Health and Taxes (was: Re: government shut down)

[Bloodied Porcelain]

Well hopefully my girlfriend will start cooking before that :D

My point is, it's not what you eat, it's how you eat.

What and How are the same thing in this instance... What you're describing right now (eating shit and not getting enough nutrition but still losing weight) is called skinny-fat. You're thin outwardly, but you are tearing your body up below the surface and you'll end up paying for it later. It's no better than obeisity, and in a lot of instances it's worse.

In other words:

"What you eat" = fast food vs healthy food
"How you eat" = well vs bad

Yes, how much does have some effect, but not so much as to completely negate the WHAT, and especially not in the long run.

PS: Why don't YOU cook?

Uh not exactly  :-) I am a retired wrestler so I have a little experience with weight control. What you eat is incredibly relevant as is volume of food intake as well as exercise. I think one of Russian decent can probably appreciate the intricacies of weight control involved with wrestlers. I used to regularly loose 15 lbs a day but I also did not eat and worked out like Alexander Karelin running through Siberian snow drifts with a tree on his back. You can control weight the right way and the wrong way.

Do it wrong like I did so many times back in the day and you get older like I am now and you have some serious digestive issues. Not to mention a life long battle with anorexia and bulimia. And high fat foods like fast food pack on pounds and is cheap. So those in lower income eat a lot of it and have the health problems that go along with it. There is also a just plain genetic factor as per body fat percentage not to mention woman have a higher body fat content than men due to the fact they bear children. Now sitting on your butt eating junk food and drinking soda can and will make you gain weight and sedentary life style is a big factor in obesity but it is much more complicated than that.

My point exactly.

[Dashenka]

Uh not exactly  :-) I am a retired wrestler so I have a little experience with weight control. What you eat is incredibly relevant as is volume of food intake as well as exercise. I think one of Russian decent can probably appreciate the intricacies of weight control involved with wrestlers. I used to regularly loose 15 lbs a day but I also did not eat and worked out like Alexander Karelin running through Siberian snow drifts with a tree on his back. You can control weight the right way and the wrong way.

Do it wrong like I did so many times back in the day and you get older like I am now and you have some serious digestive issues. Not to mention a life long battle with anorexia and bulimia. And high fat foods like fast food pack on pounds and is cheap. So those in lower income eat a lot of it and have the health problems that go along with it. There is also a just plain genetic factor as per body fat percentage not to mention woman have a higher body fat content than men due to the fact they bear children. Now sitting on your butt eating junk food and drinking soda can and will make you gain weight and sedentary life style is a big factor in obesity but it is much more complicated than that.

I do admit that food is to blame but I'm not sure if it's the processed foods or the junkfoods that are the biggest problem.

Like here in England you've got the Roast. I love it, it's fat and everything and a lot of girls won't eat it because they are afraid it makes them fat. Eating it and having enough excercise will NOT make you fat. Having canned beans rather than fresh beans will not make you fat. Having a discount chicken over a free range chicken will not make you fat. There is so much negativity about food in general that it's ridiculous.

Junkfood can make you fat but having fries once a week with your steak and canned beans will not.

PS: Why don't YOU cook?

I hate it and I can't. I don't have the patience for it. I put on the potatoes and let it boil and then forget about it until they explode in the kitchen because there's no more water in the pan and then you have to clean the kitchen....  Meat's even more frustrating. I never got it right. It either turned out raw or it turned out like a rubber rock, so I was like.. why would I cook if somebody else can do it for me?


But worry not about me, I have been looking into cooking classes :)

[Serephino]

Water is good for you, yes, but I can't drink my tap water.  Due to the water authority being idiots, my tap water smells and tastes like swimming pool water because of unsafe chlorine levels.  The water authority avoids having to fix it by taking their testing samples in the center of town, where the levels aren't nearly so high.  Anyway...

I'm thirsty.  In my pocket is $2.50.  I go to the store for something to drink.  There is fruit juice, which is better for me in most cases.  That costs $2.38.  I can afford it, yes, but let's say pay day is a week away.  That bottle of juice will only last 3 days.  Then there is a 2 liter bottle of soda; nothing but empty calorie sugar.  It's not the healthy choice, however, the bottle is only a dollar, and will last 4 days.  So, I can get 2 bottles of soda for less than the price of juice, which is healthier, and I won't run out and be stuck with pool water until pay day.

This is not just a hypothetical situation.  This is my life.  I know soda is bad for me, I just can't afford anything better.  I know McDonald's food is bad for me, but it costs a fraction of what something healthier would cost.  It's not that I don't care.  I'm just really poor.  It would be nice to not wake up screaming from searing pain in my knee because of the extra weight put on it. 

Oh, by the way, I walk 2 miles 3 times a week.  It hurts like hell, my feet, knees, hips, and ankles are killing me by the end, but I do it.  I've lost a little weight since starting it, but I'm not thin.  And when winter comes, no way in hell am I going out in 12 degree whether and freezing my ass off.  So then what do I do?  It would be nice to have the weather nice all year round, but that is not reality.  Winters here in Pennsylvania suck.

[Bloodied Porcelain]

I do admit that food is to blame but I'm not sure if it's the processed foods or the junkfoods that are the biggest problem.

Like here in England you've got the Roast. I love it, it's fat and everything and a lot of girls won't eat it because they are afraid it makes them fat. Eating it and having enough excercise will NOT make you fat. Having canned beans rather than fresh beans will not make you fat. Having a discount chicken over a free range chicken will not make you fat. There is so much negativity about food in general that it's ridiculous.

Junkfood can make you fat but having fries once a week with your steak and canned beans will not.


I hate it and I can't. I don't have the patience for it. I put on the potatoes and let it boil and then forget about it until they explode in the kitchen because there's no more water in the pan and then you have to clean the kitchen....  Meat's even more frustrating. I never got it right. It either turned out raw or it turned out like a rubber rock, so I was like.. why would I cook if somebody else can do it for me?


But worry not about me, I have been looking into cooking classes :)

I don't think you know what processed food is, which is where most of the disagreement is coming from here...

Junk food IS processed food. Processed food = food substitutes. IE Kraft Mac n Cheese. That "sauce powder" is not real cheese, it's processed crap made to taste like cheese. Same goes with fast food. If you had any clue what is IN that stuff, you wouldn't eat it half as often as you do. Most of it isn't real food.

Real food is meat, veggies, fruits, etc. And before you try to say that there's no difference in fresh beans and canned beans, yes there is. Canned beans have almost no nutritional value by the time they're eaten because of the way they're packaged to keep them edible. Do you know what the farms and plants that grow and sell that stuff do? The truly fresh stuff gets frozen. The not quite ripe stuff gets sold as fresh (because it ripens during transport and in the store), and the stuff that's old/beat up/not really worth much of anything gets put in the can. That's WHY it's so cheap, the quality is next to nothing.

Meat is much the same principle. The good meat that has nutritional value sells for more, the meat that doesn't have much and is from animals that are given feed that isn't good for them sells for cheaper because it's not worth as much because it's not as good for you, while the stuff from free-range animals that are kept off the chemicals and medicines  and whatnot as much as possible sells for more because it's better for you and you're not taking in checmicals your body isn't meant to process.

Water is good for you, yes, but I can't drink my tap water.  Due to the water authority being idiots, my tap water smells and tastes like swimming pool water because of unsafe chlorine levels.  The water authority avoids having to fix it by taking their testing samples in the center of town, where the levels aren't nearly so high.  Anyway...

I'm thirsty.  In my pocket is $2.50.  I go to the store for something to drink.  There is fruit juice, which is better for me in most cases.  That costs $2.38.  I can afford it, yes, but let's say pay day is a week away.  That bottle of juice will only last 3 days.  Then there is a 2 liter bottle of soda; nothing but empty calorie sugar.  It's not the healthy choice, however, the bottle is only a dollar, and will last 4 days.  So, I can get 2 bottles of soda for less than the price of juice, which is healthier, and I won't run out and be stuck with pool water until pay day.

This is not just a hypothetical situation.  This is my life.  I know soda is bad for me, I just can't afford anything better.  I know McDonald's food is bad for me, but it costs a fraction of what something healthier would cost.  It's not that I don't care.  I'm just really poor.  It would be nice to not wake up screaming from searing pain in my knee because of the extra weight put on it. 

Oh, by the way, I walk 2 miles 3 times a week.  It hurts like hell, my feet, knees, hips, and ankles are killing me by the end, but I do it.  I've lost a little weight since starting it, but I'm not thin.  And when winter comes, no way in hell am I going out in 12 degree whether and freezing my ass off.  So then what do I do?  It would be nice to have the weather nice all year round, but that is not reality.  Winters here in Pennsylvania suck.

:( I want to bottle up gallons of water from the nice wells we have here and send it to you now. *hugs*

[Dashenka]

Don't complain about winters to a Russian alright? None of you have any idea about winter unless you're from freaking Alaska or perhaps the northern states of the US and Canada or gaggedLouise.

You can walk in sub zero temperatures. In fact it even burns more calories than in summer because your body needs to stay warm. So that's an invalid argument.

Okay so soda is more expensive than juice but what about bottled water? Or tea? Or coffee? Or milk?

There's more than soda and juice. But not having drinkable tap water is pretty bummed. I remember it from back in Moscow and it sucks.



Okay BP I thought processed food was stuff like canned food and all. My bad. In that case I do agree with you that processed food is probably not the best choice for your health.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Could try to buy a filtered water pitcher Serephino in order to drink more water.

[Bloodied Porcelain]

Don't complain about winters to a Russian alright? None of you have any idea about winter unless you're from freaking Alaska or perhaps the northern states of the US and Canada or gaggedLouise.

You can walk in sub zero temperatures. In fact it even burns more calories than in summer because your body needs to stay warm. So that's an invalid argument.

Okay so soda is more expensive than juice but what about bottled water? Or tea? Or coffee? Or milk?

There's more than soda and juice. But not having drinkable tap water is pretty bummed. I remember it from back in Moscow and it sucks.



Okay BP I thought processed food was stuff like canned food and all. My bad. In that case I do agree with you that processed food is probably not the best choice for your health.

Bottled water here costs as much as bottled juice, and it's the juice that's more expensive, not the soda. Milk is ridiculously overpriced (last time I looked it was close to 4 bucks a gallon and with how fast it goes bad... you have to basically overdose on the stuff to get rid of it fast enough that it doesn't go bad on you LOL). Coffee and tea both require water to make, which takes you back to square one.

[Dashenka]

Maybe an ignorant question but doesn't boiling the water get rid of the chlorides?  :-[

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I was going to say, not necessarily square one.  Boiling the water for tea would clear up the issue of contaminants. 

[Bloodied Porcelain]

Maybe an ignorant question but doesn't boiling the water get rid of the chlorides?  :-[

I was going to say, not necessarily square one.  Boiling the water for tea would clear up the issue of contaminants. 

Contaminants, yes. Taste? Not really. I've had water before that was "safe" to drink but I couldn't drink it because the taste of all the stuff they used to clean it was so bad it made me ill.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Well tea is a flavor additive essentially and there are cheap ones to put into the water in order to make them taste better.  I mean living a better lifestyle in terms of health is not easier, but is certainly doable.

[Bloodied Porcelain]

Well tea is a flavor additive essentially and there are cheap ones to put into the water in order to make them taste better.  I mean living a better lifestyle in terms of health is not easier, but is certainly doable.

Have you ever tried to drink tea made with bad water? >.> Even the cheap ridiculously strong stuff just ends up being like try to mask the smell of a dairy farm with aerosol air fresheners.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I live in a state that draws its water from swamps and from a river that the rest of the country dumps their chemicals into so that they don't have to taste them.  So I can sympathize with tea over bad water, but you do what must be done.

[Vekseid]

Don't complain about winters to a Russian alright? None of you have any idea about winter unless you're from freaking Alaska or perhaps the northern states of the US and Canada or gaggedLouise.

You can walk in sub zero temperatures. In fact it even burns more calories than in summer because your body needs to stay warm. So that's an invalid argument.

While being from Minnesota (which gets colder than most of inhabited Alaska) I can share some incredulity about the temperatures people are calling 'cold', please remember not everyone is you. The body actually shifts it's metabolism for these situations, and this is not an immediate process. You and I are used to it. This is not exactly going to be true for everyone. Bashing is not necessary.

[Dashenka]

While being from Minnesota (which gets colder than most of inhabited Alaska) I can share some incredulity about the temperatures people are calling 'cold', please remember not everyone is you. The body actually shifts it's metabolism for these situations, and this is not an immediate process. You and I are used to it. This is not exactly going to be true for everyone. Bashing is not necessary.

It being too cold to walk is never a good reason because if you dress up warm enough your body will do the rest. Philadelphia temperatures cannot be so cold that it requires special training or anything. That's all I was saying.

[Callie Del Noire]

It being too cold to walk is never a good reason because if you dress up warm enough your body will do the rest. Philadelphia temperatures cannot be so cold that it requires special training or anything. That's all I was saying.

Ever worked a flight line on a carrier off the coast of Korea? Or one in Iceland or Maine in the middle of winter during a Nor-easter? It's a shock to this southern boy's systems.

Do the math (cause I don't know it) 4 or 5 below zero BEFORE windchill with gusts up to 20 knots (or a constant 20 knots on the carrier).

I looked like Ralphie from 'The Christmas story'. There is a reason I live in Florida now.  Temp drops below 30, my knees hurt.. hell if it drops more than 35 degrees in less than a five hour span I ache.

[Dashenka]

No I haven't but I would like the experience to one day stand on the flight line of carrier.

Having a bit of troubles with the Fahrenheit stuff but all I was saying, yes for the -30 celcius in Moscow, you probably need a bit of training but if you live in a certain place which has -5 celcius regularly in winter, not going out because it's cold, isn't really a legitimate reason for me. Not to sound harsh but if you have to and if it;s for your health, a wooden jumper and a big jacket will keep anybody warm enough, even people from Florida or Arizona.

Besides.. hey...

If it gets that cold, can't you melt snow and bottle that? Doesn't get fresher than that. I'm not taking the piss, would that be an option? Regardless of how efficient it is.

[Iniquitous]

It being too cold to walk is never a good reason because if you dress up warm enough your body will do the rest. Philadelphia temperatures cannot be so cold that it requires special training or anything. That's all I was saying.

I've lived in North Dakota in the winter, Ottawa Canada in the winter, Northwest Pennsylvania in the winter, UP Michigan in the winter, upstate NY near the Canadian border in the winter and northern Maine in the winter. I know damn well what cold feels like and yes, it can be too damn cold to put on 5-6 layers of clothes and go outside to walk a mile or two. I've done it when I've had to and been in excruciating pain in my ears/jaw region thanks to TMJ problems, toes and feet so cold they are numb despite two pairs of socks and winter boots, hands and fingers red and burning despite winter gloves. I swear it seems like you will disagree with everyone no matter what. You do not take into account that each person is different - that means what they can tolerate is different. Just because you find no issue with something does not mean that everyone else should be the same.

[Dashenka]

Okay I stand corrected.

[Kythia]

Having a bit of troubles with the Fahrenheit stuff but all I was saying, yes for the -30 celcius in Moscow, you probably need a bit of training but if you live in a certain place which has -5 celcius regularly in winter, not going out because it's cold, isn't really a legitimate reason for me. Not to sound harsh but if you have to and if it;s for your health, a wooden jumper and a big jacket will keep anybody warm enough, even people from Florida or Arizona.

The lowest average monthly low in Moscow is -10 Celsius  I would suggest the people of Moscow would also need special training to deal with -30

[Callie Del Noire]

No I haven't but I would like the experience to one day stand on the flight line of carrier.

Having a bit of troubles with the Fahrenheit stuff but all I was saying, yes for the -30 celcius in Moscow, you probably need a bit of training but if you live in a certain place which has -5 celcius regularly in winter, not going out because it's cold, isn't really a legitimate reason for me. Not to sound harsh but if you have to and if it;s for your health, a wooden jumper and a big jacket will keep anybody warm enough, even people from Florida or Arizona.

Besides.. hey...

If it gets that cold, can't you melt snow and bottle that? Doesn't get fresher than that. I'm not taking the piss, would that be an option? Regardless of how efficient it is.

I'm betting you don't have joint issues (yet). :D Trust me.. I got them. I have early stage arthritis on my left hand such that I can't cross my fingers anymore. I have to use Baoding balls to help me with limberness in my hands so I can remain able to build cable assemblies.

Cold really takes it out of me.. and I have friends that can handle cold but humidity tears their joints up.

[Serephino]

*comes back from his shower*

Philadelphia temps?  Oh, no, try Appalachian Mountain temps.  Maybe it's not as bad as Russia, but it's pretty damned cold to me.  The weather varies, but last winter was bad.  Windchill was below zero most days, and there was a foot of snow on the ground, and an inch of ice on the roads.  I still walked to the post office because it's only 2 streets away, but it was pretty miserable.  I can tell you from first hand experience that slipping and falling on an icy road hurts.

But my point was that just simply walking is not the solution.  For one, there are things like weather that prevent an outdoor activity like that.  Two, when one doesn't have a fast metabolism, it isn't enough.  Losing weight is hard.  I'm trying, and not having much luck. 

We did get a filter pitcher when my boyfriend got a good paycheck a little while back, so we are drinking more water.  I do try and plan for healthier meals at least a few times a week.  I get chicken, stuff for marinades, and frozen veggies.  Things like that are why 2 weeks worth of groceries for 2 people ends up being $182.  The weight is not coming off.  It would be so nice if a healthier diet and a little exercise was some kind of magic bullet, but once the weight is on, it does not want to come off.

My health is crap.  My joints are fucked up because of my weight, and I'm only 28, and that's only going to get worse as I age.  I get kidney stones from time to time, though not as much since I started drinking more water.  I've had them get stuck twice.  You don't know pain until you've had a tiny little stone get stuck so badly it has to be surgically removed.  I had to have my gallbladder removed several years ago.  I didn't have insurance at the time, so I had to pay with credit Bank of America was dumb enough to give me.  It caused me to have to declare bankruptcy.

And I was thinking about it, and I'm 2nd generation poor as dirt.  My dad made bad health choices.  He smoked, and was an alcoholic.  He got cancer, and because he had heart disease, partly from bad genetics, and partly from lifestyle, he didn't survive treatment.  Maybe you can argue against giving him healthcare for his heart, because it wouldn't have been nearly so bad had he not smoked like a chimney, but what about my mother and I?  Because of his choices, my mother was left being a single parent, having to work hard to keep food on the table.  The only reason we didn't end up homeless was because my grandpa had the means and desire to buy out our mortgage from the bank.  We ate crappy frozen food because it's what we could afford, and because my mom didn't have the time/energy to cook.  So, should we have been punished for my dad's bad choices?  I'm glad my state didn't think so.  I grew up on free school lunches and free state health insurance.     

[Retribution]

I am very sorry about your sad state of affairs Serephino. And as I said earlier I have no clue how to help fix situations like yours. But I would be interested in knowing what you might suggest as a means for the cycle of poverty being passed from father to son being broken.

[Dashenka]

The lowest average monthly low in Moscow is -10 Celsius  I would suggest the people of Moscow would also need special training to deal with -30

I certainly don't. These are day temperatures, in the night it gets to -30 quite often.

I'm betting you don't have joint issues (yet). :D Trust me.. I got them. I have early stage arthritis on my left hand such that I can't cross my fingers anymore. I have to use Baoding balls to help me with limberness in my hands so I can remain able to build cable assemblies.

Cold really takes it out of me.. and I have friends that can handle cold but humidity tears their joints up.

Humidity and heat is something I really can't take. That's why Florida would be my idea of hell. :D

[Bloodied Porcelain]

I am very sorry about your sad state of affairs Serephino. And as I said earlier I have no clue how to help fix situations like yours. But I would be interested in knowing what you might suggest as a means for the cycle of poverty being passed from father to son being broken.

Education. There are countries where college is free, and private college is pretty much unheard of. It should be the same everywhere. Putting a dollar amount on something that literally makes all the difference in the world is ridiculous. Admittedly not everyone will take advantage of it, but education is the most proven solution to poverty stricken areas and countries. We really need to get education out of private hands. It shouldn't be something people get to profit off of to the degree that it is.

Obviously this wont get everyone out of poverty, but I firmly believe it's the first in a series of steps that should be taken.