Black Lagoon Anime/Manga based RPG (Revised, NC:H, action oriented)

[Neysha]

The medic suggestion was from WritersBlockade, not Sessha, and from my perspective if was not a requirement.  Though from what I gather you actually really like the medic part?

I'd have preferred not to have required nautical experience either, but I'd already received two characters that don't appear to have much of a nautical background and I felt that a large portion of the crew should have such experience.

Oh well... either way. Yeah I'm down with the medical part. And the nautical part. Both make sense in my mind, especially in regards to the kind of group we have. Granted the nautical part was a later addition in the original biography. She's still probably second stringer to the boat commander, which again, fits her role most suitably. The only thing she is primarily skilled in, with regards to most of whatever the group does is medicine. And even then, her experience level is that of a medic.

In every other primary skill set (hunting, tracking, survival, explosives, firearms, mechanical repair, martial arts, stealth, breaking and entering, tactics, combat skills, marksmanship, driving etc) she's inferior to one if not several of the other crewmembers. She's the most skilled in some regards to niche things... like pickpocketing... and grifting... and cooking meth... and using a bow possibly lol, but I honestly still have no idea how applicable any of those skills would actually be. Honestly, I'm not even sure she'd be all that good in a firefight to be honest. Unless you're a sniper, (which she's not) using a bolt (or lever, or pump) action weapon when your foes have military/combat training and/or experience in most situations is actually a significant disadvantage, especially if they are armed with automatic or semi automatic weapons.

[Daril]

To be honest I think I might have preferred a good driver myself, but it sounds like you're really into the medic part so let's roll with that.  It also sounds like you favor the first profile which I think is the better of the two as well.  If possible I'd like her experience aboard smuggling craft to play a larger role, as it would help explain why/how she got a job aboard the Lucky Strike.

As for the weaponry, I'd say the pump action shotgun may be useful, but I really don't see a lot of point in her using a bolt action rifle on jobs.  Even if she has only basic familiarity with the weapon something borrowed from the boat's small arms locker would probably be more useful in a firefight.  It shouldn't be that hard for the other crewers to give her a crash course so she at least knows how to fire some of them.

[Writersblockade]

Hmmm...I missed a lot lol.

@Vex. I hear where you're coming from with regards to your character balance concerns. The best I could tell you is that from Cash's perspective, redundancy isn't all that horrible a thing. The old adage "two is one, and one is none" is probably something that stuck to him in his travels and time spent with other military folks. Cash will be very adamant that Ami or Leah not go on trips that have a high probability for a firefight, but would find himself taking Alex, Tiny, and Jon as an "Away Team" for particularly prickly situations. This is for the benefit of setting up a smaller team that won't take long to gtfo if needed. To put it bluntly, certain skill sets have no place being under fire unless absolutely necessary. Ami keeps the boat alive, Cash keeps her alive, and the world keeps spinning

@Neysha, though it may matter to you or not, I actually liked your first version. I'd simply say that your character has picked up skills, but isn't necessarily a master. The same way that working for a good chef improves your cooking, but doesn't actually make you a chef. Nothing for nothing, I say give it a go.

I know we're still getting stuff together, but if I could request that we get a character thread created, it'll keep me from cycling through the pages. These should be final copies approved and posted by the GM, so that we eliminate as much confusion as possible.

I know we also have some other characters in play, or at least waiting, so if I forgot anyone, be cool lol.

[Vex]

I think for this to work Ami is going to need to stand up to her dad and say she's not going home with him.  I will admit it might be a bit questionable for Cash to employ her after accepting the reward for rescuing her.  So maybe she makes the break before Cash receives payment, daddy refuses to pay as a result (which the crew grudgingly accepts because they don't want to mess with a guy who hired heavily armed mercs) and Ami gets forced to help fix up the boat because of that?  (Been thinking the Lucky Strike could be in need of a bit of an overhaul at the beginning of the RPG -perhaps not all of her four engines are working, her electronics are glitchy, etc.)

Not an ideal situation, even then. I do think Ami needs to stand up to her dad, and this might sort of provide the vehicle to do it, but even if she does so, that means either Cash doesn't get paid, or takes a hit on his reputation by not delivering on the goods, so to speak. Either one I can't really say lends a particularly good circumstances for their initial relationship. Ami hurts the crew to bring her aboard, one way, or another. And she's really not so special as to justify the cost, especially for a crew with a rather mercenary outlook. I have a hard time seeing how it works out. I suppose she could be a bit of an indentured servant, in a sense, having to work off the debt she owes to them, but I'm not sure how sensible it would be.

I always had in mind of creating a career criminal as in someone who made their living via criminal activity that doesn't require shooting dudes and dudettes every other day. The thing with a lot of the Black Lagoon characters.... they are all involved in organized crime and criminal activity, but for the major characters, I wouldn't ever say any of them are 'criminals' first and foremost outside of people who are really good at shooting/killing other people. Dutch is ex-military. Balaikala is ex-military. Benny is a computer engineer. Chang is a former cop. And you have other guys...former guerrillas, hitmen, CIA agents, terrorists... but not just straight... criminals except minor characters who are often portrayed as kinda.... incompetent by comparison. (ie the Italian and Colombian gangs) Even with folks like Revy, obviously not ex-military but they're defined more as gunfighters as opposed to just a standard criminal or mobster or what have you.

That's what I liked about Leah, though. For a town full of crooks, none of them really have a background as a career criminal. So, despite Roanapur being portrayed as a whole town of criminals, Leah felt a little different. She's a thief and con-artist good enough to hang around amongst the most dangerous crowd in the world. That said, I suppose the reason that thieves and cons aren't much for Roanpur is that they're good at making a fool out of unsavvy, law-abiding citizens, as opposed to other criminals. Logicstically, it might actually take a more advanced kind of career criminal to pull that off, but as a concept, I still think Leah works. At the very least, because we're not going to be spending all our time in Roanapur, and being able to reason and socially manipulate outsiders is still a valuable skill. It's part of what makes Rock valuable for the Lagoon Company.

And if you grow up in a rural area, you obviously have some woodland skills. You can hunt. You can shoot. You can go camping. And guess what, you can cook meth so you know stuff about chemistry and concoctions and what goes boom and what makes you sick. It's total Anarchist Cookbook stuff.

Holy Cultural Stereotypes, Batman!

That does seem to be overstating it a bit, in all seriousness. I might be an urban city-gal, but my dad is actually from deep woods, rural South territory, living in exactly the kind of environment you're describing. He, and all his relatives and friends growing up, were Good Ol' Country guys and gals, living on the fringes of society, thirty minutes of forest to the nearest small town, surrounded by trees as far as the eyes could, dirt roads and Confederate flags everywhere. And, yeah, lots of meth cookery around, with the vast majority on some kind of drugs, and trading around prescription medicine, or their own brand of moonshine. But, even despite that, I wouldn't call him an experienced hunter. Or much of a gun enthusiast. I suppose he was a camper, but more in "let's haul our trailer up to the lake for the weekend, get pissed drunk and enjoy the fishing" sort. Certainly didn't know much about trapping. I know he doesn't know how to use a bow. I don't think he's set up a tent in his life. And he definitely didn't know anything about setting up a meth lab, even if he did enjoy the product.

That's not to say you don't have access to those skills living in that environment, but backwoods rednecks, just like career criminals, or modern society, for the most part, aren't just full of Renaissance men, who go around mastering everything in their domain. You learn the basic skills you need to survive, and beyond that, people specialize. My dad was an athlete, a physically imposing giant and a strong back, so if anything heavy needed liftin', physical labor needed doin', or an ass needed whoppin', he'd be the man to call. Not for game hunting, fixing up a Harley, or brewing some moonshine. Those would be his brothers and uncles.

Again, that's not to say that Leah can't be introduced to any and/or all of those kinds of skills. But being a rural American doesn't make you automatically proficient, just like being African American doesn't automatically give you superior basketball skills. It takes time to learn those trades, time you wouldn't be using for other pursuits. They are as legitimate as skills as anything else. So, it does add up.

That sounds amazing to me because everything you just said would make for amazing story fodder and an engrossing first story. No need for a clean ending where everything ends up good for the smuggling company. Having to make choices in a range of good to bad options will be a great thing to explore and help develop the characters and move the plot along even more if we all as writers are willing to dive into this potential storyline. :D

I'd normally agree with you. It is sort of a complex dilemma, with no clear answers, that would be awesome to play out. But, in this case specifically, we do have some metagaming realities that would sorta interfere with the choice. After all, they could just do their job, deliver Ami, and wash their hands of the whole thing. Totally legit rationale IC-wise, and in fact, might be the more logical choice for the characters, but, that would mean Ami leaves the game permanently, which is rather undesirable, I imagine. It seems a bit unnatural that they'd be forced to exclude this possibility. I'm still wondering now why they wouldn't, in fact. That's what's troublesome about it, to me.

Your intentions are largely irrelevant to me. A rewrite for the character became somewhat necessitated as a result of said commentary. *shrug* Again, I don't mind writing. I enjoy writing with a purpose in mind.

Necessitated? With all do respect, I think that's a bit of a stretch. I'm glad to hear you're willing to go through the effort, and you actually enjoyed it. But, I don't recall at any point asking for you to rewrite Leah's entire background, skill-set, and even some of her personality. In fact, I went out of my way to say it was largely fine. My request was rather minor, and probably could have been made without cutting much at all, and frankly, I probably wouldn't had made a big deal even if you changed nothing. You decided to rewrite the character, on your own initiative. It was not a necessity.

Like I said when I posted my character originally, I checked the requirements and didn't really read the other bios. They needed a medic and a watercraft operator. Your concerns are baseless because watercraft operator isn't synonymous with mechanic and electrician and whatever engineering field she specializes in. Just because I can change the oil in my car doesn't mean I don't need a mechanic. And in the original anime from the first dozen or so episodes I read (never read the manga) Rock IMHO is almost useless and if it wasn't for plot fiat, would be even less useful. I mean Rock has some business and negotiating skills but in a four person operation, it's rather... exceptional that he's there, which is a major point of the series of course. Benny suffers from this to a degree as well but he has a diverse set of skills, much in line with your Ami character. But Ami has the benefit of having a far more interesting backstory and her background and skillset seems more focused on waterborne craft then Benny's computer engineering background. So I honestly find Ami's role being threatened as completely unfathomable to be honest.

I'm glad you find Ami an interesting character, and thank you for the compliment. But that doesn't matter if we can't find a good reason for her to be with the ship. I'd rather not rely on plot-fiat if I don't have to. You're right that having regular capability to operate a vehicle doesn't necessarily mean that a mechanic is out of a job. But, if you have a responsible owner, who takes the time to educate themselves about regular maintenance and gains a bit of modest understanding of how things work underneath the hood, you can often cut visits to the mechanic out of your life for quite a while. If we have a group of experienced watercraft operators and navigators, who know how to maintain and keep a ship running, how often are you really going to need a mechanic to work on it? Is it often enough to necessitate having said engineer live aboard the ship? Or is it rare enough that a small crew with a private boat can just get by bringing it into a specialist in once in a while?

I'm thinking, if we've got a boat with a fair amount of wear and tear on it, tended by an experienced crew, but often goes into dangerous situations, it's somewhere between the two. So, having multiple mechanics on board seems to bit unnecessary. And if Leah is capable of hanging regular maintenance and upkeep herself, then why would the crew have Ami around, seeing as that's primarily what the latter brings to the table, aside the odd niche scenario? If we can't answer that, then we have a problem.

It's not really a question of whether or not Leah is better than Ami at her specialty. It's just a question of how often that would make a difference, as well as what other things that Ami brings to the table the Leah does not. As Ami's author, I'm not sure that the answer to these questions plays well in her favor.

When I rebuke arguments, I pretty much address every line with a couple paragraphs because I like to crush what I feel is baseless criticism with overwhelming force. For example, taking one line from your original commentary.

That's a pretty generous description of what was in the spoiler. You spent a whole lot less time actually addressing my point, and much, much more comparing Leah to three real life people, for reasons that aren't very clear. I honestly can't say you "crushed" anything, aside a lot of keys in typing it. But, you took the time, so I shall address it, in my own spoiler section.

A Detailed Crushing of Vex's Baseless Arguments

I'm going to do some character comparisons. The first one is Walter Palmer fifty five year old Dentist from Minnesota that was recently outed for trophy hunting a beloved lion. The second one is going to be Sam Sheridan, a writer and his life experience up to the age of thirty, and Chris Kyle, a much lauded Navy SEAL sniper who was recently murdered and whose widow was screwed over Jesse Ventura in a court libel case recently. And we'll compare these characters to my master dabbler, Leah Layleigh.

Can I ask a question? Why? Why are you comparing Leah to these three individuals? Are they important to the plot? Are they characters in the setting? What the point of showing differences between them? I can't say I understand your reasoning for taking as much time as you can to do this. The outcome of this comparison doesn't feel relevant at all. So what if Leah loses to each of these individuals? So what if she dominates them in every category? How is it relevant? To show adventurous people exist? Okay, you showed that. Not really really sure anyone was asking for that to be clarified, but sure.

It feels kinda like you're trying to show that Leah isn't as "game-breaking" as it was being asserted, as far as I can make of it. But, I'll remind you, I never asserted that she was. That was your assertion. I simply said she outshines most of the other characters in most scenarios outside their respective expertise, in which case, she does. Her skills are far more widely applicable than anyone else on the crew, aside perhaps our own Ex-SEAL.

But not being "broken" doesn't mean it's a good fit. If a generalist can replace a dedicated specialist in most instances that are relevant to happen in a given story, then why have the specialist as part of the crew? That's exactly the kind of scenario that leads said support character being deemed as "useless" (as you dubbed Rock). I don't want that to happen. Given the range of sheer skills that Leah has (and even by the end of your comparison to three random skilled people, she doesn't fair so bad), what does it hurt to simply modify her skills so she isn't stepping on someone else's specialty? She's got plenty of other skills to rely on, as you've demonstrated time and time again.

I will comment a bit on the choices you made, because I think there's a side issue that could be addressed by it. Walter Palmer takes vacations in exotic locales, funded by his practice. Sam Sheridan came from money, went to prestigious prep schools and top-tier university. He has family wealth to help fund his trips overseas. Chris Kylie was sent to other countries as part of his missions, paid for by Uncle Sam. Each of these men might had been globe trotters, but each had the money do so such things. This is something Leah lacks. I'm not saying it's impossible to tread from continent to continent if you don't have affluence. People have done it. But it sure makes it a hell of a lot harder.

First off, a medic was required. But she's not an actually formally trained medic. She's actually had pharmaceutical training, and veterinary training and has largely actually been self taught or learned informally. I figure that gave her experience roughly equivalent to a medic (ie the four months a typical medic gets of dedicated medical training or EMT Basic training which is three weeks).

Saying she is a chemist drug manufacturer and poisoner is almost a contentless statement. She can cook meth using chemicals. She can create poisons... because she has a background in pharmaceuticals. A large amount of female murders were actually known for being very good poisoners. Creating poisons isn't a hard thing to do if you know how to cook meth and have pharmaceutical experience. Furthermore I never stated she was a formal chemist. It was mentioned that there was hope she could be when she was young that she could eventually go to college and be a chemist or chemical engineer or whatever because she was a smar tween, but it never happened.

Furthermore, she was never stated to be an explosives expert. She was familiar with explosives. In Michael Moore's documentary Bowling for Colombine he interviews High School Working Class kids who can make pipe bombs (like the Colombine shooters) and nail bombs and knockoff forms of napalm. You can see the videos of people making homemade napalm on Youtube. She grew up cooking meth. She knows how to make things blow up and not blow up since many of the chemicals used in meth and cooking other drugs, can also be applied to the creating of homemade explosives.

As Daril said, a medic wasn't required. I don't think I have much else to add to that. No one's really objecting to it, though.

-Leah has plenty of experience handling and concocting explosives, chemicals, poisons and toxic compounds.

Quoted, from her sheet. That's a very broad statement. I don't see anything on there that suggests she can only cook meth. I don't see anything on there that limits her to basic poisons. I don't see anything that suggests that she can only cook up low-grade pressure explosives. As such, I have to take you by your word alone. And that listing on the sheet implies a lot more than you're saying above. If you didn't mean for her to have any more experience than that, then maybe you need to define her limits more clearly on the final draft.

Either way, my account isn't wrong. Leah is a medic (no contest), she is a chemist (as in, a person who studies and practicies in the field of chemistry), she is a drug manufacturer (again, no contest), and a poisoner (again, no contest). The only possible objection is seeing if she is an "explosives expert", but I'll admit, that itself is something of a vague term. I personally have no issue stating that someone who has "plenty of experience handling and concocting explosives" as an expert on the subject. But maybe your definition differs.

I'm not going to address the comparison aspect of this, because again, I fail to see it's relevance. If you think otherwise, and show me how it matters, I'll go ahead and address them. But, at the moment, I'm not sure what I can say about them. Am I supposed to pick apart their skills or history something? They're not really important to me.

Being a pickpocket, lockpicker and "security expert" which I'm assuming means burglar, almost goes hand in hand. The only exception to this is a con artist (or the term I use grifter). But being a grifter is still fairly common with most criminal activity beyond the street level stuff of mugging, buglarizing, pocket crimes etc. So I don't see it as exceptional. I'm not sure where her being an expert came in. Disabling alarm systems and evading them was described as basic knowledge.

Your own examples show that people can vary in each of these skills. Being a thief doesn't come automatically with breaking-and-entering know-how. As I said before, criminals specialize just like anyone else. It's not like there's a thief certification process that gives one the title of "Thief" if you proficiently pick locks, pick pockets, and disable alarms. Part of that is because how thieves operate differs from one to another. A great con-artist is just as much a thief as a convenience store robber, but that doesn't mean either of them know anything about picking locks. Each of these are legit skills, and take time to learn. Again, not saying Leah can't have had access to them, but it's unfair to dismiss them all as "going hand and hand". They are distinct skills.

Hunting, tracking, wilderness guiding, marksman(woman) and trapping almost all goes hand in hand that listing it individually is baseless. Alex is also a hunter and has military training and experience. Thus she therefore knows everything up here... except maybe archery which Leah is described as having a proficiency in. I don't know about you, but archery doesn't seem to be a very useful skill in this RP. I added it as window dressing for her rural background. How does she compare to the others though. And trapping is just making... traps... kind of shitty hunting. Depending on the nature of it, it might be considered unsportsmanlike.

Again, I think it's a bit amusing that each of your examples counteracts your point that all of these skills "go hand in hand". If they were just a natural extension of being a hunter, you'd think that Walter and Chris would be on virtual even ground in every category. But, they're not. How can that be? Is one just a flat-out better hunter than the other? Or maybe because they're, in fact, separate skills, and not a given proficiency for any one who loves the wilderness? I don't see, then, why you dismiss me separating them with a wave of a hand. It's not like you've actually made the case that these are extensions of a single skill. So, why am I wrong for doing so?

These skills are so common, it is baseless. I think every character in this RP can drive a watercraft and drive a car and knows basic maintenance. She's lightly above the others in watercraft and mechanic crap... though I barely remember remarking on her being a mechanic. Lets compare her to the others.

Again, let me quote the original character sheet, if I may:

-Leah has a general familiarity with motors, machines, vehicles, locks, and other similar machinery due to her background.

That's a very vague statement. That can mean a whole lot of things. I assume, because you write it as part of her skills, that it means you're more proficient than being a simple operator. Otherwise, why state it? No one else bothered to write that they were a capable walker or a steady breather, or to be a little less facetious, a proficient driver. It's assumed most people are these things. If you remark it as part of your skills, I have to assume it's considerably above just knowing what motors, machines, and vehicles are.

I think that's the key to a big part of our misunderstanding. As you said, you barely made a remark about her capabilities as a mechanic, besides mentioning that she boosts cars. But, like any other skill, that's separate from being familiar to how "motors, machines, vehicles, locks, and other similar machinery" work, so I assumed that this wasn't that, or that it at least went beyond that. Thing is, all I have is that vague statement to work with, and like I said, that mean a whole lot of things. In my mind, it meant she was familiar with basic fixes, installations, and maintenance for equipment they have, which is the part that I think steps over on what Ami brings to the table. It's not the water craft operation that worries me. It's that part.

So, to thrust things into more of a productive discussion, what does that statement mean? If you say that she's barely more capable than most people regarding machinery or mechanics, why include that at all? And if she is more proficient than the usual person, then how much more so? Do you think she alone could take care of a ship and keep it running, save for more serious repairs? If you think she can, how does that not threaten Ami's role?

In fact, I could probably extend that much further. A lot of Leah's skills are somewhat broadly stated or vaguely defined. Perhaps more confusion could be avoided in the future if they were more plainly specified as to her limits about such things. That would also help demonstrate that she is truly "master of none".

Whew! Quite a bit. After getting through with that, though, I hope it brings us closer to settling what appears to be, optimistically, a bit of a misunderstanding. I tried to offer as much clarity as I can with the section, so I hope it helps you better understand where I'm coming from and what we can do to move forward.

Example over. So yes... it is honestly simpler. When I read your post, I immediately thought... I should do a line by line rebuttal but didn't want to waste the time or make myself appear mean spirited. Hence, deleting chunks and re-writing two paragraphs actually is (and was) much easier. Nothing facetious about it. Just a matter of practicality.

Master dabbler? Yeah, just like I called her in my original post, right? Not being facetious at all.  ::)

Meh. Honestly, I didn't find it much simpler at all, so I wouldn't call it practical. In the end, we still went piece by piece, and you ended up doing a lot more work that doesn't look like it's going much of anywhere, seeing as it looks you're be adopting something closer to the first version anyway. If that's how you prefer to do so, fine, but I think it would had spared you much more time and effort to just spell out your point of contention in the first place.

In every other primary skill set (hunting, tracking, survival, explosives, firearms, mechanical repair, martial arts, stealth, breaking and entering, tactics, combat skills, marksmanship, driving etc) she's inferior to one if not several of the other crewmembers. She's the most skilled in some regards to niche things... like pickpocketing... and grifting... and cooking meth... and using a bow possibly lol, but I honestly still have no idea how applicable any of those skills would actually be. Honestly, I'm not even sure she'd be all that good in a firefight to be honest. Unless you're a sniper, (which she's not) using a bolt (or lever, or pump) action weapon when your foes have military/combat training and/or experience in most situations is actually a significant disadvantage, especially if they are armed with automatic or semi automatic weapons.

Really? Who's more capable with explosives? Or breaking and entering? Or driving, for that matter? I don't think any of the active profiles mentioned those, so if you're only one who mentioned them, I'd assume Leah is the best in those avenue. Otherwise, why mention them?

It's also a bit debatable just what is a "primary" skill. Aside combat, and seafaring skills, not much has been remarked by Daril as to what will actually come into play. But, if you ask me, I think there are a lot of non-combat skills that will see a lot of use. Locks aren't exactly rare in the world, explosives regularly come into the series, and the money generated from meth could, in fact, be a nice profit for Leah between adventures, seeing as she generally doesn't have to hide it much in Roanapur (although, she might face more competition as a supplier, if she went that route, she's likely not the only meth dealer in town). I think skills in tracking, wilderness survival, and infiltration will come plenty in handy in plenty of jobs as well. And you did specify "semi-automatic" rifles proficiency amongst her skills, which are far less limited in a gun fight than bolt-action rifles are. Maybe not enough to single-highhandedly win battles, but certainly enough to contribute.

Compare those to advance mechanics and see which one comes of more use in these sessions.  :-\

@Vex. I hear where you're coming from with regards to your character balance concerns. The best I could tell you is that from Cash's perspective, redundancy isn't all that horrible a thing. The old adage "two is one, and one is none" is probably something that stuck to him in his travels and time spent with other military folks. Cash will be very adamant that Ami or Leah not go on trips that have a high probability for a firefight, but would find himself taking Alex, Tiny, and Jon as an "Away Team" for particularly prickly situations. This is for the benefit of setting up a smaller team that won't take long to gtfo if needed. To put it bluntly, certain skill sets have no place being under fire unless absolutely necessary. Ami keeps the boat alive, Cash keeps her alive, and the world keeps spinning

It's not really "balance" that concerns me. I think this is another misunderstanding that seems to be plaguing Neysha as well. I don't really care if Ami is the "weakest" member of the team. I'm expecting it. It's simple function that I'm concerned with. What is Ami do for the crew? Her specialty deals with machines, electronics, engines, cars, and private boats. Those are already pretty niche concerns in this game, which is supposed to be fairly focused on action and suspense. If someone else can do that, while performing other duties for the crew, she really doesn't have much of a role, at least not one that really justifies why they're keeping her around. More so, if we end up running with Daril's idea, and she might actually cost him a pay day.

Redundancy isn't that horrible a thing. In fact, having someone else who can help her out in fixing something might be a boon. But, at what point does one become more of a burden than an asset? Space isn't unlimited, and crew have to be paid. It seems to me that, if the crew needs downsizing, and someone else can perform her role most of the time, Ami is first to be out.

So, how am I supposed to react? Acceptance? Should I broaden out Ami's skills a little more, maybe add some more academic interests, or that programing and hacking thing I suggested a while back? Ask Neysha to reel back her familiarity with machines? What do I do?

On an unrelated note, I too support the idea for a character sheet thread. But, if you're reluctant to do so, Daril, than at least consider putting a link up on the first post that links to each individual sheet in the thread. That alone would be a big help.

[Neysha]

To be honest I think I might have preferred a good driver myself, but it sounds like you're really into the medic part so let's roll with that.  It also sounds like you favor the first profile which I think is the better of the two as well.  If possible I'd like her experience aboard smuggling craft to play a larger role, as it would help explain why/how she got a job aboard the Lucky Strike.

As for the weaponry, I'd say the pump action shotgun may be useful, but I really don't see a lot of point in her using a bolt action rifle on jobs.  Even if she has only basic familiarity with the weapon something borrowed from the boat's small arms locker would probably be more useful in a firefight.  It shouldn't be that hard for the other crewers to give her a crash course so she at least knows how to fire some of them.

I actually fully agree. And it can be a character development point.

@Neysha, though it may matter to you or not, I actually liked your first version. I'd simply say that your character has picked up skills, but isn't necessarily a master. The same way that working for a good chef improves your cooking, but doesn't actually make you a chef. Nothing for nothing, I say give it a go.

I know we're still getting stuff together, but if I could request that we get a character thread created, it'll keep me from cycling through the pages. These should be final copies approved and posted by the GM, so that we eliminate as much confusion as possible.

I know we also have some other characters in play, or at least waiting, so if I forgot anyone, be cool lol.

Yeah, the first one will be the one I stick with. I'll just modify it a teensy bit before I make a final submission for acceptance. And yeah, I have to agree, having a list of character profiles would be useful, as I'm also not exactly sure whose in this RP at the moment and with what characters either.

Holy Cultural Stereotypes, Batman!

I was going at it from her POV, not my own. Again, surprised that you apparently made another "misunderstanding."  ::) I guess I'll have to add more qualifiers with every statement I make in this thread to prevent more misunderstandings. :p

Again, that's not to say that Leah can't be introduced to any and/or all of those kinds of skills. But being a rural American doesn't make you automatically proficient, just like being African American doesn't automatically give you superior basketball skills. It takes time to learn those trades, time you wouldn't be using for other pursuits. They are as legitimate as skills as anything else. So, it does add up.

Clearly not, but it does with Leah. Though I don't appreciate the equivocation with skin color based racism. That seems like a cheap metaphor. I'm sorry my lack of qualifiers irked you to the extent you felt the urge to decompress your anecdotal life story, but I thought I was implying it rather clearly that I was explaining her background from her point of view, not trying to malign the poor, white rural people at large. For that I apologize.

Necessitated? With all do respect, I think that's a bit of a stretch. I'm glad to hear you're willing to go through the effort, and you actually enjoyed it. But, I don't recall at any point asking for you to rewrite Leah's entire background, skill-set, and even some of her personality. In fact, I went out of my way to say it was largely fine. My request was rather minor, and probably could have been made without cutting much at all, and frankly, I probably wouldn't had made a big deal even if you changed nothing. You decided to rewrite the character, on your own initiative. It was not a necessity.

No it was necessitated by your criticism. Go back and read the thread please. :)

Really? Who's more capable with explosives? Or breaking and entering? Or driving, for that matter? I don't think any of the active profiles mentioned those, so if you're only one who mentioned them, I'd assume Leah is the best in those avenue. Otherwise, why mention them?

Navy Seals are trained in explosives and both soft and hard entry tactics. I just decided to list out all of the skills that she had that might be relevant or interesting to know. And to think that two of our American characters don't know how to drive... it seems odd to assume that they don't considering their background. And you kind of need a basic driving proficiency to be a Navy Seal, much less in later learning how to pilot watercraft. I'm pretty sure EO mercenaries have similar training and experience.

It's also a bit debatable just what is a "primary" skill. Aside combat, and seafaring skills, not much has been remarked by Daril as to what will actually come into play. But, if you ask me, I think there are a lot of non-combat skills that will see a lot of use. Locks aren't exactly rare in the world, explosives regularly come into the series, and the money generated from meth could, in fact, be a nice profit for Leah between adventures, seeing as she generally doesn't have to hide it much in Roanapur (although, she might face more competition as a supplier, if she went that route, she's likely not the only meth dealer in town). I think skills in tracking, wilderness survival, and infiltration will come plenty in handy in plenty of jobs as well. And you did specify "semi-automatic" rifles proficiency amongst her skills, which are far less limited in a gun fight than bolt-action rifles are. Maybe not enough to single-highhandedly win battles, but certainly enough to contribute.

Contribute is such a bland word I have no idea what it means. And when I stated semi-automatic I meant in regards to the weapons she was using in her profile, which in general outside of maybe the shotguns, would be kind of still terrible to use in most firefights. And I doubt cooking meth will be a factor for several reasons. Drug manufacturers sounds like a terribly boring RP as opposed to action oriented smuggling. Plus Roanapur is located near a nexus of drug trafficking of all sorts and is a big enough city to actually have formed organized gangs of Italian/Italian-American and Colombians operating here as well, so the demand I'm guessing is minimal. But either way, cooking meth isn't a particularly hard skill to learn, certainly not like mechanics, and its relation to this RP is nebulous that I find that whole point rather disingenuous. As for the skills in tracking, wilderness survival and infiltration, I'm pretty sure at least two, if not more other characters have equal if not superior skills in both regards. One has a hunting, mercenary and military background, another IIRC is a former Navy Seal.

It's not really "balance" that concerns me. I think this is another misunderstanding that seems to be plaguing Neysha as well. I don't really care if Ami is the "weakest" member of the team. I'm expecting it. It's simple function that I'm concerned with. What is Ami do for the crew? Her specialty deals with machines, electronics, engines, cars, and private boats. Those are already pretty niche concerns in this game, which is supposed to be fairly focused on action and suspense. If someone else can do that, while performing other duties for the crew, she really doesn't have much of a role, at least not one that really justifies why they're keeping her around. More so, if we end up running with Daril's idea, and she might actually cost him a pay day.

Redundancy isn't that horrible a thing. In fact, having someone else who can help her out in fixing something might be a boon. But, at what point does one become more of a burden than an asset? Space isn't unlimited, and crew have to be paid. It seems to me that, if the crew needs downsizing, and someone else can perform her role most of the time, Ami is first to be out.

So, how am I supposed to react? Acceptance? Should I broaden out Ami's skills a little more, maybe add some more academic interests, or that programing and hacking thing I suggested a while back? Ask Neysha to reel back her familiarity with machines? What do I do?

If Leah having a general familiarity with machines is the problem here, I'm not sure what to say. I stated it as such because a lot of engines on small vehicles, cars, and boats etc tend to have many similar characteristics and you can be a tinkerer with machines like that without being a mechanic. The fact that the main point of your contention was my statement of her have a general familiarity with machinery and that invalidates your character is still something I find bemusing because I'm pretty sure our boat commander probably possesses a similar familiarity with machinery (at least in regards to watercraft), he just didn't bother to add it to his bio.

Honestly, this whole preoccupation with Ami's skillset seems premature. Kind of like with the weapons controversy earlier regarding the machine guns and heavy weapons. I think a lot of these ideas can be explored in the RP itself and if we need to make modifications to characters after the Rp starts, it should be easy enough to do. Most of the things that are being discussed now, including Leah's master dabbler status, can be worked into the role play when it begins and should provide plenty of fodder for IC character development.

I mean seriously, stop short changing your character. She's automatically vastly more interesting nad just as useful as Benny. And far more useful then Rock, whose only usefulness largely is plot fiat. (I don't buy him being good at negotiation unless necessitated by plot, after all Dutch supposedly brokered the peace between Hotel Moscow and the Triads amongst other things) The only skill that Ami might want to add, IMHO, would be some accounting/financial skills possibly. ;)

[Writersblockade]

I don't really think I misunderstood your situation, but that's just opinion, so meh. Ami's situation is very much like Benny's. Granted, Benny was a driver. If you want to make Ami more of a driving  enthusiast, I could understand that. Makes it so that she's in play for outside activities and solidifies her place with the crew.

Also, TBH I liked the hacking aspect. Maybe we don't use it so much, but the fact that it's there makes for an interesting tool.

Also, folks lol. We don't need the back and forth on the character issue.  Oneupmanship can be fun, but after a while it can wear on the group. Change your character if you need to change it. The only approval we technically need is from the GM. This is me asking that we stow it.

[Sessha]

 Guys if I may I think we are blowing this whole thing waaaayyyyyy out of proportion. Personally speaking I want my jack of all trades around for the quick fixes. Not to mention that flexibility gives me another piece that I can put into play. In the situation I would want a dedicated mechanic onboard.  And I'll tell you why. Cause I wanted a dedicated mechanic onboard in case my shit gets broken! That engine is a highly complex piece of machinery, not exactly something I'm going to trust to a jack-of-all trades.  Also for the moment as near as I can tell we are already running the ship at below the full crew compliment. So we need someone down in the engine room on top of things. It's a fact of life. Besides if some manages to make it down to the engine room where Ami has to employ her gun that mission has gone seriously sideways. Those are my two cents on the matter.

[Vex]

I don't really think I misunderstood your situation, but that's just opinion, so meh. Ami's situation is very much like Benny's. Granted, Benny was a driver. If you want to make Ami more of a driving  enthusiast, I could understand that. Makes it so that she's in play for outside activities and solidifies her place with the crew.

Also, TBH I liked the hacking aspect. Maybe we don't use it so much, but the fact that it's there makes for an interesting tool.

Also, folks lol. We don't need the back and forth on the character issue.  Oneupmanship can be fun, but after a while it can wear on the group. Change your character if you need to change it. The only approval we technically need is from the GM. This is me asking that we stow it.

Oneupmanship wasn't my intention, I assure you, but I fear this is what it's ultimately become, or where it may be going. It's my tendency to want to respond to someone who bothers to address me, but it might have gone a little over it's welcome. It's becoming increasingly obvious that further exchanges on the matter aren't becoming any more productive. No worries. I don't see any reason to keep it going. Consider this my concession.

I don't think Ami as much of a driving enthusiast. In fact, given her background, the time this story takes place, and the region, she might not have ever driven a car in her life. I added the possibility that she could have the skill, though, if it would be useful. Strangely, I can see her as a car enthusiast, just as someone who appreciates what a finely-crafted and tuned machine can do. She just doesn't actually drive them. I mean, I'm sure she understands how to drive a car, but, by that token, most teenagers do too. It just takes some experience to learn to drive well.

It was actually Daril who was hesitant about the programmer/hacker idea. He didn't want to devote much time towards it. I said something like you're saying, that we don't have to give it much focus, just keep it in mind in case it were to come up. Still, in her last revision, I sorta drove Ami slightly away from  this idea. But, if you all think it'll be useful, I can make sure to add it somewhere as a possible avenue for her.

Guys if I may I think we are blowing this whole thing waaaayyyyyy out of proportion. Personally speaking I want my jack of all trades around for the quick fixes. Not to mention that flexibility gives me another piece that I can put into play. In the situation I would want a dedicated mechanic onboard.  And I'll tell you why. Cause I wanted a dedicated mechanic onboard in case my shit gets broken! That engine is a highly complex piece of machinery, not exactly something I'm going to trust to a jack-of-all trades.  Also for the moment as near as I can tell we are already running the ship at below the full crew compliment. So we need someone down in the engine room on top of things. It's a fact of life. Besides if some manages to make it down to the engine room where Ami has to employ her gun that mission has gone seriously sideways. Those are my two cents on the matter.

We may have been. My apologies for the inconvenience.

I certainly don't have any aspirations towards having Ami in battle much. It's not really her role in things. Still, this is Roanapur. We're surrounded by possible threats every day, and if they decide to act against us, they're not exactly going to play fair at it. She might just get involved in a fight, despite her efforts to avoid it, by the simple chaos of the life.

And I wasn't really speaking of the boat's capacity so much as the finances. Having someone as part of the crew usually means more than just having a place on the boat. Everyone has needs, be it food, ammo, electricity, what have you, and are likely to expect a certain cut of the profits. It can still be rather expensive for a small operation, even if they're not at technical capacity.

Speaking of, remind me again what boat we ended up settling on? I can't quite remember, and I'm having a little difficulty finding it. A few suggestions, but I can't tell which one we actually stuck with. Or was that not actually decided?

I mean seriously, stop short changing your character. She's automatically vastly more interesting nad just as useful as Benny. And far more useful then Rock, whose only usefulness largely is plot fiat. (I don't buy him being good at negotiation unless necessitated by plot, after all Dutch supposedly brokered the peace between Hotel Moscow and the Triads amongst other things) The only skill that Ami might want to add, IMHO, would be some accounting/financial skills possibly. ;)

So, to make her more useful, you want her to take on one of the roles of the most "useless" member of the Lagoon Crew? Interesting choice.  :P

Still, I'll consider it. For what it's worth, I actually think Benny is the most "useless" member of the crew. I've actually seen unorthodox value in Rock as a unique form of problem solver for the crew. But, I also hesitate to say "useless", because Benny still provides a respectable role. Niche, perhaps, but useful enough. He just also tends not to be very assertive in his crew's affairs, so he gets left out of the spotlight the most.

You seem to think I'm short-changing Ami. So, what do you see in her? What do you think she brings to the table that you feel I'm not recognizing?

[Sessha]

 For starters this is the boat we all agreed upon. It's basically the Soviet version of a PT Boat. http://s-boot.net/sboats-vm-p6.html What we were still discussing was the kind of heavy weapons the boat would carry outside of the one forward single mounted Browning M2 .50 caliber heavy machine gun. There was some discussion on weather to use a SPG-9 Recoilless Rifle or the Mk. 19 Grenade Launcher. Plus the addition of a mountable medium machine gun like either the M60 or the M240. I of course favor the Mk. 19 and the M240 for ease of use, maintenance and overall reliability of the weapons. It seems this is becoming the prevailing thought process as I remember at least one or two other people saying something about these weapons getting added to the ship.

As for Ami and what not on the ship, I don't like that idea. In many of the heavy fire potential cases Dutch took Benny with him while Rock and Revy went another direction. Case in point during the terrorist plot towards the end of season 1. The reason I'd be keeping her on is quite simple as I explained before and because the crew compliment of the ship is a staggering 15 people. (2 officers, 2 petty officers and 11 other crew) We have if we stock it right more than enough resources to fit our small group for a full tour so to speak. Like I said if Ami stays mostly in the engine room and something gets down there then that means the mission has gone completely f-uped Sideways.

I honestly would want someone like Leigh to be up on the deck either manning the M240 or heck even the Mk. 19 or the M2. With her particular skill set she would best be served by being on the top deck rather than down below. Heck I'd almost say that I would ask her to take Alex's Barret  and lay down some heavy sniper fire on the back or forward end of the ship.

The problems that some of the players had with your character was that she had a too diverse set of skills. Granted you did build her originally as a Jack-of-all-trades, but the skill sets you do have were pretty far across the board even for a jack-of-all-trades type. That's been the leading cause of all the tension here. Also I will point this out as well. The gm, Daril made a call and then ended up backpedaling when he shouldn't have. So to that end.

Daril I'm calling you out. This is the time for you to make a call and stick with it. It's your game and you ultimately have final say on all matters pertaining to it. So I'm gonna ask you make a call on this situation and stick with it. I'm trying to be fair and impartial here so we don't loose players over this. I know which side of the argument I fall on but I also put the game above all else as well. So Daril I put it in your hands.

[Daril]

Yeah, this got out of hand.  I likely would have intervened sooner if I'd been around.  I need to sleep sometimes though.  :P

Neysha, Vex, your discussion/argument is causing too much tension, so its over.  I'll take things from here.

Neysha, I'm going to PM you to discuss some things with your character (unfortunately that may not happen today since I'm going out soon and won't be back until very late).

Not an ideal situation, even then. I do think Ami needs to stand up to her dad, and this might sort of provide the vehicle to do it, but even if she does so, that means either Cash doesn't get paid, or takes a hit on his reputation by not delivering on the goods, so to speak. Either one I can't really say lends a particularly good circumstances for their initial relationship. Ami hurts the crew to bring her aboard, one way, or another. And she's really not so special as to justify the cost, especially for a crew with a rather mercenary outlook. I have a hard time seeing how it works out. I suppose she could be a bit of an indentured servant, in a sense, having to work off the debt she owes to them, but I'm not sure how sensible it would be.

The latter was more or less what I was suggesting.  Alternately, although Cash hiring Ami as a mechanic after accepting payment for rescuing her is a bit questionable, I don't see it as totally unworkable if she can convince her dad to give up on her before she takes on the job with Cash's crew.  We could even make her becoming a permanent crew member a gradual process.

I don't think I can really make it work better than either of those options, so it kind of depends whether you think they work well enough.  Personally, I think they do.  Ami is your character though so I will try to come up with something else if you dislike the idea or don't think it will work well enough.  (Basically, what I need from you now is a straight yes or no so that I can figure out whether I'm working with this idea or need to come up with a new one.)

[Vex]

For starters this is the boat we all agreed upon. It's basically the Soviet version of a PT Boat. http://s-boot.net/sboats-vm-p6.html What we were still discussing was the kind of heavy weapons the boat would carry outside of the one forward single mounted Browning M2 .50 caliber heavy machine gun. There was some discussion on weather to use a SPG-9 Recoilless Rifle or the Mk. 19 Grenade Launcher. Plus the addition of a mountable medium machine gun like either the M60 or the M240. I of course favor the Mk. 19 and the M240 for ease of use, maintenance and overall reliability of the weapons. It seems this is becoming the prevailing thought process as I remember at least one or two other people saying something about these weapons getting added to the ship.

Thanks for the clarification. It helps to have an idea of what I'm working with.  ;)

As for Ami and what not on the ship, I don't like that idea. In many of the heavy fire potential cases Dutch took Benny with him while Rock and Revy went another direction. Case in point during the terrorist plot towards the end of season 1. The reason I'd be keeping her on is quite simple as I explained before and because the crew compliment of the ship is a staggering 15 people. (2 officers, 2 petty officers and 11 other crew) We have if we stock it right more than enough resources to fit our small group for a full tour so to speak. Like I said if Ami stays mostly in the engine room and something gets down there then that means the mission has gone completely f-uped Sideways.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'd rather have Ami avoid danger where she can, and even in the situations where she can't avoid it, she'd rather be with someone else than by herself. Unless there's a dramatic turn in her character, she's always going to prefer running or hiding. I'm just speculating off the rather chaotic nature of the series. Even if we take every precaution, we can't necessarily account for every scenario. Besides, it's a fantastic dramatic device, to take a character out of their comfort zone, and thrust them right into a situation they aren't used to dealing with. You're right that a mission has probably gotten pretty f-uped sideways if that happen, but who's to say it won't? Or that it'll happen during a mission?

The latter was more or less what I was suggesting.  Alternately, although Cash hiring Ami as a mechanic after accepting payment for rescuing her is a bit questionable, I don't see it as totally unworkable if she can convince her dad to give up on her before she takes on the job with Cash's crew.  We could even make her becoming a permanent crew member a gradual process.

I don't think I can really make it work better than either of those options, so it kind of depends whether you think they work well enough.  Personally, I think they do.  Ami is your character though so I will try to come up with something else if you dislike the idea or don't think it will work well enough.  (Basically, what I need from you now is a straight yes or no so that I can figure out whether I'm working with this idea or need to come up with a new one.)

I'm not certain either of those scenarios will definitively work out in a way that makes total sense. I mean, I'm sure we can make it work, it just might seem a little contrived. It can't say without seeing how things play out. But, I enjoy your enthusiasm about the prospect, enough that I'm willing to give it a shot. I'm okay with running with it. So, yeah, go ahead.

I'll make some modification to her sheet to accommodate the new scenario. Not much, just a few shifts to be a bit more accommodating, and to take in the suggestions that others have made. I may also make her slightly younger, if we're running with the "arranged marriage" angle as part of it. 24 seems a little on the older side for that sort of thing, as least for the prospective bride at the time we're working with. She's only one year away from being "Christmas Cake", as the Japanese would say at the time. Maybe somewhere in 20-22 range would be more reasonable. Then again, having her be 24 could also help explain why her father might be a little eager to marry her off.

[Sessha]

Thanks for the clarification. It helps to have an idea of what I'm working with.  ;)

No problem glad I could help. :)

Thanks for the clarification. It helps to have an idea of what I'm working with.  ;)

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'd rather have Ami avoid danger where she can, and even in the situations where she can't avoid it, she'd rather be with someone else than by herself. Unless there's a dramatic turn in her character, she's always going to prefer running or hiding. I'm just speculating off the rather chaotic nature of the series. Even if we take every precaution, we can't necessarily account for every scenario. Besides, it's a fantastic dramatic device, to take a character out of their comfort zone, and thrust them right into a situation they aren't used to dealing with. You're right that a mission has probably gotten pretty f-uped sideways if that happen, but who's to say it won't? Or that it'll happen during a mission?

Which I am fine with. Part of the reason I was thinking she could stay in the engine room was so that if combat breaks out she's already in one of the safest places she could be on the ship itself, inside it and on the bottom. Though here might be a thought for you to consider for that little plot point about Ami picking up and using a gun later in the series. Maybe at some point someone does managed to get down there and she has to defend herself. Maybe she grabs one of the guns from the open small arms cabinet and ends up shooting the guy? It's a thought for you.  :-)

Then again, having her be 24 could also help explain why her father might be a little eager to marry her off.

I actually do like the idea of her being nearly 24 and not married. In the mid-90s in Japan and in a few other places in that region a woman lost much of her desirability as a bride when she became 25. That's of course changed in the last like ten or some years, but that was the case back then.

[Daril]

It's a bit tentative because someone could drop out and there may be some further profile revisions, but here's an interim list of character profiles:

My Own Character
Writer'sblockade's "Cash"
Sessha's Alex
Vex's "Amy"
Neysha's "Leah"
Sorrowsinger's "Tiny"

I'd been considering playing a second character in the form of a local girl who was the daughter of a (now deceased) pirate captain, but it looks like we're a bit full up at the moment.

[Neysha]

Updated previous character profile.

[Sessha]

 Alright so what is the current running story for here anyway?

[Daril]

Since Vex seems good with the idea, I was planning to do the story with the crew rescuing her character while after a different cargo.  I might try to start it on the weekend.

[Daril]

Okay, I'm planning to start this game right before the crew launches their attack on the freighter Vex's character is being held prisoner aboard.  That way it won't be long before her character gets a chance to participate.

Now, anyone got any suggestions for a "battle plan"?  I'd been debating whether to try to use speed or stealth to sneak up on the target freighter and board it before the crew knows what's happening, or use the Lucky Strike's heavy weapons to force the vessel to stop, then send over a boarding party by dinghy while one or two crew members remain behind on the torpedo boat itself to provide cover.  The latter option seems the most prudent but we're a bit short on manpower for it (if we leave two crewmembers behind, then we only have a three person boarding party).

Also, I'd still like to have one newcomer among the torpedo boat's crew -I figure it might ease the process of figuring out how our characters relate to each other if some of the characters are still figuring that out themselves.  Who is and is not okay with their character being given a "newcomer" role?

[Sorrow Singer]

Aya can be a candidate for the newcomer position if need be. Shes been a soldier of fortune for several years now and has a less than fully fleshed out background for a reason. Though her unorthodox fighting methods are going to be a little shocking to the crew if they haven't seen her in action before.

[Neysha]

I can go with newcomer as well. My character has the least amount of combat experience AFAIK.

[Writersblockade]

Lol wouldn't that kind of decision be left to the captain?

[Sessha]

 If the group was going after a freighter then the best thing to do is point your heavy weapons at them and have a few people board the ship. Even back then company policy was to let the pirates have the cargo. Plus we have a .50 cal and a Mk. 19 Grenade Launcher. I don't think anyone is going to be doing anything stupid.

Though to be honest our group doesn't have the manpower to knock over a freighter. There's a reason why in shows and movies you always see about 15-20 people storming a big boat like that. Now something like a fishing trawler that's a different story altogether but not a full on freighter. Too many people for three of us to take at ones.

[Daril]

Out of the current candidates, I'm inclined to make Tiny the newcomer to the group.

Lol wouldn't that kind of decision be left to the captain?

In the interest of getting Ami's character involved, I was planning to hit the ground running, with the target ship being spotted in the first post and the crew swinging into action immediately after.  Therefore I think it would be good if the crew already knew the general game plan.  For that matter, it would probably be good if they all knew their specific roles in advance (who's boarding, staying behind, etc.).

If the group was going after a freighter then the best thing to do is point your heavy weapons at them and have a few people board the ship. Even back then company policy was to let the pirates have the cargo. Plus we have a .50 cal and a Mk. 19 Grenade Launcher. I don't think anyone is going to be doing anything stupid.

Though to be honest our group doesn't have the manpower to knock over a freighter. There's a reason why in shows and movies you always see about 15-20 people storming a big boat like that. Now something like a fishing trawler that's a different story altogether but not a full on freighter. Too many people for three of us to take at ones.

A freighter involved in illegal activities might put up more of a fight.  How difficult it would be to take over would probably depend on what sort of opposition is aboard.  I figure our crew isn't expecting more than a few guards this time around.  I was also thinking their plan was to grab some select cargo and go, not try to take the whole vessel back to port.

Couple things with the boat's weaponry.  Earlier, you mentioned a forward mounted .50 -I'd been thinking the .50 could be mounted either front or rear (actually I'd been considering having the boat carry a second .50 so that the option of mounting both front and rear was available).  I also don't remember having an actual vote on the SPG-9 vs MK-19.  We've had one other member who has kind of chimed in both ways on that issue.  I still favor the SPG-9 and its big punch.  The MK-19 might be very effective at sweeping the opposition off the deck of an enemy ship -which is part of the reason I'm not overly keen on it.  I favor including a couple of single shot M203s mounted on old M16A1s to provide grenade launching capabilities.  I figure they'd be useful, but not too powerful.

[Sessha]

My reasoning for liking the Mk. 19 Daril is again a question of logistics and manpower. The Mk. 19 can be operated by one person without any noticeable loss in efficiency, the SPG-9 while more powerful would see a drastic loss in efficiency(at least %50 reduction) when only being operated by one person. Which allow me to demonstrate why it's that high. The gunner is normally concerned with aiming the weapon. It's the loader's job to open the bolt, eject the spent round, load the second round, close the bolt and then lock it down. All the while gunner is drawing a bead on the target. Now imagine ALL that having to be done by one person. The normal rate of fire on an SPG-9 is 5-6 rounds a minute. More than likely a highly trained gun crew can fire up to seven rounds. But one person has to do the work of two. So let's review this new procedure shall we? The gunner fires the gun. Gets out from behind the firing mechanism, opens the bolt, ejects the spent shell, loads the next shell, closes and locks the bolt, sits back down in the gunner's chair and then proceeds to lead his target before pulling the trigger. See how much extra time is added by one person having to perform all those actions themselves? Also the Mk. 19 requires no training to fire where as to get any sort of accuracy out of the SPG-9 you need to be trained in it's use.

Also when you are storming a freighter, reguardless if you are only after one thing on the ship the ability to perform a shock and awe technique of something like the Mk. 19 which can clear a deck in two seconds flat is VERY scary indeed. When you go to knock over a freighter like that the ability of shock and awe is paramount. Being able to lay down a lot of firepower in a very short amount of time guarantees your enemy doesn't do anything stupid. It also decreases the amount of time you are one the boat plus in the ensuing terror of the attack people are rattled and more willing to be compliant if only to stop the shelling.

As for the vote thing I saw someone was talking about it earlier which is why I mentioned it myself.

Now as for the .50 cal. I'm fine with that. Though there was some discussion about the use of an either M240 or M60 machine gun. If you want to put a "Ma Deuce" on the back end I won't say no.

[Daril]

See, I'm leery of giving our characters a weapon that would make destroying pursuing boats or sweeping the deck of a freighter too easy because I want to make things a bit challenging. I'm leery of rotary type grenade launchers for similar reasons.  I'm inclined towards the single shot models.  I can take a formal vote on it if you want though.

As for the machine gun issue, I still favor the M60 over the M240.  My character and Cash would probably be more familiar with the 60 -the 240 would have been a vehicle mounted gun when my character was in service, and it wasn't in service at all during Vietnam.

Actually in general I tend to favor going for somewhat older but still effective weaponry rather than the latest and greatest in this RPG.  Our characters are pirates/smugglers, not lavishly funded special forces.  In fact, I think the chance to play around with some older stuff is part of the fun of a RPG in this setting.

BTW, I don't think we should be going too gung ho until we have a basic battle plan worked out, but here's the start of the IC thread: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?board=346.0

[Neysha]

The M79 Grenade Launcher is a beautifully reliable and rugged implement of war and destruction. :)

"And the R&D guys did produce the M-79 grenade launcher, the finest infantry fielded since the BAR. Colonel George Couch helped develop this compact, lightweight, reliable miracle, which ensured that infantry would never again have to find itself pinned down fifty meters from an entrenched machine-gun position, too far away to toss a grenade, too close for artillery, and nearly impossible to reach and knock out without severe casualties. With the M-79, one well-placed HE round could do the trick."