WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[TheGlyphstone]

Science and Technology do not have to go hand in hand. The average person on an Imperial civilized world can afford to buy a dataslate with their daily wage at whatever job they work at. They have no idea how it works, or even how to fix it when it breaks, though they might know the daily ritual prayer to keep its machine spirit cooperative. All they know is what buttons to push to make it do the functions they need.

As for the RPG gear lists...remember that almost everything on those lists is military-grade or otherwise something the common person isn't going to even have a hope of finding, let alone buying. You don't buy bolters on the street corner even if you're on a forge world where they are mass-manufactured, because stuff like that simply isn't permitted to be sold to the average citizen. You buy them from black marketeers or crooked factory workers, or use your connections to requisition them through the authorities who make it as a special order.

[Beorning]

Good point about the weapons.

But as you mentioned forge worlds... they are one of the reasons I feel confused. If all technology in the Imperium is controlled by Mechanicus and manufactured on forge worlds, then how is it possible for such technological diversity to exist among the empire? If there's one central authority that manufactures things, shouldn't the various worlds be of similar tech level?

I mean, if there was a planet where people had hovercars... and then, that planet got assimilated into the Imperium... then, shouldn't this planet's hovercar know-how be added to the general knowledge of Mechanicus? And, if so, why aren't there hovercars on every planet?

Also, there's this issue of archaeotech and banned technology. They are mentioned in the books, so I gather that some technology has been lost after the Dark Age of Technology. And that there are some technologies that aren't allowed to spread...

[deadmanshand]

The Mechanicus does not believe in innovation. If they find new tech they squirrel it away in the vaults of Mars. And even if they did just assimilate new technology could they possibly make enough to supply millions of worlds with all the same technology? Could they spend the time it would take to teach every feudal or primitive world how to use the technology?

The Imperium is simply too big - too unwieldy - to create that kind of balance while waging endless wars at the same time.

[TheGlyphstone]

And the simple logistics aside, let's say the Mechanicus has repulsor technology/civilian hover-cars. That is rare, and valuable technology, and they control this theoretical planet where it is easily available. What motivation to they have to make this freely available to anyone else, when instead it could be used as an extremely valuable bargaining chip with planets or groups they don't have such tight control over?

Also, forge worlds aren't the only place stuff is manufactured. They are places where only things are manufactured - it's a Factory World, devoted entirely to production the way an Agri-World is devoted entirely to foodstuffs. A Civilized World would have factories here and there to produce, say, data-slates or ground cars, things common and ubiquitous enough that it's not worth the time or energy for the AdMech to maintain their monopoly on production. They're still the only people who know how to fix or repair said things when they break, after all.

[Wajin]

A great example also of the Mechanicus loosing their collective shit over someone keeping technology, or possible knowledge of the workings and fabrication of said technoloigy, from them would be the Dark Angels who literally hold the LAST FUNCTIONING FUCKING JETBIKE IN THE IMPERIUM. And because the Dark Angels are 1. Astartes and 2. Secretive as fuck, the Mechanicus can do fuck all to get this technology from them, even though it's been stated repeatedly that they want the thing. The hilarious thing about all of this, is that the Dark Angels might very well have in their hands the STC for Jetbikes, as the Jetbike mentioned has been practically reduced to dust hundreds if not thousands of times, yet during the next campaign that the Ravenwing participate in Corvex as it's called is there once again.

IF the Dark Angels have this STC it would be one HELL of a bargaining chip if they ever need ANY favour from the Mechanicus.


Also Skyweavers are cool as fuck :P

[Beorning]

Hmm. Okay then, so there are worlds with typical advanced, sci-fi tech...

But, if I understand correctly, even on such worlds people should be of the slightly backwards mindset? And they should be treating their technology with some degree of wonder or fear? After all, they wouldn't be understanding how this technology works...

BTW. Anyone interested in helping me to plot my DH adventure? I have a general idea, but I keep thinking on it and can't iron out the plot details...

[Inkidu]

Pretty much. The Adeptus Mechanus basically says worship machines. Though it's more a case of Clarke's Third Law.

Plenty of human tech actually has A.I (the machine spirit) but AI is strictly forbidden in the robot sense because of the Iron Men thing that happened before the Omnissiah (Emperor of Mankind) revealed himself.

[Beorning]

Thank you for your input, as always :)

In other news: I made some big progress on the penitent engine. I finished painting and I'm gradually assembling it together. I did pinning on some of the joints, I hope that it'll help the model to stay in one piece...

Working on this piece made me realize that I really, really like this hobby! So, I decided to keep collecting... also, I decided that I want to have the Dark Eldar, too. So, I purchased the DE codex today! Yay, my first codex :) I mean, yes, I do have the Sororitas codex, but it's just an ebook - the DE codex is the first "real" codex for me.

Can't wait to learn everything about the Wyches, Hellions and other Kaballaks :)

On another note - how about this for a Chaos Space Marine song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ8lpCQbyw

[Oniya]

You'd have a hard time yanking that away from the Highlander associations.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27xu0_high-quality-opening-credits-of-hig_music

[Beorning]

Hey, I know! But we need to think outside the box :)

I'm getting tired that Chaos videos on Youtube are always dark and all. If I knew how to do such stuff (and how to proceed correctly copyright-wise), I'd make a CSM video using this song...

Hm. Now I wonder which upbeat song could fit the Dark Eldar. :) All DE tributes on Youtube are sooooo creepy and scary, full of deathmetal music and so on...

[Oniya]

The first song that comes to mind when I pair 'upbeat song' with 'pointy-eared bastards' is Dance Magic.  Probably not helpful.  ;D

[Beorning]

The Bowie song from Labirynth? :)

[deadmanshand]

Rihana - S&M for the S&M Space Elves. Anything else is too dignified.

[Oniya]

The Bowie song from Labirynth? :)

Yup.  Tell me that a Goblin King isn't a pointy-eared bastard.  Even if Bowie didn't wear ear-tips.

[Beorning]

Oh, he is :) Although he seems more akin to the fae than the elves, I think?

Anyway! Here's a serious DE video I found on Youtube, a rare one that isn't excessively terrifying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzZwapt00c8

[Beorning]

Okay, I read the Dark Eldar codex... the fluff part, at least.

... oh crap, these guys are EVIL. I'd risk saying that they are the most wicked faction in the setting. The Chaos worshippers have nothing on them...

[Oniya]

Oh, he is :) Although he seems more akin to the fae than the elves, I think?

True.  And I wasn't thinking that it would make a particularly good DE song - just that it was the only thing that came to mind with that combo.

[TheGlyphstone]

Okay, I read the Dark Eldar codex... the fluff part, at least.

... oh crap, these guys are EVIL. I'd risk saying that they are the most wicked faction in the setting. The Chaos worshippers have nothing on them...

Ooooooh yeah. The Dark Eldar are some seriously twisted SOBs.

[Inkidu]

Here's a litmus test for how evil your race is in 40K

Have you created a Chaos God?

No? You're just one hundred times worse than the average Nazi. Three Kilonazis at worst.

Yes? You're the goddamned Dark Eldar. :P

[TheGlyphstone]

Strictly speaking, the Dark Eldar only get half of that blame - it was the entire pre-fall Eldar race who birthed a Chaos God. The Dark Eldar just decided/were forced to keep doing that kind of stuff, but worse, afterwards...it's a bit of the whole thing I've always been a bit fuzzy on, actually. Somehow, being evil twisted sadistic monsters keeps them immortal, and thus preserves their souls from being eaten by Slaanesh. If they stop being twisted monsters, they die and get devoured.

[Beorning]

The codex says that the souls of the DE are being gradually sucked out by Slaanesh, so they have to rejuvanate them with other beings' pain. I wonder if not-Dark Eldar have the same problem with their souls being sucked?

Anyway... I'll need to come up with some way of making my particular group of DEs sympathetic somehow, if I am to play them. Hmmmm.

BTW. How about a romantic pairing of Deathwatch Space Marine and a female Wych captured during a raid? ;)

[Inkidu]

Well yes and no. The real non-hedonistic Eldar left in the craftworlds long before the Slaany was born.

I still think my estimates on the evilness are right.

I mean the nicest faction in 40K is the Tau and they're still like every fascist system on earth wrapped inside the Indian caste system that read 1984 and said, "Mmm... I can do better by at least seventy percent."Deep-fried in a system of social engineering and brutal eugenics.

Yeah, they're the good guys. They're also incredibly tolerant, reasonable, and rational, and that's probably going to get them wiped out by something. I think their one saving grace is that they're fairly immune to the more subtle effects of Chaos. 

[TheGlyphstone]

The codex says that the souls of the DE are being gradually sucked out by Slaanesh, so they have to rejuvanate them with other beings' pain. I wonder if not-Dark Eldar have the same problem with their souls being sucked?

Anyway... I'll need to come up with some way of making my particular group of DEs sympathetic somehow, if I am to play them. Hmmmm.

BTW. How about a romantic pairing of Deathwatch Space Marine and a female Wych captured during a raid? ;)

Craftworld/Exodite Eldar wear soulstones instead, and practice a severe, Vulcan-like personal austerity/asceticism - making their souls as bland as possible while they're alive, then having a receptacle to store their souls after they die and prevent them being devoured.

As for sympathetic DE...honestly, that's like having evil Sisters of Battle. They don't just torture and maim and murder other people to preserve their own lives, they do it because it's the most fun thing ever and they love doing it. You could take the second half away and make them reluctant psychopaths, but that's just so painfully emo I'm wincing as I write it. Everyone's got a monster side in them, no matter how tiny and anemic it might be. Let your DE's just be the monsters they are, and find that teeny-tiny monster in you and let it enjoy them. It's all fictional, after all.

[Beorning]

I still think my estimates on the evilness are right.

Oh, I do agree. :) I don't think that even Chaos cultists are so sadistic.

I mean the nicest faction in 40K is the Tau and they're still like every fascist system on earth wrapped inside the Indian caste system that read 1984 and said, "Mmm... I can do better by at least seventy percent."Deep-fried in a system of social engineering and brutal eugenics.

Yeah, they're the good guys. They're also incredibly tolerant, reasonable, and rational, and that's probably going to get them wiped out by something. I think their one saving grace is that they're fairly immune to the more subtle effects of Chaos.

I once read an opinion that the Tau are WH40K's take on Star Trek's Federation... which is an amusing thought. I mean, can you imagine the Star Fleet finding themselves in the WH40K's universe? These poor fools wouldn't stand a chance :D

BTW. Speaking of the evilness of various races, I don't think that Necrons are particularly nasty, are they? And the normal Eldar, too.

As for sympathetic DE...honestly, that's like having evil Sisters of Battle. They don't just torture and maim and murder other people to preserve their own lives, they do it because it's the most fun thing ever and they love doing it. You could take the second half away and make them reluctant psychopaths, but that's just so painfully emo I'm wincing as I write it. Everyone's got a monster side in them, no matter how tiny and anemic it might be. Let your DE's just be the monsters they are, and find that teeny-tiny monster in you and let it enjoy them. It's all fictional, after all.

Oh, I do enjoy them... although it kind of worries me ;)

Although I'm not sure if a sympathetic DE character is necessarily emo... I can imagine that it could be interesting to explore someone who is a product of this vile society, but starts questioning it for some reason.

But okay, I admit that I have a knack for sympathetic monsters and scary people seeking redemption. I've been coming up with such characters for years...

[Inkidu]

Yes, the sympathetic Dark Eldar is much like the Ork Rhodes Scholar. Neither last too long in their respective societies. XD

Also, keep in mind that the soul stones of the craftworld eldar (not so much the Exodite, which is analogous to wood elves) are either put into some advanced units or stashed in the craftworld's infinity circuits.

The plan being that if enough eldar die with their souls in soul stones in the infinity circuits to create a God of Death and win the forever war. 

Also if we're talking about entities that can survive in 40K my vote has always been for Samus Aran. Mainly because she's got tech that starts out on the level of the tau if not higher and she can pretty much absorb any piece of tech. XD