M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group

[Haibane]

So, first post just to iron out the first series we're watching together - is there at least a general consensus (or no objections) to Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei? It seemed to have more interest than some of the others, for the first series.

For more information about the series, read on for some quick snippets, or you can head on over to Anime News Network or Wikipedia.



Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei (さよなら 絶望先生 Sayonara Zetsubō Sensei?, literally "Goodbye, Mr. Despair") is a Japanese manga by Kōji Kumeta, serialized in Weekly Shōnen Magazine. It is a comedy about a teacher who takes all aspects of life, word and culture in the most negative light possible. It satirizes politics, media, and Japanese society. In 2007, the manga received the thirty-first Kodansha Manga Award in the shōnen category, and was adapted into a twelve-episode anime series.  -- Wikipedia

Itoshiki Nozomu is the world's most negative person. To his way of thinking, there is no hope or meaning in this existence. Even the three kanji of his name become the two-kanji word zetsubou, "despair", when compressed. What an ironic twist of fate, then, that he becomes teacher to a class containing his precise opposite, the invincibly positive-minded Fuura Kafuka. -- Anime News Network

Just wanted to check - the anime we are watching is the THIRD series in this anime story, right?

[Caeli]

I'm pretty sure it's the first in the series, the one that originally aired in 2007. The title of the first episode is Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei (the subs translated it as "So Long, Mr. Despair").

[Haibane]

Good thing I asked, the download I'd found was for the 3rd series. I have the right one now.

[DudelRok]

Thread Bookmarked!

As I've read everything in the thread so far, here are my comments.

I'll watch whatever. Unlike a lot of y'all I have way too much time to kill. I could easily knock a 12 Ep Anime in a day and still have time to do other stuff. Grass is always greener. Trust me, it's not a good thing. Personally, though, I'll space things out to prevent myself from accidentally spoiling.

Speaking of spoilers (Spoiler) That's how you label them, typically. At least in every game forum I've ever looked at or show I've discussed with friends. I like to know some spoilers, myself. Especially if a show is dragging on. Gives me something to look forward to. (/Spoiler)

I'm actually looking forward to this one, though. It might be very funny. Or it might be god awful and give me something to complain about. Either way, discuss with others.

[Haruki]

I hear ya, Major Major. My dial-up enjoys keeping me from obtaining things as readily as I want them.

For locations to gather said series, I have sources for most of them. These locations have proven virus-free in the past, and the subtitle quality has been very nice. The subtitling on the series has also been done quite well (I am far from fluent or even conversationally-sound in the language, so I can't say : but a friend of mine is fluent in the spoken language, and she vouches on it).

I also have many of these series downloaded onto harddrives, so for people with slow-connections, if you can obtain high-speed long enough to download the episode direct, I can provide the links for you!

I hear ya, Major Major. My dial-up enjoys keeping me from obtaining things as readily as I want them.

For locations to gather said series, I have sources for most of them. These locations have proven virus-free in the past, and the subtitle quality has been very nice. The subtitling on the series has also been done quite well (I am far from fluent or even conversationally-sound in the language, so I can't say : but a friend of mine is fluent in the spoken language, and she vouches on it).

I also have many of these series downloaded onto harddrives, so for people with slow-connections, if you can obtain high-speed long enough to download the episode direct, I can provide the links for you!

You mentioned something about having sources to the first anime we're going to follow and discuss.

I have a mere DSL line @ just under 2.0 Mbps down.  While I'm probably able to suffice with something higher than a typical 56k speed, any help in a direction to acquire the series will help immensely.

I'm glad someone brought it up in the thread.  Oftentimes those of us in the U.S. forget that those in the UK and Australia are charged per MB or somesuch......higher up/down speeds in general, but charged, unlike here in the U.S. where we're given 'unlimited' (within reason) quotas, albeit, our up/down speeds are slower than the rest of the world.

Also as such, some folks are still stuck with analog (dial-up) connections, as stated.  Not so much in North America and E. Asia (Japan mainly), but in other areas for the most part.

This was often, until early last year, why I couldn't follow newer anime titles like the one we're going to follow and discuss.

[DudelRok]

---


Edit: I implied as such.

[Caeli]

Just a reminder: Please don't share download links in this thread, or mention how to obtain anime/manga that doesn't involve making a legitimate purchase. It's against Elliquiy's rules.

[DudelRok]

Just a reminder: Please don't share download links in this thread, or mention how to obtain anime/manga that doesn't involve making a legitimate purchase. It's against Elliquiy's rules.

Ah, yes.

That'd be #5

This server is governed by the laws of the United States. You will not link to or provide warez, illegal pdfs or mp3s, and so on. Threats will be dealt with accordingly.

[Caeli]

It wasn't really pushing it all that terribly, but I know in the past, merely mentioning how to go about it made staff really wary (well, it made me really wary when I was on staff; I would check on the thread for new replies to make sure the discussion wasn't breaking the rules). Just to keep it on the safe side, I want to state it upfront so that there isn't any question about where the line will be drawn on that subject in this thread. :)

[Haibane]

I'm glad someone brought it up in the thread.  Oftentimes those of us in the U.S. forget that those in the UK and Australia are charged per MB or somesuch......higher up/down speeds in general, but charged, unlike here in the U.S. where we're given 'unlimited' (within reason) quotas, albeit, our up/down speeds are slower than the rest of the world.

That has now changed for the most part. While broadband via cable or satellite isn't very common and most UK internet still travels via the phone lines, the services from ISPs are very good now to what they were 10 years ago. Most ISps also offer national coverage so there's healthy competition and a customer can usually always choose from several service prooviders. Most ISPs here offer speeds up to 20Mb over phone line with a fixed price per month for a certain ceiling of Gigabytes. Mine is 60Gigs a month which in most months is plenty. If I exceed that I just pay a few pounds more to cover the extra, but the ISP offers a handy meter on their website so I can see exactly how much I have left. Also downloads between midnight and 6:00am don't count towards my monthly total so for me many downlaods happen then.

I'm a rural area and still get an 8Mb connection.

The days of being charged per minute or per Mb are long gone here as far as I'm aware, or at least they are pretty unusual now.

I can't speak for Australia or other countries.

It wasn't really pushing it all that terribly, but I know in the past, merely mentioning how to go about it made staff really wary (well, it made me really wary when I was on staff; I would check on the thread for new replies to make sure the discussion wasn't breaking the rules). Just to keep it on the safe side, I want to state it upfront so that there isn't any question about where the line will be drawn on that subject in this thread. :)

I was thinking about this and it still bothers me. I think just knowing what this thread is about, its quite obvious that we are all watching anime and not paying for it. So what do the site staff say about that? We're not providing links but its obvious what's going on, and we're encouraging others to join in.

Actually... this bothers me a lot. Some guidance would help Caeli.

[Caeli]

I'm going to ask a friendly staff member about the issue, Haibane. :) So no worries on that score.

[Caeli]

Sorry to double post. I sent a PM to a couple of staff members, and I'll let you all know the results of our discussion when it concludes.

However, I do want to state that there are legal streaming and download sites available. There is a list provided on Crunchyroll of legal options to enjoy anime.

[DudelRok]

However, I do want to state that there are legal streaming and download sites available. There is a list provided on Crunchyroll of legal options to enjoy anime.

I'd recommend a few of those, myself. Streaming only, though, and only the ones that don't bother you with commercials.

If you are gonna buy just go find yourself a full on physical copy. Such a better deal and you get pretty box art!


Oh, and I've decided that while I can consume most of these shows fairly quickly that I'd keep on pace with everyone else to self prevent spoilers. :D

[Caeli]

Anyway, I'm still waiting on word from the staff, but I'm not going to give up on this group. We'll find a way to make it work. There are plenty of streamed series we can choose from if that's what it comes down to.

I'll keep you all updated on the staff's answer to our concerns, here. :)

[Haruki]

Been busy all weekend, so I'm just catching up now.

I'll keep an eye on this thread to know what's going on.  :)

Any anime that I've bought and own in physical formats (like Eden of the East is one of many I own), I'll be having my discs on hand next to me, since I do have a DVD / Blu Ray player on my PC I can play them back on.  Like DudelRok, I'll keep pace with the group in those instances....we don't want major spoilers.

The streaming stuff, of course, sounds like those wrinkles are still being ironed out.

[Caeli]

So I haven't gotten an answer from the staff yet, but I did want to ask the whole group - do you all want to go ahead and start the series discussions, pick a different series, or postpone until I get a definitive answer?

[Tiaan]

Maybe no news is good news? I think we should go ahead, until we are told otherwise. As mentioned before there are plenty of places to get hold of this anime legally. People talk about movies and games on this forum, a lot of which can be obtained through dubious means; it's up to the individuals what they do outside Elliquiy, I think. Those are my thoughts anyway~

[Haibane]

If Sayonara is available on one of the streaming or pay to download sites then we should definitely discuss it.

Shall we watch episode 1 now and begin discussion on... tomorrow, 1st Feb? Perhaps Caeli can put up a post with a bold header saying "GO!" or something to that effect.

[Caeli]

Hello everyone!

I contacted staff for an update, and their conclusion is that I (as the thread OP) take reasonable steps to ensure that people know where the resources are to watch anime legally, but that there will be no limitations on which series we discuss. I have further prohibited any discussion about obtaining anime illegally (if you implied as much in previous posts, please modify appropriately) to be on the safe side. In the future, please report all posts that refer to ways of obtaining anime illegally.

I have copied the notice I have now included in the first post here for your reading pleasure. You don't have to read everything (and indeed, you don't have to read it at all), but I want everyone to be aware of the information.

From the first post...

An Important Message Regarding Legalities and Copyright

Before I begin, I would like to state as a disclaimer that I do not work with copyright law, nor am I an expert in the field, and thus anything that I say here is gathered from other sources, and my own interpretation and understanding of those sources. Where possible, I will provide links so you can also read them yourself and familiarize yourself with the information. It is not necessary nor required for you to read any of the external links provided in order to understand what I am trying to say.

This message exists because I would like to keep all activities and conversations in this group completely free of rule-brekaing activity and infringement of the rules:

5. This server is governed by the laws of the United States. You will not link to or provide warez, illegal pdfs or mp3s, and so on. Threats will be dealt with accordingly.

There is to be absolutely no discussion of how to find free episodes (or fansubs), where or how to download them, or where to stream them, etc. unless the source is a legal provider of the anime series in question. I would like to encourage everyone to support the anime industry by obtaining any anime series we discuss here through legal means. That means you can stream it from legitimate sources (more detail below), download it, purchase it, or borrow it from the library or from a friend. We're all here because we enjoy, perhaps even love. anime. Support of the anime industry is crucial for its continued success in North America, as well as other regions of the world.



The Legality of Fansubs

Fansubs are illegal. The inherent creation and redistribution of fansubs violates most of the protections that Japanese copyright law gives to the creators of an anime. International treaties such as the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works allow for countries to protect their copyrights in other regions of the world (mainly, the signatories of said treaties). Thus, copyright applies even in countries where the series is not distributed. (United States Copyright Law, if you're interested.)

A fellow anime fan put together a page that addresses myths and questions regarding fansubbing. I have reproduced the page in its entirety in the spoiler below in case the page is ever taken down. It is a very concise FAQ that answers the most common questions about fansubbing, and if you read nothing else, please read that.

Fansubbing: Myths and FAQ by DarkMirage

Fansubbing: Myths and FAQ
By DarkMirage - 11/12/2004

Recently, Media Factory Inc. issued a legal statement to AnimeSuki, requesting the removal of the site's BitTorrent listings for MFI intellectual properties. This turn of events took the fansubbing community by surprise as it was not an American company, but a Japanese one that made the request. The responses were loud and violent, as teenagers with questionable language abilities flocked to forums and chatrooms, each and every one of them eager to express his/her discontents through deep and profound posts that often consisted of words not exceeding four-characters long. The opinions expressed can generally be summarized as "confused" and "misguided", with some even nearing the realm of "retardation". This has significantly lowered my hopes for the future of humanity and so I have decide to create this semi-FAQ to facilitate my crusade against idiocy and ignorance. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against fansubs. I am part of a fansubbing group and I find fansubbers in general to be fine folks. I just hate those morons going on in forums about their constitutional rights to download and watch fansubs.

Pardon my poor English, for, unlike many of those forum-goers, it is not my mother-tongue.

Fansubs are legal.
The unauthorized reproduction and distribution of copyrighted material is far from legal. See: Copyright.

Fansubs are legal as long as the series in question is not licensed for distribution in the region where the fansubs are being distributed in.
Completely false. Fansubs are illegal whether the series is licensed for distribution or not. This is because the copyright (which is completely unrelated to the right of distribution) applies even in countries where the series is not distributed in. See: the Berne Convention, specifically the parts about nationality of author, rights of translation and rights of reproduction. Here's a full list of signatories to the Convention. It is interesting to note that the mere act of making an unauthorized translation available for public usage is already illegal, much less the actual copyrighted footage.

Fansubs are legal because they are not being done for commercial purposes.
False. Fansubs are illegal whether they are being exchanged for objects of monetary worth. Just like copies of pirated software are illegal whether they are being offered for download or sold at roadside stalls. See: Statutory Damages. As for the so-called "educational" purposes claimed by some fansubbing zealots, please refer to the question below.

Fansubs are legal in America and some other countries under the Fair Use / Fair Dealing clause.
No. No they are not. The unauthorized reproduction, translation and subsequent distribution of the entire length of a copyrighted animation is not protected by Fair Use in anyway whatsoever. The only protections Fair Use might give would be, for example, if you were to make a self-subtitled copy of a work you own legally and view it in your own privacy. This can include close friends and family, but whether all two hundred of your fellow anime club members count for close friends will be decided by the jury and not you. Using parts of a copyrighted work for the purpose of parodies, reviews, news report, teaching material etc. is also covered under Fair Use as long as they do not constitute a huge portion of the work in question. This means that fansubs do not qualify. For a more detailed explanation of Fair Use, see here.

Fansubs are legal... somehow.
No. They are not. Just give up already.

My friend/brother/uncle/cousin-twice-removed/random guy on IRC/etcetera told me that fansubbing is legal because of [insert reason here].
He/she/it lies.

If unlicensed fansubs are illegal, why were they tolerated? And why the sudden change?
To put it simply: fansubs helped to promote anime back when the word "anime" was not part of English and most animations on TV were Hana-Barbara, Disney and whatever else you Americans had. They were tolerated by Japanese companies for this purpose. Most studios also felt that it was not worth the effort to sue North American fansubbers, as they had, at that time, no assets in North America to protect. Suing could also potentially isolate their new fans and close up a potential market.

Today however, you ("you" being North Americans) can watch anime on cable TV, buy anime DVDs from any DVD stores, join an anime club in school and read about all the latest anime news on the internet. Fansubs today no longer play that single vital role in promoting a new series to foreign audiences. Yet because of their mass-availability through the internet, they are now hurting the sales of legitimate DVDs in North America, Asia and other regions. For this reason, Japanese companies have slowly started to take actions against fansubbers instead of waiting for a foreign distributor to do the job.

Japanese companies cannot sue American fansubbers and need to do it through American distributors.
False. Japanese companies have always been able to take legal actions against North American fansubbers. They just chose not to because they decided that committing the resources to do so was not worth the effort. Contracting an American law firm to represent you in US court is not exactly cheap and certainly time-consuming. It was, and still is, simpler to let an American distributor do the job. However, more Japanese companies are now willing to take actions directly to protect their interests due to developments in recent years such as the high broadband internet penetration and the exponential growth of anime subculture in North America.

I am poor! I can't afford legitimate DVDs! Those evil money-hungry companies have no right to make me pay so much for my anime!!!
The companies made those DVDs and the contents within. They, as the copyright holders, have complete control over what they want to do with their intellectual properties. No one is "making" you buy anime DVDs. You have logical thinking skills and free-will (or so I'd like to believe); if a product is overpriced, then don't buy it! As for companies being money-hungry, please see: Capitalism.

I don't live in North America or any place where legitimate anime can be purchased!
Tough luck. Entertainment isn't a basic human right. The companies have no obligations to make sure that their products are made available to everyone. It's not oxygen for god's sake.

If you find any factual errors in this FAQ, please feel free to e-mail me in a non-threatening manner. I will correct any mistakes ASAP.
You may use the contents of this page in anyway you deem necessary to raise copyright awareness in the fansubbing community.
©2004 DarkMirage

Legal Streaming and Download Sites for Anime

One of the users on Crunchyroll created a list of legal anime streaming and download sites from which you can get your anime fix. I have provided a shortened list of the most popular sites in the spoilers below.

Quick notes about these sites:
- Most of these services are only available for the North American audience, unless stated otherwise.
- All the streaming sites, unless otherwise noted, offer free viewing of their content.
- If an episode is available for download, usually a nominal fee is required, about $1.99.

Legal Streaming Sites

crunchyroll: http://www.crunchyroll.com/
*http://www.crunchyroll.com/library/IndexAnime
- Basic membership lets the user view almost everything, but there is a "week" waiting period for the newer content.
- The site requires a Star Membership to use some of it’s features like “advanced” viewing, 480p or “720p” "quality," and to access some of it’s contents.
- Episodes can be purchased and downloaded here http://www.crunchyroll.com/store.
- The shows' episode release dates are here http://www.crunchyroll.com/launchcalendar.

FUNimation: http://www.funimation.com/
*http://www.funimation.com/video/
*FUNimation Download-To-Own Video Store: http://www.funimation.com/f_index.cfm?page=vod
*Veoh Channel: http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/publisher:FUNimation
- Shows update weekly with maybe one or two episodes.
- Episodes are available for download for $1.99.

The Anime Network: http://www.theanimenetwork.com/
*http://www.theanimenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_vods&Itemid=62
- A registered account is required to access the series. Most series are subjected to a subscription fee, which is $6.95 a month.

Hulu: http://hulu.com
*http://www.hulu.com/search?page=1&query=anime&sort_by=relevance&type=episode
- Like that of regular T.V. shows, there will be the "occasional" commercial breaks.
- Most of the videos allow the user to watch the video at either 360p or 480p quality.

Netflix: http://www.netflix.com/
- A memberships is required to view the content. Plans start as low as $4.99/month.
- Show of the content here can or can't be viewed online. It just depends.

Legal Streaming on YouTube

YouTube Animation & Cartoons: http://www.youtube.com/shows/animation?l=en&pt=g

FUNimation: http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNimation
- Some of these videos are in parts.
- There is a HQ, high quality, option for some of the series.

Bandai: http://www.youtube.com/user/BandaiEntertainment

animenetwork: http://www.youtube.com/user/animenetwork

Kadokawa Entertainment: http://www.youtube.com/user/KADOKAWAanime
- Available Worldwide

GONG: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=GONG&view=playlists

I will not provide the links to the pay-to-download sites, because I want to advocate free legal options for everyone here. If you are interested in purchasing your anime, DudelRok suggests that, "If you are gonna buy (as that's the only way to get legal downloads) just go find yourself a full on physical copy. Such a better deal and you get pretty box art!"

If you live in a region that is not North America and would like to have some region-specific links added to this page, please PM me.



Last Words

In short, there are no restrictions on what we'll be watching in this group. I cannot ensure that everyone here is watching legally, and I consider this notice to be a more than reasonable step to make sure that anyone who wanders in here knows where the  resources are to do so.

Please report any posts in this thread that provides links to illegal streaming or download sites. You can do this by clicking the Report to Moderator link at the bottom-right corner of the post.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

As such, we will be going ahead with Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei. At midnight tonight, I will post a header signifying that discussion has begun (and that spoilers will be imminent if you have not watched the episode).

No spoilers will be necessary for any of the posts in the discussion. This is because we have set a watch-by date, and any post that comes after the headers comes with the understanding that the poster and the reader have watched the same episode.

Episode 2 will have a tentative watch-by date of one week from the start of the discussion on episode 1. However, if the discussion is winding down and there is a general consensus, then the watch-by date can be moved up. Likewise, if the conversation looks like it has a ways to go, we can push back discussion for the second episode until the first discussion has concluded.

[Caeli]

Series » Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei
Episode 1 Discussion » Start!

[Chris Brady]

Before I forget, because I am Canadian, I am unable to watch most streaming site due to some law that no one wants to explain, so as much as I'd love to, I will have to back out of this club.  Have fun, everyone.

[Haibane]

I beleive you can still contribute, but you just can't say that you obtained your copy of the anime illegally, nor give links/instructions how to do so. Keeping silent on the subject isn't going to cause people to point any fingers, I'm certain of that.

But anyway, moving on...

Well. This is funny! I laughed a lot. So much so I couldn't read the subtitles. In fact I had to constant pause/start the episode in order to catch everything; the dialogue was fast and snappy with a joke in almost every line (it reminded me of Kyon's deadpan delivery at high speed from Haruhi Suzumiya) and half the jokes were written on the signs and chalkboards in the backgrounds. There were several in-jokes aimed at other anime, in particular a nod to Paranoia Agent in the closing titles (the woman holding the bent and blood-stained basball bat in the train car full of dead people). But yeah, so many jokes it hurt!

First impressions are favourable. I liked the simplistic art style and minimal animation, it seemed to fit the material somehow. The dialogue was fast, snappy and funny and so far as I can see its poking fun at modern society as much as anything else with the naming of stadia and public monuments after corporations (because they have the money and everybody has their price). Compare this to Fuura naming the sakura trees after anything cute or silly that she pleases (Pink Young CEO... chuckle) and naming her teacher 'Pink Supervisor' was a nice way to emphasize how stupid modern society has become with its greed for money... "One day even Mount Fuji will be renamed... Mount Shonen Magazine".

I can't decide if Fuura thinking that people hanging themselves means they're trying to make themselves taller is her being dumb and innocent or she's trying to distract Zetsubou-Sensei from having a second go. But whatever she's doing, its funny. She's a high-school girl so she can't possibly be that stupidly innocent so she must be being kind to him, making the conversation amusing rather than depressing. As the text there says "A man who can only see everything in a negative light" an "A girl who sees everything in a positive light" have met, something that wasn't supposed to happen.

I'll definitely watch this a couple more times to catch all th ebits I'm sure I missed first time.

[NightRabbit]

Ok, wow. I agree with Haibane, it can be pretty funny. Kitsu-san is my favorite student thus far because I have OCD tendencies and can totally relate. The title sequence kind of threw me out of it but then I was able to get back into it and roll with the title card thing. I can see the artistic choices for that. I like that there are so many non-sequiturs, like the part when the school counselor is moaning and its like "W-what the fuck is making her moan like that?" then you see she's rather enjoying cleaning her ears. The random factor hit and I laughed so fricking hard. Thank you Haibane for pointing out why that part of the end sequence looked kinda familiar. I guess it's kind of a blink and you miss it type thing. There was also a nod to Bleach with Fuura-san wearing a creepy white and black mask at the beginning of the end sequence. To be honest...most of the end sequence creeped me out. Is it me or did anyone else catch a reference to the Grudge in there too? *shivers and snuggles pillow remembering the movie* T__T

[Haibane]

I have only scraped the surface of anime like most fans have the time to do so I'm guessing there's several references in the ending title sequence to other dark anime, perhaps that's the point of all of the images; other anime that deal with death, depression and violence in some form. Perhaps others can comment who spot other in-jokes.

Yes, Night Rabbit I adored the school's lady counsellor who seemed to be the exact opposite of what a counsellor should be, being negative and nasty towards Zetsubou-Sensei saying it was "too early in the day to deal with this" when he came in and told her of his suicidal tendencies. :D Just the way the camera moved over her and the very simple style of her drawings still makes her come across as sensual, plus that fantastic earbud joke, so I'll be paying attention to her more! Again, a sexy, sensual school counsellor isn't something you'd really want. The anime is turning into a series of "humorous comments of opposites" so far I think.

[Tiaan]

Ok! I watched the first episode finally~

I really enjoyed it, some anime take a few episodes to draw me in and others just have me hooked from the first few minutes. This is one of the latter kind! I find it really refreshing when I see an anime that features adults more, especially in a high school setting it's pretty rare.

The students various 'disorders' make them very unique, which is refreshing. Maybe it's taking the kind of 'stock' classmates (you know the ones, the class president, the geeky boy, the tech-y girl etc) and pushing the moulds a bit to come up with these charicatures of the 'typical' school anime line up.

My favourite character so far has to be the school counselor; I laughed a lot at her and zetsubou's exchange. She reminds me of the English teacher from Azumanga Daiyo in some ways.

She's a high-school girl so she can't possibly be that stupidly innocent so she must be being kind to him

I am probably reading far more into it but... for me she seems more deluded than innocent and positive, as far as the hanging scene goes anyway. Damaged by her fathers attempts to take his life has made her unconsciously protect herself by refusing to see people hurt themselves... Also when she sees him she says "don't do it...", so she must've known what he was up to initially... but yea, probably just reading too much into what's just meant to be a funny joke!

Overall though, seems really great. The random stuff on the board made me laugh... 'if a student in Finland gets a cavity they have to stay back a year'... random!!! I live with a Finnish girl so it was even more funny and random for me I guess.

Anyway, great choice of series for this club!