I really have had enough of my country...

[Beorning]

Okay, not sure whether this would better fit this forum or The Bad & The Ugly, as it's my kind of my rant, more or less... Sorry if it's not appropriate here, mods.

Anyway...

You know, I... just can't stand what's going on with my country anymore (meaning, Poland). This government we've had since the 2016 elections, as well as the current President? These people are awful. They are literally turning this country into a dictatorship. It's just... insane.

I mean, these people have dismantled almost of all of the democratic checks and balances in our political system. The Constitutional Tribunal? Run by the government's puppets and issuing verdicts the government wants. The state prosecution? Under the direct control of the Minister of Justice. The police? Actively used to harrass the citizens who protest agains the government. Judges? Again, under the tightening control of Minister of Justice. The Supreme Court? The government is trying to take control of it right now, by basically firing 40% of the judges there.

The parliament? Reduced to basic "voting machine", with no discussion taking place on bills etc. The typical way of proceeding thing is: the goverments sends a bill to parliament in the morning, the Speaker runs the proceedings during the next day or two, the PMs vote without any discussion... and that's it. No deliberations, no consultations, bam! Some bills have been voted through and implemented in the matter of hours (and that includes the President's signature!).

And then, there's lying. I don't know, do the politicians in other countries lie as openly as our current government? Because the current government here lie *all the time*. And in the most brazen ways. The same goes for the public TV. Seriously, the propaganda there is straight out of history books. No attempt at objectivity, the public TV is just an aggressive government mouthpiece these days, openly villifying the opposition.

And it's just the institutional side of things. Then there's the growing racism and nationalist sentiment, the Catholic Church openly calling for implementing the total abortion ban etc...

And the worst thing? Quite a lot of people here like this state things!

I don't know... Can I move out to some other country? Someplace... sensible?

Ugh!

[Skynet]

I don't know... Can I move out to some other country? Someplace... sensible?

Ugh!

I feel you. I may not be the best person (I don't really do immigration stuff), but do you have family and friends in other countries? You can ask them how things are in their neck of the woods.

Given that Poland's an EU nation, going to another country within that realm may be easiest. However you'll get an easier sell depending on your skills. Something like a worker's visa, and checking to see if your skills have openings in their job markets.

I take it that you're fluent in English, but being able to speak the lingua franca is a nigh necessity; otherwise you'll more or less be limited to interactions with small immigrant enclaves of your own country. When you can't read the news, public works signs, signing documents and writing checks, etc, that really limits your ability to interact with society.

On immigrant enclaves, it can't hurt to see if there are countries with sizeable Polish immigrant communities, ideally ones who aren't filled with far-right nationalists like the one you're fleeing. You'll get a better picture of a shared cultural experience and it may be easy to speak with people of a shared language and background. But on the other hand you don't want that to become a crutch when they become your entire world (see the language thing above).

You should also look into how said countries view Polish and Slavic people in general. I recall that post-Brexit many hate crimes against said groups increased in the UK. As bad as things are, you don't want to move to a new home where a huge amount of people are going to hate you for your national origin.

I am not European, so I can't speak as to the overall politics of various countries and which ones would be ideal. Poland sounds like it's far-right, and there are many similar parties in Europe on the rise to varying extents. Are you looking for any alternative as long as it's not as extreme as Poland? Do you want a liberal/progressive country? Would you be okay with one which has more political freedoms but is very laissez-faire capitalist and may not necessarily have a good social safety net and infrastructure?


Sorry if I can't be more detailed. I myself am quite scared of a lot of things going on in the USA and its own government, but I more or less found a liberal island to live in where I can ride out the storm, although there are still effects from the Trump Administration eating around the edges. Is there anywhere in Poland itself which has some local government pushback against the President and RCC's influence?

[Missy]

How does all this effect you personally, what will your government do if you try to speak out, how oppressed would you say you are personally? Seek asylum somewhere.

[gaggedLouise]

Yes, I agree with the others. Try to emigrate west - or northwest across the Baltic. :) It won't be easy, but remaining in Poland sounds like a really bad option.

[Eye of Horus]

This is not good news at all. :(

On the one hand, it’ll be absolutely terrible PR for Poland if police are seen actually dragging senior judges out of their offices. The EU is also leaning on them pretty hard to row back, but I don’t know if the nationalists in Hungary will ultimately block any sanctions (and if the move will just feed into the us-vs-them mentality of Polish nationalists).

There’s protests kicking off though, showing that plenty of people like Beorning are not happy with this power grab. We’ll have to see where they lead.

[Beorning]

Eh, I don't know. Truth to be told, I honestly I don't see myself as moving to another country... Way too much problems with that - I mean, I had trouble finding a job back here, I can imagine it won't be easier abroad. Also, there are health issues...

But, you see, I don't really want to make it personal. At least, not personal in the "Help me move abroad" sense... I just, I don't know - I need to share all of this with someone?

The thing is, these bad political changes don't effect me - not directly. But I watch the news and I can see the country is going in a bad direction. And it makes me sick.

Also, the politics are one thing - but I'm greatly disappointed by this nation as a whole. I mean, for all the bad things the new government has done, it still has the support of under 40% of voters! The hypocrisy, arrogance and incompetence of this government is staggering - and yet, people can't see that. What's wrong with them???

The last two years have made really, really disillusioned about Poland. I tended to like my country, but now? What I see is a country that has had its time of greatness in the 16th century. It was all downhill from there. Basically, I can't help thinking that Poland is (and long has been) a backwards country with not too many achievements when it comes to science or culture. And with an immature society that cannot grasp basic concepts of modern Western civilization (like, you know, the rule of law?), that is blinded by a shallow version of religion and lot of bigotry going on.

A sad possibility is: the current government in Poland is no aberration. It may actually be what the average Pole wants this country to be...

I know, I'm ranting. Sorry...

[Eye of Horus]

Also, the politics are one thing - but I'm greatly disappointed by this nation as a whole. I mean, for all the bad things the new government has done, it still has the support of under 40% of voters! The hypocrisy, arrogance and incompetence of this government is staggering - and yet, people can't see that. What's wrong with them???

What’s “wrong” with them is a few things:

People like simple solutions, even if the problem is complex. They don’t care how the solution is implemented.

People like to feel part of something bigger than themselves. A nationality or a racial identity gives them a feeling of pride.

People like strongman leaders, even though they’re almost always terrible for society as a whole.

People assume that someone who speaks with passion and confidence automatically knows what they’re talking about (yeah, now you know why the world is run the way it is).

Once people believe in a person / a solution, they’ll do a surprising amount of mental gymnastics to explain away their flaws.

Try and take heart from the fact that, if 40% of Poles voted for PiS, then 60% didn’t.

[RedRose]

Yes, moving is hard, and every country has problems.
I know many people who left ____ for ____ and in the end, not all of them are happier.
I have never been to Poland so I don't know.

[HairyHeretic]

If you did decide to move abroad, customer service for a multinational company is always a good option for someone with multilingual skills. It also pays more than just English speakers.

[Remiel]

What’s “wrong” with them is a few things:

People like simple solutions, even if the problem is complex. They don’t care how the solution is implemented.

People like to feel part of something bigger than themselves. A nationality or a racial identity gives them a feeling of pride.

People like strongman leaders, even though they’re almost always terrible for society as a whole.

People assume that someone who speaks with passion and confidence automatically knows what they’re talking about (yeah, now you know why the world is run the way it is).

Once people believe in a person / a solution, they’ll do a surprising amount of mental gymnastics to explain away their flaws.

I feel like this needs to be engraved on a monument somewhere.   It also explains perfectly what is going on in the USA right now.

[Beorning]

Hmmm. What I'm wondering currently is: does the public in other countries notice what's going on here? If so, what's being said about it?

[Lustful Bride]

Hmmm. What I'm wondering currently is: does the public in other countries notice what's going on here? If so, what's being said about it?

I hear nothing from mainstream news, the only time I have heard about the PiS was in a few of Philllip De Franco's videos but not as indebt as when you report about it Beorning.

[gaggedLouise]

There's been some coverage here in Sweden, in newspapers and on the radio, and many people are worried about what's going on (I've talked with people I know about it). Poland is close and there are quite a few journalists and writers here with a Polish or German background, so it's a country the media won't treat as distant and irrelevant. Also, Poland and Sweden are poles apart (pun intended!) on many questions racking the EU, not least how to handle the migrant crisis.

[Beorning]

I hear nothing from mainstream news, the only time I have heard about the PiS was in a few of Philllip De Franco's videos but not as indebt as when you report about it Beorning.

So, the USA doesn't care? :\

There's been some coverage here in Sweden, in newspapers and on the radio, and many people are worried about what's going on (I've talked with people I know about it). Poland is close and there are quite a few journalists and writers here with a Polish or German background, so it's a country the media won't treat as distant and irrelevant. Also, Poland and Sweden are poles apart (pun intended!) on many questions racking the EU, not least how to handle the migrant crisis.

Good to hear that...

[Missy]

Americans are generally ignorant of anything which happens outside of our borders.

It's not like it is for the rest of the world, most other peoples business doesn't have the same effect on us most of the time.

[Lustful Bride]

Americans are generally ignorant of anything which happens outside of our borders.

It's not like it is for the rest of the world, most other peoples business doesn't have the same effect on us most of the time.

Plus with Trump in charge, the news always has something controversial and exciting to talk and scream at eachother about :/ its all about ratings for them anyway.

[Eye of Horus]

There’s been no news on the BBC about it since 4th July, when they mentioned that the Chief Justice was turning up for work in defiance of the retirement law, and that the EU was preparing to take action.

[Mathim]

Power corrupts. That's all it boils down to. You have to start from on high and fall like Batman to rise above it, I think. And that's not something real anyway, so there goes that hope.

[Beorning]

Yesterday, there was a concert by Roger Waters in Gdańsk. During the concert, there were some messages displayed that supported the democracy in Poland. Including this one:


It's good to see that some people in the world do notice what's going here... I hope it also opens some eyes in Poland.

BTW. You know, when I see how many people are happy with what the PiS government is doing, with their undermining of democracy, isolating us from the rest of Europe, with their ruining our chances at building an open, humane society - here's what I feel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvuM3DjvYf0&t=1s

Seriously, that's the state of my mind right now...

[Eye of Horus]

Yesterday, there was a concert by Roger Waters in Gdańsk. During the concert, there were some messages displayed that supported the democracy in Poland.

That’s heartening to see.

What’s been happening in Poland since the forced retirement of the high court judges? I’m sorry to say that there’s still been very little about the goings-on in your country in the U.K. news outlets.