DND 3.5 all Wizard Game

[TheGlyphstone]

Well, most people play online with a modicum of trust and honor - it's kind of essential, unless you intend for the DM to roll every attack and check you need to make through the adventure.

That's one reason I used the E roller though - it tracks everything, so you would be able to see if they made retests.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, in Invisible Castle I used my char name which was told well far before I made the rolls.

[Cerebellum von Doom]

I'm not saying we're not trustworthy.  Was more commenting on the point of rolling.  Might as well have done point buy.  Anyway...Sekhmet and I were curious about a particular rule in DnD, that of there being an exp penalty to magical item creation.  It just seems backwards that one would become LESS experienced with doing work.  Perhaps a modification of this might be possible?  Regardless I am taking Craft Wondrous Item.

[Ryven]

I'm not saying we're not trustworthy.  Was more commenting on the point of rolling.  Might as well have done point buy.  Anyway...Sekhmet and I were curious about a particular rule in DnD, that of there being an exp penalty to magical item creation.  It just seems backwards that one would become LESS experienced with doing work.  Perhaps a modification of this might be possible?  Regardless I am taking Craft Wondrous Item.

I kind of agree with this, and I don't blame anyone for rerolling if all their stats are crap.  A 16 in intelligence is hardly going to outweigh getting 6's, 8's, and 9's in everything else.  You don't need all 16 -18 in everything, but really having 10-12 in lesser vital stats is not too much to ask for.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yeah, same here (craft wondrous item that is, as it's one preq feats for effigy master and creating effigys).

I also agree it's weird that XP is lost from crafting when actually it would make more sense a craftsman grows more experienced when they craft items. XP gain would not be big (or otherwise every fighter picks blacksmithing and dings in down doing nonstop swords and level up to 20 just doing lots swords under a month). Only what I can think is that there is craft reserve like artificers do have per level. That much items you can invest XP in. Also if making magic items you need just buy magical components to pay up the XP. But you can also burn XP if you like craft item (after craft reserve done nor magic items in hand for disenchanting).

[TheGlyphstone]

The XP burn is a relic of older editions - in that, XP was a combination of battle experience and life-force...when you crafted a magical item, you were literally imparting it with a fraction of your soul and magical ability in order to make it function.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yeah, and that sense XP still makes sense in crafting but it hurts also progress for char to level up if they craft anything. So would be nice if there would be certain side reserve besides XP. Or that you can craft items without slowing down and lagging behind others who gain levels. My own table rule is that per level you can craft (permanent ones, not scrolls or potions) 3 magic items. If you do not craft 3 items they do not stack up and stay up to next level.

In case of potions and scrolls I find XP cost in them quite small (so long their not wish spell scroll or permanency) so I mostly ignore it in my table group. But of course common sense that player is not running around +1K cure moderate wound potions. I mostly say either 3 permanent items (cloak of resistance example) or 30 nonpermament magic items (wands, scrolls, staffs, potions).

[Ryven]

I was thinking the same thing as you, Zaer.  X permanent items per level, and consumable maybe Y per level per day.  So at 5th level you could create whatever you decide Y is in scrolls scrolls or potions, etc.

The only problem with limiting the number of permanent items you create is it would spike the cost (theoretically) if you bought them from a vendor.  It might just be easiest for the GM to just say "You get X number of permanent and consumable magic items that combined value cannot exceed Y."

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yeah, there could be limit also said in gold. Of course crafters get more items (and so saves in party found loot cash for something else). But not by much perhaps. Of course they can add further gold to the limit to craft something more complex or expensive item.

[TheGlyphstone]

Pathfinder just did away with XP costs entirely, which was nice - though it also made crafting feats mandatory for any party, because why wouldn't you want all your gear at half cost?

In 3.5, crafting is a fantastic idea only if the GM hands out XP according to the encounter charts, rather than lump sums or leveling at the speed of plot - because lower-level characters recieve more XP for a given challenge, they'll equalize the level difference fairly quickly while still getting their gear at half price. Otherwise, crafting does have drawbacks, and if it's a plot-level game, crafting is a permanently crippling idea.

[Cerebellum von Doom]

I'm looking into Artificer as a goal for my character, so this conversation makes quite a significant difference.  Also, I'm having difficulty finding references to making clockwork creations.  Does anyone know what book they were in?  Because that would be relevant to our setting.

[TheGlyphstone]

In 3.5, there really aren't any...and Artificer is a base class in the Ebberon Campaign Setting anyways.

The closet you'd find to clockwork creations is the Mechanika in the Iron Kingdoms setting books, and those tend to be steam-driven, not clockwork.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Check Effigy creature template in Complete Arcana. According the text effigy creature = clockwork creature. But if you want make some inteligent clockwork creatures then effigy creature is not for you as they have 0 Int (they can perform any task what is programmed to them but beyond that their thought capacity is limited besides following orders).

[Ryven]

I haven't decided yet, but I'm looking at elemental savant or master specialist as PrC's for my character.

[TheGlyphstone]

Master specialist for me, rolling into Archmage once I've completed MS.

Anyone who's planning on Prestige classing should definitely consider the Specialist Wizard variants for trading out familiars - they're all relatively minor bonuses, but with some real gems...the Conjurer Rapid Summoning in particular is fantastic. If you really want a familar for flavor purposes, a feat spent on Obtain Familar from CArcane gets it back, with the bonus that your PrC levels now stack with your wizard levels for determining its Int score and abilities.

@DM: Still looking for an up/down on Able Learner, though Zaer's suggestion is good too if you'd rather homebrew a single feat that adds a couple skills as permanent in-class skills (Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Information specifically).

[Zaer Darkwail]

Some spells are quite handy to be send and used by familiar which may be more mobile than wizard. Or familiar work as scout or even powerful minion when boosted. I myself plan keep/get familiar but also mostly because there is no generalist wizard variant without familiar :P.

[TheGlyphstone]

Name: Lorosh Vatesi de Caramas
Race: Human
Class: Diviner 3/Master Specialist 2 (Banned Necromancy)
Alignment: Chaotic Good

Eye Color: Blue
Hair Color: Black
Complexion: Pale
Height: 6’5”
Weight:  175lbs.
Gender: Male
Orientation: Straight
Age: 24

Appearance:
Lorosh’s face is long and narrow, with arched eyebrows that seem to give an impression of permanent amusement, or sinister mockery in the right lighting. He enjoys fine dress, favoring robes of dark blue or black trimmed with gold embroidery and finery, sometimes with tiny studded gemstones to show off his wealth. He wears his family signet ring at all times.



Personality:
Cheerful, energetic, and friendly, Lorosh loves socializing and partying with whoever will buy the drinks, and buy the drinks himself if none are forthcoming. He is constantly laid-back and takes a very lax attitude towards his studies, often choosing to sleep in and ‘attend’ lectures via scrying sensor while cuddling one cute tartlet or another from the comfort of his room. His boisterous exterior conceals a keen, attentive mind, though, and he is always on the lookout for interesting or potentially valuable bits of information. For the right price, practically anything about or in Mretz can be found through Lorosh and his network of contacts in the city, though he seldom goes further than arranging a meeting between the aspiring purchaser and whichever black marketer is willing to sell.


History:
Born the third son of one of Mretz’s powerful noble families, Lorosh had much of his life set out in stone before he was even out of the cradle. The first son of the de Caramas was always groomed as the inheriting heir, the second for the clergy, and the third to be trained as a mage. As he grew up, insulated from the outside world but pampered for his every need, the young Lorosh developed an intense curiosity for just about everything. He was always asking questions, and when the answers did not satisfy him, he sought them out on his own, a constant thorn in the side of his bodyguards and servants. When he was old enough, he discovered how to sneak out of the family estates, travelling incognito into Clocktown and partying it up with the best of them. In the process, he made many friends among the lower classes, even a few contacts in the Tick-Tock Men.

It was with heartfelt relief that the de Caramas servants turned him over into the care of the Arcane Academy’s own staff, though this did little to stifle his explorations. Always a friendly, charismatic and outgoing person, he found himself practically besieged by female admirers, providing him with what seemed like a never-ending stream of dalliances and short-term relationships that almost invariably ended amicably. His natural inclination towards information and inquiry made him a natural at the field of divination, and he threw himself into the arts of scrying with every bit as much enthusiasm as he did the arts of love.

Secrets:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Despite being well-known as a lady’s man and general Casanova, Lorosh still harbors a faint and so far unsatisfied submissive streak – he often fantasizes about being with an aggressive, dominant woman, but concern for protecting his brash and confident reputation has so far stymied any efforts he might have otherwise made to satisfy those urges.

He is also a compulsive voyeur, an unsurprising trait for a burgeoning diviner. On nights where he lacks a companion to warm his bed, he often works his magic to scry on the bedchambers of his favorites from former affairs with other students.

Enemies:
Lorosh has no lack of enemies, either from his bloodline or himself personally. The de Caramas family is a middleweight among Mretz’s noble houses – not powerful enough to challenge for dominance, but too powerful to be ignored. This makes them and those like them targets by rival houses above, equal to, and below them, seeking a void to fill or eliminating a potential competitor. Nor has Lorosh himself gone without forming enmities – for the most part, they are people outside the walls of the Academy who know him only by aliases and in disguises, but he retains one or two jealous and jilted ex-lovers resentful of his ‘abandoning’ them.

Motivation:
Scientia potentia est – “Knowledge is Power” in Draconic, the de Caramas family motto. Lorosh takes this to heart, and adds his own collary – magia scientia est, “Magic is Knowledge”. He aims to become the greatest information broker in Mretz, using his secrets and skills to ensure his family’s permanent ascendancy and secure seat among the Council of Hours.

Sheet: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=299747

[SomeGuy]

I'm just going to drop, not really liking the way this is starting off.

[Cerebellum von Doom]

How unfortunate.  Why Someguy?  Is there something we've done that has turned you off to the game?

[SomeGuy]

I can understand wanting good stats, but this, this, this, and this seem like a bad way to start a game. I'm perfectly okay with high powered games, but if you want really good stats have everyone agree on something like, 5d6 keep 3, reroll 1s and 2s.

[TheGlyphstone]

I can understand wanting good stats, but this, this, this, and this seem like a bad way to start a game. I'm perfectly okay with high powered games, but if you want really good stats have everyone agree on something like, 5d6 keep 3, reroll 1s and 2s.

I am shocked, shocked, to find that gambling stat-stacking is going on in this casino!

Stop the presses! Character-rigging scandal exposed in burgeoning D&D game by fearless whistleblower! Exclusive story at 11!

[Ryven]

I can understand wanting good stats, but this, this, this, and this seem like a bad way to start a game. I'm perfectly okay with high powered games, but if you want really good stats have everyone agree on something like, 5d6 keep 3, reroll 1s and 2s.

I think that was kind of the problem.  There wasn't, or at least I didn't see, a standardized way of rolling our stats listed so far.  We just did our own thing.  Doom also pointed out previously what you're pointing out right now, and the only reason you're having such a problem is because you have evidence that it was done.  Would it have been easier for you if we just pull numbers out of thin air and say we 'rolled' to get them?

I'm perfectly fine with rerolling my stats if that's a problem, and I'll even do it on the invisiblecastle website to show that I have.  Other than that, I think point buy is the only other way to ensure our 'trustworthiness' as it were even though I see no problem so far.

[TheGlyphstone]

I'm running on the equivalent of a 29-point buy myself, so I wouldn't object to a point buy restandardization of stats.

[Ryven]

I don't even know what my stats amount out to in point buy.

[TheGlyphstone]

Not counting your Intelligence (I didn't either), you rolled the equivalent of a 30-point buy. With Int, that's a 43.

With Int, I had a 39 point buy.

Zaer's final statline equates to a 46 point buy.

'Miroque' decided to be happy with a 59-point buy.

CvD stopped trying at a 38-point buy.

Interesting what everyone felt was the minimum stats they needed, it's a pretty wide spread.