Deception: Murdered in Hong Kong Game Thread

[RedPhoenix]

I'm going to hold back on making guesses since there's a lot of things that could be Severe Injury in the right context and I don't think anyone is eliminated or suspicious at the moment.

Question - Guy can you tell me what is on the following cards? - Liquid Drug, Alcohol, Bamboo Tip, Radiation?

Thank you. :)

[Galactic Druid]

Alcohol is described on the initial post, but the image on the card shows a bottle of rubbing/medical alcohol. Liquid drug shows a prescription bottle like you'd get for a persistent cough, bamboo tip shows the end of a bamboo stalk, cut on a bias to make a point, and radiation just shows a warning sign with the radiation symbol.

It's noteworthy the rulebook for the tabletop version states that the pictures are just meant to be a reference, and it's the text that matters. Alcohol, how example, could be interpreted as the drinkable kind, or liquid drug could be something over the counter, even though the image is of a prescription.

[RedPhoenix]

But alcohol wouldn't be like, smashing someone with a bottle, right?

[Galactic Druid]

It could be, once again, that's up to the FS and the Investigators to interpret.

That said, it's in the FS'S best interest to make the clues as easy to interpret as possible. You could imagine, for example, a scenario where a person was bludgeoned to death with a sack of illegal drugs, but if that's the murder weapon, you're probably best off using illness or poisoning.

There may be a situation where the FS may want to try and link the cards in use, for example, if the means is a virus, and the evidence is a food or drink item, the FS may choose to hunt at poisoning over an illness. It's a risky move, especially if there are other items in play for poison, but it's a line of logic you can understand. Keep in mind though, the cards are seoerate, and most of the time should be considered individually.

[Assassini]

It could be, once again, that's up to the FS and the Investigators to interpret.

That said, it's in the FS'S best interest to make the clues as easy to interpret as possible. You could imagine, for example, a scenario where a person was bludgeoned to death with a sack of illegal drugs, but if that's the murder weapon, you're probably best off using illness or poisoning.

There may be a situation where the FS may want to try and link the cards in use, for example, if the means is a virus, and the evidence is a food or drink item, the FS may choose to hunt at poisoning over an illness. It's a risky move, especially if there are other items in play for poison, but it's a line of logic you can understand. Keep in mind though, the cards are seoerate, and most of the time should be considered individually.

^ This

The FS is wanting us to guess these things, thus they will be as obvious as possible. Because Alcohol does not immediately suggest Severe Injury (although one could see it that way of you REALLY tried) it is very easy to exclude.

Also given that there are specific cards like Wine and stuff I reckon it makes sense to think of that as more like pure ethanol or something.

[Madame Professor]

Blythe's list looks pretty solid to me. I would probably narrow it down a bit more by removing Boxcutter and Razor Blade, since the speak more to Loss of Blood to me, but until we learn more, I'm not sure we can narrow it further. 

[Remiel]

I tend to agree mostly with Blythe.  I would pretty much eliminate Madame Professor, however, as all of her clues speak to either suffocation (wire) or blood loss (razor blade, whip, bamboo tip).  It's conceivable that one could be impaled with a punji stick though, so I'll leave the bamboo in.

[Derwaysh]

I am also going to second (third? fourth?!) Blythe's and Verasaille's lists.

One can roll a piece of wire and hit someone in the head repeatedly though, Remiel... depending on its makeup. However still too early to speculate on my part as well! I am going to wait for clue number 2 and thus take it from there.

[persephone325]

Location of Crime - Playground, Classroom, Dormitory, Cafeteria, Elevator, Toilet

The FS has chosen Cafeteria.

[Blythe]

Hmmm. I think this may speak more strongly to Evidence cards than means of death. Will work up a list in a little while.

[Verasaille]

Oh That opens up some possibilities! When I think Cafeteria, I think of hospitals, or Town Halls or Courtrooms.

There are a few that jump out at me...

Player: Yugi006
Means of Murder Cards: Powder Drug, Metal Wire, Pillow, Sculpture
and maybe Surveillance Camera

Player: Remiel
Means of Murder Cards: Sniper, Illegal Drug, Drill, Liquid Drug
With maybe Soft drink?

Player: Assassini
Means of Murder Cards: Mercury, Drown, Chainsaw, Boxcutter
with Snacks.

Player: BAMF
Means of Murder Cards: Wrench, Surgery, Bite and Tear, Wine
with Video camera


Player: Derwaysh
Means of Murder Cards: Poisonous Needle, Machine, Cleaver, Unarmed
with possibly Steamed Buns?

Player: James Moriarty
Means of Murder Cards: Blender, Towel, Venemous Snake, Chemicals
with Note.

The list gets more intriguing!

[Remiel]

Assuming that both clues speak to the means, our most likely suspects are Verasaille (Trophy, folding chair), James Moriarty (Blender, chemicals), and Derwaysh (machine, cleaver)

[Madame Professor]

Stealing Guy's list, this is what I'm thinking right now:

Clues in Play:


Player: Yugi006
Means of Murder Cards: Powder Drug, Metal Wire, Pillow, Sculpture

Key Evidence Cards: Pocket Watch, Surveillance Camera, Exam Paper, Hourglass

Player: Strangefate
Means of Murder Cards: Poisonous Gas, Scarf, Electric Current, Plastic Bag

Key Evidence Cards: Test Tube, Iron, Maze, Cassette Tape


Player: Remiel
Means of Murder Cards: Sniper, Illegal Drug, Drill, Liquid Drug

Key Evidence Cards: Seasoning, Skull, Push Pin, Soft Drink


Player: Assassini
Means of Murder Cards: Mercury, Drown, Chainsaw, Boxcutter

Key Evidence Cards: Jacket, Snacks, Dice, Spring


Player: Blythe
Means of Murder Cards: Alcohol (The image on this card shows something like rubbing alcohol, though it IS up to the murderer's/investigator's interpretation), Kerosene, Machete, Hammer

Key Evidence Cards: ID Card, Certificate, Internet Cable, Table Lamp


Player:Madame Professor
Means of Murder Cards:Wire, Razor Blade, Whip, Bamboo Tip

Key Evidence Cards: Coffee, Menu, Playing Cards, Tie


Player: BAMF
Means of Murder Cards: Wrench, Surgery, Bite and Tear, Wine

Key Evidence Cards: Badge, Comics, Video Camera, Leather Shoe


Player: Verasaille
Means of Murder Cards: Trophy, Push, Folding Chair, Radiation

Key Evidence Cards: Numbers, Dictionary, Banknote (Odd translation there, it's cash), Switch


Player: James Moriarty
Means of Murder Cards: Blender, Towel, Venemous Snake, Chemicals

Key Evidence Cards: Note, Bullet, Timber, Cat(<-- This still amuses me to now end, but not really in the running. Unless it's a CAT CAFE!?! O.O)


Player: Derwaysh
Means of Murder Cards: Poisonous Needle, Machine, Cleaver, Unarmed

Key Evidence Cards: Lens, Mirror, Steamed Buns, Dentures


Player: Red Pheonix
Means of Murder Cards: Ice Skates, Locked Room, Sulfuric Acid, Arsenic

Key Evidence Cards: Safety Pin, Wig, Confidential Letter, Map



So... depending on where Perse is trying to point us... right now, Der is at the top of my list with his Cleaver and Steamed Buns. -eyes the prodigal pupil-
Remi with his Drill/Soft Drink combo is up there too, with Blythe and his Kerosene and ID Card.

[yugi006]

That narrows it down quite a bit. I'm thinking the location refers to the evidence as not many fit with means of murder to the location.

[Blythe]

All righty, a revised list. I think that I can eliminate a few more things here--'Locked Room' isn't making sense given the two clues, so I'm crossing it off. To be honest, I highly doubt it's 'Electric Current' either, but I don't think we have enough to cross that out.

Looking at what persephone325 did not pick...

What I am eliminating: Things that clearly look like they belong in a dorm or classroom. There's not a lot of crossover in those kinds of locations. Cafeterias always put me in mind of food. So yugi's Exam paper does not fit, nor does 'hourglass.' Both gone. Test tube would not be in a cafeteria--it'd be in a classroom or dorm. A cassette tape would be in a dorm. A push pin doesn't obviously feel like its a cafeteria, so it's out. 'Dice' are a hobby item that just wouldn't be in a cafeteria, so those are out. Internet cable and table lamp are both dorm or classroom items, so they're out as they don't fit in a cafeteria (I'm leaving my ID card because back when I was in college, I had to have it to eat). Playing cards are a hobby item more suited to a dorm, so those are out. 'Comics' are out for similar reasons. A dictionary is a study item that would be in a classroom or dorm. 'Timber' makes no sense for 'Cafeteria' and I'm comfortable eliminating it. When I see 'Mirror' I think of personal grooming/hygiene, and that feels like it'd belong in a bathroom/toilet rather than a cafeteria, so I'm crossing that out. Safety pin and wig also don't seem like 'cafeteria' evidence, more like a dorm/classroom or toilet.

In Green are Means of Murder/Evidence that I feel fit the strongest so far, with crossed out Means/Evidence being things that I feel are almost assuredly not what we are after.

Note: I'm struggling to narrow down Madame Professor's means. I'd like to eliminate at least one or two things, but I feel I can't confidently do so yet.

Player: Yugi006
Means of Murder Cards: Powder Drug, Metal Wire, Pillow, Sculpture
Key Evidence Cards: Pocket Watch, Surveillance Camera, Exam Paper, Hourglass

Player: Strangefate
Means of Murder Cards: Poisonous Gas, Scarf, Electric Current, Plastic Bag
Key Evidence Cards: Test Tube, Iron, Maze, Cassette Tape

Player: Remiel
Means of Murder Cards: Sniper, Illegal Drug, Drill, Liquid Drug
Key Evidence Cards: Seasoning, Skull, Push Pin, Soft Drink

Player: Assassini
Means of Murder Cards: Mercury, Drown, Chainsaw, Boxcutter
Key Evidence Cards: Jacket, Snacks, Dice, Spring

Player: Blythe
Means of Murder Cards: Alcohol, Kerosene, Machete, Hammer
Key Evidence Cards: ID Card, Certificate, Internet Cable, Table Lamp

Player:Madame Professor
Means of Murder Cards:Wire, Razor Blade, Whip, Bamboo Tip
Key Evidence Cards: Coffee, Menu, Playing Cards, Tie

Player: BAMF
Means of Murder Cards: Wrench, Surgery, Bite and Tear, Wine
Key Evidence Cards: Badge, Comics, Video Camera, Leather Shoe

Player: Verasaille
Means of Murder Cards: Trophy, Push, Folding Chair, Radiation
Key Evidence Cards: Numbers, Dictionary, Banknote (Odd translation there, it's cash), Switch

Player: James Moriarty
Means of Murder Cards: Blender, Towel, Venemous Snake, Chemicals
Key Evidence Cards: Note, Bullet, Timber, Cat

Player: Derwaysh
Means of Murder Cards: Poisonous Needle, Machine, Cleaver, Unarmed
Key Evidence Cards: Lens, Mirror, Steamed Buns, Dentures

Player: Red Pheonix
Means of Murder Cards: Ice Skates, Locked Room, Sulfuric Acid, Arsenic
Key Evidence Cards: Safety Pin, Wig, Confidential Letter, Map



So....this is my list.

[RedPhoenix]

I am just getting home from work. I don't know if I'll be able to organize my thoughts tonight or not but I am going to try.

This is a lot easier to read other people playing than it is yourself!

[RedPhoenix]

Okay so if I'm reading the rules right, the scientist gets to pick the order they use the cards in? I would assume if that is the case the scientist would pick the biggest most useful clues first.

I'm also agreeing with Bylthe and Vera that it is probably more helpful to look at what clearly would be a better pick of something else than to look at what fits the clue because, well, pretty much anything can fit any clue if you are creative.

So with that being said..

Cause of Death- Suffocation, Severe Injury, Loss of Blood, Illness/Disease, Poisoning, Accident

So, it's NOT - Suffocation, Loss of Blood, Illness/Disease, Poisoning, or Accident.

I think there is a lot of potential crossover with Loss of Blood and Accident, but Suffocation, Illness/Disease and Poisoning are clearly different.

Location of Crime - Playground, Classroom, Dormitory, Cafeteria, Elevator, Toilet

So it's NOT - Playground, Classroom, Dormitory, Elevator, Toilet.

Okay, Playground, Classroom, Dormitory and Cafeteria all have elements of a school so there's some crossover there, but Elevator and Toilet are clearly different, and also Cafeteria has the food prep thing going on which may make something stand out more.

So here are my thoughts. I am NOT comparing this to anyone else's as I write. I think it's better to do it this way and then go back and see what others think.

Red = I think it matches very well
Orange = I think it could match but could also match something similar (i.e. Blood Loss/Severe Injury)
Green = It could fit but I think there's a better choice, or there aren't any great choices for this clue among the options
Blue = Very sure it's not this, a clearly better choice

Yugi006
Means of Murder Cards: Powder Drug (Poisoning/Accident), Metal Wire (seems like Suffocation would be the best choice...but not as strong on this one), Pillow (Suffocation), Sculpture (I think this fits pretty well)
Key Evidence Cards: Pocket Watch (Not Blue because I don't think it fits any all that well, but for that reason I'm not putting it any higher), Surveillance Camera (I think elevator would be a better choice for this but again none are great), Exam Paper (definitely classroom), Hourglass (again, none are great for this, but I would have picked classroom I think)

Overall: Yugi is looking pretty good. One good match for means of murder, but no evidence that I think fits. Threat Level: Blue.

Strangefate
Means of Murder Cards: Poisonous Gas (Suffocation, Poisoning obvious better choices), Scarf (Suffocation/Accident clearly better choices), Electric Current (Accident is equally good here, but Severe Injury also fits), Plastic Bag (Suffocation obviously better)
Key Evidence Cards: Test Tube (Classroom obviously better), Iron (I'm assuming this is a clothes iron, in which case I would have gone with dormitory), Maze (I think this would go in classroom or playground depending on how big it is), Cassette Tape (Elevator Music? Maybe Dorm or Classroom? Don't see how this possibly gets Cafeteria)

Overall: Strangefate is looking pretty safe too, unless I'm misunderstanding something really obvious I don't think it's him. Threat Level: Blue

Remiel
Means of Murder Cards: Sniper (I think Severe Injury is the best for this), Illegal Drug (Poisoning/Accident both better), Drill (Equal to Loss of Blood, but both are good), Liquid Drug (Illness/Disease, Poisoning, Accident all better)
Key Evidence Cards: Seasoning (Perfect fit), Skull (probably Classroom? None are a great fit), Push Pin (Classroom, Dormitory, both better, nothing great though), Soft Drink (Best fit)

Overall: There are multiple ways Remiel is guilty here. Also, is Remiel. Threat Level: Red

Assassini
Means of Murder Cards: Mercury (Poisoning, Accident both better), Drown (Suffocation obviously), Chainsaw (Loss of Blood and Severe Injury both fit this equally well), Boxcutter (Same)
Key Evidence Cards: Jacket (Honestly could go in pretty much any except Elevator/Toilet), Snacks (Cafeteria is a good fit, but so is Classroom, Dormitory, etc), Dice (None are great fits), Spring (would think Classroom/Playground before Cafeteria)

Overall: Can't rule him out quite yet, but case isn't that great. Threat Level: Orange

Blythe
Means of Murder Cards: Alcohol (Illness/Disease, Poisoning, Accident all better), Kerosene (Severe injury would be the best fit if you take this to mean set on fire, but Poisoning/Accident could work too), Machete (similar to Chainsaw/Boxcutter), Hammer (Blunt Force Trauma, best described by Severe Injury than the other options)
Key Evidence Cards: ID Card (You could find this in Dorm too, but both work well), Certificate (This is kind of vague, but like, a food rating certificate or health inspection one fits only here, of course like a report card fits better in classroom, compliance certificates hang in elevators...hmm), Internet Cable (Classroom/Dorm better choices), Table Lamp (Dorm is only good choice for this, never been in a cafeteria with a table lamp)

Overall: Some good matches, but missing a match of 'best choice' options. Still pretty suspect though. Threat Level: Orange

Madame Professor
Means of Murder Cards: Wire (an electric wire would seem to be more Accident related, a strangling wire more Suffocation related, either way seems weak), Razor Blade (same as other bladed things, severe injury/blood loss both good fits), Whip (pretty much same), Bamboo Tip (and same)
Key Evidence Cards: Coffee (It's a good fit, but hardly the only place you see coffee), Menu (best fit), Playing Cards (Dorm probably equally good, but this fits well too), Tie (would probably pick Classroom or Elevator first)

Overall: Some strong evidence here, but not quite a smoking bullet on the means of murder. Threat Level: Orange

BAMF
Means of Murder Cards: Wrench (best choice), Surgery (I think probably Accident/Loss of Blood fit pretty well too), Bite and Tear (Loss of Blood equally good), Wine (Illness/Disease, Poisoning, Accident all better)
Key Evidence Cards: Badge (Honestly don't think any match this), Comics (Same), Video Camera, (mayybe but I would have picked elevator first), Leather Shoe

Overall: Lots of strong means of murder cards, no strong evidence cards. But I might be missing something as many of them seem vague to me. Threat Level: Green

Verasaille
Means of Murder Cards: Trophy (bludgeoning death, best fit), Push (I think being pushed off a big cliff or into traffic, this is the best pick), Folding Chair (another beating death?), Radiation (Poisoning, Illness/Disease, Accident all much better choices)
Key Evidence Cards: Numbers (Classroom/Playground/Dorm/Elevator all much better choices), Dictionary (Classroom is obvious choice), Banknote (of the choices available, a Cafeteria is the only place you'd use money), Switch (not a great fit for any but cafeteria is a real stretch)

Overall: Some definite possibilities here. Threat Level: Orange

James Moriarty
Means of Murder Cards: Blender (could also be loss of blood/accident, but if you bludgeon someone with it this fits best), Towel (Suffocation, Accident better choices), Venemous Snake (Poisoning), Chemicals (it could lead to severe injury but I think illness/disease or poisoning fit better)
Key Evidence Cards: Note (Classroom much better), Bullet (not a great fit for anything), Timber (again not a great fit for anything), Cat (and again not a great fit for anything)

Overall: I think pretty in the clear, although some vague possibilities remain. Threat Level: Green

Derwaysh
Means of Murder Cards: Poisonous Needle (if the FS picks anything but poison while its in the name than the FS is the killer!!), Machine (Severe Injury/Accident both fit pretty well), Cleaver (equal to blood loss as all over blades), Unarmed (Fits best of available options)
Key Evidence Cards: Lens (I'm thinking classroom maybe? Not great for any), Mirror (Toilet obvious choice), Steamed Buns (best choice), Dentures (I think Cafeteria is best choice, since these involve eating)

Overall: Some possibilities. Not really ready to commit here though. Threat Level: Orange.

Red Pheonix
Means of Murder Cards: Ice Skates (all other bladed instruments), Locked Room (would think Suffocation/Accident before Severe Injury), Sulfuric Acid (Best fit), Arsenic (Poisoning)
Key Evidence Cards: Safety Pin (no great matches, not sure what I would pick for this tbh), Wig (same, but maybe Toilet is closest), Confidential Letter (think like passing a note I would go classroom), Map (Classroom)

Okay not really gonna pretend I can be objective about myself but attempting to be I guess. Why not? Trying to compare these to others I'd go with Green.

Also does anyone else think this combination of items makes me seem like Tonya Harding? Ice skates, Wigs, Confidential Letters, Locked Rooms...no? Just me? Ok then...

Hmm okay those are my raw thoughts.

[yugi006]

The method of murder and location are always the first two given.

[Verasaille]

I am beginning to get very suspicious of Remi...but then I am always suspicious of REMI!
A sniper on a break just outside the window drinking his soft drink?


And of course MP with that menu looks mighty suspicious...a bamboo tip can be dangerous in the wrong hands!

Assassini with the snacks looks good and the boxcutter would fit as a weapon. Restocking the machines you need a boxcutter to open boxes.

Yugi would fit with the Sculpture, and the exam paper if it is a school cafeteria.

Blythe would fit with the Hammer and the ID card if it was a janitor guy on break.

Bamf with the wrench and the video camera can't be ruled out.

I still suspect Derwaysh with the cleaver and the steamed buns!

[James Moriarty]

Huh, I'm starting to wonder if Vera is the accomplice too.  Bamboo tip, boxcutter, and cleaver all seem like "loss of blood" to me.  Or at least, if I were the FS, I'd likely pick that over "severe injury" to hint at those means.

[James Moriarty]

It really does seem like Remiel or MP to me at the moment.  Coffee and Soft Drink are among the most evocative of a cafeteria.  It's a little troubling to consider what the FS would have said if no location really fit -- like, if the murderer was "ice skates" and "map".  However, I believe "dormitory" or even "elevator" would have been a better generic answer in that case.  Cafeteria is so specific in a way that the others aren't necessarily, that I can't help but think that a food connection is essential here.

[Verasaille]

I imagine it is a lot of cross over, I think. Too many things could be of multiple uses. I just think of severe injury as something violent. That can certainly be blunt trauma as much as bloody.

It is important to tie in the evidence as well. Tie the evidence into the location. But the murder weapon has to tie to both. Am I right?

[persephone325]

Evidence Left Behind - Natural, Artistic, Written, Synthetic, Personal, Unrelated

The FS has chosen Written.

[yugi006]

That narrows it down a lot which leaves:

Yugi - Exam Paper

Blythe - Certificate

Madame Professor - Menu (Possibility)

BAMF - Comics (Possibility)

Verasaille - Dictionary (Possibility)

James Moriarty - Note

Red Phoenix - Confidential Letter

[Madame Professor]

Right now, my Prime Suspect is James with his Blender and Note.