The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWepvH6LnEw

Just...just...please let me not die until I've seen this. That's all I ask.

[Darkcide]

There is a fourth Avengers though.

[TheGlyphstone]

Captain Beardmerica just looks weird still.

[Mathim]

There is a fourth Avengers though.

But this is the one the whole MCU has been building up to since the beginning. That, at least, is the culmination I've been waiting for. Sure, I'd prefer to see the whole franchise til an ultra-hard reboot (and beyond) but I won't mourn my own impending hypothetical death if I get to see this first.

Captain Beardmerica just looks weird still.

That...I won't argue with. Especially that face he's making while trying to push back Thanos' gauntlet.

[Darkcide]

But this is the one the whole MCU has been building up to since the beginning. That, at least, is the culmination I've been waiting for. Sure, I'd prefer to see the whole franchise til an ultra-hard reboot (and beyond) but I won't mourn my own impending hypothetical death if I get to see this first.

That...I won't argue with. Especially that face he's making while trying to push back Thanos' gauntlet.

No, I mean that part 4 is the second part. This Infinity deal is two movies. So this one is likely gonna end on a cliffhanger of some sort.

[RubySlippers]

I can solve the Infinity War take Vision and send him through Dr. Strange's magic into the multiverse of universes and have him go one way, send the other gem with another guardian another way and perhaps a good choice Thor and make Thanos hunt them down which since both are immortal could be millennia. Then deal with the weakened Thanos with a partial gauntlet. Dangerous but come on with Earth's and alien heroes united they should be able to handle him. Anyway the Vision will die anyway why not run?

But it should be better than the Blank Panther move but come on Wakanda your morons toss the spears and shields and make a bunch of power armor and make flower super hero juice to make a cadre of super soldiers and give them advanced weapons not spears, stupid.

[Darkcide]

I can solve the Infinity War take Vision and send him through Dr. Strange's magic into the multiverse of universes and have him go one way, send the other gem with another guardian another way and perhaps a good choice Thor and make Thanos hunt them down which since both are immortal could be millennia. Then deal with the weakened Thanos with a partial gauntlet. Dangerous but come on with Earth's and alien heroes united they should be able to handle him. Anyway the Vision will die anyway why not run?

But it should be better than the Blank Panther move but come on Wakanda your morons toss the spears and shields and make a bunch of power armor and make flower super hero juice to make a cadre of super soldiers and give them advanced weapons not spears, stupid.

1. By the time he hits earth, he will already have encountered Thor.
2. He is going to have two stones by the time he reaches earth, and with two he is virtually a god. The power stone, and the space stone. With the space stone, he can essentially go where he wants in the multiverse.
3. They do not know he is coming yet, and the teams are split.
4. There is no more heart shaped herb. All of it was destroyed by Killmonger. Even if it wasn't, in the comics, only those deemed worthy by Bast could take it. Trying to get Black Panther powers and not being worthy meant instadeath.
5. They DO have advanced weapons. Their ships fire beam weapons, they have handheld beam weapons capable of stopping tanks. They have sonic based projectile weapons. One of those spears was capable of stopping a moving car, as well as taking down aircraft. All of this was in the movie.

[mia h]

Bit of a left field announcement from DC, there next big movie project is The New Gods. Interesting choice, very ambitious and has huge scope, some of Kirby's early 4th world is way out there with the Forever People and the Hairies. The biggest problem I can see them having is making the characters sympathetic and relatable because they can easily be portrayed as a bunch of aloof, assholes.

[CaptainNexus616]

Bit of a left field announcement from DC, there next big movie project is The New Gods. Interesting choice, very ambitious and has huge scope, some of Kirby's early 4th world is way out there with the Forever People and the Hairies. The biggest problem I can see them having is making the characters sympathetic and relatable because they can easily be portrayed as a bunch of aloof, assholes.

Interesting indeed. Without trying to sound critical or anything, it looks like DC is trying to do the "Cosmic" route and maybe get it off the ground before Marvel does. (Hard to say where in the planning stage Marvel is with Phase 4)

[Darkcide]

Of all the projects DC has announced, I have no idea how many will actually see release. At this point, it seems like they are throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. That being said? I do hope the Deathstroke movie sees release.

[mia h]

I agree, DC have 18 films in development and there's no way all of those get made. If they release 3 a year that would take the DCEU out to 2026.
Of those Flashpoint, The Batman, Suicide Squad 2 are the only ones with confirmed production starts. But Untitled Harley Quinn movie, Untitled Joker & Harley Quinn movie, Gotham City Sirens, Birds of Prey? I can't see them making all of those especially as Batgirl been derailed and does anyone really want a Lobo movie?

[Mathim]

Of all the projects DC has announced, I have no idea how many will actually see release. At this point, it seems like they are throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. That being said? I do hope the Deathstroke movie sees release.

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I heard something about Aquaman being less-than-warmly received in Justice League, or at least just not as well-liked as they were probably hoping, so them moving forward with his solo movie is probably not a great move considering the diminished returns of the ensemble Justice League film. In all honesty, taking a year off, doing a proper Flashpoint movie that very closely follows the animated film which will allow for recasting given how the resolution of the film will alter timelines and whatnot, but also allow them to keep the same actors if desired even if others are replaced. Since Flashpoint is a very dark, but very well-crafted story, there's no reason it can't go down the misguided path Snyder started them on, but then step into the light near the end and not give the impression that everything that follows needs to be similarly dark. Or at least they could stand to lighten things up a little even if the overall tone is dark, like how the Dark Knight had plenty of good laughs. They've just been having a hell of a time finding a balance, although they probably weren't really looking.

I guess the good thing about Aquaman is that it'll give the Hollywood scene a good idea of how to make an underwater adventure film, see what works and what doesn't, so things like a live-action Little Mermaid or Namor movie will be able to be even better if and when they come out.

[Darkcide]

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I heard something about Aquaman being less-than-warmly received in Justice League, or at least just not as well-liked as they were probably hoping, so them moving forward with his solo movie is probably not a great move considering the diminished returns of the ensemble Justice League film. In all honesty, taking a year off, doing a proper Flashpoint movie that very closely follows the animated film which will allow for recasting given how the resolution of the film will alter timelines and whatnot, but also allow them to keep the same actors if desired even if others are replaced. Since Flashpoint is a very dark, but very well-crafted story, there's no reason it can't go down the misguided path Snyder started them on, but then step into the light near the end and not give the impression that everything that follows needs to be similarly dark. Or at least they could stand to lighten things up a little even if the overall tone is dark, like how the Dark Knight had plenty of good laughs. They've just been having a hell of a time finding a balance, although they probably weren't really looking.

I guess the good thing about Aquaman is that it'll give the Hollywood scene a good idea of how to make an underwater adventure film, see what works and what doesn't, so things like a live-action Little Mermaid or Namor movie will be able to be even better if and when they come out.

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I heard something about Aquaman being less-than-warmly received in Justice League, or at least just not as well-liked as they were probably hoping, so them moving forward with his solo movie is probably not a great move considering the diminished returns of the ensemble Justice League film. In all honesty, taking a year off, doing a proper Flashpoint movie that very closely follows the animated film which will allow for recasting given how the resolution of the film will alter timelines and whatnot, but also allow them to keep the same actors if desired even if others are replaced. Since Flashpoint is a very dark, but very well-crafted story, there's no reason it can't go down the misguided path Snyder started them on, but then step into the light near the end and not give the impression that everything that follows needs to be similarly dark. Or at least they could stand to lighten things up a little even if the overall tone is dark, like how the Dark Knight had plenty of good laughs. They've just been having a hell of a time finding a balance, although they probably weren't really looking.

I guess the good thing about Aquaman is that it'll give the Hollywood scene a good idea of how to make an underwater adventure film, see what works and what doesn't, so things like a live-action Little Mermaid or Namor movie will be able to be even better if and when they come out.

Aquabro from what I gathered got a very mixed reaction. The movie didn't give him a lot to work with. I totally hated their take on the Flash btw. But I have heard a lot of talk about Flashpoint being a soft reset. At this point, they need to do something. Black Panther who was not a big name hero destroyed Justice League at the box office.

Allowing Zack Snyder to guide the direction was a terrible idea though. Dude isn't good, and he doesn't like traditional superhero comics.  The tone was off for the movies. But the scripts were bad, they didn't really have a plan, and everything was just poorly thought out. Wonder Woman was a win for them, 2 is probably shooting this year. As far as Aquaman? By all accounts, reports say it will be a fun movie. James Wan is also an excellent director, but idk if Jason Momoa can carry a movie. We also do not know what sort of quality to expect. I think the fan boy wars are dumb, I want DC to get some wins. But I also think Snyder's a crap director and that these failures need to be a lesson. They need to completely reconsider everything. It is like what Universal is facing with the universe they are trying to launch.

If you are going to come for Marvel? You need to have a plan, and you need to have quality.

[CaptainNexus616]

If you are going to come for Marvel? You need to have a plan, and you need to have quality.

I am beginning to wonder how much Warner Bros has been manipulating things from the background. Yes Zack Snyder has been a terrible choice to spearhead the creation of a massive movie universe meant to rival DC's longtime rival.

However I really do wonder how much Warner Bros has been making last minute decisions and such.

Its clear they are just as out of touch as Snyder is, all things considered.

[Mathim]

I am beginning to wonder how much Warner Bros has been manipulating things from the background. Yes Zack Snyder has been a terrible choice to spearhead the creation of a massive movie universe meant to rival DC's longtime rival.

However I really do wonder how much Warner Bros has been making last minute decisions and such.

Its clear they are just as out of touch as Snyder is, all things considered.

Suicide Squad apparently had some major interference kind of late in the game from what I remember. So yeah, they're messing with things, but it's hard to tell if it was for the better without seeing everything as it would have been without the interference. Considering how bad Fant4stic was even after studio interference, but with many claims that the unaltered version was 'unwatchable', and how badly Josh Trank deteriorated throughout production, it does seem like it might be a necessary evil (not that Fox's track record, especially with the F4, inspires much confidence). But they all really need to start listening to fans more. Test audiences who aren't familiar with these kinds of things aren't going to give the right kind of feedback. But really, true fans need to be the ones behind the camera and in the writing room if they want things to get better. I'm not actually sure if some of the Marvel writers are in fact fans but Feige sure the hell is and with a few minor misfires and one major backfire, he's kept things on track and on an upward trajectory. DC does not have a Feige in their corner and it's killing them. Whatever they've been doing to try and remedy this just isn't enough and the only decent thing to do would be to torch the franchise as is and take a year or so off to get their shit together before starting again, and this time by putting their best foot forward, with Batman. Do a proper Batman story with villains who are capable of using magic or the supernatural to build up the mythos of that universe in such a way that we're not left with any ambiguity about the presence of magic in that universe. BvS did such a piss-poor job of making that known when it casually tossed in Wonder Woman at the last minute, and then bashed us over the head with it in Suicide Squad without actually making things any clearer.

[TheGlyphstone]

I like how the Honest Trailers for Thor: Ragnarok put it.

*Screenshot of the planet of infinite garbage*

"Starring: The Current State of the DCEU"

[wander]

Snyder once was a very visually dynamic and sought after director, look to Dawn of the Dead's remake and 300, which cemented his career (at least back then) after his start doing music videos. However then after it became clear he was a bit of a one-trick pony. Watchmen we can say was his first push at doing a supers movie and it barely made a profit and I wonder how much of that profit went to sorting out advertising costs.

WB or creatives in DC must have liked it though and looking to his other films, as whilst Legends of the Guardians performed decently, Sucker Punch did not perform well at all, again it did make a profit, though it probably just about paid for it's advertising with that and you could class it as a bomb for sure. It for sure didn't do the money it would have been projected to make. And I bring it up as after Watchmen would be fairly close to a superhero flick that DC could picture Snyder releasing. Note all three are WB movies and so for sure he was an in-house director for them by then.

Also, it's on record that Snyder before BvS came out would have deconstructed the tropes of Batman that he would be raped in prison if he appeared in one of these films... And yet DC gave this guy control of their shared universe going forward with Man of Steel (which did make massive money for DC afterward, whether the reviews were mixed or not).

I'd particularly say that Snyder after his misstep with Sucker Punch and a damaged reputation was likely cheap and he likely held some chops with WB to boot. Hell, maybe with how Hollywood got exposed last year, I'm not saying he had it, though I wouldn't be surprised if Synder had blackmail material on someone.
Because I cannot see why they'd let him near Superman (successful though he was with Man of Steel) after the trainwreck that was Sucker Punch.

Now here's The Funny thing...

BvS made more money and was more of a profit (doing 4x times it's budget) than Man of Steel (which made 3x it's budget). Suicide Squad made near x7 times it's money back, of course WB would want a sequel film. Obviously Wonder Woman was the biggest success of the DC films. It's only that Justice League has made less of a profit than their other films where things are a worry going forward though they still actually make them profits even if the critics and audiences as a whole care less for them.

Backroom talk, they're basically like the Transformers movies at this point; they're tolerated at best and yet each time one is released, they're making free money for WB and DC. All WB wants to do is make sure the maximum profit they can do is achieved, which is why they're clamouring over themselves to get the next big DC property to make another movie. 'Fuck the critics, fuck the audience, the next one is going to make money'. They're more worried because Justice League didn't fit their projections and make the money they expected, though it still rained in a profit and was not at all a bomb, no matter what critics say. Look at the figures behind it.

That all said, I dig the New Gods lore, was disappointed upon news the next Justice League seemed to be going the whole Injustice League with Lex and Deathstroke thing and I'm eager to see finally some of my fave Kirby characters, like a proper villian in Darkseid and some Scot Free going on, Orion, Big Barda, all that good stuff.

[Arkaniel]

I liked the DC movies so far all well enough to continue want to watch them and I’m not the only one. Regardless of its weak points, in my opinion especially in BvS, I can still enjoy them as watching superhero action flicks. I’m not generally a fan of the grimdark style that Snyder seems to favour, but Man of Steel was my favourite incarnation of superman on the screen so far and it’s scored so many points I want to continue watching the tale. The Wonder Woman movie being very good in my opinion only helps. Suicide Squad was decent enough from someone like me, who isn’t all that familiar with the lore of those characters. Besides Superman in general and the movies of Batman and recently the television show of Flash, I’m not much of a DC fan and never kept up with comics and barely with cartoons, so for me, SS was actually a slightly supernatural, slightly metahuman action flick and for that, it was fun enough for me.

Even the justice league movie was fun enough to watch, though compared to what is actually possible and what Marvel is achieving, it was just underwhelming as a whole.

I just find it a shame that they couldn’t have built a DCMU from the nolanverse batman onwards.

[Mathim]

I liked the DC movies so far all well enough to continue want to watch them and I’m not the only one. Regardless of its weak points, in my opinion especially in BvS, I can still enjoy them as watching superhero action flicks. I’m not generally a fan of the grimdark style that Snyder seems to favour, but Man of Steel was my favourite incarnation of superman on the screen so far and it’s scored so many points I want to continue watching the tale. The Wonder Woman movie being very good in my opinion only helps. Suicide Squad was decent enough from someone like me, who isn’t all that familiar with the lore of those characters. Besides Superman in general and the movies of Batman and recently the television show of Flash, I’m not much of a DC fan and never kept up with comics and barely with cartoons, so for me, SS was actually a slightly supernatural, slightly metahuman action flick and for that, it was fun enough for me.

Even the justice league movie was fun enough to watch, though compared to what is actually possible and what Marvel is achieving, it was just underwhelming as a whole.

I just find it a shame that they couldn’t have built a DCMU from the nolanverse batman onwards.

Nolan kept Batman entirely self-contained and grounded with nothing supernatural, so it wouldn't have been able to work, to expand that out, even though those are (minus TDKR) the best portrayals of Batman ever put to the screen. They had to do a hard reboot and allow for things like mutants such as Killer Croc, and supernatural elements like the Lazarus Pit and Ra's Al Ghul, but they skipped the Batman movie doing that and went right into Suicide Squad. It's like they went with the underpants gnomes strategy and completely missed the critical 'Phase 2' step of doing things.

[mia h]

Now here's The Funny thing...

BvS made more money and was more of a profit (doing 4x times it's budget) than Man of Steel (which made 3x it's budget). Suicide Squad made near x7 times it's money back,

almost; BvS took 3.5 x budget, Squad 4.2 x budget, Wonder Woman 5.5 x budget & JL 2.2 x budget. If look at the X-Men, MCU, DCEU films only 3 have delivered worse returns than JL; X-Men: Last Stand, Incredible Hulk, Fantastic Four

That all said, I dig the New Gods lore, was disappointed upon news the next Justice League seemed to be going the whole Injustice League with Lex and Deathstroke thing and I'm eager to see finally some of my fave Kirby characters, like a proper villian in Darkseid and some Scot Free going on, Orion, Big Barda, all that good stuff.

The director the have lined up, Ava DuVernay, says she's a big fan of Big Barda which is good news. Personally I think the less Orion the better because he is just an angry asshole, slaughtering thousands to create a small distraction is a dick move in anyone's book.

[wander]

Just because a character is unlikeable and a dick shouldn't preclude them from a story. ::)

[mia h]

True, but if the central "hero" has no redeeming qualities, to the point where you're cheering the bad guys on, then you've probably taken a wrong turn with story.
As much as I enjoy Kirby's work, I get the feeling that most of the New Gods won't transfer well from dead tree to silver screen. Now if DC had announced a Star's & Stripe movie, I'd be queuing for tickets now, of course then they'd get accused of copying Homecoming.

[RubySlippers]

I notices at the local game and comic and collectible store the sale of Black Panther movies are not buying the comics its at the bottom, so synergy isn't there the numbers I checked is bad and the printing is low so no one seems to be buying them and its the same for other heroes especially in the new DC and Marvel comics but some seem to be selling locally the rank seems - Avengers and Batman, no one is buying the BP books much I bought the new series. And was maybe one of three doing it and only one was a person of color. I did like the comics so they better than the movie in general.

[wander]

That's because Marvel comics have been trash for a few years now.

The films may do well, though the awful author tracts, ham-fisted politicising and general unabashed hatred to the fandom over social networking and in the quality of the books themselves are chasing away many readers, without going into the nastiness of direct sales from them as a company by comic stores.

PROC possibly, though Black Panther was a controversy as a film, before bringing the comics into it.

[Mathim]

Just because a character is unlikeable and a dick shouldn't preclude them from a story. ::)

They can be a dick and not be unlikable. Like Deadpool or Lobo. Or they can turn them around and make them a secondary antagonist, like how Sinestro wasn't a true villain in Green Lantern but was mostly antagonistic. Besides, look how badly Batman was portrayed, mercilessly killing people left and right, among all the other problems with Batfleck, and yet he was positively received by audiences (despite the overwhelming criticism of everything BvS). So even though it's generally a bad move, they clearly don't have a problem going with it, unless they've decided to finally turn around all their poor decision-making.

Speaking of which...wouldn't Lobo be an awesome character to have in a Superman sequel? Have them do a tag-team thing like on the animated series where they had to work together to beat a stronger enemy despite starting out as opponents. Who would play a good Lobo, I wonder? I mean, I'd probably say Danny Trejo if he was a bit younger. Or just totally CGI him and let Brad Garrett do his voice again, he was fucking awesome as Lobo (and kind of got shafted as the voice of Krang).