WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[wander]

I was really hoping for the Lion to come back, though now we have Codex Dark Angels, which he could have been included in, still no Lion though.

[greenknight]

I was really hoping for the Lion to come back, though now we have Codex Dark Angels, which he could have been included in, still no Lion though.

Cypher's got to re-forge his sword or some jibber-jabber before that can happen, right?

[Idej]

I have a third of my Aeldari army purchased!!!  None assembled yet, but will be starting Tuesday!!!

[TerribleTira]

I've always found the aesthetic of 40k minis to be a turn off. The Space Marines are ridiculously clunky looking for sci-fi. Although the other races seem ok. but overall, I feel that 40k is overrated

[Arkaniel]

Lore wise, it is fitting. All human technology is... not quite steam punkish, but a hogwash or salvaged, forgotten technology and partially ‘magical’ in nature, so to speak. That doesn’t take away that several of the space marine armour look terrible and that most vehicles are just plain ugly.

The older tech variants, like deimos pattern vehicles and contemptors, as well as mk III armour line looks pretty good in my opinion.

[wander]

Legit, I kinda prefer playing Bolt Action now to 40k, though 40k gets me in my nostalgia bone back from when I followed it at the end of 2nd edition and the kickoff of 3rd and the Dark Eldar and SoB were new armies, Necrons had just an article in White Dwarf and Tau weren't invented yet. That was near 20 years ago now and I'm glad to have come back in the hobby as 8th edition has been pretty great overall.

As for aesthetics, Dark Eldar and Skitarii are two of my faves on sheer looks alone. SoB too, though everyone loves them.
I'd say the Space Marines are just too vanilla and overcovered with them being the posterboys for 40k, which was part of the reason when I was looking for a tough army, I went with Death Guard, as they have the benefits of being SMs though look different and unique in comparison. Though my first Codex in 3rd edition was the Dark Angel one and out of all the Loyalists, they have a special place in my heart and even they look unique with their monk robes over their armour and neat lore.



Warhammer Community has announced that Adeptus Custodes models and the Codex will be up for preorder next week, so the preorders go live on the 20th January, so we could have them released as early as the 27th!

Everyone get ready to run as the hype-train is coming in quicker than I could dream of!  XD

[wander]

Just a few days until Adeptus Custodes hits in with their codex and new boxed units. :)

I'm currently debating on Relic and Warlord Trait for my Shield-Captain (and whether to go basic, Allarus or Jetbike for him!).

The Relics I like;
The Raiment of Sorrows (roll a d6 when a custodian is slain near the bearer, on a 4+ they get a free shot/attack before being removed).
Eagle Eyes pumps up the Shield-Cap to get a 3++ save. If I did pump in the points for a Jetbike, the Auric Aquilas does that and gives rerolls to failed charges.
Auric Shackles give -1 attack to enemy characters near to them and slain warlord gives +d3 VPs, which is pretty juicy.
And if I did go Allarus, I could always grab the Obliteratum, which is an S10 -4ap d3 dmg version of the Allarus grenade launcher (so 12" assault d3).

The two Warlord Traits I'm undecided on are 'Superior Creation' which is a 5+ FNP or 'Radiant Mantle' which gives a -1 to hit buff.
Anyone good enough at Mathhammer to tell which would be better? Rolling multiple 5+ FNPs sucks for large damage weapons, though skipping wounds is nice, however -1 to hit means less attacks happen to get through, though it's a real minor buff. Combos nicely with the Vexilla Magnifica banner weilder (which is also a -1 to hit buff in a 6" bubble), however with such a hyper elitey army, I'm lax to restrict my movement keeping those two characters together. Unless I be a dick and announce my Vexilla Magnifica bearer is my Warlord...  ::)



I haven't mentioned the Vexilla banner Relic that Denys the Witch and also the Warlord trait that does the same as I usually fight Tau more often than not, so no worries about needing to defend vs. Psykers in most games.

[Andol]

Just a few days until Adeptus Custodes hits in with their codex and new boxed units. :)

I'm currently debating on Relic and Warlord Trait for my Shield-Captain (and whether to go basic, Allarus or Jetbike for him!).

The Relics I like;
The Raiment of Sorrows (roll a d6 when a custodian is slain near the bearer, on a 4+ they get a free shot/attack before being removed).
Eagle Eyes pumps up the Shield-Cap to get a 3++ save. If I did pump in the points for a Jetbike, the Auric Aquilas does that and gives rerolls to failed charges.
Auric Shackles give -1 attack to enemy characters near to them and slain warlord gives +d3 VPs, which is pretty juicy.
And if I did go Allarus, I could always grab the Obliteratum, which is an S10 -4ap d3 dmg version of the Allarus grenade launcher (so 12" assault d3).

The two Warlord Traits I'm undecided on are 'Superior Creation' which is a 5+ FNP or 'Radiant Mantle' which gives a -1 to hit buff.
Anyone good enough at Mathhammer to tell which would be better? Rolling multiple 5+ FNPs sucks for large damage weapons, though skipping wounds is nice, however -1 to hit means less attacks happen to get through, though it's a real minor buff. Combos nicely with the Vexilla Magnifica banner weilder (which is also a -1 to hit buff in a 6" bubble), however with such a hyper elitey army, I'm lax to restrict my movement keeping those two characters together. Unless I be a dick and announce my Vexilla Magnifica bearer is my Warlord...  ::)



I haven't mentioned the Vexilla banner Relic that Denys the Witch and also the Warlord trait that does the same as I usually fight Tau more often than not, so no worries about needing to defend vs. Psykers in most games.

Hey Wandering is Warhammer 40000 still pretty much as complex as the orginial and good version of Warhammer Fantasy was. XD Never been able to see inside one of the codexs since I don't make much on this end, and so I have reserve any money I put towards minis on my Skaven Army I am building XD

[TheLaughingOne]

I finally managed to finish a full game with a friend, and even though i lost (due to bad planning and threat assessment) it was close, and fucking fun as hell. almost got a big turn around when i destroyed his troop transport and he rolled an explosion which in a single go wiped out nearly 2/3rds of his forces! it was close, but his remaining forces were pretty heavy and unharmed, while mine were pretty well worn and few. Still, awesome damn game and fun as hell. some issues with wording and not exactly clear rules (like, can only Troop choices capture objectives? why couldnt an elite infantry guy, like sternguard or what not else capture) but we worked things out well enough to satisfaction.

And i would say the rules are pretty simple honestly, least the in action ones. this is my first time really playing warhammer (i've played other games, but they were kinda jumbles) and i found i learned the system pretty quick and easily!

[HairyHeretic]

Seen this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPbXOHZW8co

Not quite 40k, but still.

Also, this

https://www.warhammer-community.com/writeforblacklibrary/

I'm tempted to give that one a try :)

[TheGlyphstone]

Meh. I see nothing about them paying for your work, so Ill keep writing short stories for people who do pay me.

[Andol]

True that...  I got miniatures to paint and folks to post for anyway XD

[Arkaniel]

I finally managed to finish a full game with a friend, and even though i lost (due to bad planning and threat assessment) it was close, and fucking fun as hell. almost got a big turn around when i destroyed his troop transport and he rolled an explosion which in a single go wiped out nearly 2/3rds of his forces! it was close, but his remaining forces were pretty heavy and unharmed, while mine were pretty well worn and few. Still, awesome damn game and fun as hell. some issues with wording and not exactly clear rules (like, can only Troop choices capture objectives? why couldnt an elite infantry guy, like sternguard or what not else capture) but we worked things out well enough to satisfaction.

And i would say the rules are pretty simple honestly, least the in action ones. this is my first time really playing warhammer (i've played other games, but they were kinda jumbles) and i found i learned the system pretty quick and easily!

All units can claim objectives, but troops get the advantage with being objective secured rule. If there are no troops involved, who ever haS the most models on/near the objective, claims it. If there are troops involved, the one with the most troop units on the objective, wins the objective. So, a single troop model, surrounded by a dozen elites, means the troop has the objective.

[TheLaughingOne]

Thats what i argued. But nothing really spelled it clearly to other dudes satisfaction. He wad reading the astra militarium book which says if using spearhead detachments leman russ get the defenders of humanity (the bonus against being outnumbered) trait, and he reads it as thats the only time other units aside from troops can capture objectives.

This i countered with "boots on the ground" which excludes flyer role units from capturing objectives. It makes no mention that vehicles or other units cant. But that wasnt enough for him.  Which ended moot as blood angels defenders of humanity makes it so even going by his version all my units can capture.

So yeah. One thing im not keen on is GW not being clear in all their rules and what not.

[wander]

Thats what i argued. But nothing really spelled it clearly to other dudes satisfaction. He wad reading the astra militarium book which says if using spearhead detachments leman russ get the defenders of humanity (the bonus against being outnumbered) trait, and he reads it as thats the only time other units aside from troops can capture objectives.

This i countered with "boots on the ground" which excludes flyer role units from capturing objectives. It makes no mention that vehicles or other units cant. But that wasnt enough for him.  Which ended moot as blood angels defenders of humanity makes it so even going by his version all my units can capture.

Sounds like they're being That Guy, as they're in the wrong.

As said above, only Flyers cannot claim objectives. Troops have Objective Secured which means if they are within 3" they automatically hold it (and if opposing troops are that close, the one who has more numbers gets it). Otherwise anyone not a Flyer can claim an objective.

For example if my Helbrutes are sat on one, it's Elite though still claims it. However if just one of your tactical marines gets in that 3", even though it's outnumbered 2:1, because your model is a Troop, they now will hold it unless I can get my Troop Plague Marines to reclaim (or the Helbrutes kill your tac marine).

Hey Wandering is Warhammer 40000 still pretty much as complex as the orginial and good version of Warhammer Fantasy was.

Tough call to really say. It's still more complex than Age of Sigmar is, though it's also been simplified down a bit too, though honestly I think was shifted overall was a good thing, as 7th edition 40k was a fucking overcomplicated broken mess come the end of it's run and needed an overhaul and it's playing 8th edition that you can really see that, the new edition is really fun and still has elements of challenge to it and a good rule set. I've also never actually played Warhammer Fantasy, just some Age of Sigmar skirmish, so I have no real grasp on what the rules were like back then for it.



Wander's Adeptus Custodes update;

Firstly, on the subject of Objective Secured, seems that pretty much all of the Custodes has it, so I can run a solo Termie or Jetbike to take a seat on an objective and be pretty chill if no Troops are around.  ;D

Here's a few Power 50 Lists I'm thinking over for the Custodes for local Geedub League play, thanks to reviews showing datafiles (no real confirmed points yet though).

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Vanguard List 1;
HQ;
Shield-Captain (7)
Elites;
Vexillus Praetor (6)
squad of 3x Wardens (10)
Contemptor Dreadnought (10)
Troops;
two squads of 3x Custodians (8+8 = 16)
1 Power left to upgrade Cap or Vexilla with Allarus armour

Vanguard List 2;
Shield-Captain (7)
Vexillus Praetor (6)
Contemptor Dreadnought (10)
squad of 3x Allarus Terminators (13)
choice of either; squad of x4 Wardens or squad of x5 Custodians (14)

Vanguard List 3;
Allarus Termy Shield-Captain (8)
Allarus Termy Vexillus Praetor (7)
Contemptor Dreadnought (10)
squad of x3 Wardens (10)
squad of x3 Vertus Praetor Jetbikes (15)

Land Raider Patrol List;
Shield-Captain (7)
Vexillus Praetor (6)
two squads of x3 Custodians (8+8 = 16)
Venerable Land Raider (21)

[TheLaughingOne]

Sounds like they're being That Guy, as they're in the wrong.

As said above, only Flyers cannot claim objectives. Troops have Objective Secured which means if they are within 3" they automatically hold it (and if opposing troops are that close, the one who has more numbers gets it). Otherwise anyone not a Flyer can claim an objective.

For example if my Helbrutes are sat on one, it's Elite though still claims it. However if just one of your tactical marines gets in that 3", even though it's outnumbered 2:1, because your model is a Troop, they now will hold it unless I can get my Troop Plague Marines to reclaim (or the Helbrutes kill your tac marine).

Yeah, but i can kinda understand where he comes from... kinda. Youd think as a former marine he would get a tank or something like can hold mission critical areas as well as everybody else.. but nothing ive found in the book really says vehicles or monsters or whatever can, or cant, hold objectives. So in his mind he is right, as he has "proof" (which if you take a moment to read carefully shows that im right...) that says it his way.

... to be fair we were both pretty damn drunk at the time as well, so there was that complication.

[wander]

Well, hey... You know for next time now at least, cos there's gonna be more games, right?  :-)

Also, you know now if other rules questions come up, we can answer them here in this thread. ^^

So, when I get the Custodes codex tomorrow I'm gonna be attempting at making a 1k list using points. In the meantime though, I'm really pondering on what Vanguard Detachment I'd take (because yay, 4CPs). If I wanted to take a Battallion for 6 CPs, I could with a tax of 38 Power, then I'd have 12 Power left for... Not much. I mean I could do a list like this;

2 x Allarus Shield-Captains (16 Power)
Contemptor Dreadnought (10 Power)
3 squads of 3x Custodians (24 Power)

Though it's a bit vanilla, even if I do get +2CPs out of it. The Vanguards gimme the important anti-tank of a Kheres Dreadnought still and other cool things. I'm kinda liking the sight of the Jetbike one, especially if I can use the Concussion Grenade strategem with the Allarus armoured Shield-Captain and Vexillus banner dood.

[HairyHeretic]

Meh. I see nothing about them paying for your work, so Ill keep writing short stories for people who do pay me.

I'd like to hope if they accepted your idea and got you to write a full and proper story, that there would be payment at the end of it :)

[TheGlyphstone]

I'd like to hope if they accepted your idea and got you to write a full and proper story, that there would be payment at the end of it :)

Hope, sure. But considering the existing reputation of GW's legal department, I don't trust them further than I can throw a Baneblade. Just by submitting the proposal sketch, you are permanently giving them publishing rights over your story, so they don't have to pay you a cent.

[Andol]

Tough call to really say. It's still more complex than Age of Sigmar is, though it's also been simplified down a bit too, though honestly I think was shifted overall was a good thing, as 7th edition 40k was a fucking overcomplicated broken mess come the end of it's run and needed an overhaul and it's playing 8th edition that you can really see that, the new edition is really fun and still has elements of challenge to it and a good rule set. I've also never actually played Warhammer Fantasy, just some Age of Sigmar skirmish, so I have no real grasp on what the rules were like back then for it.

The reason I asked is you mentioned something about a S10... which in Fantasy terms means someone is knocking off heads with a Strength 10 melee... such as the Tomb Kings (aka Fantasy version of Nercorans.) tended to do or some of the stronger magical weapons if they didn't have a Heroic Killing Blow (Insta death on anything if you score that natural six... and I mean anything). The last edition of Warhammer Fantasy was the 8th edition and I only ever got to play it once, and found it tedious if only because of lack of practice, but it wasn't hard.

I will give one thing to Age of Sigmar is that it is easy enough I am more worried about unit combos and battle conditions/tactics than trying to remember some tiny rule on page 200 something or another LOL... XD

[greenknight]

Meh. I see nothing about them paying for your work, so Ill keep writing short stories for people who do pay me.

But you get exposure... ::)

By the terms of submission, it appears that GW owns the work even if they choose not to publish it. Ummm, no.

[wander]

The reason I asked is you mentioned something about a S10... which in Fantasy terms means someone is knocking off heads with a Strength 10 melee... such as the Tomb Kings (aka Fantasy version of Nercorans.) tended to do or some of the stronger magical weapons if they didn't have a Heroic Killing Blow (Insta death on anything if you score that natural six... and I mean anything). The last edition of Warhammer Fantasy was the 8th edition and I only ever got to play it once, and found it tedious if only because of lack of practice, but it wasn't hard.

I will give one thing to Age of Sigmar is that it is easy enough I am more worried about unit combos and battle conditions/tactics than trying to remember some tiny rule on page 200 something or another LOL... XD

In 40k 8th edition, S and T work a bit more simply now. Basically if they're equal it's 4+ to wound, if S is greater it's 3+, if S is doubled it's 2+. If T is higher it's 5+, if T is doubled it's 6+.

On the Str10 thing;

the Obliteratum, which is an S10 -4ap d3 dmg version of the Allarus grenade launcher (so 12" assault d3).

So with the codex in my hands as we speak, the Obliteratum is actually Assault 1, which you'd think would be kinda lame as it's a single shot weapon and what if you miss, though the BS of a Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armour is 2+ with reroll 1s, so it's gonna hit. S10 is gonna wound most vehicles on 3+ and pretty much anyone on foot (including tough as balls Plague Marines) are getting wounded on 2+.
Also, -4ap is fucking cheesy af. That means unless the target has an invulnerable the best they're saving on is a 6+ and for that they needed a 2+ save to begin with.
So for most things you're talking 2+ to hit, reroll 1s, 2+ to wound and zero save. Then it happens to do d3 wounds, which whilst not too scary for a vehicle, is naughty at an MEQ level.

It's basically a grenade launcher that lobs anti-matter grenades in splinterglass casing from it's description in the Relic section. You're torn apart at the molecular level when the anti-matter pops out of the razor sharp glass shards cutting monomolecularly through the target leaving absolutely zero trace of anything behind.

The basic Shield-Captain in Allarus armour and equipped with it's guardian spear and grenade launcher is 142pts, which is pretty decent/cheap tbh for what you get. Especially because Relics (like the aforementioned Obliteratum) are free to equip.

[HairyHeretic]

By the terms of submission, it appears that GW owns the work even if they choose not to publish it. Ummm, no.

Where are you seeing that? I think I must have missed it.

[Andol]

In 40k 8th edition, S and T work a bit more simply now. Basically if they're equal it's 4+ to wound, if S is greater it's 3+, if S is doubled it's 2+. If T is higher it's 5+, if T is doubled it's 6+.

On the Str10 thing;
So with the codex in my hands as we speak, the Obliteratum is actually Assault 1, which you'd think would be kinda lame as it's a single shot weapon and what if you miss, though the BS of a Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armour is 2+ with reroll 1s, so it's gonna hit. S10 is gonna wound most vehicles on 3+ and pretty much anyone on foot (including tough as balls Plague Marines) are getting wounded on 2+.
Also, -4ap is fucking cheesy af. That means unless the target has an invulnerable the best they're saving on is a 6+ and for that they needed a 2+ save to begin with.
So for most things you're talking 2+ to hit, reroll 1s, 2+ to wound and zero save. Then it happens to do d3 wounds, which whilst not too scary for a vehicle, is naughty at an MEQ level.

It's basically a grenade launcher that lobs anti-matter grenades in splinterglass casing from it's description in the Relic section. You're torn apart at the molecular level when the anti-matter pops out of the razor sharp glass shards cutting monomolecularly through the target leaving absolutely zero trace of anything behind.

The basic Shield-Captain in Allarus armour and equipped with it's guardian spear and grenade launcher is 142pts, which is pretty decent/cheap tbh for what you get. Especially because Relics (like the aforementioned Obliteratum) are free to equip.

Yeah pretty much sounds like Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition. S and T are a +4 to wound there if they are the same as well. Still probably plenty of difference, but that is probably just to make one more Fantasy and one more Sci-fi... since historically 40k was made off one of the makers of Fantasy's desire to throw a bunch of the factions in space for a game that they didn't expect to go as far as did and surpass their flagship game XD

[greenknight]

Where are you seeing that? I think I must have missed it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/writeforblacklibraryterms/

Who owns the ideas that I submit to you?
For legal reasons, please be aware that by making a submission to Games Workshop you are agreeing to assign all rights in your submission to Games Workshop. This means that we will have the exclusive right to use your submission for any purpose in the future. If for any reason you are prevented or restricted at law from assigning to Games Workshop any of the intellectual property rights in your submission, you agree to grant to Games Workshop a sole and exclusive, worldwide, royalty free, irrevocable licence in perpetuity which enables GW to use your submission for any purpose.

(Emphasis mine)

Just because they say

What happens to my submission if I am not successful?

Any submission which Black Library decides it is unable to use will be permanently deleted from its records.

I wouldn't trust they couldn't recover it if push came to shove, like you strip their IP out and republish elsewhere.