The Love of Christ

[Oniya]

Paul is also rather misogynistic, and could have used a healthy dose of WWJD.

[meikle]

Paul is also rather misogynistic, and could have used a healthy dose of WWJD.

Which parts of Paul are you looking at?

I mean, everyone in that era is pretty misogynistic, but you can see Paul struggling with it at a few points (like where he talks about head coverings and haircuts, and kind of goes back and forth between the role of women vs all people as equals.)

There's Paul stuff that's really openly offensive (Timothy, say), but most of that was written 'as' Paul after Paul died.  I think Paul is a pretty good example of someone who really is trying to set a good example of what Jesus wanted.

[ColdBloodedJellyDoughnut]

I guess that is one of the main issues I personally have with the Bible. One of my friends firmly believed that the Bible was written by God, whereas I believe that the Bible was written by men. Fallible men. I don't believe their words are the word of God, mostly because if I did I'd despair at the state of the hereafter.

[Tamhansen]

I don't think many people believe the bible to be written by god, contrary for example to what many muslims feel about the Qu'ran, where they use the beautiful circular logic of Allah wrote the Qu'ran because it says so in the Qu'ran, and what is said in the Qu'ran is true, because Allah wrote it.

Now as for the bible, the first part of the bible, or the old testament was written thousands of years ago by the Israelites held captive in Babylon IIRC, while the second part has the originators clearly identified. Now what puzzles me is the personality switch god makes in between part one and part two really. Going from Fire and brimstone and turning people into salt, or flooding the world, to being a peace loving all forgiving hippy in the new testament.

Now I believe in the message Jesus sent, and i hope people can follow through with it. But whether there's a divine being behind it, I wonder. Point being, does there have to be? Would jesus' message be any less if he were just a carpenter's son. Aren't his ideas just plain good ideas no matter who's behind them?

[Rinzler]

Personally, I reckon Jesus was morally questionable in a lot of ways, too. Especially when it comes to the 'family values' that certain people tout:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26) [Hmmm...but what about women coming to him?]

"I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-36)

You know, some of that does sound pretty cultish...

But to be fair, Jesus could be a bit of a hoot, too, especially when it comes to fig trees.

"And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there. Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. " (Matthew 21:17-19)

I guess it must be a parable of some sort, but done as a piece of performance art. I don't find the bible all that inspiring, frankly. To be fair, I did try with it, many years ago, but I just kept on laughing.

[Izzie Aditi]

I'm just gonna leave this here..

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

[Serephino]

Keep in mind what got put into the Bible was what the authors thought would serve their message.  Who knows what Jesus was really like. 

[sakuratears]

Before I start the meat of my opening post, I would like to state some things about my past that could likely help you understand how I came to my position. I'd also like to apologize in advance, this post is chiefly directed at Christians, but it may be worth reading even if you're not.

I am the third child of eight, eldest son. My parents are deeply religious, and have raised me and my siblings in a very orthodox calvinist manner. I was raised to believe that if you weren't elected, you would go to hell. Now for those unfamiliar with the calvinist strains of Christianity, one of the beliefs calvinism is well known for is that your entry into heaven or hell was decided long before you were born.

As I am not attracted solely to women, I do not fit into the view of what one of the Elect was like in the church I grew up in. I couldn't tell my parents, I couldn't tell my friends, I couldn't even tell my teachers or my doctor. Everyone I had close ties to was carefully selected, or perhaps elected, by my parents to share their world view.

At my eighteenth birthday, I packed up my goods and left the house. I still haven't spoken to my parents since that day. They know why. I send them christmas cards every year. If my phone number or address changes, I inform them. Because I still love my parents, no matter how much they loathe me.

Due to how I was raised, I strayed from the path of christianity. I grew bitter and resentful of religion. Until, one day, at a gathering of young adult socialists, I met a few christians. We started to talk. I was touched. They knew about my sexuality, and told me why they didn't feel the need to lecture me on it.

Judge not, lest ye be judged. (Mt. 7:1)

This made me think. They gave me a Bible. I started to flip through it. Particularly the new testament, as they recommended me. During my childhood, most of my studies were focused on Paul and the Old Testament.

And I realized that the message of Christianity was one of brotherhood. Of unconditional love in the nonromantic sense. This is more involved than it may seem, and it certainly is no easy task. Another part of the scripture makes this even clearer.

This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you. (Jn. 15:12)

In other words, you have to love others as Jesus loves us. And that is a deep, unconditional love. He loved everyone, and forgave everyone for their sins. As such, it is not a Christian's duty to judge and condemn, but to love and forgive.

Not necessarily forget. Nor does it mean that we can't call it out. But we have to forgive it. After we have called it out, told our friend, our enemy, or even a complete stranger, what they did wrong? We have to forgive them, we have to move on.

This is not a quote from the scripture, but it describes very well what it is like to forgive.

When we forgive evil we do not excuse it, we do not tolerate it, we do not smother it. We look the evil full in the face, call it what it is, let its horror shock and stun and enrage us, and only then do we forgive it. (Louis B. Smedes)

But it is important to remember that as shocked, stunned and enraged as we may be by evil, it is a Christian's task to forgive. That does not mean we can't prepare for them to disappoint us again. Nor does it mean we have to blindly trust. At some point, it may be necessary to stop handing out new chances, as much as we would love to give them. But we should not judge. We should forgive.

Judging others is a kind of risky hubris that not only is against scripture, but is also what gives Christianity a bad name to people who do not follow in Christ's footsteps. Judging others does not provide them with faith. Preaching at them does not provide them with faith.

A Christian should lead by the example of serving the world. He (or she) should do his very best to love everyone. not to turn anyone away who asks for advice. Do his (or her) best to improve the world. If you don't have time, donate to charity. If you don't have money, try to donate your time.

Every Christian has a way to serve the world, it may not be obvious. It is likely not easy. But it's there, and if you ask God for guidance, you should be able to discover what talents God intends you to serve the world with.

I hope, I sincerely hope, that this was educating to at least someone out there.

I look forward to your responses.

I would like to talk to you about this....I am also Christian, but have been really confused about homosexuality. For me I don't think it's a sin for anybody to be truly in love with each other no matter if they are attracted to the same sex. Like you, I am not only attracted to one sex (men). But because I have been around Christians that think this is the worse sin ever  ::)...I haven't told a lot of people.