Terminator Franchise.

[Lustful Bride]

Well..i just learned literally a few seconds ago that the new terminator movie will be a reboot and have double the time travel as all the other movies.

*facepalm* oh my god. Why is it that all the terminator  stuff after T2 has focused solely upon the time travel and made that the focus and not the Human/Terminator war that was raging? 

Why cant we get that grimdark, bleak future war that the first two movies teased us with over and over?

What do you all think and what would you have if you could change the Terminator franchise around?

I would personally want 2 things.

1: more of the future war being the focus.

2; This one theory I heard to be cannon.

In one possibl future timeline, Skynet actually won the war and caused the total extinction of the Human Race. But now, after all is said and done, it slowly feels a constant sense of guilt growing on it that drives the computer system crazy, it is now the sole sentient being on earth and is all alone. Now capable of thinking and feeling it regrets the genocide that it commited and wishes to end its own existence.

There is only one problem. It cannot self terminate.

So instead it creates an elaborate suicide plan by helping the creation of the Human Resistance, even sending forces back in time to help shift the balance of the war and John Connor's rise as a hero and messiah of the Resistance, playing a massive chess game with its past self in order to commit suicide and end its own existence.

Or another theory I heard of that the first time the human machine war raged, there was no John Connor, he was just a pseudonym of someone else or a myth made up to give the soldiers hope and to make them keep fighting the machines, and the actions of the machines set up a self fulfilling prophecy which will make John real and eventually lead to the destruction of Skynet.

[Mathim]

Well..i just learned literally a few seconds ago that the new terminator movie will be a reboot and have double the time travel as all the other movies.

*facepalm* oh my god. Why is it that all the terminator  stuff after T2 has focused solely upon the time travel and made that the focus and not the Human/Terminator war that was raging? 

Why cant we get that grimdark, bleak future war that the first two movies teased us with over and over?

What do you all think and what would you have if you could change the Terminator franchise around?

I would personally want 2 things.

1: more of the future war being the focus.

2; This one theory I heard to be cannon.

In one possibl future timeline, Skynet actually won the war and caused the total extinction of the Human Race. But now, after all is said and done, it slowly feels a constant sense of guilt growing on it that drives the computer system crazy, it is now the sole sentient being on earth and is all alone. Now capable of thinking and feeling it regrets the genocide that it commited and wishes to end its own existence.

There is only one problem. It cannot self terminate.

So instead it creates an elaborate suicide plan by helping the creation of the Human Resistance, even sending forces back in time to help shift the balance of the war and John Connor's rise as a hero and messiah of the Resistance, playing a massive chess game with its past self in order to commit suicide and end its own existence.

Or another theory I heard of that the first time the human machine war raged, there was no John Connor, he was just a pseudonym of someone else or a myth made up to give the soldiers hope and to make them keep fighting the machines, and the actions of the machines set up a self fulfilling prophecy which will make John real and eventually lead to the destruction of Skynet.

That last bit is interesting, but for them to know that he had a mother named Sarah is pretty specific for a guy who's just an amalgamation of heroic myths. Not unlike Confucius.

[Inkidu]

I can never get behind Terminator. I've seen all of them and I cannot reconcile the time loop.
Seriously, for the machines to win they didn't have to anything. If they made the time gate and blew it up, they'd win.

[Lustful Bride]

That last bit is interesting, but for them to know that he had a mother named Sarah is pretty specific for a guy who's just an amalgamation of heroic myths. Not unlike Confucius.

Yeah, or maybe that was meant as a cover for the real guy and timeloop stuff.....yeah I got nothing.

I can never get behind Terminator. I've seen all of them and I cannot reconcile the time loop.
Seriously, for the machines to win they didn't have to anything. If they made the time gate and blew it up, they'd win.

I know that's why I say I wish that they would focus more on the Machine war and not on the time travel.

[Mathim]

I can never get behind Terminator. I've seen all of them and I cannot reconcile the time loop.
Seriously, for the machines to win they didn't have to anything. If they made the time gate and blew it up, they'd win.

How do you mean? Because the John Connor we know would never have come from the time-traveling Kyle Reese's sack? Doesn't mean there wouldn't have been another, possibly more effective, John Connor to lead the humans and inspire Skynet to make a time machine to assassinate him. The only thing about it that bothers me is that they didn't send something further back to ensure that things went more favorably for them. I mean, almost every terminator they sent back was able to shape-shift so why not have them pose as certain key people, arrange for a certain Connor family and a few of his future lieutenants' families to be in one place and, just before the bombs launch, ensure they all meet some other grisly end?

I had thought, after the announcement of T3 that they should make another actually IN the future world, but the one the did eventually make...just sucked. So bad. I really don't think they'll succeed with this new one, though. It's really hard to come back from big clusterfucks, just look at Highlander 2.

[Inkidu]

How do you mean? Because the John Connor we know would never have come from the time-traveling Kyle Reese's sack? Doesn't mean there wouldn't have been another, possibly more effective, John Connor.

There are a million headache inducing things I could point out, but I don't want a headache.

Let's just say that that would cause a branching timeline which means anything is possible anyway and blows up the movie anyway. :P

[Mathim]

There are a million headache inducing things I could point out, but I don't want a headache.

Let's just say that that would cause a branching timeline which means anything is possible anyway and blows up the movie anyway. :P

Isn't a branching timeline an intrinsic property of time travel, in virtually every story it's used in? (Apart from Back to the Future). That was the least of my concerns. Them attempting to destroy an enormous android by blowing up a gas station around it was just moronic. Since when did fire hurt sturdy metal machinations?

[Inkidu]

Isn't a branching timeline an intrinsic property of time travel, in virtually every story it's used in? (Apart from Back to the Future). That was the least of my concerns. Them attempting to destroy an enormous android by blowing up a gas station around it was just moronic. Since when did fire hurt sturdy metal machinations?

The only time travel that works is time travel where you can't actually change anything (a la H.G. Wells's book), and that's only from a narrative standpoint. The very concept of time travel generally breaks our understanding of physics. It's literally like a pot of water boiling before any heat source is applied.

Could things change? Yes, but even alternate timelines is basically a literary conceit.

EDIT: Time travel plots where the villain has affected the change are the exception, but that's usually about a group of heroes restoring the original timeline, not causing it to happen.

Does gas fire hurt sturdy metal machinations? All the time. It's called heat fatigue, but I'll believe a new metal alloy compound could be found before I believe you can casually break physics by having the villains lose by winning. :P

[Beorning]

Isn't a branching timeline an intrinsic property of time travel, in virtually every story it's used in?

Actually, there are a few instances in fiction of time-travel that doesn't change the past... Have you read Heinlein's All You Zombies?

[Mathim]

The only time travel that works is time travel where you can't actually change anything (a la H.G. Wells's book), and that's only from a narrative standpoint. The very concept of time travel generally breaks our understanding of physics. It's literally like a pot of water boiling before any heat source is applied.

Could things change? Yes, but even alternate timelines is basically a literary conceit.

EDIT: Time travel plots where the villain has affected the change are the exception, but that's usually about a group of heroes restoring the original timeline, not causing it to happen.

Does gas fire hurt sturdy metal machinations? All the time. It's called heat fatigue, but I'll believe a new metal alloy compound could be found before I believe you can casually break physics by having the villains lose by winning. :P

Eh, I'm skeptical about the heat and metal thing, given the controversy about jet fuel temperatures and skyscraper girder melting points. Plus if you're talking about future-super-robots, that's just cranking up the defense of such things. I'd believe an RPG could cause some damage, but not just open flame.

[Inkidu]

I don't argue that they couldn't come up with some new alloy.

Though it should be noted that Cameron's original vision was a human-machine war, but the budget was too small and the effects not there so the time travel plot was slapped in there. :P

[Mathim]

I don't argue that they couldn't come up with some new alloy.

Though it should be noted that Cameron's original vision was a human-machine war, but the budget was too small and the effects not there so the time travel plot was slapped in there. :P

It works well as far as future-deadly-tech dropped into the middle of present-day America. Still, a well-done human-machine war would be awesome. Better than those Transformers failures.

[CaptainNexus616]

Oh please do not start on Transformers...I do not wish for everything to literally blow up in my face. If there is one thing I could have done with the franchise? Prevented T3 from ever even making the pitch to the board that approved the movie to begin with.

All throughout the second movie we see this constant struggle between fate and freedom. Heck we saw the Terminator evolve from a ruthless killing machine into a father figure for the man that he was originally designed to kill. Then we end the movie with the thought Sky Net is gone and the Terminator dying a changed machine.

Well cue T3 Rise of Machines. Arnold's Terminator was bland, John Connor was pathetic in that movie and didn't come off anywhere near a man willing to lead humanity in a war for survival, and then end the movie by having Judgment Day happen anyway just for the sake of a plot twist.

[Sabby]

I can never get behind Terminator. I've seen all of them and I cannot reconcile the time loop.
Seriously, for the machines to win they didn't have to anything. If they made the time gate and blew it up, they'd win.

Incorrect. If Skynet never sent the T-800 to kill Sarah, then it's CPU would never be left in the past and Cyberdyne would never create Skynet.

[Oniya]

So, not only did Skynet 'know' that it had to send the T-800 back, it 'knew' that it had to fail - otherwise the CPU wouldn't have fallen into Cyberdyne's hands.

[Inkidu]

Incorrect. If Skynet never sent the T-800 to kill Sarah, then it's CPU would never be left in the past and Cyberdyne would never create Skynet.

Yeah they tried to put a patch on it, but Oniya highlights only one of the many issues garnered from breaking physics.

[Sabby]

So, not only did Skynet 'know' that it had to send the T-800 back, it 'knew' that it had to fail - otherwise the CPU wouldn't have fallen into Cyberdyne's hands.

If that were the case, then Skynet would also know that sending the T-800 to die and allow itself to be born will also lead to it's ultimate demise, making it's actions worthless.

Yeah, time travel is weird. The comics fell victim to redundant time loops as well, but also tended to solve a lot of the problems people had with the films, like why Skynet never used chemical weapons, why Skynet uses infiltration units when it can just destroy any human settlement through brute force, why Skynet even attacked in the first place. I'd recommend the Dark Horse Onmibus collection.

Also, this happens.



This is how a purely logical machine repairs itself with motorcycle chrome. Because.

[Lustful Bride]

Well the trailer came out for the new Terminator movie.....I don't really like it. It started well with a terminator battle in the future but...then...it just slowly wore me down.

I hate how they only care about time travel and rebooting the series now.

[Sabby]

I am a massive Terminator fan, and... I actually kind of like the trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8i6pOPRSug

For one, it doesn't give me the cliff notes of the entire plot like most trailers. I have questions, and I want to see the movie to get answers.

[Lustful Bride]

I hope that at least the future war scene in the beginning is 30 minutes long, or 15 minutes, if I get that I can be happy and take the time travel paradoxes better.

[Inkidu]

Not a reboot in the strictest sense, more of an alternate timeline.

I'm already feeling the twinges of a headache. XD

[Valaesin]

Not a reboot in the strictest sense, more of an alternate timeline.

I'm already feeling the twinges of a headache. XD

I think this is the single thing I like most about this "reboot".  For the first part of the trailer, you're going "Yeah, yeah, we know.  Go back in time.  Protect Sarah.  Then get the whoopie on with her so you're born.  I get it."  And then the truck comes ramming through the store and its Sarah, already kicking butt, and everything has changed.  I can't wait to see this and learn what happened.  Someone done screwed up the timeline!

[Sabby]

I agree. I actually want to see what they do with this. I was ready to be disappointed when I loaded the trailer, and the movie might end up disappointing me any way, but I actually have some hope now.

I mean, it can't be worse then Salvation...

Then again, it could have the friggen T-Infinity model.

[Valaesin]

I mean, it can't be worse then Salvation...

If this movie stinks, I'm going to have to find you and make sure you pay for jinxing the movie.  Never say stuff like that!

[TheGlyphstone]

Y loved the Termynator franchyse, and thys just depresses me. 1 - Great, 2 - Good, 3 - Decent, 4 - Awful - so  5- Genysys wyll be absolutely terryble.

[Inkidu]

Y loved the Termynator franchyse, and thys just depresses me. 1 - Great, 2 - Good, 3 - Decent, 4 - Awful - so  5- Genysys wyll be absolutely terryble.

I almost asked what you were on, but then I got it. ^___^

[Beorning]

I have a question: how did they make Arnold look young again? Isn't he 70 now or something?

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about the trailer. It could be good. It could be bad. I don't know... In any case, I don't think I'll be able to consider that movie "canon". For me, canon Terminator stuff are the first two movies and, possibly, the TV series. Everything else feels... tacked on.

A lot how I feel about the coming Star Wars movie...

[Inkidu]

Make up, prostheses, and CGI are now all viable options for restoring youth to aging stars.

[Beorning]

Yeah, true...

BTW. I didn't recognize her the first time when I was watching this trailer, but hey! That's Khaleesi... I mean, Emilia Clarke!

Hm. Lena Headey played Sarah Connor in the series. Emilia Clarke plays Sarah Connor in this movie. Let's make predictions which Game of Thrones actress will play Sarah next...  ;)

[Sabby]

I have a question: how did they make Arnold look young again? Isn't he 70 now or something?

They didn't, that's how he looks. The 'official' reason is that Arnold has been stuck in the past so long that his organic tissue has begun to age. This makes sense. Any infiltration unit has a small heart, about the size of a chickens heart, and has to eat food, like any other living being. The only muscles at whatevers just under the skin, so the expressive ones, and there's no brain, so a Terminator doesn't really need a whole lot of sustenance.

Still, it's logical that the flesh will age.

[Beorning]

I don't know. I agree that a Terminator's flesh could start to deteriorate from age... but it actually aging, so that the unit looks like a normal old man? It stretches the suspension of disbelief for me...

Two other loosely-related thoughts about the trailer:

1. So, another big 80s movie gets a remake / reboot. Alright then, I give up: can we have that Hellraiser remake finally?

2. The sexist part of my brain refuses to accept that any women could behave in such an manly, authorative manner as Sarah in that trailer... ouch! *gives himself a Gibbs slap*

[Sabby]

I don't know. I agree that a Terminator's flesh could start to deteriorate from age... but it actually aging, so that the unit looks like a normal old man? It stretches the suspension of disbelief for me...

Two other loosely-related thoughts about the trailer:

1. So, another big 80s movie gets a remake / reboot. Alright then, I give up: can we have that Hellraiser remake finally?

2. The sexist part of my brain refuses to accept that any women could behave in such an manly, authorative manner as Sarah in that trailer... ouch! *gives himself a Gibbs slap*

At first my brain was like "...oh shit, it's going to be Robocop again! D=". Then I thought for a bit and realized T2 (one of the greatest films ever made) wasn't that violent to begin with. The new PG-13 rated Robocop reboot is just about as violent as T2 was.

[Oniya]

I have a question: how did they make Arnold look young again? Isn't he 70 now or something?

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about the trailer. It could be good. It could be bad. I don't know... In any case, I don't think I'll be able to consider that movie "canon". For me, canon Terminator stuff are the first two movies and, possibly, the TV series. Everything else feels... tacked on.

A lot how I feel about the coming Star Wars movie...

Arnold is in exceptional shape for a 67-year old.  There's a picture of him in 2012 at Comicon (presumably without prosthetics, possibly with a little makeup, definitely no CGI) and the most I could see him 'needing' would be something to cope with the receding hairline.  If I didn't know his age, I probably wouldn't put him over 50.



(And as the Terminator, he wouldn't be doing all that much smiling.)

[mia h]

Just look at what they did with Beau Bridges in the Tron film and think how much less work Arnie would need

[Beorning]

I think you meant Jeff Bridges :)

[Deamonbane]

Speaking of the Star Wars movie... I hate Disney forever.

[Valaesin]

Speaking of the Star Wars movie... I hate Disney forever.

Now, now, at least wait to see the movie before saying you hate Disney.  Right now its irrational hatred.  Once it comes out and we see how good/bad it is, we can switch to rational hatred.

[Deamonbane]

I hate Disney forever because they declared all the awesomely written and made out stories that happened Post-Battle of Endor to be 'The Legends of Star Wars'. Which means that... there's no Mara Jade, there's no Yuzzhan Vong, there's no Kyle Katarn, and, more importantly, there's no Boba Fett as Mandalore...

[Valaesin]

I hate Disney forever because they declared all the awesomely written and made out stories that happened Post-Battle of Endor to be 'The Legends of Star Wars'. Which means that... there's no Mara Jade, there's no Yuzzhan Vong, there's no Kyle Katarn, and, more importantly, there's no Boba Fett as Mandalore...

I'll miss Mara and Kyle, but I won't miss Yuzzhan Vong.  And I have a great deal of suspicion that they'll recycle the most popular aspects.  After all, if they have Luke basically losing control of his powers, what better to "stabilize" that than a love interest.  Who will probably have red hair.  And be named after a gem.

[Oniya]

There's also nothing saying that they can't decide to recanonize something at a later point.

[Deamonbane]

Oh... and Thrawn too... They got rid of Thrawn.

In my personal opinion, the Vong were the most creative villains that they've come up with in the Star Wars universe. The whole battle between Jedi and Sith has been overblown and has started to become a little bit repetitive and predictable. The Vong were fresh, they forced the Jedi and Sith to get creative, jump out of their comfort zone and, more importantly, made them have to use something other than their all-powerful Force to win.

Also, it helps to make sense of why the Empire created so many weapons of mass destruction.

[Lustful Bride]

I hate Disney forever because they declared all the awesomely written and made out stories that happened Post-Battle of Endor to be 'The Legends of Star Wars'. Which means that... there's no Mara Jade, there's no Yuzzhan Vong, there's no Kyle Katarn, and, more importantly, there's no Boba Fett as Mandalore...

*major Mara Jade/ Luke fangirl* 

My reaction:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rj2kr7KP5DQ

Also it makes me mad cause I totally thought the new trilogy would be about the Vong.

[Zekromnomnom]

My problem with the movies is that at a certain point, time travel just loses its pizaz and you know not to take anything seriously because someone's just going to send something else back in time and things would start to get muddled. After T3 which I only saw part of, I heard they were making the TV show that happened for a bit or whatever and I started to realize all of the above. 

[Sabby]

Might as well go all the way. I want them to time travel all over the damn place.

Think about, a Terminator is sent back to medieval times, but the Resistance can't get an exact date, only a 300 year window. So they go back, knowing that they might all die of old old before the Terminator even shows up, and create a secret society to carry on the mission after they pass on. Now picture a hooded Terminator with has his face a grinning metal skull, walking calmly down a field with a claymore too heavy for any human to lift, towards a cavalry charge.

Don't tell me you don't wanna see that.

[Oniya]

Terminator is sent back to the early 1700's.  As part of his cover, and to ensure access to the high-ranking person or persons he is assigned to terminate, he uses his superhuman reflexes and knowledge of the time period to become a master composer.


And Arnie gets to say 'I'll be Bach.'

[TheGlyphstone]

Terminator is sent back to the early 1700's.  As part of his cover, and to ensure access to the high-ranking person or persons he is assigned to terminate, he uses his superhuman reflexes and knowledge of the time period to become a master composer.


And Arnie gets to say 'I'll be Bach.'

And there was a great groaning, as if a million punsters cried out in horror and were suddenly silenced...

[Deamonbane]

Might as well go all the way. I want them to time travel all over the damn place.

Think about, a Terminator is sent back to medieval times, but the Resistance can't get an exact date, only a 300 year window. So they go back, knowing that they might all die of old old before the Terminator even shows up, and create a secret society to carry on the mission after they pass on. Now picture a hooded Terminator with has his face a grinning metal skull, walking calmly down a field with a claymore too heavy for any human to lift, towards a cavalry charge.

Don't tell me you don't wanna see that.

Honestly, I would pay good money if I saw that in a trailer...

Yay! Bad puns! This one was the best I've seen in a while...

[Inkidu]

Terminator is sent back to the early 1700's.  As part of his cover, and to ensure access to the high-ranking person or persons he is assigned to terminate, he uses his superhuman reflexes and knowledge of the time period to become a master composer.


And Arnie gets to say 'I'll be Bach.'

The truly horrible, despicable thing is that you're probably grinning like a mad-Oniya after making that crime against humanity.

Well done! Well done indeed! :D *Bows and claps*

[Zekromnomnom]

I thought the medieval Terminator thing was going to turn into something about Assassin's Creed. Don't really know why...

[Deamonbane]

Because of the mention of a hood *nods*

[Oniya]

I thought the medieval Terminator thing was going to turn into something about Assassin's Creed. Don't really know why...

It would explain the character's insane parkour abilities with regard to buildings, yet amazing inability to climb a tree.  (Robotics are heavy!)

[TheGlyphstone]

Well, Terminators are supposed to be robotic assassins...


Actually, that could make for a pretty cool trailer. Hooded figure, white costume, double daggers and all that, walking towards a huge army. Make it look like an Assassin's Creed game right up to the end when the 'assassin' looks up and you see a Terminator skull underneath the hood instead.

[CaptainNexus616]

Well, Terminators are supposed to be robotic assassins...


Actually, that could make for a pretty cool trailer. Hooded figure, white costume, double daggers and all that, walking towards a huge army. Make it look like an Assassin's Creed game right up to the end when the 'assassin' looks up and you see a Terminator skull underneath the hood instead.

M. Night Shamaylan  would be screaming like a fan girl towards that twist lol.

Personally it is a good point though why not explore other time periods? I thought doing a movie concerning the future where we actually get to see the war would be cool. Though Salvation didn't live up to the expectations it was a change. Sadly however now a days if you want to do classic franchise everyone has to REBOOT it instead of REVIVING it.

Back when Doctor Who was coming back several people came forward with ideas concerning how to reboot the franchise and start all over again. Instead BBC went with Russel T. Davis idea. Instead RTD resumed the show after a certain amount of time has passed and still made changes to the franchise without erasing the previous continuity which would have made old fans angry. Sure a lot of franchises aren't as flexible as Doctor Who is. That can't stop you though from actually using your head and adding to franchise instead of erasing it and starting over.

[Uebelator]

I hate the trailer for Genisys (or however you write that crappy wordplay).

Somehow they managed to make even the grimdark battlefields of the future look like an 80s disco.
And Arnold? Seriously? Please find yourself a nice retirement home and stay there. Your action-days are more than over.

And why the hell is Skynet having such a goddamn fetish about Sarah Connor? Yes, she´s the mother of dragons John Connor, leader of the rebellion, but why not go back and kill her fucking parents?

Yeah, Daenaerys as the young Sarah Connor is cast pretty well, but *sigh* why do they have to have a young Sarah Connor in the first place?

For me Terminator wasnt so much about time travel or about saving the future. For me it was about man vs. machine. Being chased by this relentless killer that wont stop until youre dead. Why not send a Termintor back to the 30s to kill John Connors great granddad?

This whole trailer somehow looks to me like it was made for some crappy TV show, but then again... There hasnt been a decent Terminator movie since the second one, so its fits into that line pretty well.

[Sabby]

And why the hell is Skynet having such a goddamn fetish about Sarah Connor? Yes, she´s the mother of dragons John Connor, leader of the rebellion, but why not go back and kill her fucking parents?

Probably the same reason we don't have Beowolf as a reprogrammed Terminator defending Johns viking ancestors from a T-Infinity (Yes, that's a thing, look it up). The further you go back in time, the more events will be changed by the intervention. They're not going to send a nuke back in a giant testicle to ensure Sarah is killed, and they're not going to kill Johns grandparents, because they put Skynets own creation at risk.

...which makes sense at first glance, sure, but the Terminator has never been a subtle killer. I don't think it's on the level of Los Angeles suddenly vaporizing, but I'm pretty sure a man walking into a police station with a security camera system and briskly striding through point blank gunfire would have stronger effects on the timeline then just silently breaking Grandpa Connors neck in his sleep.

[CaptainNexus616]

Hence why Terminators always screw up. They are never subtle, the minute they see John Connor they start pulling out big guns and shoot.  If they wanted to be efficient they should send one back as a double agent. "Hey I'm here to protect yo- fist through the chest!" But Iguess they ccan't help it since they are designed to kill on site to begin with. Just need to do some work on infiltration units.

[Sabby]

That's the worst part, Terminators aren't just stupid shock troopers who shoot on sight. The ones in the intro are, sure, but infiltration units are so lifelike and believable that they've had spouses in the course of their missions. Yes, people in the future timeline have hooked up with Terminators. They are that convincing. It's the whole reason dogs are used to sniff them out. There's no reason why a Terminator can't steal a UPS uniform and come to Sarahs door with a silenced pistol and just quietly end the war. A back ally hitman could do the job better.

[Oniya]

There's no reason why a Terminator can't steal a UPS uniform and come to Sarahs door with a silenced pistol and just quietly end the war. A back ally hitman could do the job better.

And has.  The James Sullivan case involved a guy hiring a hitman to pose as a flower-deliveryman to kill his ex-wife before the divorce settlement.  Took years to tie it all together, and while the case was eventually solved, that doesn't make much difference as far as 'possibly giving birth to a rebel leader' is concerned.

[Sabby]

Because, ya know, an unexplained assassination on an unremarkable civilian may impair the development of Cyberdyne in the next decade or so.

[Sabby]

After rewatching the trailer, I'm still hopeful, but damn, Terminators shouldn't be rendered on a computer. Watch the trailer and at 23 seconds, look at how that Terminator moves. That just looks... wrong. The Terminators shown in the opening battle of T1 and T2 have these slow, deliberate, stilted movements. That slow head turn still terrifies me. If they must CG the Terminators, at least try and mimic the original feel. A soldier in a mocap suit being told to shoot at an imaginary target... just... no.

[Lustful Bride]

After rewatching the trailer, I'm still hopeful, but damn, Terminators shouldn't be rendered on a computer. Watch the trailer and at 23 seconds, look at how that Terminator moves. That just looks... wrong. The Terminators shown in the opening battle of T1 and T2 have these slow, deliberate, stilted movements. That slow head turn still terrifies me. If they must CG the Terminators, at least try and mimic the original feel. A soldier in a mocap suit being told to shoot at an imaginary target... just... no.

Same, I miss the stop motion/ Model versions of the TErminators...VG ones are just too shiny aqnd lack the sense of weight the older ones had.

[Sabby]

I'm fine with the shininess, and even motion capture, just don't make them move like humans. Make them move like Jason Vorhees in a rusty full body medical brace.

[CaptainNexus616]

When you mention the whole movement thing I can't help but think back on how the old Robocop use to move. Sorry off topic I know.

[TheGlyphstone]

...Damn, Arnold's gotten OLD. That man has no business doing action movies anymore.

[Drake Valentine]

They were actually rebooting it? I thought that was a joke. >.>

Guess that time I went back in time to save the franchise didn't work. ;/

[CaptainNexus616]

...Damn, Arnold's gotten OLD. That man has no business doing action movies anymore.

Well Arnold was planning on returning to acting after his term as Governor was over. To be fair I think its running a bit longer than he originally intended and that's due to the mess he was involved in a few years back. Having an affair with his house maid and fathering a son with her. Who knows what his wife took as compensation when they separated. Arnold knows that despite his age if someone wants to bring him in for even just a cameo they will fork out some money.

It's the whole reason why Ric Flair is still appearing on wrestling. The guy may be a legend but he needs money from all of his divorces.

[Sabby]

I just rewatched T2. I thought maybe I wouldn't cry this time. Nope. Cried like a bitch.

[Inkidu]

I'd have agreed with you as a teenager, but as an adult the movie has really dated itself with Edward Furlong's totally-radical stuff, and I can't really take his acting seriously. :\

[Sabby]

Hard to sound radical when you have the voice of a 10 year old Hispanic girl xD

[Inkidu]

Hard to sound radical when you have the voice of a 10 year old Hispanic girl xD

Not gonna' lie, I couldn't breath for a few seconds.

[Oniya]

I just rewatched T2. I thought maybe I wouldn't cry this time. Nope. Cried like a bitch.

Regardless of the quality of the rest of the movie, that one scene was about as poignant a goodbye as I've seen since E.T.  ('I'll be right... here.')

[Uebelator]

Really? I mean, the goodbye scene was good and dramatic, but even as a 14 year old, I cringed at the thumbs up-thing. That and the "I know now why you cry"-quote was just too much frosting on the cake.
Seriously? That guy is a fucking killer-robot from the future and suddenly he gets all weepy? Thats just wrong.

[Sabby]

That's actually explained in a deleted scene. Infiltration units have the ability to learn, but it's restricted by default, to keep Terminators from developing independent thoughts. In the deleted scene, Sarah and John remove the T-800's CPU and remove the learning inhibitor. That's why he's able to grasp human emotions and the significance of a thumbs up.

[Uebelator]

Its still wrong for me. He´s a machine and he acts strictly logical. I never pictured Skynet as being emotional in any way, but if a normal Terminator can learn emotions, than the big bad boss should probably be able to do that as well.

And if that means, that Skynet didnt start the war, because it was the most logical step to wipe out humanity, but because of some hurt feelings because some developer didnt apply the latest update on schedule, I think that kinda sucks. ;)

[Sabby]

Emotions can be understood logically. The T-800 didn't say he was feeling the need to cry, only that he knew why John was crying. Skynet, on the other hand, feels emotions, and one of those is paranoia, which is why it limits all other A.I.s learning capacity.

[Deamonbane]

Plus, the T-800 did the logical thing by melting himself instead of the illogical and emotionally right thing which would be to save himself.

[Sabby]

That, and it does support the characterization of Skynet in the extended universe, and that's the only glimpse we get of Skynet (Outside of Salvation, which wields Terminator lore much young John would have wielded that massive minigun)

[Sabby]

Quickly rewatching Terminator 1 before I head out to see Genisys. Seems every time I see one of the movies or read one of the comics, some new rabbit hole opens up for me to dive into.

So, the Terminators job is to kill off Sarah Connor without threatening the integrity of the timeline. Okay, so ya can't just teleport a flesh coated nuke back. But its way of achieving this is to brutally murder all Sarah Connors in the order they're listed in the phone book, a method that the local police pick up on after only two murders (the minimum amount it takes to make that connection, by the way). Now, lets say that the actual Sarah wasn't name number three on the list, or that the police picked her up a minute before the Terminator had got to Technoir. What would have happened?

Well, every other Sarah in the city would have been taken to protective custody, meaning that the Terminators mission was now scattered and hidden. The only way to progress was to wage war on the police, prompting the Sarahs to constantly be moved and the fighting to escalate.

Now, what would have threatened the creation of a global security A.I. more, an umprompted nuclear attack on the Unite States with no organization taking credit, or a fucking cyborg waging open war on it?

[Inkidu]

That's why time-travel plots just don't work. There's nothing you can do in the past (well actually doing nothing is the only thing you can do) that won't change the future. I suppose the only thing you could hope for is an acceptable tolerance of divergence.

[Drake Valentine]

That's why time-travel plots just don't work. There's nothing you can do in the past (well actually doing nothing is the only thing you can do) that won't change the future. I suppose the only thing you could hope for is an acceptable tolerance of divergence.

The X-Men movie had the best time travel move to change their future. ;o Of course, that movie had some serious plotholes as well. (And honestly that was their way of reviving everyone so they can kill them off again.)

[mia h]

I wouldn't say time travel plots just don't work (12 Monkeys, anyone) but looking at just the two Terminator films which is where Genisys picks up, then the whole story is a predestination paradox.
If Skynet doesn't send the first Terminator back then Recee doesn't follow it, so John Connor isn't born and there is no great leader of the human resistance and Skynet wins but that means that Skynet has no reason to send the Terminator back in time. But if the first Terminator doesn't go back then Cyberdyne doesn't have the bits of broken Terminator that allow them to create Skynet which would mean Skynet loses.

[Sabby]

See, that's the one complaint everyone has that I never got. So, Cyberdyne models Skynet off of the CPU from the T-800 in The Terminator. You're right, that doesn't make any sense... from the perspective of a human brain, which is tooled to understand a materialistic world as a linear series of events and consequences. But I actually really like when the time flow completely ignores that status quo and has events in the 'past' rely on their own future to kick them into gear.

Has anyone seen Triangle? Atrocious film, but it does attempt to take that disregard for mechanism to as chaotic a point as possible. It's like being in a zone where time just loops and corrodes and doubles on itself with no real rhyme or reason to it. I'd recommend it to anyone whose interested in a less conventional (though sadly completely incomprehensible) set of time 'rules'.

[Lustful Bride]

Skynet doesn't understand the Novikov self-consistency principle. But then again most humans probably don't either. :P

[TheGlyphstone]

T1 actually worked, because it was a self-contained stable time loop. The existence of John Connor, Skynet, and everything else was internally self-dependent on itself.

T2 threw all that out the window with it's "the future is what we make it" theme, thus creating a paradox.

T3 tried reverting back to T1's inevitability.

T4 is stupid and I dont care about it, because it all happened in the future anyways.

That's the issue with Terminator. It keeps changing its own rules on how time travel works, ruining any hope of consistency it had. And it sounds like Genysis is using the T2 idea but splicing in parallel/alternate timelines to try and make it more logical.

[Sabby]

Imagine if Skynet came to the same conclusion. Just wakes up one day like "I don't get anything anymore, fuck it!" and just goes nuts with time travel. Skynet sends something back, John sends back something to counter it, Skynet adapts, John adapts, until it's just one upping each other endlessly.

I mean, they already kind of started to do it. The TX is a Terminator made to kill Terminators. Skynet only makes a TX because John is reprogramming it's Terminators. Just keep going! Counter bullshit with more bullshit, make the T-Infinity canon!

[Oniya]

make the T-Infinity canon!

I read that as 'cannon' (the big gun) instead of 'canon' (accepted body of lore), and it was a very funny image.

[Sabby]

Trust me, a cannon with legs and metal Terminator teeth would be an improvement on the T-Infinity.

[Oniya]

I was thinking of infinite Terminators as payload.  ;D

(Still a better plot device than...)

[Kunoichi]

There's an interview floating around somewhere out there where the people who made the film lay out the basic time travel rules they're using for this film and the two sequels they're hoping to make.  They are using the changeable future/ multiple timelines option to reconcile everything, but they're also trying to incorporate some of the predestination elements from 1 and 3 by adding in the corollary that the more of an impact an event has on history, the harder it is to change.  I think the exact metaphor they used was that, if a single timeline is like a river, then much like diverting a river, diverting the timeline in any major way is going to require a great deal of planning, preparation and effort.

Anyway, I got the chance to go see the movie yesterday, and while it had a few issues, I'd say that it was probably either the second or third best Terminator movie out of the five we've gotten so far.  I'm definitely hoping it does well enough that we get those eventual sequels. ^^

[Sabby]

Wanna know what Skynet comes up with when it researches Xenomorph biology? If you said 'a creepy ass Terminator with black Xeno skin, fangs and claws', you're half correct. That was the concept art. Here's what they really went with!



Because that doesn't look stupid at all. It's especially cool for it's ability to absorb random scenery to turn it into weapons that definitely don't look like random crap sticking out of it.

[Drake Valentine]

Because that doesn't look stupid at all. It's especially cool for it's ability to absorb random scenery to turn it into weapons that definitely don't look like random crap sticking out of it.

...Sarcasm?

[Oniya]

'a creepy ass Terminator with black Xeno skin, fangs and claws',

I'm - trying to see how that description doesn't match what you say they went with, and is only 'half right'.  Aside from the necessarily bluish 'black' that you get in all comic book art.

[Drake Valentine]

I'm - trying to see how that description doesn't match what you say they went with, and is only 'half right'.  Aside from the necessarily bluish 'black' that you get in all comic book art.

It looks like batman got cross with some bat genes and became a mutated bat on steroids to me.

[TheGlyphstone]

I thought more like a Terminator gorilla, myself. The head is rather Xenomorphish, but the body is all wrong - bulging, swollen muscles aren't Xenomorphish at all, they're supposed to be much more sleek and serpentine.

[Oniya]

I thought more like a Terminator gorilla, myself. The head is rather Xenomorphish, but the body is all wrong - bulging, swollen muscles aren't Xenomorphish at all, they're supposed to be much more sleek and serpentine.

I assumed that the 'Mr. Universe' physique came from the Terminator side of the family.  *shrug*

[Sabby]

The original design had it looking exactly like a Terminator, it was just black with that Xeno biomechanical design on it's skin, with sharp teeth and claws. What they went with was big, bulky and purple, with no biomechanical stuff.

[TheGlyphstone]

That's sort of what I meant. I agree with Oniya that based purely on your verbal description, it's a fairly good match to the text. But it's nothing like that concept art, and not what I would have imagined it as either - what it looks like is one artist doing the concept, then another artist doing the revised version purely based off the summary.

[Sabby]

Yeah, I should have tracked down the concept art to save confusion, but I actually couldn't. It was pretty buried.

[Sabby]

Hmmm, rewatching T2, and I'm starting to realize just how important that deleted scene is. Remember a while ago we talked about a deleted scene with John and Sarah removing the T-800s CPU to disable the learning inhibitor? If you don't have a version of the movie with that scene and you decide to watch it again, just remember that when they leave to see Enriche to get the weapons, the T-800 is learning. So much is standing out that I don't know how I missed it for so many years.

[mia h]

The other side to that scene is slightly later when John gets the car keys from the sunvisor and ask the T-800 "Are we learning yet?" , that actually makes sense with the deleted scene.

[Sabby]

Or when he asks John why he cries, completely unprompted.