RPGs you want to try but you doubt you'd get your Real Life Group to try.

Started by Callie Del Noire, May 26, 2011, 09:35:47 AM

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Callie Del Noire

I am a fairly diverse player, and starting with a new group that from the sounds of it is very Fantasy only orientated. (Will post how things go after this weekend).

But there area a lot of games in my RPG Archive folder (45 gigs to date) and looking over the games last night I realized there are some games I REALLY want to try out but don't see selling to a new group out the gate.

-The Laundry (Charlie Stross' mix up for Espionage, Red Tape and the Mythos) and Delta Green
-Cyberpunk 2020
-Dresden Files
-Paranoia
-Mutants and Masterminds (have high hopes for this.. slipped in a suggestion to check out hero lab to a few of the players so far. :D )

Anyone got games they like but can't sell to their players. :D

rhev

Paranoia and Cyberpunk 2020 are games I've played in the past, I had a lot of fun with paranoia.

I'd love to find a group that could get into a Serenity RPG.  (captain mal ftw)

HairyHeretic

Any of the 40k ones (Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch and the upcoming Black Crusade).
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
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Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Oniya

I've tried more than once to get an Earthdawn campaign going.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Oniya on May 26, 2011, 10:01:47 AM
I've tried more than once to get an Earthdawn campaign going.

Oh yeah.. great setting.. Played an Archer type in it for the LONGEST time.. two archers..one windling and mine (an elf) doiing the 'who killss the most' contest..  the Windling once did over 100 POINTS in one shot. Never saw that many maximum die rolls at one sitting.. (keeping in mind that your typical Windling arrow is the size of a swizzle stick) GM ruled it hit his foe,, went in one ear, out the other..and KILLED the next guy too!

TheGlyphstone

Exalted. Every story and campaign log I've ever read about it is like a non-stop roll of crazy epic awesome.

HairyHeretic

Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Hemingway

Anything. RPGs aren't that big here, quite simply. I don't know anyone who's into them, at all.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: HairyHeretic on May 26, 2011, 02:10:48 PM
It is that. :) Exalted plays best in an over the top style.

I'd occasionally thought about trying to find someone willing to run an Exalted game on E, if only because it'd an excuse to actually write up Sidereal Marital Arts, the best typo in the history of Exalts ever.

Star Safyre

I wish I could play more Mouseguard and live-action oWoD Werewolf and Changling.  We have a few groups we play different things with, so I know I can't complain much.
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HairyHeretic

I've toyed with the idea of doing a Return of the Scarlet Empress game. PCs could be a mix of solars, Lunars, maybe sidereals and even abyssals.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: HairyHeretic on May 26, 2011, 02:55:46 PM
I've toyed with the idea of doing a Return of the Scarlet Empress game. PCs could be a mix of solars, Lunars, maybe sidereals and even abyssals.

That seems kind of weird, I mean.. with her back wouldn't the dragon blooded have access to a lot of the powerful weapons and such she had access to?

HairyHeretic

Yes and no.

I don't want to go into too much detail, and spoiler plot stuff that the campaign gives. If you're not interested in playing it, I can tell you a bunch of stuff via PM, or something?
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: HairyHeretic on May 26, 2011, 03:37:27 PM
Yes and no.

I don't want to go into too much detail, and spoiler plot stuff that the campaign gives. If you're not interested in playing it, I can tell you a bunch of stuff via PM, or something?

That would be grand. I doubt I'll ever play another White Wolf game after they took the editor's chainsaw of mayhem to the oWoD. Till Hasbro's release of 4e it was the second worse 'revision' of a game setting/world/system I'd seen. Cyberpunk 20XX will always be #1.

meikle

Quote from: HairyHeretic on May 26, 2011, 02:55:46 PM
I've toyed with the idea of doing a Return of the Scarlet Empress game. PCs could be a mix of solars, Lunars, maybe sidereals and even abyssals.

You'd put in Abyssals but not, like, the most obvious splat after Solars to be working counter to the Reclamation? :P
Kiss your lover with that filthy mouth, you fuckin' monster.

O and O and Discord
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Callie Del Noire

I would LOVE to do an oWoD table top game.. magi running around fighting for reality.

(Last game we had there was a paradox storm in the middle of a three way battle between the players, the Technocrats and a bunch of mauraders who just brought in a 'friend' from the deep umbra. A full on multi-story 'I eat Hit-Marks' dragon. Needless to say there was a LOT of fun, and in the morning the clean up crews from the Technocrats were lying their asses off.)

meikle

I've never been able to convince anyone that oWoD Ratkin would be an awesome game to play.

Much to my dismay.
Kiss your lover with that filthy mouth, you fuckin' monster.

O and O and Discord
A and A

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: meikle on May 26, 2011, 06:12:51 PM
I've never been able to convince anyone that oWoD Ratkin would be an awesome game to play.

Much to my dismay.

I remember the first time we met a were in oWoD.. (remember this is like 1st edition Vampire). We were chasing down a suspected diabolist for the Prince of Charlotte NC and had followed this Gangrel up into the mounts above Ashville (the Tremere and Venture had our minions bus us up there during the day).

We run into this heavy set burly guy, lots of hair, who literally growled at us to leave town. Most of us had listened to the Prince and the phrase 'don't aggravate the locals' when we were told to check out this town. The Gangrel and Brujah of the group figured they could take him, they had ripped apart a pair of nasty vampire hunters the month before and figured that was what they were facing.

The were beat the Brujah to death with a VW VAN. Two hits. Smish.

meikle

Werecritters in WoD can be ... pretty brutal!

Wererats just had ridiculous dexterity scores, though, not so much strength.  I loved the artwork.  I liked that Ratkin were portrayed running around with machine guns and dynamite, not killing things with their claws and swords.

Like this: http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2482873720032288519jKqoQP

And you could get away with running a Ratkin where the entire plot was summarized with 'kill everything between point A and point B' and be totally in theme, since they hate the weaver and they hate the wyrm and they don't really give a damn about gaia either.
Kiss your lover with that filthy mouth, you fuckin' monster.

O and O and Discord
A and A

HairyHeretic

Quote from: meikle on May 26, 2011, 06:06:43 PM
You'd put in Abyssals but not, like, the most obvious splat after Solars to be working counter to the Reclamation? :P

If the Reclamation worked, Creation would never be dragged into the Underworld, so yes, I would see the Deathlords working against it :)

Given the scale of the game, I think Dragonbloods would be a bit outclassed, the Fae would probably wait til everyone else had fought to exhaustion, then move in, and the Transformers wouldn't really feature :P
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

meikle

Quote from: HairyHeretic on May 26, 2011, 06:44:18 PM
If the Reclamation worked, Creation would never be dragged into the Underworld, so yes, I would see the Deathlords working against it :)

Given the scale of the game, I think Dragonbloods would be a bit outclassed, the Fae would probably wait til everyone else had fought to exhaustion, then move in, and the Transformers wouldn't really feature :P

I'm referring to Infernals as the most obvious splat after Solars -- I'm pretty sure that a fair number of them would give up on working with the Reclamation as soon as it became clear to them just where they'd feature in the Yozis' ideal world (or even as they started to consider where they'd probably feature ...) :P
Kiss your lover with that filthy mouth, you fuckin' monster.

O and O and Discord
A and A

HairyHeretic

I don't actually have that one. None of my group would be interested in playing an Infernal, so I never picked the book up.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

meikle

Quote from: HairyHeretic on May 26, 2011, 06:50:11 PM
I don't actually have that one. None of my group would be interested in playing an Infernal, so I never picked the book up.

Oh man, that is disappointing.  It's definitely regarded as one of the tightest books (mechanically, at least), and I meant that in the sense that it is well-crafted, not in the oh man so tight sense of the word.

Beyond that, though, Infernals are pretty integral to the Reclamation plot, aren't they?
Kiss your lover with that filthy mouth, you fuckin' monster.

O and O and Discord
A and A

HairyHeretic

They'd be doing a lot during it, yes. I don't see them on the same side as the solars mind you :)
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Callie Del Noire

And of course how could I forget my two favorite Gurps settings.

IOU and Discworld (Oook!)

Maelyn

I don't have a RL RP group around me anymore.  Too many break ups and moves that it all fell apart.  I would love to find a good WoD game though.  I miss playing Vampire. 

Best embrace I've ever witnessed:

Malkavian:  *screams in surprise*  What's that?!  *points the other direction*
Human:  *turns head quickly to see what's up*  Where?!
Malkavian:  *waits for human to turn their head then pounces*

Ahh, good times...

Callie Del Noire



Funguy81


TheGlyphstone

Since WoD has been mentioned, I've been reading the latest draft of Genius: The Transgression and basically falling in love with every page. A Genius game would be so much fun, it's unbelievable.

Malefique

Real life roleplayers, those were the days.  Nowadays if I talk to someone and mention rpgs they almost always start talking about Baldur's Gate or Two Worlds or Fable.  Until I came here, that is.  I always wanted to do Changeling but it never got much interest.  And Delta Green, never had a chance at that.
Everything is true.  God's an astronaut.  Oz is over the rainbow, and Midian is where the monsters live.

HairyHeretic

Changeling the Dreaming or Changeling the Lost?

I'd love to give CtD a go as well, but any game I've gotten into of it so far has died very shortly after starting.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Chocolate Sin

I'd love to try Burning Wheel, but my group's never been in the right space for it. Star Wars Saga looks pretty good too.

Callie Del Noire

Well the pathfinder game went off well. The Druid got put down by a cave fisher but it died right after it put him to -1 and the 30 foot fall did him -8. His body landed on the cleric who stabilized him. 


Oniya

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on May 29, 2011, 01:41:50 PM
Well the pathfinder game went off well. The Druid got put down by a cave fisher but it died right after it put him to -1 and the 30 foot fall did him -8. His body landed on the cleric who stabilized him.

That's one for tavern-tales later.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Oniya on May 29, 2011, 02:30:13 PM
That's one for tavern-tales later.

Yeah.. after 3 rounds of panicked channeling (which healed the large wolf sized spider I was fighting) I came to the decision that the Gnome Illusionist's blinding ray was wicked good. :D

Oniya

We had one session that involved landing near the cleric with the Res. spell (that monster must have been convinced that the monk was immortal!  But that's a story for a different thread), but never on one.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Callie Del Noire

Right now I'm working on a 'Check list' of what is going to be allowed/not allowed in my game (sooner or later I'll have one start up).

Some of the 'house rules' I'm adding so far.
-No Curses for Oracles. It's annoying stuff mostly.
-No Calvaliers, still waffling on Inquistors, Witches.
-No Archtypes. While some are fairly good some like the Synergist from the new Ultimate Magic book are potentially terrifying.

TheGlyphstone

You might want to reconsider that last one, at least for classes like the Fighter - the addition of Archtypes gave Fighters something they'd been lacking since 3.0 was printed..actual class features other that +1/-1 to [X]. They make the Fighter chassis a hundred times more flexible and varied without really messing with the power level much.

One I've heavily considered myself for my eventual game (though I wouldn't be running pure PF anyways) is just giving Monks straight-up full BAB. They currently have full BAB for everything except feat prerequisites, which I find to be silly and nonsensical.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on May 30, 2011, 09:33:50 AM
You might want to reconsider that last one, at least for classes like the Fighter - the addition of Archtypes gave Fighters something they'd been lacking since 3.0 was printed..actual class features other that +1/-1 to [X]. They make the Fighter chassis a hundred times more flexible and varied without really messing with the power level much.

One I've heavily considered myself for my eventual game (though I wouldn't be running pure PF anyways) is just giving Monks straight-up full BAB. They currently have full BAB for everything except feat prerequisites, which I find to be silly and nonsensical.

Truthfully fighters can do almost everything that their Archetypes can in pathfinder. Pathfinder fighters are very very flexible. Hell with the Ametauer gunslinger feat they make better gunmen than the class. 

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on May 30, 2011, 08:18:22 PM
Truthfully fighters can do almost everything that their Archetypes can in pathfinder. Pathfinder fighters are very very flexible. Hell with the Ametauer gunslinger feat they make better gunmen than the class.

I'd really disagree, there are tons of archtype abilities that feats simply can't replicate - from the APG alone, you've got things like the Archer Archtype making so an archery-based warrior can use his weapon safely, even against melee range enemies. The Mobile Fighter and (to a lesser extent, the Two-Weapon Fighter) make baby steps towards what melee classes desperately need, the ability to fight at full effectiveness without standing still for a whole turn. I can understand denying caster classes archtype abilities...they need more power like a bonfire needs ten gallons of gasoline...but it's definitely a leg up for the mundanes (the fighter at least, I know very little of other classes's archtypes).

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on May 30, 2011, 08:50:40 PM
I'd really disagree, there are tons of archtype abilities that feats simply can't replicate - from the APG alone, you've got things like the Archer Archtype making so an archery-based warrior can use his weapon safely, even against melee range enemies. The Mobile Fighter and (to a lesser extent, the Two-Weapon Fighter) make baby steps towards what melee classes desperately need, the ability to fight at full effectiveness without standing still for a whole turn. I can understand denying caster classes archtype abilities...they need more power like a bonfire needs ten gallons of gasoline...but it's definitely a leg up for the mundanes (the fighter at least, I know very little of other classes's archtypes).

Sorry.. I can see most of what the Archetypes can do in the fighters.. and the Ultimate Magic book killed it in one word.

Synergist.

TheGlyphstone

Then ban the caster archtypes. Or...just ban casters. I wouldn't complain.

Though now I'm going to have to go look up what Synergist does, if it's this ridiculous. ???

Black Howling

I'd love to try Palladium sometime, but will never be able to get the books and considering my group I'll never be able to get them to try it.

{EDIT} Add rifts to that as well, and I'm with Callie on Mutants and Masterminds.

TheGlyphstone

Oh yeah, back on topic.

Um....oh, I remember one. A rather obscure indy RPG called Continuum, all about playing time travellers.

Callie Del Noire

Eclipse Phase.. a post-Singularity game.. Mankind is scattered all over the solar system after a near extinction event on Earth. The AIs (Titans) are gone but the impact of the cataclysm is still seen throughout the solar system.

Some of the fun you can have includes duplication a person's consciousness.. in fact one adventure I have the players are all 'forks' (copies) of the same person.

HairyHeretic

A friend of mine has played a few games of that. I've read a bit of the background, and it is quite interesting.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: HairyHeretic on May 31, 2011, 08:32:52 AM
A friend of mine has played a few games of that. I've read a bit of the background, and it is quite interesting.

Oh it is a very fascinating game. LOTS of things to play with. Such as the project to create a whole new generation of people that fell through. They put the kids in a virtual world, ran it at 50 times normal speed, when 'accidents' started happening they would wipe and reset the world. Turns out all the kids had been infected with a mental virus, and a good chunk of them were psychotic. Just what you needed, a new generation of humans with mental powers, an awareness of what can be done in the world and virtually and without a speck of compassion.

One supposedly destroyed an entire habitat.

Then you got things like uplifted animals (I've seen instances of octopi and apes and such in the game)


Oniya

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on May 31, 2011, 08:37:46 AM
Then you got things like uplifted animals (I've seen instances of octopi and apes and such in the game)

Uplifted like in the David Brin novels?




Another game I always wanted to try was Planescape.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

HairyHeretic

Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Oniya on May 31, 2011, 08:39:20 AM
Uplifted like in the David Brin novels?




Another game I always wanted to try was Planescape.

Yup.. just like the Brin novels. There are a few 'crunch' flavor short stories that were used for stand alone short story you can get in a few ebook formats. In one of them one of the charaters is an uplifted octopi hacker. He squeezed into tight spaces, hacked the systems and in the end one of the other characters blew his brains out (they were trapped on Earth with hunter-killers coming to get them.

Like I said.. a neat setting and one I'd like to take time to learn more of.

I get the same sort of culture shock feeling I got with cyberpunk 2020.

Callie Del Noire


Marikir

Oh yeah, Eclipse Phase.

That setting seems fun.  Like a mishmash of a lot of different Sci-Fi shows/novels.  Brin as mentioned, Richard K Morgan, and Stargate, just to name a few.

Seriously like that setting and the ideas behind it.  Really want to try that one.

Craz

The Dresden Files RPG. They lack the attention span for it...

But I want to play it sooo bad!

HairyHeretic

Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Callie Del Noire


Black Howling


Callie Del Noire

Want to make a 'detective type' who summons spirits and such that helps trace cheating spouses and such. :D

HairyHeretic

If you want to get an idea of it, I have a DF game running here. You could read over that.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Black Howling

Quote from: HairyHeretic on June 02, 2011, 02:33:30 PM
If you want to get an idea of it, I have a DF game running here. You could read over that.
Your DF game was what got me interested in the system to begin with.  ::)

Callie Del Noire

This is one of the things I like about Eclipse Phase.. the fact you can be an uplifted cetacean who SWIMS in the sun!


Malefique

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on June 09, 2011, 06:11:38 PM
This is one of the things I like about Eclipse Phase.. the fact you can be an uplifted cetacean who SWIMS in the sun!



Wow.  But are there whalers?  I'd love to see their version of Captain Ahab...
Everything is true.  God's an astronaut.  Oz is over the rainbow, and Midian is where the monsters live.

Erani589

as many times as i try i can't get anyone to play Big Eyes Small Mouth...It looks really interesting but seeing as nobody wants to play it..i've never had the chance to find out

TheGlyphstone


Bayushi

Quote from: KaylaM on June 13, 2011, 08:36:07 AM
Mechwarrior - I've played it a lot, but always as the GM, rarely as the player. The Battletech universe is probably my favourtiest RPG universe ever, one I've been following since the dawn of time. I'd especially like to play under the current A Time Of War rules. 2d6 4 lif

Shadowrun - I've allways loved the setting but never had a chance to play it beyond a few high-school games aeons ago. It's one with a lot of potential and some great crazy/wild/etc ideas that I'm just itching to play with.

Non-d20 Star Wars - Paradox; I love the Star Wars universe, I loathe the d20 system. However, since I've never met someone who plays WEG Star Wars and I've never seen a full conversion to any other system, I will remain in perpetually frustrated land.

I'm with Kayla on most of this... except the WEG Star Wars. Force Users were so incredibly broken in WEG Star Wars that it wasn't worth playing.

I have played some great Mechwarrior campaigns, but unfortunately something always distracted us when it started getting really good, and we'd end up moving onto something else.

I had a ton of fun with Shadowrun, when crashing at a friend's place back in the late 90s. He and his wife had pretty much ALL of the Shadowrun books, and we ended up playing well over 400 hours of Shadowrun in a 4-player group (plus GM). Unfortunately, that ended when my friend was shipped overseas to Germany for six months (and he was the GM).

EDIT:
Another game I used to play a lot was Legend of the Five Rings (first edition). The Second Edition of the game was "meh", and I was not happy with the 3E/d20 variant (though I liked having the option for Forgotten Realms campaigns). It has/had a great character creation and combat/dice-system to it, a very simple method somewhat similar to oWoD's success/failure system.

Marikir

Quote from: Akiko on June 26, 2011, 04:22:16 AM


EDIT:
Another game I used to play a lot was Legend of the Five Rings (first edition). The Second Edition of the game was "meh", and I was not happy with the 3E/d20 variant (though I liked having the option for Forgotten Realms campaigns). It has/had a great character creation and combat/dice-system to it, a very simple method somewhat similar to oWoD's success/failure system.

I thought L5R had a fun looking system.  Unfortunately, any game we started never seemed to last long enough.  I've looked at the latest version, the fourth edition, and it looks nice.  I haven't played it yet, though.

HairyHeretic

I'm running a 4th ed game of L5R on Mumble on a Sunday night (8pm GMT start). You're both welcome to sit in and listen.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: HairyHeretic on June 26, 2011, 04:28:11 PM
I'm running a 4th ed game of L5R on Mumble on a Sunday night (8pm GMT start). You're both welcome to sit in and listen.

mumble?

HairyHeretic

Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Braioch

Quote from: HairyHeretic on June 26, 2011, 04:28:11 PM
I'm running a 4th ed game of L5R on Mumble on a Sunday night (8pm GMT start). You're both welcome to sit in and listen.

I'd even want to listen in on that....wonder why I never thought to do that with Mumble?!

Anywho

2 games and they're in the oWoD series.

Werewolf: I just can't seem to get my group to want actually play it and I would just LOVE to be able to so.

Kindred of the East: If you have never read the Sourcebook, do so, it's really really good. And being able to play that one day would be amazing.
I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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Maxwell Malamute

Playful rubber puppy, here! Into many other other things, just ask!

On and Offs, what I like to do/My Stories/The Origin of Love: My history, briefly/Meeting the Great God Pan

Braioch

I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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HairyHeretic

Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Avis habilis

Quote from: KaylaM on June 27, 2011, 12:05:57 AM
I'd rather WEG Star Wars over d20 still.

Likewise. For me, class & level & Star Wars go together like maple walnut ice cream & pesto sauce.

Which is to say, not.

AtlasEros

I'd love to get to play Paranoia.

I'm currently running a Mutants & Masterminds game.
O/O

DarklingAlice

There are far too many games in my collection that I have never played, but if I had to pick one of the top of my head...In Nomine. I really like the look of it. Unfortunately religion is about the only taboo subject amongst my IRL gaming group and I doubt a game of angels & demons would go over smoothly.
For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong.


Braioch

Demon: The Fallen, another good one I could have fun with ::)
I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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Crazy

I'd really like to play the Battlestar Galactica RPG,  and introduce some serious drama to my gaming group.  I'd like to cast the players as the headline characters of the show,  and run the events episodically as they are described in series.  Another exciting idea whould be to have the players as Cylons and work towards the extinction of the human race.

I can never pique anyone's interest in the Cthulu RPG,  people who have never played it are hard to convince and people who have played it are not interested in a game where "you either die or go insane."

Cyberpunk is a rich universe with netrunners and corporates and fixers,  but the game is often relagated to a 'Friday Night Firefight' as problem solving solutions are rare in a game where the characters are armed to the teeth.

I do run an exciting Paranoia game from time to time,  but these are usually one offs that result in a mix of apathy for characters that are doomed from the start to a series of revenge killings.

DarklingAlice

Quote from: Crazy on June 28, 2011, 11:34:17 AM
I can never pique anyone's interest in the Cthulu RPG,  people who have never played it are hard to convince and people who have played it are not interested in a game where "you either die or go insane."
Try getting them in for a round of Cthulhu Dark. It's super rules light so it cuts down on player investment that way you can sell them on the idea of Lovecraftain horror first and then wean them onto a more complex system if that is your fancy.

I find the biggest obstacle to getting my players to play something new is the prospect of having to learn a new system.
For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong.


MasterMischief

I have run two sessions of PDQ/PDQ#, but have not had the opportunity to actually play in it.

I would also like to try FATE, any flavor.

I would not mind giving Savage Worlds a go.

TheGlyphstone

I've always felt the 'everyone dies or goes insane' mindset of CoC to be 'doin' it wrong', so to speak. The true feel of the mythos comes together when you die and go crazy, yes, but you don't do it wastefully. You sacrifice yourself to disrupt the cult's portal spewing forth an army of Shoggoths, or deliberately read the forbidden tome backwards and go nuts to foil the summoning of Shub-Niggurath. You've given your lives and minds to win your victory...and the horror is that in the end, the greater scheme of things doesn't care. They'll try again, years from now, with a different cult, and the world's only hope is that another band of investigators will appear to confront the evil in your place.

Callie Del Noire

I played several campaigns with a very good GM. Half the time we 'brushed' the Mythos connection. Stuff like the kid who dabbled and unleashed a bunch of deep ones or created zombies in an attempt to reap vengence. (that went very very very badly.. but made for an interesting Sadie Hawkin's dance.)

When REAL mythos elements creep out.. it comes down to this.

Do you fight it right up front? (Like my brother's Merc who stumbled into into an Insane Revelation and hosed down the Boston PD and three SWAT teams before going down)

Or did you get clever (shoving a fuel truck down the critter's throat, amazing what you can do with a cinderblock and repair skill)

Or hop in a car and move to the next time zone.

The secret is options. Don't let the players do an end run into a no win, give them options..even if they aren't all good.

MasterMischief

The problem I have encountered with any horror campaign is the one player who never takes it seriously.

Marikir

I think that is actually part of the reason why I like human World of Darkness games or Unknown Armies.  They have that feeling of weird, almost unknowable/unnameable horrors, and yet you feel like you can do something about it. 

UA also has an interesting madness system, one that I'd really like to try out.

Braioch

I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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HairyHeretic

I'd like to try Changeling The Dreaming, but the rest of the WoD I could take or leave.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Braioch

I know nothing of Changeling, so far have only read Apocalypse and Masquerade, as well as the Eastern Supplements for both. Just started reading Mage though
I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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HairyHeretic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changeling:_The_Dreaming

Very modern day fairy tales, so to speak.

It has a VERY different feel to Changeling The Lost. Lost is much darker.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Avis habilis

PCs in Lost are also humans, if I remember right. They're all escapees from captivity among the fairies. In Dreaming the PCs were actual "fae kith". Our Dreaming party was two sluagh, a sidhe & a selkie.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Avis habilis on June 29, 2011, 08:44:29 AM
PCs in Lost are also humans, if I remember right. They're all escapees from captivity among the fairies. In Dreaming the PCs were actual "fae kith". Our Dreaming party was two sluagh, a sidhe & a selkie.

Not really. You were humans when you were captured, but spending time as the captives of the True Fae turned you into a Changeling, a part-fae part-human, and you never 'get better'. Ever - it's not nicknamed Abuse Victim: The Therapy needlessly.

Avis habilis

Huh - I thought the changeling bit in Lost referred to the fae having left one in your place when they carried you off. Good to know.

TheGlyphstone

Nope, those are called Fetches (constructs made of rubbish and animated by Fae magic), and they don't always do it. It's part of the pathos of Lost, when a newly escape changeling returns from ten years in Arcadia, only to find out it's been thirty real-world years and a Fetch who looks and acts just like them has been living their life all this time.

Oniya

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on June 29, 2011, 10:25:21 AM
Nope, those are called Fetches (constructs made of rubbish and animated by Fae magic), and they don't always do it. It's part of the pathos of Lost, when a newly escape changeling returns from ten years in Arcadia, only to find out it's been thirty real-world years and a Fetch who looks and acts just like them has been living their life all this time.

Glad I never picked up the nWoD.  That flies in the face of so many myths that it makes me wonder when White Wolf fired their research staff.

(A 'fetch' in every single other story I've read is an image that one sees that is an omen of their own death.  A duplicate is normally referred to as a 'changeling', although 'doppelgänger' is another possible term.)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

TheGlyphstone

Seems like a minor complaint relative to how much else they changed between the Old and New Changeling, but okay.

Oniya

As I've never picked up the books, I haven't seen the rest of the changes.  I never hit nWoD because (in my opinion) oWoD wasn't 'broken'.  Hence, no need to get a whole new set of books.  I've heard complaints about new Vampire and new Werewolf, but so few of the people in my current circles play Changeling that this is the first concrete example I've seen.  (I'd pretty much assumed that nWoD Changeling would be a mess, but this confirmed it.)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Oniya on June 29, 2011, 01:51:51 PM
As I've never picked up the books, I haven't seen the rest of the changes.  I never hit nWoD because (in my opinion) oWoD wasn't 'broken'.  Hence, no need to get a whole new set of books.  I've heard complaints about new Vampire and new Werewolf, but so few of the people in my current circles play Changeling that this is the first concrete example I've seen.  (I'd pretty much assumed that nWoD Changeling would be a mess, but this confirmed it.)

I don't think the folks at White Wolf had much of a choice. They lost a lot of the IP when they bought out the orginal owners. Look at how patchwork the old stuff was put into the nWoD. Folks who wrote the orignal books screwed them from what I heard.

Black Howling

Quote from: Oniya on June 29, 2011, 12:58:11 PM
Glad I never picked up the nWoD.  That flies in the face of so many myths that it makes me wonder when White Wolf fired their research staff.

(A 'fetch' in every single other story I've read is an image that one sees that is an omen of their own death.  A duplicate is normally referred to as a 'changeling', although 'doppelgänger' is another possible term.)
Fetch can mean doppelganger, actually. I imagine it was to reduce redundancy.

Callie Del Noire

I am contemplating getting the 20th Annuversary edition of Vampire:The Masquerade when it comes out.

consortium11

Quote from: Oniya on June 29, 2011, 12:58:11 PM
Glad I never picked up the nWoD.  That flies in the face of so many myths that it makes me wonder when White Wolf fired their research staff.

(A 'fetch' in every single other story I've read is an image that one sees that is an omen of their own death.  A duplicate is normally referred to as a 'changeling', although 'doppelgänger' is another possible term.)

A "fetch" meaning a supernatural double or apparition of a living person has a long history in Irish and Northern English folklore... there's the wiki article and a quick google search for "fetch folklore" reveals more.

I haven't actually heard the term "fetch" used to describe the situation you suggest... I've heard it used to describe the disembodied ghost of a living person that appear to distant friends and relations (as opposed to the individual themselves) at the very moment before the death of those they represent and fetch-light or fetch candle being a light appearing at night and which supposedly foretells someone's death.

Marikir

Let me preface this by saying that, frankly, I knew the oWoD like the back of my hand.  I could run anything in that game system, with very little planning, cause I was so versed in the universe/setting, that I made it sit up and beg. 

That stated...I actually like the nWoD.  No, I'm not as familiar with the new setup, but...there's plenty in the new system and the new setting that I actually enjoy.  Vampire, Mage, and Changeling, actually, are my favorites.  I even like the vanilla human options for nWoD games.

The oWoD was the system I played when I was a young adult.  It spoke to me and probably influenced a lot of my development into the person I am.  I know and accept this.  It will always have a huge space in my mindspace, even now.

But, I do think they did more than an acceptable job in updating the system and the setting.  (Besides, I think the new Changeling meshes better with the setting than the old one ever did.  But, that's my own opinion.)



Frankly, I'd just like to play any PnP game.  I haven't done that in a LONG time...

Callie Del Noire

I always felt that Changeling and the Ghost oWoD games didn't fit too well in the oWoD setting.. coming in as late as they did. Of course my Charlotte by Night game had the Wild Hunt running through the area (after the Tremere tried to use them to leverage the three elders in the city out of power, backfired BADLY).

Nothing worse than the Malk in the group feeding on a faerie. For two terrifying days his character was SANE. Which was bad given the better part of a century as a vampire..

Braioch

I wonder if it'd be possible to set up an oWoD game via Mumble o.O
I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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Black Howling

Quote from: Braioch on June 30, 2011, 05:10:22 PM
I wonder if it'd be possible to set up an oWoD game via Mumble o.O
More then a few people on E have mentioned that system games via mumble work out decently. So I'd say it's probably true.

Oniya

Y'all are sorely tempting me to get a headphone/mic setup.

Just saying.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Braioch

I'd be extremely interested in doing so, so long as there was a GM willing as well...

-ponders-
I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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HairyHeretic

I've been running L5R on mumble for a few weeks now. I use the dice roller on E. It's working out fine so far.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Braioch

Which means gathering interest, deciding on what to play and finding a willing GM and players....
I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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Callie Del Noire


kairotox

Quote from: rhev on May 26, 2011, 09:41:57 AM
I'd love to find a group that could get into a Serenity RPG.  (captain mal ftw)
I have several different items for it! I have the main book explaining all the rules, and the game master's screen, and 2 info books on stuff that goes on in the serenity universe. Maybe, if i get accepted in, we could do a play-through online?

DarklingAlice

Quote from: Oniya on June 29, 2011, 01:51:51 PM
As I've never picked up the books, I haven't seen the rest of the changes.  I never hit nWoD because (in my opinion) oWoD wasn't 'broken'.  Hence, no need to get a whole new set of books.

This pretty much mirrors my mindset, with two exceptions:
1. The generic stuff released for nWOD is surprisingly quite playable: starting you off with human mechanics (which can be used nicely for any type of horror from classic ghost stories to Lovecraft) was actually a pretty interesting idea.

2. Geist. Oh I love Geist so much. It is like several things in the oWOD (most notable Demon and Wraith), but it also really stands out as something new and fascinating. If you are going to do a new World of Darkness actually give us something new instead of just rehashing vampires and werewolves. And Geist is proof that they can do that, but just aren't...
For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong.


Braioch

Finally went through and made a thread for the non-forum area ::)

Decided to stick with Masquerade, Apocalypse and Kindred of the East. Even have a character for the first two as they seem the most likely. Not too many people have really read KotE so far as I can tell.
I'm also on Discord (like, all the time), so feel free to ask about that if you want

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Genbu83


Callie Del Noire


Polymorph

I'm trying to imagine my old roleplaying groups faces if I'd suggested playing a campaign with these rules and setting.



HairyHeretic

Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Polymorph


MasterMischief


TheGlyphstone


MasterMischief


slowmojoe

Has anyone played or GM'ed using the Stargate RPG system? Is it any good? I miss Thor a lot.


TheGlyphstone

Quote from: MasterMischief on July 06, 2011, 08:43:49 PM

...or just about any role playing game GMed by a 13 year old male.

No, the average 13 year old male is more mature than the stuff you'll find in FATAL.

DarklingAlice

Bliss Stage. I don't see any way to get my normal RL group to sit down and try Bliss Stage. I think the interesting mechanics and cool play style would be completely eclipsed by awkwardness and immaturity.
For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong.


Kazyth

Lets see.  Scion, Changeling, Earthdawn (played it years and years ago, and still love the setting), and probably Cyberpunk.  Oh, and oWoD Demon, which was an awesome game with a lot of promise that hit just before they nuked oWoD.
A rose by any other name... still has thorns you can prick someone with. - Me.


DarklingAlice

Quote from: Kazyth on August 07, 2011, 10:38:02 AM
Lets see.  Scion, Changeling, Earthdawn (played it years and years ago, and still love the setting), and probably Cyberpunk.  Oh, and oWoD Demon, which was an awesome game with a lot of promise that hit just before they nuked oWoD.

Ditto to Demon. I just got the book and players guide a few weeks ago and it looks fascinating.
For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong.


Kazyth

Quote from: DarklingAlice on August 07, 2011, 10:45:07 AM
Ditto to Demon. I just got the book and players guide a few weeks ago and it looks fascinating.

It really was.  I was in a short-run game of it years ago, and I really enjoyed it.  I liked the backstory, the mechanics, and the storyline opportunities.  I just never really got to explore them.
A rose by any other name... still has thorns you can prick someone with. - Me.


Empyrean

Scion, Eclipse Phase, and Legend of the Five Rings primarily. Possibly Witch Girl Adventures, just for the hell of it and because I recall reading some lengthy debates on the dangers of giving kids magical powers once.

Thufir Hawat

I honestly doubt there is anything my group wouldn't want to try, unless we consider it to be a poor system or setting. Pendragon, Eclipse Phase, Unknown Armies, Reign, and quite a few others are games we all like, and we can be persuaded to try almost anything at least once :P.
What's more, there are 4 GMs, myself included, and many of them are willing to even run a game once they've decided they like it enough >:)!
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Callie Del Noire

Guess what showed up in my email today.. a link to a free version of the Vampire: 20th edition since I pre-ordered!


Black Howling

Updating my list, as it has continued to grow.

Mutants and Masterminds
Rifts
Palladium
BESM
Dresden Files
Hero System
The Unisystem (Witchcraft in particular)
Geist: The Sineater
Werewolf: The Forsaken (Played a couple of times, but never got as far as I'd like. My homegroup aren't into lycanthropes)

All I can thank of for now.

Thufir Hawat

Just being curious here, but why do you want to try Palladium and Rifts?
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Black Howling

Quote from: Thufir Hawat on September 24, 2011, 05:25:54 AM
Just being curious here, but why do you want to try Palladium and Rifts?
I'm not certain. They were talked up by a couple internet friends of mine, and so I got my hands on a PDF for rifts which seemed somewhat interesting. Same with Palladium, and after I read through a game, I like to try it out to have a more clear opinion of it.

Not sure if it'd be any good, they both are d20 3rd edition based after all, but it'd be worth a try if it turned out to be something fun.

Callie Del Noire

Still want very much to try out an Eclipse Phase game or a CthulhuTech game

Black Howling

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on September 24, 2011, 12:58:59 PM
Still want very much to try out an Eclipse Phase game or a CthulhuTech game
I was interested in CthulhuTech, until I watched a game a friend of mine was playing in. It was just, surprisingly unsavory for my tastes. Perhaps I'll meet someone that plays better in the future and will be willing to give it another go.

Thufir Hawat

Quote from: Black Howling on September 24, 2011, 11:48:19 AM
I'm not certain. They were talked up by a couple internet friends of mine, and so I got my hands on a PDF for rifts which seemed somewhat interesting. Same with Palladium, and after I read through a game, I like to try it out to have a more clear opinion of it.

Not sure if it'd be any good, they both are d20 3rd edition based after all, but it'd be worth a try if it turned out to be something fun.
Actually, I'm pretty sure they predate d20 3e by a decade or two. Also, AFAIK, their age shows ;).
Still, curiosity is a pretty valid reason to try it, and even if it ends with a trainwreck campaign, you can at least laugh at the memory ;D!
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Callie Del Noire

Yeah.. the Palladium system goes back to the 80s.. TMNT and Palladium Fantasy were among the first ones that they put out. Then Robotech (which is where I started) and from there they revamped their system and then RIFTS in the late 80s. So they predate d20 by a little.

Black Howling

Quote from: Thufir Hawat on September 24, 2011, 02:23:06 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure they predate d20 3e by a decade or two. Also, AFAIK, their age shows ;).
Still, curiosity is a pretty valid reason to try it, and even if it ends with a trainwreck campaign, you can at least laugh at the memory ;D!
Kinda how I figured it. And does the age show in a good or bad way? Also, it looks like you might be right since Palladium is popping on a web search as being based off AD&D second edition. So, my friend was completely wrong. >_> Not even sure if that web check was correct or not.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Black Howling on September 24, 2011, 02:30:13 PM
Kinda how I figured it. And does the age show in a good or bad way? Also, it looks like you might be right since Palladium is popping on a web search as being based off AD&D second edition. So, my friend was completely wrong. >_> Not even sure if that web check was correct or not.

It's.. sorta kinda related. The attributes were a LOT more wide open and the mechanics while similar aren't the same. I had fun with it but god above does it milk for min/max in some ares.

I remember one pair of PCs me and a bud made up. The battling bronto brothers.. mutant brontosaurus baseball players.. So big they could hit a midfield ball and be on second base while still tagging first base. :D


Oniya

With the right group, even AD&D 2e can be a rollicking good time.  If you've got min-maxers and rules-lawyers, any game can be turned into a grind.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Oniya on September 24, 2011, 03:46:06 PM
With the right group, even AD&D 2e can be a rollicking good time.  If you've got min-maxers and rules-lawyers, any game can be turned into a grind.

Are you kidding.. I had a BLAST with 2e. I was playing a 'bard' before 3e came out. A half-elf triple class.. Fighter/Mage/Cleric of Finder.. Kyrie was a blast of fun. Not the best at anything but very flexible. She was possibly one of the best characters I ever played.

Oniya

And I'm betting you had a good group.  Don't get me wrong - I never bought anything past AD&D 2e, but I hear a lot of people gripe about it.  We had an awesome group, though, and the one rules-lawyer quickly learned that she should just take a chill-pill.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

HairyHeretic

Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Black Howling


dakabn


MasterMischief

Quote from: HairyHeretic on September 26, 2011, 04:30:41 PM
The right group can make or break any game.

I am too much of a system snob.  Excessive perceived flaws ruin game flow for me.  I keep thinking this would be so much better in [Game X].

Callie Del Noire

I really would like to play a game of Eclipse Phase but it doesn't seem to be.. the last five games that have come up on RPOL, 3 imploded during start up (didn't even get to make a character per se in one) and the other two I never got a response back from the GMs. Sigh.

meikle

Quote from: MasterMischief on September 28, 2011, 01:09:54 PM
I am too much of a system snob.  Excessive perceived flaws ruin game flow for me.  I keep thinking this would be so much better in [Game X].

I don't know if it's really snobbery.  I play PnPs as much for the system as for anything else.  If I didn't care about the system, I wouldn't use one at all. :p
Kiss your lover with that filthy mouth, you fuckin' monster.

O and O and Discord
A and A

ChaoticSky


MasterMischief

Quote from: meikle on September 28, 2011, 01:36:40 PM
I don't know if it's really snobbery.  I play PnPs as much for the system as for anything else.  If I didn't care about the system, I wouldn't use one at all. :p

You know...we seem to have a similar RP temperment.  I am thinking we should do a game.

meikle

My efforts to do system games on Elliquiy have fallen flatter than flat.
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MasterMischief


meikle

Quote from: dakabn on September 28, 2011, 02:56:23 PM
There's ways to do it outside of E.... ;) Map sites, etc...

There certainly are!  Most of my gaming doesn't happen on Elliquiy (if it did, I imagine I'd never play anything! :p)

But I was responding to MasterMischief mostly -- the population of people on Elliquiy who are interested in the kind of games I'd run seems to be staggeringly low (and I'm not really sure why that is, but c'est la vie.)
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Plot Hooks

Meikle, I've had a simlar experience with E.    E really isn't set up mechanically for system games either, at least in terms of groups.    I wish it had some of RPOL's features to facilitate that sort of thing.

My list?
Wraith: The Oblivion is my favorite RPG that I've never played.
Nobolis
In a wicked age.
Iron Kingdoms
Cthulutech
Midnight (whose modules I have actually run in an Exalted game with a little tweaking)
"Cut me down or let me run.  Either way it's all gonna burn." - Joe (The Protomen)

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meikle

I'd love to play or run Wraith, too.  I mean, it grinds on me a lot of the time -- there's only so much patience I have for starting chapters off with Nine Inch Nails lyrics, for example -- but I love the idea behind it.  Unfortunately, back when I had a group that was actually interested in the World of Darkness, they all had complaints about Wraith -- "it's too depressing" was a big one, and "I don't want someone else playing my character!" was another (regarding the specter? part of every character that is played by someone else.)

Bummer, because those parts were why I liked it.
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Plot Hooks

Yea, same here!

Re: the nWoD stuff...

1.) I didn't know that there was an intellectual property thing between old owners.   As far as I can tell, the old guys still own it.

2.) System wise, I respect the new WoD.   It seems pretty solid and well suited for the types of stories that it wants to tell.   This is in comparison to say, Exalted, whose mechanical failures I could rail on about for pages.    That said, I will forever hate the nWoD with THE BRIGHT RADIOACTIVE FURY OF A THOUSAND GREEN HATE-FILLED SUNS!!!!!! for their treatment of Mage.   

Mage Is possibly my favoritest(tm) game of all time.  It was deep and tackled descartian conundrums head on while boasting interesting antagonists whose motivations were sensible, and whom I would probably side with in RL.  Maybe.   It was about the innate power of the individual to change the world, if only she could display the proper force of will.   I loved the theams of clashing ideals and belief and all that entails.


nWoD Mage gave me a bunch of special people who were granted powers by mystical light-houses in Atlantis.  I can't even really remember who the antagonist is, it was so bland.  After I had read through my eagerly awaited Mage book, I nearly calcified from banality on the spot. 

I had expected better.   Vampire got a decent new treatment, IMO.   It had many elements of the old, with enough new stuff and rearrangement that it was both familiar and exciting.

Mage: The Awakening took away everything that was familiar and gave me a big bowl of feces in its place.
"Cut me down or let me run.  Either way it's all gonna burn." - Joe (The Protomen)

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Callie Del Noire

PH,

Don't feel bad.. I've yet to meet ANYONE who really had fun with the old Mage that likes the new one. I've seen folks who enjoyed both versions of vampire and werewolf but not anyone I can think of who likes both versions of Mage. The whole paradigm of the first one was so fun.

You could respect the Technos for their goals. Protect Reality from the Nephandi and Maruaders.. but it's a case of sometimes having to burn the village to save it in their approach. One of my players had a few contacts with the Technos.. their deals and meetings came across as a pair of spies in old Cold War Berlin meeting each other on a park and giving them info. Sometimes they would be doing it to show the rot in the organization they worked for, other times it might be to put the other side at a disadvantage. You never knew.

Plot Hooks

It's kinda hard to top oMage.

I have been told that nMage can be fun, and that they've since done a lot to remedy the setting.   However, it took 2 complete supplements in addition to the corebook and the WoD core, so that's way too much buy in, waaay too late, after being burned way too bad.
"Cut me down or let me run.  Either way it's all gonna burn." - Joe (The Protomen)

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meikle

I've had a lot of trouble taking the old world of darkness seriously in a lot of cases -- Mage and Werewolf were a big part of that, because of how strongly they villified progress and technology.
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Plot Hooks

Werewolf certainly did that.

Mage not so much.  Two of the traditions were completely about technology.    What it did vilify was the 'there is only one true way' style of thinking that has almost always been present in society, and the trends towards facism that western society was/is leaning towards.
"Cut me down or let me run.  Either way it's all gonna burn." - Joe (The Protomen)

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Callie Del Noire

Quote from: meikle on September 28, 2011, 06:03:52 PM
I've had a lot of trouble taking the old world of darkness seriously in a lot of cases -- Mage and Werewolf were a big part of that, because of how strongly they villified progress and technology.

For that it would come down to what the GM wants to do with it. I know my Mage game had two Order mages who used tech to help them out. (Cutting edge flatpanel to draw their sigils and such), a Rogue HiTMark (acutally an Orphan with a couple 'implants, actually talismans) and a virtual adept.

The rogue was the one that killed the T-Rex at the end of my old game. (A five dot talisman.. a MAJOR forces weapon/Rail gun)

Plot Hooks

I never got to play my verbena hacker, who worked his magic through strange animalistic rituals performed on his hardware, such as throwing blood-sacrifices into the sharpened whirling blades of his CPU fan.

(I spent five years recovering from surgery, but it was worth it...    I got these super-circuits.   Synthetic Saliva... Biogenetic tounge drivers with inertia... Endurance booster implants designed to hurt ya!)
"Cut me down or let me run.  Either way it's all gonna burn." - Joe (The Protomen)

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meikle

Quote from: Plot Hooks on September 28, 2011, 06:07:05 PMMage not so much.  Two of the traditions were completely about technology.    What it did vilify was the 'there is only one true way' style of thinking that has almost always been present in society, and the trends towards facism that western society was/is leaning towards.
By superimposing those complaints against scientists.

It reminds me of that stupid Miracles song.  I don't wanna talk to a scientist!

I guess it's the right way to go in oMage, though, because the scientific method doesn't really function in a world where your results change based on what people think should happen.
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Plot Hooks

Again, I have to defend the Virtual Adepts and Sons of Ether.   Those guys were scientists as well, certainly no less so than anyone in the technocracy.  It's just that their ideas of science lead to decentralized power that was not easy to control, which put them at odds with the Technocratic Union.    And the Order of Reason wasn't uniform.   Big hunks of it were mafia and Illuminai types that controlled government agencies.   

I will give you that you could be left with the impression 'Science is Bad' from giving the book a quick once over.   However, I'm not sure I'd rank it on the same tier as Werewolf, which I too had trouble taking seriously.
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meikle

Werewolf was maybe more overt (the weaver is everywhere!  corporations turn you into a monster!), but I think that the decision to superimpose fascism over a conglomerate of scientists -- as opposed to, say, something more traditionally despotic -- is an important thing to consider.

It doesn't help that in the process, they're making the Technocracy wrong -- not just the people who want to edge everyone out, but the people who want to edge everyone out and also who are wrong about the universe (ie, science is wrong.)

Unfortunately, this means that Virtual Adepts and Sons of Ether, insofar as they treat technology as the result of scientific process and not just fancier talismans, are also wrong: science doesn't (or rather, can't) exist* in a world with consensus reality.  They're just aligning themselves more closely with the winning team (that is, they play friendlier with consensus.)

* Arguably, you could make the case that there might be science regarding how consensus reality works ... unless that quality is open to modification by consensus as well, and I don't know how that's handled by Mage.

edit: I'm not arguing that mage is bad.  I love the way it handles magic.  I just hate that the bad guys are a bunch of scientists.
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Callie Del Noire

It depends on the bad guy of the campaign.. mine were the Nephandi.. the Technoarchy were more 'guys in power armor/men in black' types than evil scientists.

I used the Syndicate and Men In Black more than anything else. And they weren't science types.. with a bit of 'fire support' from the Interation Xers for the 'super-tech' feel.

The hinge point was that everyone was wanting to stop the resurrection of a centuries dead Nephandi lich..

He got to live for all of five seconds..then the building collapsed on him as the reality storm that a four way battle for the local reality of downtown Charlotte fell apart. It was messy, nasty, underhanded and not many folks from ANY group walked away.

Plot Hooks

Yea, same here.   I always came away thinking of the technocracy not as scientists, but as an apparatus that happened to use technology as it's primary tool in subjugation.  Ie: Men in Black, Suited Mafia, and drugged-up super soldiers.   I also came away thinking that the technocrats were fundemetally right:   Magic is dangerous and can't go unregulated, lest they invite destructive forces on all of humanity.

That said, there is a strong anti-corporate, anti-monolithic-western-culture vibe going on, and that technology and science are tetramount to religion inthat culture.

But that's the beauty of Mage.   It is made abundantly clear that neither side is completely right or wrong, save for the Nephandi. 

Now, take all of this with a grain of salt and please realize that I probably have a skewed view of the game.   I had full buy-in with Mage from day one.   The first time I encountered the game, I spent a three day bender reading every supplement I could get my hands on.  I absorbed the game in an unhealthily fanatic way.  I have almost zero experience from the perspective of someone who just read the core-book and one or two supplements.  It is conceivable that someone less excited about the game could have a different and entirely correct and valid interpretation of the game.  It is almost definitely a YMMV deal.  After all, look at how I feel about nMage based on the core and a few supplements. 
"Cut me down or let me run.  Either way it's all gonna burn." - Joe (The Protomen)

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Black Howling

Wow, old werewolf sounds less appealing now... I never played myself, though glad new werewolf doesn't have the weird technocracy crap. At-least, not in it's base form without variant and optional supplements to the setting/game.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Black Howling on September 28, 2011, 09:24:23 PM
Wow, old werewolf sounds less appealing now... I never played myself, though glad new werewolf doesn't have the weird technocracy crap. At-least, not in it's base form without variant and optional supplements to the setting/game.

It did.. sorta.. there was a company.. Pentex I think, which was the 'big bad technology/industry' stereotype but not to the degree the Technocrats could be seen if played from certain ways.

Black Howling

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on September 28, 2011, 09:35:02 PM
It did.. sorta.. there was a company.. Pentex I think, which was the 'big bad technology/industry' stereotype but not to the degree the Technocrats could be seen if played from certain ways.
I haven't heard of it honestly, but again; I haven't read past the core and two supplements. Honestly, white wolfs supplements give very little other then plot seeds usually. So I don't bother with them all too much. Well, except on Exalted; but that's because each different Exalted had their own book. -_-

meikle

Quote from: Black Howling on September 28, 2011, 09:24:23 PM
Wow, old werewolf sounds less appealing now... I never played myself, though glad new werewolf doesn't have the weird technocracy crap. At-least, not in it's base form without variant and optional supplements to the setting/game.

Werewolf doesn't have the Technocracy (that's a Mage thing); instead, it gets EVERYTHING MODERN IS EMPOWERING THE MADDENED FORCE OF STASIS!!! and CORPORATIONS ARE OUT TO TURN YOUR CHILDREN INTO MONSTERS and etc.

Werewolf also gets the Ratkin supplement, which is my favorite bit of any old world of darkness bit (because the PC options are all so contemptible that the fact that they're trying to blow up modern civilization doesn't annoy me quite as much.)
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Black Howling

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 01:05:16 PM
Werewolf doesn't have the Technocracy (that's a Mage thing); instead, it gets EVERYTHING MODERN IS EMPOWERING THE MADDENED FORCE OF STASIS!!! and CORPORATIONS ARE OUT TO TURN YOUR CHILDREN INTO MONSTERS and etc.

Werewolf also gets the Ratkin supplement, which is my favorite bit of any old world of darkness bit (because the PC options are all so contemptible that the fact that they're trying to blow up modern civilization doesn't annoy me quite as much.)
Ok, then glad new werewolf didn't inherit that too badly... Damn, OWoD sounds a little suffocating now.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Black Howling on September 29, 2011, 01:08:45 PM
Ok, then glad new werewolf didn't inherit that too badly... Damn, OWoD sounds a little suffocating now.

Not really.. you could set the tone of your own games pretty good. :D
My vampire game was about city politics and a centuries old feud between a Giovanni Elder, his 'illegitimate' Childe (technically a Caitiff, but how many 8th Gen Caitiff are there) with a good side war of the Tremere chantry wanting both their grimoires.

Add in small things like the Sabbat trying to make an incursion, a 'small' invasion of redcaps (my own make based on the ones in Matt Wagner's Mage) and a few other things.

Black Howling

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on September 29, 2011, 01:23:10 PM
Not really.. you could set the tone of your own games pretty good. :D
My vampire game was about city politics and a centuries old feud between a Giovanni Elder, his 'illegitimate' Childe (technically a Caitiff, but how many 8th Gen Caitiff are there) with a good side war of the Tremere chantry wanting both their grimoires.

Add in small things like the Sabbat trying to make an incursion, a 'small' invasion of redcaps (my own make based on the ones in Matt Wagner's Mage) and a few other things.
So, just one of those things that sounds suffocating when you think to hard or aren't creative enough? Like Exalted's setting.

meikle

World of Darkness still seems stifling to me.

I mean, the default assumption of the game seems to be, to take Callie's example, that all of those kinds of things are going on ... and the PCs are playing 13th generation nobodies that can't meaningfully confront any of the major characters in the events unfolding.

Even the CRPG, Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines: Colons had this whole thing going on; the game was excellent, but the entire plot could be summarized as "sucks to be you, newbie."

There's one scene where you're dealing with the vampire in charge of the city.  If you try to tell him you're not willing to work with him, he literally just mind controls you so that all of your responses to his command are agreement.

That scene basically summarizes the old World of Darkness in my mind.
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Callie Del Noire

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 01:53:29 PM
World of Darkness still seems stifling to me.

I mean, the default assumption of the game seems to be, to take Callie's example, that all of those kinds of things are going on ... and the PCs are playing 13th generation nobodies that can't meaningfully confront any of the major characters in the events unfolding.

Even the CRPG, Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines: Colons had this whole thing going on; the game was excellent, but the entire plot could be summarized as "sucks to be you, newbie."

There's one scene where you're dealing with the vampire in charge of the city.  If you try to tell him you're not willing to work with him, he literally just mind controls you so that all of your responses to his command are agreement.

That scene basically summarizes the old World of Darkness in my mind.

Actually in my game the players weren't 13th gen nobodies, even the 13th gen folks.

We had a setite who was all about building up a network of contacts..she pulled it off. Started with the morgue and had a trio of ghouls in the morgue, blackmailed the new chief of police and hijacked the local bloodbank from one of the Brujah elders.. (actually she set up a new one and undercut the elders)

One of the players wound up being the 'Sheriff' of the city, after he killed the prior one when it turned out he was backing a Sabbat attempt to take the city. Another wound up being her Elder's rep in the city, after the current rep showed his true colors and ran during the same event.

The trick with Vampire is put the players in a spot where they can succeed as well.. then slowly reveal that the 'win' might not be as big as they thought.. or puts them in a position they have to defend.

The Gangrel wound up being the 'go to guy' for territorial beefs (Sheriff), the Setite had to make deals to keep her growing network (as well as stab her sire in the back during the Sabbat event to keep them for herself), The Toredor wound up having to spend more time in Elysium and learning what a roaring bitch the elder could be. (She was a prima dona of epic proportions) and the Catiff of the group had to defend his territory from a trio of Brujah Anarchs. (He was given six blocks around his dojo)

meikle

Just because you run your game contrary to what the game assumes doesn't change the assumption. :p

I didn't mean to imply that your game followed that outline; just that the game itself seems to assume that given your outline, the PCs would be characters who are not very important.  It does this by assuming that PCs will be fresh vampires in locations that are already established (like Chicago.)

If you're playing in, say, Chicago, the only way a 13th generation, freshly-turned character is going to become Sheriff is if the game is intentionally twisted in favor of that happening.

Anyone can deviate from the game's assumptions, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But the way the game presents itself is the basis of my criticism.
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Not all of the Shifting Races were 'Tech bad!'  You had the Glass-Walkers, who were tech-friendly Garou, and the Corvids seemed to get along pretty well with modern civilization.

I tended to see the oWoD setting as sort of a Mafia-type world:  Yes, there were the 'dons' that were beyond your ability to influence, but you still have a whole network of underlings (like you) that you can exert influence on, call hits on, cut deals with, and so on.
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Callie Del Noire

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 02:18:51 PM
Just because you run your game contrary to what the game assumes doesn't change the assumption. :p

I didn't mean to imply that your game followed that outline; just that the game itself seems to assume that given your outline, the PCs would be characters who are not very important.  It does this by assuming that PCs will be fresh vampires in locations that are already established (like Chicago.)

If you're playing in, say, Chicago, the only way a 13th generation, freshly-turned character is going to become Sheriff is if the game is intentionally twisted in favor of that happening.

Anyone can deviate from the game's assumptions, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But the way the game presents itself is the basis of my criticism.


Uh..the 13th Gen wasn't the Sherrif, he was a 9th gen Gangrel (with a century of life) and the stuff they put in the storyteller's book was easily summed up by this. It's your world.. play it your way.

If the players don't have fun, in whatever way they can, you'll not be playing it long. I made the players invest in the game and by doing so, they had fun. If it's not fun..why play.


meikle

Right, I'm not going to engage "change what you want to make it fun", because that's obvious and also not a very useful point -- I'm not arguing that you can't change things to make your game work for you.  I'm arguing that the setting presented by the VtM books -- the setting where the default character is not a 100 year old, 9th generatio  gangrel but a <1 year old 13th generation whatever -- is a stifling one.

Yes, you can ignore the parts that make it stifling.  That doesn't mean they're not stifling, it just means you're ignoring them.

edit: but if I wanted to play a game that didn't use the normal setting assumptions, I'd probably just use VTR.  I like it better. :p
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Black Howling

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 02:33:48 PM
Right, I'm not going to engage "change what you want to make it fun", because that's obvious and also not a very useful point -- I'm not arguing that you can't change things to make your game work for you.  I'm arguing that the setting presented by the VtM books -- the setting where the default character is not a 100 year old, 9th generatio  gangrel but a <1 year old 13th generation whatever -- is a stifling one.

Yes, you can ignore the parts that make it stifling.  That doesn't mean they're not stifling, it just means you're ignoring them.

edit: but if I wanted to play a game that didn't use the normal setting assumptions, I'd probably just use VTR.  I like it better. :p
So your issue with VTM is most people's issue(beyond the mechanics)with Exalted. How the base assumption is "you are a newly exalted Solar who will try to stay under the wyld hunt radar, while you bolster your strength to change the world' ideal. I can't count how many people I've heard gripe about essential enemies, and how it quickly turns into to this.

"I challenge you, Dark Lord of the yellow Sign." "Oh really now?" Proceeds to join battle, and then starts off with 'Newb pwning prana' and then finishes with 'it'll take you a thousand years to comprehend this attack' combo "What was that again?"

If that's similar to the stifling you speak of, then I think a lot of people would share your view.

PS: And the comment about VTR is a little unwarranted besides as a preference, as the base setting for NWOD is very different, mainly because it's made to flex to the needs of the players(ST included). Which is likely why the setting is seen as so inferior, it has less detail to it because of this.

Plot Hooks

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meikle

Quote from: Plot Hooks on September 29, 2011, 03:04:22 PM
Couldn't you buy up your Gen at character creation?
You could, but generation without experience wasn't a major benefit except at the highest point (I think 8th was the highest it goes at chargen, and that's when you can use 2 blood points per turn.)

Quote"I challenge you, Dark Lord of the yellow Sign." "Oh really now?" Proceeds to join battle, and then starts off with 'Newb pwning prana' and then finishes with 'it'll take you a thousand years to comprehend this attack' combo "What was that again?"

Essentially, except it's not hard to make a fairly defensively competent Solar at character creation.  It's more not really possible to make a starting Vampire who can survive against someone with a century worth of XP (especially when you have things like Dominate, where if you don't want to buy 5 dots of Generation, you have no real defensive recourse, or where someone with 4 dots of Celerity just gets to an extra action on top of you ever turn, etc etc).  VtM has absolutely no interest in presenting a game with anything resembling mechanical balance -- and I know that's why some people love it, but I don't like it too much. :p

QuotePS: And the comment about VTR is a little unwarranted besides as a preference, as the base setting for NWOD is very different, mainly because it's made to flex to the needs of the players(ST included). Which is likely why the setting is seen as so inferior, it has less detail to it because of this.

That's actually my point: if I wanted to play a vampire game and I wasn't going to be playing it explicitly for the setting portrayed in VtM, I wouldn't use VtM at all.  I'd use VtR: I like the setting and the system better.
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Black Howling

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 03:08:26 PM
You could, but generation without experience wasn't a major benefit except at the highest point (I think 8th was the highest it goes at chargen, and that's when you can use 2 blood points per turn.)

Essentially, except it's not hard to make a fairly defensively competent Solar at character creation.  It's more not really possible to make a starting Vampire who can survive against someone with a century worth of XP.

That's actually my point: if I wanted to play a vampire game and I wasn't going to be playing it explicitly for the setting portrayed in VtM, I wouldn't use VtM at all.  I'd use VtR: I like the setting and the system better.
Yeah, but try to make a solar who can stand up against someone with 500+ centuries. As such dragonblooded and sidereals are abundant. It's storyteller dependent at that point, much as I imagine it would be in VTM; except to a little larger scale. Since, you know, Exalts can range in the thousands.
With the exception of Dragon Blooded.

meikle

I think you and I have had this argument before, though -- at the very least, an Exalt with a perfect defense + surprise negator will last ten rounds or so and have an opportunity to defend themself or find a way out (even if it's going to go one way or another int he end).  Not so much with vampire.
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Black Howling

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 03:14:13 PM
I think you and I have had this argument before, though -- at the very least, an Exalt with a perfect defense + surprise negator will last ten rounds or so and have an opportunity to defend themself or find a way out (even if it's going to go one way or another int he end).  Not so much with vampire.
I also think the word 'argument' is why you tended to take the discussion too seriously then. Argument implies someone is not only disagreeing, but is upset about it. Debating would be the term I would prefer. I also mentioned that it seemed the same, though on a larger scale considering power level ratio, on VTM. So I fail to see how your reasoning that they'd make it for a few ticks is relevant, as I already mentioned the varying degrees.

Plot Hooks

The thing abOut the Exalted argument is that I can build a starting character who could kick the ass of anything short if an Essence 7 lunar elder.   In RPG terms, that's hardly stifling, considering most starting characters in the majority of other systems can be killed by a dude with a pocket knife.
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Black Howling

Quote from: Plot Hooks on September 29, 2011, 03:22:02 PM
The thing abOut the Exalted argument is that I can build a starting character who could kick the ass of anything short if an Essence 7 lunar elder.   In RPG terms, that's hardly stifling, considering most starting characters in the majority of other systems can be killed by a dude with a pocket knife.
I suppose you could say that, but I've never seen it happen. This may not strike you as a good excuse, but I don't use the predetermined characters in the book. And I've also seen 'big exalted builds' get killed at starting level way too easily, typically because they thought they were too strong to be careful. Statistically speaking, you must have been fighting very poorly built NPC's. I've never seen anyone defeat any challenge i presented without expending massive resources of motes, and being close to death. Assuming it was suppose to be a tough fight anyhow. And my players min max for combat.

Callie Del Noire

Well I had 'fights' with the PCs and Elders.. Nicholas Giovanni was one of them.. having a 7th gen Giovanni show up to claim one of the player's herd (she had 'tasty blood') ended badly. The Sheriff unloaded a double barrel of dimes into him..they ran.. wound up parking one of the player's mini-van on his chest.

Then they met Nicholas' enforcer. Augustus the Gargolye. That was a nasty fight.. he opened up by pulling up a man hole cover, not just the lid.. the entire metal fixture and threw it at them.

The trick is in a game with elders isnt' to leave the characters in a corner.. just like when you're playing Mage (or any storyteller game) is to set things up so when they are facing a superior foe to not make it totally impossible for them to win/flee. You would be surprised how creative the players can be when after dropping a 7th gen elder with one shotgun blast to see his 'grunt' brush off 2 bucks in silver dimes without a single wound.

Black Howling

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on September 29, 2011, 03:29:48 PM
Well I had 'fights' with the PCs and Elders.. Nicholas Giovanni was one of them.. having a 7th gen Giovanni show up to claim one of the player's herd (she had 'tasty blood') ended badly. The Sheriff unloaded a double barrel of dimes into him..they ran.. wound up parking one of the player's mini-van on his chest.

Then they met Nicholas' enforcer. Augustus the Gargolye. That was a nasty fight.. he opened up by pulling up a man hole cover, not just the lid.. the entire metal fixture and threw it at them.

The trick is in a game with elders isnt' to leave the characters in a corner.. just like when you're playing Mage (or any storyteller game) is to set things up so when they are facing a superior foe to not make it totally impossible for them to win/flee. You would be surprised how creative the players can be when after dropping a 7th gen elder with one shotgun blast to see his 'grunt' brush off 2 bucks in silver dimes without a single wound.
Kinda my entire point.

meikle

Quote from: Black Howling on September 29, 2011, 03:18:44 PM
I also think the word 'argument' is why you tended to take the discussion too seriously then. Argument implies someone is not only disagreeing, but is upset about it. Debating would be the term I would prefer. I also mentioned that it seemed the same, though on a larger scale considering power level ratio, on VTM. So I fail to see how your reasoning that they'd make it for a few ticks is relevant, as I already mentioned the varying degrees.

QuoteIn philosophy and logic, an argument is an attempt to persuade someone of something, by giving reasons or evidence for accepting a particular conclusion.

I take things too seriously when someone tells me that I "take things too seriously".

I can provide more support for my argument, however: VtM assumes that the default game takes place in a Camarilla-held city.  Sabbat and Neutral games are more 'advanced', if that makes sense, covered in supplements.  This means that VtM assumes that my fresh, incompetent character will be surrounded by people who are far more capable and have a vested interest in ensuring that my character is not able to succeed (because if my character is successful, she becomes competition in the city.)

Exalted does not assume that my Solar character starts in a place that has a heavy Exalted population -- quite the opposite, in fact, because there are no places with 'heavy Exalted populations', except the Blessed Isle -- and the only group of Exalted who have an active interest in murdering my character are the ones who are least suited to accomplishing it.
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Black Howling

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 03:34:05 PM
I take things too seriously when someone tells me that I "take things too seriously".

I can provide more support for my argument, however: VtM assumes that the default game takes place in a Camarilla-held city.  Sabbat and Neutral games are more 'advanced', if that makes sense, covered in supplements.  This means that VtM assumes that my fresh, incompetent character will be surrounded by people who are far more capable and have a vested interest in ensuring that my character is not able to succeed (because if my character is successful, she becomes competition in the city.)

Exalted does not assume that my Solar character starts in a place that has a heavy Exalted population -- quite the opposite, in fact, because there are no places with 'heavy Exalted populations', except the Blessed Isle -- and the only group of Exalted who have an active interest in murdering my character are the ones who are least suited to accomplishing it.
Actually the default setting from the way the comics describes it, and even the core book, is the scavenger lands since it's the most thoroughly detailed and assumed. With that knowledge, I'll add that in the seventh legion alone there is over 7,000 dragon blooded and more war striders then the realm has access to. They also did not lose to the bull of the north recently, and so don't have the recent humbling the realm got; thus aren't as afraid to use them.

This also isn't my thoughts, it's the core book's and terrestrial directions 'the scavenger lands' material at work.   

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 03:34:05 PM
I take things too seriously when someone tells me that I "take things too seriously".

I can provide more support for my argument, however: VtM assumes that the default game takes place in a Camarilla-held city.  Sabbat and Neutral games are more 'advanced', if that makes sense, covered in supplements.  This means that VtM assumes that my fresh, incompetent character will be surrounded by people who are far more capable and have a vested interest in ensuring that my character is not able to succeed (because if my character is successful, she becomes competition in the city.)

Exalted does not assume that my Solar character starts in a place that has a heavy Exalted population -- quite the opposite, in fact, because there are no places with 'heavy Exalted populations', except the Blessed Isle -- and the only group of Exalted who have an active interest in murdering my character are the ones who are least suited to accomplishing it.


I always thought the Dragon-blooded were fairly skillful at killing Solars. I mean they have numbers, tactics, and when they aren't at each others throats, unity behind them.

Of course I've never had a play by post game of it last more than a month, and most implode before that so my experience in Exalted is sadly low.. to the point I got the 2nd edition core book then stopped when I had four games on RPoL literally implode in the same day with another on EnWorld going in the same week. Seemed like a waste of time after dozens of attempts to make characters to fit in.. only to have my character get booted for being 'redundant' for one reason or another.

Plot Hooks

Its pretty simple to do, given paranoia combat. With a proper paranoia suit and a 2/7 filter, your fight becomes a battle of mote attrition.  Assuming that as a player, your capitalizing on stunt rewards, you can keep up enough willpower to fuel your combos.  Anything that has more expensive perfects or no perfects is grass unless their mote pool dwarfs yours or you can't penetrate their DV. 

Also, there is no near death in exalted.  Leathality is such that, if you are playing combat optimized, any one hit will splatter molar anything.   You are either dead or not dead, unless you intentionally allow yourself injury for charm benefits.
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meikle

"The scavenger lands" is an area that covers hundreds of thousands of square miles of territory.

The Seventh Legion are not Realm dragonblooded; they are not Exalted who have a reason to want to kill a Solar just for existing.

QuoteI always thought the Dragon-blooded were fairly skillful at killing Solars. I mean they have numbers, tactics, and when they aren't at each others throats, unity behind them.

They are okay at killing Solars who haven't gotten their bearings yet.  There's a reason they send (at minimum) five capable dragon-blooded and hundreds (or thousands) of mortal soldiers after each individual Solar -- and this is for Solars that have only just Exalted.

There's a reason that it took millions of Dragon-Blooded with the backing of the Sidereal host to take out the Solar Deliberative in the First Age, after all (and that was a costly attack!)
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Also, as per cannon, the dragon blood host is only 10k strong, world wide IICR.   7th legion is mostly mortals,
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Callie Del Noire

Like I said.. after a dozen imploded attempts I gave up. It was just too disappointing.. particularly since I liked it and the Scion game.. and I've never had either last more than a day or two of actual game time.

Black Howling

Quote from: meikle on September 29, 2011, 03:46:15 PM
"The scavenger lands" is an area that covers hundreds of thousands of square miles of territory.

The Seventh Legion are not Realm dragonblooded; they are not Exalted who have a reason to want to kill a Solar just for existing.

They are okay at killing Solars who haven't gotten their bearings yet.  There's a reason they send (at minimum) five capable dragon-blooded and hundreds (or thousands) of mortal soldiers after each individual Solar -- and this is for Solars that have only just Exalted.

There's a reason that it took millions of Dragon-Blooded with the backing of the Sidereal host to take out the Solar Deliberative in the First Age, after all (and that was a costly attack!)
I love how you ignore the fact that roughly half the dragonblooded sided with the solar during the usurpation, and that all but 12 solars were wiped out in a single night. Also, how many solars were essence ten. Also, the Seventh legion is made up the same way the shogunate was originally, and thus according they hunt solars. Because it was the sidereal run shogunate that originally started it. That's stated in plain terrain, since there is currently a general of the seventh legion hunting her solar daughter.

Also, they would have killed the experienced bull of the north despite his full circle if it wasn't for Lunar's with Celestial circle sorcery intervening. This is documented in the scroll of exalts. Until you get to essence 4+, the dragonblooded are skilled at killing solars. Why do you think not many of few that weren't captured in the jade prison haven't survived. I'm using setting detail for this information, not how personal games or forums indicate it as.
Quote from: Plot Hooks on September 29, 2011, 03:48:25 PM
Also, as per cannon, the dragon blood host is only 10k strong, world wide IICR.   7th legion is mostly mortals,
Partially Wrong, the dragon blooded host is 10k strong, meaning the realm, thus the statement of the hegemony of ten thousand dragons. I've read the setting detail of every book, and find it very fascinating. And yes, mostly mortals; but a city that big isn't comprised of just 7k people.

meikle

QuoteAlso, they would have killed the experienced bull of the north despite his full circle if it wasn't for Lunar's with Celestial circle sorcery intervening. This is documented in the scroll of exalts. Until you get to essence 4+, the dragonblooded are skilled at killing solars. Why do you think not many of few that weren't captured in the jade prison haven't survived. I'm using setting detail for this information, not how personal games or forums indicate it as.

... because the Dragonblooded killed them young, with armies, and in groups?  Like I said?

I'm not interested in digging up sources to refute earlier points, but I'm going to say I'm fairly certain that the idea that the Dragonblooded got together and promptly split up and fought it out is not accurate.  The entire point of the Usurpation was that it was a surprise attack.  The Solars did not have half of the dragonblooded host arrayed to defend them.
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Plot Hooks

Quote from: Black Howling on September 29, 2011, 03:53:30 PM
I love how you ignore the fact that roughly half the dragonblooded sided with the solar during the usurpation, and that all but 12 solars were wiped out in a single night. Also, how many solars were essence ten. Also, the Seventh legion is made up the same way the shogunate was originally, and thus according they hunt solars. Because it was the sidereal run shogunate that originally started it. That's stated in plain terrain, since there is currently a general of the seventh legion hunting her solar daughter.

Where did you come up with the 'half the host joined the solars' number?     

The general you are refering to is Gens Karal.   She is not hunting her daughter, but rather judging her.   If she proves to be the hollowed out vessel for a demon, then she will  kill her daughter.   If she is convinced that her daughter is still who she was before Exaltation, she will give her support.

Lookshy is just a city with a large sphere of influence and a solid base of 1st age equipment, which lend it power.   It doesn't have the resources to hunt down Solars.   I've read that while they are Immaculates, they generally look the other way unless the Anethema causes trouble.

Quote from: Black Howling on September 29, 2011, 03:53:30 PM
Also, they would have killed the experienced bull of the north despite his full circle if it wasn't for Lunar's with Celestial circle sorcery intervening. This is documented in the scroll of exalts. Until you get to essence 4+, the dragonblooded are skilled at killing solars. Why do you think not many of few that weren't captured in the jade prison haven't survived. I'm using setting detail for this information, not how personal games or forums indicate it as. Partially Wrong, the dragon blooded host is 10k strong, meaning the realm, thus the statement of the hegemony of ten thousand dragons. I've read the setting detail of every book, and find it very fascinating. And yes, mostly mortals; but a city that big isn't comprised of just 7k people.

1.) The fluff doesn't always reflect the mechanics.  It doesn't assume Paranoia combat, which is the optimized state to play the numbers game.     With a 2/7 filter, and maximum stunting to refresh your will-power,  it becomes a game of mote attrition.   So against opponents with no Perfect defense, they win.   It becomes a game of mote attrition, so who ever has the most effecient charms wins.   Also, due to leathality, there is no 'Near' death in Exalted unless you are playing at sub-optimized levels.    Every hit becomes potentially lethal, so you really only have "Dead" or "Not Dead".   I can discuss this further with you iin detail, if you would like.

2.)  I'd like to know where you get your lookshy numbers from.  Take a second to think about what you just said.   The realm, which is twice as big as russia and has influence over 80% of creation has just 10k terrestial exalts.   But Lookshy, has 7k exalts?   Terrestials only exalt at a rate of about one for every 5-10k mortals.  with a population of only 200,000,000, you can really have an upwards maximum of 20k exalts total, so your porportions are all wrong. I imagine lookshy has like maybe a hundred exalts at most, and has a standing army of about 7k mortals to protect a population of around 120k.    I can find references to double check my math later tonight, if you like.
"Cut me down or let me run.  Either way it's all gonna burn." - Joe (The Protomen)

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Callie Del Noire

There is one point you missed Plot Hook..

Dragon-blooded don't age like normal humans..they're not as long lived as the solars.. but still, they live longer.. so that's going to throw the curve off over time.

meikle

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on September 29, 2011, 06:10:29 PM
There is one point you missed Plot Hook..

Dragon-blooded don't age like normal humans..they're not as long lived as the solars.. but still, they live longer.. so that's going to throw the curve off over time.

Well, their population was recently really decimated (and I mean that in the 'almost extincted' sense, not the 'reduced by 10%' sense.)

It's still meant to be the case that there are not a huge number of DBs compared to humans.  There's almost certainly not 7,000 of them living in a single city.
Kiss your lover with that filthy mouth, you fuckin' monster.

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Plot Hooks

The longest any dragon blooded has lived has been the Scarlett Empress, and she's 800.  That's about the same time that the great contagion occurred and wiped out 90% of *everything* that lived, dragon-blooded included.  Old dragon blooded are around 300-400 years.   Most dragon blood die through violence way before then.   The number of terrestials that reach old age has been bandied about at 1/3.    There's apparently a tremendously high turnover rate.

I was wrong, however.   I admit it!  (Make note of this.  It almost never happens on the internet.  You could probably count the times that it's happened on one hand...)

In the interest of accuracy, here's the real answer, and the sources.

Pg. 192 of Sidereals says that there's about 100 million people in each direction.    That means that there's an upper-limit of 50k dragon-blooded world wide.     

Also, there is this:

MoEP: Dragon-Blooded - page 226 

“The 761 Realm census placed the number of Dynastic Dragon-Blooded in the Realm (included lost eggs adopted to Great Houses) near 10,000. This might be as many as half the entire world’s population of Terrestrial Exalted, and the world knows that it’s there.“

So we basically have contradictory numbers.   MOEP: Sidereals combined with rough calculation numbers puts the upper limit at 50k, while MOEP: Dragon-blooded places the upper limit at 20k.

Those are the canonical numbers you have to work with, and I would tend to lean towards the 20k, since it is derived most directly and it fits into my view of creation as a greatly diminished world.

This still places the number of Dragon-blooded contained in a single city-state to something less than 7k, since the entire direction should only have around 10k as it's upper most limit.   Granted, lookshy does have about 1 terrestrial exalt per 100 people, we're talking of a population that is generously estimated around 120k, that would give you around 1,200 exalts.  The numbers I've seen bandied around by developers after doing a quick google search suggest that there's 500-700 exalts in Lookshy, which would place Lookshy's population at around 70,000 or so, which seems right.
"Cut me down or let me run.  Either way it's all gonna burn." - Joe (The Protomen)

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TentacleFan

On the topic of RPG's I'd want to try but doubt I'd get my group to go for, I must be pretty lucky as my group I think would be down for almost anything. As long as the person stepping up to run it was enthused enough to set it up everybody else would get on board. Regardless of system or setting.
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roleplayinggrl18

The games I would love to play or GM are:

Wild talents: Keberos Club; Victorian era superheroes

Burning Wheel

Legend

And it seems like there is another popping in my head every day, so that is by no means exhaustive.

Chris Brady

A game called Runeslayers, also Runequest Slayers, an old, aborted version of the venerable Runequest series of games.  I have all the 'books' on PDF format, as they were released for free.  No longer seeming available.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

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DarklingAlice

Mechanical Dream. An obscure...I think French Canadian? RPG with an intriguing world. Problem being that I have a box set and a module but no core books. Said core books being out of print and > $100...
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Styx26

I'd love to play a Firefly/Serenity RPG... but everyone in my town seems to play either D&D or Vampire:The Masquerade.
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Kaernak

Mine refuse to try anything Warhammer or 40k related, The Dresden Files, and anything beyond D&D3.5/Pathfinder.

Banjaxed

The only tabletop RP experience I've had is the occasional 1se ED D&D session, hehe. Which is wonderful fun.

I'd love to try my hands at some Call of Cthulhu madness, I've even heard of something called CthulhuTech, which both sounds Rad as hell.

But I literally know no one in my circle of friends who plays these sort of games.
; u;
so...Maybe I'll find someone online, haha.
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Marikir

New games (to me) that have me interested:

Fear Itself and Trail of Cthulhu.  Use the GUMSHOE system that sounds neat...and probably good for online stuff too.
The Laundry -  Based on the novels by Charles Stross about a British Government Agency that combines Cthulhu w/ IT, math, and general geekery.

...

And the old stand-bys of  Mage: The Awakening, World of Darkness, etc.

Might have to look into CthluhuTech and Delta Green (when the new version gets released, perhaps, if it ever does that is)


TheGlyphstone

I found rules for a semi-freeform, free 'RPG' on some blog somewhere called Porno! that had players taking up the 'roles' of Director and Actors in a cheap porn flick and doing out all the dialogue while recording it. I can't find the rules anywhere, but I do remember them explicitly stating you were supposed to play it drunk, because no one would be shameless enough to play it sober.

Chris Brady

Quote from: MasterMischief on January 27, 2012, 05:56:41 PM
Gah!  Don't get me started.
Yeah, I hear ya.  Dood, you have my sympathies.  New games should broaden experiences.
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Ironwolf85

WOD... simply because we never have and I've looked into it, it seems a bit overly mystic to me, but it might be fun.
Warhammer... the minis are fucking expensive... so I'm the only person in 50 miles who has any because I bought them cheaper in england and brought them home.
Prudence, justice, temperance, courage, faith, hope, love...
debate any other aspect of my faith these are the heavenly virtues. this flawed mortal is going to try to adhere to them.

Culture: the ability to carve an intricate and beautiful bowl from the skull of a fallen enemy.
Civilization: the ability to put that psycho in prision for killing people.

TheGlyphstone

Overly mystic? All the WoD lines are based off various mythological monsters/themes, but I'm uncertain what would be 'mystic' about them except for New Mage's Atlantean-themed fluff.

Ironwolf85

how to put it... there were things I disliked about WOD settings.
i loved the mechanics, clans, and other stuff for werewolf... untill I read the mythology... which had me thinking "this was written my bitter hippies and new age shaman. if the world is doomed and nothing you do helps, what is the point of playing?"

I was thinking of learning the setting anyway, maybe with a few tweaks, I suggested it, and the entire setting went apocolyptic a week later
Prudence, justice, temperance, courage, faith, hope, love...
debate any other aspect of my faith these are the heavenly virtues. this flawed mortal is going to try to adhere to them.

Culture: the ability to carve an intricate and beautiful bowl from the skull of a fallen enemy.
Civilization: the ability to put that psycho in prision for killing people.

Oniya

Well, it was called the World of Darkness, after all.

Although, when we played an 'all books allowed' campaign, things got so bizarre and (especially once the Fae and Gypsies came in) unpredictable, we called it the World of Dimness.  The phrase 'That's some Twinkie' was actually used, and literally.
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Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
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Callie Del Noire

What I REALLY want to play is some Eclipse Phase but after the NINTH game on RPOL imploded this week I figure it isn't going to happen. Ever. 

Marikir

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on January 29, 2012, 01:51:33 AM
What I REALLY want to play is some Eclipse Phase but after the NINTH game on RPOL imploded this week I figure it isn't going to happen. Ever.

Such an interesting setting.  Kind of like a grab-bag of a lot of Sci-Fi, but looks like it could be fun. 


TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Ironwolf85 on January 29, 2012, 01:02:45 AM
how to put it... there were things I disliked about WOD settings.
i loved the mechanics, clans, and other stuff for werewolf... untill I read the mythology... which had me thinking "this was written my bitter hippies and new age shaman. if the world is doomed and nothing you do helps, what is the point of playing?"

I was thinking of learning the setting anyway, maybe with a few tweaks, I suggested it, and the entire setting went apocolyptic a week later

Huh - "hippie" and "end of the world" are two concepts I wouldn't have considered to even slightly overlap, though that's still a slanted view of the Old World. You couldn't stop the end of the world, but your actions would matter by delaying or softening it, or even (for Old Mage) averting it entirely by helping the entire human race Ascend into omnipotence.

You should check out New WoD, though - the setting is completely different, without any of that apocalypse nonsense. The mechanics are completely different too, though, so it might end up a mixed bag.

Marikir

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on January 29, 2012, 10:55:42 AM
Huh - "hippie" and "end of the world" are two concepts I wouldn't have considered to even slightly overlap, though that's still a slanted view of the Old World. You couldn't stop the end of the world, but your actions would matter by delaying or softening it, or even (for Old Mage) averting it entirely by helping the entire human race Ascend into omnipotence.

You should check out New WoD, though - the setting is completely different, without any of that apocalypse nonsense. The mechanics are completely different too, though, so it might end up a mixed bag.

My own opinion is that, I enjoy and prefer the mechanics in the new version of the World of Darkness. 

The OWOD has an odd place in my mind/memories.  It was out at a time when I could and did invest a TON of time into it.  I could run that game with a 5 minute break for me to come up with a plot for random friends who wanted to game.  Hand out character sheets and by the time they were done with them, I had a plot for them.  I knew that setting.

I don't think I'll ever be that way with any other setting.  Even the new one.  But...honestly?  I think I prefer the new version.  Definitely worth a look, if you have only been exposed to Werewofle: The Apocalypse instead of Werewolf: the Forsaken.

DarklingAlice

NWOD also has Geist which, despite my love of Wraith and Orpheus, is by far their best foray into the realm of ghosts, gods, and the underworld.
For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong.


TheGlyphstone