Congratulations to Maine, Washington and Colorado

[Tamhansen]

Next to my congratulations to Brother Barrack Hussein Obama for getting four more years at 1600, I'd especially like to congratulate the inhabitants of Colorado and Washington for being the first to legalize Marihuanna. If they pass federal scrutiny they'll be the first place in the world with fully legalized weed.

Also congratulations to the states of Maine, and again Washington (Go washington) for legalizing same sex marriage. The first states to do it by popular vote. I also hope Maryland can be added to this list today

[Miss Lilly]

Is completely legalising marijuana really something worth congratulating?

[Vekseid]

Given what's going on in Mexico, yes.

[Miss Lilly]

What's going on in Mexico?

[Vekseid]

An estimated 30% of Mexican drug cartel funding comes solely from US usage of marijuana.

The report in Spanish is here,
http://imco.org.mx/images/pdf/reporte-tecnico-legalizacion-marihuana.pdf

It's actually on Wikipedia as an actual war. Note the death total for 2012 was from early May.

Four years ago, there were rumors about Mexico becoming a failed state. With its economy booming again, that looks to be hopefully less of a concern - but the situation in Mexico is less than pleasant, regardless.

There were even reports of cartels sending military units into the United States. Talk about ballsy.

[Miss Lilly]

Hm.  Interesting read.

So...legalisation will mean regulation?

[Rozel]

May as well make some taxes off of it...

[Vekseid]

I tend to hate sales/transactional taxes, personally, outside of generally small, flat tariffs to promote local stability. I used to support sin taxes more but lately have been a bit ambivalent on them.

But legalizing a drug nearly half the country admits to using is a more sane option than essentially driving the funding of warlords.

[LunarSage]

I'm not someone who uses pot myself, but I'm very proud of my home state (Washington) right now.

[Rozel]

If they end up going the regulation route, which lets face it, the tax potential is already set up because of the medical aspect of it already being regulated to an extent. (my mother had a greencard (Wash state) during the last two years of her life fighting cancer.) It just seems to go hand in hand. It's big business, but it has been a hush hush business.. which isn't so hush hush to anyone other than law enforcement and even then that is being liberal in the statement.

I can totally see governments making monies easily off of this. I can comfortably say that I have never really been a supporter of it in a recreational sense, but I also think that what people do with their own lives is their own business. May as well capitalize on it, especially in an economy such as we are faced with. (Speaking from an American in Canada) At this stage, I think governments have to tap into things they have never done so in the past... as their people are drying up and are tapped out financially. Hell.. it can even create jobs if we get creative enough. lol

[Avis habilis]

Ya damn right we lead! So come on up to Maine to get hitched, my gay fellow Americans. We'll make you welcome.

Well, actually we'll bitch & moan about out-of-staters clogging up traffic, 'cause we've only got like four roads, but Mount Desert Island is a fine place for a honeymoon.

[RubySlippers]

Is completely legalising marijuana really something worth congratulating?

They did not the state would make it legal to have it for any reason the Feds won't but its likely true enforcing the law in said states would be pretty much mute for anyone but major trafficking of the drug, a small plant at home is not likely to be an issue. Its simple it would cost a lot to police it for the small impact of what even some Feds call a minor problem.

[Oniya]

Regulation will also make it more problematic for the stuff with the crazy additives to get in - the same way that regulating alcohol made things like methanol poisoning far more rare.  Seriously, if you can buy your joints legally, why go to the guy that 'dusts' it, unless you're really after the PCP in the first place?

[Tamhansen]

Wot Oniya said.

Marijuana has been regulated in the Netherlands for some forty years now. Independent studies have proven the weed available in our coffeeshops to be much safer, than what is sold in other countries.

Plus next to the taxes that could be made, imagine what a boost this will mean to the US economy. Sales figures for ben and jerry, and little debbie will skyrocket

[LunarSage]

Plus next to the taxes that could be made, imagine what a boost this will mean to the US economy. Sales figures for ben and jerry, and little debbie will skyrocket

*rimshot*  :P

[Avis habilis]

Plus next to the taxes that could be made, imagine what a boost this will mean to the US economy. Sales figures for ben and jerry, and little debbie will skyrocket

I see a corn chip shortage looming.

On the other hand:

Federal law still says marijuana is an illegal drug, so don't break out the Cheetos or gold fish too quickly.

[Moraline]

This conversation has taken a turn for pure win.


I'd like some corn chips and a coke please. I've totally got the munchies right now.

[Stattick]

Regulation will also make it more problematic for the stuff with the crazy additives to get in - the same way that regulating alcohol made things like methanol poisoning far more rare.  Seriously, if you can buy your joints legally, why go to the guy that 'dusts' it, unless you're really after the PCP in the first place?

Hey.... PCP cost money. You want PCP in your joint, you're gonna have to pay extra for that. It's like the difference between a hotdog and a chili dog. The chili's extra, and it costs more to get some on your dog.

[Oniya]

But PCP is still illegal, which means that the choice is between 'cheap and legal' and 'possibly more expensive, and illegal'.  One option, you run the risk of getting arrested.  The other option, you have more money left over.

How much were those Cheetos again?

[LunarSage]

Chester sure makes Cheetos look like a controlled substance.

Don't get me started on Coco Puffs. 

Freaking addicts.

[Oniya]

Fruity Pebbles leads to acts of burglary, or theft by deception.  *nods*

[LunarSage]

Fred was asking for it though.  He should have shared his freaking cereal with his best friend.  Sheesh, it took Santa to guilt him into sharing.  >.<

Don't forget that only criminals eat Cookie Crisp.  *nodnod*

[Oniya]

Don't forget the Trix rabbit!

[desert ashes]

Just want to say I'm a very happy Washingtonian right now! 

[Avis habilis]

Not too happy, hopefully. *points surreptitiously* Emember-ray the EA-Day!

[Rozel]

Lmao. This thread really made my day. lol

[Secretwriter]

I am one who has indulged in the delights of smoking pot. It affects everyone differently and while it isn't addictive itself, the feeling of being high can be, just as any other feeling can be. An orgasm, feeling safe, feeling adrenaline...

The only way that I can explain my point of view on legalizing weed is this:

When I turned 21, it wasn't all that fun to buy beer anymore. I could, any time I wanted, just go and buy it. I didn't have to smuggle it, I didn't have to pray that I didn't get pulled over with booze in my trunk. It was fun sneaking around to do it. 

Same with weed. The thrill in it for me is the sneaky part. A lot of people will likely stop smoking weed when the thrill is gone. It will become more regulated.

But, in all honesty, people with illnesses and pain... they could use weed instead of dangerously addicting narcotics to ease their pain. Get a little buzz and chill out versus being too zonked to operate and having addictions long after their pain has healed from an injury. Just an example, if not a rather rambling one.

[Chris Brady]

Living in a rooming house full of pot addicts and general smokers, I can tell you, whether or not it gets legalized, it will change nothing.  People will still do the stupid shit they've always been doing.

I have no problems with people who smoke in moderation.  Problem is...  Addicts are not known for 'moderation'.

[Stattick]

Legalize it already. Comon... we've been working at this for fifty friggen years.

And let me tell you something. It's no fun living next to an addict. But if I had to, I'd MUCH rather live next to a pothead then an alcoholic. Alcoholics get violent. Pothead just wanna eat twinkies and watch cartoons.

[Vanity Evolved]

I was quite pleased to see the election results, even as a Brit! It was scary how much support Romney got, but to hear the news about pot and gay marriage was a breath of fresh air (or in the case of the former, a breath of fresh smoke!)

I've never found any interest in weed, but I've always found the political controversy surrounding it ridiculous; something on par with, and better in some instances, tobacco and alcohol which has remained illegal just to throw some more people into the privatized prison system. An entire system built around an intoxicant which, to me, has -far- more press than it deserves. Good to see people are finally dispensing with the non-sense of spending hundreds of thousands of millions of tax payer money on cracking down on a plant a bunch of kids do in their dorms rather than doing their homework.

As for gay marriage, well, what else can I say? Congrats to the LGBT of Maine and Washington!

[Skynet]

I offer my congratulations as well.  Hopefully marijuana gets legalized in more states so we'd stop throwing pot-smokers in prison for years.  Such arrests make up a big chunk of the US prison population, and it's sickening.

I'm also happy that Washington, Maine, and now Maryland legalized gay marriage!  With all the hate and extremism in the world, we can certainly do with more love!

[SinXAzgard21]

Living in a rooming house full of pot addicts and general smokers, I can tell you, whether or not it gets legalized, it will change nothing.  People will still do the stupid shit they've always been doing.

I have no problems with people who smoke in moderation.  Problem is...  Addicts are not known for 'moderation'.

Well yeah cigarettes are addictive and people I know smoke like 4 packs a day... Pot...  Never heard of someone addicted to it...  Unless the shit is laced.

[Miss Lilly]

Pot is addictive. No one I know who smokes pot ISN'T addicted to it.

[Vekseid]

Are they ruining any lives besides their own?

[Miss Lilly]

There is evidence that after prolonged use cannabis is addictive. People who use cannabis regularly can develop dependence and tolerance to it, which means they need to take larger amounts of cannabis to get the same effect.

Dependence on cannabis can be psychological, physical, or both. People who are dependent on cannabis find that using the drug becomes far more important than other activities in their life. They crave the drug and find it very difficult to stop using it. People who are psychologically dependent on cannabis may find they feel an urge to use it when they are in specific surroundings or socialising with friends. Physical dependence occurs when a person’s body adapts to cannabis and gets used to functioning with the cannabis present.

source: http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/drug-facts/cannabis?gclid=CNfYkZqEv7MCFcZbpQodPykAGw

Veks....possibly, yes. The effects of pot addiction on an addicts family can be profound.  But my point is that it IS addictive, and anyone who dismisses it as otherwise is in denial.

[Vekseid]

I'm not disputing mild addictive effects like that - gaming addiction has similar effects on lives and families - but it does not spread beyond aiding and abetting a lapse in personal responsibility.

This is not true for alcoholism (legal) or say, opiate addiction.

[Miss Lilly]

I can see your point there, but often pot addiction and tolerance can lead to abuse of harder substances.  Obviously not in every case, and I'm not in any way making blanket statements.  However, I've experienced this exact scenario in my own family, and have seen how the destructive behaviours that started with pot use first hand.

[Vekseid]

When I hear of pot being a gateway drug is usually when some asshat laced a friend's joint. Friend of mine. Not friend of theirs.

Regulation will help that.



Ultimately, though, personal responsibility is just one of those things that needs to be learned. Preferably at a young age. There are countless behaviors, attitudes, and actions that can destroy a life. Putting a barrier in front is not necessarily the best solution, and it's absolutely crazy doing it with a plant that can be grown nearly anywhere on the planet.

[Miss Lilly]

Oh, I'm not arguing against legalisation.  I actually support it.  I think the minute you make something forbidden, it becomes so much more desirable, especially for youths.  However, I have a problem with the legalisation if there is no regulation that goes along with it.  Assign the same laws to the production and sale of pot as those related to tobacco, and I'm sold.

That still doesn't make pot non-addictive, though.

[Vanity Evolved]

Oh, I'm not arguing against legalisation.  I actually support it.  I think the minute you make something forbidden, it becomes so much more desirable, especially for youths.  However, I have a problem with the legalisation if there is no regulation that goes along with it.  Assign the same laws to the production and sale of pot as those related to tobacco, and I'm sold.

That still doesn't make pot non-addictive, though.

It also doesn't change the fact that alcohol and tobacco - tobacco being hugely addictive and proven to be harmful to health directly - are allowed. For me, it's been 'it's all legal or none of it is'. If I'm allowed to pay money to destroy my body over fifteen years with these two substances, why is it wrong of me to destroy my body with this other substance over fifteen years?

[LunarSage]

My only problem with hardcore stoners is they often don't care about anything but how they're going to get high a given day and many of them are quite happy to rip off their friends and family to get more of it.

[Tamhansen]

My only problem with hardcore stoners is they often don't care about anything but how they're going to get high a given day and many of them are quite happy to rip off their friends and family to get more of it.

That has nothing to do with weed. People who do that would do the same if they were addicted to say alcohol or online poker.

As for weed being physically addictive, I do not deny there can be a physical dependence, however there is no addictant present in Cannabis sativa. An addictant being a substance whose primary goal is to make the body crave more of the substance. For example nicotine in sigarettes, Diaphorm in heroine or benzodiazepines in over the counter medications like diazepam or prozac. Basically, weed is healthier, less addictive and in quite a few cases more effective than what the shrinks are peddling.

[Skynet]

There are problems with marijuana, like any other drug.  But it's less dangerous than cigarettes and alcohol, despite being illegal in many places.

The real reason that marijuana's still illegal in many areas is because it still has a historical negative stigma attached to it, the idea people who use it are likely to be social malcontents.

[Oniya]

Hey, maybe now that the plant is no longer illegal to grow, perhaps hemp fiber can be produced more economically.

[LunarSage]

That has nothing to do with weed. People who do that would do the same if they were addicted to say alcohol or online poker.

Well I just plain disagree with that.

But that's ok.

[Lux12]

Hm.  Interesting read.

So...legalisation will mean regulation?

Exactly.If you take away their cash crop their power will diminish and if properly distributed, regulated, and sold it could mean a great boost for the economy.

[SinXAzgard21]

My only problem with hardcore stoners is they often don't care about anything but how they're going to get high a given day and many of them are quite happy to rip off their friends and family to get more of it.

Most hardcore stoners grow their own shit... So they can get their friends ripped not rip them off.  At least those I know.

[TaintedAndDelish]

If you look at alcohol, there are those who can drink in moderation, and those who cannot. I think we'll see the same pattern here.  As for pot being a gateway drug, again, it really depends a lot on the person. I don't think there's any substance in pot that "makes you try blow" or "makes you try crack" ... that would be one hell of an amazing compound.  O.o

So out of curiosity... I think I read that you can possess up to an ounce legally(forgot which state)? What about stores? Can they legally stock garbage bags full and carry those garbage bags full of weed from place to place if they say that they are just making a delivery between stores or store/warehouse?

[Chris Brady]

Are they ruining any lives besides their own?

Yes.  Friends, family who have to deal with an unmotivated (to use a personal example) youth who sits at home smoking pot, bumming money for his next high, and leeching off welfare.  He has no job, and no motivation to go to school.  Not to mention that a lot of local pot smokers drive high.  In their CAR.  Often to get something to satiate the munches.  I've nearly been hit by one, luckily a cop was near by and hauled him over after scaring me literally stiff (back spasmed, and I locked up, not fun) and arrested him for dangerous driving under impairment.  Not sure why I haven't been contacted over that yet...  But yes, pot CAN harm others.

[TaintedAndDelish]

Yes.  Friends, family who have to deal with an unmotivated (to use a personal example) youth who sits at home smoking pot, bumming money for his next high, and leeching off welfare.  He has no job, and no motivation to go to school.  Not to mention that a lot of local pot smokers drive high.  In their CAR.  Often to get something to satiate the munches.  I've nearly been hit by one, luckily a cop was near by and hauled him over after scaring me literally stiff (back spasmed, and I locked up, not fun) and arrested him for dangerous driving under impairment.  Not sure why I haven't been contacted over that yet...  But yes, pot CAN harm others.

Is this any different from alcohol? Some excessive drinkers act just as you described?

[Chris Brady]

Is this any different from alcohol? Some excessive drinkers act just as you described?

Yes, they can, but it generally takes a lot less marijuana than it does alcohol.  And the substance itself isn't addictive, but the psychological effect it produces is.

[Skynet]

Another good reason to support marijuana:  I've heard of "angry drunks," but never "angry potheads."

[Vekseid]

Or even dealing with people who haven't had their nicotine/caffeine fix.

[SinXAzgard21]

Yes, they can, but it generally takes a lot less marijuana than it does alcohol.  And the substance itself isn't addictive, but the psychological effect it produces is.

So exactly what are you saying?

[Tamhansen]

Okay. Let's use a real world example. The Netherlands have had decriminalised marijuanna for forty years. Yet we are one of the richest, most productive nations in the world. W're the smaller than Rhode Island, we have piss all industry of our own, yet we are one of the most financially powerful nations in the world. Am I saying pot is the cause of this? Hell no, I have never seen anything supporting this. But readily available pot did not hurt our nations ability to work and prosper in any way. Plus, it's made us quite content.

[Stattick]

There is a growing body of evidence that suggests that marijuana is a lot more addictive than it's given credit for. But it's still not thought to be terribly addictive as these things go. Probably no more addictive than caffeine. There have been studied cases of marijuana withdrawals in the cases of heavy users (withdrawal lasts around 10 days), so the addiction can be physical. But all in all, it's a far easier addiction to break than opiates or alcohol. And although there are social problems linked to pot use, they're typically less bad than those associated with alcohol use. Pot isn't the greatest thing for society, but it certainly doesn't seem to the boogeyman either. I don't have a problem with it being legalized.

[LunarSage]

Is this any different from alcohol? Some excessive drinkers act just as you described?

No, but last I checked, it was illegal to drive while drunk as well.

[Rozel]

I can see your point there, but often pot addiction and tolerance can lead to abuse of harder substances.

I always giggle when I see this stated about mary-jane. Because it can be said about anything. Stress, is a prime example of a gateway to the use of drugs/alcohol. :P

On the topic of DUI, just because it is legalized doesn't mean laws for being under the influence does not apply still. You can get a DUI for over the counter meds the same as with drugs/alcohol.

I don't think anyone is refuting the addictiveness. :P Just the implications past the addictions.

[Miss Lilly]

I only speak to what I've had experience of, Rozel.

[LunarSage]

I only speak to what I've had experience of, Rozel.

As do I. 

I have rarely met a habitual pot user who wasn't an unmotivated leech.  That's the kicker.  Almost every pot user I've ever met hasn't seemed to care about anything in life except how to get high again.  It's sad.

[Miss Lilly]

I've had the same experience, Lunar.

[Vekseid]

As do I. 

I have rarely met a habitual pot user who wasn't an unmotivated leech.  That's the kicker.  Almost every pot user I've ever met hasn't seemed to care about anything in life except how to get high again.  It's sad.

I've met a boatload of very casual users. Many were more motivated than me.

As for the serious ones... I don't think 'pot' was their problem.

[Secretwriter]

My (now technically ex) uncle married my aunt 19 years ago. Last year they divorced. He is the only true pot addict I know. Both high or sober he is a dickhead. He yells and is emotionally abusive. Its worse when he is sober but so far as I know he hasn't ever hurt anyone to get his weed. Never stolen to get it. Just an all around jerk.  There are exceptions to every rule about additction. Someone disagreed about poker addicts stealing to support their habit. I know alcoholics who have stolen to support their habit. I know people who stole for pot money. They were teens and would have stolen to get a frickin candybar that they didn't have to pay for themselves.  Lumping everyone together because of one person's behavior is irresponsible. It truly depends on the individual. Veks is right too - those that are the serious ones have issues bigger than pot.   

[LunarSage]

I've met a boatload of very casual users. Many were more motivated than me.

As for the serious ones... I don't think 'pot' was their problem.

Well I was talking about serious users.

Are you suggesting that pot may attract people with those types of problems?

[Secretwriter]

Any intoxicant will. Not just pot. Whatever people can get their hands on. Huffing, weed, stealing pills to get high...  In worse times of my life that was me. Just as I just described. I didn't think of pot first. Instead I went to chemicals. As for the pills they were a preescription of my moms that I had taken before. Pills scare me.

[LunarSage]

Any intoxicant will. Not just pot. Whatever people can get their hands on. Huffing, weed, stealing pills to get high...  In worse times of my life that was me. Just as I just described. I didn't think of pot first. Instead I went to chemicals. As for the pills they were a preescription of my moms that I had taken before. Pills scare me.

Well if that's the case, it would explain why I've met so many unmotivated borderline criminal types who smoke pot.  *nods*

Not that I've never met those who smoke pot but aren't pillheads or criminals.  They've just been in the minority.

It's difficult for me to understand, since I have never abused any substance in my life.  I had the opportunity to try marijuana when I was younger, but I opted to stay clean.  I don't drink, I don't smoke... I'm a boy scout when it comes to substances. 

[Secretwriter]

It being illegal is part of the draw for the criminal types. They also usually use tobacco and alcohol. And serious pornography. And... Well that list continues. Being depressed and looking for something to take the edge off does not equal an explanation to borderline criminals.  Kind of offended by that, Lunar. Thanks. 

[LunarSage]

Did I equate you to being a borderline criminal?  o.O

Not once.

Did I say I've met many of them in my life?  Yes.

You're kind of putting words in my mouth or at the very least taking offense where none lays.   :-\

[Secretwriter]

No, I misunderstood something and took it the wrong way. I do apologize. 

[LunarSage]

No, I misunderstood something and took it the wrong way. I do apologize.

No worries at all.  :-)

It's all good.

I'm actually all for the legalization.  ;D

[Caela]

As do I. 

I have rarely met a habitual pot user who wasn't an unmotivated leech.  That's the kicker.  Almost every pot user I've ever met hasn't seemed to care about anything in life except how to get high again.  It's sad.

I think this depends on what their motivation in smoking it in the first place is. My brothers used to be stoners and but they worked for their money for their next high. Eventually they realized that working dead-end jobs just to pay for their weed wasn't going to actually get them anywhere and, since they both liked money more than being high, they stopped smoking so much and have been working on bettering themselves.

On the flip side, my Mother actually uses it for pain control. She has rhuematoid arthritis in her hands that is so bad some days that she can't even move her fingers...and she has to work on a computer. The pot helps with the pain and to relax the muscles but she's a responsible type of person to begin with so she almost never actually "stoned". She will smoke enough to be able to function but not so much that she is actually getting high. No doubt she gets a bit of a buzz, hard to avoid, but she's not useless and watching TV and eating Cheetos all day.

I think a lot of it comes down to the type of personality you're dealing with. A responsible person isn't likely to stop being responsible just because they can, legally, have a joint now and then and a addictive personality type will find something to be addicted, legal or not.

I'd rather see pot legalized and treated like alcohol/cigarettes. Grow it, sell it, tax and regulate it.

[Callie Del Noire]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6846855/gay-men-will-marry-your-girlfriends

ZING!

[Caela]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6846855/gay-men-will-marry-your-girlfriends

ZING!

Too damned funny!!!

[Lux12]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6846855/gay-men-will-marry-your-girlfriends

ZING!

That is why I support marriage equality... So my gay friends won't marry all the awesome women and doom the rest of us to a life of being single.

Seriously though, that would be the perfect revenge on their part ,especially if every last one of them fit those stereotypes. What scares me is that I think it would work.

[Caela]

That is why I support marriage equality... So my gay friends won't marry all the awesome women and doom the rest of us to a life of being single.

Seriously though, that would be the perfect revenge on their part ,especially if every last one of them fit those stereotypes. What scares me is that I think it would work.

I think the only thing in that video that wouldn't work, is the sex part. Whether they know our secrets or not, eventually you'd notice that your partner isn't really into it.

Of course you could marry the gay man and have the perfect husband otherwise and then you could both have your boyfriends on the side! :D

[Oniya]

I think the only thing in that video that wouldn't work, is the sex part. Whether they know our secrets or not, eventually you'd notice that your partner isn't really into it.

Of course you could marry the gay man and have the perfect husband otherwise and then you could both have your boyfriends on the side! :D

You could buy each other toys for Christmas!  *flees*

[LunarSage]

You'd be seeing more beards than you would at a Grateful Dead concert and a ZZ Top concert combined.

[Caela]

You could buy each other toys for Christmas!  *flees*

LMAO!!!! You so could!!!

Oh god, the mental images I have in my head now!!!!   >:)

[NotoriusBEN]

The only thing I am concerned with is how this affects the cartels. I would assume not very much since marijuana is still illegal in most other states, but if more legalized it:
I can only imagine that this might be eye opening for them.

Their profits would be sure to drop since people arent buying an illegal product.
Legalized products tend to be prolific enough that it wouldnt be scarce, so there's another price hit.
Also, regulation would mean a clean, safe product for consumption.  (Would you rather buy it from Walgreen's or that shady guy on the corner?)

The cartels would have to become legitimate businesses and conform to American health standards to sell their stuff... and thus be tariffed as well.

Interesting to say the least.

[Serephino]

I definitely think marijuana should be legalized, for safety issues if for nothing else.  I do not smoke it, and after my one experience of a second-hand high, I seriously doubt I ever will.  I was with my cousins and one of them had some, and I was sitting downwind.  The scary part was my other two cousins told her what she had didn't smell right so they didn't want any, and she thought nothing of it.  It was probably laced with something.

Liquor is legal, and people abuse it.  The government did ban it twice, and neither time went over so well.  Right now it's regulated and taxed, though I think the laws here in PA are really restrictive and stupid...   

[Oniya]

Twice?  I was only aware of the one time (I'm thinking on a national level, so if you're talking about 'dry counties', that would explain it.)

[Skynet]

The only thing I am concerned with is how this affects the cartels. I would assume not very much since marijuana is still illegal in most other states, but if more legalized it:
I can only imagine that this might be eye opening for them.

Their profits would be sure to drop since people arent buying an illegal product.
Legalized products tend to be prolific enough that it wouldnt be scarce, so there's another price hit.
Also, regulation would mean a clean, safe product for consumption.  (Would you rather buy it from Walgreen's or that shady guy on the corner?)

The cartels would have to become legitimate businesses and conform to American health standards to sell their stuff... and thus be tariffed as well.

Interesting to say the least.

Well, back in the 20s during Prohibition, the Italian Mafia got an awful lot of money and power from selling illegal alcohol.  When Prohibition was repealed, they were large and widespread enough that they could rely on other ventures (drug-dealing, loan sharking, fraud) to remain prominent.

The cartels aren't going away anytime soon.  Legalization of marijuana will hurt them in the pocket, but it won't be enough to cripple them.

[Lux12]

Some of these laws were actually racist efforts to deter immigration by certain groups based on hurtful stereotypes. As a result, it created the same sort of situation as the prohibition of alcohol. Don't believe it? Look it up. It's a really disturbing element of this issue to uncover.

[Secretwriter]

I don't think that it is legal immigration they're  trying to deter. Either way tha is a big accusation. Do you have a source for your comment?  I don't mean to sound rude but I lift a brow when race is a motivation for legalizing weed.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

The Cartels won’t be hurt as much as people believe.  A market for importing marijuana will exist for the drug organizations to use.  While there will be more competition from new business ventures, the drug Cartels are already proficient in intimidation and bullying tactics for other suppliers.  Already there is a production infrastructure in place for the marijuana to be grown and shipped.  Their cost of distribution will be drastically cut and their profits more securely generated along with a larger customer base.  This will offset most, if not all, of the loss they might take from legalization at the onset.  As I said, they already have a leg up for production and distribution so they can saturate the market with their product as opposed to local growers.

Also, illegal drug trade will still exist for some time after marijuana is legal.  People won’t want to pay the taxes, will want to smoke certain types of marijuana and probably complain about the marijuana approved for public consumption.  Then there are of course the other illegal substances.

I know drug policies do have racial motivators (crack vs powder cocaine), but have not heard the immigration bit.

[Oniya]

I don't think that it is legal immigration they're  trying to deter. Either way tha is a big accusation. Do you have a source for your comment?  I don't mean to sound rude but I lift a brow when race is a motivation for legalizing weed.

I don't know if this is where Lux read it, but this looks reliable enough:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2010/10/report-racial-bias-in-california-pot-arrests.html

[Lux12]

I don't think that it is legal immigration they're  trying to deter. Either way tha is a big accusation. Do you have a source for your comment?  I don't mean to sound rude but I lift a brow when race is a motivation for legalizing weed.

Have you read about what was going on or their motivations back when they first tried to outlaw the stuff?

[FireflyWhisper]

I'm very pleased that we are starting our path towards total decriminalization of marijuana.  We've poured far too much money into policing, prosecuting and jailing 'offenders' who are using and/or peddling a relatively harmless product.  Proper regulation and taxation are the way to go, I believe.  I hope a bunch more states follow along soon.

[Chris Brady]

As do I. 

I have rarely met a habitual pot user who wasn't an unmotivated leech.  That's the kicker.  Almost every pot user I've ever met hasn't seemed to care about anything in life except how to get high again.  It's sad.

I am LIVING THIS right now.  And it's gotten to the point where it's past merely eyerolling.  We got people in this very building mooching off others on a daily basis.  And because I don't smoke or drink, I'm usually the one they go for the first.  There's a financial reason I don't, can't afford to.  Barely living on 480 a month (after rent and important bills) because this place is falling apart...

Also, the reason that the Netherlands are such a nice rich country, is the same reason the Swiss made Communism work.  SIZE.  The more area you have to cover for various expenditures and general infrastructure the less you have for growth and investment.  Legalized Pot isn't even a factor here.

[Secretwriter]

Nope, dude, lol. I tend to avoid most political or theological discussions. Religiously. Lol.

[Lux12]

Pot's effect on someone's life seems to be less based in the actual effects of the drug and more of how the person uses it or their personal habits surrounding it. It does have very real psychoactive effects, but since it's not addictive in the way some believe it is, it seems to depend very heavily on the user.

[Chris Brady]

Pot's effect on someone's life seems to be less based in the actual effects of the drug and more of how the person uses it or their personal habits surrounding it. It does have very real psychoactive effects, but since it's not addictive in the way some believe it is, it seems to depend very heavily on the user.

It IS addictive.  You get addicted to the 'high' it gives you.  It doesn't hurt your system when you stop, like other hard drugs, but it does affect you.  And like all drugs you WILL get a tolerance for it, over time, needing more and more to get the same rush you got.

I wouldn't be so against it if people would use it in moderation.  But sadly, addicts aren't known for that.  And very few people who use it, don't get addicted to the sensation.

[Lux12]

I know of the psychological addiction it can cause and how such addictions actually work. Moderation is often the best policy but humans by and large seem to be geared toward extremes and in a developed country where survival is not as strong a motivation as it is in less developed societies and nations leisure and pleasure take on a greater role in society thus allowing us more time to drown in our addictions if we so choose since we have less of an incentive to moderate... However I stand by my legalization stance for various reasons regardless as I believe the problem is more with the society itself than the drug.

[Chris Brady]

Oh, I agree, society is more to blame here, but legalizing Pot isn't going to help.

In fact, I have a sneaky suspicion that it will change nothing.  Except that more pencil pushers will get more money.

[Lux12]

Oh, I agree, society is more to blame here, but legalizing Pot isn't going to help.

In fact, I have a sneaky suspicion that it will change nothing.  Except that more pencil pushers will get more money.

Well people really want more money, and if it appears to be a way to procure it, a large number of people will likely jump on it.At least that is how things often go.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Most drugs are psychological in their dependence, but that does not detract from the seriousness of the addiction or the affect of that addiction on people's lives.  Very few substances create a physical dependence so the lack of a physical dependence should not be used as a means to justify the legalization.  Also I doubt the legalization of marijuana is going to do much useful for society, though keeping the substance illegal isn't providing much benefit either.

[Caela]

Most drugs are psychological in their dependence, but that does not detract from the seriousness of the addiction or the affect of that addiction on people's lives.  Very few substances create a physical dependence so the lack of a physical dependence should not be used as a means to justify the legalization.  Also I doubt the legalization of marijuana is going to do much useful for society, though keeping the substance illegal isn't providing much benefit either.

For society as a whole I agree. Legalizing pot won't do much for it. What it will do is keep it from being a constant drain on law enforcement resources from cops on the streets, to guards having to watch over folks who just happened to be carrying too much, to federal agents as well. There are better things to spend their time, and our tax dollars on than a substance that is really no more harmful that a lot of other legal substances.  A lot of the problems people have with it, are not really about the pot itself, but about their own lack of self-control and without the pot, most of them would likely just be addicted to something else.

You shouldn't make something illegal simply because a section of society can't control itself.

I guess I also have a different perspective since I know people who do use it in moderation and aren't just your stereotypical "leeches".

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Well, law enforcement benefits from the money pumped into the war on drugs.  Those guards would not be employed without the funding of the federal government into the “War on Drugs” and those police officers would have less pay and hours without the additional money.  There is a lot of money and investment tied up in the business of punishing and rehabilitating drug abusers, which marijuana abuse is one of the big ones due to its popularity.  I think there will still be an underground market for marijuana as people don’t like the federal regulations and pricing for the new ones.  Marijuana smoking will also come under fire from opponents to cigarette smoking and may likely be put on the way out just as tobacco is becoming. 

I think people who are vehemently against marijuana legalization don’t understand how little would change by legalizing the substance.  I also think that people vehemently for legalization of marijuana don’t understand how little would change society wide in regard to the substance and what will happen.  Humorous and sad as this might be, marijuana might be banned again in the near future if the war on tobacco and bad food is any indication.

[Secretwriter]

More of my local law enforcement's time is spent on pot busts instead of meth busts.  There is more meth in my area, growing steaily since one of the local weed growers got busted in 2002. Pot became scarce and the idiots went to meth.  And I will check the articles out when I am on my laptop. For some reason I never check this thread unless its on my phone, Lux.

[Lux12]

More of my local law enforcement's time is spent on pot busts instead of meth busts.  There is more meth in my area, growing steaily since one of the local weed growers got busted in 2002. Pot became scarce and the idiots went to meth.  And I will check the articles out when I am on my laptop. For some reason I never check this thread unless its on my phone, Lux.

Ah yes.Meth is particularly bothersome because it's not only highly addictive, it's easy to get your hands on the ingredients.But of course,there's little I probably need to explain about meth.I was rather shocked to hear about just how widespread meth has become.In fact, I think there was some kind of bust somewhere around here (a town over from where I live) not too long ago.  Funny since there's a rehab for meth addicts in that town too. But I suppose there would be no need for the rehab without the meth.

[Oreo]

Congrats to Maine, Washington and Colorado. I literally stood up and cheered for Colorado. I'm glad we at least have medicinal marijuana here in California. Two from my household grow for their own use every year since it went into effect. They are more active now than when using Vicodin and Dilantin. My brother gets terribly mean and violent when drunk, but remains a sweetheart when using pot.  He also has epilepsy and finds more relief from pot than any seizure medication they have tried on him.

To equate pot use with pharmaceuticals is almost laughable. The list of side effect warnings is sometimes scarier than the disease itself. If I could use pot for my Meniere's instead of Valium I would happily do so, but alas it has a tendency to make me dizzier.

I get so upset when people think pot is worse than alcohol. Alcohol is much more harmful and I would suppose that it is a far worse gateway drug than pot since it is readily available in most homes for curious youngsters to try (speaking from experience). Growing up there was no lock on the liquor cabinet.

The only problem with any drug is the person using it, whether they can differentiate from casual use or have an addictive nature. Legality is not going to change this. If I had my druthers I would rather see pot on the shelves and alcohol off them!

STATISTICS for Marijuana vs Alcohol

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Please be careful when discussing the use of marijuana in place of or in addition to medications prescribed and handled by medical professionals.  Any treatment should be discussed with a physician .

Keep in mind also that the rigorous testing done by medications with their “scary” side effects is what brings up that extensive list.  THC containing medication can also have a fairly lengthy list of side effects.

http://www.drugguide.com/ddo/ub/view/Davis-Drug-Guide/51247/all/dronabinol

[Oreo]

Please be careful when discussing the use of marijuana in place of or in addition to medications prescribed and handled by medical professionals.  Any treatment should be discussed with a physician .

Keep in mind also that the rigorous testing done by medications with their “scary” side effects is what brings up that extensive list.  THC containing medication can also have a fairly lengthy list of side effects.

http://www.drugguide.com/ddo/ub/view/Davis-Drug-Guide/51247/all/dronabinol

Thank you, Pumpkin Seeds. I should have remembered to disclaimer that aspect. I agree, always check with your physician first even if it is something as simple as health food supplements. My doctor has helped me find my way around several ailments with something other than harsh drugs.

[Secretwriter]

After reading what was linked, I see what you meant, Lux and Oni.  My local area is pretty much racially even where crimes are concerned.  Honestly, I'd say that it's more white than black in crimes committed. According to the 'Just Busted' paper.

[LunarSage]

Our paper is called "Crime Times".  I had never seen anything like it before moving here.

[Oniya]

After reading what was linked, I see what you meant, Lux and Oni. 

You can tell I miss my court-watching channel.  ;D