The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

[Dhi]

For those curious, you can check out what will be launching on Disney+ a week early thanks to the Netherlands.
https://www.justwatch.com/nl/provider/disney-plus

[Mathim]

Well the Tick didn't get a third season, damn shame.

I think the only Phase 4 Marvel films I'm looking forward to are Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and Thor: Love and Thunder. I feel the inclusion of the Scarlet Witch in the next Doctor Strange will be a good move, frankly I would have preferred it happening sooner but better late than never. I seriously hope they run into alternate universe versions of themselves and one of them is a more British-accented Doctor Strange who spouts phrases like "By the hoary hosts of Hoggoth!" and embarrasses the American Doctor Strange with how corny that sounds.

[Dhi]

Let's pretend Birds of Prey doesn't exist and focus on something rad instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfM7_JLk-84

[TheLaughingOne]

...
ha...
Ha
HAH
HAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6asweo

(seriously the people that made this series should be forced to sit down and read the entire series from the first issue to now and then write a massive missive on how they fucked up, and apologize)

[Dhi]

Hello, it's been like six months.

I resubscribed to DCU, and there's a lot going on. Stargirl is now two episodes in. Harley Quinn season 2 is currently underway. A month from now, Doom Patrol will resume with season 2. Superman: Red Son is expected in the very near future.

Stargirl is what I hoped it would be, a female superhero series in the vein of Disney family dramas. When it's corny, it means to be. The core message is nicely focused, and anyone familiar with Stargirl's history may see what they're building toward. Anyone else I think will be pleasantly surprised. There's no filler or meandering in the first two hours, and given the quite large rogues gallery established right away and bullet list of things to accomplish, it seems as though season 1 will be a tight story from beginning to end. That's probably the best way to do it, since the action is clearly expensive and intricate. I like it, and plan to continue.

Harley Quinn I haven't seen much of. The three episodes I've seen so far were very funny, it's just this continuous dancing around her abusive relationship with Joker I don't care for. I understand there was a kiss between Harley and Ivy a couple of weeks ago in season 2, and that unlike the recent She-Ra, it wasn't a goodbye wave just before the series finale credits. The fact that they're introducing this in the middle of the story, and probably exploring it further, has me interested. It's funny to think that a series pitched as a Venture Bros. style romp could have the character development and emotional weight to pull of a queer relationship the comic books have consistently fumbled and passed the buck on, and yet, when you approach these characters and stories with genuine intentions, there's no reason they can't be turned into something worthwhile.

Doom Patrol I've praised before. Season 2 seems to pick up without missing a beat and I'm looking forward to the new addition of Dorothy Spinner, a child who warps reality through her imaginary friends.

Red Son is an Elseworlds story exploring the idea that Superman crash lands behind the Iron Curtain of Stalin's Soviet Union rather than Kansas, and how the world might be different if DC's unstoppable force were on the other side of the Cold War. Superhero animation is not something that normally appeals to me, but this is a compelling story, so I plan to give it a watch.

In the meantime, I plan to explore some of the newer additions to the library like Naomi, House of Mystery, Catwoman 2018, and Female Furies, and no doubt emerge with a head full of superhero femslash ideas nobody will want to write with me.

[wander]

Yeah, Geoff Johns is involved in the show-running of Stargirl and he made that character up as a tribute to his deceased sister, so he'll make sure she gets the respect she deserves and nix any ham-fisted idpol so things focus more on the story and characters.

Also nice to see Brec getting more work.  :-)

As for Harley Quinn, I was a regular getting her solo series, so I like the show is heavily inspired by the comedic tone of that series. Yeah, her and Ivy were together in the comics, though it really shits on all the set-up they did with Kiteman and Ivy.

As a lad born in the '80s who watched tons of cartoons growing up in the mid 80s and through the 90s, I'm not even commenting on She-Ra and what they did to her.

[TheLaughingOne]

aint seen much one the others, but watched most of harley quinn and its pretty good. Only really focuses on her issues with joker for a couple episodes, then he has less a main seat and its more Her Issues that are caused by or include him. Its pretty funny, but its not Batman: The Animated Series. Very much a comedic series with some dark splashes and big bits of gore and murder. Characters are Vastly changed and exaggerated as well.

Im kinda disappointed in how they did

Freize...

But thats just me, he is one of my favorite characters. I had kind of hoped that he would basicly be Exactly like in the TAS which just causes everybody else to be majorly uncomfortable as while they are acting jokey and slapstick, here comes Freize all serious, deadpan, and monotone with an absolute focus. instead he is a more comedic style of how he normally is, and is only in like... 2 episodes, one of which he might as well just be a background character.

But all in all its not bad.

[Dhi]

Two episodes after the kiss, I don't feel invested in Harley/Ivy at all. The show is still very funny, but that relationship is clearly not going anywhere.

Now that I'm caught up on Harley Quinn, my standout character is definitely Batgirl. Briana Cuoco's line delivery is above and beyond with nuance. I'd like to see an episode where Ivy takes a back seat and Harley and Batgirl have an adventure together, just the sisters Cuoco in simpatico.

[TheLaughingOne]

Yeah. The whole darkseid thing just... ... yeah...
I liked how they teased things between them up til there in the series.. but then that and... ... yeah. its kinda killed interest.

that said, king shark is one of my favorites. which makes it funny seeing him in harley, then compared to him in justice league dark (where he dated John Constantine)

[Dhi]

Stargirl episode 4 released yesterday, and Yvette Monreal joined the team as Wildcat. I love the rapport between Stargirl and Wildcat. They're great together. All of the episodes so far have been fantastic.

Dragon King made a short appearance, along with teasers for villains

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Shade, Fiddler, and Shiv.

I've heard there's something being teased in Marvel shows too, for Wolverine. Does anyone know more about that?

[CaptainNexus616]

Not really relevant to anything NEW but I'm sure some of the people who watched the Netflix shows can appreciate this lol

https://youtu.be/d8tmp0AJxds

[Dhi]

After, gosh, 8 months, there's a new Wonder Woman 84 trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW2E2Fnh52w

This one is pretty much all about Cheetah. It seems like the concern over a lack of Cheetah leaks up to this point was unwarranted, she looks fine.

[TheLaughingOne]

i still need to get off my butt and watch the first wonder woman movie..

but that looks good!

[CaptainNexus616]

The news is coming in....Chadwick Boseman known to many on this thread as the Black Panther has died after a four year battle with colon cancer....

[Skynet]

So ummm, has anyone here seen Wonder Woman 1984? A lot of reviews are mixed, but figured I'd like to hear from those who saw it.

[Dhi]

WW84 was at times too on the nose for my sensibilities, and didn't think very highly of my intelligence as a viewer- but very few superhero movies do, and so very few get a second watch. I would guess that its naivete is hitting the wrong nerve with a lot of jaded audiences just trying to survive 2020. It is different from all the other spandex punchy movies out there, and not merely because it continues to be female-positive and value little girls. If there's any appetite whatsoever for spandex punchy movies 10 or 20 years from now, when we're not all screaming internally, I think WW84 will age better than most.

[Dhi]

The Snyder Cut is quite a lot better than Whedon's Justice League. I was concerned going into it that the recut would add a lot of gratuitous violence, but what was actually added was heart. Now I'm sad Ray Fisher will not be returning as Cyborg, because now he and Flash are full characters with strong arcs.

The 4 hour run time is, um, intimidating, and I think that plus general exhaustion with the DC brand is going to keep a lot of people from seeing it. The movie has five or six chapter cuts, though, which sounds pretentious but genuinely helps to break it up into digestible portions. I did not have any trouble getting through it, unlike the shorter Whedon Justice League.

[TheSithChicken]

I made it 1 hour and 45 minutes in the Snyder Cut before I started arguing the merits of lobotomizing myself with a spoon rather than watch any more of that soulless, mindless drek. It managed to replace Batman vs Superman as the worst DCEU movie and it did so by orders of magnitude. Snyder should apologize to Whedon for what he did to his movie and I hated Justice League to begin with.

[Dhi]

Something that was missing from Whedon's Justice League, which I felt was present in the Snyder Cut, is space to define the characters. Cyborg and Flash are given a lot more screen time, and Flash is no longer pushed into a comic relief role. There are some Flash lines and situations that still aspire to inject a little levity, but the tonally deaf recuts like Flash announcing he's hungry or falling on Wonder Woman while trying not to touch her are gone.

The villain is given enough depth to identify his motivations, and Darkseid's inner circle is fleshed out. We see DeSaad and Granny Goodness briefly, and giving Steppenwolf context and a Sisyphean struggle for redemption helps to distinguish him as a character with agency rather than a mean alien bug force for the heroes to splat.

Some of the very off-putting scenes, like Batman randomly committing terrorism so the parademons will "smell the fear," and every scene with the unfathomable Russian family, are gone. Replacing those with screen time for Cyborg and Flash to develop them as characters, and I appreciated that. I felt more invested in these characters trying to overcome their limitations than in a random family constantly on the cusp of danger.

That exploration of character is certainly easier to do with a run time of 4 hours, but there must have been a better way to shorten it than Whedon's reductive reinvention of Justice League as essentially a soulless grimdark Avengers copy. It's clear now Justice League was its own thing, and trying to force it into an Avengers-shaped hole didn't work. Unfortunately, it's too late now. The 4 hour cut is destined to be seen by comparatively few and the DCEU is already toast.

I'm glad I got to see it as it was intended, but now that I have, I think it's time to move on. There's no demand for this sixteen part, ten year super-movie cinematic universe stuff anymore. DC seems inclined to abandon the cinematic universe thing now and approach each new movie as its own thing with small nods to other in-universe characters. That sounds perfect to me.

[TheLaughingOne]

Im with Dhi on the end of major multi film things, infinity wars and end games kinda burned me out on mcu stuff, both had good moments but just felt dragged and... meh. Especially things like hulks "Resolution" were just disappointing.

That said ive never been much a fan of the dc films, specially with snyder, who has had few films ive really liked, and many ive had issues with. That said i am glad fans have gotten something they can like, raimi just seems like the wrong person to take over when he had to go, its like having hr geiger take over the art on a kids story book, whiplash on the levels of gwen stacy.

Id like to see how deadpool films continue, specially if they are merged into rest of MCU... cause... well. Tonal shifts and all.

Will have to just wait and see how things shake out with all the things that have gone on in both things.

That said, there at least seems like ther is room for a future. Its not like they went and star warsed it into the ground...

[Deamonbane]

Something that was missing from Whedon's Justice League, which I felt was present in the Snyder Cut, is space to define the characters.

Some spoilers ahead.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Something that was missing from Whedon's Justice League, which I felt was present in the Snyder Cut, is space to define the characters.
[/quote]Therein lies the rub that is the biggest problem with the Warner Bros. attempt at replicating the success of the Avengers. They wanted to jump in make the the big assemble cast film right off the bat. By the time that we got to the first Avengers film, we'd already seen full introductions to four of the main characters (Hulk, Iron Man, Thor and Captain America) as well as the main villain (Loki). Most of the introductions and character definitions have already been drive through, which means that we have the time to delve into some of the other characters and hint at some other people coming in along the road.

By the time that Justice League came out, we'd only seen introductions to three of the main characters (and Batman's intro was split between Superman and Lex Luthor, since that was kind of the first assemble too?), split attention over to a film that had nothing to do with JL (Suicide Squad) and then jumped right in with no introduction for the main villain and half the JL crew. So they needed to jam three intros (Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg) and resolve the situation of Superman being... you know dead, all into the first act while still trying to build up for the main villain that they'll be battling. And then they complained about the film being too long and too much in the style of the guy that they hired to direct it and proceeded to bring in the guy that was making their rivals' movies to make their film more palatable. I can honestly understand why Affleck quit on Batman, because I don't know who's on the Warner Bros. film board, but everyone needs to be fired.

[Azuresun]

I'm glad I got to see it as it was intended, but now that I have, I think it's time to move on. There's no demand for this sixteen part, ten year super-movie cinematic universe stuff anymore. DC seems inclined to abandon the cinematic universe thing now and approach each new movie as its own thing with small nods to other in-universe characters. That sounds perfect to me.

The cinematic universe thing might have been lightning in a bottle, but I think most of the other pretenders (the DCCU, the Dark Universe, Ghostbusters, etc) could have worked if they'd just had the patience that Marvel had--any of the pre-Avengers Marvel movies stand alone just fine, they don't rush into being a big epic crossover. It kind of worked with the Monsterverse, but that was because big multi-character throwdowns were already a proud tradition for Godzilla.

[Sasquatch421]

I made it 1 hour and 45 minutes in the Snyder Cut before I started arguing the merits of lobotomizing myself with a spoon rather than watch any more of that soulless, mindless drek. It managed to replace Batman vs Superman as the worst DCEU movie and it did so by orders of magnitude. Snyder should apologize to Whedon for what he did to his movie and I hated Justice League to begin with.

Actually the last thing I remember from the Snyder Cut was the fight with Superman, before I fell asleep.... I'm hesitant on retrying to watch it as the run time takes a bite out of my days...

[TheSithChicken]

Actually the last thing I remember from the Snyder Cut was the fight with Superman, before I fell asleep.... I'm hesitant on retrying to watch it as the run time takes a bite out of my days...

Don't. There are better ways to spend your time.

[Dhi]

It's broken up into a number of discrete chapters which are clearly marked in HBO Max, so you don't have to make an afternoon of it at all.