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The Elliquian Herald & Post
Issue 74 (Autumn) ~ August thru October 2017

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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 204883 times)

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Offline wander

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3550 on: Yesterday at 12:30:15 PM »
As Glyph mentioned, it needs to go over it's budget by some to cover the advertising to even turn a profit. I believe in comparison that the new Blade Runner actually performed better and at least barely made it's budget back and that's been called the flop of the summer. Justice League is yet to even reach it's budget. Which is sad, I'm not cheery about that at all. It seems a fun film, I was planning to see it this week and most reviews have basically said it's 'meh, it's fine filler, won't need to see it again once you seen it'. For DCEU, that's not the worst their films have been reviewed as.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3551 on: Yesterday at 01:23:57 PM »
Not to mention that DC has put a lot of hope and investment into this being the launching point for the full DCMU franchise. They were depending on an Avengers-level breakout hit to compete with Marvel in the film arena, but stuttered repeatedly with MoS, BvS, SS, with WW as the lone bright spot. They needed far more than a 'meh, it's not horrible' at this point, and they failed to get it.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3552 on: Yesterday at 01:51:03 PM »
I believe in comparison that the new Blade Runner actually performed better
BR2049 domestic opening weekend $33M or 18% of the budget, JL $96M or 34% of the budget.

Not sure Blade Runner 2049 is a good example of a 'flop'. The original movie was a commercial disaster, $33M global box office on a $28M budget but it eventually became a cult success through video and directors cuts etc. etc. BR2049 took $250M on a $180M budget which in terms of ROI meant it outperformed the original (not by huge amount). But knowing what the commercial success of the original was why would anybody expect BR2049 to turn over half a billion? BR2049 was a flop because it didn't meet certain financial expectations but if those expectations are wrong then is it really a flop?

'....won't need to see it again once you seen it'.
neatly describing about 99.99% of all movies  ;D

So back to JL, the critics writing articles about it being a flop are being disingenuous. On one hand they predict this huge opening weekend, while at the same time saying the film is terrible and airing all the dirty laundry about reshoots and internal politics. Those negative reviews will have effected the box office (as will the previous films) and as a result the opening weekend wasn't fantastic. Now the 'flop' articles are using that lower than expected box office as proof\justification for the negative reviews. But if they are such experts then their opening weekend predictions should have been much closer to what happened, and that they were wrong doesn't give me more confidence in their ability to accurately review and critique the content.

Offline wander

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3553 on: Yesterday at 01:57:24 PM »
So basically you're saying it's not going to do well because it's not the darling of the film critic world, aka a Marvel movie.

Btw mia, that snark isn't directed at you, rather how film is working atm. I've been finding the Marvel films to be really boring and safe recently, super forgettable and yet they keep getting those 90%+ reviews and raking the cash in. So Kevin Fiege can make roughly the same movie yet again though swap the characters and setting to something new and think noone's realised yet.

And yet, people are eating them up.

Not the thread for it, though I could say exactly the same for the new Star Wars annual movies that'll go on to the heat death of the universe now.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3554 on: Yesterday at 02:46:18 PM »
So basically you're saying it's not going to do well because it's not the darling of the film critic world, aka a Marvel movie.
Oh dear Lord no. There are things wrong with all of the DCEU movies; Wonder Woman had a weak third act, Superman v Zod in MoS was an audio\visual assault that gave me a headache etc. However they are nowhere near as bad as the critics would make out. There is also the internal politics and how they are reported, because DCEU is having a rougher time all the changes are given an extra ration of DOOM, Synder leaving JL DOOOM!!!! Afleck's film that wasn't part of the original line up in doubt DOOOOM!!!! etc. But Edgar Wright leaving Ant-Man was little more than a road bump to the MCU juggernaut. Yes, DC have brought some of that press on themselves but I think there's also a certain perverse delight from certain quarters in seeing them fail. The DCEU management hasn't made life easy for itself and they have to take the blame for that. The timing of JL's release sucks, there are three blockbuster films released over four weeks and people only have so much money; if people want to see all three but can only afford to see one I'm guessing most would pick Last Jedi, if they can afford two then Thor is going to win out because the MCU has a better track record it's more of a known quantity.

And this is tongue in cheek but despite all the bad press the DCEU gets, it's notched up an Oscar while the MCU has cancelled several projects. Agent Carter was cancelled after 2 seasons which is a failure, the Inhumans movie was cancelled but they got their PR department to spin than one as a sideways move to TV instead of a cancelation, and nobody expects the Inhumans TV show to make a return but because it was promoted as a mini-series it can be spun not as a cancelation but as a natural end to the story, they never planned for a second season. So three failed projects and one of them failed twice.

Btw mia, that snark isn't directed at you, rather how film is working atm. I've been finding the Marvel films to be really boring and safe recently, super forgettable and yet they keep getting those 90%+ reviews and raking the cash in. So Kevin Fiege can make roughly the same movie yet again though swap the characters and setting to something new and think noone's realised yet.
I've had the same conversation with someone else recently. The beginning of Raganok when Thor is on the chain, you could have replaced Thor with Iron Man, Star Lord or Ant-man kept the dialogue the same and I doubt many people would have noticed.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3555 on: Yesterday at 04:29:08 PM »
Anyway on a lighter note, there goes 4 hours of Monday\Tuesday

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3556 on: Yesterday at 05:32:20 PM »
Sounds like DC's best bet right now would be to scrap everything they've done with the DCEU so far and reboot it with the proposed Flashpoint movie; X-Men Days of Future Past did it, so why not? Then you'd have a much less crappy foundation to build on for the standalone characters who haven't had their movies yet, and potentially give a more plausible entry point for characters we haven't seen yet to come onto the scene sooner (Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern). Both Justice League: War and The Flashpoint Paradox were fucking AMAZING animated movies, surely making those into live-action adaptations can't be that taxing if the script is the most vital part. Plus that could excuse there being different actors if they wanted to recast.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3557 on: Yesterday at 05:59:12 PM »
After personally watching Thor Ragnorak and Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 this year. I do have to agree that the Marvel movies are beginning to rely more on comedy. This will probably not be the case with Infinity Wars since its being written by the Russos and this is part 1 of the endgame these movies have been building up.

This could work in DC's favor actually, if the Marvel movies start to rely more and more on jokes and humor then the more serious story lines with subtle jokes would be a nice alternative in comparison. That said Snyder would need to go, he's not Christopher Nolan and he's not either of the Russo Brothers. Three big movies that were meant to serve as the backbone of this cinematic universe have failed under his helm as Director with another were he was just producer (Suicide Squad). The idea of being an alternative to Marvel is good, but the execution could have been a lot better.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3558 on: Yesterday at 06:15:41 PM »
The idea of being an alternative to Marvel is good, but the execution could have been a lot better.

That's really the best way to put it, I couldn't have said it better. Marvel being the lighter feel-good movies with groundbreaking action and more likeable characters and DC the darker, thought-provoking existential stories and character studies. So far only Batman Begins and The Dark Knight have been able to live up to that (I haven't seen Wonder Woman yet) so the DCEU needs to get on that or start from scratch. I doubt Aquaman is where they're going to start getting things going in the right direction, if they decide to keep going with their diminishing returns before taking a break and re-thinking things. This is really not the universe for making the Batgirl, Harley Quinn, Birds of Prey, etc., movies.