M&M 2e - Interest Check (NC)

[Callie Del Noire]

no idea what mutants and masterminds is, lol

http://mutantsandmasterminds.com/

[Katina Tarask]

I would like to point out that 'auto hit' abilities are often times very weak. And also, if you look at a 'mentalist' spread sheet you're going to notice a small flaw with the entire powerset of hers. It's very small, but you'll find it.

Oh good God, I just had a long, drawn-out headache with the, "There is a problem but I'm not going to be more specific than that," thing.  If there's an issue, just say what it is.

Your complications are, for the most part; worthy of being Drawbacks. You could take 6 points for the Obsessions and put them elsewhere. Since apparently they're very, very up there. Each is a 3 point worthy item.

Complications are infinitely more interesting.  And more useful.  M&M is all about the hero point economy, and anything that gets that engine going is good.  I don't look for complications that could be drawbacks instead; I look for drawbacks that could be complications instead.  Particularly since complications coming up get rewarded and drawbacks coming up get punished.

Mutants and Masterminds.. the 2nd edition is regarded by most as the best version.

Where are you getting that from? o.O

I like a lot of the changes 3e/DCA have done, and I haven't heard much but positive things about it, either.

[Ixy]

god. damn. there's a lot of steps in making a character.  I am... er... making this a project for tonight over a bottle of merlot.

[Katina Tarask]

god. damn. there's a lot of steps in making a character.  I am... er... making this a project for tonight over a bottle of merlot.

I can wire you an Excel sheet I use if you think it'll help.  There are a few things it doesn't take into account (mostly powers adding to whatever combat number), but it's pretty good.

[Callie Del Noire]

I like a lot of the changes 3e/DCA have done, and I haven't heard much but positive things about it, either.

I talked to a lot of folks I know who have played it since the first edition came out and the outlook was that the change in mechanics was unneeded, and the requirement for mandatory complications was a bit much to most of us. Not to mention the new attributes aren't needed.

Minor grouses though, and I'm quite happy with all the books I got for 2nd edition so I don't need to start over again.

[TheMinstrelKnight]

Ah, sorry about the 'headache' I caused.  :'( I didn't mean to!

But yeah- just so you know it's the fact that 'auto hitting' also would require a bit of a drawback with it. Since usually it's frowned on to be able to autohit with one or two attacks and defeat an opponent with just those two rolls. Usually- the gaming group I was with had a rather fun mentalist who could send buildings at you.

Such a fun, odd, fight...

The only problem I had seen wasn't a problem but wording. So, nevermind. Dx

[Ixy]

Thanks Katina... I may have the same spreadsheet, but thanks.  :)

[Callie Del Noire]

I use Herolab myself (looking forward to the Mac Native build later this year hopefully!)

[Richardson]

As stated before, I don't have 2e but I do have a fair amount of d20 supplements and experience and wouldn't mind co-GMing if you're still interested in having someone do that.

[Katina Tarask]

I talked to a lot of folks I know who have played it since the first edition came out and the outlook was that the change in mechanics was unneeded, and the requirement for mandatory complications was a bit much to most of us. Not to mention the new attributes aren't needed.

Mandatory complications a bit much?  But... the hero point economy practically revolves around complications, and that's the heart and soul of M&M.

Ah, sorry about the 'headache' I caused.  :'( I didn't mean to!

But yeah- just so you know it's the fact that 'auto hitting' also would require a bit of a drawback with it. Since usually it's frowned on to be able to autohit with one or two attacks and defeat an opponent with just those two rolls. Usually- the gaming group I was with had a rather fun mentalist who could send buildings at you.

You're not the cause of the headache.  That was a train wreck from elsewhere.

And Perception attacks are a long story, but the odds of Sam taking out an enemy in a couple shots aren't much better than anyone else's.  Well, save from Mind Control, but I work under the assumption that Mind Control doesn't work against anyone above minion status until they're beaten the old fashioned way.

[Callie Del Noire]

Mandatory complications a bit much?  But... the hero point economy practically revolves around complications, and that's the heart and soul of M&M.

Well I know that I have several heroes who don't have complications/drawbacks, and I dislike having to make every character I make having mandatory flaws in the mechanics. I think my characters are people and dont' all have to have some cripppling or debilitating point just for more points. One of my favorite characters is a brick, she's bright bubbly and I don't see a need to tack on points to make things up.

<shrug>

It's a personal quirk. Aside from that I didn't think that 2nd edition was 'broke' enough to merit a new system mechanic.

[Katina Tarask]

Well I know that I have several heroes who don't have complications/drawbacks, and I dislike having to make every character I make having mandatory flaws in the mechanics. I think my characters are people and dont' all have to have some cripppling or debilitating point just for more points. One of my favorite characters is a brick, she's bright bubbly and I don't see a need to tack on points to make things up.

"Complications" and "crippling disorders" are two entirely different things.  A complication can be as big or as minor as you please, and come up as rarely or as often as you please (well, in the case of enemies, it's as often as the GM please, but I digress).  They certainly don't make a character less of a person,

For example, being a bit too trusting and averse to killing are perfectly valid complications, and paired with the simple motivation of doing good may not change anything at all about your brick.  How often are those an issue?  Other than being trusting, probably not often in most four-color games.  As for trusting, that's a problem precisely as often as you please, in precisely the manner in which you please.  The more it comes up, the more hero points you get, but you're still in control.  None of those complications are crippling or imposing, but they're still complications.

[Callie Del Noire]

Well be that as it may, M&M 2e is my favored system and I hope we didn't scare our GM away. :D

I really would love to play Reon sometime. Eventually.

Ever.

[TheMinstrelKnight]

I figured how to get my Equipment... Even without my Equipment Feat.

Huzzah.

[Callie Del Noire]

I figured how to get my Equipment... Even without my Equipment Feat.

Huzzah.

So you WILL be running around with artillery?

[Maegan]

Well be that as it may, M&M 2e is my favored system and I hope we didn't scare our GM away. :D

I really would love to play Reon sometime. Eventually.

Ever.

I'm still around, just haven't had a chance to go over the character sheets and didn't have anything to add to the conversation.

[Ixy]

So many choices, too. Pitching a speedster by tomorrow.

[TheMinstrelKnight]

Would anyone like the character sheet spread I use in Excel? I can link it to you and it's a fairly good usable spread sheet. :>

[Callie Del Noire]

Would anyone like the character sheet spread I use in Excel? I can link it to you and it's a fairly good usable spread sheet. :>

I use Herolab.

[Ixy]

Looking back, I think I was making this process more complicated than it needed to be.  However, I'm not entirely sure I did everything correctly and, once I have a little more spare time, I will re-process the character to fine-tune it.  Right now, it's out of the rough draft stage and up for revision.  Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
"Swift" (Katie Hill) <a href=http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=273390>(link to mythweavers)</a>

Age: 19      Ht: 5'6      Wt: 120       
Meas: 34-25-36     
Hair: Violet/Blonde (dyed)     
Skin: Light tan

Toughness	7
Fortitude	8
Reflex	8
Will	5
Defense	6
Initiative	26
Attack	6

Hero Points: 1

Abilities:
STR 12
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 8

Skills:

Acrobatics	2	(+4)
Bluff	0	(-1)
Climb	2	(+2)
Computers	1	(+1)
Concentration	0	(+0)
Craft*	0	(+0)
Diplomacy	0	-1
Disable Device	1	(+1)
Disguise	0	(-1)
Drive	1	+3
Escape Artist	1	(+3)
Gather Info	0	(-1)
Handle Animal	0	-1
Intimidate	0	-1
Investigate	3	+3
Knowledge: History	2	(+2)
Language	1	Spanish
Medicine	0	(+0)
Notice	1	(+1)
Perform	0	(-1)
Pilot	0	(+2)
Profession	0	(+0)
Ride	0	(+2)
Search	3	(+3)
Sense Motive	0	(+0)
Sleight of Hand	0	(+2)
Stealth	0	(+2)
Survival	0	(+0)
Swim	1	(+1)

Powers

Name	Rank	Action	Range	Duration
Strike	6	Standard	Touch	Instant
-Array: Trip	6	Standard	Touch	Instant
-Array: Stun	6	Standard	Touch	Instant
Regeneration	6	Reaction	Personal	Permanent
Super Speed	6	Move	Personal	Sustained
-Array: Deflect	6	Defense	Touch	Instant
-Array: Leaping	6	Move	Personal	Instant

Feats

Name	Description
Power Feat: Persistent Regeneration	Can heal abnormal damage types.
Power Feat: Rapid Fire (Super Speed)	Can can throw small objects, damage=power rank+Autofire
Power Feat: Rapid Attack	melee attack vs ANY opponents (power rank × 5 ft) radius
Attractive	+2Benefit to Bluff and Diplomacy

[Katina Tarask]

I plugged Swift into my spreadsheet and here's what I found.

Toughness is also capped at power level, not power level plus five.

Climb is off.  If you invested two ranks and have +1 strength, that should be +3.

You get four skill ranks for one power point.  I count 19 skill ranks, so you have a floating rank.

Powers are where it gets real sticks.  Short version?  You're, like, twenty-five points over.

First, the strike array.  The most expensive power is the base, and all alternate powers are an extra point.  Stun costs two points per rank, so Stun 6 costs 12 points, and two alternate powers would bring that array up to 14 points.

Super-Speed is the big one; that costs five points per rank.  So rank six Super-Speed costs thirty poins, and adding in two alternate powers makes thirty-two.

Regeneration is... more complicated than just "rank X."  You kinda buy from a menu.  If you have Ultimate Power, look at that, since it explains regeneration more clearly, but in short?  You need to allocate those ranks of regeneration.  Regeneration can either give you a bonus to constitution checks made to recover (those're DC10), or it can shorten the rest time required to make a recovery check.  With 6 ranks of regeneration, you could make recovery checks against bruises and injuries with a full round action resting and get a +1 bonus to your recovery check on top of your constitution bonus.  (Also, unless you're gonna splurge and go all the way to no-rest regeneration, which you probably can't afford, it may be better-suited as an alternate effect on super-speed, since you need to rest to use it.)

Power feats are traditionally treated as a part of the powers themselves, not independent feats.

Attractive is +4 Diplomacy/Bluff with appropriate targets.

Now, then.  Advice!

You need to trim some stuff down since, like I said, you're currently twenty-five points over.  For starters, not all your defense needs to come from straight-up base defense.  You can drop some base defense for Dodge Focus, which is cheaper.  You're in bad shape if you're ever caught by surprise, but that's a standard speedster weakness.

Also, the game allows trade-offs between attack and effect rank, as well as defense versus toughness.  As a style thing, speedsters tend to be dodgy and thus have more defense (likely mostly from Dodge Focus) than attack.  Even going to something like 2 base defense, Dodge Focus 8 (for a total of 10, with 1 flat-footed), and only your base 2 Toughness from constitution isn't unreasonable.

However, as a point-saving thing, speedsters also usually have low-damage powers that are more accurate.  If you instead had, say, +8 attack with rank 4 damage powers, or even +10 attack with rank 2 damage powers (including Super-Speed, which would still be enough to keep Deflect 6 and Leaping 6 as alternate effects).  With Super-Speed and Stun dropped down to 2, you're most of the way there, and you can buy back your land speed with a few ranks of the regular 1pp/rank Speed power outside the array.

[Ixy]

yeah, I'll get back to you on that if this game actually starts.

[Maegan]

I'm still planning to start it, have just been brushing up on the rules and waiting to see if there was anymore interest.  I will probably put up a character sheet thread tonight (and maybe an IC intro thread), and start checking everyone's math once characters are posted in it.

[Ixy]

Regarding the character: It's no surprise that things are out of balance; the spreadsheet was pretty lame.  With caps: still need tweaking, sure.  Abilities: probably my translating from spreadsheet by hand, will fix.  Stun: probably just my overlooking something, easy enough to remove or fix.  Regeneration: duh, was just trying to lock down the basics and the feat.  Re: damage vs. dodge: it's all velocity, so I see no reason to have both interlaced. 

It's a nooby superhero mock-up, sure.  Thanks for pointing that out publicly.  As for the character powers, yeah, I will level it out; nooby superheroes will have feats missing, lower caps, etc.  But I think at least the fundamentals are there and fixable, so at least Maegan has a good idea what role I'd be filling (if accepted as a player).

[Maegan]

The OOC thread is here: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=97425.0
The character sheet thread is here: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=97426.0

I'm not thrilled with the name :P and may change it, but it is all I have been able to come up with so far. 

Please post your character sheets in that thread and I will start going over them.  I will try to post an introduction IC thread in a day or two.