Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused

[Alliance]

What is the history of your family? Were they elevated to the royal caste by the Grand Prince? Are they one of the truly ancient founding families? How long have they existed otherwise? What is their resource base like and what do they otherwise focus on? What kind of class levels does your character have and why? Are you trying to advocate for change publically? Secretly? Both? Do you have any kinds of ties to Andoran?

Well the Arwell family was never good enough to be one of the ancient families. It's a lot like the story the government tries to tell us now, about how their fathers father grew to become wealthy and somehow their story makes them a hard worker like the rest of us. The Arwell families greater descendants, worked hard for their status and were given to it by the Grand Prince. A newly, but still old established family, the Arwell has only ever been moderately popular and moderately well known. They family itself has probably existed for the last two hundred years. As stated they were newly founded.

The Arwell family has always been into trades and shipment goods, and focuses a lot of their politics on a monopolized capitalism. They focus on trade shipments, and trade between cities and of unknown factions. It's actually generally why they got their position to begin with.

While Duke Lance Arwell is the head of the house, my character is the son. And is inherently his heir to the position. Simply put he was the only child that the Duke's wife ever bore. For unknown reasons she hasn't been able to get pregnant again.

The son, doesn't openly speak his political values. He believes they should be implemented, but tries his hardest to not sack his father's position. When he does speak openly it's under a false name. Actually many of his books are also written under a false name. The only reason his father knows it was him who wrote them is because he caught him in the act of it. And forbid him to write any more of the books.

He is also actively involved and a firm believer of the Andoran mission, but he also tends to keep that quiet.

All though he believes most, and even his own family, is going down the wrong political path. He still loves and cares for his father enough to not tarnish his good name or bring him down. So he tries to keep quiet about what he believes, unless it's amongst trusted friends.

But even that gets slippery when money is involved.

[Phaia]

"Stipends from the crown as well as very favorable tax rates and their own ways of making money has made the order wealthy and has enriched many a 'Lady' over the years."

How much money do they make?  I got the impression that the Royal Family and possibly certain positions enjoy the Ladies for free.

that is an excellent question? How much does a Royal Whore make anyway?

Lets look at the skills and how to make gold with them
Profession and craft let you make half a skill check in gp each week

So lets take the baker and his bubby the armor maker...both lvl 1 each with 1 rank and a class skill and no ability mods...taking 10 [average roll] plus the +4 from the skill gives them a 14 check and therefor 7 gold a week, not bad at all [or course half that goes to taxes in Oppara]
The street performer /staving artiss can also make coin of the perform skill...take that Lvl 1 singer...with 1 in skill rank +3 for class and being an artist a +1 for ability with the standard roll of ten they get a 15 which gives them a 1d10 in sp per day... basically 3.5 gold a week on the average [whcih they also have to pay half in taxes]

Now a Royal lady has advantages, by decree she gets a base 10gp her services and then adds in her profession +1 courtesan +3 class and a +2 at least ability with a average 10 that is a check of 16 or 8 gp... this is per encounter and the lady pays no taxes [though 25% goes to the order] so a lvl 1 lady of the order gets 18 gp for an evening out [and any gifts she may get]

Lady Ahrainna with a 19 in courtesan [from ranks, prodigy, ability ect] and takes a 10 gets a 29 check and makes 24 gp per evening out [again no taxes] ...as for a stipend...lets say the ladies get 10 gp a week for cloths and training [after all they need to look nice at court]

so a normal lady of the order making an average of 18 per night [pays the order 4.5 gp] going 5 nights a week, gives her a tidy 65 gp a week over 3300 a year and in 10 years that's over 33000 gold...now of course a lot of that is spent on all manner of things but a lady should be smart investments have a very nice some of  gold after only a few years

;D ;D
economics in tadlor can be such fun

Phaia

[kckolbe]

I love seeing you do the math, Phaia.  Your numbers are getting me all hot and bothered. 

So I am guessing only the Grand Prince himself enjoys their company for free?  To offset that, each full member gets 10g a week and pays no taxes, just dues to the order.  That is a profitable set up, one likely to make normal prostitutes quite jealous...especially the human ones that aren't allowed to be part of it. 

[Phaia]

i started looking at how Bob the Baker , His Bubby Bill The Armorer and the artestt singer Joey do monthly compared to the cost of living listed
as wella s the cost of hirelings;
Under hirelings I found a nift entry[which mean the designers may list the game as pg but know it can be R]
Companion (5 cp–10 gp/evening): Whether a brazen strumpet, gigolo, saucy tart, escort, or expensive doxy, this person is available for an adventurer who needs intimacy. An hour's diversion typically costs a few silver pieces plus the price of a room.

Well seems that I was not far off in figureing what a Proper Royal Lady should get...

Now Bob and Bill each make 3.5 gp a week after taxes [normally 7 but then we are talking about Taldor] and Joey gets lets call it 2gp a week ...how does that stack for monthly upkeep

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/hunting-camping-survival-gear at the bottem of the page lists monthly upkeep

So Bob and Bill both make 14 gp a month which gives them a low end average lifesytle and joey the artest is poor but has more coin in his pocket at times

what got me was thinking about taxes... Taldor is listed as haveing 109000+ people
lets say 19000 of those are breaded and another 20k work for the governement

Bob and bill [average life sytle probally take up 50% of the rest and poor the other 50%] which works out to 40k average and 40k poor...if after taxs the average can afford that lifesytle then they pay 10gp a month in taxes and the poor 2 gp

80k gp from the poor and 400k from the average probally another 20k from those governemnet workers that means Oppara alone produces 500, 000 gp a month in taxes... any self respecting senator or noble would want a cut of that.

Phaia

[kckolbe]

Actually, only about 1% of Oppara is among the bearded, so around 1,100.

[Ebb]

Actually, only about 1% of Oppara is among the bearded, so around 1,100.

Huh, I had no idea it was that low. I would have guessed 15%. That certainly changes the view a bit.

[kckolbe]

From the pathfinder Taldor wiki:

The massive underclass of "the unbearded" make up 99% of Taldor's population. They are merchants, craftsmen, day laborers, dock workers, vagabonds, soldiers, sailors, and so on.

[Ebb]

From the pathfinder Taldor wiki:

The massive underclass of "the unbearded" make up 99% of Taldor's population. They are merchants, craftsmen, day laborers, dock workers, vagabonds, soldiers, sailors, and so on.

Yeah, but who reads that thing?

[Phaia]

From the pathfinder Taldor wiki:

The massive underclass of "the unbearded" make up 99% of Taldor's population. They are merchants, craftsmen, day laborers, dock workers, vagabonds, soldiers, sailors, and so on.

thats all well and good but its like saying 5% of the US Population works in th Federal Government... yet I bet 25% or more of Washington DC works in the governement

So When I was  figure about 20% of Opparas pop as breaded[i am sure they eat bread] bearded and governemnt is was becuase it is the captial

Phaia

you know based on medieval deomgraphics... about 38000 people lived in 1 sqaure mile of a city so Oppara is about 2 miles square

I have to say I was expecting more... a sprawling capital that was maybe 20 miles a side with a million people

heck by the numbers I am figuring maybe 1 million in all of Taldor so keeping a standing army of 100000 or close to 10% is very expensive and crasy

Phaia

[Kolbrandr]

Actually, only about 1% of Oppara is among the bearded, so around 1,100.

that's 1% of Taldor, not 1% of Oppara. The capital probably sees a fair chunk of its population as the bearded by comparison for density and focus of government, 15% sounding about right, considering the city has whole districts full of rich assholes. Catching up on everything else..

[Kolbrandr]

Also, remember guys, it's a fantasy setting, and at some point you have to sort of be a bit handwavy on things and accept that you are, or they collapse on themselves in a puff of logic. Yes my children, even Westeros is total nonsense if you look at it too hard.

[EroticFantasyAuthor]

I apologize if I missed this somewhere.

With the whole bearded/unbearded social classes, is it actually illegal for someone to have a beard if they're below a certain social rank? Or is it just a mainly time(have the time to maintain it) thing as mentioned earlier?

[Kolbrandr]

I apologize if I missed this somewhere.

With the whole bearded/unbearded social classes, is it actually illegal for someone to have a beard if they're below a certain social rank? Or is it just a mainly time(have the time to maintain it) thing as mentioned earlier?

It is actually illegal if you are a native of Taldor to have a beard if you're below a certain social rank. Foreigners and demihumans are exempt from this (like I say, Taldor is both racist and classist, yet bizarrely tolerant and open at the same time, but I like that for nuance, as compared to one note societies li.. ha ha! I stopped myself that time!)

[EroticFantasyAuthor]

Thank you.  :-)

[RubySlippers]

that's 1% of Taldor, not 1% of Oppara. The capital probably sees a fair chunk of its population as the bearded by comparison for density and focus of government, 15% sounding about right, considering the city has whole districts full of rich assholes. Catching up on everything else..

My character is not an asshole ... wealthy well can't dispute that.  :D

[Phaia]

i was wondering if it is possible to have a spell froma  3rd party [or to have researched it for use]


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/s/summon-weapon
I would love to be able to have this as a Bard spell and fits since a 0 level bard spell is Summon Instrument and it basically reads the same.

Would be darn useful for the order to have this spell so I am asking nicely  O:) O:)
to have been able to research it or have had it researched by the order or just have it

channels Roger Rabbit

"PLUuUUzeeee"

Phaia

[EroticFantasyAuthor]

Kol, would you prefer characters be PMed all in one go, or as each is ready?

[Kolbrandr]

EFA: either's fine.

Phaia: I'm really not wanting to open the third party floodgates over that, sorry.

[Phaia]

okay had to ask!!

I understand fully!!

Phaia

[EroticFantasyAuthor]

Rolls for Cohort 2

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

47544   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:35:36   At 2013-06-22 22:35:36, Cohort 2 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 15
47543   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:35:29   At 2013-06-22 22:35:29, Cohort 2 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 15
47541   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:35:14   At 2013-06-22 22:35:14, Cohort 2 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 10
47540   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:35:07   At 2013-06-22 22:35:07, Cohort 2 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 15
47539   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:35:01   At 2013-06-22 22:35:01, Cohort 2 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 17
47538   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:34:47   At 2013-06-22 22:34:47, Cohort 2 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 14

Rolls for Cohort 3

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

47551   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:37:56   At 2013-06-22 22:37:56, Cohort 3 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 10
47550   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:37:51   At 2013-06-22 22:37:51, Cohort 3 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 16
47549   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:37:44   At 2013-06-22 22:37:44, Cohort 3 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 12
47547   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:37:34   At 2013-06-22 22:37:34, Cohort 3 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 14
47546   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:37:26   At 2013-06-22 22:37:26, Cohort 3 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 17
47545   Noone or Anyone   2013-06-22 22:37:19   At 2013-06-22 22:37:19, Cohort 3 (uid: 43146) rolls: 5d5k3a3 Result: 16

[kckolbe]

That's a lot of cohorts.  So, I am running into some complications with an antagonist NPC.  He's a witch.  I was trying to think of a patron (since all witches have to choose one), and am coming up kinda empty.  The idea is that this character will rise quickly through levels and eventually become an antagonist, but thus far he could use a lot of work, development wise.  Anyone have any ideas?

[Meliai]

Unless you mean the set of spells they get, a lot of witches actually don't know the identity of the being that acts as their patron

[Kolbrandr]

This is what I see as the Orders strengths and weaknesses...what do ya think?

Phaia

Strengths and Weaknesses:

Strengths of the Order:

Bards, Bards, Bards: Anytime a bunch of bards can work together they seem to enhance each others abilities. When you have an entire Order of Bards it just begins to get scary. If one fails to charm, there are always more around. Bards also know way to much and having an entire order of them allows different bards to become very knowledgeable in one or two fields which then aids the others.

Center of Power: Nearly everyday and for many hours a day the Order is in the palace and attending various members of the Royal Family. This gives them near unparalleled access and some claim far too much influence. Being the unofficial protectors of the Royal Family often lets them layer the children from those that want to gain access to them.

Wealth: For their size the Order has a lot of gold. Stipends from the crown as well as very favorable tax rates and their own ways of making money has made the order wealthy and has enriched many a 'Lady' over the years.

Secrets: Over the years the Order has found out many secrets and uncovered many plots. This makes them dangerous to those that would try and use the crown for their own desires.


Weaknesses of the Order:

Bards, Bards, Bards: When even the lowest Lady is forced to become a bard it skews the abilities of the order. Like House Branas completely martial leanings the Order is often to focused on bardic ability and performing when they should be expanding their skill set.

No True Loyalty: Though the order is very influential they have no real allies save the Grand Prince and the Royal Family. There are plenty of houses that if attacked could call on aid from other sources. The Order has to rely on the Grand Prince or their own abilities.

At the Center of power: Being Bards they all have the ability at some point to make suggestions, not the normal kind but those bardic kinds that can make a normal man crow like a duck. Add in they are always around and who knows maybe they are the ones that have caused all the problems for the past 500 years.

No Martial Present: Save for a small house guard the order has no military and really cannot hire a mercenary unit without many questions being asked. So an all out military move on the House would force them to abandon much of what they have built and try and convince the Grand Prince to send out the army in their support.

Nonhuman and all female: Does anything else really need to be said?

Okay.. notes. I wasn't actually picturing them as completely nonhuman, it's fine, but simply on law of averages it would have seemed like they have some human membership. Taldor having mostly humans in it, the Order would basically have to actively seek about to fill its membership with nonhumans. Something particularly more exotic like a catperson, you'd need to hit the slave markets of Katapesh to find, buy and train and free one, for instance, so, not impossible, but something to adjust for conceptually.

Similarly as far as weaknesses, unless you're trying to join the aristocracy, being nonhuman is not really a weakness in Taldor. Being a woman is in various ways, sure.

If you want a measure of social disdain, and it seems as you do, and from the way you've been describing your order, I'd want something like;

"Enmity of the anti Qadiran faction: The Grand Prince having at his disposal what can look to some like a stable of exotic, expensive prostitutes he himself does not pay for the services or companionship of looks to some to resemble the harems of Qaidran Princes and Princesses. This is not a flattering or well received comparison, and being relatively young to Taldor, several more ancient bodies remain displeased by the Order's existence, all of them aligning neatly (and somewhat ironically, given the origins of the order) to those advocating most strongly for war with Qadira. The Licinianus family tends to be at the forefront of such expressed displeasure, along with those they hold influence over. Andronicus Branas has made no particular comment one way or another, but a cold, thousand yard stare of grey eyes, harsh and desolate as the deserts he wages war within, are a difficult thing to read for any impression on any topic generally. Regardless of its source, that antipathy can be a stumbling block to Order efforts to expand their influence or reach out to any particular figure."

Also, off some other things I noted, there should be something in weaknesses to reflect that the order's influence tends to wax and wane with how comfortable any particular Grand Prince is with directly engaging their services. Any that are more reserved aren't likely to be (Stavian III, as you can tell from his picture, is not one of them, sure), leaving the Order with a few generations where they have had to rely on their services being availed on by the aristocracy generally to get by as far as finances. Imperial recognition only goes so far when a Grand Prince is otherwise keeping them at arm’s length. Include that in the no true loyalty bit.

Similarly, the center of power weakness. If it comes off like your Order are magically influencing the rulers of the nation, there would be a rebellion.

[Phaia]

strengths and weakness was the hardest for me to work out

i am not sure i wanted to express the social disdain as much... since as you have pointed out as long as they dont reach for full nobility they are okay

also I made a world building thread here

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=177798.0

please check it over and make comments there or here

it was far easier to work there then keeping sending myself pms

thanks Kolbrandt and I hope this is all good for you

Phaia

[Kolbrandr]

Well the Arwell family was never good enough to be one of the ancient families. It's a lot like the story the government tries to tell us now, about how their fathers father grew to become wealthy and somehow their story makes them a hard worker like the rest of us. The Arwell families greater descendants, worked hard for their status and were given to it by the Grand Prince. A newly, but still old established family, the Arwell has only ever been moderately popular and moderately well known. They family itself has probably existed for the last two hundred years. As stated they were newly founded.

The Arwell family has always been into trades and shipment goods, and focuses a lot of their politics on a monopolized capitalism. They focus on trade shipments, and trade between cities and of unknown factions. It's actually generally why they got their position to begin with.

While Duke Lance Arwell is the head of the house, my character is the son. And is inherently his heir to the position. Simply put he was the only child that the Duke's wife ever bore. For unknown reasons she hasn't been able to get pregnant again.

The son, doesn't openly speak his political values. He believes they should be implemented, but tries his hardest to not sack his father's position. When he does speak openly it's under a false name. Actually many of his books are also written under a false name. The only reason his father knows it was him who wrote them is because he caught him in the act of it. And forbid him to write any more of the books.

He is also actively involved and a firm believer of the Andoran mission, but he also tends to keep that quiet.

All though he believes most, and even his own family, is going down the wrong political path. He still loves and cares for his father enough to not tarnish his good name or bring him down. So he tries to keep quiet about what he believes, unless it's amongst trusted friends.

But even that gets slippery when money is involved.

Alright, that's certainly fine to ground a concept around, would want some detail on if there was some particular thing that got your family raised up to the royal caste, I'd want some general notes on your family and its current state and members (there's a bunch of sample house write-ups throughout the thread and on the wiki). Do you actually have any ties with Andoran to the point of intriguing on their behalf as far as the efforts they make to effect societal change through Golarion?