D&D 4th ed

[Far eyes]

Well in essence there is no perfect game, you have to chose do you want a brod spectrum realistic simulation D100 Gurps (In most cases) or do you want a heroic action game 4e. Do you want balance between the classes a single grid work system like 4e has or do you want unique feel of systems ware unavoidably their will be better and worst options.

For example I have 2 regular live games. In one we have switched to 4e because it just works better, we all enjoy RP and we do a lot of it but in essence most of the time we want puzzles and just some grand old DnD style dungeon crawling HnS fun.

In the other game we mostly stick to 3e witch has bin dismantled and frankenstained to he point of it being 3.7E Custom model. Witch fits that groups likes and needs perfectly or at least close enough. I have no reason to doubt we will stick to it for ever

[kongming]

And honestly, I don't trust the judgment of sites like Paizo, the Gaming Den or Enworld, because they're all biased.  Paizo and the Gaming Den came in hating the very idea of 4th ed. straight out of the box, they did not want to like, and so, they don't finding each and every nitpick they could find.

That really isn't true. Before we (The Gaming Den) started seeing what they were doing, we were seriously hopeful. There was *doubt*, but we had hopes. It's just that we quickly saw what was happening every time they released a preview or any time Mearls went and opened his mouth. Some of the earliest information really had us excited.

However, my biggest beef is the actual system.  See, I'm torn.  On one hand I can understand and get behind every class having the same style of mechanics (The Dailies, at Wills and Encounter) but on the other hand, the flavour seems 'lost'.

I know what you mean there - the three types of usage are very easy to understand, very elegant... yet many agree that it somehow loses the flavour. I put it down to everygoddamn attack being the same thing - it doesn't matter if you throw ice or lightning, because they both do XdY + stat damage, and knock the foe back a few squares or immobilise them for 1 round. It's all the same. Likewise magic/mundane all work the same and nothing feels different. It's gone past "Use your imagination a bit better" and well into "Imagination is taking a break now, you've overworked it. Admit it, it's the same."


Incidentally, someone is going to be running a game at Gencon, with marked off 5' squares, the players actually going around in real full plate. The game will still be played with rules and that, but it'll be a fun display. It is also designed to teach WotC (who will be there to witness it) how stupid the HP/damage ratio is (there's going to be a half-time break against the boss), and how useless any knock-back is (unless it is knock-back + immobilise, or knocks them back so far they can't just charge you, or knocks them up for falling damage), by having the people walk back the 15 feet, then just turn around and wander back to where they were after.

It sounds like it'll be fun even ignoring the "This will teach them" aspect. Running about in real (heavy) armour, pretending to smack each other with swords, making 5' steps, people dressed in Chinese dragon costumes...

Oh, and the Warlock is more interesting and balanced (it used to be far too weak) in 4E. As such I'm converting it back to 3E.