Boarding schools - some input needed

[Beorning]

(I wasn't sure where to put this topic, so I put it here. Staff, feel free to move it, if needed...)

I have this one RP idea that takes place at a boarding highschool. The school in RP is supposed to be rather oppressive - as it's often the case with boarding schools in fiction (TV Tropes even has a page for that). I'm wondering, though: what's the reality?

I mean, are boarding schools really more strict and harsh than normal schools? Has anyone here had any experience with them?

Also: the common trope in fiction is a rebellous teen being sent to a boarding school to get straightened up (one example would be Sal from Dumbing of Age, who got sent to a Catholic boarding school after she got into trouble with law). I was wondering: do parents do things like that in real life? Also, does something like that actually work - could a teen change significantly because of living in such a school? Or is it all a trope that has no relation to reality?

[Mathim]

(I wasn't sure where to put this topic, so I put it here. Staff, feel free to move it, if needed...)

I have this one RP idea that takes place at a boarding highschool. The school in RP is supposed to be rather oppressive - as it's often the case with boarding schools in fiction (TV Tropes even has a page for that). I'm wondering, though: what's the reality?

I mean, are boarding schools really more strict and harsh than normal schools? Has anyone here had any experience with them?

Also: the common trope in fiction is a rebellous teen being sent to a boarding school to get straightened up (one example would be Sal from Dumbing of Age, who got sent to a Catholic boarding school after she got into trouble with law). I was wondering: do parents do things like that in real life? Also, does something like that actually work - could a teen change significantly because of living in such a school? Or is it all a trope that has no relation to reality?

In elementary school our teacher read us Roald Dahl's (I think semi-autobiographical if not a work of fiction) book 'Boy' which detailed a pretty harsh account of boarding school so while in today's world it may be different, it's certainly not a secret that it could get really hairy in boarding schools from decades past.

[Oniya]

I pulled up a Google search for 'Boarding schools', and a good half of the 'sponsored ads' that showed up referenced 'troubled' or 'struggling' kids.  The rest were more 'elite' sounding - schools for the arts, college prep schools, and the like.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I spent three years in a boarding school during high school.  It was strict but fair and the administration didn't put up with any nonsense.  We wore uniforms, conformed to a rigid schedule and were required to participate in some type of physical activity like a sport or exercise regimen along with keeping our grades at a 2.8 GPA or higher.  We had semi-private rooms with some leeway for selecting a roommate and hazing was kept to a minimum.  There were legacy students, general tuition paying students and scholarship students and the administration did a good job of enforcing fair and equal treatment among us all.  Older students mentored the younger and/or new students.  We were nondenominational but did have spiritual guidance if we wished it and a form of chapel once a week with guest speakers from various regional churches.  Those who did not wish to attend were excused and did not need to provide a reason.

There are better schools than the one I attended and there are worse both in the academic and discipline arenas.  Some of them, like the military academies, are in the nature of reform schools for young men (and sometimes young women) who have a bad home life or substance abuse problems and/or getting into trouble with the law.  Others are luxurious prep schools for the upper classes bent on a college degree and/or a life in the social milieu.  There are families with legacies in these schools, colleges and universities where today's students are guaranteed admission based on family members attending in the past.  Wealthy families will also donate to the school or set up endowments to guarantee admission for their children and grandchildren and so on.  This can often be the cause of preferential treatment being expected and given.

Boarding schools in more rural areas also have to deal with contentious locals at times.  The boarders can be seen as stuck up and snobbish and might behave with an air of entitlement lording it over the parochial and public school students in the area.  This particular attitude caused a serious problem for me and a friend because of jealousy and resentment on the part of some of the students from the local public school.

There is good and there is bad but most of the problems are based on the perception of class distinction on one side or the other.

This is pretty much a solid overview of my own experience but I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.

[Beorning]

I spent three years in a boarding school during high school.  It was strict but fair and the administration didn't put up with any nonsense.  We wore uniforms, conformed to a rigid schedule and were required to participate in some type of physical activity like a sport or exercise regimen along with keeping our grades at a 2.8 GPA or higher.

Could you tell me more about the schedule, rules etc.? BTW. Was it a same-sex school or a co-ed school?

There are better schools than the one I attended and there are worse both in the academic and discipline arenas.  Some of them, like the military academies, are in the nature of reform schools for young men (and sometimes young women) who have a bad home life or substance abuse problems and/or getting into trouble with the law.

Wait - did you mean to say that the military academies are always for "troublesome" kids? I've always assumed that they are simply highschools that prepare for a future military service.

In any case, do you think that such strict schools really manage to influence the students in some way?

Others are luxurious prep schools for the upper classes bent on a college degree and/or a life in the social milieu.  There are families with legacies in these schools, colleges and universities where today's students are guaranteed admission based on family members attending in the past.  Wealthy families will also donate to the school or set up endowments to guarantee admission for their children and grandchildren and so on.  This can often be the cause of preferential treatment being expected and given.

A question: what exactly is a "prep school"? Are these schools equivalent to highschools, or something that takes place between a highschool and a college?

Boarding schools in more rural areas also have to deal with contentious locals at times.  The boarders can be seen as stuck up and snobbish and might behave with an air of entitlement lording it over the parochial and public school students in the area.  This particular attitude caused a serious problem for me and a friend because of jealousy and resentment on the part of some of the students from the local public school.

Really? Could you tell more about it?

[Oniya]

Wait - did you mean to say that the military academies are always for "troublesome" kids? I've always assumed that they are simply highschools that prepare for a future military service.

Not always for troublesome kids, but the rigorous discipline of the military can help with certain difficulties.  Some kids work better when they have a fixed routine, especially if they come from a tumultuous home-life. 

[Beguile's Mistress]

Could you tell me more about the schedule, rules etc.? BTW. Was it a same-sex school or a co-ed school?

The class schedule was pretty much the same as a day school with wake up times, meal times and lights out times also scheduled in.  Think a combination of going to a day school and toeing the line to your parents' schedule at home.  Weekends had chapel scheduled in and some other activities but these were casual to allow students to visit their homes or have visitors come to the school.  My school was all females with both female and male teachers and coaches.  However, any class or team lead by a male teacher also had a female aide attached.  We were also chaperoned on trips to town until we turned sixteen.

Wait - did you mean to say that the military academies are always for "troublesome" kids? I've always assumed that they are simply highschools that prepare for a future military service.

No.  Military schools are for the purpose of getting young men used to military life so they can enter the officer training programs in the various branches of service.  However, just like some young adult male offenders are encouraged to join the service in lieu of jail time underage offenders and those with other problems are sent off to military schools (not the academies like West Point) so they can benefit from the discipline they offer.

In any case, do you think that such strict schools really manage to influence the students in some way?

All schools have an influence.  Strict schools often have a stronger one, most often for the good but sometimes in a negative way.

A question: what exactly is a "prep school"? Are these schools equivalent to highschools, or something that takes place between a highschool and a college?

A 'prep' school is what it says, a school that prepares a student for the rigors of college or university where the onus is on individual performance and responsibility for getting the work done.  Where most schools teach subjects prep schools teach students how to learn and gain knowledge on their own.  There is more oversight than in college but the burden is heavier on the student than the teacher.

Really? Could you tell more about it

Just like in college towns where the local residents are often called "townies" there is a certain amount of interaction among the students of the boarding schools and the children of the local residents and based on previous behaviors between the two there can be a lot of conflict.  I went to an all girls school and there was a lot of jealousy and resentment toward us from the young women in the town since they perceived us as encroaching on their young men.  It might have been different if there had been a boys school in the area but because there wasn't the town girls didn't want to share their boys with us.  I'll not go into detail but a few of the town girls became quite aggressive toward us if they thought the town boys were giving us any attention.  The locals also resented the fact that their economy was dependent in some ways on the school's presence and because a lot of the staff employed at the school came from the town they locals perceived things as a sort of master/servant environment.

[Beorning]

BeMi, thanks for your answers!

I'm curious: is it awful to go to a school with uniforms? The only time I had to wear one was in my first elementary school, which I attended during the Communist era. When the Communist times ended, I was also switching a school - and there were no uniforms at the new school.

BTW. In an all-female school, how does it work with boyfriends? Is it possible to have a boyfriend when in such a school? Are boyfriends allowed on the school grounds?

Not always for troublesome kids, but the rigorous discipline of the military can help with certain difficulties.  Some kids work better when they have a fixed routine, especially if they come from a tumultuous home-life. 

Really? Could you elaborate? I have no idea about child-rearing...

BTW. Weird... back when I was a teenager and in early twenties, the idea of a kid being sent to the military seemed scary and unjust. Now that I'm in mid-thirties, I've growned to understand the need of discipline...

Gah! I've joined the establishment!  :o  :o  :o

[Beguile's Mistress]

I didn't mind the uniforms.  It can seem stifling to be told what to wear but the main reason for uniforms or a strict dress code is to provide a sense of unity and equality among the students.  Students from families with limited resources don't have to feel out-classed by wealthier or better dressed students.

I was in high school during a sort of transitional era where relationships with boys were permitted to a certain extent.  At the age of sixteen we could go into town on a school shuttle and without a chaperon and if we met boys that was up to us.  Boys could visit us at school but not in our rooms and overnight visitors were housed in a separate building.  We had dances or social functions at our school that we could invite boys to attend.  Our parents or guardians had to give written permission for town visits or boys to visit us on campus.

At risk children sent to military schools often come from single parent homes or homes where both parents work outside the home.  There is often little or no supervision for these children after the age of ten-years-old and a ten year old may also be the care take of younger children.  This leaves them open to temptation and danger.  A structured environment such as a military school provides supervision the children do not often get at home.  However, even children from highly supervised and functional families and home lives get into difficulties and benefit from the regimentation of a military school.

[Beorning]

I didn't mind the uniforms.  It can seem stifling to be told what to wear but the main reason for uniforms or a strict dress code is to provide a sense of unity and equality among the students.  Students from families with limited resources don't have to feel out-classed by wealthier or better dressed students.

I don't know, I've always felt that school uniforms are an attempt to stamp out individuality :) But that may be my inner teenager talking...

BTW. Did you have to wear uniforms all the time, or just in classes? Did you have to wear uniforms during town visits?

I was in high school during a sort of transitional era where relationships with boys were permitted to a certain extent.  At the age of sixteen we could go into town on a school shuttle and without a chaperon and if we met boys that was up to us.  Boys could visit us at school but not in our rooms and overnight visitors were housed in a separate building.  We had dances or social functions at our school that we could invite boys to attend.  Our parents or guardians had to give written permission for town visits or boys to visit us on campus.

Hm. So, if the parents gave no such permission, a student would be basically confined to the school grounds without visitors?

BTW. How far was the school from the town?

At risk children sent to military schools often come from single parent homes or homes where both parents work outside the home.  There is often little or no supervision for these children after the age of ten-years-old and a ten year old may also be the care take of younger children.  This leaves them open to temptation and danger.  A structured environment such as a military school provides supervision the children do not often get at home.  However, even children from highly supervised and functional families and home lives get into difficulties and benefit from the regimentation of a military school.

I admit I wonder how does a kid get into difficulties. I was a very Lawful Good kid, so I can't get into the mindset of teenage rebels who get into trouble...

[Oniya]

I admit I wonder how does a kid get into difficulties. I was a very Lawful Good kid, so I can't get into the mindset of teenage rebels who get into trouble...

Speaking as both a parent and former teen, there's a point where many kids start to see 'what the limits are'.  Whether it's 'Can I get away with not doing this boring assignment?' or 'Can I get away with hiding this iPod in my bag when I walk out of the store?'  Some parents know how to impress upon their child that these things shouldn't be done - others have difficulty.  The boarding school gives the child someone else in place of the parents, who has had the experience of literally dozens (if not hundreds) of kids to teach that lesson to.

[Beorning]

Huh. I've never had any inclination to do things like that... Why would I want to steal an iPod? I've known that this is wrong...

Hmmmm. It begins to look like all these creepy YA horror stories and movies of parents and schools oppressing their kids are just misguided, then? The parents from Disturbing Behavior are right? And my RP idea makes no sense... *thoughtful frown*

[Oniya]

Not even something as little as 'Can I get away with reading all night under the covers with a flashlight?'  (That was my personal favorite.)

At any rate, an RP doesn't always have to make real-life sense.  Something as simple as adjusting the where and when of the setting might also have an impact - I found this article in the New Yorker when I Googled:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/17/whipping-boy

The events there took place about 40 years ago.

[Beorning]

Not even something as little as 'Can I get away with reading all night under the covers with a flashlight?'  (That was my personal favorite.)

I don't think so, no... Hmm.

At any rate, an RP doesn't always have to make real-life sense.  Something as simple as adjusting the where and when of the setting might also have an impact - I found this article in the New Yorker when I Googled:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/17/whipping-boy

The events there took place about 40 years ago.

Interesting article. Thanks :)

[consortium11]

Spent about a year as a day pupil (i.e. didn't actually board) at a boarding school and have a large number of close friends and acquaintances who spent their entire school lives at them.

For context these are the stereotypical English posh boarding schools... think the Eton, Harrow and Fettes type.

Are these boarding schools more strict than a "normal" school? Almost certainly yes. They are in many ways the last open remnants of Empire and the class system (although that's been whittled down by the arrival of "new" money) and they pride themselves on installing discipline and the stereotypical English "stiff upper lip". School uniforms are mandatory throughout the school day, adults in general (and teachers especially) are referred to by title (normally "Sir/Miss") and rules and regulations are observed more strictly then you'll generally find in a "normal" school. That doesn't necessarily make them "oppressive" but it's a step along the way.

Then you have the boarding element itself. If you're living at home your parents will often cut you some slack from time to time... either because they're your parents or simply because for whatever reason they're not around/that deeply involved. In contrast at a boarding school it's literally the job of matrons, house-masters and the like to keep you in line and while they may come to care for you deeply (it's worth remembering that if a kid spends their whole educational life in a boarding school that the staff there will almost certainly spend more time with them then their parents do) that doesn't change the fact that it's their job. A parent who normally imposes an 11pm curfew may make an allowance or simply not be in a position to check... someone at a boarding school who does the same risks losing their career. It leads to an almost benevolently antagonistic relationship between staff and pupils not entirely dissimilar to a more light-hearted take on inmates and guards in a prison; pupils keep attempting to get that bit more freedom and the staff keep trying to catch them doing it.

The other oppressive issue with boarding schools is the bullying. Unlike at a "normal" school where if one is getting bullied one can at least go home at the end of the day and at weekends at boarding school there's basically no escape; your bullies live where you live. Combine that with the stiff upper lip concept mentioned above and the abuse can be horrifying. There have also been structures that largely codified that abuse; "fagging" was a system where junior pupils were expected to serve the more senior ones and while the name originally had no link to sexual activity there was a huge amount of sexual abuse. It's largely died out (at least in the semi-formal sense) but there very nature of boarding makes it a risk.

I can't really comment on the "straightening up"/reforming aspect of these schools because that wasn't really what they were about; parents send their kids there for the prestige and the education rather than to sort out trouble makers and most of the kids start attending at an age where they haven't even had a chance to rebel yet. What I will say is that if anything those schools tended to do the opposite in my experience. Do you know the stereotype about catholic schoolgirls; went to a strict convent school and then as soon as they left started drinking, doing drugs and sleeping with anything that moved? In my experience that applied to almost all the boarders I know (male and female). With things like alcohol and sex being such taboos and the nature of boarding making it so difficult to engage in them once they got the opportunity they drowned themselves in it... which was helped by the fact almost all came from staggeringly rich families so they had the money to burn. To use myself as an example, while I had my mid-to-late teens to get used to drinking, a bit of drug taking and sex so by the time I was at university and had a lot more freedom I was "over" them to the extent they weren't a massive deal (not that I didn't still enjoy them...) the boarders I knew had never had the chance to normalize those things.

There's also been some psychological research that suggests boarding from a young age can be harmful in the long term; the effect of your parents in effect "abandoning" you can damage the psyche, especially combined with some of the issues mentioned above.

[Beorning]

Sorry for performing thread necromancy on this thread, but...

Yesterday, I happened to see the Wild Child movie with Emma Roberts. It's this teen comedy about a spoiled American girl being sent to a British boarding school to get straightened out... And I still don't get it.

What exactly is supposed to make the boarding schools so special? Based on the movie, they seem to be like any other high school - just away from home and with almost no contact with the outside. Oh, and the students have to go to sleep early. Is it that much of a difference?

BTW. Are school uniforms are really supposed to be that great? I've never understood why some schools and parents are so big on them...

BTW. the Second: Aren't these male-only and female-only schools harmful? I mean, they make it hard for the students to develop normal rapport with the opposite sex...

[Oniya]

The major arguments for school uniforms are 1) by having a uniform, 'distractions' like who has the latest expensive fashion or someone wearing an inappropriate outfit (too revealing, offensive slogan, whatever) are eliminated and 2) by having a uniform, parents don't have to worry about buying a lot of school clothes (just enough to get from one laundry day to the next.)

The reality of the situation is that you can still tell who is the 'rich kid' and who is the 'poor kid' by the state of the uniforms.  Some kids will end up with a uniform that is thread-bare, hardly fits, or is otherwise in poor condition because they have to make do with donated uniforms, hand-me-downs, or wearing the same uniform multiple days in a row.  (The matter of 'hardly fitting' is painfully obvious in girls who develop more rapidly than their peers, but can't afford to get the larger uniforms.)

Also, if the uniform is only sold in one particular location, the retailer knows that they have you at their mercy as far as prices go.

[consortium11]

Just to add another argument in favour of school uniforms they're also supposed to install a level of pride and community spirit within the school while being a sort of unifying force.

What's so special about British boarding schools? Talking about the posh ones it's the prestige, level of attention, facilities and quality of education/educators with the cynical also noting how the old boy/girl network can help throughout life.

Single gender schools impacting on how one handles the opposite sex? In my opinion yes... see my earlier post about the "catholic schoolgirl" stereotype and how it seems at least partially true; the same applies to males as well.

[Beorning]

Speaking of school uniforms: I've heard they are meant to instill pride and community spirit, but... has anybody conducted any studies as to what the students think about them? Because my suspicion is that most of the students hate them. Considering that almost none of these kids seem to be wearing these uniforms respectfully (at least if movies and media snippets are to be believed)...

Also, why do these uniforms have to often be so *ugly*? I watched Princess Diaries recently (don't ask ;)) and I was astounded by how ugly the school uniforms were in this movie. If I was a girl and had to wear this kind of uniform, I'd be puking every day or something like that...  :-(

[Oniya]

The ones here aren't so much ugly as plain.  In middle school, it was a collared shirt (light blue, white, or navy) with dark blue or khaki slacks/skirts/skorts/ (at least 'fingertip long' on the shorter options).  No 'T-shirt' necks, no designs.  In the high school, there are two 'learning paths' that have uniforms:  The 'health care' path (with a red logo 'polo shirt' and white slacks/shoes) and the 'tech' path (only requirement is a black logo 'polo shirt'.)

[Beorning]

Well, these sound sensible. But there are so many schools that force kids to wear ties - or, in the case of girls, even uglier neck adornments. And the shirt designs can be awful, too...

[Lilias]

Uniforms evolve, like any other fashion direction.

Over here, pretty much everyone wears them. Only the odd independent school does away with them (and even they can have dress codes every bit as fussy). I see kids not just living half the day in them, but also in no hurry to take them off afterwards. So they can't be that inconvenienced by them.

Primary schools tend to go for logo'ed jumpers over plain shirts; secondary schools can follow the same pattern adding a tie, or go for blazers instead. Public schools (the 'ancient and very exclusive private' kind, not the free community kind) and royally chartered grammar schools tend to have more elaborate uniforms, but the prestige they carry overrides any other objections. The local boys' grammar school makes them wear a suit in sixth form (years 12-13), and even if no 16-year-old can really carry a suit well, it's good practice for the kind of work environment they are groomed to enter.