 PM event this coming Tuesday:  (1) I signed up as an organizer (2) with any luck they will contact me and I will have an “in”  (3) in or not I will be there and am asking as many other people as can get there to come with, all of us in SEIU shirts (those who don’t have them we can possibly buy some from vendors likely to be there)  (4) we are going to target the many TV cameras and reporters looking for comments from the members there  (5) we will approach the cameras to make good pictures… signs under our shirts that say things like “screw the taxpayer!”  and “you OWE me!” to be pulled out for the camera (timing is important because the signs will be taken away from us) (6) we will echo those slogans in angry sounding tones to the cameras and the reporters.  (7) if I do get the ‘in’ I am going to do my darnedest to get podium access and take the mic to do that rant from there…with any luck and if I can manage the moments to build up to it, I can probably get a cheer out of the crowd for something extreme.

...

www dot patriotactionnetwork dot com/forum/topics/get-ready-seius-purple-army

And people wonder why I'm skeptical of the signs in the video Zamdrist posted.

[Kuroneko]

Then more people should have voted you sit on your butts and don't vote you live with the results, our governor barely won but he got the votes as did the Republican Party for in my state an absolute majority.

As for banning collective bargaining fire fighters and police are forbidden to strike, what makes the rest so special. I go to work for a company in Florida they can fire me when they like and contract ,if done, with me not a union in most cases. Teachers and others would do the same a state contract for such terms or work at the convenience of the employer and let go just like everyone else pretty much has to.

If you don't want to work for the state for such and such a wage and benefits - don't. Its a free country. And it is about balancing the budget if Wisconisn can fire employees or change their pay without a union the case for most workers in private companies you can control costs. Say you need to cut pay to employees by 10% or layoff so many workers of the state you could cut the salaries and save the jobs to. As it is the state can just remove people which is halving their options. Florida could follow as will other states and this could be a good move and just make public employees on the same level as private sector employees at most they would have contracts on a case-by-case basis.

One of the big points in all of this is that people in the unions who voted for Walker had no idea that he intended to take their rights away as part of working on the state budget.  But, that was what the Koch brothers intended. Ignorance breeds complacency. 

Union teachers are not allowed to strike in WI.  They are, however, allowed to use their sick leave as they see fit. 

Firefighters and police are not part of Walker's bill.  They are going to be allowed to retain their collective bargaining rights, and will be exempt from paying additional monies for benefits and pensions, because they supported Walker in the election, and this is a governor that pays back his friends. 

State workers agreed to the furloughs imposed on us the past two years because it would prevent layoffs.  No one wants people to lose their jobs.  I certainly don't.  I was happy that my furlough prevented lay offs.  We agreed to that with a governor who actually respected us enough to consult with us rather than simply destroy our abilities to exercise our rights 

I'd be happy to take an education job in another state, if there was one available.  However, if this is allowed to happen here, it's going to set a precedent and other states will follow.  There's no use running from a issue over worker's rights, in my opinion. 

[Star Safyre]

Thank you very much for the data and for the first-hand perspective on the situation, Kuroneko.  All the teachers I know are rooting for the workers in Wisconsin to win this battle.  The way things are going in Florida, I'm very afraid teachers here will need to take careful notes on what's happening up there.

[Kuroneko]

You're welcome, Star Fyre.  Thank you to everyone in this thread for letting me vent, lol.  I really do hope that everything will be resolved in a fair and respectful manner, wherever this issue is taking place. 

[Valerian]

Well, the temporary suspension of collective bargaining idea has been shot down by Walker, anyway, so that's a moot point.  Dale Schultz, the moderate Republican who suggested that compromise, has now said that he will vote against Walker's bill as it stands.

Interesting turn of events, that.  :D

[Trieste]

"Hey! Hey, Scott!" "Yeah, Dale?" "Know what'll really fuck with 'em?" "What's that, Dale?"

[Star Safyre]

He... They... What?  Only science can explain how confusing this is to me.

[Callie Del Noire]

"Hey! Hey, Scott!" "Yeah, Dale?" "Know what'll really fuck with 'em?" "What's that, Dale?"

What?

[Trieste]

What?

If I read Val's post right, Walker proposed the suspension of collective bargaining, and Schultz proposed sending the bill through without that part. Now Walker has dropped that part - therefore agreeing to the compromise Schultz proposed - and Schultz has said he'll vote against it.

[Callie Del Noire]

If I read Val's post right, Walker proposed the suspension of collective bargaining, and Schultz proposed sending the bill through without that part. Now Walker has dropped that part - therefore agreeing to the compromise Schultz proposed - and Schultz has said he'll vote against it.

No..Walker SHOT down the change.

[Trieste]

Well, that's not nearly as funny. Harrumph. :P

[Valerian]

No, not nearly, darn it.  Sorry if I was unclear.  But Callie has it right -- Walker refused to go with the two-year suspension Schultz proposed as a compromise, and Schultz is now siding with the Democrats.

I can't blame him.  Walker keeps insisting that he only wants to fix the current budget crisis (without dropping any of his pet projects, of course), and the compromise would have let him do that.  He's letting at least one of his ulterior motives show, there.



For the record, while I am liberal-leaning, I look at individual candidates and issues rather than party affiliations, and vote accordingly.  I'm glad to see that the elected officials still do the same sometimes.

[Noelle]

Ho-lee shit.

Rep. Gordon Hintz

[Star Safyre]

Rep. Gordon Hintz

Can I vote for this guy?  Please?

[itsbeenfun2000]

I live in Wisconsin and teach in Illiniois. The question is will the WEA finally do something like call a statewide strike if this passes as is. Up til now they have been very weak in the last few decades.

[Valerian]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/22/defend-wisconsin-website-blocked_n_826724.html

If you are in the Capitol attempting to access the internet from a free wifi connection labeled “guest,” you cannot access the site defendwisconsin.org. The site has been used to provide updates on what is happening, where you can volunteer, and where supplies and goods are needed to support protesters. Administrators of the website were notified on Monday that the page is being blocked

....

State Department of Administration spokeswoman Carla Vigue said in response to the allegations, "DOA's security software automatically blocked the site, as it does all new websites."

But according to Michael Tate, chairman of the Democratic Party of Website, the DOA explanation is not sufficient, as the site had been working previously but has been blocked in the Capitol Building since Friday.

Since turning off the Democrats' microphones didn't work.  :P

Also, Walker has threatened to start layoffs as early as next week.  This is despite the fact that nothing needs to be done about his budget crisis until June, when the state fiscal year ends.  He's threatened to lay off as many as 6,000 workers if the bill isn't passed exactly as it is now.



On a more fun note, Rage Against The Machine guitarist Tom Morello, noted supporter of many liberal causes, gave a free concert for the protesters yesterday.  And popular local pizza place, Ian's Pizzeria, has been delivering hundreds of pizzas to protesters, most of them for free.  Supporters in 38 states and 12 countries (including Finland, Korea, Germany, Turkey, Canada, and of course Egypt) have been ordering pizzas on behalf of the protesters.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/02/22/egyptians-send-wisconsin-protesters-to-pizza/

[Apple of Eris]

[On a more fun note, Rage Against The Machine guitarist Tom Morello, noted supporter of many liberal causes, gave a free concert for the protesters yesterday.  And popular local pizza place, Ian's Pizzeria, has been delivering hundreds of pizzas to protesters, most of them for free.  Supporters in 38 states and 12 countries (including Finland, Korea, Germany, Turkey, Canada, and of course Egypt) have been ordering pizzas on behalf of the protesters.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/02/22/egyptians-send-wisconsin-protesters-to-pizza/

Two things:
1. This makes me wish I had done something tangible to help the Egyptian protestors, because this is just very cool.
2. It's amazing to me how with the 'net and global communication, people across the globe can actually support, in a real way, people protesting halfway around the world.

And okay I'm adding a third, I read on an egyptian bloggers page, and fogive me for not remembering where I looked at it while at work (and I never mix work and E), that some of the Egyptian protestors view what's happening in WI as an extension of the struggle of the poorer classes against the privledged elite like what happened in Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain, Libya, and elsewhere. This could be a very interesting time globally as the gap between rich and poor continues to grow and governments keep cutting and cutting but refuse to increase the tax burden on the rich.

And just on a side note, I've been wearing red every day even though I'm not in the state. :-)

[Kuroneko]

The Koch brothers have opened a lobbying office in Madison just off the capitol square. Subtle.  Not.


http://m.host.madison.com/mobile/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_7e8aa25a-3ec0-11e0-9923-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer

[Callie Del Noire]

I wasn't aware that the Governor could sell off utilities that easily. (I was in California in the 90s when the deregulated the electrical industry..stupidly) I don't think it's a wise thing to do. And from what I've read on these guys.. it's definitely not in the voters best interest.

You know I do belive that the Koch's just bought themselves a state. They are moving for NO-Bid sales of the state utilities (to the Koch groups I'm sure), they are rabidly anti-union, cutting down the state structures (wonder what comes after the teachers finish losing the ability contest their pay cuts and such.) A LOT of Walker's moves walk hand in hand with the outlook of the Koch brothers.