WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[HairyHeretic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_wXCBDiLEA

So, there was talk of a new faction coming, I'm guessing these uber-marines might be it.

New campaign book as well, the Indomitus Crusade?

If the new box set is Marines vs Death Guard, maybe it will be these?

[greenknight]

So...a Custodes field army? (How is there faction set up now?) I dunno, with the Custodes/uber-Sisters getting squatted (maybe that's just their boxset.)

And can no one pronounce "Bob Williams" in the original French anymore? "Robootay"? Is that a relative of John Bigboote?

[HairyHeretic]

No, the Custodes are already in there as an existing faction, along with the Sisters, and GW have said all existing ones will be played. Rumour has it these new Marines are somewhere between existing Marines and Custodes in ability. Beyond that, your guess is as good as mine for what they can do.

There's also talk of them being done truescale. I'm kinda divided on that idea. I actually like the idea of truescale marines / CSMs, and for a new player, its probably a good thing, but it would likely annoying existing players. Mixing them, the truescale will look out of place alongside regular marines, and I wouldn't want to replace all the models I had collected over the years with truescale ones.

[greenknight]

Regarding "truescale," what doe that even mean? 40k started as a 25mm game, 25mm either equaling 2m of real space or eye level of an average man. And then it's 28mm and "heroic." And now space marines are on 32mm bases. And....

Really?

You want uber-marines? Fine. You want to make them taller? Fine. But don't sell me the line about them being "truescale." You just want bigger minis.
</rant>

[HairyHeretic]

Marines, according to fluff, ought to be head and shoulders above the likes of a Guardsman, probably 1-2 feet taller. Maybe even more with the armour.

For those that aren't familiar with the term, Truescale is a term generally used by modelers who want to show that, so they hack up their marines and fill in the gaps to make them larger than the other models.

https://veteransergeant.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/true-scale-space-marine-tutorial/

[greenknight]

Sure, but Tau are dwarf sized, rarely hitting a meter and a half, right? (Ethereals excepted?) But the models are stand face to face with IG (so much so that I've been strongly tempted to field a Tau army of human members of the collective using Cadian legs). So are we going to have tutorial to make them shorter? Or does we need to make guardsmen taller. And then marines taller still. Where does it end man? WHERE DOES IT END?!?!?!

XD XD XD XD



I just accept scale creep and field my metal terminators in their stable firing platforms on their original 25mm bases and call it good.

[wander]

I heard that these new Uber-marines are basically a way for Geedubs to middle finger the 3rd party company space marines models. Which makes me wonder what'll happen with the current Chapters and CMS models once these uber-marines are in.

I mean, if you look to Sigmar, the old Orcs got their own faction aside from the Ironjawz, which were brand new models and their stats are just better all around than the old Orcs, to really push this new faction up.

Course that's been happening for ages now with Codex Creep and stuff like that.

[greenknight]

I heard that these new Uber-marines are basically a way for Geedubs to middle finger the 3rd party company space marines models. Which makes me wonder what'll happen with the current Chapters and CMS models once these uber-marines are in.

So I can't buy, say, a bunch of old Void Assault Marines and field them as Space Marines because the new models are 'teh supah kewlz'?

[TheGlyphstone]

I heard that these new Uber-marines are basically a way for Geedubs to middle finger the 3rd party company space marines models. Which makes me wonder what'll happen with the current Chapters and CMS models once these uber-marines are in.

I mean, if you look to Sigmar, the old Orcs got their own faction aside from the Ironjawz, which were brand new models and their stats are just better all around than the old Orcs, to really push this new faction up.

Course that's been happening for ages now with Codex Creep and stuff like that.

I don't see why they would ever need to 'middle finger' 3rd-party model makers. GW already has a policy of only permitting GW-manufactured models in GW-run events/stores/tournaments, and they can't do anything about what people do outside of that anyways. Likely it's just the next iteration of codex creep.

[greenknight]

I don't see why they would ever need to 'middle finger' 3rd-party model makers. GW already has a policy of only permitting GW-manufactured models in GW-run events/stores/tournaments, and they can't do anything about what people do outside of that anyways. Likely it's just the next iteration of codex creep.

So strongly tempted to make an IG army with Anvil Industries "autoguns" and gear bits.

[Chrisking777]

I've actually been considering getting back into 40k. I have been out for a long time. So should I start with 7th? or wait for 8th?

[HairyHeretic]

Given that 8th could be here in a month or so, I'd wait.

[Chrisking777]

Cool, also i love your avatar. Sun Wu Kong in forbidden kingdom was my favorite 

[wander]

So I can't buy, say, a bunch of old Void Assault Marines and field them as Space Marines because the new models are 'teh supah kewlz'?

Of course you can do whatever you want at your own table... I've done counts-as of CSMs using loyalist Marines whilst waiting to get my models and my friend has no qualms of me using Guardsmen as cultists, etc.

The main point I was trying to really point to was that these new uber-marines may end up being better than the current Marines and with brand new models Geedubs would have a push for you to move to them as a new army. However, from the sounds of things it does seem that 8th edition will be far more balanced than how things are... If they don't have some sort of weakness in their army list put in, I expect the points cost for the ubers will be significant.

[HairyHeretic]

I think at official GW tournaments you can use non GW bits in conversions, but something like 90% of the model has to be GW. For example, my Night Lords use third party shoulderpads for the legion insignia. I could probably get away with them at an official GW tournament.

In a FLGS store or local con tournament, I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid at that. I would probably need to have appropriate models though, the exception being say if something wasn't released yet.

Trying out a unit before buying an expensive model, most people I know would be fine with proxying it for a game or two in friendlies, but if I was going to use it regularly I'd either want to pick it up or convert up my own, something appropriate.

[wander]

I pretty much agree with all that.

So, Fight phase was talked about today. Nothing too major or unforeseen for that, though I did notice this;

Units that activate gain a free 3″ move towards the closest enemy. This can be used to get within 1″ of other enemy units, if you’re cunning, dragging more foes into the melee and preventing them from shooting next turn, even if you didn’t charge them directly (giving them no chance to overwatch). Enemy gun lines will need to be careful about how they position their supporting units, so as to avoid getting dragged into the fight too.

That's naughty and I like it...

Secondarily it also makes horde armies that little bit scarier if they manage to get into assault. Fighting does seem to be getting more of a push for this edition. Armour seems to be more or less worth a damn for 8th and should be enough for those who do well in assault to actually close in and do some damage there. It's also a good way of really giving a bad day to campers and objective nesters and those people who put objectives in their deployment zones.

[Inkidu]

I'm a little bummed. Since GW went wide with their license there's all these cool projects, but none of them are doing well.

Battlefleet Gothic Armada is unsupported now.

Dawn of War 3 is not reviewing strongly on Steam, in fact it's quite bad. :(

Can we get someone to do Space Marine 2 yet? Play as a Gray Knight or something.

[wander]

The amended rulebook for Shadow War: Armageddon will be out on Saturday and it's a neat little game for playing as more personal street skirmish scale with characters you can potentially name and raise up.

My current Shadow War Nurgle Killteam is pretty vanilla...

An Aspiring Champion with Bolter + MoN (260), 4x CSMs with Bolters + MoN (155pts each: 620pts) + 2x Cultists with Autoguns/Shotguns (60 each: 120).

Though I may tweak it around, swap a Marine out for a 3rd Cultist and get more credits to get something interesting added, depending on what wargear strikes me. Chaos are pretty good in Shadow War, they're tough as balls and yet you can do more with them than other tougher sides like the Grey Knights, Necrons and Tyranid Warriors.

[HairyHeretic]

I haven't had a chance to play SW:A yet, but it does look like fun.

[HairyHeretic]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/03/new-warhammer-40000-morale/

So, Morale is up. Any AoS players able to confirm if this is the same mechanic, or something similar? I think it is, from what I've heard about the AoS rules.

[wander]

Yep, it's the same as the Battleshock Phase from when you play AoS.

I talked a little about this upthread already, one thing AoS does do different is you get a +1 bonus to Bravery/Leadership if the unit is over 10 in size when the test is taken. This factors in what I was saying before about how it makes sense for a bigger unit to not feel the morale break so much.

IE. you lose 5 guardsmen from a unit of 20, roll a 4 and comparing that to Ld 7 (+1 for 15 guys = 8) for a total of 9, means 1 guardsman is removed.
Compare that to losing 4 marines from a unit of 5, rolling a 4 and comparing to Ld 7, would be a total of 8, so the last marine left would be removed.

The player whose models flee also gets to choose which ones vamoose also.

Also, as the article states, some models/units have special rules which can help, though the above is how AoS does it. No mention of the Ld boost for larger units, though I expect that'll be included in the final rules when they're released.

[HairyHeretic]

I imagine we'll see some specific unit modifiers. Tyranids are probably never going to have to deal with this when they're in synapse range, but that could flip and penalise them heavily when they're not. Orks always draw strength in numbers, and we have a variety of Fearless units around.

[greenknight]

I imagine we'll see some specific unit modifiers. Tyranids are probably never going to have to deal with this when they're in synapse range, but that could flip and penalise them heavily when they're not. Orks always draw strength in numbers, and we have a variety of Fearless units around.

But currently, Fearless units take extra casualties when they lose, right?

How might And They Shall Know No Fear work in this system? Fall back and regroup instead of flee (article says these are gone)?

IE. you lose 5 guardsmen from a unit of 20, roll a 4 and comparing that to Ld 7 (+1 for 15 guys = 8) for a total of 9, means 1 guardsman is removed.
Compare that to losing 4 marines from a unit of 5, rolling a 4 and comparing to Ld 7, would be a total of 8, so the last marine left would be removed.

Conversely, single-model units (like many vehicles) won’t have to test; as they are units of one, there are no other models in their squad to lose.

How do these square? I'm not trying to sharpshoot here. Will a unit reduced to a lone survivor become a single model unit? Hmmmm. Also, is there an auto success, like either a 1 or a 6 on the dieroll is the same as snake-eyes in the current rules to automatically succeed regardless of modifiers?

[HairyHeretic]

I imagine single model units will be the likes of vehicles and monstrous creatures.

[wander]

But currently, Fearless units take extra casualties when they lose, right?

How might And They Shall Know No Fear work in this system? Fall back and regroup instead of flee (article says these are gone)?

Quick answer; well we don't know yet. There's going to be changes as a whole to the special rules I'm sure and specific units will get their own special rules and modifiers, like Hairy mentioned. Best not to think too much on the old rules and just see what 8th brings...

How do these square? I'm not trying to sharpshoot here. Will a unit reduced to a lone survivor become a single model unit? Hmmmm. Also, is there an auto success, like either a 1 or a 6 on the dieroll is the same as snake-eyes in the current rules to automatically succeed regardless of modifiers?

Hm, well a lone survivor isn't going to need to test for battleshock after the turn it's lost the rest of the models in. It would if say in their turn it was a 5 man squad and it lost 4 guys. After that it's not going to be losing any more models aside from itself and then it'd be a moot point, right?

Though yes, as Hairy says, single model units would be vehicles and creatures etc. Stuff like an Independant Character on their own would count too. As the rules go off models removed from the unit, not wounds lost, at least in battleshock in AoS.

In AoS there is no critical success or failure to the roll. That said, 8th edition looks to be it's own beast and we'll have to wait and see.