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Ninjas v. Pirates

Started by Oniya, August 08, 2009, 08:42:07 PM

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Oniya

Slight silliness here.  My husband is working with an amateur 'pirate theater' group (they get hired for events, but it's more hobby than 'work'), and they've been asked to do a 'pirates versus ninja' act for a wedding.  The problem is, while they have plenty of lines for why pirates are better than ninjas, they need some lines for why ninjas are better than pirates.

So I ask the fine people of E - why are ninjas better than pirates?
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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Andy

Quote from: Oniya on November 15, 2012, 09:32:19 PM
Remember:  Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a way that they thank you for the vacation tip.

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Andy

Because they have more equipment that is more awesome.
Quote from: Oniya on November 15, 2012, 09:32:19 PM
Remember:  Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a way that they thank you for the vacation tip.

Andys Creations: http://www.f-list.net/c/nullah%20mighthoof/

SleepyWei

#3
So... you're saying that a ninja with a shuriken or blowgun can beat a pirate who has a pistol or rifle?

I honestly think pirates are better overall compared to ninjas but well... I suppose I have to give ninjas their ingenuity in turning simple farming tools to very affective disarming and killing weapons.

And I suppose they look better than the stereotypical mangy pirates.  ???

Edit: And for the record, real ninjas don't have those handseal = superpower attacks like that kid show Naruto.

Andy

well.. okay i can agree on that, but, Ninjas are stealthy pinpoit attacks and disarming their opponents, against a pirate, they are deadly if they get to strike first.
Quote from: Oniya on November 15, 2012, 09:32:19 PM
Remember:  Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a way that they thank you for the vacation tip.

Andys Creations: http://www.f-list.net/c/nullah%20mighthoof/

SleepyWei

Which takes skills, which also means that the ninja would need a good amount of training.

The pirate's gear focuses on weapons that go BOOM! Their guns and other armaments basically are perfect for attack a lot of things at once so in a sense, a pirate's first attack can also be the finishing one, like your ninja.

The difference is that a pirate does not need a lot of training for that stuff. Just pull the trigger and there goes the round.

Vekseid

Explaining ninjas really isn't complete without: http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

The black outfits almost certainly come from Kuroko however.

Chevalier des Poissons

-I have Maro's heart, and I promise to take good care of it-

A & A

Tachi

From a button I have: "Lets see a nancy ninja wield a sword while drinking grog, aye?"

pimpdan

Pirate guns weren't really accurate as well, plus stealth kill means pirate has no chance. Also a ninja won't rob you blind and drink all your rum so are nicer to have around.

Vandren

One I caught earlier:

"Ninja are where it's at, buddy. Oh sure, pirates sound great. High seas. Shoulder-mounted pets. Punctuating everything wtih "arrr." Yeah, y'know what else they have? Scurvy."

- courtesy of SJGames Daily Illuminator
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei


BluDragonX

Ninjas win because all they have to do is steal the fruit for a ship and it would killl the hole crew of pirates from scurvy. there for Ninjas win I alose have a pic but since I am new I cant post it on  why ninjas would win.

Sabby

For me, the whole 'who would win in a fight approach' is just stupid xD OBVIOUSLY, the better fighter would win. You can say Superman is better because he would crush Batman with his finger, but that doesn't mean he's cooler.

So for me, its a question of awesomeness, and Pirates win hands down, even though wouldn't stand a chance in a bar brawl with a Ninja

BluDragonX

Quote from: Sabby on August 20, 2009, 12:51:14 AM
For me, the whole 'who would win in a fight approach' is just stupid xD OBVIOUSLY, the better fighter would win. You can say Superman is better because he would crush Batman with his finger, but that doesn't mean he's cooler.

So for me, its a question of awesomeness, and Pirates win hands down, even though wouldn't stand a chance in a bar brawl with a Ninja

Ok while I totley dis agger on the part of who is cooler I will give you props for thinking it out and wording it that way that was is the smartest thing I have ever heard for this debate.

Sabby

Its just common sense. All 'who is better' debates have no correct answer. Its a question of preference. If the quest, however, was "If you put a Ninja and Pirate in the Octagon, who would walk out alive?" Then Ninja is more then likely guna be the answer :)

The Overlord

Quote from: SleepyWei on August 08, 2009, 10:09:00 PM
Which takes skills, which also means that the ninja would need a good amount of training.


Is assuming there are lots of untrained ninja running around out there, which seems to be an oxymoron. That's why they are ninja.

Oniya

Quote from: Sabby on August 20, 2009, 12:51:14 AM
So for me, its a question of awesomeness, and Pirates win hands down, even though wouldn't stand a chance in a bar brawl with a Ninja

It is, in fact, intended to be a question of awesome, and pirates do, in fact, rule.  That's why we were having trouble coming up with a whole lot for the ninjas to say other than 'Pirates got bought out by Disney!' - to which the pirates reply 'Two words:  Michael Dudikoff!'   ::)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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Avis habilis

You'll note that ninja still have all their original parts. Ever seen a hook-handed, peg-legged, one-eyed ninja? You have not.

Inkidu

Ninja's have stealth, formal sword training (yes despite all the movies pirates chose guns four out of five because they didn't have to get in close).

Let's see. Better hand to hand skills, better mobility. Sai, kama, kunai. They both fight pretty dirty. There weapons don't have to be reloaded, or reload considerably faster.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Avis habilis

Ninja get cooler kit: blowguns, poison, tetsubishi, shuriken, you name it.

They've also got that hypnotic finger-weaving thing going. Try that with a hook for a hand, matey!

Inkidu

Quote from: Avis habilis on August 20, 2009, 03:39:49 PM
Ninja get cooler kit: blowguns, poison, tetsubishi, shuriken, you name it.

They've also got that hypnotic finger-weaving thing going. Try that with a hook for a hand, matey!
Ninjas have two eyes pirates mostly have one?
Depth perception is key.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Avis habilis

Quote from: Inkidu on August 20, 2009, 06:41:52 PM
Ninjas have two eyes pirates mostly have one?
Depth perception is key.

I reckon that's why they have to stick to firearms instead of throwing stuff. Can't aim worth a damn without stereoptic vision.

TheVillain

Pirates, definitely. Ninjas only seemed badass because they went against Samurai by mastering the one thing a Samurai was never supposed to do. Namely, cheating.

But a Pirate can also cheat very well, so you have a one trick pony against someone much more versatile. The ninja's showing would be respectable, but I gotta give this to the pirate.
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Inkidu

Quote from: TheVillain on August 22, 2009, 04:41:09 PM
Pirates, definitely. Ninjas only seemed badass because they went against Samurai by mastering the one thing a Samurai was never supposed to do. Namely, cheating.

But a Pirate can also cheat very well, so you have a one trick pony against someone much more versatile. The ninja's showing would be respectable, but I gotta give this to the pirate.
Lets look at the roster here:

Ninjas:

Black eggs (powdered glass filled eggs)
Ninjuto (Short sword)
Shuriken (no matter how they're thrown they hit with the blade)
blow gun with puffer fish poison
Kama and chain
sai

Pirates:

Musket
Cutlass
Blunderbuss (Shotgun of the time)
clay pot grenades

All of witch are muzzle-loaded one shots. Most of a pirates power was in his ship. Heck they might not even be able to swim. :)

The pirates have the range, but the ninja has the close in.

Ninja were not a one-trick pony, samurai could blur lines when they wanted to. Personally I think a Spartan warrior would kick both of them up and down the street.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

SleepyWei

If your getting your results from the 'Deadliest Warrior' show then I highly suggest you to rethink everything.

A pirate also has the follow:

Buckler
Dagger
Tomahawks
Caltrop

Those weapons were very affective in close hand combat and both Tomahawks and caltrop were good for range as well. Also, I'd like to see the ninja being able to dodge something that's small and fast like a bullet. They may have trained themselves on dodging arrows or maybe even blow darts but a bullet brings a whole new level to speed that I doubt they would ever have known.

Saying pirates cannot swim is downright insulting to them. Most pirates used to be professional sailors for the navy before they were cut loose thanks to disarmament. That led them to take to piracy. Also, don't go and stereotype pirates as eye-patch and peg legs with hook arms. That's like stereotyping guys with glasses as being smart.

And also, I personally think the Spartan would have had his butt handed to him by the pirate. Hell, the pirate's guns could blow past steel. What can his more weaker and heavier bronze armor do against that?

Paradox

Quote from: Inkidu on August 23, 2009, 05:06:18 PM
Ninja were not a one-trick pony, samurai could blur lines when they wanted to.

Those are two different styles of warrior!


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

HairyHeretic

I suspect the ninja would simply sneak aboard the pirates ship, poison the food / water / rum and leave, and wait for the pirates to drop dead :)
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Oniya

Most likely the rum - be sure to get everyone that way.  ;)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Inkidu

Quote from: Paradox on August 23, 2009, 06:31:45 PM
Those are two different styles of warrior!
No, the way the original post was put made it sound like samurai were honor-infallible on the battlefield and met their opponents full-on.

Such was not the case.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Avis habilis

Quote from: Oniya on August 23, 2009, 06:46:24 PM
Most likely the rum - be sure to get everyone that way.  ;)

Plus what with the whole master-of-disguise thing, you can never be sure that some of your alleged pirates aren't actually ninja!

Captain Maltese

I wrote this once...

Pirate versus Ninja
(a slightly less than neutral comparison)

Upbringing:
Ninjas: living rigidly in a monastery from about five, surrounded by monks and eunuchs
Pirates: born in the slum, growing up hand-to-mouth in the docks and going to sea at the age of nine

Chosen loves:
Ninjas: demure girls of etiquette and well behaviour, be they schoolgirls or geishas
Pirates: drunken whores or runaway governors' daughters, which amounts to pretty much the same

Healing:
Ninja: wisened oriental doctors will cure poisons with herbal treatments and do flawless amputations.
Pirates: drunk and fatalistic quacks will cure poisons with hot rum and do amputations.

Drinking:
Ninja: tea and sake, both in tightly measured amounts; preferably served in elaborate ceremonies
Pirate: beer, grog, cognac, rum, wine, and in a pinch small remnants of all of the above slushed into one glass; served with a thump on the table, or with a giggle on the bedstand, or with a catsnarl in your face.

Combat technique:
Ninjas: elaborate fighting skills acquired through countless hours of studying and training
Pirates: less elaborate fighting skills, acquired through countless brawls and fistfights, and living on a rolling sailship with a hundred other malicious thugs

Weapons:
Ninjas: katanas, throwing stars, blowpipes, all optimally constructed for a silent kill
Pirates: sabers, muskets, merlin spikes, daggers, bar stools, broken bottles

Hierarchy:
Ninjas: complete obedience to the elders and masters until he should one unlikely day be chosen to sit among them
Pirates: gets to vote one of his own mates to be his captain and can be chosen if his mates thinks he'll do the job well


Successfull career goal:
Ninja: becoming a teacher, savoring the respect of the pupils and watch the sunrise from the roof of your own dojo while drinking tea
Pirate: become filthy rich, be pardoned by the governor, have the hottest girl in town for your wife and watch the sunrise as you stagger in bed with her and her twin sister after the night's party

Usual death:
Ninja: poison accident, intelligent bodyguard, or mission betrayed by own master for political reasons
Pirate: fatal venerary disease, Marine musket bayonet piercing, falling from the rig, or a short fall with a hard stop



Conclusion:
Ninja: lives a life of seclusion, training, discipline and dignity, working only for the greater good of the monastery. Or rather, for the political ambitions of the leaders of the monastery. He'll never leave the monastery.
Pirate: lives a life of poverty and lawbreaking, pleasures are raw and base, he cares only for himself and his shipmates and his family, and will likely never come out of the slum.


But while the ninja will have lived a life as a tool barely permitted to live a life of his own the pirate will have been his own man, until the last gurgle in his choking throat.

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BluDragonX

#32
Ok I have been needing to add this pic to this tread for soem time now.


Paradox



"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

BluDragonX

ggrr Why did it not work.. dam it

TheWriter

Little-known fact for those saying firearms are the decider: if a ninja anticipated combat against ranged weaponry, they would don chainmail underneath their garb.

Also ninjas, because the lifetime of training and missions that everyone's talking about give them killer figures.  All you'll get from a life of drinking rum and shooting things is a beer gut.

Captain Maltese

A pirate is a sailor on a ship. His day consists of climbing in rigging and carrying heavy stuff under a boiling sun, and the food isnt exactly fattened and sweetened to taste better. Beer gut....right.

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Callie Del Noire

Pirates..... Ninjas.. Meh..


I see them all and raise you NAVY SEALS! MUhahahahah


Basically Pirates who ARE Ninjas!

neener

SleepyWei

Quote from: TheWriter on August 27, 2009, 11:55:01 AM
Little-known fact for those saying firearms are the decider: if a ninja anticipated combat against ranged weaponry, they would don chainmail underneath their garb.

Also ninjas, because the lifetime of training and missions that everyone's talking about give them killer figures.  All you'll get from a life of drinking rum and shooting things is a beer gut.


First of all, a chainmail won't do jack against a pirate's version of the shotgun. Second of all, if that girl is a ninja, then I highly advise her to seek a better occupation. Red makes her an eyesore even at night.

And I think that former navy soldiers have much better training than a ninja.

Captain Maltese

Ninjas are probably trained better to be murderers than pirates are, let's accept that. But in a fight those silent moves are wasted once it's on.

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BluDragonX

take 2 on adding the pick

That works

TheWriter

Quote from: SleepyWei on August 27, 2009, 04:34:08 PM
First of all, a chainmail won't do jack against a pirate's version of the shotgun.
Shotguns as we know them didn't come into common use until the 18th century.  Provided we're comparing them to ninjas at the height of their proliferation in the 16th century, gunfire was still single-shot slugs.  It'll knock a ninja down, definitely, but the chainmain would ensure it certainly wouldn't keep him there.  And that's being generous to start with, presuming the pirate would get his shot off.

QuoteSecond of all, if that girl is a ninja, then I highly advise her to seek a better occupation. Red makes her an eyesore even at night.
I will hear not one word against Taki.  Besides, my point still stands; you might call the sight of her an eyesore, but I call her a sight for sore eyes.

QuoteAnd I think that former navy soldiers have much better training than a ninja.
To be fair, not every pirate was a former navy soldier.

Captain Maltese

Quote from: TheWriter on August 28, 2009, 04:14:41 AM
Shotguns as we know them didn't come into common use until the 18th century.  Provided we're comparing them to ninjas at the height of their proliferation in the 16th century, gunfire was still single-shot slugs.  It'll knock a ninja down, definitely, but the chainmain would ensure it certainly wouldn't keep him there.  And that's being generous to start with, presuming the pirate would get his shot off.
I will hear not one word against Taki.  Besides, my point still stands; you might call the sight of her an eyesore, but I call her a sight for sore eyes.
To be fair, not every pirate was a former navy soldier.

Um. Chainmail doesn't stop a lead bullet, even if it's just a black powder one. If it had, Napoleon and Wellingtomn's troops would have presented a different sight indeed.

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WhiteyChan

As a member of the Kontraband.com forum, I must insist that ninjas will always win against pirates.

TheWriter

#44
Quote from: Cpt Corto Maltese on August 28, 2009, 06:32:05 AM
Um. Chainmail doesn't stop a lead bullet, even if it's just a black powder one. If it had, Napoleon and Wellington's troops would have presented a different sight indeed.
I didn't say it wouldn't.  I'm sure it'd still hurt like hell, but punching through chainmail would dampen a lot of the stopping power.  Besides, Napoleon and Wellington's armies were, again, 19th century forces.  Ninja, who can be traced back as far as the 600s, predate them by over a millenium.  My argument is that pirates of that era wouldn't have access to the inarguably superior weaponry you're championing.  It's like saying that Gauls were better than Romans because modern day France has a bigger nuclear stockpile than Italy.

Also, I'm about to go off on a massive tangent here, so bear with me.

It's true that the proliferation of firearms in Japan was one of the major forces that effectively eradicated the feudal era, alongside the Western traders that introduced them, but that brings me to why I disagree with the comparison between pirates and ninja: these are two archetypes of warriors separated not just by time or lifestyle.  There was a time that to sail the open seas meant encountering pirates, preparing merchant vessels for do-or-die battles against pirates which if popular culture has taught us anything they inevitably lose.  One begs to ask, what happened?  In the same vein, what happened to the vikings?  The Mongols?  Destroyed by their own reputation, by an ambitious force wanting to unite the world, be it the British Empire, the Normans, the Romans, or even the East India Trade Co.  Their kind were wiped from the face of the earth, as were the samurai.  But at the same time, what of the ninja?  Yes, Joe Schmuck on the street corner can learn how to fight like they did, what Edo-period gadgets have been popularized by modern culture are easily explained and replicated, but very little is known about the workings of the ninja, how they truly functioned in society. 

While famous pirates can be named in the dozens, like Francis Drake, Calico Jack, Black Sam Bellamy, etc; with ninja you get a list of names of people who could've been ninja, such as Hanzo Hattori, Sasuke Sarutobi or Kotaro Fuuma, and even then these were merely samurai with peculiar interests, or several warriors given one moniker, or may have simply never existed at all.  The point is, there is no one person in history that can be pointed at as an example of a ninja, only myths, legends, ghost stories.  They acted on a level of secrecy unprecedented in their time; for all anyone knows they could still exist today, if in a less romanticized form like modern pirates.  The bottom line is, pirates and ninja are separated not just by time, but by infamy.  As far as I'm concerned it'd be more apt to compare ninja to something like the Illuminati than with pirates.  After all, how can something vanish without a trace if it left next to no trace to begin with?

Defiance

To help the troupe that needed helping in the first place;

If it's supposed to have a "ninjas are better" kinda spin to it, then a performance where a group of pirates are slowly taken down by ninjas, followed by a duel between said ninja and the pirate captain in which something silly ends up leaving the pirate captain unable to battle/be defeated, would probably serve.

Laughter, suspense, murder, fighting...

Great show all around, says I.

Captain Maltese

Well, since I love this topic...

TheWriter, the reason that the ninja didn't have any famous fighters is that they were - as far as I'm aware - monks. Well trained, but none the less cannon fodder for sale for money, or religious or political gain.

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Oniya

Actually, it was supposed to be a bit of banter between the ninjas and pirates before a bit of fighting, lots of dying, and then essentially Phoenix Downs all around.

Bits like 'Ninjas have a long history based in tradition.  You got bought out by Disney.'
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Captain Maltese

'Yeah, but your kind is called terrorists today!'

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TheWriter

#49
Quote from: Cpt Corto Maltese on August 28, 2009, 10:12:58 AM
TheWriter, the reason that the ninja didn't have any famous fighters is that they were - as far as I'm aware - monks. Well trained, but none the less cannon fodder for sale for money, or religious or political gain.
If any caste were used as cannon fodder, it were the bushi: entry-level warriors, the burger-flippers of the samurai world.  Even then, if they could be spared in lieu of peasant volunteers or militia, all the better.  Ninja operated outside of the caste system; they were respected as warriors of incredible aptitude and loyalty, but seen as below the samurai for resorting to 'dishonorable' means.

Ninja were considered too useful to waste as fodder, and were used much in the same way as modern armies' special forces units; espionage, protection, assassination, essentially anything the samurai didn't want to soil their hands or their honor with.  While there were mercenary ninja clans that worked for whoever paid more, it's generally accepted (but understandably difficult to prove) that more than one great leader had a ninja clan under oath to him, such as the Hojo family's assumed arrangement with the Fuuma ninja clan.

The equivalent of monks in medieval Japan were, well, monks.  Having said that, even monks could rise to positions of power; the most notable of which was Kenshin Uesugi, a Buddhist monk who rose as high as daimyo (the rough equivalent of a lord or earl), and attained such skill in battle to be reputed as the reincarnation of their god of war, Bishamonten.

Oh, and before we get ahead of ourselves:

Captain Maltese

Well, obviously I didn't mean cannon fodder in the literal sense, being marched into the battlefield in ranks. They were specialists. But like the arcanii of the romans a thousand years earlier or terrorists of today, expendables without family ties.

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Vekseid

Quote from: TheWriter on August 28, 2009, 09:47:23 AM
I didn't say it wouldn't.  I'm sure it'd still hurt like hell, but punching through chainmail would dampen a lot of the stopping power.  Besides, Napoleon and Wellington's armies were, again, 19th century forces.  Ninja, who can be traced back as far as the 600s, predate them by over a millenium.  My argument is that pirates of that era wouldn't have access to the inarguably superior weaponry you're championing.  It's like saying that Gauls were better than Romans because modern day France has a bigger nuclear stockpile than Italy.

Comparing periods regarding Japanese equipment is a quickly losing battle. At no point in world history has the Japanese archipelago held superior military equipment. They've had to make do with inferior ores, less of them, and greater cultural homogeneity. Japanese armors were always heavier, less maneuverable and less protective, and their weapons follow suit.

Quote
Also, I'm about to go off on a massive tangent here, so bear with me.

It's true that the proliferation of firearms in Japan was one of the major forces that effectively eradicated the feudal era, alongside the Western traders that introduced them, but that brings me to why I disagree with the comparison between pirates and ninja: these are two archetypes of warriors separated not just by time or lifestyle.  There was a time that to sail the open seas meant encountering pirates, preparing merchant vessels for do-or-die battles against pirates which if popular culture has taught us anything they inevitably lose.  One begs to ask, what happened?  In the same vein, what happened to the vikings?  The Mongols?  Destroyed by their own reputation, by an ambitious force wanting to unite the world, be it the British Empire, the Normans, the Romans, or even the East India Trade Co.  Their kind were wiped from the face of the earth, as were the samurai.  But at the same time, what of the ninja?  Yes, Joe Schmuck on the street corner can learn how to fight like they did, what Edo-period gadgets have been popularized by modern culture are easily explained and replicated, but very little is known about the workings of the ninja, how they truly functioned in society. 

While famous pirates can be named in the dozens, like Francis Drake, Calico Jack, Black Sam Bellamy, etc; with ninja you get a list of names of people who could've been ninja, such as Hanzo Hattori, Sasuke Sarutobi or Kotaro Fuuma, and even then these were merely samurai with peculiar interests, or several warriors given one moniker, or may have simply never existed at all.  The point is, there is no one person in history that can be pointed at as an example of a ninja, only myths, legends, ghost stories.  They acted on a level of secrecy unprecedented in their time; for all anyone knows they could still exist today, if in a less romanticized form like modern pirates.  The bottom line is, pirates and ninja are separated not just by time, but by infamy.  As far as I'm concerned it'd be more apt to compare ninja to something like the Illuminati than with pirates.  After all, how can something vanish without a trace if it left next to no trace to begin with?

Yes, western society has no legends at all of mystical all-encompassing organizations working behind the scenes. The lack of evidence of their existence only means they are that much more powerful.

Fnord.

TheWriter

#52
Quote from: Vekseid on August 28, 2009, 11:22:04 AM
Comparing periods regarding Japanese equipment is a quickly losing battle. At no point in world history has the Japanese archipelago held superior military equipment. They've had to make do with inferior ores, less of them, and greater cultural homogeneity. Japanese armors were always heavier, less maneuverable and less protective, and their weapons follow suit.
Of course.  Japan always has been an island nation, too small to show up on the radars of foreign empires.  Foreign empires who by contrast were always at each others' throats, and facilitated the constant innovation and improvement of warfare technology.  Necessity is the mother of invention, after all.  Having said that, they were still comparing equipment that were split by a millenium-wide time gap.  However backward 6th century Japanese technology was compared to 6th century tech elsewhere, it's still unfair to compare it to something that came around over a thousand years later.

QuoteYes, western society has no legends at all of mystical all-encompassing organizations working behind the scenes. The lack of evidence of their existence only means they are that much more powerful.

Fnord.
Yeah, I see that. :P  But I'm not using it as a measure of power, but as a measure of infamy.  Pirates and ninja take entirely different approaches to doing what they do; one makes damn sure you know who's attacking you, the other prefers their victims to have no idea.  Asking who does it better will only ever result in a battle of opinion.  Comparing ninja to the Illuminati might not fit particularly well, but that only serves to illustrate my point; that it's still more apt than comparing to pirates.  May as well compare red with blue.

Vekseid

The modern concept of the ninja is a 20th century invention. For all the myth that surrounds it, it's very difficult for real organizations to compete with. Pirates, rooted in reality as they are, have all the weaknesses and frailties of mortal humans as a result. As you said yourself, there are no known ninja to have such revealed about them.

Callie Del Noire

#54
Quote from: Vekseid on August 28, 2009, 12:10:09 PM
The modern concept of the ninja is a 20th century invention. For all the myth that surrounds it, it's very difficult for real organizations to compete with. Pirates, rooted in reality as they are, have all the weaknesses and frailties of mortal humans as a result. As you said yourself, there are no known ninja to have such revealed about them.

True and it's been stated that the 'ninja' were also unabashed self promoters. Nothing like a propaganda campaign to keep your enemies off balance.

Of course, Pirates weren't above doing that too. I mean.. Look what Blackbeard did..he set fire to his beard while raiding.. scary guy.

Full Metal

Hehe pirates vs ninjas hmm... well normally I would say ninjas since they are so much cooler, at least in the legends and myths, and most depictions of them.

But I think after recently having a pirate for a president.... Go Mad Capt'n.... who did such a great job, I think I'm going to have to say pirates today.  After all the guy actually went round on a make-shift ship on wheels.  Was fun.

BluDragonX

What hapens if a Ninja


and a Pirate


Have a  love child



You get a unstopible fighting force for on land or sea AKA


JennyXoXo

ninja swords are better, dont u think?

They have the whole samurai background. Whereas pirates are just...pirates.

Captain Maltese


Posting status:  25th December: Up To Date 5 of 9 : last month 2, this month 5, total 38 posts for 2023.

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SleepyWei

Quote from: JennyXoXo on September 08, 2009, 10:45:53 AM
ninja swords are better, dont u think?

They have the whole samurai background. Whereas pirates are just...pirates.

Ninja swords were inferior to the quality of pirates who had much better steel weapons. Furthermore, ninjas did not have a samurai background. Most were either peasants or monks. Pirates were trained navy seamen who were laid off after wars.

MasterMischief

Ninjas do it in their pajamas.