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Author Topic: Star Wars sequels  (Read 156 times)

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Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #25 on: Today at 11:21:20 AM »
I liked TFA. It was almost scene-for-scene an updated remake of ANH, but it did it well enough to still be enjoyable. It mashed my nostalgia buttons solidly enough that it was fun for all of its play-it-safe lack of originality.

TLJ...didnt'. There was a good movie inside it, there were several good movies inside it. But as others have said, the pacing of the movie was incredibly inconsistent to me. You had three seemingly separate and unrelated plotlines moving at different paces but still resolving at the same time:
1) The tense chase scene - suddenly inventing 'space gas' as a tension-building plot device was silly, but tolerably slow. But it was a high-tension subplot with a very specific and limited time limit, like seventeen hours IIRC.
2) The utterly irrelevant casino planet. If there was anything I can think of there that actually mattered, it was Rey handing the slave kid her emblem so he could be holding it at the end of the movie before TK-ing his broom. But the entire rest of the scene was long, flashy, and didn't contribute anything to the narrative; at the end they were in exactly the same situation as if they had never even left. And it felt like it lasted for a long time, at least long enough for them to spend hours locked up in jail.
3) Rey trying to get Luke to train her. This was the worst of the pacing problems. If that scene didn't last for weeks, it should have been days at minimum. At the very minimum we know it lasted overnight because of Chewbacca snacking on a Porg, which forces a tremendous amount of characterization flip-flopping and actual activity into a handful of hours the next day.

Trying to weave those three subplots together with massively different tonal pacing strained my limits of credulity far more than hyperspace ramming nonsense, crude gravity bombers replacing B-Wings/Y-Wings, or Poe not being shot for mutiny in the face of the enemy. (But really, opening the movie with an extended Yo Momma joke was an awful, awful decision that destroyed the mood of that scene.)

I also got a distinct sense that Johnson was more concerned with burning down Abram's trademark mystery boxes than he was in really innovating anything of his own? Rey's unknown parentage? Doesn't matter they were literal nobodies who sold her for drug money. The origins of Snoke? Doesn't matter he gets murderchopped (admittedly a scene done well). There was clearly no communication between the two directors in the interests of forging a coherent story from Part 1 to Part 2, and it shows.

On Ren: I enjoyed him in TFA. Abrams knew that no matter how well he made his new evil force user, they would inevitably be considered against/compared to Darth Vader, an impossible level to match. So he went hole-hog, embraced the inevitability, and created a wannabe Darth Vader in-universe; someone mocked by everyone around him and strugging to achieve an impossible ideal. It was brilliantly meta, and presented a good picture of someone still sliding down the Dark Side slope against their instincts. Ren in TLJ completely failed to follow through on that - his point of no return was murdering his father, and in TFA he knew it. In TLJ Johnson wound back his character development and tried to do the same thing again with Leia, in addition to spending 2/3 of the movie teasing a romantic link between him and Rey only to unceremoniously dump it as Snoke's Big Plan. When Ren goes whole hog EEEEEEVIL, it strips away what was left of his interesting characterization and leaves him exactly what he feared he was in the beginning, a weak and inferior Darth Vader imitation.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #26 on: Today at 01:12:55 PM »
I liked TFA. It was almost scene-for-scene an updated remake of ANH, but it did it well enough to still be enjoyable. It mashed my nostalgia buttons solidly enough that it was fun for all of its play-it-safe lack of originality.

TLJ...didnt'. There was a good movie inside it, there were several good movies inside it. But as others have said, the pacing of the movie was incredibly inconsistent to me. You had three seemingly separate and unrelated plotlines moving at different paces but still resolving at the same time:
1) The tense chase scene - suddenly inventing 'space gas' as a tension-building plot device was silly, but tolerably slow. But it was a high-tension subplot with a very specific and limited time limit, like seventeen hours IIRC.
2) The utterly irrelevant casino planet. If there was anything I can think of there that actually mattered, it was Rey handing the slave kid her emblem so he could be holding it at the end of the movie before TK-ing his broom. But the entire rest of the scene was long, flashy, and didn't contribute anything to the narrative; at the end they were in exactly the same situation as if they had never even left. And it felt like it lasted for a long time, at least long enough for them to spend hours locked up in jail.
3) Rey trying to get Luke to train her. This was the worst of the pacing problems. If that scene didn't last for weeks, it should have been days at minimum. At the very minimum we know it lasted overnight because of Chewbacca snacking on a Porg, which forces a tremendous amount of characterization flip-flopping and actual activity into a handful of hours the next day.

Trying to weave those three subplots together with massively different tonal pacing strained my limits of credulity far more than hyperspace ramming nonsense, crude gravity bombers replacing B-Wings/Y-Wings, or Poe not being shot for mutiny in the face of the enemy. (But really, opening the movie with an extended Yo Momma joke was an awful, awful decision that destroyed the mood of that scene.)

I also got a distinct sense that Johnson was more concerned with burning down Abram's trademark mystery boxes than he was in really innovating anything of his own? Rey's unknown parentage? Doesn't matter they were literal nobodies who sold her for drug money. The origins of Snoke? Doesn't matter he gets murderchopped (admittedly a scene done well). There was clearly no communication between the two directors in the interests of forging a coherent story from Part 1 to Part 2, and it shows.

On Ren: I enjoyed him in TFA. Abrams knew that no matter how well he made his new evil force user, they would inevitably be considered against/compared to Darth Vader, an impossible level to match. So he went hole-hog, embraced the inevitability, and created a wannabe Darth Vader in-universe; someone mocked by everyone around him and strugging to achieve an impossible ideal. It was brilliantly meta, and presented a good picture of someone still sliding down the Dark Side slope against their instincts. Ren in TLJ completely failed to follow through on that - his point of no return was murdering his father, and in TFA he knew it. In TLJ Johnson wound back his character development and tried to do the same thing again with Leia, in addition to spending 2/3 of the movie teasing a romantic link between him and Rey only to unceremoniously dump it as Snoke's Big Plan. When Ren goes whole hog EEEEEEVIL, it strips away what was left of his interesting characterization and leaves him exactly what he feared he was in the beginning, a weak and inferior Darth Vader imitation.


Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #27 on: Today at 01:20:06 PM »
Re-reading my own quote, that's 'tolerably so, not slow. Star Wars ships have always given the middle finger to Newton when they're not pretending to be atmospheric craft, so 'space gas' that runs out and immediately causes a ship to lose all its velocity is right in line with the universe's pseudo-physics.

Offline RedRose

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #28 on: Today at 02:52:00 PM »
He probably can't kill his mother. It's good, keeps him human. I really really really hope they won't go the "Snoke brainwashed him poor him" road and blame Han's death on that. Even though yes, Snoke brainwashed him.

I've read a potential spoiler.

sucky spoiler
The First Order and the resistance need to ally against a more powerful and more deadly enemy. It could be interesting and yet… lame. Because it will make Kylo and/or Hux not "really" the enemy anymore, and hence easier to redeem/marry/whatever.

I'd pay to see Rey with Kylo despite his "issues" ;)

Online Azuresun

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #29 on: Today at 03:44:52 PM »
Kylo I can see them wanting him to repent and go back crying to mom/Rey/Chewie (lol). Hope not. I'm not against redemption at all. Darth Vader's one was good, because he was always into his family and the emperor betrayed him.

It's a tangent, but one thing I think the prequels did right is that they greatly deepen Vader's arc in the original trilogy. When Anakin believes he's responsible for the death of his wife and children, that's what breaks him. The atrocities he committed and people he betrayed to secure their safety turned out to be for nothing, and all he can do is cling to the role of Palpatine's enforcer to give his wretched existence some meaning. But then he finds out that his children survived--and pretty much from that moment, Palpatine's power over him is broken.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:48:16 PM by Azuresun »