Newbie looking for Star Wars or Shadowrun games

[Tavarokk]

That's a tricky concept, since most Shadowrun play is on a tight enough timeline that there isn't any time for custom construction and the gear damage rules aren't usually used either, outside of having a weapon or device bricked by hacking.

The Rigger book goes into more detail on build/repair skills regarding vehicles.  Installing different upgrades requires different levels of tools, the Kit, Shop or Facility (core rules, 443 abstracted by skill type it works with).

I mean, it wouldn't be just downtime construction work, but also dealing with security and access during the operation. It's just that the impression I remember getting is that meatspace technological options are fairly limited, a lot of actions are Matrix-exclusive, and Matrix is basically "go all in on your decking kit or go home". Same deal with drone operation.

[Captain America]

So I will say hyperspecialization is not at all necessary in SR. One thing I love about the system is that you can really go anywhere with it. The only thing that comes close to being a MUST is a second initiative pass, and that isn't really true either. Though the best way to get buy without said pass, often IS hyperspecializing in a one shot kill. Lol  NOT necessary though. Seriously. 

That said most players will because long term it is the best use of Karma (the games XP system). Stack one or two things super high at creation so that 1. You know you are good at something and 2. You can use the Karma you earn on buying more inexpensive stuff to round you out. Because of the tendency of players to do that, specializing becomes a way to keep up with the joneses.

You will find I generally don't hyperspec, and instead use skill range and tools to make up for lack of other things. Eventually as in any game or even life you do want to Excell at SOMETHINGS, but do not feel pressured up front. Not a good shot? Meh we put you on the flame thrower or shotgun or something full auto.  Don't have a zillion cyber things cause of lack of funds? There are cheap tools for most any function. Low locking skill? Thermite and downloaded instructions (skill chip) will get that door... those are very Non nuanced brute examples for speeds sake.

The only thing I consider a YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT, is maybe first aid of 1 and a trauma patch. Buuut Doc Wagon could fix that too...

The more important thing....most E games suffer from the flake out effect and do not get past meeting your first Johnson/client. So all that hyper spec planning goes pppft.  So just have fun with it. Biggest SR issue in 4 and 5 is probably lack of editing on things like breaking locks in the rule books. Most STs just let you use different  skills with a good post.

[TFcommando]

I mean, it wouldn't be just downtime construction work, but also dealing with security and access during the operation. It's just that the impression I remember getting is that meatspace technological options are fairly limited, a lot of actions are Matrix-exclusive, and Matrix is basically "go all in on your decking kit or go home". Same deal with drone operation.

The Lockpicking skill is what you want for physical tech interaction.  It's not super obvious, especially as the skill was previously only mechanical key locks, but now it handles getting past Maglocks and everything else.

[Captain America]

The Lockpicking skill is what you want for physical tech interaction.  It's not super obvious, especially as the skill was previously only mechanical key locks, but now it handles getting past Maglocks and everything else.

When did that happen? Because needing 4 skills and really still being useless at it if you aren't in the matrix was lame.

[Tavarokk]

Opening locks (those fully accessible from the door, at least) directly I remember. Don't a lot of other security devices require contesting access to them first (i.e. placing marks), before you can interfere with their workings, though? It's been some time since I've read the rulebooks, so my memory is hazy, but that was the impression I got.

Granted, it's not bad that all data-related actions are shifted into the matrix combat system, it's just that the entry barrier for it is oddly high. Like, you can't have a full-sized, fixed stat array computer with AR-interface that would be capable of running offensive matrix actions (and soft) or, say, a dongle with a single Program and an Attack or Sleaze rating on it or some such - you get a normal, legal comlink and then a small, light, versatile, full dive cyberdeck with nothing inbetween. Likewise, meatspace actions to the tune of physical access control, hardware/factory reset, messing with traffic going in and out of the device, etc, also felt pretty shallow.

[Captain America]

Yes. Or...if in meatpacking you are using hardware to open the casing,electronics/software to mess w the wiring. Tools seem like they are supposed to add successes/dice but as written some do, others replace your roll entirely. It honestly feels like someone wrote many of the rules in one sitting for security, then did another project, and came back the next week to finish the rules. But by next week, new ideas were floating about, they forgot old ideas, and never edited. Point in fact some devices say add lockpicking, some say locksmithing. Despite one of those not existing fir like 3 editions at that point. Lol

I am fine going as written, but I do like when an ST just says forget the other crap. If you have lockpicking, then it counts as hardware/software/philosophy, or whatever else  in the task of opening THAT lock. You cannot be the Matrix H@xor with lockpicking, but you can open a maglock....in meatpacking.

Tools (sequencer, glove, etc) just use rating as an add on like EVERY other bit of tech in the game does. Lol
Skill groups are the same. Like 4e (Maybe 5) had stupid rules for parachuting.  There is a skill for it, that gets replaced in the appropriate skill group with a nonexistent thing. Lol

That said, Muse I love for being pretty devoted to common sense/what makes the story better. I'd play any of Muses games, but SW would require me learning yet another new game. Lol

[Tavarokk]

Yes. Or...if in meatpacking you are using hardware to open the casing,electronics/software to mess w the wiring. Tools seem like they are supposed to add successes/dice but as written some do, others replace your roll entirely.

Right, I remember that being one of the thing that befuddled me. Matrix combat jamming action using a random device factors your skill in, but operating a dedicated jammer device doesn't  and just uses the jammer's rating O_o

[Captain America]

Well granted in that instance you are actively jamming. Rather than setting a passive device and moving on. So I can get the argument of not "doing the jamming yourself", but also from a mechanical basis you don't want to let actions a decker can take get out of control.

Kind of like if your street Sam could do that with an automated gun. Think Sentry gun from some cuts of the Aliens film. We go into a building,  I just set these in every hallway using their rating+hyperspecialized pc skill pool.  Now my 1 character can effectively engage in 40 different combats at full dice pool, at the same time. The other players would murder me at the gaming table. Lol but an actively controlled device like a meditation makes sense. Auto doctor on its own treating (rating) patients with (rating skill)...makes sense. Mechanics wise.

But yeah I get what you mean. Lol

[Captain America]

That just made me think of team medicine setting a bunch of auto docs at skill +rating to "medicate badguys" while she gets in a separate gun fight. *goes to poke Malkavian for her medic to try it.* lol

[Tavarokk]

I mean, "Operate device" is a player action, can't stack that with itself to infinity. And if player isn't operating the device, then the device is using its own stats only. Sounds straightforward enough.

[TFcommando]

Opening locks (those fully accessible from the door, at least) directly I remember. Don't a lot of other security devices require contesting access to them first (i.e. placing marks), before you can interfere with their workings, though? It's been some time since I've read the rulebooks, so my memory is hazy, but that was the impression I got.

Granted, it's not bad that all data-related actions are shifted into the matrix combat system, it's just that the entry barrier for it is oddly high. Like, you can't have a full-sized, fixed stat array computer with AR-interface that would be capable of running offensive matrix actions (and soft) or, say, a dongle with a single Program and an Attack or Sleaze rating on it or some such - you get a normal, legal comlink and then a small, light, versatile, full dive cyberdeck with nothing inbetween. Likewise, meatspace actions to the tune of physical access control, hardware/factory reset, messing with traffic going in and out of the device, etc, also felt pretty shallow.

I haven't looked at the security stuff before, but on page 359 of the core, a lot of skill uses are discussed.  Lockpicking works with all sorts of locks, keypads, card readers, with specialized gear being used for the biometric ID stuff.  Alarms of all sorts are handled with the Hardware skill, while the sensors require Perception to find and various physical skills to evade. 

Skills should definitely be broad.  Pistols (Using Logic) would surely help you do basic maintenance on your gun, recognize if one has been fired recently, know the general capabilities of it... knowledge skills would provide more detail, naturally. 

[Captain America]

That's what we mean commando. It says that there, then that rule changes.

[Muse]

Gah.  lol 

I offered to run star wars a few months ago and everyone clams up.  Now I peak in and everyone's talking about Shadowrun.  "OMG, did a GM step up and offer to run Shadowrun?" 

Nope, people are hoping I'll do it!  :P 

I'll put it on my list.  *sighs* 

[ererruz]

Count me in if you do Shadowrun :x

[Captain America]

Nope, people are hoping I'll do it!  :P 

I'll put it on my list.  *sighs*

I still have the PC from the last game that Conundrum was running. I think you had made that elven biker/goganger Muse.

[Muse]

:P  I don't believe i ever made a go ganger PC.  But i know who you're talking about.  Just a biker. 

Hehehe.  Well, this is certainly a group that would make it worth my while if I get the time.

Emphesis on if. 

[Captain America]

Yay if. :D