If it were legal, how much would it take to buy your vote?

Started by Jude, April 17, 2011, 10:20:37 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jude

Upon signing the contract you would be rewarded with this sum of money and then you would lose your right to vote.  Give two answers for two different conditions.  One where only you can sell your votes but the rest of the world cannot and another where every citizen of your country can sell their voting rights (in this situation you'd be able to buy other people's voting rights to replenish yours if you wish and if you could afford it).

In a world where everyone can:  I'd sell it for more than market value by exploiting an election where people feel very strongly about something, then buy another person's vote later.  Playing the voting stock market, aww yeaaah~

In a world where only I can:  probably not much.  Maybe 10k?

Noelle

100k at the lowest; enough to settle my debts and have enough leftover to invest and get my life on track.

I think I'd charge about the same either way, give or take some, but in the latter case where you can buy and sell votes, it kind of starts to jack with the price. If everyone is selling their vote, then either everyone is going to try and demand a million dollars with it, or eventually none of their votes will be worth anything at all. In group situations, how can anyone vote be worth more than someone else's if they all have equal standing once they're in the ballot box? There would essentially be fixed prices on everybody's vote, the only way it would go up and down is, as you say, during key elections, and that's as an entire group.

consortium11

#2
I think you'd also have to factor in who's asking to buy my vote.

If it was the party/individual I was going to support anyway then I'd require a certain amount. If it was a party/individual I also agreed with but were less likely to vote for I'd require more. If it was a party I would generally apathetic about... I like some ideas, dislike other on a roughly 50/50 split (in number and importance) I'd require more again and on and on until I'd require an exponential higher amount for a party/individua I completely oppose. It's a case of comparing and contrasting the objective result (who my bought vote would go to) and the subjective (who with free will I'd vote for).

A blind purchasing of a vote would be towards the high end.

Edit: You'd also have to factor in the election itself: I'd demand more for the more "important" elections than for those of lesser import.

Silk

I wouldn't sell, because theres no garuntee they wouldn't try taking the money back once they got in.

Zakharra


Oniya

Quote from: Zakharra on April 19, 2011, 08:44:24 AM
My price would be simple. The candidate's corpse.

I was about to say I'd settle for their soul, but then I realized that's more than a 50/50 chance of giving my vote away.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Sure

The last Presidential election had about 133 million people vote in it (a little less in reality). The total amount of money spent in the 2008 election was 5.8 Billion dollars. Therefore, in a gross oversimplification, your vote is worth a little more than $39.85.

Star Safyre

I'd require enough cash to fully relocate myself and my family to another country.
My heaven is to be with him always.
|/| O/O's / Plots / tumblr / A/A's |/|
And I am a writer, writer of fictions
I am the heart that you call home
And I've written pages upon pages
Trying to rid you from my bones

Noelle

I find it incredibly hard to believe that if someone offered those of you who say you wouldn't a check for, say, $100,000, that you would sniff at them and turn them down on a matter of principle. I've got student loans and I'm just a single, employed graduate living on my own and I know there are quite a few people here who are worse off than I am. It's a hypothetical situation.

Will

100k?  In a heartbeat.  I vote based on weighing my personal interests; a hundred thousand dollars is a pretty heavy personal interest (to put it mildly).  I wouldn't really be "losing my right to vote," I would just be guaranteeing a vote for the individual that offered me most.  In a sense, that's just a more direct version of what already happens.
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

itsbeenfun2000

Quote from: Oniya on April 19, 2011, 09:37:29 AM
I was about to say I'd settle for their soul, but then I realized that's more than a 50/50 chance of giving my vote away.

You are assuming they have a soul

Oniya

No - that's why there's a greater than 50% chance that I'd be giving the vote away (i.e., getting nothing for it, as the politician in question had no soul.)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

grdell

Forty-seven cents.

It's not like it means anything, anyway.
"A million people can call the mountains a fiction, yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them." ~XKCD

My Kinsey Scale rating: 4; and what that means in terms of my gender identity. My pronouns: he/him.

My Ons and Offs, current stories, story ideas, Apologies and Absences - Updated 28 Jan 2024.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: grdell on April 20, 2011, 12:07:39 AM
Forty-seven cents.

It's not like it means anything, anyway.

And that is an attitude we need to fix.

It should count. It should be considered a responsibility and duty, not a privilege. Attitudes like that allow the lobbyists to subvert the system. Tell me there is something you are truly outraged at the way things are going?


MasterMischief

Are we talking about in the US where the populare vote doesn't count anyway?

meikle

Quote from: MasterMischief on April 20, 2011, 07:09:40 PM
Are we talking about in the US where the populare vote doesn't count anyway?

the president isn't the only thing we vote for.

I wonder what the economics of buying a vote look like.  I am not an economist so I can't really comment on that.
Kiss your lover with that filthy mouth, you fuckin' monster.

O and O and Discord
A and A

Jude

I see a lot of people not answering both versions of my question.  I personally feel like it makes a difference whether you're the only one selling or everyone is.  If you're the only one who can, then Democracy won't be subverted since you are a tiny blip compared to the rest of the country.  If everyone is selling, then you can buy other people's votes to replenish yours eventually.  Is the fact that I'm not seeing people discuss these scenarios indicative of people believing that the scenario is irrelevant, thus giving a single answer?

Will

I just don't see a single person's vote being worth enough to bother; if no one else is selling, then buying my vote won't get you anywhere as a candidate.  I can't imagine they'd offer me anything for it.

If everyone else could sell their votes, I think you'd have a situation where only people in certain battlegrounds would really be able to get something for it.  It's just not feasible to buy everyone's vote, or even a majority of people.  I'm not in one of those battlegrounds, as far as I know, so I don't think it would really apply to me.
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Wolfy


Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Will on April 20, 2011, 08:17:37 PM
I just don't see a single person's vote being worth enough to bother; if no one else is selling, then buying my vote won't get you anywhere as a candidate.  I can't imagine they'd offer me anything for it.

If everyone else could sell their votes, I think you'd have a situation where only people in certain battlegrounds would really be able to get something for it.  It's just not feasible to buy everyone's vote, or even a majority of people.  I'm not in one of those battlegrounds, as far as I know, so I don't think it would really apply to me.

And that.. is where democracy in America has failed.

Apathy has killed the American Dream.

Wolfy

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on April 21, 2011, 03:32:40 PM
And that.. is where democracy in America has failed.

Apathy has killed the American Dream.

It's called a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. :/

The American Dream has been a near impossibility since it was created.

It's also funny how only people not living in America believe in it. :p

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Wolfy on April 21, 2011, 04:02:00 PM
It's called a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. :/

The American Dream has been a near impossibility since it was created.

It's also funny how only people not living in America believe in it. :p

I get tired of folks screaming that 'my vote' doesn't count. That is bull.

I think that the last three elections have shown that votes DO count. Florida was a mire of contested districts for two of them. The single best thing (pro or con) that the last election did was that more people got involved. I consider that the greatest gift that President Obama gave us. He made people get off their ass and participate.

We just need to get more people to do that.. not less.

Noelle

Consider your vote like a singular person yelling outside the White House. One person yelling isn't going to be heard inside the Oval Office, is it? Add one other person and it's a little louder, but not quite enough to be heard. Keep adding individuals -- single people who only count for 1 -- and eventually there are enough of you to not only be heard inside the Oval Office, but probably get your own spot on the news, too :P

Point is, apathy towards voting is a luxury, and a pretty useless one, at that. The only reason you can slack off and not care is because enough other people do it for you that it only just seems like your single contribution is devalued. If enough other people stop voting, then guess what? The proverbial price of your vote goes up immensely, but that also means that it's harder to bring about change if the "wrong" people continue to vote while others sit around and complain about it. If only rich people vote, rich people are probably going to vote in people that play to their interests. If evil socialist communist terrorist hippie dictator warrior princesses vote, you can imagine who they'll put in that plays to their interests. That's been a Democratic (the party) issue in years past, since their demographics (especially young people) tend not to care as much as the older generation (a Republican demographic).

Callie Del Noire

My rule in the work center was if you didn't vote.. you couldn't complain.

Cut down a lot of pissing and moaning in the shop and made me very very depressed.

Oniya

Here's the way I see it:  Anyone buying my right to vote (if I'm the only one) is going to have to make it worth my while - not just for now, but in perpetuity.  I would need something very valuable in return.  Hence the 'soul' comment.  (If I have the candidate's soul, presumably I have a bit of influence, yes?  Assuming that they have one.)

Setting up a 'vote economy', where votes can be bought and traded and sold:  I just don't see how it would be feasible for a candidate to purchase enough votes to make a difference.  It's much more cost-effective to gain the votes by other means.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

MasterMischief

Quote from: Oniya on April 21, 2011, 05:46:45 PM
Setting up a 'vote economy', where votes can be bought and traded and sold:  I just don't see how it would be feasible for a candidate to purchase enough votes to make a difference.  It's much more cost-effective to gain the votes by other means.

Like lobbies?

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Oniya on April 21, 2011, 05:46:45 PM
Here's the way I see it:  Anyone buying my right to vote (if I'm the only one) is going to have to make it worth my while - not just for now, but in perpetuity.  I would need something very valuable in return.  Hence the 'soul' comment.  (If I have the candidate's soul, presumably I have a bit of influence, yes?  Assuming that they have one.)

Setting up a 'vote economy', where votes can be bought and traded and sold:  I just don't see how it would be feasible for a candidate to purchase enough votes to make a difference.  It's much more cost-effective to gain the votes by other means.

Actually it was sorta done.. a lot of big cities did that in the 1800s and beyond.. Tammany Hall (of Boss Tweed fame) got a lot of their strength and influence from working blocks of votes.. they did favors for folks in exchange for voting as they wanted. And they weren't the only ones.

Denivar

Quote from: Jude on April 17, 2011, 10:20:37 PM
where every citizen of your country can sell their voting rights

I think an interesting (and somewhat cynical) question is, in such a country, what would the market price of a vote settle at? My prediction is not very much, perhaps a few hundred dollars for one to permanently forgo their right to vote.

How much would it take for me personally? I'm ashamed to admit, probably only a few thousand dollars. :-/
"If you go to see the woman, do not forget the whip." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Ons and Offs -- Roleplay Ideas -- Apologies, Absences, Excuses, that sort of thing

Oniya

Quote from: KneelToTheWhip on April 22, 2011, 11:18:45 PM
I think an interesting (and somewhat cynical) question is, in such a country, what would the market price of a vote settle at? My prediction is not very much, perhaps a few hundred dollars for one to permanently forgo their right to vote.

How much would it take for me personally? I'm ashamed to admit, probably only a few thousand dollars. :-/

You do need to consider that in the country format, it's possible to re-purchase your right to vote, just by finding someone willing to sell theirs.  In other words, it's not a permanent loss.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Shadax

I think with both situations - only me selling or everyone selling - I would not sell my vote. For anything. However, if everyone were selling, I would start to buy votes. First from people who don't care so I don't have to pay much, then I would work my way up the ladder of voting power until people started to pay me to swing my massive number of votes their way (I would only vote for things I believed in anyway, but the cash is nice regardless.). Then I just keep buying more and more so I can huge power to finally get some decent changes made. I like that plan...
"The level of subtlety in their relationship is comparable to the level of subtlety possessed by a herd of rainbow unicorns."

Solstice

Only me selling:
An amount high enough that it does not feel insulting. I might get more use out of $0.95 (hey, that's an apple at the supermarket) than my one vote, but frankly the offer's a bit offensive. $50 would probably do, that's gas for a month.

Everyone selling:
Mmm, depends. Ignoring the option of, say, moving to a swing state, and selling it before a major election... eh... Several thousand. Probably nobody would buy at that price, but, eh, whatever.

Though I must say, the latter situation sort of sounds like a libertarian dream. But, maybe that's just my cynicism talking.
Apoloies & Absences - Updated 11/16/2014 - Around and available? Hopefully?