The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

Started by Mathim, November 18, 2014, 02:35:50 PM

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deathspell

Thankfully Punisher still has a new season coming out in a few weeks.
The darkness had arranged itself into something that resembled intent.

Meade

Quote from: Neysha on January 03, 2019, 10:06:20 AM
I'm not big on monopolies... but there is a convenience factor in many ways in not having fifteen different services to pay subscriptions to.

I totally agree. It's getting a bit much to manage the different ones ... And half the time I'll be watching one and not even using another in the same month, so I end up paying for a service I don't use.  ::)

Mathim

Quote from: Neysha on January 03, 2019, 10:06:20 AM
At least Thanos stopped by killing only half.

Disney just had to outdo them.   :-(

:P

Though honestly I'm not sure how DareDevil would've proceeded with Kingpin as a villain. Season Three was so brilliant and then I feel they kinda threw it all away in the very entertaining climax
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
by having Wilson Fisk literally end up back in prison where he was in the beginning. They had spent the entire season carefully crafting a brilliant storyline where someone as infamous as Wilson Fisk could actually be released after the crimes he committed. Then it was kinda just all thrown away by tossing him back in the clink instead of just escaping. Plus it was awkward seeing Kingpin get beat down by DareDevil again and then weirdly bargain the terms of his imprisonment while on his knees and all bloodied up.

But yeah, I honestly am sad that they seem to be on the path of cancelling all of the Netflix shows. I certainly am not interested in purchasing Disney's new stream service. I cut the cord because I don't want to pay for five hundred channels I don't need. I'm not going to support fifteen different streaming services (Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, Youtube, Twitch, CBS All Access, HBO2G0, and whatever Disney Stream will be) because then streaming TV will be just as lame and bad and more expensive then cable TV. I hope Disney Stream crashes and burns along with the other ones proposed by networks. I'm not big on monopolies... but there is a convenience factor in many ways in not having fifteen different services to pay subscriptions to.

The only conceivable way a Disney streaming service would be worth it is if EVERY scrap of content with their name on it is available. Every old animated show, every film from the early and mid-20th century, all the newer stuff, ALL of it, at our fingertips. But given that's not going to be the case, screw 'em. And screw WB for seemingly wanting to make Young Justice season 3 only available on their streaming service.


Anyone see Aquaman yet? I won some free IMAX tickets so I saw it (wouldn't have been willing to shell out cash for it with DC's track record) with a friend and was pleasantly surprised. I wouldn't have seen it for an IMAX ticket price but I'm glad that's the venue it was in, as it really helped given the grand scale of things like huge crashing waves, and the titanic underwater Lord of the Rings Return of the King style war in the end, complete with colossal sea monsters.

Momoa isn't that competent as a lead but the supporting cast helps a lot, and given how different Arthur Curry is in this incarnation, it does work in Momoa's favor. Amber Heard is at the top of her game here (when she has her hair tied back tightly in one scene, I almost mistook her for Scarlett Johansson) and plays an extremely well-developed and relevant deuteragonist who can hold her own and, while is still unmistakably there to provide arm candy for Aquaman, still kicks a lot of ass and plays an even more important role in many ways than Aquaman. If I had one wish, I'd like for her to have had her own secondary antagonist to go up against while Aquaman faced off with Ocean Master. I am definitely liking this trend of supporting female heroes who aren't just relegated to being background characters. Peggy Carter definitely set off a slow but growing trend and while I haven't seen Wonder Woman yet, others like Gamora and Wasp are helping keep up the momentum as well.
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ppr128sol

To be fair, Patrick Wilson and Willem Dafoe are going to make anyone look good. I was just amused with not!theKraken being Julie Andrews.

I think WB have realised that the grounded and gritty tone works well for Batman for a reason, and that other heroes need their own tone. Aquaman and Wonder Woman were pretty solid- not the heights of an Iron Man, Winter Soldier, or Civil War- but a substantial improvement over the Snyder line.

Be interesting to see Shazam.
Well. Through the crucible for the moment. Let's see where this goes?

Mathim

Quote from: ppr128sol on January 12, 2019, 06:03:42 AM
To be fair, Patrick Wilson and Willem Dafoe are going to make anyone look good. I was just amused with not!theKraken being Julie Andrews.

I think WB have realised that the grounded and gritty tone works well for Batman for a reason, and that other heroes need their own tone. Aquaman and Wonder Woman were pretty solid- not the heights of an Iron Man, Winter Soldier, or Civil War- but a substantial improvement over the Snyder line.

Be interesting to see Shazam.

They seem to use drab backgrounds and environments strategically but are definitely easing up on the dark stuff which is good. Yes, it works best for Batman but it's not entirely out of the question for other heroes, it just has to be done right. They're improving, to be sure, pretty late in the game, and with Shazam I don't really get the vibe that they're going dark at all so they might be giving it up altogether to try and copy Marvel more closely like they should have tried from the start.
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

CaptainNexus616

So far with all the hate I'm seeing around Captain Marvel trailers I'm worried Marvel may hit a serious pothole on the road to Endgame.

I just hope this movie does like the past ones and succeeds where the trailers fail. I'd rather not have the same character be a big source of hate in both the movies AND comics.
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TheGlyphstone

There is a fair bit of buzz about Captain Marvel, but for all the apparent Internet hate, it's also in the top 3 Fandago MCU presales: https://www.cbr.com/captain-marvel-fandango-top-mcu-pre-sellers/

Only Black Panther and Infinity War got more advance tickets purchased, so it's going to have an excellent opening day at least.

ppr128sol

A lot of that hate is being driven by a certain section of the internet that is raging about "SJW" messaging and blah blah blah. This intersects with a group from the same place who are DC partisans, either out of contrarianism since the MCU is the big one, or because they believe Disney is buying out reviewers.

They tried to tank Black Panther, to no avail. I rather doubt they'll get far here either.
Well. Through the crucible for the moment. Let's see where this goes?

Mathim

I hate the toxic SJW vs. anti-SJW climate and how it harms discussion about things I enjoy. It's probably the main reason they shut down the imdb.com forums.

The first Captain Marvel trailer was a little lackluster, but I loved the second one, especially that shot at the end where she's fully revved up, and sporting that flaming mohawk like one version of her from the comics. So awesome. Hard to believe it's only two more months away.
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

Mathim

Spider-Man Far From Home Trailer Time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XW1Ygatsz4


I'll put my thoughts in spoilers for anyone who happens not to ever watch trailers like a certain co-worker of mine, but first, did anyone else notice that the pop song they play during it is the same one Scott Lang is pretending to be drumming to on Rock Band or whatever at the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp when the FBI is racing back to his house to bust him for breaking his house arrest?
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
So it looks as though Nick Fury has taken over Tony Stark's role as mentor, which makes me think he's probably going to die in Endgame, though Happy is still around so he and Pepper might still be using the Stark fortune to support him. I just kind of wish SHIELD hadn't fallen so hard way back in Winter Soldier so this kind of thing had to wait this long to make a comeback. Hell, even the Helicarrier rescue in Age of Ultron made no sense given SHIELD's fugitive status.

Also Mysterio would seem to be either a hero this time around and might want to hog all the glory which makes him an enemy of Spidey, OR more likely, he's doing a false flag sort of publicity thing where he stages these disasters and movie monsters (made up of 3 out of the four elements, curiously) and defeats them to gain a reputation or merely to distract them so he can rob places while people in the area are fleeing for their lives. So it feels like kind of a mix of Syndrome from the Incredibles and his Omnidroid, and the guys from Now You See Me.
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

Azuresun

#3910
Quote from: Mathim on January 07, 2019, 10:10:46 AM
Anyone see Aquaman yet? I won some free IMAX tickets so I saw it (wouldn't have been willing to shell out cash for it with DC's track record) with a friend and was pleasantly surprised. I wouldn't have seen it for an IMAX ticket price but I'm glad that's the venue it was in, as it really helped given the grand scale of things like huge crashing waves, and the titanic underwater Lord of the Rings Return of the King style war in the end, complete with colossal sea monsters.

I really enjoyed it. It's not ambitious, but it's well executed, vibrant and fun, with actors who are clearly having fun. It's the right way to handle a kinda daft concept like Aquaman--just own all the over-the-top stuff, and don't act embarrassed about the story you're telling. And the direction especially was really good--the final battle could have turned into a incomprehensible lightshow, but it's always clear who's where and doing what. I'd rate it about equal to Wonder Woman--it's less ambitious, but doesn't trip over its shoelaces in the last act like I felt WW did.

Makes me really hopeful for Shazam.

Quote from: Mathim on January 14, 2019, 08:43:12 AM
I hate the toxic SJW vs. anti-SJW climate and how it harms discussion about things I enjoy. It's probably the main reason they shut down the imdb.com forums.

Same here. It's just weird to see how suspicious and twitchy some people get--of course they're pushing the "strong woman" angle in the marketing, it's an easy way to tell people what makes it different from other superhero movies, much like they pushed the "teen hero" angle for Spiderman and the "crime caper" angle for Ant-Man. I can't even figure out exactly what the Anti-SJW's are so terrified of--near as I can tell, pushing for diverse casting might sometimes possibly result in movies not being as good as they could have been (unless the flop was down to completely unrelated factors). In the end, it will be good or bad based on script, performances and directing. The lead character being female is nice to see in a "sheesh, about time!" way, but tells us nothing either way about quality.


TheGlyphstone

Apparently people think the giant elementals are old, very obscure Spidey villains, or at least references to them.

QuoteActually, someone pointed out that they might still be Sandman, Hydro-Man and Molten Man. The trailer has a few easter eggs: when the water elemental shows up, there's a boat with the number "ASM 212", and Amazing Spider-Man 212 was the first appearance of that character. Later, when we see the fire elemental, there's a car with the license plate 28SEP65, and Molten Man first appeared in Amazing spider-man number 28, in September 65. And when the Earth elemental shows up, there's a car with license plate number ASM 463, and Sandman showed up in ASM number 4, in 1963. (Man, some fans have good eyes. There's screenshots, though.)

Seems like a bit much coincidence.

Whether Mysterio is secretly controlling them or creating them is another question.

TheSithChicken

Quote from: Azuresun on January 16, 2019, 10:08:47 AM
My first thought was to wonder if the Absorbing Man was returning after last being seen in Ang Lee's Hulk.

Absorbing Man was actually last seen in Agents of Shield and last referenced in Daredevil.

Mathim

Anyone see Glass yet? I thought it was a well-done finale to the Unbreakable trilogy where the culmination of all the comic book trope sort of dissection Shyamalan was doing really paid off. I know it got lousy reviews but I honestly don't know why, I thought the multiple twists toward the end were really good and while I can understand some people feeling that there were some pacing issues, it ultimately paid off and I was satisfied with it. I've never been a fan of Bruce Willis' wooden performances but he was tolerable here, though the rest of the cast was where the real personality was had. It didn't have as much of Mr. Glass as a movie named after him but once things started rolling, he was phenomenal.

I would definitely like to see more directors pick up the same concept within the same universe and run with it, I think there's a lot of potential to explore even broader comic book tropes and mix in more social issues that don't get addressed as much. I think if you are an inherent comic book/superhero fan, you'll get a lot more out of this movie than someone who isn't, and perhaps that's what contributed to more negative critic reviews compared to audience ones.
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CaptainNexus616

Welp looks like all of the Defenders have fallen now. Hanging in the Netflix race until the bitter end of the cancellations at a tie is Jessica Jones and the Punisher!

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Mathim

Quote from: CaptainNexus616 on February 19, 2019, 05:47:04 PM
Welp looks like all of the Defenders have fallen now. Hanging in the Netflix race until the bitter end of the cancellations at a tie is Jessica Jones and the Punisher!

And they really probably ought not have bothered with either, but especially JJ season 3 given the decline from the first to the second.

I do hope these continue on in some fashion, but if not on Netflix, I don't believe they'll be given the budgets to do as good a job. They should take care to procure good writers because if the effects and choreography aren't up to par, they'll have to weave good stories to make up for it.
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Mathim

Move over, Suicide Squad!

Black Panther has not only entered the MCU into the category of superhero films winning Oscars, it's tripled the number earned by the DCEU.
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

Azuresun

Saw Captain Marvel yesterday, and really enjoyed it! I'd put it firmly in the top half of Marvel stuff, meaning it's a solid, fun action movie with good character dynamics (it's pretty much a buddy cop movie) and laugh-out-loud moments. An origin movie will find it hard to stand out from the crowd these days (we're spoiled, and it's great), but it avoids a lot of the structure we've seen before and makes it more character-focused. I also liked Larson's performance--when you have amnesia as a plot device, it could be easy to end up with the character being passive or just looking confused a lot, but there's a nice streak of proactiveness and dry humour that makes the character engaging and easy to root for.

Mathim

Quote from: Azuresun on March 12, 2019, 03:54:02 AM
Saw Captain Marvel yesterday, and really enjoyed it! I'd put it firmly in the top half of Marvel stuff, meaning it's a solid, fun action movie with good character dynamics (it's pretty much a buddy cop movie) and laugh-out-loud moments. An origin movie will find it hard to stand out from the crowd these days (we're spoiled, and it's great), but it avoids a lot of the structure we've seen before and makes it more character-focused. I also liked Larson's performance--when you have amnesia as a plot device, it could be easy to end up with the character being passive or just looking confused a lot, but there's a nice streak of proactiveness and dry humour that makes the character engaging and easy to root for.

I saw it once Thursday and again Friday and I have to say, I liked it more the second time (probably due to knowing what was happening more solidly, since a few things didn't get clarified very well from early on). Overall I wouldn't say it's within the top for Marvel, more toward the middle if anything, but still enjoyable. Okay, spoilers time:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Part of the confusion was her name 'Vers' (I had no idea how that was supposed to be spelled til I saw the dog tag fragment) or why they chose that designation for her so it could have been a little more clear from the start. Maybe a name plate on her quarters or something, just for clarity.

Coulson really didn't need to be in the movie, he didn't do anything of significance so he could have used a bit more meat to justify his presence. But I was impressed by Fury's youthful appearance throughout, they did a great job de-aging Jackson. He had great chemistry with Larson and I'm glad they didn't go the usual route of having a love interest. Like, literally AT ALL. Such a welcome change of pace for these movies, not having that as a distraction without losing the emotional depth from platonic relationships.

Quite a twist having the Skrulls not be the villains, that was very unexpected and interesting. I thought the leader was quite funny when he needed to be and despite his (was it the Skrull teeth making it hard to enunciate?) speech impediment, he did perform quite well. Having Larson not have access to her full power from the beginning was a good move, as that prevented her from being the unstoppable Superman sort of hero from the start and making everything too easy. Keeps the other characters relevant as well which is important. Also even when she got full access to her powers, it wasn't like she knew how to use them right away which is also a nice touch, giving her a little more of a learning curve before she goes and breaks apart a starship from the inside.

As to her performance...I'm torn. A lot of it was just so devoid of emotion, I would have much rather seen something like anger, frustration, maybe even a Spider-Man esque sense of humor about her amnesia. But no, we get emotional emptiness for so much of it. Even when she was resolved, her delivery was so exposition-y and lacking in the kind of outrage or even the crushing pathos and guilt she should have felt for the things she did in their service that she wouldn't have done otherwise. I can't help but wonder whether one or both directors were in favor of that. Based on this performance I have no idea what she could have done to win an Oscar but I was not impressed and that's disappointing. It seems to be a common criticism among the folks I discuss these things with so I know I'm not alone.

The Flerken...that was awesome. If I ever get a cat I'm naming it Goose. It didn't make sense for it to have spit out the Tesseract so soon after Danvers' departure, which would make a more than 10 year gap between when the Tesseract is recovered and Fury deciding to do something with it. If that end-end credits scene had just said something like '14 years later' which would put us in 2009 territory (Iron Man 2 release date, just around when we got our first hint at the existence of Thor, whose end credits scene had the Tesseract appear and be presented to Erik Selvig). So many lost opportunities, but then, most of them have at least a few of those anyway. I'd be leaning toward a C+ or B- overall. I might go a little higher but the liquid wires from the Supreme Intelligence were animated SO badly that it's inexcusable for these kinds of movies at this stage of their evolution.
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TheGlyphstone

CM

I didn't get any sense of emotional emptiness from her at all, personally. This was unabashedly a buddy-cop movie, with Fury as the grounded 'veteran' partner and Danvers as the cocky first-day-on-the-job rookie (as far as their banter and narrative roles, at least). She spent most of the movie with a sarcastic smirk when she wasn't angry about something and snarky commentary abounded from both of them.

Overall the consensus I've seen and read from the people I talk to regularly put it as above-average but not amazing, which almost everyone seems to agree on. The dialogue and acting between the two leads was the high points that carried the movie and made up for the lackluster low-stakes CGI-riddled action scenes. And the cat. Everyone loves the cat.

Snake

I find myself turned off to cap marvel. The unemotional portrayal is a turn off. And the movie focuses on her and her Mary-sue traits don't ingratiate her to me personally and I will not be seeing this movie.

TheSithChicken

Quote from: Snake on March 18, 2019, 05:00:53 PM
I find myself turned off to cap marvel. The unemotional portrayal is a turn off. And the movie focuses on her and her Mary-sue traits don't ingratiate her to me personally and I will not be seeing this movie.

What unemotional portrayal? She spends most of the movie cracking jokes with a smile on her face. She is not a Mary Sue. Honestly you are just repeating Far Right propaganda about the movie without knowing anything about the movie. You clearly didn't read the other posts in here talking about it.

Snake

Well, I've seen the previews and heard from people I trust that did see it. -hard to see movies when broke. Have to wait a year or so for local library to get it on DVD-

I've just heard she has a slew of abilities, no weakness and is "stronger than Thanos" who trashes pretty much everyone else. (Thanos that is. ) 

TheSithChicken

Heard from people you trust? You objectively know nothing about the movie. Everything you stated about the movie is untrue. Slew of abilities? She flies, is super strong, and fires energy blasts. Know who else does all of that? Thor and Iron Man. What weaknesses does Thor have? And she is stronger than Thanos without the infinity stones. Just like the comics.

Sorry. You are repeating propaganda about the movie.