Interest: D&D 3.5 Gestalt (Seeking GM/Group)

[PhantomPistoleer]

Hi!

I'm dying to play in a D&D 3.5 Gestalt campaign, preferably in the 4th-6th level range.  I know it's a long shot finding a GM.

What I'm looking for is a party-centric campaign where the characters are manageable.  There is a leader, and everyone follows said leader, and choices are considered democratically.  I'm interested in a group dynamic that borders on being something of a corporation, with characters understanding and being contractually bound to the group as a whole.  Of course beggars can't be choosers, and I'll probably nip at anything that comes my way.

Except, I'm not interested in being part of a HUGE group that has to be split up to make things manageable.  For whatever reason, I typically don't get placed into groups with the people I'm really hoping to play with.

Please and thanks!

[Wintercat]

I might consider running this, on the side, but I'd got a few key questions to ask first.

a) What 'Theme' are you looking for?
If its a dungeon crawl and challenges against monsters, I have no problem with the bash the door in and beat them up gameplay, but if you are looking for a game where you are put in an investigator's position or tracking down crooks, or even trying to deal with a royalty at one another's throats, then I'd like to hear the thoughts beforehand. I've run "war" games, I've run "deceit" games, as well as hybrids, but I prefer knowing. ''

Likewise, is this 'Grimdark' Fantasy? Is your desire for a more 'Idyllic' Fantasy, perhaps one that you need to protect? Or is it a blend of the two, a more 'Balanced' Fantasy where dark elements are present but where you can find havens where a more secure feel can be achieved ?

b) What is the 'Rating' you are looking for?
Is the game intended to be 'classic' Dungeons and Dragons play in a sense, its adventurers against monsters and villains and that's what its all about? Or is the game intended to be more dark with gore and brutality and a fear of death in the air? Are you looking for a game where mature themes of sexuality emerge one form or another? A general idea of where you think the game should be on those lines.

c) What is the 'team size' you are looking for?
Personally I've thought that D&D 3.5 works best with 3-6 players, with the 4 being generally an optimal size with the rules that are available. That doesn't take the GM into account of course, we're talking of the players with each playing a single character in the tale. If you've got different numbers in mind, I'd rather know beforehand.

d) Free-Roam or Grand Quest?
Which is more your play-style? Do you prefer to wander the land and actively seek adventure yourself, or do you like it the way many computer games provide a story, a grand quest comes in your path and though what you decide to do along that path is upto you, it seems that fates are telling you that you are going to be needed?



Even if it turns out that we can't share a tale, I'd like to ask this information for any other prospective DMs to view through as well. Maybe it'll help you find the DM and the players who share your thoughts.

[PhantomPistoleer]

a) What 'Theme' are you looking for?
If its a dungeon crawl and challenges against monsters, I have no problem with the bash the door in and beat them up gameplay, but if you are looking for a game where you are put in an investigator's position or tracking down crooks, or even trying to deal with a royalty at one another's throats, then I'd like to hear the thoughts beforehand. I've run "war" games, I've run "deceit" games, as well as hybrids, but I prefer knowing. ''

My preferred concept is an adventurer seeking fame and fortune.  Basic D&D, essentially.  That generally puts him into harm's way in a dungeon, I suppose, but I'm not opposed to different adventures having different themes.  Also, I really like the difficulties (whether those difficulties be legal or physical) of obtaining passage to the dungeon.  I'm not interested in partaking in a "war" game, however, if it means that my character has to control armies.  I would much rather prefer to play as a soldier in a unit in a grand-scale battle, if and only if fighting in said battle will grant him access to a dungeon.

Likewise, is this 'Grimdark' Fantasy? Is your desire for a more 'Idyllic' Fantasy, perhaps one that you need to protect? Or is it a blend of the two, a more 'Balanced' Fantasy where dark elements are present but where you can find havens where a more secure feel can be achieved?

I prefer grim fantasies where civilization is at constant war with hordes of monsters and city states are at constant war with one another.  People are rough, callous, selfish, but one can always find vice among them.

b) What is the 'Rating' you are looking for?
Is the game intended to be 'classic' Dungeons and Dragons play in a sense, its adventurers against monsters and villains and that's what its all about? Or is the game intended to be more dark with gore and brutality and a fear of death in the air? Are you looking for a game where mature themes of sexuality emerge one form or another? A general idea of where you think the game should be on those lines.

I'm looking for something that is a bit more brutal, I think.  I feel that D&D already has a lot of subtext when it comes to sex, but it's just implicit.  Orcs raping women has always been an issue, for example.  I feel that it's important for characters in game to have sexual liaisons (and enormous libidos), but I feel that this part emerges on account of the adventurer's thrill-seeking nature, and not because people are more likely to have outrageous sex in the world.  Sex dungeons, as it were, can have a place if it's appropriate:  say that the group is sifting through a lost temple of the Goddess of love.  But I'm not particularly looking for doing something like that.  Also, I'm not keen on using the erotic books.

c) What is the 'team size' you are looking for?
Personally I've thought that D&D 3.5 works best with 3-6 players, with the 4 being generally an optimal size with the rules that are available. That doesn't take the GM into account of course, we're talking of the players with each playing a single character in the tale. If you've got different numbers in mind, I'd rather know beforehand.

I totally agree with you.  I'm not keen on playing large groups, and I'm also not keen playing solos.  I would prefer not to play in a party full of sexually inaccessible characters, however.  Also, I want there to be a limit as to how many character classes you can pick for a single character (for example, I don't want to see a Fighter 4/Rogue 1/Wizard 1 gestalted with a Cleric 1/Barbarian 3/Swordsage 2).  I don't want to give a limit, I just don't want things to get unreasonable.

d) Free-Roam or Grand Quest?
Which is more your play-style? Do you prefer to wander the land and actively seek adventure yourself, or do you like it the way many computer games provide a story, a grand quest comes in your path and though what you decide to do along that path is upto you, it seems that fates are telling you that you are going to be needed?

I don't really like "grand quests," but I don't want it to be "free-form."  The best example of what I prefer is something akin to the Sunless Citadel, which has a clue inside of it as to the location of another dungeon.  I don't want to give you the impression that I only like playing dungeons.  I also enjoy transit between towns, whenever there is any.

--

Thanks for your interest, Wintercat.  I'm very happy to respond to your questions, as I had thought the idea dead in the water since yesterday.

[RubySlippers]

I'm posting possible interest then I was waiting for the replies to the question but never Gestalted before so am a virgin in this sort of DnD. My idea though is a simple one combine two base classes I'm not all that fancy like a old style multi-class such as a Fighter/Thief or a Cleric/Wizard or a Monk/Sorceror keeping it simpler as examples.

[Wintercat]

Thank you for your answers, PhantomPistoller, and welcome along, RubySlippers.

I personally prefer to avoid having 10+ classes on 1 character if possible. I personally prefer playing a Core Class a long way, or for a gestalt, playing 2 core classes. I am not much of a multi-classer in general, and my NPCs may reflect this, but if you are alright with that I would not mind running this game.

I have a fair sized number of 3.5 Edition D&D books, as well as some 3.0 books and Pathfinder books. I don't touch 4.0. I also have some Forgotten Realms books, and Eberron books, but I'd prefer to avoid setting-specific books at least. The reason I mention this is I'd like to talk ab it about what books could be looked through for materials, and what people would want to ban from the game. Personally at least, I'd want to keep all "Dragon Magazine" content out. I don't have them, and can't check it if someone is cheating. I doubt anyone here would really want to cheat but it takes 1 bad apple to ruin an entire game sometimes.

I'd prefer to leave the erotic material to the players themselves, if they want to flirt with a barmaid, I can NPC her but she might be world-weary and not too keen on responding in a grimdark world. Nonetheless, the above example of a Temple of a Love Goddess was a good point, such places would certainly warrant their share of attention.

As would breaking into an evil wizard's tower only to find him in Bed with a Succubus and staring at the adventurers in shock...

Which might be because they just broke the magic sigils keeping the succubus from gulping down his very soul, by pushing the door open and scraping the chalkmarks in the floor near it.

Anyhow, I am not against the idea, and I could try it. I would like to know if there's more interest before starting. I think that I'd appreciate having a 3rd member for the party still before giving it a 'go', and 4 would be best. 5 or 6 if there was that much attention, could be negotiated with the group.

I've tried to run some D&D games before, the action seems to die out when someone goes missing in the middle of combat though. For that reason, I'd probably insist on NPCing a character if their player is gone too long, to keep the game from bogging down too much, especially with a fight scene.

But for a thought, here's one post to think about, as a possible game. To see if the atmosphere is right and what not.



The Tradegate of Trisholm

The world has become a dangerous place, and the stranger may be a threat. Little hamlets and villages quiet down when a rider passes by. There are few places that hold up the civilization's presence though. Towns dot the countryside here and there, and old ruins stand where borders of kingdoms used to lay. These days, the rule of those kingdoms is rarely felt, so weakened by the years of wear and tear that their grasp on their own lands has been lost, and rarely felt.

The sun was setting over the lands and the little town of Trisholm was preparing for the nightfall. The few merchants that had followed the old trade road had already settled into the local inn to wait until daylight to continue their travel by morning, the guards had been sent to watch over the walls surrounding the town. The west and east gates were being closed when a guard on the wall shouted at the west wall, rising his voice. "I see travellers, hold the doors a little longer."

So they did, but not without calling a few more guards near, just in case. The region was dangerous, and they wanted to know what was coming in, Whoever it was, would have to pass by the guard sergeant before being allowed into the town. That was the rule, after the sun had set in the horizon. These strangers came far too close to nightfall for the guard to give them a gentler treatment.

Chainmails kept making thier ringing noise as the guards set up ready to slam the gates shut and bar them with the sturdy beam once the travellers were in, the additional guards standing at ready with their hands holding onto their spears just in case.

[abandoneddolly]

I would be intrested in playing. If you need another player. I have always wanted to do something dand  but never really had the oppurtunity. I have all the 3.5 books.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I'm interested to see what books you'll be permitting.

I don't really understand psionics, and I'm not particular to incarnum classes.

I'm personally thinking of playing a ranger/rogue...  but I'll have to see what everyone else develops.

[SomeGuy]

I'd be interested as a player, the more grim setting is a nice change and I love gestalt. It makes various builds and interesting, but not necessarily good PrCs more viable.

I am a very firm believer in part cooperation, having your own story and stuff is great- working against the rest of the party because "it's what they would do" isn't.

Ugh, the stories I could tell...

[Wintercat]

With 4 players, I think we got a necessary number to form a good team with there already. While I think 1-2 people might still be allowed, I think that this is already a fairly good size.

The game is PhantomPistoleer's thought, however, so I'm just along as a DM that would be willing to run this game.

@SomeGuy: Agreed, I've seen two people who stabbed one another to death in one of the games, because one was Lawful Good and the other was Chaotic Neutral that pulled a damn nasty prank on the LG character, who seemed to ascribe to a 'Eye for an Eye' type of Law and things escalated.

Now, as for the books I think that I could make small lists of 'OK' and 'NO' books briefly, and you are free to comment about additions.

---OK---
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Dragon Magic
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Magic Item Compendium
Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook II
Spell Compendium
---NO---
Book of Erotic Fantasy (While I think Sexuality is fine in game, do you people want to play sex with rules?)
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Complete Psionic
Drow of the Underdark (Unless you want the whole game to be about Drow, please, no.)
Expanded Psionics Handbook (I am willing to lift this restriction if people are in favor of it, but Psionics add a whole notch to difficulty at times)
Tome of Battle (I would prefer to make this clear: If you want to use this book, the NPCs will too.)
Tome of Magic (Same as above.)

Those would be the books available to players, what Monstrous Manuals I'd pick to use would be upto me. I'd also prefer to keep setting specific rulebooks out, so no Eberron or Forgotten Realms specific classes or such.

As for deities for the divine-class players, I think we could get along with the standard Pantheon in the Player's Handbook, and that's all the deities that are known to the players. There may be few more, but they're monstrous deities mainly.

This game, if you want me to run it that is, would also contain the following characteristics to start with:

Level: 6
Gestalt Rule: Players can combine 2 classes as per Gestalt rules, but the classes are set at level 1 and unchangeable. If you take a Prestige Class, you take -1- class. You don't take 1 level of previous classes/new class AND 1 level of prestige class. So leaving the initial 'Duality' of Gestalt means you accept a loss of power growth.
Ability Scores: All abilities start at 10, and you can divide 28 points among them. 11 through 16 costs 1 point per increase, the final 2 ability increases cost 2 ability points per increase. So, Ability score of 16 costs 6 points, and 18 costs 10 points. Racial ability modifiers follow after, and you get +1 Ability Point for Level 4 ability increase.
Starting Wealth: All characters possess a total wealth of 15,000 gold pieces. This is 2,000 gold pieces more than standard adventurer for the level would have, but I believe it should go along with their more-than-average abilities to have also acquired a little more rewards. No single item can cost more than 7,500 gold pieces however, or you have to check it with me first and have some very convincing reason how you have come across something that costly.
Experience: All players begin at 15,000 xp, and need 21,000 xp for their next level up.
Crafting Magic Items: Negotiable, but character will acquire 'XP debt' they have to pay before they will begin acquiring experience, lagging them behind others. I wont drop their level for this, but will lay down this penalty. Likewise, the 'XP debt' has a maximum of 1,000 experience spent on crafting some items.

I'll listen to any other questions, complaints, and screams now then.

[SomeGuy]

@SomeGuy: Agreed, I've seen two people who stabbed one another to death in one of the games, because one was Lawful Good and the other was Chaotic Neutral that pulled a damn nasty prank on the LG character, who seemed to ascribe to a 'Eye for an Eye' type of Law and things escalated.

There was another good one where someone made a character who only had one goal, being left completely alone. They then got pissed when no one else was willing to spend our time trying to convince her she should come along with us after the second time she left.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Now, as for the books I think that I could make small lists of 'OK' and 'NO' books briefly, and you are free to comment about additions.

---OK---
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Dragon Magic
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Magic Item Compendium
Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook II
Spell Compendium
---NO---
Book of Erotic Fantasy (While I think Sexuality is fine in game, do you people want to play sex with rules?)
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Complete Psionic
Drow of the Underdark (Unless you want the whole game to be about Drow, please, no.)
Expanded Psionics Handbook (I am willing to lift this restriction if people are in favor of it, but Psionics add a whole notch to difficulty at times)
Tome of Battle (I would prefer to make this clear: If you want to use this book, the NPCs will too.)
Tome of Magic (Same as above.)

Level: 6
Gestalt Rule: Players can combine 2 classes as per Gestalt rules, but the classes are set at level 1 and unchangeable. If you take a Prestige Class, you take -1- class. You don't take 1 level of previous classes/new class AND 1 level of prestige class. So leaving the initial 'Duality' of Gestalt means you accept a loss of power growth.
Ability Scores: All abilities start at 10, and you can divide 28 points among them. 11 through 16 costs 1 point per increase, the final 2 ability increases cost 2 ability points per increase. So, Ability score of 16 costs 6 points, and 18 costs 10 points. Racial ability modifiers follow after, and you get +1 Ability Point for Level 4 ability increase.
Starting Wealth: All characters possess a total wealth of 15,000 gold pieces. This is 2,000 gold pieces more than standard adventurer for the level would have, but I believe it should go along with their more-than-average abilities to have also acquired a little more rewards. No single item can cost more than 7,500 gold pieces however, or you have to check it with me first and have some very convincing reason how you have come across something that costly.
Experience: All players begin at 15,000 xp, and need 21,000 xp for their next level up.
Crafting Magic Items: Negotiable, but character will acquire 'XP debt' they have to pay before they will begin acquiring experience, lagging them behind others. I wont drop their level for this, but will lay down this penalty. Likewise, the 'XP debt' has a maximum of 1,000 experience spent on crafting some items.

I'm okay with this, with exception to the gestalt rule imposed.  I emphatically do not like the switch between gestalt and single-class when reaching a prestige class.  Couldn't we just limit it to one prestige class per gestalt level (so you can't be two gestalt classes at the same time)?

[RubySlippers]

I have access to only the core rulebook and whatever else is in the on-line SRD and have to check over the Gestalt rules since I don't want a prestige class not sure how this is going to work overall.

EDIT: Ok as I read them I would be a 6th Level character with the best of both core classes taken in everything and would be its own unique class like a Barbarian/Fighter would get a d12 a level, lots of feats, rage and the barbarian abilities assuming in suitable armor and the best of the respective saves and skill points. Correct? [Example only not sure what two I'll take right now.]

[SomeGuy]

Correct.

[Wintercat]

@RubySlippers: Your summary seems right in my view, yes. You take the best of the classes, and combine them. Fighter grants access to extra feats and barbarian to the rage and good HD. They have similar saves, so you'd take good save progression with all the saves they have good, and combine the list of available skills, and choose the -higher- amount of skill points per level. It seems right to me.

@PhantomPistoleer: Gestalts and Prestiges have a likelyhood of making things very confusing at some point. I am willing to consider a rule that you Start with 2 classes, as per Gestalt rules, but you can replace one of these 2 classes with Prestige Class Levels at some point onwards. The other Gestalt class must come from either one of the original 2 classes, it can alternate, but every level at least 1 of the levels must be from the original pairing. Similarily, prestige class can be abandoned and changed for another (For a 4-class total) but in that case, you still have to take one of the classes you began with for one of the Gestalt levels, and you can spend 1 for the new prestige if you wish.

I've seen powerhouses done with Gestalt so I prefer to lay down some limitation to it.

If you would prefer another style of play, you have players and you have clear cut ideas on what you want and questions answered. I think it should make it easier to find another DM in case you find I am not the DM you are looking for.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I actually prefer the rule that you proposed, Wintercat.

I would prefer to start with two classes that you can prestige one basic class into (maintaining gestalt even at prestige).  What you suggested is very sound, and to my liking, since I'm not particular to creating a very complicated character.  I disliked the original idea simply because it wasn't gestalt.

How are we to calculate HP?

[Wintercat]

I prefer to have the heroes usually blessed with a lot of will to live and power to cling to it, so I tend to usually suggest that players get the maximum hit points per level, not rolling them. Though for a grimdark setting, I wonder if I should suggest one of the two other alternatives.

Option 1)
You roll your hit points, but if your total is less than half, treat your roll as if it was on the upper half of the dice roll. In Example, a D4 health roll for a wizard comes off 1, you get 3 HP + Constitution modifier, a barbarian rolls a 5, that's 11 hit points (second biggest possible with the d12), your fighter rolls a 5, you get the total 10, your priest with d8 rolls a 7, that's a 7, the sorcerer happens to roll a 2, with the d4, that's a 4.
So, basically, you get half HP minimum, but its still upto the die.

Option 2)
You get to roll HP with 3 dice, and pick your favorite. If you roll 3 dice and get '1' on all of them, well then your character really got the short end of the stick that time.

[SomeGuy]

I was thinking of using the swiftblade PrC if no one has a problem with it.

Also, I like both options but favor 1.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I'm going to be particular to any of these options, Wintercat.

For my part, I'm heavily considering being a Ranger 5 -> Order of the Bow Initiate 1, with no idea as to what my second class will be.  Maybe Rogue, maybe Scout, maybe something else.  I also have been toying with the idea of being part of a nightsong, shadowbane or daggerspell duo.  My partner would have to put out, though. ;)

[Wintercat]

I prefer to keep materials to books I know and have, but I am willing to permit the PrC from the official WoTC site *IF* all the players agree to it. I have had games ruined because of bickering over unfair advantage, and won't follow that path again, too much Drama.

So, waiting till I've heard everyone's thoughts on that before approving it, if someone doesn't like it then I will have to ask SomeGuy to look for an alternative to that in your build.

PhantomPistoleer, I thought only the BoEF had things that require you to have someone to 'put out' for the benefits to be gained? Or are you referring to a character personality with those classes involved demanding it then?

[SomeGuy]

Pretty sure he's talking about personal interaction, not actual mechanics. If anyone has any issues with swiftblade, please say so. It really isn't something critical, or even hard to replace. I just think the class features are nifty.

[RubySlippers]

Barbarian/Fighter Half-Orc Female who is agile, uber-strong and has a decent con with an Int 8, Wis 10 and Cha 12 (14 likely around her kind) and who can use two bastard swords at once and knows how to use them! With diversify a bit elsewhere also starting with improved unarmed combat so she can beat up people in bars with pinache.

Ok not very orginal but who cannot love the big not to bright character with big sharp weapons and who can add in barbarian abilities to the fighter feats - oweiiiiii!

[PhantomPistoleer]

Pretty sure he's talking about personal interaction, not actual mechanics. If anyone has any issues with swiftblade, please say so. It really isn't something critical, or even hard to replace. I just think the class features are nifty.

I think that there are two problems with the swiftblade.  One, the GM hasn't said it's allowed.  Two, it's a gestalted class.  But it's not for me to say.

Edit:  But I don't actually have a problem with the class, per se.  I think it's neat.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Barbarian/Fighter Half-Orc Female who is agile, uber-strong and has a decent con with an Int 8, Wis 10 and Cha 12 (14 likely around her kind) and who can use two bastard swords at once and knows how to use them! With diversify a bit elsewhere also starting with improved unarmed combat so she can beat up people in bars with pinache.

Ok not very orginal but who cannot love the big not to bright character with big sharp weapons and who can add in barbarian abilities to the fighter feats - oweiiiiii!

Please don't be a half-orc barbarian.

This character concept throws a huge wrench into the group dynamics I'm interested in pursuing in-game.

[SomeGuy]

I think that there are two problems with the swiftblade.  One, the GM hasn't said it's allowed.  Two, it's a gestalted class.  But it's not for me to say.

Er, he said he wanted everyone's opinion on it before allowing it, so I'm not really sure why that's a problem? I don't really think of 6/10 caster as gestalt, rather that's Abjurant Champion (eldritch disciple/theurge, mystic theurge, etc.) as such. But that's personal opinion and a fair point.

Also, what's wrong with half-orc?

[RubySlippers]

Please don't be a half-orc barbarian.

This character concept throws a huge wrench into the group dynamics I'm interested in pursuing in-game.

Yes she is not stupid just basic in tactics and is more of a fighter who can rage when she has to like fighting the big bad boss of an adventure, or fighting barehanded in a tavern. Her wisdom is average so sticks to what worked she was trained in, is kind of social and pretty for a half-orc nice to have around and is great in a fight. That combo should be. Plus if its gritty, dirty, dark and violent sometimes brute power is a good thing. I could do a Fighter and Rogue combo if its more urban or choose to be human the fundamentals won't be much different.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Er, he said he wanted everyone's opinion on it before allowing it, so I'm not really sure why that's a problem? I don't really think of 6/10 caster as gestalt, rather that's Abjurant Champion (eldritch disciple/theurge, mystic theurge, etc.) as such. But that's personal opinion and a fair point.

Also, what's wrong with half-orc?

Re: Swiftblade.  The mystic theurge ends up with the ability to cast 7th level arcane and divine spells.  He has the worst BAB, the worst FORT, the worst REF.  Your character would be able to cast 6th level arcane spells, have full BAB, have full REF and WILL, better HD, a couple extra feats, bonuses to AC, ATK, DAM, movement, and that's only half of the stuff he ends up doing.  I mean, a mystic theurge =/= a swiftblade, but they're comparable.  In my opinion, it's not really fit for gestalting.  But even at that, I'm not opposed to you playing one, just as long as there's an understanding between us that you and I both know that the class is OP.

As for the half-orc:  generally, I really, really, really loathe playing with half-orc barbarians.  Whenever someone says "you know, I want to play a half-orc barbarian," what I immediately think is, "this person wants to play a min-maxed cliche."  My complaints against such characters are both IC and OOC.  I know it sounds kind of uppity, but I'm not really interested in a min-max game.

[SomeGuy]

Re: Swiftblade.  The mystic theurge ends up with the ability to cast 7th level arcane and divine spells.  He has the worst BAB, the worst FORT, the worst REF.  Your character would be able to cast 6th level arcane spells, have full BAB, have full REF and WILL, better HD, a couple extra feats, bonuses to AC, ATK, DAM, movement, and that's only half of the stuff he ends up doing.  I mean, a mystic theurge =/= a swiftblade, but they're comparable.  In my opinion, it's not really fit for gestalting.  But even at that, I'm not opposed to you playing one, just as long as there's an understanding between us that you and I both know that the class is OP.

If you think it's OP, then that's the kind of concern I was talking about. I'll just go straight wizard/duskblade, though admittedly I don't really see much difference (d8 HD, full BAB, 2 good saves, wide array of class features and spellcasting)

[PhantomPistoleer]

That's leagues better than swiftblade/ANYTHING gestalted, though.

But I'm excited that you're a duskblade.

[Wintercat]

Seems that matter got resolved then, but I am wondering what are you all planning to play.

I'd like some tentative ideas, the 2 classes you'd like to combine at 1st level at least. I'd like to hear those core classes of the gestalt you are building.

Just so to have an idea what kind of a party the group is going to be. Anyhow, going to be waiting curiously to see, and hopefully we'll get the game on the move eventually.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I sort of want to be a knight/paladin and I sort of want to be a ranger/scout (or rogue).  I'm also thinking about a monk/cleric.

I think I'm going to go ranger/rogue with one prestige of Order of the Bow.

[SomeGuy]

How do you feel about Unearthed Arcana? Was considering going Specialist and getting rid of my familiar, probably for Enhance Attribute. Not sure what schools I'd give up.

[Wintercat]

Unearthed Arcana is not on either list because its contents are very varied. I think parts of it are usable, others require too much changing to make the game playable anymore without reinventing the wheel. I don't recall the details of all the rules in it either, I'll have to look at it later. I think the option for trading a familiar in for something else should be possible but don't recall what you could get out of that, and might need to look there to make sure first.

As for specialist, you mean the core books specializing in one school and being less talented in a few, prohibited ones, or are you talking about something in the UA that makes a school specialist even more specialized?

[SomeGuy]

The rule I'm referring to is a specialist option, where in addition to the normal specialist stuff they can give up other class features for bonuses. Honestly, it's mostly that I just don't like familiars, however useful they may be. Gonna look around to see if there's a list of alternate class features you can get for trading in your familiar.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I know you said that we couldn't purchase anything over 7,500, but I'm curious if I could purchase a monk's belt (13,000) for my monk/fighter.

He's a submission specialist. :o

[Muse]

Oh!  Wintercat, do you have room for one more? 

I have a VERY simple gestalt concept I have wanted to play for a long time, but it's psionic.  (Soul Knife/Psion) and a not so simple but still straightforewards gestalt concept I've been wanting to play for even longer.  (Dervish type fighter/Fire Aspected Magician.)  The second one involves prestige classes, but not ones of the multiclassing variety. 

[SomeGuy]

Doh, found a thread that has some interesting options but it turns out they're all from Dragon 357. Figures.

[Wintercat]

PhantomPistoleer, the only way I can think of that happening would be the character handing out all his belonging and wealth to a Monastery where the training was going on at, and for the selflessness receiving that kind of a very powerful item.

As said, I wanted to have a warning if anyone wanted an item over the 7,500 gp price limit, on the budget that was put up. Just in case I'd have to Veto anything completely game-balance-breaking. I'll check the Monk's Belt and its stats sometime soon, and reply after that.

@Muse: I think I get the idea of what you are after. I'd say, I'd need other players to confirm they're ok with Psionic Books being added to the mixture then. That would permit "Expanded Psionics Handbook" and "Complete Psionic" if approved. I got nothing against them, just keeping in mind a single simple thing.

Anything you may have, the enemies may have as well.

I also tend to enforce a 'psionics are different' rule that SR doesn't work against Psionics, and PR doesn't work against magic. Though usually permitting those who have SR to have PR at same rate -10, and vice versa.

Anyhow, going to look back when I return.

This would also raise the current party count to -5- I believe, if everyone who has posted interest is still along.

[RubySlippers]

No biggy I'll make her a half-orc fighter/rogue just don't expect finesse she was educated to be intimidating Guild muscle and likely a bodyguard sort, likely if a door is locked her view is bash it open with pure muscle. But on the plus side she sneaks attacks anyone its going to HURT!

EDIT: Ok I got the new character she will be a good fighting scoundrel favoring the quarterstaff its legal to carry, common and in her hands pretty damned devestating as a two handed weapon and adding in certain feats. Her other feats not fighter ones will go to rogue skill enhancements. Has a Cha of 12, strong physical stats and average in Int and Wis with 10's. Overall will look the exceptional half-orc but not be bristling with combat openly favoring speed and taking her opponents off guard when she does kick butt. So not a full cliche in the bulky muscle killing machine but still fit what most orcs do which is use their strong points as in hurt people and break things. She is LN a nice professional scoundrel with a code of honor just in her case towards her Guild leaders and associates over mainstram society.

[SomeGuy]

Huh, that's a good one. Instead of a familiar you don't need a spell book. You still need to pay the gold costs for learning new spells, but operate entirely independent of a book.

Well, good isn't really the word so much as convenient, as it's an option that makes the class less powerful, but my least favorite parts of wizard are familiar and the spell book.

[abandoneddolly]

I was thinking of just going with a cleric/ fighter combination.

[Muse]

Wow, Psionics and Magic are difrent rules.  I've never used those before.  This would be fascinating. 

What do you say, people, it's in your corner. 



May I play her? 

[SomeGuy]

Psionics are honestly my favorite system, though it isn't as supported as I'd like.

[Muse]

Anyone know a good place too find a feat that grants Perform as a class skill? 

[SomeGuy]

Apprentice (Entertainer) from DMG2 gets you perform & diplomacy as class skills, +2 competence bonus to diplomacy and some ability to call in favors or something.

1st level only though.

[Muse]

Usha Xiu speaks: 

"I will answer your questions, sir.  If you find that my dance and my words come to you at once, you will learn the truest answer. 

"I am not--as you may take me--a Daughter of Man, granted exotic caramel skin and cinnamon lips by origins in distant lands.  I have been too lands where the Sons of Man resemble me more than your brawny, fair race, but my people are the Xeph.  Darkness does not blind us.  Distance does not daunt us.  Our heroes forge blades by will alone. 

"For many years I traveled with my wagons, dancing for visitors, protecting my family.  Now that my apprenticeship is done I am on my own for a time.  I wish too share experiences that my family would not have if I did not bring them back.  Dancers, lovers, cultures, vistas. 

"So you wonder why I dare travel alone, or with a small group, without weapons or armor?  Truly I say to you.  I do not wish too spread suffering, but too prevent suffering from my self and others, my will can form armor and blades hard as any steel. 

"I fight only to end suffering.  When I fight, I take suffering unto myself, and offer it too my blade.  It takes that power and adds it to it's own too end the villain's misdeeds quickly.  I was once told this was Karma.  I replied--'No, Karma is in the hands of the gods.  I do not think to guess at their will, nor to cheat karma by taking suffering onto myself when I doll it out.  This is simply how I fight." 

[Kate]

can i jump in im really fantasy hungry atm :)
np if you feel you have enough / too many as is

[PhantomPistoleer]

I dislike psionics.

--

At any rate, I'm going to be a ranger/rogue.

[Wintercat]

Kate, having you along would raise the player count to 6, and that would mean that we'd have as many characters as we can have then.

As for the Psionics matter, it seems that some like it and some dislike it so far. Hmm. Not sure what to do on the matter just yet.

[SomeGuy]

I dislike psionics.

Why's that?

[Kate]

some find psionics a culture clash (like ninjas in western culture fantasy settings)

most associate psionics with very futuristics role plays or x-men stuff,
magic with ancient / medievil fantasy era's,
technology with modern or recent future eras

btw if accepting me makes the number of players = 6 which is a lot - im happy to go a class that sort of rounds out the group pending others choices first.

What do you guys need ? You seem to be heavy with fighting stuff - you guys need a witch ?

btw

if you go to this page and see

http://www.iourn.com/dnd/feats/newfeats.htm#ignorespellfailurelight

Ignore Spell Failure (Heavy Armour) [General]

it says that pallys get this skill (permitting them to cast any spells at level 6 onwards)

For a gestault character that is a level 6 pally / sorcerer

could the sorcer spells be cast in full armour without a chance of failure

[Muse]

I'lll leave Usha like this 'til psionics is approved or not. 

Meanwhile I'll look to the approved sources for an interesting concept that fills a niche the party doesn't have.  Are we short on woodsy types? 

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Name:   Usha Xiu
Race:   Xeph
Height   5'2"
Weight   125
Bust   C

Skin   Caramel
Hair   Chocolate
Eyes   Butterscotch

Age   22




"I will answer your questions, sir.  If you find that my dance and my words come to you at once, you will learn the

truest answer. 

"I am not--as you may take me--a Daughter of Man, granted exotic caramel skin and cinnamon lips by origins in distant

lands.  I have been too lands where the Sons of Man resemble me more than your brawny, fair race, but my people are

the Xeph.  Darkness does not blind us.  Distance does not daunt us.  Our heroes forge blades by will alone. 

"For many years I traveled with my wagons, dancing for visitors, protecting my family.  Now that my apprenticeship is

done I am on my own for a time.  I wish too share experiences that my family would not have if I did not bring them

back.  Dancers, lovers, cultures, vistas. 

"So you wonder why I dare travel alone, or with a small group, without weapons or armor?  Truly I say to you.  I do not

wish too spread suffering, but too prevent suffering from my self and others, my will can form armor and blades hard

as any steel. 

"I fight only to end suffering.  When I fight, I take suffering unto myself, and offer it too my blade.  It takes that power

and adds it to it's own too end the villain's misdeeds quickly.  I was once told this was Karma.  I replied--'No, Karma is

in the hands of the gods.  I do not think to guess at their will, nor to cheat karma by taking suffering onto myself when I

doll it out.  This is simply how I fight." 

STR   10   +0
DEX   18   +4
CON   14   +2
INT   19   +4
WIS   10   +0
CHRS   16   +3

HP   (50+Con)   62

Movement   40

AC   14[20]   ([Inertial Armor +6]   Dexterity +4)

Saves: 
Fort   2   +2   =d20+4
Refl   5   +4   =d20+9
Will   5   +0   =d20+5

Base Attack   +4   Melee   +4   Finesse   +8

Soul Knife
--TAB   +9
--Damage   3d6+1
--Critical   19-20 for 4d6+2
--Range   30'
--Note:  I take 1d6 each time I hit. 

Feats: 
Aprentice: Performer   (Pay Mentor 400GP)
--Versatile Performer:   Dancing, Percusions, Singing, Strings, Weapons Display
Expanded Knowlege: Energy Missiles
Weapon Finesse
Xeph Celerity: When using Xeph Burst, make a full attack action instead of moving and gain an extra attack at your

higest attack bonus that round. 

Skills
Autohypnosis      8   +0   +2   =d20+10
Bluff         5   +3      =d20+8
Concentratoin      8   +2      =d20+10
Diplomacy      7   +3   +4   =d20+14
Gather Information      0   +3      =d20+3
Hide         1   +4      =d20+5
Jump         6   +0   +6   =d20+12
K. Geography      1   +4      =d20+5
K. Psionics      8   +4   +2   =d20+14
K. Religion      4   +4      =d20+8
Move Silently      1   +4      =d20+5
Perform: Versatile      9   +3      =d20+12
Psicraft         5   +4   +2   =d20+12
Spot         5   +0      =d20+5
Tumble         6   +4   +2   =d20+12

Resources: 14,600

PSPs   48
Powers: 
L 3
Body Purification
Empathic Transfer, Hostile
Energy Bolt
False Senory Imput


L 2
Body Equilibrium
Concusion Blast
Energy Missiles
Read Thoughts
Tongues
   
L 1
Catfall
Charm, Psionic
Grease, Psionic
Inertial Armor   
Vigor


Xephs
    * +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength
    * Medium: As Medium creatures, xephs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
    * Xeph base land speed is 30 feet.
    * Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    * +1 racial bonus on saving throws against powers, spells, and spell-like effects. Xephs have an innate resistance to

psionics and magic.
    * Naturally Psionic: Xephs gain 1 bonus power point at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to

manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.
    * Burst (Su): Three times per day, a xeph can put on a burst of speed to increase her speed by 10 feet, plus 10 feet

per four character levels beyond 1st, to a maximum increase of 30 feet at 9th character level and higher. These bursts

of speed are considered a competence bonus to the xeph’s base speed. A burst of speed lasts 3 rounds.
    * Automatic Languages: Common, Xeph. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Gnoll, Goblin, Halfling, Sylvan.
    * Favored Class: Soulknife.
    * Level Adjustment: +0
Lifespan: Middle Age 45, Old 85, Venrable 120

[RubySlippers]

I'll not be playing this, its just kind of full up as it is for my tastes.

[Wintercat]

Well in that case that leaves us with 5 players, at least unless the count has changed radically otherwise.

Unless some other DM wants to take over, I'll try and run this game sometime soon, expecting to see some ready characters for that to happen though. Presently hearing concepts but waiting to see something solid before I begin to build a start-up-post.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I've got mine all stated up, but I just have to put him into a sheet.

Well, I don't actually have the skills made...

But he's a Ranger/Order of the Bow gestalted with a rogue.

[Wintercat]

PhantomPistoleer, I have to ask, if I allowed Muse to play the Psion on this game, would you still play?

I'm presently a bit torn, I like the idea I see but at the same time I dont want to approve something that other players got some trouble with. If its a preference, ok, if its a limit, fair enough.

I'd just prefer to know at this stage at latest.

[PhantomPistoleer]

You asked my opinion, I was inclined to give it.

But I do not mind if he plays as a psionic character.  It's your decision.

[Kate]

personally i find psionics something that feels out of place in a d n d setting.

when you see merlin etc its sort of makes magic believable, but its hard to picture some character that is a telekinetic or whatever.
Such things would be automatically assumed with magic.

Muse - was there other types of classes that held your interest other than that ?

[NicciKotor]

Anymore room in this game?

[Wintercat]

There's two people who are a bit against psionics, and two people for it. The last one hasn't said anything about that yet, but I think this could be something that would make some people a bit wary then.

Muse if you would please take the non-psionic variant of your idea to use, I would be in your debt. I have hopes to run a Psionic game sometime (as I find the rules quite tempting myself) but I try and run a game with the goal of not making anyone too uncomfortable.

NicciKotor, we currently stand at 5 players total, the absolute maximum would be 6. I'd like to get this going around 21st of May, if possible. That is, if I can get all the characters together and people agree with the choices made. Altlhough at this point, I'd like a headcount who are still with us.

Now, as for the setting, I've been suggested an idea, and I've been thinking of a few of my own. I'll put it up to a vote then what you'd like to see.


Option A)
Sea of Steel and Storms

Ships made of wood and men with wills made of steel, this setting takes place at a Great Inland Sea, and prayer is offered to the Divine every now and then that those that set sail for the sea will come back alive once more. There are many threats out there, from pirates and monsters calling the shallow waters their home, to the inhabitants of the numerous small islands dotting the sea.

At the heart of this lies the town of New Haven. Full of hardy people, it rests on a large island that is mostly self-dependant but there are still goods that are necessary to import now and then, and for that reason its a common destination for many ships that set sail to the distance. Its taverns often full of sailors and mercenaries looking to relax before a new journey to the sea.

This campaign would involve a lot of moving around, but also a central town the characters would likely return to again and again over the course of the game (Depending naturally on how long it would run) for various purposes. There would be many different nations along the shores of the inland sea, and small islands that no man or woman can lay claim to unless they can hold it by the force of their own power. There would be fighting creatures trying to rise from the depths, fighting in the beaches and fighting in jungles as well as storming deep caverns and chasms, challenging the forsaken, forgotten horrors resting on some islands, and seeking the treasures left by dragons, pirates, and the crews of unfortunate ships that ran into one more fateful, magical storm.

This game could involve the ship being mainly a convienience of getting around, or it could take place aboard the ship more often. Perhaps the character(s) own it, and its fate touches those who travel in more ways than one. Way I see it, the Gestalted characters would likely be either hired mercenaries for some of these journeys, or they would simply be travellers on the move between the islands and the outer edges of the sea to set ashore and explore what lays in the new horizon. If the ship is theirs, then they have a vested interest in it, and travelling between islands and distant shores is for more than just monster hunting who knows.



Option B)
Tradegate of Trisholm

The world has become a dangerous place, and the stranger may be a threat. Little hamlets and villages quiet down when a rider passes by. There are few places that hold up the civilization's presence though. Towns dot the countryside here and there, and old ruins stand where borders of kingdoms used to lay. These days, the rule of those kingdoms is rarely felt, so weakened by the years of wear and tear that their grasp on their own lands has been lost, and rarely felt.

The worn and tired people have little hope against the monsters and bandits that terrorize the lands, and words spread of ghost towns and burnt ruins in the distance. There are whispered rumors of orc warbands and greedy bandits that prey on the unwary, there are tales of great fortresses and dungeons of these crooked people, and the vile monsters, that are robbing the last riches of the land.

The gold is becoming more rare on the surface as resources are being taken into hiding and set away into the lairs of the monsters. Amidst all this downward cycle stand a few brave people ready to do what must be done. If these monsters are stealing away riches, then robbing them in turn is only fair option.

This campaign would take place around the Town of Trisholm, seeking out monsters and destroying them, venturing to ancient places and facing things that would put the characters abilities to test. This would be a bit of "Classic DnD" mixed with other elements. Fight hard, put your life on the line, and drink merry after a triumph, build your strength more with magic items, and face another challenge in turn. There might be a trail of clues of something else further still, things would build up over time and characters might connect a few dots looking at it.



Option C)
Licensed Monster Hunters

In a world where threats are ever present, and where whole villages vanish in the course of a night never to be seen again, dark forces are at work and scare the people to the very cores as they try and stay away from the horrors that the night brings with it. There are places that people will stay away from, and the doors are closed for the night when darkness falls. People whisper silent prayers to whatever Gods they worship and silently hope that they will wake up the morning when they go to bed.

Soldiers and guards are not always the solution, armies cant catch a single beast that is smart enough to notice when a threat is too big for direct confrontation and curse them as you might some monsters know when to change their hunting ground, for a while at least. The lands are too wide for the towns to protect them all, and villages have brave young men and women to fight for them but such enthusiasm without real skill is more often lethal to the would be heroes than the monsters that prey on them.

This is the reason for the Monster Hunters. Given a document signed by the crown, they are testified to be skilled individuals who are exempt from taxes and rules that restrict carrying weapons on the streets if you are not a member of the town's guards, in exchange for their bravery against the dark forces that riddle the night. They are not paid by the crown, towns have to arrange payments themselves, or the hunters may come to take what the monsters have looted in their dungeons far and wide, hunting where the tales of successful monsters draw their eyes.

Its a business, but sometimes they get to help people. Sometimes they are revered as heroes. Other times, they are looked upon with the same suspicion as the monsters themselves. Fame and Infamy may be their part, but one thing is for certain, the bards will sing of their deeds and their Legends will spread.

Vae Victis! Woe to the Vanquished!

This is an 'Uprooted' campaign, the characters are likely to face assignments far and wide, learn of new threats creeping up, opportunities and possibilities, receive requests from townsfolk and villagers to help with things, and discover caches of lore and riches from a previous age where the kingdom was more than just a fancy title for the loose collection of city-states that nominally follow one leader's decisions, when it suits the Governor of a town or city to do so.

[Kate]

Sheva

Class: Gestalt Sorceress (6) / Favored Soul (6)
Alignment: Neutral Good

Background

Loosing her merchant parents to pirates which has given her a passion to rid the waters of slave traders and pirates alike. Luckiliy for her other people also had similar hatred towards such scum and once gold came her way her ambition found agreement.

Sheva is very much a witch but she strongly identifies with merchant sailors, which her family descended from. Believing merchants pave the way for strong societies, her dream to have exclusive ships which are enchanted, perhaps can even fly, a dream she hopes to use to destroy the stranglehold the slave trade and pirating have imposed on others lives. Trying to gather the wealth to finance such a thing is the current hurdle she faces.

Unlike most sorceresses her spells are ones that aid the group as a whole, a choice her crew and subsequent profits have benefited from many fold.

Familiar: -Droped it for Eschew materials

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Feats

Energy Resistance fire 10/m
Weapon Focus (Deity's Weapon - Shortsword)
Eschew Materials
Combat Casting
Heighten spell
Extend Spell
Leadership

Spells

Favored soul (level 6)

level 3
  Speak with Dead
  Bestow Curse
  Dispel Magic

Level 2

  Shatter
  Zone of Truth
  Hold Person
  Cure Moderate Wounds

Level 1

  Endure Elements
  Obscuring Mist
  Cure Light Wounds:
  Command
  Comprehend Languages:

level 0
  Detect Magic:
  Detect Poison
  Create Water:
  Purify Food and Drink:
  Mending:
  Read Magic

Sorcerer (level 6)

level 3

  Major Image
  Fly
  Suggestion

level 2
  Gust of Wind (When on the Moth, this will be regularly cast on the sails ensuring desired wind conditions when there is need for it)
  Knock:
  Web:
  Summon Swarm
  Fogcloud

level 1
  Magic Missile
  Grease
  Unseen Servant:
  Charm Person
  Identify M
  Alarm

level 0

  Prestidigitation:
  Dancing Lights
  Acid Splash:
  Ray of Frost:
  Message
  Arcane Mark:

Stuff

Handy Haversack* 2000gp
  *Scroll Case, loose paper, inkwell and quillset
  *Bedroll
  *Blanket, winter
  *Soap & face towel
  *100 ft Silk Rope
  *Grappling hook    
  *Flint and steel
  *Whetstone
  *Hammer/Chisel
  *20 Pitons
  *Crowbar
  *3 Oil flasks
  *Spare spell Component Pouch  (For rarer materials which the Eschew Materials feat doesn't remove the need for)
  *Rations (weeks)
  *3 x Waterskins

light Warhorse 200gp (Bit and bridle, saddle and saddlebags / feed)
chain-mail 150gp
Shortsword 10 gp (dieties fav weapon)
dagger 2 gp
Soft leather boots, gloves and belt
Concealed Spell Component Pouch (For rarer materials which the Eschew Materials feat doesn't remove the need for)
Coin pouch*

*Current Gold:1 gp

"The Moth"

The moth got its name from having a knack of escaping from the jaws of trouble with little damage or injury, being a schooner class this shouldn't be a surprise.  Sea worthy and faster than a long ship, sailing ship or gallery, the schooner is a favorite for merchants requiring quick delivery of high valued goods, the prime choice for fishermen and those charting the oceans, this ship has no rowing or large cargo options one would expect for a ship its size, but that is the price one must pay for the fastest, most maneuverable and flexible ship on the sea. Currently a lot of the cargo hold is kitted out as a stable for most of the goods they trade are needy of an armed mounted escort to see their arrival as the high service prices demanded.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Ship type: Schooner (Estimated price 7,500 gp)
Staffed by: 15-20 (The crew sleeps in hammocks which can easily placed throughout the ship depending on the weather, and do not have designated rooms)
Cargo: (50)10 Tonnes*
Total crew wage cost: 1 gp per day

  Note with full Cargo - ships is about 1/2 of what it can hold (and thus very boyant). The reason why the Moth is so is although normally Schooners   can carry 50 tonnes of cargo or 100 soldiers, the Moth has been re-fitted to only have room to carry 10 tonnes (See below).

Moths Equipment

Free area:

Room for 10 tonnes of additional cargo (excluding horses)
Room for an stable for 12 horses
Sleeping Room for 36-50 people (hammocks) and 12 horses (room enough for all to lay down)

Service-Running-Stocks

24 x Barrels of Oats (High-end Horse feed - Last 12 large horses on board 1 Month. can also be turned into porridge if needed)
12 x Barrels of Drinking water (Last all on board 1 Month)
12 x Barrels of Food (Last all on board 1 Month)
2   x Barrels of Pitch (Keeping ships hull watertight)
1   x Barrel of oil (For the ship's lanterns)
1   x Barrel of Soft Wax (waterproof's paper and creates canvas from fabrics)
1   x Barrel of Salt (Salting Fish or pickling other food products eg vegetables)
1  x  Barrel of Rum (Empty)
6  x  Small kegs of assorted oils (for pulley maintenance / prevent sea-rust etc)

Craftware and Toolsets

1 x Secondary set of full rigged sails
1 x Set of storm sails
1 x Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork (Sails/ropes/nets)
   - 500 ft in total of spare rope (Rope of varies lengths strengths - enough to create another set of rigging)
1 x Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork (Navigation)
  + 2 x wooden map kits (For moon and star charts and assorted maps. Also has extra blank map paper + its own inkwell and quillsets)
  + 2 x Hour-Glass
  + 3 x Egg timer glass (smaller than an hourglass but looks the same)
1 x Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork (Carpentry)
1 x Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork (Metalwork)
1 x Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork (Healing - mainly soaps, cleaning salves, bandages and stitching paraphernalia)
1 x Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork (Horse care / grooming)
5 x Sets of Merchant Scales (i.e. different types)
3 x Sets of Flint and steel
3 x Sets of Whetstone
3 x Grappling hooks
3 x Crowbars
6 x Assorted Knifes (general purpose)
6 x Assorted Mallets (general purpose)
5 x Fishing net, 25 sq. ft. Only two of these are in a state that could catch fish,  three of these nets have rewoven into one much stronger, suitable for retrieving floating supplies without breaking while the Moth is under sail (but impractical for fishing). Two however are left for any occasion where there is a need to complement its current foodstocks.

Additional non-standard equipment Cost: Approx 500 gp

Normally could carry 50 tonnes however a large proportion of the cargo room is been fashioned into a stable build to keep 12 horses with enough walking room longer journeys bearable. Even if full of plate covered warhorses the stables tonnage would unlikely exceed 20 tonnes. Unfortunately the area the stables holds hold only leaves a small area free.  Assuming the ship is uses also considerable own food stocks and water tanks for ballast, the remaining cargo has been kept to merely 10 tonnes. Thus even when its cargo bay is full, the ship would be less than half as heavy as what fully loaded ship of its type would be, a fact which ensures faster speeds than otherwise.

Currently holding : Spices purchased for 200 gp (taking about 1/20th of its current free cargo area)

Background.

Generally her followers are warriors that have taken to sailing to oversee all aspects of escorting highly valued goods to their destination.  As such most of the ship is decked out for catering to crew and horses of those who would deliver who or whatever would pay such a price. Leaving precious little room for actual cargo. For the past year the Moth has been trading in spices or other high value goods while looking out for the higher paid services for movement of spys, nobles or those desperate to pay high coin for exceptionally speedy escorts across the land or by sea. Those who occasionally request the moth for such preferred to pay more for passage than answer awkward questions, and as such the sailors know little of the politics they are getting involved with. Although some of those on the Moth are direct followers, others with them see joining them as an opportunity to garner wealth - and paid well for the risk. (2.5 x normal pay) Currently Sheva has ordered the ship to use whatever Profits it is making from doing so to purchase bags of holding which would enable high volume trades when the time and opportunity comes.

--- Cohort --

Lisa Runley (Sheva's Cohort)
Alignment: Neutral Good
Favored Soul - Level 4
Role : Skipper of the Moth (she on the ship most of the time but will be the one trading the ships current stock for whatever is sensible to buy in harbor to take its place. The moth isn't a merchant ship however they will use their cargo for such when its not fully used for escorting purposes).

spoiler]

Feats

  Energy Resistance fire 10/m
  Weapon Focus (Short sword)
  Eschew Materials
  Combat Casting
  Heighten spell

Known Spells

Level 2

  Gentle Repose
  Status
  Zone of Truth

Level 1

  Endure Elements
  Obscuring Mist
  Cure Light Wounds
  Command
  Comprehend Languages

level 0
  Detect Magic
  Detect Poison
  Create Water
  Purify Food and Drink
  Mending
  Read Magic

Stuff

Handy Haversack*
  *Personal Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork (Navigation)
  *Wooden Map/Scroll Case, loose paper, inkwell and quillset
  *Spyglass
  *Bedroll
  *Blanket, winter
  *Soap & face towel
  *100 ft Silk Rope
  *Grappling hook   
  *Flint and steel
  *Whetstone
  *Hammer/Chisel
  *20 Pitons
  *Crowbar
  *3 Oil flasks
  *Spare spell Component Pouch (For rarer materials which the Eschew Materials feat doesn't remove the need for)
  *Rations (weeks)
  *3 x Waterskins

Light Warhorse (Bit and bridle, saddle and saddlebags / feed)
Masterwork Scale mail
Masterwork Short sword
Masterwork Dagger
Soft leather boots, gloves and belt
Climbers Kit
Spell Component Pouch (For rarer materials which the Eschew Materials feat doesn't remove the need for)
Coin Purse (Holds Profits of the ship - whatever they may be)


[/spoiler]

5 x 1st level Followers

5 x 1st level human fighters

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Feats

(First level fighters get three feats)

Exotic weapon proffic. - Heavy Repeating Xbowl (all 5)*
*1/2 the followers also have Rapid reload + Shot on the run, the other 1/2 of them also has Farshot and point blank.

Accumulated Equipment

5 x heavy repeating xbows = 2,500 gp (200 bolts each)
5 x light Warhorse 1000gp (Bit and bridle, saddle and saddlebags / feed)
5 x Breast Plate 1000 gp
5 x daggers 10 gp
5 x short swords 50 gp
5 x Climber’s kit 400 gp
5 x Whetstone
5 x Flint and Steel
5 x 100 ft rope
5 x Grappling hook
5 x cold weather outfit
5 x bullseye lantern + oil flask       
5 x Mirror, small steel    
5 x Signal Whistel
5 x Soap
5 x Bedroll
5 x Winter blanket
5 x Shovel
5 x Scroll Case
5 x Sunrod
5 x 30 gp (each) worth of rations, water-skins and maps.

1 x Portable Ram
1 x 10 ft of chain
10 x Tindertwig
3 x Smokestick

Total = 5,150 gp

Non-Follower crew

5 x Professional Experienced Sailors
3 x Workhands / Inexperienced Sailors (which are often tasks by other crew members)
1 x Cook
1 x Seems-tress (sails/nets/ropes)
1 x Carpenter
1 x Healer
1 x Metal-Worker
1 x Logistic Expert (Course mapping, stocks and Accounts)
1 x Stables-keepers

Total = 20

Wages
   Typical Hireling, trained    3 sp per day (all but Workhands = 12)
   Typical Hireling, untrained    1 sp per day (workhands = 3)

40 sp per day for standard wages
At Pay double = 80
Pay at 2.5 times normal pay = 1 gp per day

Total crew wage cost: 1 gp per day.

[Kate]

Wintercat

for me option a can merge into others.

I am happy for my starting wealth to be tied up in the ship making passive income / trying high profit trading / services

Ideally it would be cool if other players come in as trading equals offering their services to either deck it out with magical options (so it can fly / need less crew / can self repair / whatever / or upgrade it or have several of them ) we are merchant kings (we own islands or start our own society... its flying ships creating a monopoly :)

This leaves heaps of room for us being off the ship - the ship(s) can do thir own thing a lot while we dugeon crawl etc, but I love this ideas it gives so much flexibility and heaps of options later... we can deck out a town / its ships / its soilders etc.... which develops in the background as we adventure - we return to see the progress (hopefully) that our plans set in motion - as well as cashing in loot to make us all better / bigger etc.

[PhantomPistoleer]

My vote is for either option 1 or 2, Wintercat.

[SomeGuy]

I like all of them, though I agree with Kate about option A.

Character is here, just need to pick out wizard prepared spells and I'm done. Spent a fair bit of gold (1,700) on rounding out my spell list some. Still don't have a whole lot in the way of blasting spells.

[abandoneddolly]

I like 2

I will try to get my character up sometime today or tommorow.

[Wintercat]

2 votes for A, 1 Vote for B, 1 vote for A or B, that leaves Muse and possibly Niccikotor to answer anymore.

After that, I'll just wait for the remaining characters, and try and get this game on the move.

[Muse]

*smiles*  I like the seafaring story! 

Character proposal forthcoming. 

[PhantomPistoleer]

I haven't really finalized my character.  I noticed a few things wrong with him, namely that he's got an awful SPOT/LISTEN.

Also, that he should probably wear a buckler.

But before I do anything, is there anyone here that's good at spot/listening?

[Aether]

I PMed Wintercat and I will post it here as well, i would like to be considered as an alternate for this adventure should you all lose someone  ^.^

[Wintercat]

It appears we presently have 5, 6 in case NicciKotor is interested still, but I'll keep the offer in mind Aether. The largest player total I think I can handle in one game is 6 though, at least when it involves Dungeons and Dragons.

Thanks for the interest though.

[Aether]

Not a problem.

I PMed PP and then PMed you both for the alternate spot.

The post here was simply to make sure you had seen I was interested  ^.^

[Kate]

Cool.

If it turns out we go 2 (which also seems fine !)
Could I have my character as she is ? (and I cant send the ship on its merry way ?)
That way when we come back into a town etc - if i have loot i can kit it out myself / perhaps it could birth a side plot or something ?




(btw - for those curious about how much it would take to actually make something like the moth a flying ship ... )

2 x continual Gust of wind (48000)
- Total 96,000 gp for 2 permanent gust of wind items lifting the ship from wing-sails - literally)
  (telekinisis/reverve grav was more expensive)

Assuming 4000 (ie 1/2 its hull cost) is needed to rerig the Moth for the extra sail-wings needed.. (
ie put in 2 or 4 side-ways masts and sails etc)

Total Cost 100,000 gp for making a schooner a flying ship.



Note - below not needed but interesting
- Total 38,880 gp for an item that gives indefinite food (for 12 horses and 36 people)
- Total 20,000 gp for an item that gives indefinite water(for 12 horses and 36 people)

I.E. the cost of making two constant gusts of wind to lift the ship is about 5 times the cost of having an item that can give 12 horses and 36 people all the water they would want to drink or wash with for a day.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Kate, couldn't you create the flying schooner picking up that one feat that lets you double your cash flow for the specific purposes of creating a base of operations?

[SomeGuy]

They have specific items for flying ships in Arms and Equipment.

[Wintercat]

They have specific items for flying ships in Arms and Equipment.

Arms and Equipment? Is that the book's title, or are you refering to a chapter of some other book right now, I am not quite sure, but if its not in the already approved books list, I'd like to check up on that.

Because I don't recall a book by that name and if I am not in possession of a copy, I would prefer to keep it out of the game. This being solely a risk of people quoting things from that book and I would not have a chance to check up on their findings. While I prefer to trust players, I've learned the hard way that sometimes there are mistakes, intentional or accidential, that can cause a lot of frustration or even kill games.

[SomeGuy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_and_Equipment_Guide#3rd_edition

"Cloud Keel: An invention of djinn on the Elemental
Plane of Air, the cloud keel gives its vessel the ability
to fly at a speed of 40 feet (clumsy). If the vessel is
wind-powered, it can still use its sails if they provide
faster movement than the keel itself.
Caster Level: 17th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item,
fly, wish; Market Price: 200,000 gp; Weight: 1,000 lb."

[Wintercat]

3rd Edition materials are usually not approved in games I run, for the sake of keeping things flowing in as much balance as possible. Many 3.0 books were out of balance and I prefer to not set example of how I'd already approved the use of material from them. I have sometimes relented when there's been updated 3.5 material at hand but that's about it.

[Kate]

I looked at levitation, reverse gravity and telekinesis and getting some that can be at a continual cost for a high level spell was ridiculous (millions gp).

Two items that each create a permanent gusts of wind (60ft surface area - perfect for a schooner's shaped sails which could easily cover this ) which is steady wind of considerable force (50mph)
=> 100,000, this is 1/2 the price but more demanding as these wings would need to be "sailed" - looking a wing area would be disastrous (ie not much has to go wrong for a wing or sail to have issues => Hurting a keel is a lot harder)

The cheaper but more demanding version I like for it is literally a flying ship - ( it is creating its own wings that are being sailed / used to move it up and down when less of a surface area of the sail covers it ). It has a primal grace about sailing, to me its more romantic and would have a true feel about being in a flying ship - not a floating - air-baloony one.

The flying ship would need people always using ropes etc to constantly be adjusting mail sails and wing sails, so it would be a hive of activity and feel more alive (and have more character I think).

Still 200,000 for one that is solid less risky ride (You have me thinking mothership ideas lol :) is interesting to know.
Strange it didn't say how big a ship the keel could manage... on a Galley ? or Single sail boat ?"

(Galley is worth about 30,000)

Still it could be something that could be plot driven.

Not sure if the sell a cloud keel anywhere near me nor have i heard of it, also if they do sell them ? Or how many would  there be?

"Cloud Keel: An invention of djinn on the Elemental
Plane of Air, the cloud keel gives its vessel the ability
to fly at a speed of 40 feet (clumsy). If the vessel is
wind-powered, it can still use its sails if they provide
faster movement than the keel itself.
Caster Level: 17th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item,
fly, wish; Market Price: 200,000 gp; Weight: 1,000 lb."

That means a wish is needed to cast that spell. So its unlikely there are many.
The reason its important is how many ships have these heels ? Is it likely merchants would know of 3 of them or more ?

That heel's price the same cost of having 2 gusts-of-wind flying schooners (on craft which wouldn't be as safe)


Gust of wind apparently can be made permenant ...
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm

I dont understand the rules to work out how much it would cost to have other cast it - for it gives the cost in xp for the caster.

If two of them being cast by the permancy spell is cheaper than 100 000 in total. Would be the cheapest option.

[Kate]

Actually (some one please check)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm

Using this how much would a brass orb (or whatever) be which gives off permanent gust of wind ?

[Wintercat]

Cloud Keel seems 3rd edition material, and it was not continued within the pages of the 3.5 books, I'd expect it to show in at least Magic Items Compendium. No such luck though.

As for feats to add wealth to starting up a base, I don't recall any 3.5 feats that do such. There was a feat in 3.0 for those that build a castle, but it was based on -Surrounding Farms, Sponsorship, etc- and unapplicable in this case, plus it had some very strict limits too. On that note, 3.0 book Dungeon Builder's Handbook is not in use in these games, some of the items within that were broken.

Permanent Gust of Wind might be able to blow the sails of a ship, but I doubt it would have the force to carry the tonnage. 1,500 xp to craft the permanent spell to an object it looks, plus the necessary feats and spells.. to get someone to do it for you, I think you'd have to find someone in game to do that, I'd rather you didn't start-off with a flying ship right from the beginning. Not saying I'd outright disallow it, but we'll see.

[Muse]

Name:      Sachi Brandai
Race:      Human
Class:      Gold Dragon Shaman 6/Sorcererss 6
Height:      5’10”
Weight:   161lbs
Bust:      C
Hair:      Scarlet
Eyes:      Blue/Green



Strength   14   +2
Dexterity   16   +3
Constitution   16   +3
Intelligence   14   +2
Wisdom   10   +0
Charisma   18   +4

HP      72

Armor Class   19   (Mage Armor: Greater: +6   Dexterity +3)

Saving Throws
Fort   5   +3   +1=+9
Refl   2   +3   +1=+6
Will   5   +0   +1=+6

Base Attack   +4   Melee +6   Missile +7

+1 Falchion
--TAB      +7
--Damage   2d4+4+3 Force
--Critical   18X2

Composite Short Bow (From Survival Pouch)
--TAB      +7
--Damage   d6+1+3 Force
--Critical   20X3
--Range   80’?

Feats: 
Martial Weapon Proficiency: Falchion
Improved Familiar
Power Attack
Reserve Feat: Blades of Force


Climb         7 +2      =d20+9
Concentration      8 +3      =d20+11
Heal         8 +0 +3 +2   =d20+13
Knowledge: Arcana   7 +2      =d20 +9
Profession: Sailor   7 +0      =d20 +7
Swim         8 +2      =d20+10

Draconic Adaptation (SU):  Water Breathing at Will
Draconic Presence (EX?): Immune to Paralysis, Sleep, and the Frightful Pressence of Dragons. 
Breath Weapon: 3d6 Fire damage in a 15’ cone.  Reflex save DC 16 for half. 
Touch of Vitality: Heal Wounds 48/Day

Spells: 
L 3
Mage Armor, Greater

L 2
False Life
Wraith Strike

L 1
Critical Strike
Expeditious Retreat, Swift
Jump
Magic Missile


15,000   
2,350   +1 Falchion
4,100   Armbands of Might
   500   Boots of Landing (Always land on your feet and negate the first 20 feet of falling damage.) 
3,300   Survival Pouch
2.500   Robe of Resistance +1 and Endure Elements
2,000   Field Ration Box

5   Spell Component Pouch
1   Flint and Steel
50   Healer’s Kit

GP   94

Familiar (Augmented 6 Hit Dice Small Air Elemental) 
Name:   Kai
Attributes: 
Strength   10   Dexterity   17   Constitution   10
Intelligence   8   Wisdom   11   Charisma   11

Hit Points:   36

Initiative   +7
Speed (flying)   100’ (Perfect)

AC   20   (+1 Size, +3 Dexterity      +6 Natural)

Saving Throws:  Fort   2+0=d20+2   Refl 3+3=d20+6   Will 2+0=d20+2
--Improved Evasion

Base Attack   +4   Grapple   +0
Attacks: 
Slam      d20+8
Damage   d4
Critical      20X2

Special Attacks:
--Air Mastery
--Whirlwind

Feats: 
Flyby Attack
Improved Initiative
Weapon Finesse

[Muse]

I had Sachi grab a field Rations box to minimize the cost of feeding the crew and free up some hold space for goods.  If someone else grabs a few replenishing sources of fresh water, we might be able to do with fewer water barrels as well. 

Phant, unfortunatly neither of my classes are good at spot/listen.  (Go figure.)  Nor do either provide me with many extra skill points to work with. 

I can contribute to medical assistance and work as a diver, though. 

[Wintercat]

Looking good, looking good. We ought to be ready to start soon. We have Muse, PhantomPistoleer and Kate ready for certain, waiting for the others.

We got the bare minimum of players to run at least, I'll wait and see if we get others soon. SomeGuy, abandoneddolly, NicciKotor. If one of them drops out, we got Aether awaiting. Sending a message to ask if NicciKotor wants to play then or no. Haven't seen more than 1 message from her, others I think have been keeping up well.

[Kate]

Muse,

I don't we have a decision of which option we are running with, we have to wait for the others to make a decision

btw winter i think your right on the gusts of wind idea not working.
So its that cloud keel thing ... 200, 000 gp (without other magical trimmings - just having it flying alone)

fk.

You could buy over 6 galleys for that.

6.

That's heaps of gold, we are ages away - i don't think my plan is going to a short term thing :(

[Kate]

Here however is inspiration to feel the dream.

Learning to fly - Pink Floyd (High Quality)

Fly with me :)

[Aether]

So its that cloud keel thing ... 200, 000 gp (without other magical trimmings - just having it flying alone)

Wintercat just said that that was a third ed item not continued in any of the 3.5 books, Kate, sorry to point out.

The wonderful thing about D&D is that you are only limited by your imagination.  Just create a way to make the ship flight capable using your creativity.  I just had a thought, you could fashion some great set of actual wings for your ship, flapping to get airborne, possibly some form of magic to keep it aloft for some amount of time before you have to recharge or some such.

That may make it more accessible and believable.

[Kate]

Love the idea of its flying thing being "charged" by lightning.

So it actively seeks electrical stops - with the intention of being struck... which keeps it going for a few weeks or something.

[Aether]

That could be your battery to keep it running, some great crystal with a spell on it to retain the electricity.

Maybe a gifted group of gnomes could build some wings or use some other flight principle for the ship.

[Aether]

With your permission, Wintercat, I would like to start working on my character so i can have it ready to go ^.^

Here is what I was thinking:

Monk/Sorceress

Monk/Rogue

What do we need atm?

[Wintercat]

Creative approach, especially one pulled in game, is likely to be more successful indeed, and probably even 'cheaper' than buying a method. I have nothing against the earlier ideas, I merely pointed out that the book that the Cloud Keel is from is a 3rd edition book, and its continuation "Magic Item Compendium" which is its 3.5 variant, no longer contains that particular material. I don't really enjoy crushing ideas but using 3.0 material on something can draw people to complain that they want to use their favorite 3.0 thing too, eventually leading to some rather awkward situations.

I still recall a game with a fatespinner that TPK'd the whole party in 4 rounds and walked away with all the treasure, pointing out rules in conflict between 3.0 and 3.5. At least until (DM event) a mighty dragon that had observed the group brought its members to life setting them out on a quest of its own, threatening to 'dismiss' the Resurrection otherwise. The rules-lawyering on that argued the spell cant be dismissed, which the dragon only grinned about.

On a side note, the traitorous Fatespinner couldn't pull his trick on the same day again, so the party found him and gave him what was coming for him.

Ahh, fun times... but still, it was a lesson to not mix 3.0 and 3.5 editions.

Now, about the ship being made somehow flight-capable in the game, I'll be curious to see what you may come up. Getting a dragon to carry the whole ship on its back would be an adventure unto itself (Final Fantasy reference, a cookie to anyone who knows which of the games I'm talking about) but some more accessible methods should be around.

Hmm, we got a bit of arcane power flowing in this group already, but Monk is going to be good in a fight regardless already. Its upto your tastes, the team has more magic than sneaking within it at the moment, but either idea is solid.

I'll wait a bit to see if we get a post from our missing NicciKotor, or no, but if she isn't available anymore then we'll have Aether around.

[SomeGuy]

Looking good, looking good. We ought to be ready to start soon. We have Muse, PhantomPistoleer and Kate ready for certain, waiting for the others.

Eh? What am I missing? I don't have HP, but I wasn't aware we had settled on a method for generating HP.

[Creshnagarine]

Hello All,

If your grouping could use a fighter tank character, I would be willing to play such a character.


Your Friend,

Creshnagarine

[Wintercat]

Ahh, Right, that never got all the votes either. Hmm, I would like to actually put the 'Upper Half' rolls, so you can at worst get a bit over half the HP for that level. For mages, that is automatic 3 out of 4. For Barbarians, 7/12.

Anyway, any other questions left? And SomeGuy, sorry I was looking back at who had handed over sheets and who had not and seem to have posted the list short of your own there, my mistake on that part.

Still waiting to hear from 2 people though.

Also, it appears the game will follow the Story A, so a lot of islands are ahead.

@Creshnagarine
We got a limit of 6 players, currently we have 7 applicants, you'd be the 8th. In case 2 players quit suddenly, I'll give you a word but other than that I am a fraid I am going to have to tell you the game is already full.

[Aether]

Starting moneys?

How are we rolling stats?

I will go with a LN Monk/Rogue and try going for something different, possibly a trap and ranged expert.  Also, I really wanted to get some levels of Drunken Master if you are okay with that, Wintercat.  I really want stagger  ^.^

[Wintercat]

Level: 6
Gestalt Rule: Players can combine 2 classes as per Gestalt rules, at level 1. The further levels must always contain at least -1- class from the original pairing, but alternate class or multiclass can replace the other class's position in the gestalt. The maximum number of different classes for 1 character is 4, to prevent utter chaos.
Ability Scores: All abilities start at 10, and you can divide 28 points among them. 11 through 16 costs 1 point per increase, the final 2 ability increases cost 2 ability points per increase. So, Ability score of 16 costs 6 points, and 18 costs 10 points. Racial ability modifiers follow after, and you get +1 Ability Point for Level 4 ability increase.
Starting Wealth: All characters possess a total wealth of 15,000 gold pieces. This is 2,000 gold pieces more than standard adventurer for the level would have, but I believe it should go along with their more-than-average abilities to have also acquired a little more rewards. No single item can cost more than 7,500 gold pieces however, or you have to check it with me first and have some very convincing reason how you have come across something that costly.
Experience: All players begin at 15,000 xp, and need 21,000 xp for their next level up.
Crafting Magic Items: Negotiable, but character will acquire 'XP debt' they have to pay before they will begin acquiring experience, lagging them behind others. I wont drop their level for this, but will lay down this penalty. Likewise, the 'XP debt' has a maximum of 1,000 experience spent on crafting some items.

[Aether]

I can not tell if this class, the Dragon Blood Sorcerer, is a home brew or is an official prestige class.

Wintercat.

Would you let me go 6 Monk :: 5 Sorceress / 1 Gold Dragon Blood Sorceress?

[PhantomPistoleer]

Aether, the GM already listed what was available in terms of sources from materials.  Why don't you pick a prestige class out of them?

[Aether]

Thats what I was asking, actually, I did not know if 3.5 wiki was source material or not.

If I read your reply correctly, I think I should be good with going 5 Monk / 1 Drunken Master :: 6 Sorcereress.

Am I good now?

[Aether]

OR...

I could go for a monk/rogue that specializes in traps and ranged combat, as posted previously, no PRCs.

[Muse]

---OK---
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Dragon Magic
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Magic Item Compendium
Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook II
Spell Compendium

[NicciKotor]

Apparantly I got into this game, so whee. What sort of missing classes are we missing in this gestalt epic mess?

[NicciKotor]

Screw party balance, it is about time to make a kittygirl priestess/druidess! The only problem is a lack of a LA+0 catgirl race out there. There is catfolk, but that is +1 LA and meh to that.

[Wintercat]

Well if she's willing to help out with the healing then that would cover that problem quite well, and the druid aspect would add to her power in a fight I imagine. Looking forward to seeing what you will come up with then, and yes your applying to join along was noticed.

[NicciKotor]

I could use a custom race for this, since I don't want to use catfolk for this build. Since it is going to be wisdom based and not charisma. Also going to be using the shapechanger build from PHBII, since it is far superior to vanilla wildshape.

This build is funny, since there isn't any reason to get any magical armor or weapons. Cannot use either in shapechanged form, so that leaves a nice big hole for me to get weird magical items. Like the rod of viscid globs.

[Zaer Darkwail]

As note Nicci you could pick Shifter race and pick the one which gets white eyes and wisdom bonus while shifting. Shifters can be quite feline alike. Another variant is to drop something from catfolk to make them +0 race. Or LA affects only one side of gestalt.

Example;
female catfolk Cleric 5+LA|Druid 6

[Aether]

Since info was just given to me, I will go for what I really want to focus on, that is a Monk/Sorceress at level six apiece, plain jane human.  Capitalize on touch attacks.

***EDIT  Monk 6 / Sorceress 5, Dragon Disciple 1.  That was the printed PRC I was looking for***

[NicciKotor]

Let's see what the DM has to say about this. Since the DM has the power to just make up new races and rules. It is a important trait that beginning DMs need to learn.

That and I am going with Horo as a picture/personality. Since nothing is more adorable and haughty then Horo!

Spice and Wolf II Special 2 English Sub

[PhantomPistoleer]

Let's see what the DM has to say about this. Since the DM has the power to just make up new races and rules. It is a important trait that beginning DMs need to learn.

Nikki, the GM turned down people from choosing classes in books that weren't in his OK pile.  Why should he allow you to make your own race?  And why do you have to assume that he's a beginning DM?  And why do you feel its necessary for him to make a new race specifically for you, when he already put down the list of resources available?

This is becoming absurd.

[NicciKotor]

I like to throw ideas out there and see what happens. If he is that strict, then that is okay, I can still go catfolk and go cleric 5/druid 6.

[Wintercat]

I have GMed a fair share of games actually, but most of them with a group of friends in reality. I've ran some on forums before, but mostly Solo games. I have tried my hand with some forum games with groups, and it seems to be possible, and fun, with the right group. Disappearances that eat people are not so fun but happen, sadly enough.

Now, as for the race. I like what you have going on there with the Horo, but as pointed out by PhantomPistoleer I prefer to keep this to a limited set of materials if possible to avoid being overwhelmed by it.

I'd appreciate it if you were willing to play a more standard race found in the booklist that was OK'd with the group of players before. I got nothing personal against exotic races, but one of the ideas was to limit down some books and such so that players are on the same start-line, not having to complain about unfair advantage I'd granted someone.

I think it might be possible to have a character who is stat-wise, human, elven, whatever race you pick, but during the Druid Training got messed up with transformations, resulting in a -partial- return to human/elf/well, base race form and partial traits remaining, like the exotic ears or tail.

No in game penalties or bonuses, even if the senses were sharper they would be so 'new' still that the character wouldn't be able to make any special use of them still. Flavor addition with a good story reasoning? That I think I can live with (and it doesn't give unfair advantages to anyone) but I figure that its not exactly what you got in mind, still.

Anyhow, just tossed it up for a thought anyway.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I'm glad you responded before I did, Wintercat.  I'm not the voice of levity.

[NicciKotor]

I can do a transformation into a wolfgirl sort of situation. Just keep the elf stats the same and all? Makes sense. I already got my backstory.

That I settled down in a farming community and using my powers that I obtained by the transformation, I gained druidess abilities on top of my clerical. So I spent a few centuries in this farm land, using my spells and abilities to enrich the land and live on it. Basically turning into a hermit in the woods. This pretty much made me into some sort of folk lore wolf goddess of the land, since this section of the land has always seen vibrant and fertile crops.

Eventually the sense of wanderlust came about, so I decided to trek out back into the world and see how it has changed. Spending a few centuries in the woods by myself has made it quite difficult to see eye to eye with civilized folk, so there is plenty of opportunity there for some naughty fun.

[NicciKotor]

Ah ok, I see the list of OKAY books and Races of the Wild is not one of them. Fair enough. I'm also going animal and plant domains, so that campaign option where we are traveling a lot and killing monsters is good for me. Traveling from place to place only means more chances to scare peasants with Plant Growth and enrich their crops for the season.

[Wintercat]

I think I have the Races of the Wild book, its not on the OK but I don't think its on the NO list either. Didn't consider putting it on either so far.

I'm willing to put it up for a vote if others are fine with using it, though that book's presence comes up pretty late in game (then again we had a question about whether or not to allow psionics too before) but I think the question could be asked at least.

[NicciKotor]

Rawrs:

Horo, the level 6 priestess/druidess of Obad-Hai:

http://plothook.net/RPG/profiler/view.php?id=8555

Body of the sun + Shapeshift = hilarious. Having a powered wolf charging at you, that is also on fire!

[Zaer Darkwail]

Hehe, indeed :). Blazing wolf charge!

Anycase I assume the group is pretty much filled up?

[Muse]

Zaer, if I'm not mistaken, if you got in line you'd be number 2 on the waiting list. 

[Zaer Darkwail]

Ahaa, ok. I will go waiting list then :).

[NicciKotor]

Make sure you make a sexy guy! Sexy guys!

Also, more Horo!

[SomeGuy]

Well, I am planning on taking polymorph.... does the Master Transmogrifist (is that spelled right) picture count?  O:)

[NicciKotor]

You don't have the caster level for polymorph. So try harder already, geez!

Also more Horo...

[SomeGuy]

That's why I said "I am planning on" instead of "I have"

[SomeGuy]

Trust me though, that wasn't really the point.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Make sure you make a sexy guy! Sexy guys!

Hehe, sure. What you would consider sexy then? Beauty is after all in beholder's eye.

[NicciKotor]

Hehe, sure. What you would consider sexy then? Beauty is after all in beholder's eye.

I am not a melee fighter. I didn't bother to get a weapon or armor, and I only got 12 con. So I need a nice elf fighter something something to meat shield.

[Wintercat]

It is certainly lively here. Looking forward to starting sometime soon, it looks like we are upto 5 ready characters now, the last one I am waiting for is from the abandoneddolly, and if she isn't available, we now got Aether on the waiting list, and Zaer.

Reading previous posts, we had RubySlippers along for the ride but she dropped out. Lots of turnover in the game.

[NicciKotor]

It is certainly lively here. Looking forward to starting sometime soon, it looks like we are upto 5 ready characters now, the last one I am waiting for is from the abandoneddolly, and if she isn't available, we now got Aether on the waiting list, and Zaer.

Reading previous posts, we had RubySlippers along for the ride but she dropped out. Lots of turnover in the game.

That happens all the time. The important thing is we need more meat shields and people to do a slow motion midair lunge to protect Horo the Wise Wolf.

Also more pictures:

[Zaer Darkwail]

Hmmm, tank you say. Well I have concept for classic knight, prefering for half-elf because it does not get Con penalty and get all elf good looks ;).

Basically Knight 6|Figther 2/Paladin 4

(paladin got nice immunities and party friendly abilities and Cha mod to all saves nice as I do need Cha for knight side, just two levels of figther get all nice feats for tanking)

[NicciKotor]

Hmmm, tank you say. Well I have concept for classic knight, prefering for half-elf because it does not get Con penalty and get all elf good looks ;).

Basically Knight 6|Figther 2/Paladin 4

(paladin got nice immunities and party friendly abilities and Cha mod to all saves nice as I do need Cha for knight side, just two levels of figther get all nice feats for tanking)

I'm CG, and pallies would be a turn off. Law abiding citizens of petty human cultures is not at all sexy!

[Zaer Darkwail]

I'm CG, and pallies would be a turn off. Law abiding citizens of petty human cultures is not at all sexy!

Hmmm, how shield using singin barbarian then? Barbarian 6/Bard 6.

Anyways if I do play the knight he is not lawful stupid (well, expect he plays too fair in combat). After all the law applies how it's implemented by the person. So this case his lawful behavior is always keep his word, be honest (only lie if it's meant for good and even then a white lie) and not do criminal activity (altough breaking in enemy stornghold quietly sounds criminal but it's all for good cause).

I am not a paladin who asks; 'Can I do diplomacy check vs these mindless skeletons who are poking those poor goblins we killed hour ago?'

[Kate]

"Law abiding citizens of petty human cultures is not at all sexy!"

- Unless you like pirate-pirates ... those who steal from pirates, but to give back to whatever kingdom the stolen goods were taken from.

Good thing is if the hopefully grateful people don't feel inclined to pay you for the favor, its likely goodwill could be used for trade
contacts for you would have shown yourself to be trusted worthy with high valued treasures.

Next time they are in trouble ?
Who are they gonna call ?
Your friendly neighbourhood pirate sharks of course

stealing their treasure that they stole from others - wherever they have hidden it :), or to where what they want us to beleive it is anyway.

But its worth taking the risk, for if one thinks of it for a while they will realize that
ships are used to move the best of things nations have,
making a pirate's treasure hold
... a treasury,
of other ships,
other nations,
treasures.

literally.

We beat up the bullies
have a nose through what they have,
and if we like what we see ? .. then we have a lot of options  :)

If that isn't ethically, financially, romantically, adventurously, poetically a fun thing to try ... what would be ?

Arrrrr !

[Kate]

Rope Trick
Transmutation
Level:    Sor/Wiz 2
Components:    V, S, M
Casting Time:    1 standard action
Range:    Touch
Target:    One touched piece of rope from 5 ft. to 30 ft. long
Duration:    1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw:    None
Spell Resistance:    No

When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (“planes”). Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). Creatures in the space can pull the rope up into the space, making the rope “disappear.” In that case, the rope counts as one of the eight creatures that can fit in the space. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot by 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space.

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.
Material Component

Powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment.

That's 8 tonnes !

For the spell to be permanent:

  3rd level caster x 2nd level spell x 2000 = 12 000 gp.

  cost of material x 50 normal cost (need to as a spell component)

   typically silk rope = 10 gp for 60 ft - price wise
   assume using same amount of silk but pleated to into 6 feet or so of much
   stronger rope   (10 times as strong as used as normal silk rope)
   => 500 gp for the rope
   12 000 gp for it to be enchanted permetantly.

   12 500 gp to lift 8 tons

[Wintercat]

You might fix something to hang from the sky with that set of spells. The question is, will that truely benefit you? The ship would be affixed to a certain place in the air by those ropes, I don't think the 'anchor points' are made movable, at least I don't see that in the description. I might be wrong but it does make me wonder a little. Creative idea I wont argue that, just curious to hear others comments.

Anyway, it might be useful in some cases but I don't think its the key to having a ship flying around.

[NicciKotor]

So we are going with the boat and island hoping campaign setting? I was hoping for the monster hunter route. Oh well, it just means I need to change around my domains and spell selection.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Yay for ocean going!  I hope my survival and profession (seamanship) will come into use.

[NicciKotor]

Horo the Wise Wolf going out to sea. With Fharlanghn as a god and travel and weather as domains. Muwhahaha, I get to fly AND cast call lightning. That will help wonders with the tedium and stark boredom of being stuck on a boat with smelly humans.

[Wintercat]

"Oi, I just bathed last month." One of the sailors muttered in a grumbling tone, scratching the armpit of his once-white shirt, the earthly brown and black stains along it having made it hard to tell what it once was, but as he walked away with the worn old boots the elvish man leaning to the mast nearby chuckled. "Don't mind him, he's just pissed because last time at the shore he ran into some real trouble. The lass he tried to woo told him of this wonderful invention, soap, and then her boyfriend slugged him in the jaw."



Anyhow, little jokes aside, it looks like people are getting ready at a good pace. I'm waiting for 1 person anymore it seems, and we got 2 ready to take her place if she drops out.

[Kate]

You might fix something to hang from the sky with that set of spells. The question is, will that truely benefit you? The ship would be affixed to a certain place in the air by those ropes, I don't think the 'anchor points' are made movable, at least I don't see that in the description. I might be wrong but it does make me wonder a little. Creative idea I wont argue that, just curious to hear others comments.

Anyway, it might be useful in some cases but I don't think its the key to having a ship flying around.

It is implied as there is only mention of the rope is lifted veritcally, thus if the bottom moved the point about it verically would move. I also think because the spell was cast on the rope ... not enchanting an area to attract ropes, or an area to attract a specific rope. It is cast on the rope.

But there are additional complications .. the strange part about extradimentional beings to me is a little silly - would love the idea of the gm dropping that a portal you can create as a low level mage which opens into a dimention of creatures hungry to pull ropes... but only ropes ? ... really. Treating it as a "rope trick" from an effect point I think could work... but it does have addtional issues that doesnt solve the problem on their own.

For a ship to be viable it has to be able to vary how much these things as a whole effect the ship, and be able to turn them off and on at will.

So its more likely there has to be a cerntal point or plague or something that can enable you to command these ropes to dance for the ship or not... and they can't be simply attacked to the deck - but more likely linked to other ropes and each other indirectly in a system of pulley's which would be like a "loom" in a deck below - that mainly balance loads when different ones are being turned on or off at will.

So even if the storyteller was ok with it you would need  6-8 of them... all linked with a elaborate pulley and rope system
that takes up the better part of some level on the ship.

So probably 20 000 gp or more on that network of under-deck ropework, perhaps the same for a plaque that can turn individual ones off and on easily.

So realistically (assuming my rope trick view is acceptable).

12500 gp x however many sets of 8 tonnes you want to lift
? gp for a plaque to control them
? for silk-rope linked-loom for distribution their individual tensions.
? For re-rigging or creating a new ship that uses this strange under-deck rigging methodology.

This doesn't help with forward locomotion though, but i thought would be one way to have literal flight feasible.

[NicciKotor]

If you want to give us a kick ass boat, just go to Stormwrack. In there is a magic paddlewheel boat that only requires one person to operate.

[Kate]

I don't want us to have kick ass boat.

I want us to have a kick ass flying-ship :)

We don't even have to be on it - its just an option we have, that frees us to do stuff or exploit otherwise unreachable areas.

Some weird mine at the top of a mountain ?
Or anything cool beyond those insanely dangerous waters ?

We could be the first there.

Or the first to have been there in a very ... very ... very ... very long time.

The idea wasn't "how cool it would be to role play being on it" more

"How could would it be to role play in the places this could could get to?"

What is within a days journey or two is a LOT more options,
resettling a group of (hopefully grateful) mis-placed people
or a lot of supplies quickly is feasible.

If the "rope trick- lift" idea is deemed ok, the ship would groan a lot and lurch in similar ways it does with waves at sea.
For waves at sea would come from about the same angles, lift an area suddenly or the opposite, and ships hulls are designed to deal with that.

We just would be making one that that can happen on the inside of the hull as well.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Also note Explorer's Guide (from Eberron setting) sourcebook list price for air or fire elemental powered airship. It is 100,000gp and has storage space and room for small crew (around 12 crew members + passengers). Ofc it has ruling you need control the elemental with charisma and either have rebuke elementals ability or bear dragonmark but those reguirements could be waved off.

[Kate]

thank for the thought but the idea of trapping something to help doesn't feel right.
It doesn't feel free.

I contemplated having a permanent summon vermin spell active within a hollow deck, and something below it that casts
"Repell vermin" below it.

Then I thought ... omg ... thats wrong ! ... i just think using ropes / wind keeps the romantic feel of a ship,
and the romance of being in the clouds.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Why not permament levitate spell on normal ship and let sails control movement forward and to sides like in sea? Only add lead weigths (or sand sacks) to add weight so the ship does not constantly float upward and drop sand sacks if you want more height. If want go down then lower anchor and just pull ship down closer to the ground.

[Kate]

Reverse gravity, Levitation, telekinesis, floating disk are much much more expensive than this option.

[Zaer Darkwail]

True, but the ship would not much move. As when you cast the spell on rope the 'dimensional' hole what it creates is on fixed location (it cannot move, even if tarrasque tries pull the rope and even then likely rope just snaps broken). Your simply anchoring the rope to other dimension where you can climb and take refuge. At least how I understand how the spell works but you can try prove me wrong ;). Anycase the bottom of the rope can be moved and pulled but the rope is still anchored to one location. As you can pull the rope in to the other dimension to prevent uninvited guests. But if you want find way how control ropes, animate rope spell on rope trick ropes could work.

[NicciKotor]

If we are going flying ship, then we need to go classic final fantasy. Classic as in before FFVII and everything became emo and shitty. Where airships where made out of wood and were moved by a lot of propellers!

[Kate]

When I read it to me it implies the ropes upward motion doesnt act like an anchor point.

If I cast it say on my horse to a rope strapped to its saddle ... because its a rope trick i would expect it to stay upwards vertical
while the horse is moving. It it didn't then as the horse could gallop away it would be come more horizontal (ie you could make a fence with it).

It is implied as there is only mention of the rope is lifted vertically, thus if the bottom moved the point about it vertically would move.

I also think because the spell was cast on the rope my take feels more right,
for one is not enchanting an area in the sky to to attract ropes, or an area in the air to attract a specific rope.

It is cast on the rope. (which has a vertical point that is directly below what its braced to.... ie the upward pull would move with the base... ie the rope trick on the horse would stay vertical ( can't create fences with it )

Also it says "A weight greater than that can pull the rope free." ... not

"A tension greater than x pounds is to be applied to tug the rope from the created ankor point"

[Zaer Darkwail]

Altough it says vertically it does not mean you can move it from that vertical point. Altough it does not say directly you cannot move it, it also does not mean you can move it. The wording of the spell is just lacking and leaving it up to imagination and GM decision does the rope let move the hole in any position. If you what speak is true, then why would not mages use that spell and make rope invisible and let some invisibile animal to pull it so they can fly invisible to enemy fort? Not to mention become stealth bombard plane basically with that tactic (if animal is strong and able to fly).

So far as I have met and talked about methods get cheap airship, none have considered this one because most all assume rope trick is stuck on fixed location. If it would not be, the spell would become quite a lot broken so many ways beyond concerns of making cheap airship.

At least my opinion about the matter.

[Kate]

hmm.

Well i guess we can leave it as the storytellers decision.

btw Z what do you mean

If it would not be, the spell would become quite a lot broken so many ways beyond concerns of making cheap airship.

[Zaer Darkwail]

'Broken' I mean several ways exploit said spell. You can use it as fishing net to capture enemies and throw in bag of holding for some dimensional warping fun example. Or simply snare foe in and then dismiss rope trick spell early (by just using spring attacking class). You can kidnap people in and carry them off without save. Also edges of any dimensional portals are extremely sharp (my own GM ruling mostly but mention it anyway). So with such sharp edges you can slice and dice foe who gets partially inside the rope trick space by just quickly flipping it around.

All above tricks; ask no saves nor SR. A common trait shared with broken spells.

[Kate]

the storyteller would permit a reflex save.

Personally a lot of this is the call of the storyteller.

The idea of things being "trapped in the extra dimensional stuff" just doesn't feel right. For creating a "portal to another dimension" level two spell ?

I do agree how how the spell "rope trick" works in the storytellers world is vital.

Even if it was permitted, with all the extra pulleys and stuff - still looking at 200 000 gp to be feasible.

... no wonder sky-ships are rare - if they do exist at all.

If a flying ship is something that interests others - cool, how that is done I am open on.

I am also open on role playing without it being feasibile / ie if we choose another option other than option a :)

[NicciKotor]

More importantly, we are forgetting something important:

Blimps!

[Kate]

blimps are cool.

Not as fast - but still VERY cool :)

[Zaer Darkwail]

blimps are cool.

Not as fast - but still VERY cool :)

I disagree.



Do not tell I did not warn you about those flame spells and flamign arrows or bringin flammable alcohol on the blimp. Or bring that cute demonic fire elemental kitty.

[Aether]

I am still working out the character with help, thanks guys  ^.^

But Paladin is a full 6 levels of one side of my gestalt character and will be receiving a steed.  I was kind of thinking something like this.
I would like to make it unique, create some custom for befriending one , etc..

[Zaer Darkwail]

In Dragon magic or race sof dragon there was 'dragonsteed' class feature which takes off your normal horsie and places instead a winged draconic 'horse alike' creature with celestial template. It's flying scaled draconic creature so it's quite close what you want.

[PhantomPistoleer]

You need a feat called improved mount or something to have a steed like that.

[Aether]

I have how many to play with?

Human, first level feat and one more?

What do I need to take that feat?

[PhantomPistoleer]

Dragon Steed:  Ride 8 Ranks
Charisma 13
Speak Language: Draconic

Allows you to summon a dragonnel as your mount.

You get 2 at first, 1 at third and 1 at sixth.

[Aether]

A Large young adult?  174 carrying weight max.

[Kate]

could certainly come in handy if you were permitted it

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, so far as I could tell the Dragon magic (not Draconium nor races of dragon) had paladin variant which ONLY asked able speak draconic and 2-4 ranks in K:Arcana. The steed summoned is able to fly and is overall just bit tougher/stronger horse which is able to fly and perform 'trampling spring attack' as special ability (probably stomp foes and fly off and repeat attack until foe does not move is normal response from pack from these things). It was large animal and moved four legs so it has lots more weight allowance. No breath weapon tough.

[Kate]

that is still ridiculously cool :)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Aye, it is :).

[Kate]

can we make some sort of avery for their kind - get a few breeding couples and sell their eggs

Or perhaps raise a new type of "standard mounts" for a mountain village... means they don't need roads and could easily relocate a previous site that wasn't too established.

[Aether]

I was considering a back story to include this type of mount as a symbiotic companion for my tribe of people that are in touch enough with all that it requires to build my character.  If that were the case, their eggs, as it were, could be highly guarded.  This tribe would 'prolly kill any that threatened their dragonnels.  If some one wanted to find a mount of these creatures, I am sure there are more available somewhere, but not this brood.

[Wintercat]

Today has passed incredibly busy for me, so I have not been able to prepare too much today. I believe we are waiting for 1 player, and we got 2 people ready to replace her in case she is unable to play alongside the others.

I hope to see the matter resolved sometime soon so we can see what lays ahead after that, but going to be waiting a little longer for abandoneddolly to post here too.

[NicciKotor]

Faster man faster!

Also on the subject of blimps. Are we going to get one or not?

[PhantomPistoleer]

Wintercat, we should start soon!  Seeing the crazy builds people are making makes me want to make a crazy build, too.

Like a Factotum-Chameleon/Binder.  (NM that the Tome of Magic, Races of Destiny and Dungeonscape aren't part of canon!)

[Kate]

Then we can find some group of flying creatures that are persecuted where they are
or having a hard time and give them a cooler option - if we find a cooler option first.

blimps ? we dont know
flying ships - unknown
flying mounts - unknown.

Personally although i adore blimps they feel futuristic to me, so i would prefer a ship personally.

or we can dungeon crawl it doesnt matter,
whatever it is lets start - if we change our minds we can role play doing so and do it IC.

[Aether]

2 Monk / 4 Sorceress  |  6 Paladin working towards Enlightened Fist.

Bracers of Armor, do they stack with natural armor or protection?

And finding some persecuted dragonnels sounds like fun to me  ^.^

Still think you should talk to some gnomes, possibly actually animated wings made outta all sorts of stuff for the schooner.

[Kate]

bracers of armour add to armor.

You have shield / deflection / armour / natural armour / enchanted AC.

Your bracers of armour only replace armour you wear on your chest.
So if you have a shirt that has an AC of X and bracers of Armour + Y.

What you will get wearing both is only what you would get if you just wore the one with the largest AC.
Ie wearing full plate (non magical) and bracers of armour + 5 would be a waste of the bracers (as it wouldn't help).

Something like leather plus 2 however is leather ac plus 2 ac due to its enchanted AC bonus (not extended armor bonus)
(ie if you have something else that gives +2 enchantment - it will not stack with your armor

[NicciKotor]

Bracers of armor is armor DC, so they do not stack with things like chainshirt. I had a guy in a real life game that went sorcerer/paladin, and there is always a singular item you need to get:

Mithril Twilight Chainshirt!

+5 AC, no check penalty, +6 max dex, and 0% arcane spell failure. Twilight is a magic enhancement to armor that lowers spell failure by 10%.

[Kate]

How much is the shirt ?

(why take monk levels ? - sure you may be able to add a wis bonus to ac or something  - but two more level of sorcerer
gives you some options that are better)

[NicciKotor]

5100 gp for a mithril twilight chainshirt. Super fantastic for any armored mage.

[Aether]

Stunning fist (req for Enlightened Fist) level one, Evasion for level two.

So do bracers of armor count as armor thus negating a wis bonus for a monk?

[Kate]

pallys at level 6 autoget the ability to cast spells in heavy armour without arcane failure.

[Aether]

Paladin for the extra charisma abilities, not for the armor.  Then will be able to adjust the AC bonus to Cha with ascetic monk, or however you spell that.  And of course the HD and full BAB help  :)

[Kate]

i thought monks added their wisdom bonus to ac

not char bonus

[Wintercat]

Alright, its been long enough, I'll message abandoneddolly and hope she replies, if I wont hear of her soon, I think it's safe to say she isn't going to reply anymore.

In that event, we'll have a spot open to one person to join, whether its Aether or Zaer. I am sorry but I would like to keep a hold of the 6 players tops amount, if we start losing players at some point I'll consider recruiting a new fellow but until that time I have to say that sadly the game is already full.

Messaging abandoneddolly next.

[Aether]

I thought I was the first alternate  ^.^

Charisma bonuse comes with that feat, ascetic monk, Cha bonus instead of Wis.

[Wintercat]

At this point I'll have to check through the thread, my apologies but I've really kept a bit busy, the next 2 weeks are likely to be a bit hectic to me. I suggested it originally we launched somewhere along midway through this month, so it would be next week or at some point on the following week. In the middle of my rushing around, but I imagine the more intensive action will not start off immediately, giving me a bit of time to prepare (and I am not too busy, just rushed about) and set the stage ready.

Nonetheless, on the matters of the Exotic Mounts and Blimps, only if you find them in game. Blimps aren't exactly being made all around to be bought and sold, and exotic mounts are just that, exotic. If there was a very big city, a metropolis, it might have someone who could hook the characters up with something like that, but at the start of the game the characters know mostly a few large cities on the islands, and local legends about ruins and dangerous places.

[Aether]

Are you okay with me just using the strict interpretations of the summon mount feat, the whole it comes and goes to its plane as I please?

Also, are you okay with the idea of working towards enlightened fist?

Also, are you okay with me doing something in place of Summon Familiar?

[Wintercat]

If you point out the material where it says so, I will go along with it, I would rather not have things customized outside the books, and there's too many books out there for me to remember where every bit of materials comes from.

I'd like to check the feats but I am open to the possibility, and exchanging familiar for soemthing else is within the Unearthed Arcana I think, if I have the books and can check it, I figure it ought to be alright, though the books listed to not be in use in this should be left alone.

[Zaer Darkwail]

I can help here as I helped build up his concept.

He wants use either a metamagic specialist variant from PHB II for sorcerer. Or simply and plain; gain bonus feat instead familiar. The bonus feat would be eschew materials (which I find weird is not included in core consider sorcerers learn cast spells spontaneously and many spells need miscellaneous components).

He wants go to Enligthened Fist, which is PrC found in Complete Arcane pg34. He meets reguirements to enter to it in 8th level (basically needs cast 3th level spells). Reason for two monk levels is for stunning fist and improved unarmed strike what PrC asks (and combat casting).

He also plans use Decisive Strike variant of the monk from PHB II. Sacrifice flurry class feature to use full round action to do single unarmed attack which does double dmg and increase stunning fist attack save DC by +2. He aims to be monk who casts true strike and tumbles near foe, then he charges 'one round' to perform mega powerful attack. Fun part; if foe is evil his smite evil dmg is also doubled in decisive strike (so +12 pts more dmg to foe).

The feat what he talks about is in Complete Aventurer in pg105. Also my bad Aether, the reguirements are easy and you can take the feat in 6th level :P. Anycase feat regs are improved unarmed strike and able cast 2th level spells. It gives ability sacrifice a spell slot (as swift action) to add +X to attack and dmg rolls, the X value is egual to level of the spell sacrificed and bonus lasts for 1 round. Also it makes monk and sorcerer levels stack for AC bonus (so monk 2/sorcerer 4 have +1 bonus to AC from class levels). Also you add Cha mod to AC instead Wis if you so prefer. Also allowing multiclass freely between monk and sorcerer.

Anycase the paladin mount variant he speaks of is in Dragon Magic pg13 and mount stats in pg113. Variant is called 'Drakkensteed Mount'. Pic of the mount is in below (only thing what he looses is that his drakkensteed cannot speak with animals of it's kind);

Stats are;

Drakkensteed
Always N, Large animal (dragonblood)
Init: +2 Senses: Low-Light Vision, Listen+6, Spot +5
AC: 15, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural armor)
HP: 30 (4 HD)
Fort+8, Ref+6, Will+3
Speed: 50'ft, Fly 60'ft (poor)
Melee: Bite +8 (1d8+6)
Space: 10'ft, Reach: 5'ft
Base Atk: +3, Grp: +13
Atk options: Trample
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 12
Feats: Alertness, Wingover
Skills: Listen+6, Spot+5
Trample (Ex): As a fullround action, a drakkensteed can move up to 100'ft and literally run over medium or smaller creatures. Dealing 1d6+9 points bludgeoning damage (reflex save DC 19) to each target. Read MM pg316 for details.

Some info: Drakkensteeds are mix of a horse and dragons, they are very skittish animals which are very rarely seen in the world. But as mounts they are outright brave; daring bite any sized foe who dares come close harm their riders. They have natural regal and graceful appearance and paladin mounted version of Drakkensteeds are legendary beasts which rare few can ever ride. Paladins who rever dragons or worship draconic deities can get Drakkensteed.

[Kate]

I love the idea of the variant, enschew materials is more sorcery than a familiar.
They dont need books or get better by reading things, makes sense they don't need components before they start befriending things. (that rule variant accepted ? if it is I would love to change my familiar for that)

Those dragony- mounts look amazing. Almost worth not having all those fighter feats for.

*

True Strike
Divination
Level:    Sor/Wiz 1
Components:    V, F
Casting Time:    1 standard action
Range:    Personal
Target:    You
Duration:    See text

You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.
Focus

A small wooden replica of an archery target.

As a ring...
Spell level1 × caster level × 2,000 gp3

If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

It has a component part so 500 gp for the ring.

Ring of constant true strike: 2,500 gp

[Wintercat]

The list of changes looks acceptable, if Aether takes those up it could be very interesting.

Kate, those spells that can be made continuous and so forth have a duration. That spell is instant, or rather, its a special case.

I'd rule out using it, or you can expect that any wizard enchanter worth his pay has thought of it already and you will find your armor is suddenly pretty hollow protection when everyone's attacks surpass everything.

Egads, I hate sounding like a rule-lawyer, but that's the kind of little exploit that could completely ruin the game, I am not sure if my reasoning is 100% solid but I'd view it like that at least. Its an instant, or special case spell. It does not have a listed duration, rather it dissipates with the next attack, which needs to be made soon.

Anyhow, I got drawn in to DM this but I am still willing to step down if you find someone you'd rather have DM to all of you, but if you're willing to go by the headache of order I try to impose, I'll try and start up the game as soon as possible.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, I can make my knight|figther/paladin ready incase if there's free slot.

[Kate]

please do order us away.

Clears all right up - order what you want suchthat it stays interesting for you.

With that said, Im interested in everything so if you want to rule our flyin ship stuff or whatever im still good to go :)

[Aether]

Thank you, Zaer.  I could not find the book last night and thus could not confirm or deny that the info you provided was accurate.

And are we still holding off on the Draken Steed, Wintercat?

[Zaer Darkwail]

So far as I understand from his post....

The list of changes looks acceptable, if Aether takes those up it could be very interesting.

And not mentioning Drakkensteed it means it's accetable variant for him and so it's approved. Congrats, you got eguine dragon mount :). You just need write down in summon mount part 'summon drakkensteed'. So far as I understand the drakkensteed has also celestial creature template as is norm with normal paladin mounts plus the adjustments. Only limit is that it never receives 'speak with animals of it's kind'.

Anycase starting make my char.

[Kate]

Zaer u doing a pally with a dragony mount also  ? could be interesting !

No reason why not if its cool (from my perspective its really what palidins have needed to be interesting enough to play otherwise they are just do gooders without cool feats of fighters)

Certainly give a feel of command about the place!

[Zaer Darkwail]

I thinked about the drakkensteed idea and I thinked make a draconic sort of knight. A knight of Bahamuth basically. Thinked play Silverbrow human so I have trick in sleeve in case if I fall somewhere from very high :P. Or need parachute someone. I was tempted to use draconic husk armor feature but it sucks you cannot anyway improve it's AC and it's quite low. But it has other nice perks (resistance vs most element dmg, you can sleep while wearing it and noboddy cannot steal it from you). Also there is something fun to shed your armor on occassion :P.

[Aether]

There is only one dilemma here, ZD  :P

We are both lined up for that one extra spot!

[Zaer Darkwail]

Rofl, indeed. So either way party gets paladin if spot comes free :).

[Aether]

Other than a Cape of Charisma, what other options in that stat do I have to bump it up?

I could go the armor route with bracers of armor and ring of prot for an overall shift of plus four.  Then I have 4k left.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Get amulet of mighty fists. The +1 bonus is not much but it makes your fists count magical until you can enter enligthened fist PrC.

[SomeGuy]

+1 is 6k gold for mighty fists. An amulet of natural armor +1 might be worth it.

[Wintercat]

No answer from abandoneddolly. Waiting a little longer, but it starts to seem she is unable to join us along in this then. I'll be waiting to see how it turns out, but well its been a fairly long period of time already.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Ok, soonish my char ready. I let others vote which one they take to be fair.

[Zaer Darkwail]

btw, HP is rolled or maxed the 5 levels after 1st?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Here is my charsheet, HP not added yet as it's remains as question still.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=296337

I am using the Dragonscale Husk feature from Dragon magic. It gives me ability grow scales which AC value is 6 + 1/3 class level which gives it (this case knight gives it). In 5th level I receive resistance 5 vs Acid, Cold, Ligthning and Fire. It grows over the levels. Bad side this armor cannot be enchanted with item creation feats nor increased with magic vestment potions. But at 18th level it gives me +12 AC which is same as Full Plate with +4 enchant. It's perks is that I can shed armor off in 10 minutes but it takes 8 hours grow back. Also I can sleep that armor on without any penalties.

Also in 5th paladin level plan take Drakkensteed mount and plan focus and expand on mounted combat after that point then. But otherwise I am well rounded face guy; +8 sense motive, diplomacy and intimidate. Bit religion and nobility lore. Build wise I am tank, the shield ward gives me shield bonus to touch AC and affects to resist trip, bullrush, disarms and grapple attempts etc. Divine Shield is from Complete Warrior and allows use one turn undead charge to get Charisma mod to my shield bonus for egual to 1/2 char level in rounds. So I am sitting at 28 AC vs everyone and 29 AC vs single target (+5 vs ranged attacks).

Altough damage potential is not that great with my knight but if he uses Test of Mettle and forces lots mobs charge him....he gets AoO vs any foes who charge him and he can strike three foes before they strike :P. Also knigth challenge gives +1 to hit and dmg and will saves (increases to +2 in next level). If he stands adjacent to anyone he can take hit and half dmg.

[Aether]

Like said earlier, this character will be able to one touch eventually and do alot of damage.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=295624

[Zaer Darkwail]

Hmmm? Do you know you need minimum 13 Str to have Power Attack feat :P. Also higher Str would help more with the damage department.

[Aether]

lol, i took it off of recomendation and did nod pay heed to the str part.  Is their a Charisma mod plus to attack also, ZD?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Charisma mod adds on attack roll only when you smite evil bastards. Otherwise you depend on raw muscle. Also cheap way to get more AC would be if you would know mage armor spell (it would save cost of bracers for long run and you can somepoint empower mage armor spell to get +6 bonus to AC). Shocking Grasp is good choice for nuke moment (as you can cast spell and hold it ready in the hand before you do decisive strike). But 2th level spell I would had picked some buff spell. Animalistic Power spell works like Bull's strenght and so forth buff spells. But instead one stat it gives +2 to Str, Dex and Con.

[Aether]

Yeah, I am not done with the spell list yet.  I could have sworn there was a feat for using Cha mod instead of Str on attacks  :P

I guess weapon finesse it is!

[Zaer Darkwail]

But remember; you have limited amount of feats here. So far as I count you got these for certain;

Human racial: Free
1st level: Power Attack
Monk 1st level: Stunning Fist (Enligthened Fist reg feat)
Monk 2th level: Combat Reflex
3th level: Combat Casting (Enligthened Fist reg feat, +4 concentration checks while casting defensively spell while threatened)
6th level: Ascetic Mage

So use the human racial for attack modifier then?

[Aether]

Yeah, may as well go Weapon Finesse and up that BAB some.  And I wont be upping my str for Power Attack and Dragon Steed goes there.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Dragon steed?! Do you understand that Drakkensteed replaces the ability what paladin gets in 5th level.....you do not need sacrifice feat to get it :P. It's called variant for reason. As some paladn variant gives up spellcasting to gain bonus feats instead each 4th level.

Weapon finesse is okay choice up your BAB. But without power attack and having only 10 str means your decisive strikes looses a lot punching power. Did you even think that you can use decisive strike as part of cleave action? If foe falls down, you can perform decisive strike as part of cleave or great cleave action?

[NicciKotor]

Charisma mod adds on attack roll only when you smite evil bastards. Otherwise you depend on raw muscle. Also cheap way to get more AC would be if you would know mage armor spell (it would save cost of bracers for long run and you can somepoint empower mage armor spell to get +6 bonus to AC). Shocking Grasp is good choice for nuke moment (as you can cast spell and hold it ready in the hand before you do decisive strike). But 2th level spell I would had picked some buff spell. Animalistic Power spell works like Bull's strenght and so forth buff spells. But instead one stat it gives +2 to Str, Dex and Con.

Or you could go my route and wander around the place naked. At most I am going to wear a cloak. Damn humans and their weird sense of decency.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Or you could go my route and wander around the place naked. At most I am going to wear a cloak. Damn humans and their weird sense of decency.

Their sense of decency is only to protect from their constant animal alike heating lust from each other. Animals follow time of the year when they mate, humans follow by how much clothes they wear.

[Aether]

Well, ZD, I do understand the potential there, trust me.  The stats seem a bit spread out though atm.  AND I am really more playing towards the Enlightened Fist part with the whole true strike / decisive strike / smite evil / arcane fist / [insert spell here] and trying to get the Charisma higher.

Of course, enlightened discussion on this is okay with me  :P

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yeah, I just gave my opinion :). Do as you like, but I thought for your concept you need bump much as you can Str. So this case you can bump up power attack max of your BAB while true strike makes sure attack will hit in next round. In very high level you could even quicken true strike. The benefit of power attack early levels in gestalt could make quite difference in damage potential. As also if you pick cleave or greater cleave you can affect more than one foe with super attack.

[Aether]

Where would you take the three points from, though?

I could see taking a point from Cha, thats 2 of the needed.  Not sure where to grab the other one though, dont want negs...

[Zaer Darkwail]

I would say that you could drop from dexterity one point. Or two same go. Change one first level spells to mage armor (you can change it later if you get gear compensate +4 AC). Your AC drops to 17 but with mage armor you get 21 AC. The mage armor can be invisible or take form of clothes or even armor. Entirely up to imagination. Same with Shield spell but it has much shorter duration than mage armor.

This way you get Str 14 which is decent boost to your physical dmg and also qualify for power attack. You loose only 1pt from charisma and have Dex 16. With combat reflex you have 4 AoO per round, which is enough in most situations if not even more. But problem is only where get those AoO. I myself favor picking feats like Hold of the Line and Robillar's Gambit (things which makes foe provoke AoO when they should not).

Also check your temp score; now it shows you have -5 mod in charisma with all your skills :P. I presume you meant 23 mod? Using one ion stones to have +2 to charisma correct?

[Aether]

Yeah, I cant figure out why it did that.

If I drop cha and dex a total of three points, that gets me 6 back and wouldnt need finesse cause that would net a str of 16.

I cant max out tumble yet because its cross classed atm.  But one could tumble into the middle of some lightly armored foes and wreak havoc, but yeah, 3 sounds like enough on the AoO.

Working on it!

[Zaer Darkwail]

Tumble cross class skill? As monk you get first two levels tumble, and after that you can increase it's max rank by 2pts. At least how I rule in my table that once you have got some skill as class skill, you can raise it to max rank but it costs more to do so when not level up into class which does not have it as class skill.

Anycase 16 Str and 16 Dex good for monk. As 4 AoO would be good enough (you get 1 + dex mod amount AoO with combat reflex).

[Aether]

*nods*

It takes me a bit to make sure all the numbers are right.

Well, I figured once I made it to EF, I could start training it again.  Can I do so now?  Train it that is?  The reason its 3 atm is for a full rank gather info, which you did not take  :P

[Wintercat]

We had a player announce he's withdrawing from the game, seeing how enthusiastic Aether and Zaer are about it, and I've still got no word from abandoneddolly. I'm starting to think the two of you might both be in-game shortly if this goes on.

I'm saddened to lose the other player, but I appreciate him being honest with how he feels at the same time.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I'm pretty psyched that we're picking up two really enthusiastic players, Wintercat.

[Kate]

i have an idea.

We start the IC thread quickly.

the GM doesn't wait for everyone to post before addressing any.

Most dont mind their character being godemoded "doing something boring but useful and not stupid and just agreeing with whatever else seems to beleive"

It could be the gm could post after how many posts he has read at his whim.

This IS about what works for the storyteller. We HAVE to remember that.

What breaks big groups isnt personality clashes, its always waiting on the slowest, and giving everyone ago before the train moves to the next station. The train is always waiting at stations, its spends most of its time waiting.

That isn't how trains move.

So I think that wintercat posts as the storyteller any time he wants, and i think its mature for players to be cool if the storyteller - or whoever godemodes your character (determines what you do).
Such that the story can move on and when you do have time to post more things have happened - you will have more and more to post about.

[Kate]

It keeps it action ! :)

Argh !

[Aether]

I took the exact same line in another game, asked, begged the story teller to just catch up with the other, fluid time like we call it in Xaviers...  BUT YES!

*High Fives Kate!*

[Aether]

Question:

Scorching Ray does an extra ray per x levels.  Could my character do a ray per attack when the time comes?

[Zaer Darkwail]

The Scorching Ray does 4d6 fire dmg and you get one extra ray each four levels caster levels you have. So if you convert scorching ray as touch spell in 12th level or so, then you do combined dmg instead sepaprated with single attack (a 12d6 fire dmg).

[Kate]

Hey I have an idea.

As far as magical items go - lets make them magical by agreeing to one thing upright.

There is no such thing as a "magical item" vendor store in cities and towns where we can get what we want.
I think this takes the "wow" our of magical items with that being the case.

Perhaps we hear wind of a few things in rumors, send letters of interest, occasionally a merchant claims he has some
(these are travelling merchants perhaps and well defended ... but have random things, probably not many of them.)

Or stumble upon them ourselfs. And what they are / what they can do / if they can be sold we role play... it :)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, I do agree to extend that magic items would be rare and shared among many merchants over the country but I think a one, bit overpriced (+5% more expensive than norm), magic store in major capital would be okay addition.

Anycase glad able to join this game :). As question to GM; does mithril weapons count 'silver' for bypassing the DR? I made my katana from silver for more of theme and fitting for silver dragon lineaged family heirloom item. But I wonder would mithril weapon count silver as it's after all called as 'true silver'.

[NicciKotor]

Yay, we can finally get this game started. Horo needs her sacrifices!

[Aether]

Gotchya  ^.^

Off to work I go!

[PhantomPistoleer]

Quick question:

Is Dungeonscape available for this campaign?  And the miniatures guide?

[Wintercat]

Alright. I've been preparing, and heard nothing from abandoneddolly. If she contacts me past this point, I'll make her the -7th- member of the team, but in the meanwhile the team includes Aether and Zaer Darkwail.

Phantompistoleer, I don't have Dungeonscape at my disposal, so I will have to say no.

Miniatures Handbooks, that I have at my disposal.

If anyone objects the miniatures handbook, raise your voice and tell me.

If I hear no objection by Tuesday, then Miniatures Handbook is in use.

Game Launches on Wednesday, 11th of May.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Don't worry about it, Winter.  I'd only care for Miniatures if Dungeonscape was available, specifically if the factotum class was available.  Since it isn't, it won't be an issue worth discussion. :D

[Zaer Darkwail]

I do not object miniature's handbook. It's ONLY book where you can find marshal.

[SomeGuy]

There's nothing in the Miniature's Handbook that is really unbalanced at all, especially compared to what's in the PHB.

Zaer, Aether- have fun.

Wintercat- if you'd ever like some help stating NPCs out I'd be happy to lend a hand.

[Wintercat]

There's nothing in the Miniature's Handbook that is really unbalanced at all, especially compared to what's in the PHB.

Zaer, Aether- have fun.

Wintercat- if you'd ever like some help stating NPCs out I'd be happy to lend a hand.

Thank you, SomeGuy. Your presence will be missed, but you will be welcome to any game I might run in the days to come here, or that I would perhaps become part of. I'll raise my hat to you and wish you good luck.

[Creshnagarine]

Hello,

I noticed I got bumped on the list, any reason why?

I am still interested, if it can be arranged.




Your friend,

Creshnagarine

[Wintercat]

@Creshnagarine

Hello and good day, it was not intensional but the way this preparation has progressed has been abit staggering, there's been more interest than I've been expecting and I originally thought I'd be happy with 3 or 4 players. I was waiting for some people to message me if they are still interested or not, and during that time Zaer and Aether have pretty much prepared their characters ready.

In light of this, when one of the players no longer responded, and another volunteered to step out - in favor of these two - I saw it best to include them. The player who has not messaged me back might still get in if she messaged me with a reason why she could not contact me before about this game.

Otherwise, I think the game is full and running with this crew then. I apologise for being side-stepped, but your message on interest in the game got buried among the others while preparations were going on for the game. When spots then opened I had few people who had already prepared up to the point of being able to just jump in and replace those that are gone.

Current Players (maximum of 6)
PhantomPistoleer
Kate
Muse
NicciKotor
Zaer Darkwail
Aether
----
Requested to Join if Dropouts happen
Creshnagarine
SomeGuy
abandoneddolly
----
Cancelled Joining
RubySlippers

[Wintercat]

The Game has Launched

The Game Thread has been posted, feel free to drop in. You are not obligated to snatch onto the first hook presented, the game will have plenty of options available along time, but depending on which hooks you grasp onto and which you ignore the events may be different in the long run.

The characters actions have a good chance to affect the future of the inner sea, but I plan to provide more links than I expect the party to be able to handle, at least time wise, so its a good idea to look for some better hooks if current ones dont provide interest enough to pursue them.

The game is not centered on a major quest, but it will contain some moving elements allowing the player characters to leave a real impact if and how they choose.

[Kate]

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=106565.0

[Aether]

Oh blessed GM, we need a dedicated OOC so we can keep this chat outta the groups wanted thread  ^.^

[Wintercat]

Aether, I am not sure if you are honestly that respectful or if you are being sarcastic.

Anyhow, the idea is good, the OOC Thread has now been created.

The In-Character thread is still awaiting players though.

[NicciKotor]

It is common practice to make those three threads.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Please permit someone on the waiting list to take my place.

My schedule became too hectic for another game.

[ulthakptah]

I would like to be on the waiting list for this game.

[Aether]

Aether, I am not sure if you are honestly that respectful or if you are being sarcastic.

I was being over flowery in my request, but there was no hint of sarcasm, and if I came across as such, I apologize!