ISIS (the Islamic State of Iraq/Syria/Levant)

[consortium11]

Trying to follow the exact name of terrorist groups is always somewhat challenging and it seems especially so in the case of Islamic groups; in it's time what now calls itself the Islamic State has been known as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn, Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Jabhat al-Nusra, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (hence ISIS) and now the Islamic State.

That said I'm not sure on what basis we shouldn't call them the Islamic State... it's what they call themselves these days. We still refer to the LFA as the Lord's Resistance Army despite them doing the Lord's work as much as Islamic State is Islamic, not being an army and not fighting a resistance.

[Oniya]

Well, the 'Holy Roman Empire' was neither Roman, nor an Empire (not particularly 'holy', either...) - it was a loose collection of mostly Germanic territories.

I am glad to see that there is some backlash about the name, though.  In this day and age, using a name like that implies speaking for all people meeting the descriptor, even (some might say especially) when that is far from the case.

[kylie]

       Owen Jones wrote a column I thought was interesting, with these recommendations.  Though I'm not sure how practical they are.  I'm just not sure if Iraq can really be integrated...  I'm not clear whether further partition is a viable long-term option (or the least worst option), either.

At the moment, many Iraqi Sunni Muslims prefer Isis to the sectarian Shia militias. Until that is addressed through a process of national reconciliation and by integrating the Sunni minority – reversing the damage done by Maliki-style sectarianism – little will change. Jihadis have previously been turfed out by Sunni tribes, but there must be confidence in what replaces Isis.

Murderous Shia militias must be dismantled. Kurdish peshmerga must, undoubtedly, be properly armed. The western-backed dictatorships of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar must be compelled to crack down on the funding networks that are helping to sustain Isis and other terrorists. As General Jonathan Shaw says, these western client states must stop exporting the Wahhabi/Salafist ideology that underpins jihadi terrorists everywhere. Economic sanctions – and certainly arms embargoes – must result from non-compliance. External military intervention in Iraq and Syria must be led by regional powers, not by western forces as Isis craves.

[NenaShadowslayer]

I'm manly upset they dare to use the name of the great Goddess Isis, Goddess of magic, wife of Orisi, Lady of the otherworld. Sure, they use it as an abbreviation, but it's still her name. It's ironic as all get out; a group of terrorism who clam to worship the one true god and treat their woman like slaves deemed their group Isis, a Goddess who would sooner kill a mortal man for telling her what to do as.
As for what we've messed up, I believe we've messed up for a lot longer than we'd like to admit. I mean, we BOMBED innocent children in japan to get a point across in the cold war for Hekita's sakes. If that's not the biggest screw up we've made, what is?

[Ephiral]

I'm manly upset they dare to use the name of the great Goddess Isis, Goddess of magic, wife of Orisi, Lady of the otherworld. Sure, they use it as an abbreviation, but it's still her name. It's ironic as all get out; a group of terrorism who clam to worship the one true god and treat their woman like slaves deemed their group Isis, a Goddess who would sooner kill a mortal man for telling her what to do as.
As for what we've messed up, I believe we've messed up for a lot longer than we'd like to admit. I mean, we BOMBED innocent children in japan to get a point across in the cold war for Hekita's sakes. If that's not the biggest screw up we've made, what is?

Is... is this a Poe? Because it's pretty incoherent and ignorant.

First, you're... you're aware that "they" don't actually call it ISIS, because they're using neither the English language nor the Western alphabet, right? Please tell me you understand this.

Second: Really? Mass murder, mayhem, and oppression, and your issue is word selection and perceived offense to a deity? You, um, might want to check your priorities if human lives are that low on it.

Third: Um, what bombing are you referring to? Because the obvious one was WW2, not the cold war.

Fourth: Depends on how you define "we", but if you're really looking for a candidate for "biggest screwup by Western civilization", I'd humbly submit the near-genocide of indigenous people in North America and Australia.

[Question Mark]

Is... is this a Poe? Because it's pretty incoherent and ignorant.

First, you're... you're aware that "they" don't actually call it ISIS, because they're using neither the English language nor the Western alphabet, right? Please tell me you understand this.

Second: Really? Mass murder, mayhem, and oppression, and your issue is word selection and perceived offense to a deity? You, um, might want to check your priorities if human lives are that low on it.

Third: Um, what bombing are you referring to? Because the obvious one was WW2, not the cold war.

Fourth: Depends on how you define "we", but if you're really looking for a candidate for "biggest screwup by Western civilization", I'd humbly submit the near-genocide of indigenous people in North America and Australia.

I won't speak to her post, but I think you could have worded your response a bit more civilly.

[Kythia]

Huh, I thought that was HealerGirl at first.  I was amazed.

[gaggedLouise]

Huh, I thought that was HealerGirl at first.  I was amazed.

Yep, I keep connecting her to that avie too. She's been effectively on a time-out for several months, for some unknown reason: I hope she will be back with us in time.

[TheGlyphstone]

Maybe it's her evil twin from a parallel universe.

[Kythia]

Nah, she'd have a goatee if she were an evil twin.

[Garuss Vakarian]

I have a question pertaining to this thread: Does any one think Americans and Britain's should be concerned, if not worried about Islamic/Issis influence in America and Europe?

If so, how much of a threat do you think Indoctrination/converting posses?

I understand the home states are not the present issue. And I feel for the people being inflicted by Issis. But it is clear that Isis is trying to influence people to be radical in America and Europe, through online vids/adds. What with people running armed across the whitehouse lawn, and people beheading co workers. It seems people here are listening.

To me it is something of concern, and should be more then enough reason to put troops on the ground. (On top of the previous reasons, which are also more then enough for us to take action. Inaction at this point is morally wrong, be you Catholic, a Non radical Islamic, or even an atheist. Inaction is sadly however, something many countries are currently guilty of.) Bombing wont work, and unless we can obtain a foot hold they will continue to indoctrinate more young boys into the fold, effectively replenishing numbers.

[Ebb]

I think the idea of enacting violence against anyone in response to YouTube videos is morally indefensible and likely to be completely ineffective. This isn't to say that we shouldn't be acting against ISIS in some capacity, but it ought to be in response to their own documented instances of brutality, or in the interests of preserving global stability, not in an effort to prevent the indoctrination that you're concerned about.

[Garuss Vakarian]

I was not saying its my main concern, or should be any ones. In fact I did state that there are better reasons to act, I was merely asking if it is of any real concern to any one else. Sorry if the question was stupid. Just trying to contribute to a conversation.

[Ebb]

I don't think it's a stupid question at all. It's very reasonable to ask what is the minimum provocation required in order to justify violence. I expect that many people will have answers different from my own.

[kylie]

     And here's the Guardian arguing that not only is the West lining up for proxy war against Syria and (at least by way of denying stability in the neighborhood) Iran, but also that perhaps the US isn't all that interested in truly decimating ISIS at all. 

     Of course, funny how very little the people at home hear in the early years, while these things are being started.  Even lately I'd be rather surprised if there's a very serious investigation in much of the American press of who's who historically inside say, Syria (not that it's the easiest thing to do lately, granted but how did we get there anyway).  It's all just "Yuhuh, we're funding 'the better Muslims' in a war against tyranny" or some vague "defending our interests, nothing to see here" vibe -- blah blah.  While barely spending ten minutes of news time on who the heck is who or where the money is going exactly (bribe, wink nudge, weapons, authoritarian state buddies, warlord, bribe some more).

     Though I'm rather more dubious about the last sentence.  So, bleh all around.

In reality, US and western policy in the conflagration that is now the Middle East is in the classic mould of imperial divide-and-rule. American forces bomb one set of rebels while backing another in Syria, and mount what are effectively joint military operations with Iran against Isis in Iraq while supporting Saudi Arabia’s military campaign against Iranian-backed Houthi forces in Yemen. However confused US policy may often be, a weak, partitioned Iraq and Syria fit such an approach perfectly.

What’s clear is that Isis and its monstrosities won’t be defeated by the same powers that brought it to Iraq and Syria in the first place, or whose open and covert war-making has fostered it in the years since. Endless western military interventions in the Middle East have brought only destruction and division. It’s the people of the region who can cure this disease – not those who incubated the virus.

[Sheoldred]

I find it funny how all the toys distributed in this video are tiny guns. Even the little girl at 12.:47 gets a gun. 'No, hun, we don't have dolls. But you can have something better.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsN5OkFpREY