Interest Check-Scion (now closed to new recruitment)

[Empyrean]

Hey all!

I've been getting an itch to play some Scion. Scion, for those who don't know, is a White Wolf game where players take on the roles of the children of the ancient deities from the pantheons of many world cultures. These children are modern-day descendants of the ancient Gods and Goddesses, caught up in a war for the fate of reality against the Titans, distant ancestors of the Gods. More can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_%28role-playing_game%29  and at the White Wolf Scion wiki here: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index.php?title=Scion

I'm not sure if I'd like to play or be a co-ST. I know that my strengths lie more in the fluff than the mechanics. That all said, I was just wondering if anyone shared such an interest and wanted to get a group going.

[Rukio]

Could be all kinds of fun. I think it would work out splendidly with a few dedicated people. I for one would love to play a titan or a god. Makes no difference to me. I just think it could be really cool. So sign me up pronto.

[Kolbrandr]

I'm a big fan of scion, if you can get a group together and someone to run, I'd be interested, though my preferences for play are at the demigod and god level as far as it goes.

[Empyrean]

Rukio: Titans can't be played I'm afraid. :/ However, it is quite possible for a Scion character to ascend to become a God or Goddess in their own right. :)

Kolbrandr: A Demigod or even God-level game sounds pretty interesting to me. I've gotten to Demigod once (in a campaign that started at Hero-level), but never to God. I'd be pretty interested in playing or co-STing a God-level game myself.

[Brandon]

Ive always loved Scion, so count me in as a player. Ive got a ton of different characters of various pantheons that could fill just about any role in the group.

[Rukio]

I noticed. I looked up more about it. I'm thinking a Shinto character would be perfect for me. I love the Japanese stuff.

[HairyHeretic]

My pen and paper game has risen from Hero to Legend 6 demigod. I'd need to sit down with the God book and see how the game style shifts at that point, but I'm comfortable playing at Hero or Demigod. I normally like playing my ass kicking and name taking son of Sun Wukong, but I have a couple of other characters I could level up easily enough, depending on what characters others wanted to play.

[Empyrean]

Legend 6 is as far as the game I was in got to as well. :)

So it sounds like everyone's wanting a Demigod or God-level game. Cool with me. I'd be happy to come up with a plot for us and handle the fluff side of STing if someone is willing to help with the crunch side of things (and if no one else wants to ST). And given the nature of pbp, perhaps it would be best to increase the amount of xp gained on a per session, per number of posts, or per week basis so there would be a greater chance of people getting to expand their character growth. 

Incidentally, I'm also a big fan of the Amatsukami, and if I got to play I might bring back and/or update my old Shinto Scion.

[avorae]

If there is still room i would like to put my hat in for this game as well...

[Empyrean]

Yep. Still room. :) 

I'll get started on a plot for the game and post it up here to get ideas for characters going. :)

[HairyHeretic]

I can help out with the mechanics. We would want to discuss house rules too.

[Empyrean]

I've started talking with Harry about house rules and the like and putting together a plot. Given the preferences of the group I'm thinking we'll either be starting at anywhere from mid-range Demigod (about Legend 6 or 7) to low-range God (Legend 9).

[HairyHeretic]

Maybe legend 8? We're at the upper end of Demigod, and it will allow people to ease into the characters, while we work up to some suitably epic storyline to becoming a God.

In my pen and paper game, our ascension from Hero to Demigod had the band trying to stop Rasputin from enacting the Darkhallow ritual (swiped from the Dresden Files) in Volgograd, which would have drained the life from hundreds of thousands of people in the city and turned him into a God. The magic drew on the countless deaths of the soldiers who had fought there in WW2, so had the ghosts of thousands of Wehrmacht soldiers defending the ritual site (Nazi = good bad guys, therefore ghost Nazis = even better  ;D ), and the PCs leading thousands of ghostly Red Army.

Highlights include the party tank (Scion of Dionysus) finding out that ghost panzers don't weigh anywhere near as much as real ones, and using one as a club, and the Scion of Hermes leaping into the air to engage a flight of ghost Stukas, jumping from bomb to bomb on the way up, and roundhouse kicking the pilot right out of the first one.

It ended with the band battling Rasputin atop the 80 meter tall statue at the site, and the Scion of Hermes jumping up with Rasputin in a clinch, and impaling him on the statues sword. Cue the ritual coming apart, lightning falling all around and the Highlander 'there can be only one' moment *grins*

The only problem is now I'll have to come up with something even better for when we're ready to move up to God ;)

[Empyrean]

Legend 8 sounds good to me and I'll plot accordingly. :)

Could everyone please submit outlines of their characters? It would help with determining what type of game you guys want to play (i.e. combat, mystery, adventure, all of the above, etc.).

[HairyHeretic]

My preference would be my resident ass kicker, and son of the Great Sage, Equal of Heaven; Sun Wukong. Luke Xiang is angling as a sort of noble warrior God, the epitome of the wu xia hero. Heavy on the epic physicals, a smattering of other stuff, and a pick'n'mix from the purviews.

[avorae]

BIOGRAPHICAL DATA
Real name: Watanabe Yuriko
Player: Avorae
Nature: Not sure at the moment
Calling: Hacker
Pantheon: Amatsukami
God: Amaterasu
Title: None

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION
Height: 5'1"
Weight: 90 pounds
Eyes: Blue
Hair: black with red highlights
Skin tone: Japanese
Build: Petite
Date of birth: 9-12
Age: 21
Other distinguishing features: Has a tattoo of a black cat with blood red eyes on her right ankle.

Character description
Yuriko is a rather short female, standing only 5'1", with a petite build.  Her skin is a healthy Asian tone, her beautiful face topped by a nimbus of shoulder-length black hair with red highlights and set with a pair of rich blue eyes.

Her clothing style can best be described as that of an updated ‘50’s bad boy with hip hugging low-rider jeans which allow the band of her black thong to peek through and a simple white midriff Hello Kitty tee graces her chest. Of course you can not forget the piece de resistance the monogrammed black leather jacket. This in her case is a Picture of Hello Kitty riding a Harley Fat boy.

[Empyrean]

Hairy: Sounds good. :)

Avorae: Yuriko seems cool, especially considering what I have in mind for a plot. Without spoiling anything, I can say that having a daughter of Amaterasu around will provide some interesting opportunities. :)

[avorae]

Yuriko it is then...  ;D

[Rukio]

BIOGRAPHICAL DATA
Real name: Alerik O'Donahue
Player: Rukio
Nature: Not sure at the moment
Calling: Fighter
Pantheon: Tuatha Dé Danann
God: Lugh
Title: The Bear

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION
Height: 6'2
Weight: 194 lbs
Eyes: Green
Hair: red
Skin tone: Pale/Irish
Build: Thick and muscular. Like a tank
Date of birth: 06/18
Age: 26
Other distinguishing features: Tattoo of a bear paw on his back

Character description
Alerik is a very large man. He is often called The Bear due to his size and demeanor. He had vibrant red hair which he keeps very short as well as bright green eyes. His skin is kinda pale, but that's only because, being very Irish, he burns easily and doesn't like being out in the sun. Alerik also has several bear-like qualities, including very thick, claw-like finger nails, fangs, and a lot of hair all over his body.

It's very unusual for Alerik to be found wearing a shirt. He feels that it restricts his movement, but it's mostly because he thinks they're uncomfortable. He typically wears cargo pants of verying dark colors and materials and big, black combat boots. He does, however, cary a spear around all the time. It's not anything special, but he weilds it as a tribute to Lugh.

[Brandon]

Theres only one character that I really want to play right now so, feel free to look over Johan. I made him awhile back but have never really had much of a chance to play him. The sheet below is his hero form, once we figure out xp and house rules Ill apply them and the demigod template

Name: Johan Hartmond
Age: 24
Height: 6’
Weight: 165
Scion of Hades

Description: Johan stands a full six feet tall with an average build for a man of his size. He keeps his blonde hair short and trimmed and his deep blue eyes shine with intelligence and cunning. Normally he wears simple clothes that allow for freedom of movement and the ability to blend in but he’s almost always seen with a gym bag at his side or on his back. Inside he keeps a deep blue business suit, an FN P90, and a few clips of ammunition. Whenever he is in his business suits or wearing a jacket it’s almost a guarantee that you can find a holster with his Glock and several clips of ammunition under it

Personality: Johan is unlike almost any of Hades children. He is bright, manipulative, and generally a fun and caring guy to be around. He is uncomfortable around his mother Lisa as he feels she is only there to take advantage of him and his father but deep down he does want to love and care for her. However, he deeply loves and enjoys the company of his father, Hades, a god who he respects and looks up to.

Johan puts everything he has into finding the Titanspawn and ways to deal with them. One day he knows he will have to ascend into the Underworld to assist his father in imprisoning them once again and he wants to be ready when that day eventually comes.

Background: Johan’s story begins in the warm summer months when Persephone left the side of Hades as she does every six months. In a fit of depression as his queen left Hades entered the world of mortals once again, intent on taking a short few weeks of vacation from his eternal job as lord of the dead. On the beaches of Florida he met a young woman (Lisa) in a local bar and the two hit it off changing the mood of the god of gloom and doom. The few short passionate weeks of his vacation turned to a month and then two before it was almost time for his queen to return but by this time Lisa was pregnant. Being a responsible god Hades made a pact with Lisa to support her and the child and in the summer months would be a presence in the child’s life.

So as autumn and winter came Hades returned to the underworld and basked in the happiness and warmth of his true love Persephone and in the summer months he would return to the world of mortals to be a father to the boy Lisa named Johan and to support the woman and his son. As the years past Hades developed a company called Hadey’s manufacturing, dedicated to weapons design and manufacturing but when Johan grew into a young man with his fathers sense of business and responsible personality Hades turned over the company to him, content with continuing to visit Johan in those months that Persephone was away.

Through Johan’s ability the company took off rather well in his high school years and after his graduation Johan entered college, leaving the company to Hades hands once again as he majored in business. Years passed as everything was going well and then suddenly the Titan’s returned and almost immediately their children took notice of Johan. The attack was quick and precise when the Titanspawn attacked his main office of Hadey’s manufacturing. Using some of the more powerful firearms that his company had ever made Johan managed to fend off most of the attackers and when the smoke cleared his father showed up, convincing the local police and military that it was all an act of terrorism. Johan soon found out otherwise.

Hades was quick to take his boy away from the office and showed him a path into Hades itself. Deep in the palace of the underworld Hades explained to his son the real reason for the attack as well as his new role in the world and then gave him his birthrights. Johan has eagerly accepted his role and intends to turn all of the world against the Titan’s as well as drag all of them back into the depths of the underworld

Character sheet

Name: Johan Hartmond
God: Hades
Nature: Architect
Calling: International businessman

Abilities

Strength 2     Charisma 3           Perception 2
Dexterity 3    Manipulation 5       Intelligence 5
Stamina 2      Appearance 3         Wits 2

Epic Charisma 1
Epic Intelligence 2
Epic Manipulation 2

Skills

Academics* 4
Animal Ken
Art
Athletics 1
Awareness 2
Brawl 1
Command* 3
Control (Cars) 1

Craft (Firearms) 3
Empathy
Fortitude 2
Integrity 2
Investigation 2
Larceny
Marksmanship 2
Medicine

Melee
occult* 1
Politics 2
Presence* 4
Science (Computer) 1
Stealth* 1
Survival
thrown*

*notes a favored ability

Languages
English (native)              Swahili
German                         Japanese
Spanish                         Greek
French                           Arabic
Dutch

Birthrights
Followers 5 (20 zombies)
Relic 2 (Gloves of Death)
Relic 2 (Bloodstone ring)

Knacks
Takes one to know one (Manipulation)
Overt order (Manipulation)
Inspirational figure (Charisma)
Fast learner (Intelligence)
Math genius (Intelligence)

Boons
Arête: Craft 2
Night Eyes (1 dot darkness purview)
Death senses (1 dot death purview)
Safely interred (1 dot earth purview)

Virtues
Expression 2
Intellect 4
Valor 2
Vengeance 1

Willpower 6/6
Legend 3
Legend points 9/9
Soak 2B 1L A
Dodge DV: 3
Health levels

0  []
-1 [][]
-2 [][]
-4 []
I  []

Experience
Experience spent

Equipment

FN P90 (4 magazines of ammo)
Glock 20 (4 magazines of ammo)
Knife
Cell phone

Bonus points (22 total)
Legend 3 = 7 points
Followers 5 = 4
Relic 2 = 2
Academics 4 = 1
Presence 4 = 1

Bloodstone ring (2 dot relic)

-Access to earth and Darkness purviews

Gloves of death (2 dot Relic)
These thick black leather gloves are finely made and have an embroidered pair of crossed scythe’s sewn into the palms. Johan usually uses them to channel his death boons but on occasion he can also place a hand on the ground to make his zombie followers rise from the earth.

-summons zombies
-access to the death purview

[Scya]

I want to throw my hat into the ring but I will be away for  over a  week so I will stand back if it is already full when I return.
My character concept is either a scion of the Morrigan or a former psychologist a scion of Tlazoltéotl.

[Empyrean]

Scya: Sounds good to me.

Everyone, I have an early appointment tomorrow but I'll try to post up House Rules and all either in the morning or later tomorrow. But yes, we are going to be starting at Legend 8 so please plan accordingly. :) 

[Jefepato]

How many players are you looking for?

I might potentially be interested if you still have room, but the Scion mechanics can get awfully messy (and niche protection is really, really difficult).  Still, there's been a lot of material released since I last played that I'd like to give a try...

[Empyrean]

I don't want to go too big, so, including you, I'm thinking one or two more open slots.

[Jefepato]

Hmm...I'm sort of thinking about playing a Scion of Paul Bunyan, but I keep coming up with new ideas (and I'm curious what house rules you're going to use).

[HairyHeretic]

We hadn't discussed using the WW2 pantheons and stuff. Personally I think that was one section of the Companion we could have done without, that and the Order of Divine Glory.

House rules are still under discussion at present, though I think we agree on most of them.

[Jefepato]

I don't see what the problem is with the WW2 pantheons (well, other than the fact that including Betsy Ross made no sense and both pantheon-specific Purviews are completely terrible), but I'd be happy to go with something else if you'd rather not include them.

Do I dare to hope that Untouchable Opponent is getting kneecapped?

[HairyHeretic]

UO reduction is one of the house rules I think worth including. Drop the bonus to additional dots, rather than doubling the dodge. The usual one mentioned on the forums.

I just think the whole WW2 storyline was poorly worked out, and from my perspective the pantheons really don't make much sense. If they wanted to do an american pantheon, do a native american one. Those gods have at least been around more than a couple of centuries. An Allied pantheon makes even less sense, as you're including deities from 3 separate pantheons.

It's not entirely my call to make on whether or not they'll be in, but personally I feel they're a weak addition to the setting.

[Jefepato]

If you say so.  (The part about the WW2 cycle that really bothered me was the entire Aesir pantheon somehow failing to notice that the Nazis were evil...)

Is material from the Ragnarok book acceptable?  I'm sort of thinking about playing a female Scion of Uller.

[HairyHeretic]

If you say so.  (The part about the WW2 cycle that really bothered me was the entire Aesir pantheon somehow failing to notice that the Nazis were evil...)

That too.

Bear in mind, I'm just giving my opinion on the material. While I'll be helping out with the rules, I won't be GM (or at least not primary GM, if that makes sense), so if you really want to go with that idea, then say so.

Is material from the Ragnarok book acceptable?  I'm sort of thinking about playing a female Scion of Uller.

I don't think there'd be any problem with that.

[Empyrean]

Ragnarok material is fine. ^_^

While I personally have little gripe against the WW2 pantheons, I don't think they'll be included here. If they had been completely written up (i.e. with Over and Underworlds, and Titans), and the PSPs were handled better, I'd incorporate them. As it is, I'm thinking that there's enough material in the core three books, Companion, Ragnarok, and Yazatas to work with. 

[Jefepato]

Cool.  I should have a proper concept ready sometime tomorrow (probably late though).

[Empyrean]

Here are the House Rules we'll be using for this campaign. :)

Permanent Legend is awarded for deeds, not by XP

All Purpose Purviews are Current Rating not New Rating if bought in order.

All All-Purpose Purviews from all books are fine.

The following pantheons are banned from play: Yankees, Allied, Russian, and Atlantean. Those interested in Epic Int/crafter or scientist type characters can contact me and we can see about modifying Scire for your use. 

Purview dots are one for one when creating or upgrading a character, epic attribute or not.

Untouchable Opponent adds +Epic Dexterity dots, not +Epic Dexterity successes.

Disfiguring Attack gets Epic Strength Bonuses

Perception adds to firearms damage in the same way strength does to physical damage

Direct Social Attacks are resisted via Wits+ Integrity (Overt Order, Charmer).  Indirect are resisted via Willpower + Integrity + Legend (Serpent’s Gaze, Lunacy). Only non-power social attacks can be resisted via spending willpower, assuming the defender fails the resistance roll.

At Hero, Virtue channels work as written. At Demigod, they add successes or dice equal to Virtue, player choice. At God, they add dice, success or progressive successes (1/2/4/7/11) as per Epics and Arête, player choice. Players decide each roll.

We'll be using some Alternate write-ups for Jotunblut, Arete, Mystery, and Prophecy. Alternate Arete is found here: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index.php?title=Arete_Purview_%28Revised%29

Alternate Jotunblut here: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index.php?title=Alternate_Jutonblut_Purview

Alternate Mystery here: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index.php?title=Alternate_Mystery_Purview

Alternate Prophecy here: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index.php?title=Alternate_Prophecy_Purview

Note that Prophecy 5's power is amended slightly. All the successes you achieve on that one roll will, at some point determined by me, be lost on something else as part of Fate's balance. Also, please consult with me if you are going to take Mystery 7.

PCs start at Legend 3, and build the character as normal.
Legend is then raised to 4
Spend 300 xp
Then Legend raises to 5, and the demigod power up template is assigned.
Then raise Legend to 8, and the remaining 300xp can be spent as you please.

10 extra free points can be spent on Guides, Relics, Creatures, and Followers at Hero level. Another 10 freebie points can be spent at the Demigod level. No one is allowed to start with aggravated damage weapons. Relics bought or gained at Hero may be upgraded at Demigod, as long as the PC can give a decent justification for it.

[HairyHeretic]

You might want to give a fixed amount for the xp during Hero.

[avorae]

You might want to give a fixed amount for the xp during Hero.

I agree with Hairy..

[HairyHeretic]

I'll get my character sorted tomorrow, as its late here now.

[Empyrean]

Done! :) You get 300 xp to spend in the Hero phase and 300 to spend in the Demigod phase.

[Jefepato]

Here's the concept in brief.  She's likely to turn into a bit of a generalist with a physical focus, but proper stats will most likely have to wait until tomorrow at the earliest.

BIOGRAPHICAL DATA
Real name: Amy Kalder
Player: Jefepato
Nature: Competitor
Calling: Extreme Sports Fanatic
Pantheon: Aesir
God: Uller

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 165 lbs
Eyes: Pale blue
Hair: Platinum blonde
Skin tone: Pale
Build: Athletic
Age: 22

Description:
Amy is quite tall, with an athletic yet curvy build.  She takes after her grandmother with her strong, classically beautiful features, although her hair is practically snow-white, worn long but often tied back haphazardly.  Her taste in clothing is eclectic, especially since cold weather hardly bothers her anymore, but she nearly always favors something she can move freely in.  She always moves with an easy confidence, when she isn't launching gleefully into some stunt or another.

Amy is a vivacious young woman with a love of life.  As far as she's concerned, pretty much everything about being a Scion is great.  Occasionally people mistake her relentless good cheer for a lack of sense, which is a terrible mistake -- just because she enjoys fighting evil doesn't mean she fails to grasp how serious it is (although she is rather optimistic for an Aesir and doesn't let the Gods' grumblings about Ragnarok get her down).

[Jefepato]

Jotunblut 1 seems a bit weak, but this is still much better than canon Jotunblut so I oughtn't complain!

All Purpose Purviews are Current Rating not New Rating if bought in order.

So, the usual cost applies if they aren't bought in order?

(Also, are the costs for buying them using the starting 10 dots or with bonus points affected?)

Purview dots are one for one when creating or upgrading a character, epic attribute or not.

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what this means.  Can you elaborate?

EDIT: One last stupid question (because I'm having trouble finding an official answer): the BP cost for a "Boon" is simply listed as 5 (4 if associated with divine parent).  Is that supposed to be 5/4 per level of the Boon, or just 5/4 for a Boon, period?  (The latter seems kind of crazy, but costs are kind of bizarre and lopsided in Scion anyway.)

[HairyHeretic]

Page 138 of the Hero book says

Boons from all-purpose Purviews associated with the character’s divine parent cost four bonus points per dot at character creation. Those associated with different Gods cost the character five bonus points per dot. Once play has begun, Boons associated with the character’s divine parent cost four experience points per dot, while those associated with other Gods cost five points per dot.

At that cost, buy your boons with XP and spend your dots on something more useful :)

[Empyrean]

Purview dots are one for one when creating or upgrading a character, epic attribute or not.

You need only spend one point to buy the next Boon in a Purview, instead of spending multiple points. So if you wanted to purchase say Fire 1 at character creation, that would cost one of your starting dots. Fire 2 would only cost you one dot as well, instead of 2 dots. The same with Epic Attributes. One dot gets you one dot of Epic Wits. You'd pay another dot for a second dot of E Wits instead of paying 2 dots for it.

[HairyHeretic]

Are you capping relics at 5 dots, or can they go higher with the demigod upgrade?

[Empyrean]

I think I'd like to keep relics capped at 5 dots for the Hero and Demigod levels. I'd like to reserve relics with a higher level of dots to represent truly mythic things (i.e. Thor's hammer Mjolnir).

[HairyHeretic]

No worries. Just wanted to check before I started.

[fallensaviour]

is there still room for this?

and i thought it was for boons the dot cost of the boon during creation with the boon/epic atribute pool ie a 2 dot boon was 2 dots not just 1

i have a scion of guan yu i might want to make...

[Empyrean]

Yes there is still room.

We're changing the boon/epic att. rule so a 2 dot boon is 1 dot. So Fire 1 is one dot. Fire 2 is one dot, and so on.

And Guan Yu? Sweet! I look forward to seeing it. :)

[fallensaviour]

yes...his visitation totally came while he was playing dynasty warriors ;) which would explain the relic ps2 controler ;)

[Jefepato]

My sheet's mostly done.  (And damn does the XP go fast at the Demigod level.)  I should have it finalized sometime tomorrow.

[HairyHeretic]

That it does. At Hero most Scions can have a variety of abilities. At Demigod, you really need to start specialising.

[avorae]

That it does. At Hero most Scions can have a variety of abilities. At Demigod, you really need to start specialising.

I started specializing from the get go. That wayI had a blueprint of what Iwanted to do and where I wanted to go with the character.

[HairyHeretic]

I tend to do the same, but at hero you can branch out a bit. By the time you're getting up into demigod level powers, the xp costs means you have to narrow your focus.

[fallensaviour]

so silly question, what would be the relic cost for a relic that summons other relics/birthrights? ie a ps2 controler i type codes into that causes the other items to appear?

[HairyHeretic]

1 dot power. I've only seen it as one item tied to one other though.

[fallensaviour]

right...but one dot per item summoned or one dot total

[HairyHeretic]

Therein lies the question. The Companion says this "Link a single Birthright to the Relic’s use; must expend 1 Legend"

Theoretically you could take it multiple times, and the GM might want to give you a points break on it. That'd be his call though.

[fallensaviour]

hairy, regardless of anything else, its always fun to discuss mechanics with you :D

[HairyHeretic]

I'm happy to go through mechanics, but every GM has their own way of doing things. Since I'm not the one running this, I wouldn't be able to give you a definite yay or nay on it :)

[Jefepato]

On the amount of XP we've got to play with, I'm not sure I could have specialized at the Hero level if I tried.  Having to actually buy normal Attributes past 5 to support the Epics is the real killer. >_>

(I guess I could have gotten more Boons instead, but it seems like even the useful Purviews tend to fall flat around the 4-5 level.)

[HairyHeretic]

In my preliminary planning, there are 14 hero level boons I would ideally want to take, and 10 demigod level. Odds are I'll need to prune a few of those out, even with 300 XP at each level. :)

[Jefepato]

Depends what else you're buying (and whether any of those Boons are sequential), really.  Although I'm guessing some of the demigod Boons are going to have to go unless you really don't like Epic Attributes.  ;)

[HairyHeretic]

Yeah, I know. And I forgot my PSP there too, so that's another 7 boons to add to the total :)

[Empyrean]

Therein lies the question. The Companion says this "Link a single Birthright to the Relic’s use; must expend 1 Legend"

Theoretically you could take it multiple times, and the GM might want to give you a points break on it. That'd be his call though.

I'm going to say that it would be one birthright per dot. So if you have say, a relic sword linked to the controller, then that's 1 dot to link the two and 1 legend to summon the sword. A relic ring would be another dot and also cost only 1 Legend to summon when you put the code in.

Incidentally, that controller and you got it sounds really cool! :)

[Jefepato]

Here's a preliminary character sheet.  (Some degree of backstory and explanations for the variety of Relics (and why in hell an Aesir Scion would pal around with a wolf) will be forthcoming.)  In retrospect, I probably should have tracked BP/XP expenditures more closely -- I can pretty easily redo it if you'd like to see the numbers accounted for, Empyrean.

(I wasn't sure if Beowulf was a sufficiently "minor" God to be a Guide, since he does have Legend 12, but his description in the Ragnarok book made him sound like a good candidate.)

Name: Amy Kalder
Calling: Extreme Sports Fanatic
Pantheon: Aesir
Player: Jefepato
Nature: Competitor
God: Uller

Attributes:
Strength 5
Dexterity 7
Stamina 5
Charisma 5
Manipulation 3
Appearance 5
Perception 5
Intelligence 5
Wits 5

Abilities:
Academics 3
*Animal Ken 5
Art (Dance) 1
Art (Music) 1
*Athletics 5
Awareness 3
Brawl 3
Command 1
Control (Skis) 1
Control (Snowboard) 1
Empathy 2
Fortitude 3
Integrity 3
Investigation 1
Larceny 1
*Marksmanship 5
Medicine 1
*Melee 5
Occult 2
Politics 1
Presence 2
Science (Physics) 1
*Stealth 5
*Survival 5
Thrown 3

Birthrights:
Creature 2 (wolf)
Relic 3 (charm bracelet with snjar, valdyr, and stjarna runes, grants access to Animal (Arctic Wolf), Frost and Stars Purviews)
Relic 2 (anklets, grant access to Illusion and Sky Purviews)
Relic 5 (Fenris Arms revolver; as Peacemaker with +2 Accuracy, +2 damage, and grants access to War Purview)
Relic 2 (silver drinking bowl; summons/dismisses wolf ally and can revive him)
Relic 5 (as bulletproof vest with Armor of Achilles effect, -1 fatigue, +1 soak, and ability to change form to blend in with any clothing)
Guide 5 (Beowulf)
Relic 3 (iGjallar (grants Psychopomp Purview, gets reception anywhere) with Beowulf on speed-dial)

Epic Attributes:
Epic Strength 5 (Crushing Grip, Holy Bound, Holy Rampage, Hurl to the Horizon, Uplifting Might)
Epic Dexterity 7 (And the Crowd Goes Wild, Cat's Grace, Divine Balance, Escape Artist, Lightning Sprinter, Fast as Thought, Perfect Partner, Roll With It, Untouchable Opponent)
Epic Stamina 5 (Damage Conversion, Holy Fortitude, Self-Healing, Regeneration, Raise Your Glass)
Epic Charisma 5 (Benefit of the Doubt, Blessing of Importance, BFF, Charmer, Girls Just Wanna Have Fun)
Epic Manipulation 2 (Gods' Honest, Takes One to Know One)
Epic Appearance 4 (Center of Attention, Game Face, Serpent's Gaze, Compelling Presence)
Epic Perception 5 (Fool Me Once..., Predatory Focus, Supernal Hunter, Telescopic Senses, Spatial Attunement)
Epic Intelligence 5 (Blockade of Reason, Fight With Your Head, Language Mastery, Instant Translation, Perfect Memory)
Epic Wits 4 (Jack of All Trades, Meditative Focus, Rabbit Reflexes, Monkey in the Middle)

Boons:
Animal (Arctic Wolf) 3 - Animal Communication, Animal Command, Animal Aspect
Frost 4 - Frost Immunity, Uller's Stride, Hrimthurssar's Touch, Frozen Panoply
Illusion 1 - The Subtle Knife
Sky 4 - Sky's Grace, Wind's Freedom, Storm Augmentation, Divine Threnody
War 5 - Blessing of Bravery, Battle Cry, Warrior Ideal (Action Heroine), Battle Map, Mortal Stroke
Jotunblut 7 - Heroic Stature, Giant Among Men, Form of the Giant, Gift of Blood, Giant Among Demigods, Hounds of War, Form of the Jotun

Virtues:
Courage 3
Endurance 2
Expression 2
Loyalty 5

Willpower: 10/10
Legend: 8
Legend Points: 64/64

[avorae]

Hey I was wondering if the Tennyo was ok to take as a Guide.

Here is the site that t is listed at....
http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index.php?title=Tennyo

[Empyrean]

Avorae: Looks good to me and it would make sense for the daughter of Amaterasu to have one as a guide/assistant. :)

[Jefepato]

Any problems with my sheet so far, Empyrean?

[Empyrean]

Most of it looks good. I do wonder why her Control (Skis and Snowboards) is so low for an extreme sports fanatic. Do I understand the concept correctly when I ask if Amy was some sort of sports star or professional athlete prior to her Visitation?

What is the Armor of Achilles effect?

Can you explain more about her wolf? It seems to be an important part of her character. Also, are you planning to upgrade the wolf at some point? I'm a bit concerned that her wolf might not be able to survive at this level of play without some sort of enhancement.

Beowulf seems like a cool Guide. :)

[Jefepato]

Most of it looks good. I do wonder why her Control (Skis and Snowboards) is so low for an extreme sports fanatic.

Mostly because it didn't occur to me that I needed Control skills for those until I was almost out of XP and happened to notice that Uller is statted with Control (Skis) 5.  I was thinking mainly in terms of Athletics for sports.  (Realistically, she should probably have at least minimal points in Control (Automobile) too.)

(I really don't understand the logic in how they decided which Abilities require specialties and which don't.)

Do I understand the concept correctly when I ask if Amy was some sort of sports star or professional athlete prior to her Visitation?

More of an enthusiastic amateur, really, although she might have developed some amount of notoriety if that suits the story (especially once her Epic Dexterity/Charisma kicked in).

What is the Armor of Achilles effect?

The Armor of Achilles is a relic used by Victor Fingers (page 308 in the Hero book).  It greatly augments the Damage Conversion knack.  (It does seem a bit powerful, so if you'd rather disallow it I'd understand.)

Can you explain more about her wolf? It seems to be an important part of her character. Also, are you planning to upgrade the wolf at some point? I'm a bit concerned that her wolf might not be able to survive at this level of play without some sort of enhancement.

I'm working on the details, but the gist is that she has a bond with wolves due to being a Scion of the god of winter and hunting.  The plan was to use Jotunblut 6 (Hounds of War) to turn it nemean if it was meant to accomplish anything.

Even a nemean wolf is pretty much a joke in high-end demigod combat, but unless I'm missing something, that's true of absolutely anything you can buy with the Creature Birthright (same goes for Followers).  There's a reason she's got a Relic to bring it back to life.  :P

All that said, I might redo the sheet to get her Ability scores into a more sensible spread.  ...Especially since I only just noticed that Beowulf has Teaching Prodigy, which might change things just a bit.  :D

[Empyrean]

More of an enthusiastic amateur, really, although she might have developed some amount of notoriety if that suits the story (especially once her Epic Dexterity/Charisma kicked in).

*nod* It makes sense that as her Epic Dex and Charisma kicked in she would develop some sort of fame if she pursued her hobbies on any sort of professional level. It would certainly help build her Legend in the mortal world. ^_^

The Armor of Achilles is a relic used by Victor Fingers (page 308 in the Hero book).  It greatly augments the Damage Conversion knack.  (It does seem a bit powerful, so if you'd rather disallow it I'd understand.)

It is pretty powerful and I'm a bit concerned about it's last effect (downgrading agg damage to lethal). That said, I'm willing to allow it and see how it works out in play.

As for the wolves, sounds good to me. :) If I may make a suggestion? It appears that she has Illusion but so far I can't tell why with the concept you've presented. If she's to be a Goddess of wolves (or something connected to them) maybe ditching Illusion for another dot in Animal (wolves) might be helpful. I won't stop you from taking Illusion if you really want it. I was just observing there. :)

[Wheresmycow]

Is there room in this game?  I'd like to play a trickster/swashbuckler kind of character, maybe from the Greek pantheon.  I've got the books, so I'm good with the rules and such.

[Jefepato]

It is pretty powerful and I'm a bit concerned about it's last effect (downgrading agg damage to lethal). That said, I'm willing to allow it and see how it works out in play.

Actually, the part where bashing damage downgrades to nothing for free seemed pretty powerful as well.  If it causes problems in play, I'll just trade in those dots for more soak instead.

As for the wolves, sounds good to me. :) If I may make a suggestion? It appears that she has Illusion but so far I can't tell why with the concept you've presented. If she's to be a Goddess of wolves (or something connected to them) maybe ditching Illusion for another dot in Animal (wolves) might be helpful. I won't stop you from taking Illusion if you really want it. I was just observing there. :)

Actually, I couldn't do that, since I bought those Purviews with XP.  Illusion 1 cost a lot less than Animal 4 would.  And although I do intend to eventually pick up more Animal Boons, I'm not really in a big hurry, since Ride Animal is pretty lame (if I wanted to do that I'd be playing a Loa Scion  :P).  The Subtle Knife is the sort of thing that's good to have when you're carting weapons around.

Anyway, I'll go into slightly more detail when I get a proper backstory written up, but Amy's rather eclectic set of Relics is meant to give her unfortunate entanglements.  The wolf thing fits her for good reasons, but the Aesir aren't exactly keen on wolves (*coughFenriscough*), and it's hard to guess where Uller went to get that relic made since no Aesir is associated with the Animal Purview.  Similarly, one might wonder exactly why Loki would agree to help out with an Illusion relic.  It lends some potential drama to a character who would otherwise fit in rather well with the Aesir.

I'll see what I can do with the sheet and come up with some sort of update hopefully tomorrow.

[HairyHeretic]

If you break the armour of achillles down, its a bit broken at relic 2. It's giving him

2B/4L soak - A 1L/1B soak is a 1 dot power
Bashing to Nothing - Sort of like the Damage Conversion knack
Lethal to Bashing - Damage Conversion knack (for free instead of 1 Legend)
Aggravated to Lethal - Divine Damage conversion (for 2 legend instead of 5)

So, soak alone is worth 3-4 dots.
Increase efficiency of a knack is a 1 dot power (the bashing to lethal, or the points break in legend maybe)
And say 1 dot for each knack.

You're talking about 8-9 dots worth of power there, by my count.

[fallensaviour]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hare

so what kinds of awesome could a 5 dot magical horse get...

[HairyHeretic]

Hero P328 has the Valkyrie Horse (Creature 4, Relic 1)
Companion P99 has the Zouwu (Creature 3, Relic 1)

Either of those ought to provide some guidelines.

[Jefepato]

Well, the cost of the soak depends on what the base armor type is supposed to be (I can't really tell, it doesn't seem to correspond to anything on the list).  But if you object I can just change it to something else.

[HairyHeretic]

Yeah, some of the early Scion stuff seemed rather arbitrarily costed, making it hard to work out what a fair cost was for a relic. At least the section in the companion provides some guidelines.

In my opinion, it could be a workable relic, but not for 2 dots.

The armour itself looks like a breast (and back?) -plate, maybe arm and leg greaves. I'd guess about a +2L/+2B to +3L/+3B, give or take. The bulletproof vest (modern style) is a +2B/+2L.

[fallensaviour]

hmm... could a perma beard work as a relic simmilar to how oden lost his eye as a relic?...like a it always grows back beard...since i am making the son of the lord of the magnificent beard

[HairyHeretic]

I think a permanent beard is more an inconvenience than a loss :)

Unless you're playing a female character ;)

[fallensaviour]

well...it would make disguise difficult

[Empyrean]

Sorry for any slowness today. It's been a rough day. I'll be going over and responding to PMs and posts here tonight and tomorrow.

Could you all do me a favor and give me a headcount of who all is interested in playing? I know Scya wants to play when he or she returns from their vacation in the coming week but I'd like an idea of how big the group is going to be. Thanks! :)

[Wheresmycow]

I'm interested in joining, but a whole bunch of people called dibs before me.

[avorae]

I am in just doing some rework on my character as i lost my cheat sheet for what i spent and on what.

[Jefepato]

Still interested.  Almost done reworking my character, but I'll probably finish up some proper backstory before I post it again.

[fallensaviour]

starting to build should be done soon...just had to throw some ideas around with the whole....what relics do what stuff...also hypothetical question do we have to spend all the 300 xp during hero creation or if we get some wierd number like a 1 or 2 xp remaining can it carry over to demigod?

[HairyHeretic]

Character done and PMed through. I think I had a point or two of xp left over in each place as well.

Relics can do pretty much anything. If anyone wants help in designing a relic, let me know. Tell me what sort of stuff you'd like it to do, and I can figure it out (or close to it) with the rules.

[Empyrean]

Jefepato: I will agree that the Armor of Achilles effect is a bit more than Relic 2. Given the sheer effect in terms of dots, I'm thinking that it would be a bit beyond what a Demigoddess would have. On the other hand, that's a bunch of dots you get back to spend in new ways. :)

Fallensavior: I don't quite think the perma-beard works as a sacrifice. I like the idea, don't get me wrong, but Odin and Tyr has to really lose something in exchange for what they got. Something that can be tamed temporarily by a pair of clippers just doesn't strike me as in the same category.

I'd prefer if you'd spend all your Hero xp at Hero level and your Demigod xp at Demigod level, but I've been a player and I understand that sometimes a little xp carries over. Any number under 10 xp that carries over is fine.

Incidentally gang, if possible, please link your relics and creatures to your character's pantheon and culture. If you've got an iGjallar and you're not Aesir, I won't ding you if you switch it to something like an iKami or iCelt or something. I'd love to see things connected to a character's parent, pantheon, and culture (native or the culture of the land where one's parent was a god/goddess).

   

[fallensaviour]

so...how to make a relic beard...*ponders*

[HairyHeretic]

Given a Hero level character (Legend 2) could have a 5 dot relic, I don't think it is impossible for a Demigod, bordering on Godhood, to have something worth 8 or 9 dots.

Even at that, you could break relic down into 2, or even 3, separate relics to get the effects. The knacks could be rolled into one, the armour bonuses into another. I would also suggest that the multiple abilities of the relic do not stack ... you can only benefit from one of them at a time, otherwise you could downgrade lethal to bashing and then the bashing is automatically ignored. That would be a bit too much.

Thinking about it, the ignore bashing for free might be dodgy anyway, given you could take a stamina knack to downgrade the lethal to bashing, pop that, and have the armour soak the bashing entirely.

[Jefepato]

I'll just boost the soak on that armor for now.  I tend to concur that ignoring bashing for free is a bit questionable, anyway, but if/when we hit God level we can revisit the issue of what's reasonable.

Not that I won't be looking to avoid aggravated damage as much as possible, though.  They really made it brutal in this game.  :o

[Wheresmycow]

So, it looks like I'll be able to get in on this game.  Did my character up and have got most of the points nailed down.  The only thing left is Birthrights and I'm not sure what to do.  Concept-wise, he went from Stage Magician to this complete and utter rascal.  But likable.  He's the kind of person who'd steal a priceless treasure from a museum, only to give it back the next day because his real target was to steal the museum's front door ("It's a conversation piece").  He'd flirt with a mob-boss's daughter, in front of the mob-boss and goons, because she was cute and he felt like it.  Here's the run-down on character stats:

Name: Alexander Bartholomew Cabbot
Scion of: Hermes
Calling: Charming, Audacious Rascal
Nature: Gambler

Strength:	2		Charisma:	6		Perception:	5
Epic:	1		Epic:	5		Epic:	4
Dexterity:	6		Manipulation:	6		Intelligence:	6
Epic:	6		Epic:	6		Epic:	6
Stamina:	4		Appearance:	4		Wits:	6
Epic:	4		Epic:	2		Epic:	6

Academics:	2
Art (Singing):	5
Art (Stage Magician):	5
Athletics:	5
Awareness:	5
Brawl:	3
Control (Motorcycle):	4
Empathy:	5
Fortitude:	3
Integrity:	5
Larceny:	5
Occult:	5
Presence:	5
Stealth:	5
Survival:	1
Thrown:	5

Arete 4 (Athletics, Awareness, Larceny, Presence, Stealth, Thrown): Mystic Endowment, Par Excellence, Show Off, Beyond Mortal Ken
Moon 1- 4: Smoking Mirror, Tidal Interference, Phase Cloak, Lunacy
Psychopomp 1- 4, 7: Unerring Orientation, Where Are You?, Unbarred Entry, Come Along, Rainbow Bridge

Strength Knacks: Hurl to the Horizon
Dexterity Knacks: Cat's Grace, Divine Balance, Escape Artist, Perfect Partner, Ricochet Symphony, Roll With It
Stamina Knacks: Body Armor, Inner Furnace, Regeneration, Self-Healing
Charisma Knacks: Benefit of the Doubt, Boys Will Be Boys, Charmer, Hapless Cool, Never Say Die
Manipulation Knacks: Advantageous Circumstances, Blurt It Out, God's Honest, Overt Order, Stench of Guilt, Takes One to Know One
Appearance Knacks: Doin' Fine, My Eyes Are Up Here
Perception Knacks: Environmental Awareness, Parallel Attention, Subliminal Warning, Telescopic Senses
Intelligence Knacks: Blockade of Reason, Language Mastery, Multitasking, Perfect Memory, Speed Reader, Telepathy
Wits Knacks: Eternal Vigilance, Jack of All Trades, Monkey in the Middle, Perfect Imposter, Psychic Profiler, Social Chameleon

Expression:	2
Intellect:	4
Valor:	2
Vengeance:	1

Now, for Birthrights, I know I need something for the Moon and Psychopomp purview.  For the Psychopomp, I was thinking of a pair of sneakers with a feather from Hermes's sandals in them.  For the Moon, a piece of moonlight captured in a locket.  That's 2 points.  Oh, and maybe a Golem butler/guard, to mind the house while the character is gone.  That's 5 so far.

So that gives me 10 pre-Demigod, 5 during the transition to Demigod, and then 10 during Demigod.  I was thinking a set of Throwing Knives with the unique power that they come back after being thrown for one dot, and then an additional four to enhance them in some way.  Maybe change their metal or something on top of better stats.  And maybe another 5 dedicated to a long coat or something that could change into different clothing, had pockets that could hold a lot more than they should, and was reinforced for armor.

I suppose I could enhance the sneakers with the ability to fly/run on air, on the basis that Hermes invested more of his feathers into it after Alexander became a Demigod.  Oh, and maybe a set of dice in a dice bag that grant him the Chaos Purview, since he'll eventually grab some stuff there.  Aside from that, any suggestions?

[Jefepato]

Throwing knives are all well and good, but his damage output will be pretty low with Strength as a dump stat.  (It's up to you how much that matters, but you'll likely have trouble with enemies who have high soak.)

Also, if you're planning on the flight/running on air bit, you might want to look into the first couple Sky Boons.

[Wheresmycow]

Oh god no, his damage is supposed to be weak sauce.  The throwing knives are meant for minion/extra clearing and trick shots.

As for the flying bit, I read that you can have unique relic powers that function like Boons, based on GM approval.  My hearts not set on this though, since I'm looking more for ways to use up points rather than tricking this character out.

Also, I'm thinking of changing Art (Stage Magician) to Art (Dancing).  The idea of him performing a song and dance number as a distraction is too funny.  "Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal..."

[HairyHeretic]

Running on air would be a mimic of the level 2 sky boon, so that'd be 2 dots.

For the knives .. any addition to speed, accuracy or damage is a 1 dot power. Speed caps out at 4, or 3 if it started at 4. Personally I'd favour accuracy over damage, as accuracy becomes damage anyway, whereas if you don't hit, the damage boost of the relic doesn't matter.

Maybe give the coat the Skin Shedding knack, or Solipsistic Well Being? You could use one of those instant save type boons for surprise attacks. Likewise the Tailor Made knack would let the character spend a point of Legend to create any clothing they wanted.

Armour boost is +1B/+1L per dot invested.

Do you have a clear idea in mind as to what the character is to be? After all, he is close to becoming a God, so he's looking at becoming God of ... ?

Maybe think of getting some relics to access purviews that would tie into that.

[Jefepato]

Do you have a clear idea in mind as to what the character is to be? After all, he is close to becoming a God, so he's looking at becoming God of ... ?

I dunno, Hairy.  If a medical doctor can be God of Extirpation, I would venture that the qualifications for divine positions aren't very rigorous.

[HairyHeretic]

Its not a matter of being qualified so much as having an idea of what you see the character becoming. For my own, I was looking mainly at the archtype of the noble warrior, defender of the weak, kicker of righteous ass and all that *grins*. As the character developed through play, I found him branching out a bit with the death and psychopomp purviews as well, so on top of being the ass kicker, he also escorts the souls of the lost to their proper place for judgement, and on to the tenth Hell for reincarnation (which given the state of the Chinese underworld is akin to running supplies through enemy territory ;) )

[Wheresmycow]

I saw him ending up as the God of Mischief, but in a good way.  Clever pranks and so on, but used to humble the arrogant and bring wisdom and insight to the ignorant.  He also does a lot of random crimes for fun, but they usually aren't normal crimes and challenge the conventional notion of value.  The Chaos purview was the only other purview I was interested in.  Honestly, Alexander is more about the Epic Attributes and Arete than Boons.

Skin Shedding knack is a good idea, since Alexander has the perception and wit knacks that make it impossible to surprise him so Solipsistic Well Being isn't going to be useful.  And I vaguely remember the Tailor Made knack or something like it, but I can't remember where it's from.

Also, I decided I'd sink 5 points into having a suped-up motorcycle.  1 point so that it never needs fuel, 1 point so that it's tires adjust to the terrain and road conditions in order to remove environmental conditions penalties, 1 point to invest in a seat that repairs the bike much like Eric Donner's car hood and 2 points to making it go faster.

[Jefepato]

Honestly, Alexander is more about the Epic Attributes and Arete than Boons.

I'm not sure anyone has ever made a Scion character that wasn't more about the Epic Attributes than Boons.  (And even if you wanted to focus on Boons, you'd still need Epic Attributes to power the activation rolls!)

Tailor Made is in the God book under Epic Appearance, BTW.

[HairyHeretic]

The low level boons are interesting, but when you get up into Demigod you can get some serious power going with them.

[Wheresmycow]

Oh yea, higher level boons are fun.  I gave up Epic Charisma 6 in order to get Rainbow Bridge because the addition of Come Along makes it just too handy and cool.  And I like the Moon stuff because it feels so random and grab bag.

[Jefepato]

Actually, in many cases Demigod Boons seem a lot cooler than God Boons.  (Seriously, how is Blessing of Ammunition a higher-level power than Army of One?)

[HairyHeretic]

I think it's the fact that you can do it to ANY weapon. Think about enchanting the likes of a battleships main guns and then you get an idea of what it might be capable off. Especially since at that time your craft orientated God has already sorted out battlemechs and vehicle mounted railguns  and such :)

[Jefepato]

Well, how much damage do a battleship's main guns do?  You could probably do a lot better as a God.  :P

(Also, if Concept to Execution is any guide, I don't think the writers intended for Craft-oriented Gods to get battlemechs.  But then, a lot of the Epic Intelligence Knacks are a bit questionable anyway.)

[HairyHeretic]

Well, the companion gives a 500lb bomb a rating of 100L, and large artillery as 40L. It suggests the large artillery for battleship guns. Given modern day weapons would be a lot more powerful ...

Those are numbers enough to get even a Gods attention.

[Jefepato]

Note to self: add Craft skills with XP.

[Brandon]

Im almost done with Johan's demigod level but one question comes to mind that I want to bring up. The books say that its a 1 dot power to summon followers through a relic (with 1 legend expenditure) but to summon multiple types  of followers say Samurai, tengu, and shinobi would take 3 dots. Could we make it so 1 dot can summon all of a Scion's followers?

[HairyHeretic]

Consider 'Concept to Execution' from the Companion, possibly along with Unintended Purpose (Chaos 10 - God) or Unlikely Pattern (Chaos 8 - Companion), or even 8 Trigram Transformation (Taiyi 4 - Companion)

[fallensaviour]

hmm i have a concept stoner/gamer guy now i just need to figure out where to go with it, also can i use a mundane beard as a relic then...like if its shaved off i lose use of the relic until it grows back a certin length or number of days?

also...i need to figure out how to build a custom animal...essentially a horse with at least a hero's legend score... and all 3 speed enhancing knacks

[HairyHeretic]

Check the zouwu in the Companion. That should give you a good place to start.

I think its two knacks and one boon for speed enhancement, and that psychopomp one will really eat the points. A relic that mimics a boon is 1 dot per level of the boon power, and I think it's a rank 6 power.

[fallensaviour]

hmm...damn you and being right... so zouwu with fast as a thought on it as well...then what to do with the rest of epic stuff from like...it being a 5 dot creature instead of a 3

[HairyHeretic]

Winds Freedom is a 2 dot boon. Want a flying horse?

Alternately, add a point of relic to it, and have it be able to transform into something small you can carry about with you.

[fallensaviour]

its going to be connected to the relic game controler...you know...for summoning... but i was thinking 5 relic points 1 epic str holy bound and 4 epic dex lightning sprinter x2 faster than a thought and and the crowd goes wild so it wouldnt fail any jumping checks...or at least have a more difficult time failing them ;)

[Empyrean]

Brandon: Could you PM me what followers you're considering taking? I'm more inclined to keep it at 1 dot per group of summoned followers but if the followers are more powerful or less powerful, that might change what it costs to summon them.

Fallensavior: Gods have had stranger attributes this is true. PM me with what you want this beard-relic to do and we'll talk. I could see the beard-relic making sense for a Pesedjet Scion. The Egyptian Pharaohs often attached a fake beard to fit with their iconic images so I can see making it work somehow for your character.

Incidentally, is anyone building a craft-oriented Scion? It's not required or anything, I was just curious.

[avorae]

I do have some skills in crafting particularly with Electronic, mechanics, and Clothing (She is a big Otaku and tends to design and craft a lot of costumes based on various anime.)

I also have a few science and art skills as well to complement here Crafting.

[Jefepato]

My character doesn't have any Craft skills but could pick them up trivially (and has all the prerequisites to take Concept to Execution).  She's meant as something of a generalist, which is to say that I'll throw a bit of XP into EPIC SCIENCE at some point if (and only if) no one else wants to go that route.

[avorae]

My character doesn't have any Craft skills but could pick them up trivially (and has all the prerequisites to take Concept to Execution).  She's meant as something of a generalist, which is to say that I'll throw a bit of XP into EPIC SCIENCE at some point if (and only if) no one else wants to go that route.

I have it covered. I went with the science specialist seeing as we had plenty of fighter. Not that she can't fight either... :P

[Brandon]

My character is only going to have craft firearms and as hes gone from hero to demigod he hasnt really fostered it. His focus will be coordianted assaults and some strong social skills

[Wheresmycow]

Yea, considering the amount of XP we have, investing in a little bit of fighter, just enough to at least not die right away, is not only feasible but probably a good idea.  Probably no where near HairyHeretic's character though, whose probably Sir Killington of Slaughtersville.

I see a lot of interesting cross-over between Johan and Alexander.

[HairyHeretic]

Luke is the son of Sun Wukong, fighting and causing trouble is quite literally in his blood ;)

[Jefepato]

Almost done with sheet and backstory now.  Calculating derived values sure gets complicated...

[Wheresmycow]

For the purposes of Dodge DV, if you have Athletics as one of your chosen focus skills for the alternate Arete, do you double it?

[HairyHeretic]

Are you using the alternate Arete here?

http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index.php?title=Arete_Purview_%28Revised%29

Dodge DV is {[Dex + Athletics + Legend]/2} + Epic Dex bonus

I suppose if you were using something like Beyond Mortal Ken you could claim a dodge DV bonus for Arete, but it would be on a round by round basis.

[Wheresmycow]

I was thinking on the lines of Par Excellence, that little bit at the end where it says that when it comes to skills with knacks like "The Crowd Goes Wild", you double it for purposes of calculating jumping distance, lifting weights and so on.  I just wanted to know if that doubling would apply to dodge DV or not.

On a side note, I was reading the Ragnarok book and as soon as I read the hospitality part of Aesir culture and that Odin could suddenly show up at an Aesir Scion's house, watching TV and wearing the Scion's PJ's, I almost switched Pantheons.

[HairyHeretic]

I was thinking on the lines of Par Excellence, that little bit at the end where it says that when it comes to skills with knacks like "The Crowd Goes Wild", you double it for purposes of calculating jumping distance, lifting weights and so on.  I just wanted to know if that doubling would apply to dodge DV or not.

Hmm. I can see why you'd ask, but I don't know anyone who has used that. GMs call I guess.

On a side note, I was reading the Ragnarok book and as soon as I read the hospitality part of Aesir culture and that Odin could suddenly show up at an Aesir Scion's house, watching TV and wearing the Scion's PJ's, I almost switched Pantheons.

The Laws of Hospitality work both ways though. While you have the obligation to be a good host, they have the obligation to be a good guest too.

[Wheresmycow]

I meant that I was tempted to switch Alexander to be part of the Aesir, not switch out.  That kind of scene would be hilarious to play out.  But a warrior culture has no place for Alexander and being a scion of Hermes is still cool.

[Empyrean]

Wheresmycow: I'm going to rule that Dodge DV is not doubled.

As for Alex being part of the Aesir, I wouldn't object. :) They haven't had much luck with trickster gods in the past (*cough*Loki*cough*), so an up-and-comer might shake things up over there. Similarly, the Yazata might be to your taste if you want to play a different sort of trickster from a pantheon that seems to regard politeness and hospitality a great deal. Their only trickster deity, Vayu, could use some competition if you wanted to go that route.

Or not. Just throwing that out there. :)

[Empyrean]

Incidentally, I've decided that the last thrash of the Atlantean pantheon was to embed the principles for their Scire PSP into the fabric of the World. It's tricky to find and master, but any Scion can have Scire boons at the same cost as a Special Purview not associated with one's parent.

[Jefepato]

Where would relics allowing access to Scire come from?

[avorae]

Where would relics allowing access to Scire come from?

I made a ring for mine. Will have to come up with how she got it though. Of course that requires me to actually get around to doing her backstory which is the ione thing i am terrible at.

[Wheresmycow]

I'll be sticking with Hermes.  Arete just fits for Alexander and the whole quest towards being a master trickster/thief.

As for character back story, I was thinking Alexander's mother was an incredibly wealthy business woman.  While she was busy with running her business, she would spend what free time she had raising and doting on Alexander.  As such, Alexander came from a happy household.  Very precocious child, liked causing trouble and pulling pranks.  Extensive juvenile record until he hit 16, mostly because he finally mastered the art of not getting caught.  Didn't end up in juvie ever, mostly because of a rich and influential mom and because his crimes were on the unusual side.  Had his visitation on his 18th birthday, while trying to out con the three-card monte con man who turned out to be Hermes.

Though I'm tempted to say that maybe Alexander is actually descended from Zeus, but because Hermes liked Alexander's style, the messenger god decided to adopt Alexander as his own.  Whether or not this allows Alexander to escape Hera's wrath... fun times.

[Empyrean]

Jefepato: Such relics wouldn't be commonly made, but some were in ancient times. They wouldn't be things handed out by parents/guides, but by Legend 8, I'll allow that in your background adventures your PCs might have found one of these relics.

Wheresmycow: Nice background. :) And a descendant of Zeus adopted by Hermes. Very workable. *looks at the gleaming plot hooks and grins*

[Wheresmycow]

Happy to set my character up for a fall, or at least a troubled life.

[Empyrean]

For those playing Scions of the Tuatha de Dannan, the alternate War 4 boon listed under Riastran works with Marksmanship.

For all: War 7 also works with Marksmanship, as the concept of gunslingers is a concept of warriors nowadays.

[Jefepato]

I assume you're talking about Colossus Armor?  (Siege Juggernaut in Companion Part 2 is also War 7, although I'm pretty sure it already works with guns just fine.)

[Empyrean]

Oops. Yeah, I meant Siege Juggernaut.

Also, I'm hoping to start the game by this weekend. :)

[Wheresmycow]

Sweet, I'll try and consolidate all my character's info together in one neat post.

[Wheresmycow]

Oh, rules question: I can't find the stats for throwing knives anywhere.  Can I use the stats for the Hadseax (Hero p. 202) as stats for throwing knives, maybe dropping the Defense attribute and swapping it with Range 10?  Also, could I add the Piercing quality to it, and if so, for how much?

[HairyHeretic]

Hadseax are probably about right. Throwing knives tend to be smaller and lighter, so you might even want to drop the damage by 1, and increase either the accuracy or speed. Piercing I don't think would go on, unless you were making them relics maybe?

[Jefepato]

The Companion has stats for shuriken, but they're kinda terrible (although they are Piercing) so the hadseax might be a better starting point, yeah.

[Wheresmycow]

Hadseax are probably about right. Throwing knives tend to be smaller and lighter, so you might even want to drop the damage by 1, and increase either the accuracy or speed. Piercing I don't think would go on, unless you were making them relics maybe?

Whoops, forgot to mention that I meant how much piercing would cost in terms of dots of relic.

[HairyHeretic]

I'd say 1 dot most likely.

[Brandon]

Rough draft. Ive never done a demigod game before so there may be mistakes

Name: Johan Hartmond
God: Hades
Nature: Architect
Calling: International businessman

Abilities

Strength 2     Charisma 8           Perception 5
Dexterity 6    Manipulation 6       Intelligence 8
Stamina 3     Appearance 4         Wits 4

Epic Dexterity 4
Epic Charisma 4
Epic Intelligence 5
Epic Manipulation 5
Epic Perception 1
Epic Stamina 3
Epic Wits 2

Skills

Academics* 4
Animal Ken
Art
Athletics 1
Awareness 2
Brawl 1
Command* 5
Control (Cars) 1

Craft (Firearms) 3
Empathy 5
Fortitude 3
Integrity 3
Investigation 5
Larceny 1
Marksmanship 5
Medicine

Melee
occult* 1
Politics 5
Presence* 5
Science (Computer) 1
Stealth* 5
Survival
thrown*

*notes a favored ability

Languages
English (native)              Swahili
German                         Japanese
Spanish                         Greek
French                           Arabic
Dutch

Birthrights
Followers 5 (20 zombies)
Relic 4 (Gloves of Death)
Relic 2 (Bloodstone ring)
Relic 5 (Armor of hades)

Knacks
Takes one to know one (Manipulation)
Overt order (Manipulation)
Stench of guilt (Manipulation)
Hard sell (Manipulation)
Deprogramming (Manipulation)
Trick shooter (Dexterity)
Untouchable opponent (Dexterity)
Cat’s grace (Dexterity)
Whirlwind shield (Dexterity)
Inspirational figure (Charisma)
Blessing of importance (Charisma)
Benefit of the doubt (Charisma)
Preach on (Charisma)
Crowd control (Charisma)
Know it all (Intelligence)
Math genius (Intelligence)
Perfect memory (Intelligence)
Cipher (Intelligence)
Tactical planning (Intelligence)
Subliminal warning (Perception)
Holy fortitude (Stamina)
Self-healing (Stamina)
Regeneration (Stamina)
Instant investigation (Wits)
Social chameleon (Wits)

Boons
Arête: Craft 2
Arete: Stealth 4
Night Eyes (1 dot darkness purview)
Shadow Mask (2 dot darkness purview)
Shadow refuge (3 dot darkness purview)
Shadow step (4 dot darkness purview)
Shadow craft (5 dot darkness purview)
Shadow shroud (6 dot darkness purview)
Shadow bodies (7 dot darkness purview)
Death senses (1 dot death purview)
Euthenasia (2 dot death purview)
Unquiet corpse (3 dot death purview)
Summon ghost (4 dot death purview)
Excorsism (6 dot death purview)
Haunted mists (7 dot death purview)
Safely interred (1 dot earth purview)
Shaping (3 dot earth purview)
Earth armor (4 dot earth purview)
Earth travel (5 dot earth purview)
Landslide (7 dot earth purview)

Virtues
Expression 2
Intellect 4
Valor 2
Vengeance 1

Willpower 8/8
Legend 8
Legend points 64/64
Soak 12B 10L A3
Dodge DV:
Health levels

0  []
-0 [][]
-0 [][]
-0 []
I  []

Equipment

FN P90 (4 magazines of ammo)
Glock 20 (4 magazines of ammo)
Knife
Cell phone

Bonus points (25 total)
Willpower 7 & 8 = 4
Armor of Hades = 5
Guide 5 = 7
Silver amulet = 1
Epic stamina 2 & 3 = 8

Bloodstone ring (2 dot relic)

-Access to earth and Darkness purviews

Gloves of death (4 dot relic)

-summons zombies for 1 legend
-access to the death purview
-Unique power: Creatures summoned with the gloves regenerate after 1 day
-Doubles duration of death boons

Armor of hades (5 dot Relic)
The armor of hades is a Greek stylized Lamellar armor forged by the Cyclops of old and worn by Hades previous generals.

The armor is thin and flexible, made of a black alloy the lord of the underworld calls hellsteel (A mix of Iron, silver, and flecks of obsidian). It was originally crafted by the few generals of hells armies and eventually given out to power gods and Demigods that represented Hades interests.

-+1 bashing/lethal soak
- -2 mobility
-Unique power: The armor gives the wearer a number of bonus dice on (Charisma + Command) rolls equal to his/her legend score
-Unique power: Anyone without a legend score can not detect the armor with any of the five senses

Silver amulet (Relic 1)

-Allows Johan to telepathically speak with any of the Furies from any distance

The furies (Guide 5)

Demigod pg 238

XP spent 297

Charisma 7 = 24
Charisma 8 = 28
Intelligence 8 = 28
Shadow craft = 20
Shadow shroud = 24
Shadow bodies = 28
Excorsism = 24
Haunted mists = 28
Earth travel = 20
Landslide = 28
Epic intelligence 5 (Tactical planning) = 20
Epic Manipulation 5 (Deprogramming) = 20
Charisma Knack: Crowd control = 5

[Jefepato]

We're using an alternate version of the Arete Purview in this game, Brandon.  The link is somewhere on page 2 of the thread, or here: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index.php?title=Arete_Purview_%28Revised%29

Also, Whirlwind Shield seems like a pretty odd choice of Knack when you don't have any dots in Melee.

[Brandon]

When I looked over the arete purview rewrite I was under the impression that it still applied for multiple skills. So I'll think about putting 2 dots into something else and keep the four that was put under stealth

Also Whirlwind shield can be used unarmed

[Jefepato]

The new Arete applies to 6 skills, but you only have to buy it once.

[Phaia]

You know I have noticed that there seems to be all Lords playing in this... Hairy got me interested in Scion way back last year. I have a couple of ideas including upgrading a certain scion of Bast that hairy helped create...

Any openings left let me know please

Good luck all

Phaia

[Empyrean]

Phaia: PM me with your ideas. :)

Brandon: I'll look over the mechanics in the morning when I'm not so tired but a quick glance hasn't turned up anything objectionable.

Wheresmycow: Piercing adds a dot to the cost of the relic I believe. Hadseax damage will work fine.

[HairyHeretic]

Also Whirlwind shield can be used unarmed

It can, but you really want something to parry with. Body armour is a good knack for that. If your gloves are metal gauntlet types, that'd work. And at a pinch you can use the barrel of your own gun, but really a relic weapon is the best choice for that.

[Empyrean]

Brandon: Looks good to me. Could you PM me the whole sheet with the background info as well as the mechanics?

So far it looks like we have the following characters done or nearly done:

Luke Xiang, son of the Monkey King
Yuriko Watanabe, daughter of Amaterasu
Amy Kalder, daughter of Uller
A yet unnamed daughter of the Morrigan
Johan Hartmond, son of Hades
Alexander Cabott, son of Hermes

And there is a unnamed son of Guan Yu in the works, and  Phaia's character, of the Pesedjet. Am I correct or am I missing someone?

[Jefepato]

Rukio had a concept for a Scion of Lugh back on page 1, but I don't think he's posted since then.

Empyrean, were you planning to have the various PCs already familiar with each other and/or working together, or will they mostly not know each other to start with?

[HairyHeretic]

Fate has a habit of steering Scions into bands, usually before they reach Demigodhood. I would imagine the characters would know at least some of each other.

Perhaps take a leaf from the Dresden Files chargen here, and have the players link up through backstories? I can easily toss out a few scenarios I've played with Luke that others could have been involved with, and I expect everyone else could do the same.

[Phaia]

I am working on a character that could be a great link for everyone...she is after all 2000 years old yes she is a bit slow at becoming a goddess but there is a back story...


Phaia

[Rukio]

I am afraid I'm gonna have to drop out of this one. Sorry all, but I'm just way too busy right now.

[Phaia]

I have some questions I cant find an answer too in any of the books.
Under advancement in the Heros book it lists under new trait 'Knack' for 5 xp. Can a knack be bought for an attribute that does not have an epic in it? can you have more knacks then epic attributes in an Attibute? ie can you have 10 knacks in dex and only 3 epics?

Phaia

[Scya]

I don't remember  what the answer is for your first question  but yes you can have 10 knacks and only 3 epics

[Jefepato]

Can a knack be bought for an attribute that does not have an epic in it?

No.  See the last sentence on Hero page 125.  But then, why would you want to?

can you have more knacks then epic attributes in an Attibute? ie can you have 10 knacks in dex and only 3 epics?

Sure.  The option to buy Knacks wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

[Phaia]

thanks I see that now and you answered both questions. Of course as an anwser as to why you would want to buy a knack in an attribute with no epic...I can think of several int knacks off the bat...language mastery,  and then fast learner and star pupil would half xp well over 3/4s of the abilities.

Thanks for the quick responce!!

Phaia

[Phaia]

This is the image for my character hope you all like...more to follow as I finish!!
and darn it I keep loosing track on how to resize the image!!

Phaia

[Phaia]

okay I have another question. Yea I am full of them.
I have discovered a weirdness. I took fast Learner and Star Pupil as knacks this makes four of my 6 favored abilities very cheap in some cases it sss free... as an example...brawl is a favored ability with star pupil the xp cost is half [like fast learner] this means that with 1 dot to start in brawl it would by the rules cost nothing to raise it to 2 dots :)
ability favored [rating x2]-1 =1 divided by 2 [star pupil] =1/2 rounded in my favor since she has legend makes it 0. Now I figure it will cost 1 xp but wanted to know if anyone has run across this before?

Phaia

[Jefepato]

Uh...good question.

I don't think I ran into this issue when I built my character, but if I did I would have assumed that 1 xp was a minimum.  I don't see anything specific on this topic in the books, though...

[Phaia]

be nice if that second dot is free give a free extra XP!!

Phaia

[Phaia]

I am getting into the seriuos xp spending and wanted to know if sirce is considered a speicla purview or a pantheon purview?

Phaia

[Wheresmycow]

Here's the latest character sheet for Alexander.  Couldn't figure out what to spend my last 5 Birthright points on since Creatures, Followers and Guides don't suit the character and I'm stuck on potential relics.  And I'm pm'ing a copy to you Empyrean.

Name:	Alexander Bartholomew Cabbot
Scion of:	Hermes
Calling:	Charming, Audacious Rascal
Nature:	Gambler

Strength:	2		Charisma:	6		Perception:	5
Epic:	1		Epic:	5		Epic:	4
Dexterity:	6		Manipulation:	6		Intelligence:	6
Epic:	6		Epic:	6		Epic:	6
Stamina:	4		Appearance:	4		Wits:	6
Epic:	4		Epic:	2		Epic:	6

Academics:	2
Art (Dancing):	5
Art (Singing):	5
Athletics:	5
Awareness:	5
Brawl:	3
Control (Motorcycle):	4
Empathy:	5
Fortitude:	3
Integrity:	5
Larceny:	5
Occult:	5
Presence:	5
Stealth:	5
Survival:	1
Thrown:	5

Relic 2:	Moon's Grace - Golden Locket containing a moonbeam from the four corners of the world.
	Grants access to the Moon and Psychopomp purview.
Relic 2:	Airwings - Sneakers graced with feathers from Hermes's sandals.
	Allows Alexander to fly as per Wind's Freedom Boon.
Relic 1:	Chaos Dice - Dice made from the bones of a Chimera.
	Grants access to the Chaos Purview.
Relic 5:	Hydra's Bite - A set of throwing knives made from the fangs of the Lernaean Hydra.
	Returns to the owner after being thrown.  Has +2 Accuracy, Speed 3 and Piercing.
Relic 5:	Veil of Hermes - Longcoat inlaid with some threads made from the Golden Fleece.
	Can alter clothing as per Tailor Made knack.  Has +4B/+4L armour.
Relic 5:	The Road King - Harley Davidson Roadking Classic replaced with various enchanted parts.
	Never needs fuel, tires change to match the terrain, +3 to Maneuverability.
Relic 2:	Motorcycle Cover
	As long as all the parts of the Road King are gathered together under the cover, it will be made whole again the following day at dawn.
Relic 3:	Runic Bracelet - Metal bracelet with Greek summoning runes on it.
	Can summon Hydra's Bite, The Road King and Motorcycle Cover.
Relic 5:

Arete 4:	[Athletics, Awareness, Larceny, Presence, Stealth, Thrown] Mystic Endowment, Par Excellence, Show Off, Beyond Mortal Ken
Moon 1- 4:	Smoking Mirror, Tidal Interference, Phase Cloak, Lunacy
Psychopomp 1- 4, 7:	Unerring Orientation, Where Are You?, Unbarred Entry, Come Along, Rainbow Bridge

Strength Knacks:	Hurl to the Horizon
Dexterity Knacks:	Cat's Grace, Divine Balance, Escape Artist, Perfect Partner, Ricochet Symphony, Roll With It
Stamina Knacks:	Body Armor, Inner Furnace, Regeneration, Self-Healing
Charisma Knacks:	Benefit of the Doubt, Boys Will Be Boys, Charmer, Hapless Cool, Never Say Die
Manipulation Knacks:	Advantageous Circumstances, Blurt It Out, God's Honest, Overt Order, Stench of Guilt, Takes One to Know One
Appearance Knacks:	Doin' Fine, My Eyes Are Up Here
Perception Knacks:	Environmental Awareness, Parallel Attention, Subliminal Warning, Telescopic Senses
Intelligence Knacks:	Blockade of Reason, Language Mastery, Multitasking, Perfect Memory, Speed Reader, Telepathy
Wits Knacks:	Eternal Vigilance, Jack of All Trades, Monkey in the Middle, Perfect Imposter, Psychic Profiler, Social Chameleon

Expression:	2
Intellect:	4
Valor:	2
Vengeance:	1

Bashing Soak:	15
Lethal Soak:	13
Aggravated Soak:	8

Willpower:	10/10
Legend:	8
Legend Points:	64

[Scya]

Incidentally, I've decided that the last thrash of the Atlantean pantheon was to embed the principles for their Scire PSP into the fabric of the World. It's tricky to find and master, but any Scion can have Scire boons at the same cost as a Special Purview not associated with one's parent.

[Phaia]

I missed that thanks!!

Phaia

[Phaia]

Okay just want to be sure of this...the bonus dots both from hero and the Gm...[totals 25] are spent by the hero summary chart....it was a bit confusing when you talking about spending

***You need only spend one point to buy the next Boon in a Purview, instead of spending multiple points. So if you wanted to purchase say Fire 1 at character creation, that would cost one of your starting dots. Fire 2 would only cost you one dot as well, instead of 2 dots. The same with Epic Attributes. One dot gets you one dot of Epic Wits. You'd pay another dot for a second dot of E Wits instead of paying 2 dots for it.***


Does this apply to the bonus dodts as well...ie can i buy epics for one bonus dot !!!

Phaia

[Scya]

yes you can, but you should remember that you can 10 aditional dot when transfering from hero to demigod and can't  buy rang 6 and higher epics or boons higher then level 4.
and how do you get to 25 points?

[Phaia]

***10 extra free points can be spent on Guides, Relics, Creatures, and Followers at Hero level. Another 10 freebie points can be spent at the Demigod level. No one is allowed to start with aggravated damage weapons. Relics bought or gained at Hero may be upgraded at Demigod, as long as the PC can give a decent justification for it.***

You get 15 from character design hero pg 101 so you get 25 bonus points to spend!!

Phaia

[Scya]

ah sorry ,my mistake i misunderstood you
those 15 freebie points /Bonus points  that you get use the normal table.
the one dot for one dot rule is for the  points gained that you optain from :STEP FOUR: ADVANTAGES
Choose Birthrights (5—none may be higher than 3 before spending bonus points), Boons and
Epic Attributes (10), and Virtues (5—none may be higher than 4 before spending bonus points).

[Wheresmycow]

Also, my interpretation of the wording might not be correct, but judging by how that paragraph was phrased, I think those 10 extra freebie points gained at Demigod are supposed to be used for Creatures, Followers, Guides and Relics, just like the 10 extra gained at Hero.  I think it's supposed to reflect the fact that as we go through Demigod, we pick up extra swag and tag-alongs along the way.

[HairyHeretic]

I believe so, yes. Over the course of play, you would expect to pick up a few relics and contacts and such. That's what those dots are to represent.

[Phaia]

Okay after looking at what I have after adding in demigod points i am way off of everyone else....heck I dont have an epic attribute past 3
I must have misread something along the way....can the 300xp be used on a one to one basis for epics and boons? I spent almost 100 xp in heroe to raise attributes...another 100xp+ on boons and a appox 100 on abilities.
15 bonus on relics and from the gm 10 points on relics

where have I gone worng here cause after upgrading to demigod and before speding the last 300xp there is NO way I can match what everyone else has
**facepalms**
I am having a  blonde moment and here I spent hours and hours working on Cleo **sighs**
I need to go do some actaull house work

Phaia

[Scya]

from these 15 bonus point you could have bought  some high attributes because this is one of the most efficient ways to spend them. If you want to buy some nonfavored attributes buy them , or at least the first dot with the 10 points that you have for boons and attributes.
For example if you want to have charisma(non favored) and stamina(favored) both with 3 epics.
Buying them with exp alone would cost you 45 exp.  but if you use 3 dots , for example to gain stamina 3, it would cost you 25exp, but, if you instead used those 3 dots to buy charisma you would only have to pay 20 exp, and if you would have bought charisma 2 and stamina 1 it would  be 22 exp

Remember that you gain another 9 attribute points (in a 4/3/2 spread)when going from hero to demigod that can't raise you attributes to 6 so plan accordingly so that you can use them while upgrading.  and most of those 10 additional points for boons and attributes that you obtain when transferring to demigod where used, at least for me, to increase my Epics  from 3 to 5 because prior you are unable to do based on the legend score.

and remember you ony need to pay curent rang x4 for a boon if you buy them in order in a purviev

[HairyHeretic]

You can use the 300xp at both hero and demigod level to buy epic abilities, yes. The cost of them will vary, depending on what you have favoured, and how many dots of epic whatever you already have.

[Jefepato]

Like most White Wolf games, XP costs operate on a completely different scale than character-creation (and demigod upgrade) costs.  It's easy to fall behind if you don't keep this in mind from the start.  :-(

[Phaia]

i am seeing people with all these high epics and in almost every attribute. I mean looking at Jefepato character she has 42 dots in epics....42 .....HOW!!!??
23 dots in relics??

Even with spending all the bonus points in epics all i get is 35 epics and then i have no decent relics?

I am lost?? there is no way using the advancement as i read it that i can get that high...even assuming you use current as a 1 and all epics are favored thats 168 xp and thats figuring the formula as rating 1[42] x4

I dont understand how epics could get to 5s, 6s and 7s for the xp we have!!

Help!!

Phaia

[Scya]

you should remember that you gain10 adition dots for Epics and powers with the demigod template and also 15 freebies  most of my template ugrade went into my epics. And with the next 300 exp i only bought 5 epics and the atributes to enable them.

[Empyrean]

Well, we are starting at Legend 8 so it is possible. Attributes can rise to 8 for your characters, and Epic Attributes can rise to one dot less than your Legend. So at Legend 8 you can have up to 7 dots in an Epic Attributes if you have 8 dots in the matching regular Attribute.

Example: If Cleo has Charisma at 8, then she can have Epic Charisma at 7. And remember, you get a free knack for every dot of an Epic Attribute that you have. :)

[Phaia]

Well, we are starting at Legend 8 so it is possible. Attributes can rise to 8 for your characters, and Epic Attributes can rise to one dot less than your Legend. So at Legend 8 you can have up to 7 dots in an Epic Attributes if you have 8 dots in the matching regular Attribute.

Example: If Cleo has Charisma at 8, then she can have Epic Charisma at 7. And remember, you get a free knack for every dot of an Epic Attribute that you have. :)

I understand that but how do you purshace that....

example hero cha 4 epic 2 [legend 3]
demigod  cha 6 epic 4 [legend 5] so by now i have put 4 bonus into epic cha

to buy it up to an attribute 8 52 xp to get to epic cha 7 takes rating 4x5=20; 5x5=25 ; 6x5= 30 or another 85xp thats a32 xp to get One attribute to a decent place...maybe i am missing something since thats over half the bonus xp and to do a couple more gets it quickly to 200xp that leaves none really for boons

i went through 100 xp at hero level for 1-3 boons ina 4 purviews
so basically ya can get a couple of boons and to get to mystery 7... costs 19 to level 3 at hero and 90 xp at demigodso basically i ahve one purview at level 7 and nothing to use it with since i dont have the xp


Phaia

[HairyHeretic]

Ok, let's run through the basics. You start at Legend 3, which means you can have up to Epic 2 in any particular ability. You can, if you want, put all 10 points into knacks, and nothing into boons from your starting points, so there's 10 dots worth of epic abilities as well. You also have your 15 bonus points. Another point of Epic is 5 of those 15, or 4 if it's favoured. So, if you buy non favoured epics with the 10 dots, and favoured with the bonus points, you can potentially save yourself 3 bonus points to spend on other stuff.

Before you spend any xp, there's 13 points worth of epics (max Epic 2)

Then you have 300 xp to spend on Epics, capping at Epic 3.

Buying the first dot of Epic  (favoured) is 8xp
Buying the first dot of Epic (non favoured) is 10xp

Increasing a favoured Epic from 2 to 3 is 8xp
Increasing a non favoured Epic from 1 to 2 is 5xp
Increasing a non favoured Epic from 2 to 3 is 10xp

So, if you buy 1 dot of Epic everything from your starting points, you save on xp, which can be used to increase abilities and skills, or buy boons as well.

Next we go to Legend 5, and add the Demigod powerups. At this point you're capped at Epic 4, so you may have less options on where to put those points. It still probably works out cheaper to boost your non favoured Epics from here. After you spend those points, you have the bonus points again, which could get you another 3 epics.

Now you move automatically to Legend 8, and have 300 more xp to spend.

Let's assume you're on Epic 4 at this point.

Increasing a favoured Epic from 4 to 5 is 16xp
Increasing a favoured Epic from 5 to 6 is 20xp
Increasing a favoured Epic from 6 to 7 is 24xp

Increasing a non favoured Epic from 3 to 4 is 15xp
Increasing a non favoured Epic from 4 to 5 is 20xp
Increasing a non favoured Epic from 5 to 6 is 25xp
Increasing a non favoured Epic from 6 to 7 is 30xp

It's expensive, yes, but certainly doable for at least the favoured epics. Keep in mind you have to raise your attributes too, which effectively runs up the cost of your Epics.

Does that help any?

[Scya]

And your attribute only has to equal your Epic, so  7 dots of Epics Charisma only require you to have  charisma 7

[HairyHeretic]

Did you also remember the points break for buying purviews in sequence?

If you're buying them in order it would be

Favoured purview rank 1 - 4xp (Presuming its not free, which you could interpret it as)
Favoured purview rank 2 - 4xp
Favoured purview rank 3 - 8xp
Favoured purview rank 4 - 12xp
Favoured purview rank 5 - 16xp
Favoured purview rank 6 - 20xp
Favoured purview rank 7 - 24xp

Non favoured purview rank 1 - 5xp
Non favoured purview rank 2 - 5xp
Non favoured purview rank 3 - 10xp
Non favoured purview rank 4 - 15xp
Non favoured purview rank 5 - 20xp
Non favoured purview rank 6 - 25xp
Non favoured purview rank 7 - 30xp

So yes, if you're buying a lot of boons, the costs will mount up fast. However, if you buy boons with your demigod upgrade (or Hero start up points), spending 3 of your 10 points will get you rank 1,2 and 3 in a purview.

[Phaia]

here is my sheet i used

horus has only a single favored attirbute [strength]  and frankly taking it doesnt exactly fit the character....
I may have to change the concept a good bit
I used all 10 points on epics and also bought fast learner and star pupil to reduce costs of abilities and i dont have the pantheon purview and spent all the rest and i used all the bonus points on relics...that may change quickly!!

Phaia

300xp for legend 4:
Attributes: 94xp
Dexterity to 3dot-8xp; to 4dot-12xp- to 5dot-16xp             Total 36
Manipulation to 4dot-12xp                        Total 12 {48}
Appearance to 5dot-16xp                        Total 16 {64}
Perception to 4dot-12xp                        Total 12 {78}
Intelligence to 5dot-16Xp                        Total 16 {94}
Abilities: 111xp.
*Fast Learner, ^star pupil
Favored abilities; Athletics^ 6xp; Brawl^ 6xp; melee^ 6xp; Awareness 12xp; [total from favored 30xp]
Non-favored abilities: Academics * 10xp; Control cars 5xp; craft Jewel craft^ 3xp; Fortitude 6xp; Integrity 6xp; Investigation^ 7xp; Larceny^ 7xp; Marksmanship^ 11xp; Medicine* 3xp; Occult* 7xp; Science*: Archaeology 4xp; Science* Atlantean 4xp; Stealth 2xp; Survival^ 4xp; Thrown 2xp [total from non-favored abilities 81xp]

Boons: 95xp points
Mystery                   1dot -4xp; 2dot-5xp; 3dot-10xp             total 19xp
Animal: Falcon *   1 dot [communicate]-4xp               total 4xp
Justice*      2 dot [Guilt Apparitions]-8xp            total 8xp
Moon*         1 dot [Smoking Mirror]-4xp               
         2 dot [Tidal Interference]-8xp            total 12xp
Sky*         1 dot [Sky’s Grace]-4xp
         2 dot [Wind’s Freedom]-8xp
         3 dot [Storm Augmentation]-12xp            total 24xp
Sun*         1 dot [Penetrating Glare]-4xp
Magic         1 dot [Ariadne’s Thread]-4xp
         2 dot [Bona Fortuna]-5xp
         3 dot [Demand A Labor]-10xp            total 19xp   
         

[Phaia]

also hairy refering back to the relic i shown ya....the knack Body armor does exactly what the relic did for same cost etc...so it seems its cheaper to get the knack then get a relic?
the relic cost 7 points i can take a 1dot relic for the purview and 5 xp for the knack and get the same thing...cheaper saving 1 xp!!

is that correct?

Phaia

[HairyHeretic]

Dots and points of xp are very different things :)

As for spending your bonus points on relics, did you remember that you get 15 additional bonus points that represent gaining relics, guides and followers as you moved through Hero, and the same at Demigod?

[Scya]

and if you by the 5 dot in yoir non epic atributs with your demigod template you have 32 aditional exp,
and the math for your boons is wrong
Boons: 95xp points
Mystery                   1dot -4xp; 2dot-5xp; 3dot-10xp             total 19xp
Animal: Falcon *   1 dot [communicate]-4xp               total 4xp
Justice*      2 dot [Guilt Apparitions]-4xp (if you already have one  dot in justice  it cost you only  4  total and for only  8xp you gain both dots
Moon*         1 dot [Smoking Mirror]-4xp               
         2 dot [Tidal Interference]-4xp            total 8xp
Sky*         1 dot [Sky’s Grace]-4xp
         2 dot [Wind’s Freedom]-4xp
         3 dot [Storm Augmentation]-8xp            total 16xp
Sun*         1 dot [Penetrating Glare]-4xp
Magic         1 dot [Ariadne’s Thread]-4xp
         2 dot [Bona Fortuna]-5xp
         3 dot [Demand A Labor]-10xp            total 19xp   

[Phaia]

so i saved 16 xp thanks i was seeing that as i was reading hairys responce...still 16 aint much

after hero level 4 she has
str 2
dex 5 ep1
sta 3 ep 2
cha 2
man 3
appearence 4 ep 2
perc 4 ep 1
intel 4 epic 2
wits 3 epi 2

**shrugs**
This is my first time at buildinga  demigod and i have already spent something like 10 hours on it and honestly....I have never taken that long for a character build... i was trying for a concept and just need to go min/max drop off relics that can be copyied with kancks and spend those points elsewhere

Phaia

[HairyHeretic]

Well, we can give you a hand with it :)

[Phaia]

Dots and points of xp are very different things :)

As for spending your bonus points on relics, did you remember that you get 15 additional bonus points that represent gaining relics, guides and followers as you moved through Hero, and the same at Demigod?

yes i did hairy at hero level i spent all of those plus the 10 bonus on relics and birthrights based on the companion.... 7 dots alone for a falcon which si gonna go byby and 7 for the seal which i can drop to 1 for the perview save the 6 bonus points and use some of the 16xp to buy the kanck Body armor which does exactly what I was trying to do with the seal I sent you.

Phaia

[Scya]

hm how do you want to spent the 4/3/2 attribute dots that you gain with the demigod template?

[HairyHeretic]

Bear in mind, you don't have to buy the Epic to buy an additional knack. Buying a knack on its own is .. 5xp, IIRC.

[Phaia]

Bear in mind, you don't have to buy the Epic to buy an additional knack. Buying a knack on its own is .. 5xp, IIRC.

but you do have to have an epic in the att you are buying the knack for correct?

and scya i am not sure the concept i have works with scion or the god i chose i suppose i can alter her a good bit but chanegs things

Phaia

[Scya]

no i meant if you want to add the +2 attribute point category to physical attributes and raise stamina to 5  it would be better to raise Dex prior with your exp only to 4 and raise stamina to 4 with exp. with the upgrade you would increase both to 5. In the end both attributes  would be at 5 but you would gain 4 additional xp

[Jefepato]

You do have to have an Epic Attribute before you can buy any Knacks for it.  If you want Knacks for an Attribute, you should use one of your starting 10 Epic points on it.

(Sheesh, the Pesedjet Gods really don't have many associated Epic Attributes!  Odin and Tezcatlipoca really need to teach those guys how it's done.)

[HairyHeretic]

As long as you have one point of Epic attribute, yes. Though in all honesty, I'd recommend everyone take either epic stamina or epic dex to give them some survivability. Or cast Deus Ex Machina a lot ;)

I had that in one of my games, where someone had a ring with that spell in it. It would save them once, then they'd recast it into the ring to 'charge it up'. If you don't mind fatebondings, it's another handy way to keep yourself safe.

[Phaia]

You do have to have an Epic Attribute before you can buy any Knacks for it.  If you want Knacks for an Attribute, you should use one of your starting 10 Epic points on it.

(Sheesh, the Pesedjet Gods really don't have many associated Epic Attributes!  Odin and Tezcatlipoca really need to teach those guys how it's done.)

not only does Tezcat have 5 epic att as favored he has 9 purviews including magic/mystrey and prof as favors...that god rocks...to bad about all the blood letting!!

Phaia

[Wheresmycow]

As long as you have one point of Epic attribute, yes. Though in all honesty, I'd recommend everyone take either epic stamina or epic dex to give them some survivability. Or cast Deus Ex Machina a lot ;)

I had that in one of my games, where someone had a ring with that spell in it. It would save them once, then they'd recast it into the ring to 'charge it up'. If you don't mind fatebondings, it's another handy way to keep yourself safe.

I got some Epic Stamina on top of high Epic Dexterity.  You could be trickier than a greased weasel but sometimes you need to be able to take a punch to the face.

[fallensaviour]

roll with it helps with that..adding dex (or epic dex) to soak

[fallensaviour]

(Sheesh, the Pesedjet Gods really don't have many associated Epic Attributes!  Odin and Tezcatlipoca really need to teach those guys how it's done.)

they make up for it with heku which is one of the most awesome purviews in the game, potion making, insanely fast legend recovery, shadow traps... fuckin awesome

[HairyHeretic]

If you have high eInt, get Fight With Your Head, and simply strip off the other guys eDex successes. That tends to make you pretty hard to hit too.

[Phaia]

I was wondering...what is better to have +DV or soak? Reason I am asking is i have 2 points left for relics from hero build and was looking at armor...i could add +2b/+2L or +2 DV which would work better?

I would think +DV is better  but is it?

Phaia

[Jefepato]

That's hard to say, since there are ways around both.  Without knowing what your character currently looks like otherwise, I'd probably go with DV.  (But if your soak isn't also high, I really recommend getting a Knack to protect you from surprise attacks.)

[Phaia]

That's hard to say, since there are ways around both.  Without knowing what your character currently looks like otherwise, I'd probably go with DV.  (But if your soak isn't also high, I really recommend getting a Knack to protect you from surprise attacks.)

hmm you mean Like Eternal Vigliance perhaps? Cleo is not the normal combat kicker machine she tends to use ranged and thes e days guns and is very good at them [better then you might believe with certain ones] and she has the knack Body armor as well as UO!

Phaia

[Jefepato]

I was thinking of Rabbit Reflexes, but yes, that works too.

[HairyHeretic]

I would take DV over soak. If they can't hit you, doesn't matter how much soak you have :)

[Empyrean]

Hey everyone! The OOC thread is up: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=85141.0

[fallensaviour]

In all honesty i'm not sure if i'm going to be able to make this, i have a basic concept but have not worked out how i want to level it, or even how i want to start it.

[HairyHeretic]

If you want a hand brainstorming, I'm willing to help.

[Brandon]

likewise if you want some help, just ask. I'll throw out my thoughts

[fallensaviour]

yes please i have the relics somewhat planned out, but need ideas on stats/epic stats/ boons etc but please im me at yahoo or msn or aim to help me with this, i find them quicker than pms and hitting reload every 5 seconds

[Wheresmycow]

As a potential tie between characters, I can see Alexander meeting and working with Johan at some point, likely because they share the same pantheon.  Luke and Alexander might also have a past, Hermes maybe sending him to see how close the son of Sun Wukong has fallen from the tree.  Or they could have hijinks, who knows.  Not certain about Yuriko or Amy.  Maybe he tricked them at some point in time?