What's in the news?

[Quick Ben]

So agree.
Something can be bad and not be "Nazi".
Something can be needed and still bad - not that I will ever agree to separating children (esp. under teens) from their real family, not speaking of trafficking here!
Whether the left or the right started it, I am against separating children from family.

The problem lies in the nature of undocumented immigrants. If they have no paperwork, it's hard to tell if that child is with an actual parent. I believe the current numbers are that 10,000 of the 12,000 children in HHS care crossed the border WITHOUT their parent(s). So, a majority of these children are either alone or accompanied by strangers or even worse. It'd be irresponsible NOT to separate them because you have no idea if the person they are with is a sex trafficker or not.

[Sara Nilsson]

The problem lies in the nature of undocumented immigrants. If they have no paperwork, it's hard to tell if that child is with an actual parent. I believe the current numbers are that 10,000 of the 12,000 children in HHS care crossed the border WITHOUT their parent(s). So, a majority of these children are either alone or accompanied by strangers or even worse. It'd be irresponsible NOT to separate them because you have no idea if the person they are with is a sex trafficker or not.

gonna need some sauce for those numbers

[Quick Ben]

Kirstjen Nielsen provided the figure in her recent press conference.

[Avis habilis]

Nielsen has a barely nodding acquaintance with the truth, as she has taken great pains to demonstrate recently.

And, as of June 15, there were 11,517 minors in the “Unaccompanied Children’s Program,” according to the Department of Health and Human Services’ Administration for Children and Families. (That figure doesn’t distinguish between those who crossed the border with their parents and those who did so alone.)

Either she didn't understand or didn't care about the distinction.

[Quick Ben]

One could also use context clues and suggest that those children, presumably 2000, separated from their parents are then classified as unaccompanied minors because they are then, in fact, unaccompanied.

Whether she didn't understand or didn't care is a speculative charge with no basis.

This still doesn't change that if you don't want to be separated from your kids at the border, you should use the ports of entry where you are legally allowed to apply for asylum.

[Quick Ben]

It's also entirely reasonable to split children up at the border because you have zero idea whether the person they are with is actually a parent. Doing so is for the child's safety.

[Quick Ben]

I believe the border agent here does a solid job relating how complicated the border issue actually is.

[Avis habilis]

This still doesn't change that if you don't want to be separated from your kids at the border, you should use the ports of entry where you are legally allowed to apply for asylum.

Except, as we're fully aware already, that didn't make any difference:

[Quick Ben]

"This misreporting by Members, press & advocacy groups must stop. It is irresponsible and unproductive. As I have said many times before, if you are seeking asylum for your family, there is no reason to break the law and illegally cross between ports of entry.

You are not breaking the law by seeking asylum at a port of entry.

For those seeking asylum at ports of entry, we have continued the policy from previous Administrations and will only separate if the child is in danger, there is no custodial relationship between 'family' members, or if the adult has broken a law." - Kirstjen Nielsen, Twitter

[Avis habilis]

I'm gonna go out on a limb & say it's unlikely she's chosen today to stop lying.

[Quick Ben]

If that's your position, so be it. We are at an impasse.

[Iniquitous]

She is part of 45's troupe. I suspect she is incapable of telling the truth.

[TheGlyphstone]

Hey, they're not lies. They're "Alternative Facts", remember?

[Avis habilis]

It's a feature, not a bug.

[Blythe]

I don't have a link for it at the moment, but all anyone is talking about in my part of Oklahoma is state question 788, which would legalize medicinal usage of marijuana. I think its to be voted on this month--fairly sure early voting opened here today.

[Iniquitous]

I don't have a link for it at the moment, but all anyone is talking about in my part of Oklahoma is state question 788, which would legalize medicinal usage of marijuana. I think its to be voted on this month--fairly sure early voting opened here today.

I hope it passes Blythe! I know I would love it if it were to ever pass here.

[Sara Nilsson]

I don't have a link for it at the moment, but all anyone is talking about in my part of Oklahoma is state question 788, which would legalize medicinal usage of marijuana. I think its to be voted on this month--fairly sure early voting opened here today.

crosses fingers!!! working with my docs to see if I can get it here in NJ for my pain.

[Blythe]

Ah, found 788 on ballotpedia:

https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_State_Question_788,_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(June_2018)/Full_article

[Skynet]

The problem lies in the nature of undocumented immigrants. If they have no paperwork, it's hard to tell if that child is with an actual parent. I believe the current numbers are that 10,000 of the 12,000 children in HHS care crossed the border WITHOUT their parent(s). So, a majority of these children are either alone or accompanied by strangers or even worse. It'd be irresponsible NOT to separate them because you have no idea if the person they are with is a sex trafficker or not.

Going to quote both myself and Oniya on this one from a similar discussion in another thread:

Skynet: Modern-day slavery is a real and present issue, but it's been a political buzzword among the far-right for the last year or so. The Pizzagate conspiracy theory was the most deranged, but it also manifested in people like Lauren Southern misdirecting and blocking Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders vessels from saving Syrian refugees on sinking ships and those lost at sea. She too made the claim that they were fighting "human traffickers..." even though her actions were to get those very people, some of which she claimed were being trafficked, killed.

And that doesn't even touch how FOSTA/SESTA is a sledgehammer for a scalpel's job which ironically ended up sending a lot of consensual adult sex workers onto the less-safe streets when online services were taken off the table.

Although this last example was just as much the Democrats' fault as the GOP, I have little sympathy for the right anymore when they pretend that they're protecting the very people they seek to hurt, oppress, and kill.

From the NPR article:

'The breaking point for Davidson came, he says, when he was asked to tell two siblings, ages 6 and 10, that they couldn't hug each other. "They called me over the radio. And they wanted to translate to these kids that the rule of the shelter is that they are not allowed to hug," he says. "And these are kids that had just been separated from their mom — basically just huddling and hugging each other in a desperate attempt to remain together." Southwest Key says it has a clear policy that allows touching and hugging in certain circumstances.'

Key point:  These are two siblings, elementary-school aged - and the shelter workers were saying they couldn't hug each other.  You have two children who are scared - whether they've been abducted for human trafficking or separated from their legal guardians is completely beside the point.

The NPR article referred to.

[Oniya]

I'd actually linked to the NPR article in my initial post, and embedded a quote later, as it appeared it had been overlooked.

[Lustful Bride]

Seem Trump was too trusting of the North.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-north-korea-total-denuclearization-started-officials-see-no-new-moves/ar-AAyYvqh?ocid=spartandhp

[RedRose]

The problem lies in the nature of undocumented immigrants. If they have no paperwork, it's hard to tell if that child is with an actual parent. I believe the current numbers are that 10,000 of the 12,000 children in HHS care crossed the border WITHOUT their parent(s). So, a majority of these children are either alone or accompanied by strangers or even worse. It'd be irresponsible NOT to separate them because you have no idea if the person they are with is a sex trafficker or not.

Can't it be seen from the reaction of the kid?
I suppose separation from a relative, a stranger or an abuser would differ.

[Regina Minx]

The problem lies in the nature of undocumented immigrants. If they have no paperwork, it's hard to tell if that child is with an actual parent. I believe the current numbers are that 10,000 of the 12,000 children in HHS care crossed the border WITHOUT their parent(s). So, a majority of these children are either alone or accompanied by strangers or even worse. It'd be irresponsible NOT to separate them because you have no idea if the person they are with is a sex trafficker or not.

See, there's this thing called a paternity test...

[Cassandra LeMay]

gonna need some sauce for those numbers

Actually the number of "alien minors" in custody of ORR/HHS is around 10,000: Source
But lets not forget that that number includes all "alien children", i.e. anyone under the age of 18 who is in HHS custody. How many of them were old enough to make the border crossing unaccompanied I have no idea.

(ORR is the Office of Refuge Resettlement, an agency under the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) that was chosen to take care of "alien children" because they supposedly are better equiped to deal with vulnerable minors than ICE/DHS. If you want to know how well that turned out, read up on Garza v. Hargan.)

... if you are seeking asylum for your family, there is no reason to break the law and illegally cross between ports of entry.

You are not breaking the law by seeking asylum at a port of entry. ...

And neither are you breaking the law when you seek asylum after / when crossing the border at a place not designated a port of entry. I am very certain that is part of the UN Refugee Convention, to which the United States are a member (or at least to the 1967 Protocol).  While international law is a huge can of worms, the Protocol should have become part of domestic law when the US signed up to it. (Perhaps someone more versed in these matters can clear this up.)
That is not a bug - it's a feature, and here is why: Imagine you are a member of a minority, say a certain religion, in Country A. The government of Country A has started to round up members of your group in internment camps. You want to leave the country and seek asylum in neighbouring Country B. If you are forced to exercise you right to seek asylum in Country B by going through a border post between A and B you will run into border guards from Country A before you can ever apply for asylum with the border guards in Country B. But those border guards from Country A will just arrest you and send you to an internment camp. That creates a Catch 22 where you can not legaly cross  the border, but you will also be sent back to Country A if you cross into Country B outside a port of entry, therefore never being able to claim asylum. The only way around this is to allow claims of asylum even after crossing the border at some point not designated a port of entry.

[Skynet]

Man arrested for child pornography hired to manage children at migrant detention center.

Where are the /pol/ types and Alex Jones fans? After they rose hell about Pizzagate, I thought they cared about the children!