Sci Fi Movies

[MagicalPen]

Lately, these have been making me a little more skeptical about the genre in general.

I mean, Alien Spaceships - SPACESHIPS - that travel gazillion miles an hour and survive landing on Earth, and you're really going to tell me that WW2-Era Weaponry can destroy them? I think not!

I mean, seriously...highly advanced species of aliens, interstellar travel, body armor, etc...and a little piece of metal traveling like a snail (compared to them) can blow them up? Especially when the Aliens can generate a shield around all of Hawaii that is impenetrable?

Yeah, I'm thinking human extinction would be the most likely result.

[bigwad73]

You forget that we humans know the secrets of "alphanumeric targeting".  No technological advancement can hold up to the sheer power of "E7" or "B3"!

I did like how they made some of the alien ordnance look like the marker pegs.

[Brandon]

Consider for a moment the cultural technology they've developed. Most alien races are seen as creating energy based weapons like lasers so it makes sense that their style of body armor would be made to repel that kind of weaponry. The same  cant be said for projectile weaponry thats usually not in use. So if you have a 1/4 inch thick suit of body armor made to lessen the damage of laser weapons why would it effect bullets in the same way?

If you have a portable shield made to absorb and redirect energy weapons why would it effect bullets in the same way when theyre being driven by kenetic energy

Thats how I look at such things

[Shjade]

I mean, seriously...highly advanced species of aliens, interstellar travel, body armor, etc...and a little piece of metal traveling like a snail (compared to them) can blow them up? Especially when the Aliens can generate a shield around all of Hawaii that is impenetrable?

When wearing a kevlar vest, you can get stabbed to death more easily than shot.

Just something to think about.

[MagicalPen]

True, true, but you would think that their armor - since its used in space - would be projectile-proof. Their spaceships for sure. You don't land in the ocean at a gazillion miles and hour, after traveling through space, only for little projectiles to blow you up.

[Brandon]

True, true, but you would think that their armor - since its used in space - would be projectile-proof. Their spaceships for sure. You don't land in the ocean at a gazillion miles and hour, after traveling through space, only for little projectiles to blow you up.

How so? Getting hit by a meteor isnt a regular occurance and for the really big stuff like a comet you're going to have some warning before it gets close enough to worry about.

Besides that every craft has some kind of vulnerability which is generally exploited in such movies. Independance day is a great example of that

[Torch]

It's a movie, y'all.

A movie named after a childhood board game.

And you are expecting realism? Seriously?

Good luck with that.

[Rinzler]

How so? Getting hit by a meteor isnt a regular occurance and for the really big stuff like a comet you're going to have some warning before it gets close enough to worry about.

If we're talking spaceships that can travel at near lightspeed, then collision with even the tiniest dust particles in space would not only be likely but catastrophic - from the perspective of the spaceship, these particles are heading towards it at near lightspeed. Therefore, it would be logically internally consistent with the story to have some seriously heavy-duty shielding on the crafts.

[MagicalPen]

Torch, I'm talking about SciFi movies in general.

Independence Day did it right though - they had to fly an Alien Space Ship into the Mother Space Ship to deliver a bomb. No low-level projectiles involved in that one.

If you just stop to think about things for a few moments though, it does make sense. If Space Traveling Alien Race has vehicles etc that a lowly RPG can destroy, then shouldn't we be close to that level of Space Travel ourselves? Clearly not a far-cry off.

[Torch]

Torch, I'm talking about SciFi movies in general.

Independence Day did it right though - they had to fly an Alien Space Ship into the Mother Space Ship to deliver a bomb. No low-level projectiles involved in that one.

If you just stop to think about things for a few moments though, it does make sense. If Space Traveling Alien Race has vehicles etc that a lowly RPG can destroy, then shouldn't we be close to that level of Space Travel ourselves? Clearly not a far-cry off.

Again, if you are looking for realism in a movie, you are going to be disappointed.

That's why it's a........movie.

Suspend your disbelief and enjoy your $14 worth of entertainment ($30 if you buy popcorn and a soda).

[MagicalPen]

Suspension of belief still has to be slightly logical. Sure, I can believe in Magic and stuff like that, but really? Alien Race with technology beyond our world is really going to be destroyed by RPGs and WW2 Era munitions? Not so  much.

[Torch]

Suspension of belief still has to be slightly logical.

Actually no, it doesn't.

But if the current crop of sci-fi films offend your sensibilities, there is an easy solution: Don't spend your hard earned cash at the box office.

There, problem solved!

[Rinzler]

Actually no, it doesn't.

But if the current crop of sci-fi films offend your sensibilities, there is an easy solution: Don't spend your hard earned cash at the box office.

There, problem solved!

I'd disagree - I think any story has to be logically internally consistent, otherwise the writers would just have free reign to incur any deus ex machina or equally silly and unsatisfying plot development they liked. Sure, if it's estiblished in a story that yes, there is a little tinkering with reality going on here, then firm boundaries need to be established on what these changes are in order to have a satisfying narrative. The best example of where it goes both right and wrong is in the Spiderman movies. Now there's no problem in tinkering with reality to the effect that a guy can get special powers from the bite of genetically altered spider - for the sake of the story, I can buy that. However, if such powers included resistance to bullets and the ability to phase through walls, then nah: it's not consistent within the context. This is where it all went wrong with Spiderman 3, where the internal 'coherence' was broken by relying too much on coincidences, such as the one in a googol chance that the only meteor bearing an alien lifeform should land, intact, right beside Peter Parker (the only man on earth with spider super-powers), and that the otherworldly occupant should just so happen to attach itself to Peter's moped.

[Torch]

*sighs*

There is no law that requires entertainment to do anything except....entertain.

I'm baffled by the insistence that it must pass some sort of criteria of realism.

Again.....it's just a movie, folks.

[Brandon]

More telling then it being a movie is the fact that it is a Science fiction movie. Fiction being the most important part. I understand that lack of realism in speculative science can kill the enjoyment for others and if thats the case just walk out of the theatre and get a refund.

It really is that easy

[Cold Heritage]

*sighs*

There is no law that requires entertainment to do anything except....entertain.

I'm baffled by the insistence that it must pass some sort of criteria of realism.

Again.....it's just a movie, folks.

So . . . what? We're not allowed to talk about movies? We can't say anything at all?

[JDrew Spider]

*pops in*


Soooo....anybody hear about that live action Cowboy Bebop movie that was suppose to come out?? Staring Keanu Reeves as Spike?

http://teaser-trailer.com/cowboy-bebop-live-action/

[Brandon]

Im not a big fan of cowboy bebop in the first place but why would you make a live action? Why not just watch the anime again?

[Callie Del Noire]

Im not a big fan of cowboy bebop in the first place but why would you make a live action? Why not just watch the anime again?

Because Hollywood steals/mauls/rapes any other format and/or venue for true creative creations.

[Chris Brady]

Suspension of belief still has to be slightly logical. Sure, I can believe in Magic and stuff like that, but really? Alien Race with technology beyond our world is really going to be destroyed by RPGs and WW2 Era munitions? Not so  much.

Ignoring Torch's apparent unwillingness to discuss this topic, I will say that Suspension of Disbelief matters on a few things.  One:  How much are you willing to invest into the setting presented.  Two:  Internal consistency.  It doesn't matter if it's all powered by Phlobtonium, it either has to be explained, or in the way Star Wars does it, make it seem like it's so normal that no one within said setting makes much of it.  To continue Star Wars here, Blasters? Speeders? Spaceships that can and can't break the speed of light?  All fantastical things, but the characters take it as normal, so the audience is encouraged to as well.  And lastly, how 'grounded' in common things is the setting in question.  In Star Wars, yes, Laser Swords, and Blasters and Speeders and Starships are all fantastical, but there are analogs we can identify, and as long we are willing to just accept some things just are (Like the Force) we can enjoy the film.

Of course, this is all subjective, and people have different levels of things they are willing to accept and things they aren't.  As long as they explain WHY World War 2 stuff can hurt the bad guys, I'm willing to see it.  Of course, it might just be so fun, you don't even notice.

Like in Independence Day, that fact that A) Earth styled computing worked on the Aliens.  B) You could create a virus using Earth code.  C) That an Apple product would be able to have a virus created on it.  Not to mention the length of time needed to do so with any sense of reliability.  But the movie was a lot of fun so no one actually questions that until AFTER the movie.  And even then a lot of people just shrugged and moved on.

[Brandon]

Because Hollywood steals/mauls/rapes any other format and/or venue for true creative creations.

No I mean why would a cowboy bebop fan bother going to that movie when they can just watch the anime again? I already knew that theres nothing sacred in hollywood

[Oniya]

It probably rides the line between the 'fans' (watched the anime start to finish - possibly tracked down the uncensored version) and the 'fanatics' (OMG, it's BEBOP!)

That said, I do think that Benedict Cumberbatch from the new Sherlock series would be a much better choice for Spike.  I can't find it now, but I saw an image that compared several iconic Spike shots with stills from Sherlock.

EDIT:

Okay, not the one I was looking for, but he makes this too easy.

[JDrew Spider]

I concur. I would just see it out of curiosity and because Keanu Reeves would be in it. I do like old school anime though.

[Callie Del Noire]

I always pictured Spike more as a Hong Kong type... given he was a member of a triad.. and much younger than Reeves. Benedict Cumberbatch seems to have the pull htough.. he's whip pole thing and energetic. :D

[Silverfyre]

Suspension of disbelief and logical consistences aside, I did want to pipe up about "Independence Day" getting it "right". 

One scene does it in for me if we are going down the whole "belief in science fiction is a good thing" method of thinking: Goldblum's character hacking the alien mother ship's computers.  No way, no how.  That was just beyond ridiculous in an already ridiculous movie. 

...a ridiculous movie that I have watched multiple times because it was entertaining.  That's why I watch most films after all.  To be entertained.

[Lilias]

The husband was pulling out his hair at the Mac virus. ::)

I read a lot at the time about the liberties taken with the mechanics of geostationary orbit (basically that a spaceship that size would affect gravity enough for buildings to start collapsing by themselves, and the invasion would be won without as much as a shot). Not sure if that is accurate... but the movie, among Greek movie-goers, has been forever dubbed Incoherence Day.

Good filler for late-night TV, still. Especially if Mars Attacks! follows just afterwards.

[Silverfyre]

I lost my virginity while watching "Mars Attacks".  True story.

[Oniya]

The husband was pulling out his hair at the Mac virus. ::)

I read a lot at the time about the liberties taken with the mechanics of geostationary orbit (basically that a spaceship that size would affect gravity enough for buildings to start collapsing by themselves, and the invasion would be won without as much as a shot). Not sure if that is accurate... but the movie, among Greek movie-goers, has been forever dubbed Incoherence Day.

Good filler for late-night TV, still. Especially if Mars Attacks! follows just afterwards.

It would depend on the mass of the spaceship.  I'd be more concerned about the downward thrusters, because I don't think that the velocity to remain geostationary would be enough to be orbital at atmospheric distance

[Callie Del Noire]

I get a bit growly at the scene in Con Air when they wire the control box up to 'spoof' the transponder. It is nothing but wires, diodes and a few switches.. whereas the  5 pound transmitter is elsewhere.

[Rinzler]

I dislike it when some people are plummeting to earth, only to get saved by being teleported somewhere else...and all that bone-crushing momentum suddenly disappears. Last time I saw this was in the J J Abrams Star Trek movie - which I admit, I did like, apart from that little niggle.

[Chris Brady]

Joss Whedon's Serenity was a good film until the strapped those dead bodies to the ship.  The human body is not designed to withstand atmospheric reentry!  Unless you're willing to take days entering a planetary atmosphere, which I was assuming the trying to look like Reavers they wouldn't do.

The second point of contention was 'space battle'.  Where they brilliantly harpooned another vessel to spin it around.  Ok two things.  Most vessels would likely have inertial dampening systems (which seems common enough for fantasy antigravity) so that would be a pointless tactic.  Or two, if the didn't the Reavers just killed themselves just as thoroughly as they did the alliance, ergo, bad move.

This of course is ignoring the true science bending, but I forgive because they went with a clearly more sci-fi theme, which I'm cool with.  Although I haven't forgiven him for Space Buffy.  ;D

[bigwad73]

I lost my virginity while watching "Mars Attacks".  True story.

Hmm. Perhaps "Venus Attacks" would have been a bit better name for a movie to have that happen during? 

[Silverfyre]

I'm pretty sure it was both of us attacking so the title still works if it was part of a duo.

[RubySlippers]

I would argue this you could be the armored knight against neanderthals with big stone axes but if there are twenty of them and one knight the knight would be in great danger, aliens could get here but we have billions of people. We as a species don't have the habit of going down without a fight especially if given no choice. And we as a race fight dirty when straight up fighting makes no sense to try. And they would be far, far from home with finite resources.

In a sustained fight over decades I would not count out the human species to win in the end.

The old V TV miniseries and series was a good example the aliens had an early win but in the end couldn't break the human race they wanted to avoid us going nuclear and we would not go nuclear so it ended up being a covert fight for the human resistance. That is how you win against a superior enemy you hit them in ways they cannot readily defend against and use terror make them want to go. You can't hurt their big ships fine then you hit what you can and work on weapons to do the job.

Movies usually need to resolve in a certain period of time so this sort of thing is not always practical the lengthy war approach.

[Healergirl]

For purposes of dramatic tension, the weapons tech gap betwee ninvdters and defenders is often underrated.  I can accept that for the sake of Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, and sit back and enjoy the show.

For me, a bigger problem is the motivation of the Invaders.

They all seem to be a collection of genocidal loons.  Nearly all of them seem to want to wipe us out.  A shining counterexample is the alien government of which Klaatu and Gort are agents in the original Day The Earth Stood Still.   They come here to deliver a message:  "We don't like the road you are headed down.  We will not allow you to become a threat to us.  And Klaatu bent over backward to avoid killing anybody while making his point about the relative balance of power.

Which is why I won't watch the remake, the aliens in that movie revert to the genocidal loon standard type.

I'd love to see something different, more complex.  My aborted Domino Theory game was to be an exploration of that, Earth is discovered by more than one  squabbling interstellar power in quick succession, the aliens get dragged into Cold War politics somewhat against their will, find that they are dancing to the tune as much as calling it,  hilarity ensues.  (Alien invasion and late 1960's political tension and social upheaval?  What could possibly go wrong?)

Or another example, it has been said that Trade Follows The Flag.  It might be more accurate to say The Flag Follows Trade.  How about a story of competing merchant explorers - whose competition could get literally cutthroat, just read a history of the Spice trade on Earth.  And then the alien government types show up. Again,  Hilarity ensues.

But this would be harder to write.

[Cecilia]

Saw this recently and thought of this discussion...My hubby and I have been watching Eureka and have COMPLETELY given up on thinking there's any "reality" to that show...

[Oniya]

I've got an issue with the idea of lasers being 'faster-than-light weapons'.  Coherent light is no faster than regular light.

[bigwad73]

I've got an issue with the idea of lasers being 'faster-than-light weapons'.  Coherent light is no faster than regular light.

Yeah, ST got around that by waving their hands at it and calling their directed energy weapons "phasers".  But from what I've read, there wasn't a lot of deep thought in it, but something more like, "We know what lasers can do.  But we want something better.  Hmmmm..."

Saw this recently and thought of this discussion...My hubby and I have been watching Eureka and have COMPLETELY given up on thinking there's any "reality" to that show...

By the way, Cecilia, I like that chart.  Is it from the Bad Astronomy guy, or someone else, or is it home grown?

[Cecilia]

By the way, Cecilia, I like that chart.  Is it from the Bad Astronomy guy, or someone else, or is it home grown?

Took me a minute to track it down...Looks like it was posted here originally:  (?)

http://io9.com/

[Rinzler]

^They should have added 'Aliens that speak colloquial English with no explanation for it' to that chart.

I'll happily accept some sort of translation gadget, telepathy, the fact that they've been observing earth people for years...but when the aliens just start torkin right proper English, mate, with no explanation as to why, it makes my suspended disbelief squirm like the Tacoma Narrows in a high wind.

[Brandon]

^They should have added 'Aliens that speak colloquial English with no explanation for it' to that chart.

I'll happily accept some sort of translation gadget, telepathy, the fact that they've been observing earth people for years...but when the aliens just start torkin right proper English, mate, with no explanation as to why, it makes my suspended disbelief squirm like the Tacoma Narrows in a high wind.

I agree with that. If they had just started with a few words in another language, then pressed a few buttons on their suit before they spoke english, it would have been much better. It reminds me of the beginning of final fantasy X where the main character winds up in a temple in the middle of nowhere then the first humans he meets start speaking a foreign tongue. It makes for a more gripping and real introduction

[Neysha]

Remind me not to watch a Sci Fi movie with any of you people. :)

[Healergirl]

Ok, I generally keep my opinions to myself during th film.  But if yu had asked me afterwards about, say, Indepenence Day, I would have said "Where do I start?"  Then I would have taken a deep breath and started.

Same with war films.  I sat at my dad's feet whil he and my uncles and their buddies swaped stories about the Real Thing in Korea and Vietman.  I have no tolerance for most warr movies.  A few, like Blackhawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, The Pacific  I like.  The others... Nope.

[Cecilia]

In theaters, I'm quiet as can be.  I HATE it when people talk around me, too.  At home I might say, "Oh, Come OOOOOOnnnnnn, You've GOT to be kidding..."  But I don't go into long discourse over what I'm annoyed with until after the movie.  That's half the fun of seeing a movie though, is talking about it afterward, and with Sci-fi, half the fun is picking it apart. 

^They should have added 'Aliens that speak colloquial English with no explanation for it' to that chart.

I'll happily accept some sort of translation gadget, telepathy, the fact that they've been observing earth people for years...but when the aliens just start torkin right proper English, mate, with no explanation as to why, it makes my suspended disbelief squirm like the Tacoma Narrows in a high wind.

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

[Rinzler]

Re:

^They should have added 'Aliens that speak colloquial English with no explanation for it' to that chart.

I'll happily accept some sort of translation gadget, telepathy, the fact that they've been observing earth people for years...but when the aliens just start torkin right proper English, mate, with no explanation as to why, it makes my suspended disbelief squirm like the Tacoma Narrows in a high wind.

Zak The Alien (NTNOCN)

[Oniya]

In theaters, I'm quiet as can be.  I HATE it when people talk around me, too.  At home I might say, "Oh, Come OOOOOOnnnnnn, You've GOT to be kidding..."  But I don't go into long discourse over what I'm annoyed with until after the movie.  That's half the fun of seeing a movie though, is talking about it afterward, and with Sci-fi, half the fun is picking it apart. 

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

Shaka, his arms wide.

[Cecilia]

*grins*
Sokath, his eyes uncovered.

(Can't think of a better example of the struggle of communication between two races and ways of thinking...)

[Healergirl]

(nods in agreement)  that was a primo episode, the only episode I can remember where the aliens, alth0ough humanoid, had a truly unusual thought-pattern when it came to communicating.

[bigwad73]

Courtesy of XKCD: