Elliquian Atheists

[Braioch]

Works for me -shrug-

[Rhapsody]

To paraphrase/quote Bill Maher, "Not only is atheism not my religion, it's not even my hobby. That's the great thing about it. It takes up so little of my time."

[Sabby]

Dr. Neil DeGrasse - The Universe and Aliens

How can you hear this and not feel at least a little awed? I don't need a Magical Sky Dad to feel special. I am the Universe, and the Universe is me.

[Rogue]

I'm not Atheist. But I don't believe I should need a religion to tell me to be nice to people. So I don't have a traditional god, but I couldn't wrap my head around these molecules randomly forming all the time without having some force behind it just subtly guiding it to happen in just the right way for life. So not necessarily a god but not nothing so I'm kinda atheist... *shrugs* I've given this a lot of thought believe it or not. But I'm on the side of the Rationalists more than any god worshiping religion.

[Sabby]

You're Agnostic by the sounds of it. We're pattern seeking creatures, so we feel a need to understand everything, even if we can't actually do that. Attributing fantastic events to fantastic causes is totally normal. And what's more fantastical then a blank slate of undefined energy assembling itself into an unfathomably complex system on it's own over billions of year with no external influence? You might have heard the old Creationist example of a tornado tearing through a junk yard and assembling an F1 Fighter Jet. That's a crude, simplistic process compared to the formation of the universe.

The assertion that it's impossible without an intelligent mind guiding it is just small, egotistical, very human minds trying to make sense of the world, like we've always had to survive. Now we're just comfortable enough to look for new unknowns to stamp out. And we're stamping on the real answers for false assurance.

[Rogue]

I very much agree with that assessment on my views, but I'm much more open to if we find a scientific explanation to what it is. I definitely believe that there is a scientific explanation, but until I have proof, it's a supernatural thing. I haven't actually talked about it in a while so it's hard to construct my thoughts properly. :( Like I believe in souls, but I believe there's a scientific way that they do work or happen and we just haven't figured it out. I also think that thinking that we are the most intelligent thing out there is mildly egotistical so I think there's something smarter than us potentially manipulating this whole shindig.

[Sabby]

I also think that thinking that we are the most intelligent thing out there is mildly egotistical so I think there's something smarter than us potentially manipulating this whole shindig.

Oh, certainly, but being open to superior lifeforms existing in the universe, and an incorporeal creator mind unbound by natural laws isn't so much a stretch as it is a cavernous gaping hole. There is no argument that can string the former to the latter.

There's no problem with being open to unproven concepts, as long as we remember that a lack of an answer is exactly that and nothing more :) It's not a placeholder slot where we can make up an answer while we wait for the real one. It's a hole that we want to fill, and it should remain empty until we can fill it. The second we forget that is the second innocent belief mutates...

[Rogue]

True. But that's why usually my belief remains silent and I don't try to spread it around. *grins* I think it's the fantasy/supernatural writer in me that wants to fill that space up with something that can't be explained. And while that might not necessarily be the most intelligent thing to do, it's in my nature. I also think part of me realizes that it's something that I'm just making up. Also, I'm not certain about any of my "beliefs" and while I believe they might be true, it's more of a hypothesis that we don't have a way to test yet.

And it is wrong until proven right. It's just what I believe is the most sound reasoning. Kinda like the Higgs Boson and how we didn't have the technology to say this is how it works, and then it got proved. Things like that.  I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying, this is what I think might be similar to what happens. Also, I never said in my original post that it was something that thought or had thought. I'm sorry I didn't clarify that sooner. I just think there's something there.

This is kinda an idea of what I mean by that. That section of the article (which isn't where I first heard of this btw, just a quick reference) is just something to give you as a reference of religions that are atheist in nature. Not sure how much you've actually heard of them existing. Just putting it out there as food for thought.

[Sabby]

Ah, interesting article :) I'm purely materialistic though, for the following reason. Anything exist is knowable. If we can't tell something is there, it's either not there, or we lack the tools to find it. The only way this can be circumvented is for a drastic reshuffling of our understanding of the laws of time and space, and that seems pretty unlikely at this point. So if there is some kind of divine creator out there, and it has any stake in this little planet, we can find it eventually :P And if there is an unknowable God as some claim, then it doesn't matter, because we're not ever going to find it, and it won't have any connection to us whatsoever.

[Rogue]

And I fully understand and acknowledge that belief. I just can't shut things down like that though. I can say for a fact that there can be no "unknowable" god. Either we can know him or he doesn't exist. But I would like there to be some things that do exist that we can find reasoning for just not yet that were considered supernatural in nature. Like luck. I'm sure there is some proof out there for how luck works. But some people simply have better luck than others. We don't have enough data to explain this. But I'm sure there's a reason for it.

[TaintedAndDelish]

Nice video clip.(Tyson)

Who needs a god when you have a universe?
Unless the universe and god are one and the same...

[Sabby]

In which case, we're getting to know God quite well, just we're taking Him at face value. Amazing how much more awe inspiring and wondrous He is when no one's fibbing and making stuff up :P

[Oniya]

About the only thing I don't like about Tyson is that he helped downgrade Pluto.  Setting that aside, I think he's this generation's Carl Sagan.

[Hemingway]

Nice video clip.(Tyson)

Who needs a god when you have a universe?
Unless the universe and god are one and the same...

If god and the universe are the same ( disregarding the fact that this would make it essentially a semantics game, and wouldn't really help anyone trying to make an actual case for god ), then that would mean that we are essentially all god. We don't simply inhabit the universe, after all - we're part of it. We are, in Carl Sagan's words, a way for the universe to know itself. We are the consciousness of god!

Given our usual understand, identifying people basically as their minds ( when we say "you", we generally mean the mind, or something like it - not the different cells or microorganisms that make up the body ), that means, again, we are basically god.

[Oniya]

We are, in Carl Sagan's words, a way for the universe to know itself.

Thanks, I was looking for the source of that quote!  (Problem with having a mind like a steel trap:  Everything in it gets crushed and mangled.)

[Pumpkin Seeds]

If god and the universe are the same ( disregarding the fact that this would make it essentially a semantics game, and wouldn't really help anyone trying to make an actual case for god ), then that would mean that we are essentially all god. We don't simply inhabit the universe, after all - we're part of it. We are, in Carl Sagan's words, a way for the universe to know itself. We are the consciousness of god!

Given our usual understand, identifying people basically as their minds ( when we say "you", we generally mean the mind, or something like it - not the different cells or microorganisms that make up the body ), that means, again, we are basically god.

That is an interesting interpretation for both an atheist and someone that is religious. 

[Hemingway]

Thanks, I was looking for the source of that quote!  (Problem with having a mind like a steel trap:  Everything in it gets crushed and mangled.)

"The cosmos is also within us, we're made of star-stuff. We are a way for the cosmos, to know itself."

I think it's from the first episode of the Cosmos series.

That is an interesting interpretation for both an atheist and someone that is religious. 

Interesting, maybe. But it's all bunk.  ;D

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Mental masturbation is still a fun way to pass the time.

[Oniya]

"The cosmos is also within us, we're made of star-stuff. We are a way for the cosmos, to know itself."

I think it's from the first episode of the Cosmos series.

I remember watching that both on PBS and in school when I was younger. :D  *makes notes to track it down for nostalgia's sake.*

EDIT:  Score!  Free on IMDB!

[Hemingway]

Mental masturbation is still a fun way to pass the time.

Oh, yes.

[LilyS]

If god and the universe are the same ( disregarding the fact that this would make it essentially a semantics game, and wouldn't really help anyone trying to make an actual case for god ), then that would mean that we are essentially all god. We don't simply inhabit the universe, after all - we're part of it. We are, in Carl Sagan's words, a way for the universe to know itself. We are the consciousness of god!

Given our usual understand, identifying people basically as their minds ( when we say "you", we generally mean the mind, or something like it - not the different cells or microorganisms that make up the body ), that means, again, we are basically god.

Almost like what Spinoza said.

[Tiberius]

Science has discovered the 'God Particle' which they believe is what triggered the big bang, they know it existed directly after the big bang but still can't figure out how it actually happened. The so called God Particle is smaller then even the tiniest identifiable portion of an atom which I think is the quark.

[Rhapsody]

Science has discovered the 'God Particle' which they believe is what triggered the big bang, they know it existed directly after the big bang but still can't figure out how it actually happened. The so called God Particle is smaller then even the tiniest identifiable portion of an atom which I think is the quark.

The so-called "God Particle" has nothing to do with God in any shape or form, and was actually originally called "the goddamn particle".

[Oniya]

Science has discovered the 'God Particle' which they believe is what triggered the big bang, they know it existed directly after the big bang but still can't figure out how it actually happened. The so called God Particle is smaller then even the tiniest identifiable portion of an atom which I think is the quark.

The idea of 'size' actually gets quite dicey when you hit the sub-atomic level.  Also, the Higgs Boson particle is actually considered to be that entity that imparts mass to things.  Without it, the matter that shot out after the Big Bang wouldn't have been able to produce enough gravitational fields to coalesce into things of planet or even asteroid size.

[Hades]

The Higgs Boson, aka "the god particle" or "that goddamn particle" is not responsible for causing the Big Bang, but rather as Oniya says, it is the thing that explains why electrons have a certain mass and why protons have a different mass.

Oh, and I suppose I should make an introduction of sorts.  *cough*   My name is Hades, and I'm a recovering theist.  *sits back down*