Griping About Politics

[LostInTheMist]

Not sure this is gonna go well, but, let's take a shot at it.

I'm more or less done with politics. I got a degree in political science and I was one of the first volunteers for President Obama. I even met the man, shook his hand. There was something about him. I mean, I was devoted to him being elected even before I met him, but he just had a sort of personal magnetism about him. You could tell that he had been touched by destiny. You don't get to see that a lot. When he met us, we wanted him to be elected. When he left us, we would DIE to get him elected.

Fortunately, we didn't have to die. I managed to convince my family (one brother, one sister, one mother, one father) to vote for him in the primary over Hillary Clinton. It took some doing to get my Mom to do it, but Obama's speech in New Hampshire after losing, (now known as "The Yes We Can" speech) convinced my Dad, my sister, and my brother. I used a loophole in the television reservation rules at my college to reserve the television for twelve hours on election day, from 3 PM to 3 AM, on the theory that it might run long. Of course, it didn't, and Obama was elected.

I think we should have forced single-payer medicare through whie we had a filibuster-proof majority, but what we got in the end was pretty good, even if the Supreme Court is currently dismantling it. It helped me for 10 years, while I was considered an "independent contractor" by my various jobs, so insurance provided by the state was all I had. I am now a "core employee" which means I get employer health care starting as soon as the open season runs.

Okay... so griping about the system. I'm a far left Democrat. The Democrats who get elected, including Joe Biden are too conservative for me. I mean, if we want to lay all our cards on the table, I am a socialist. I recognize that communism doesn't work, because people are not selfless, but if I could have my way, I'd have the state take over every industry and service that is currently privatized, from shipping to health care. Because an efficient state is better at using its resources than a private company, and cheaper, since it's not for profit. This is why a credit union is vastly superior to a bank. A credit union will give you a better interest rate on a loan, and is more likely to give you a loan. My Mom's credit rating was perfect. No, literally, perfect. When she decided to expand her business (which would come to nothing, as she died shortly afterwards) our bank offered her a loan at 2% interest. Very respectable, given her credit rating. Our credit union offered her a loan at 0% interest.

Anyway, this post is for griping about government, local, county, state, or national if you want. I didn't do a very good job of kicking it off, but in this board, I imagine it won't take long for the griping to turn poisonous and the thread to be closed. Try to stay respecftul, pleases, if you can, and if you disagree with someone, accept that their experiences are different from yours.

I'm a socialist democrat, or a far-left democrat depending on how you view me. I am also an American where a two-party system dominates, and this is all I can be.

[GloomCookie]

I think a lot of Americans are fed up with the two party system. Even as a moderate Republican, I do get fed up with the bickering, the constant complaints, and the rivalry that has deadlocked far too many issues that a coalition style government could free up. Unfortunately, without a massive overhaul coming from the States, this likely won't happen since an amendment like this will never come from Congress, they stand to lose too much and don't want to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Galactic Druid]

I normally stay out of PROC, but saw your chat in the shoutbox and at least wanted to contribute a little. Not to echo Gloomy, but I am definitely fed up with the two-party system. I'd call myself a moderate, maybe a bit left leaning, especially when it comes to stuff like LGBT+ rights and healthcare (as someone who has spent the last year financially recovering from being the victim of a hit and run that was absolutely not my fault, I'll be the first to stand up and say out current system sucks), but there's a handful of opinions on the right I do agree with. The worst is on sites like Twitter or reddit, where nothing short of 100% commitment to a party gets you labeled as an enemy by both, and all the terms that come with it.

Unfortunely, it's just like Gloom said, nothing shy of a complete reform, but we have politicians and companies on both sides that have too much invested and far too much to lose to ever let that happen.

[Missy]

People aren't ready to recognize it, but the fact is, we live in a dominant party system and sustain all the shit that comes with it. The only way to fix it is to educate people on the subject, but then no one is listening and is too invested in the status quo to be able to see through the haze resting on their own nose.

[Forsaken]

You should try being a Conservative on a lot of forums! I have been banned simply for stating facts while others get away with flat out abusing me. I don't mind, the truth always comes out and I am vindicated as what I stated is proven even though what I stated was also supported by links and references. Which of course my opponent(s) will deny and cry out for more support whilst they make no attempt whatsoever to support their arguments. I am just supposed to believe them because they think they are righteous.

I actually don't donate to forums because of the way I have been treated many times over.

[Chulanowa]

People aren't ready to recognize it, but the fact is, we live in a dominant party system and sustain all the shit that comes with it. The only way to fix it is to educate people on the subject, but then no one is listening and is too invested in the status quo to be able to see through the haze resting on their own nose.

Honestly all the education in the world isn't going to fix the problems with how power is distributed in the US system. Whoever gets the plurality of votes gets the totality of power; our system is literally just the Pirate King election from Pirates of the Caribbean. Fixing this requires a constitutional amendment, which would have to, you know, pass by several layers of people who have the plurality of votes and thus the totality of power. Sounds likely.

You should try being a Conservative on a lot of forums! I have been banned simply for stating facts while others get away with flat out abusing me. I don't mind, the truth always comes out and I am vindicated as what I stated is proven even though what I stated was also supported by links and references. Which of course my opponent(s) will deny and cry out for more support whilst they make no attempt whatsoever to support their arguments. I am just supposed to believe them because they think they are righteous.

I actually don't donate to forums because of the way I have been treated many times over.

What are the facts you were simply stating that got you banned?

[TheGlyphstone]

We can't even claim to have a working two-party system anymore, to make matters worse. On one side we have the far-right bastion of religious extremists, bigots, and conspiracy theorists, where the handful of remaining 'moderates' are a lonely voice in the wind. On the other side we have a dysfunctional coalition of literally everyone else, from the left-wing firebrands like AOC and Bernie Sanders to the Republicans-in-all-but-name like Joe Manchin.

[Missy]

We can't even claim to have a working two-party system anymore, to make matters worse. On one side we have the far-right bastion of religious extremists, bigots, and conspiracy theorists, where the handful of remaining 'moderates' are a lonely voice in the wind. On the other side we have a dysfunctional coalition of literally everyone else, from the left-wing firebrands like AOC and Bernie Sanders to the Republicans-in-all-but-name like Joe Manchin.

Dominant Party System

[Forsaken]

Honestly all the education in the world isn't going to fix the problems with how power is distributed in the US system. Whoever gets the plurality of votes gets the totality of power; our system is literally just the Pirate King election from Pirates of the Caribbean. Fixing this requires a constitutional amendment, which would have to, you know, pass by several layers of people who have the plurality of votes and thus the totality of power. Sounds likely.

What are the facts you were simply stating that got you banned?

My understanding of this thread is that it's more about the discussion of politics than specifics of politics. So I won't go into anything here.

I will however share with you the story of the last time I got banned. I find it hilarious.

I used the commonly used term "Grammar Nazi" in my request thread,  Simply stating I'm not too hung up on grammar. I got a PM from the  forum Stasi asking me to remove it as it could be offensive to Holocaust survivors.

in the highly unlikely event that there was a Holocaust survivor on the role play forum I would suggest that they are mature enough and due to their experiences un phased by such a term.

I refused to bow down to such an over the top and ridiculous demand. It was a line in the sand moment.I explained my position stating I will not concede to their silliness I got banned.

[TheGlyphstone]

Nah see you have to call them 'Grammar White Patriots' now. They're an important right-wing voting demographic and insulting them by using the N word is bad. ;D

[Forsaken]

Nah see you have to call them 'Grammar White Patriots' now. They're an important right-wing voting demographic and insulting them by using the N word is bad. ;D

You have a point because the irony is you could still play WW2 German soldier x Jewish girl RP's on that site. I mean... not many German soldiers were actual Nazi party members but they still fought for the Nazis. Must be that "N" word!

[TheGlyphstone]

I'm not sure what that has to do with my semi-joking point, since we are talking about contemporary politics.

[Chulanowa]

My understanding of this thread is that it's more about the discussion of politics than specifics of politics. So I won't go into anything here.

I will however share with you the story of the last time I got banned. I find it hilarious.

I used the commonly used term "Grammar Nazi" in my request thread,  Simply stating I'm not too hung up on grammar. I got a PM from the  forum Stasi asking me to remove it as it could be offensive to Holocaust survivors.

in the highly unlikely event that there was a Holocaust survivor on the role play forum I would suggest that they are mature enough and due to their experiences un phased by such a term.

I refused to bow down to such an over the top and ridiculous demand. It was a line in the sand moment.I explained my position stating I will not concede to their silliness I got banned.

Well. Maybe consider there are settings on the dial between 0 and 11  ;D

[Forsaken]

Well. Maybe consider there are settings on the dial between 0 and 11  ;D

I'm very moderate overall. The problem is the Left see anyone with even slightly different views as a Nazi. *whispers* don't tell the Left that the Nazis were Socialists.....

[Notadrywall]

*whispers* don't tell the Left that the Nazis were Socialists.....

I'm amazed that this tired old myth still gets repeated.

[Forsaken]

I'm amazed that this tired old myth still gets repeated.

Yeah it's just part of their name...

[Notadrywall]

And "Democratic" is part of North Korea's name.

[TheGlyphstone]

It's quite common for most people to hold a self-image of being reasonable/moderate, in the same way everyone thinks they are driving the optimal speed on the interstate. But if a person refers to 'The Left' as some sort of monolithic hive mind entity, they're probably not anywhere near as moderate as they might see themself to be. The same goes for people who refer to 'The Right' as a unified bloc, though I don't see that nearly as often outside of the real extremist fringers that I already try to avoid interacting with. Anyone who can't or won't distinguish between people who disagree with them is also someone whose worldview is too narrow to consider the opinions of others.

And "Democratic" is part of North Korea's name.

That's usually my refrain to that nonsense as well. And if the Nazis were socialists, they wouldn't be putting socialists into the concentration camps with red triangle badges on their uniforms:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge

[Chulanowa]

I'm very moderate overall. The problem is the Left see anyone with even slightly different views as a Nazi. *whispers* don't tell the Left that the Nazis were Socialists.....

Well, while we're griping about politics, might as well swing on this.

First, a brief introduction; hello, I am Chulanowa, I am a socialist who trends strongly towards a Marxist-Leninist outlook. You know, good ol'-fashioned Communism; Vanguard party, Democratic Centralism, Dictatorship of the Proletariat, that sort of thing.

The Nazis - and many other National Socialists besides, it's not just for Germans - aren't socialists. They don't even meet the basic stance of all varieties of socialism, not even the goofy quasireligious 18th century Utopian socialisms. This is because the Nazis very ardently believed in private ownership of  the means of production and the total pursuit of profit from such.

Now, you will find Hitler railing against Capitalism. The thing is, this is Hitler we're talking about. Knowing what we all know about Hitler, why would he rail about Capitalism? If your first thought is "I dunno, probably blaming the Jews" ding ding ding, you're right!

To the view of Hitler, "The Jews" controlled capital. "The Jews" were the ones who used international finance to ruin Germany, "The Jews" were behind the socialists and the communists and the trade unions that were "bogging down German industry." As with most things involving this asshole, it was all a grand conspiracy by "The Jews." So his idea was to get rid of all the "Malign Jewish Influence" - get rid of the unions, get rid of the immigrants, get rid of the socialists and the communists and, of course get rid of the Jews how can we forget that part of the plan. And once that was accomplished, German wealth and prosperity and industry would all be back in the hands of the proud and pure German Aryan people. Well. Some of them at least, the ones who owned everything, since they have "proven themselves better" under the social Darwinist doctrines of National Socialism.

That was his notion of "socialism." It's plainly fucking bonkers, and has nothing to do with socialist ideology, beyond some looted and misapplied rhetoric.

Yeah it's just part of their name...

This is a starfish. It is neither a fish (it's not even a chordate) or a celestial ball of superheated magnetized plasma. It's called a starfish because it sometiems resembles a five-pointed heraldic design designated as a "star" and because it lives in water, like a fish.

[Forsaken]

Well, while we're griping about politics, might as well swing on this.

First, a brief introduction; hello, I am Chulanowa, I am a socialist who trends strongly towards a Marxist-Leninist outlook. You know, good ol'-fashioned Communism; Vanguard party, Democratic Centralism, Dictatorship of the Proletariat, that sort of thing.

The Nazis - and many other National Socialists besides, it's not just for Germans - aren't socialists. They don't even meet the basic stance of all varieties of socialism, not even the goofy quasireligious 18th century Utopian socialisms. This is because the Nazis very ardently believed in private ownership of  the means of production and the total pursuit of profit from such.

Now, you will find Hitler railing against Capitalism. The thing is, this is Hitler we're talking about. Knowing what we all know about Hitler, why would he rail about Capitalism? If your first thought is "I dunno, probably blaming the Jews" ding ding ding, you're right!

To the view of Hitler, "The Jews" controlled capital. "The Jews" were the ones who used international finance to ruin Germany, "The Jews" were behind the socialists and the communists and the trade unions that were "bogging down German industry." As with most things involving this asshole, it was all a grand conspiracy by "The Jews." So his idea was to get rid of all the "Malign Jewish Influence" - get rid of the unions, get rid of the immigrants, get rid of the socialists and the communists and, of course get rid of the Jews how can we forget that part of the plan. And once that was accomplished, German wealth and prosperity and industry would all be back in the hands of the proud and pure German Aryan people. Well. Some of them at least, the ones who owned everything, since they have "proven themselves better" under the social Darwinist doctrines of National Socialism.

That was his notion of "socialism." It's plainly fucking bonkers, and has nothing to do with socialist ideology, beyond some looted and misapplied rhetoric.



This is a starfish. It is neither a fish (it's not even a chordate) or a celestial ball of superheated magnetized plasma. It's called a starfish because it sometiems resembles a five-pointed heraldic design designated as a "star" and because it lives in water, like a fish.

I guess turbulent consider the Soviets to be Socialist either? And you'd also deny that Socialism has failed anywhere it has been tried because you would deny any of those countries were Socialist. And you'd also deny all the people killed due to Socialism because Socialism has never been tried anywhere. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

[Notadrywall]

The Soviets were Socialists, socialism hasn't 'failed' any more than any other system, and you should stop putting arguments into other people's mouths.

[Chulanowa]

I guess turbulent consider the Soviets to be Socialist either?

No, they were.

And you'd also deny that Socialism has failed anywhere it has been tried because you would deny any of those countries were Socialist.

Seems like it turned the Soviet Union from a feudal backwater into a leader in space exploration in roughly 50 years. Seems to have changed China from an occupied and divided land of warlords and peasants into the burgeoning economic power of the 21st century. Sure did a great job at liberating Cuba from Mafiosi and plantation slaveowners. Was even really effective at kicking  the shit out of the French and Americans and Chinese during all those invasions of Vietnam - and at deposing that idiot Pol Pot in Cambodia for a bonus prize.

Socialism is an ongoing process. Yeltsin seizing power and firing tank rounds at the Duma doesn't mean "SOCIALISM FAILED," it means an asshole did an asshole thing that set his own country back by forty fucking years.

And you'd also deny all the people killed due to Socialism

Depends. Are we talking about the Romanovs? No, and also fuck them, I'm glad they got shot.

Are we talking about all the imaginary babies that Stéphane Courtois dreamed up that "would have been born if not for communism" in that book he published in 1997? Then yes that's goofy shit.

because Socialism has never been tried anywhere. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Socialism's been tried in all sorts of places and is still ongoing in many. What you're looking for is "communism has never been tried." Which from a Marxist perspective is true, since Communism is a state reached after socialism, and by strict definition is global in scope.

[Forsaken]

The Soviets were Socialists, socialism hasn't 'failed' any more than any other system, and you should stop putting arguments into other people's mouths.

Then why is it always people from Socialist countries seeking to escape to Capitalist countries?

Oh sorry I forgot. Socialism has never been tried anywhere.

Thanks for the aggression too. It proves my point.

[Notadrywall]

They attempt to escape to *rich* countries. Nobody is trying to flee from Cuba to Haiti.

Oh sorry I forgot. Socialism has never been tried anywhere

This literally the opposite of what I said, I already told you to stop putting words in people's mouths.

Thanks for the aggression too. It proves my point

Glass houses.

[Forsaken]

Seems like it turned the Soviet Union from a feudal backwater into a leader in space exploration in roughly 50 years. Seems to have changed China from an occupied and divided land of warlords and peasants into the burgeoning economic power of the 21st century. Sure did a great job at liberating Cuba from Mafiosi and plantation slaveowners. Was even really effective at kicking  the shit out of the French and Americans and Chinese during all those invasions of Vietnam - and at deposing that idiot Pol Pot in Cambodia for a bonus prize.

Socialism is an ongoing process. Yeltsin seizing power and firing tank rounds at the Duma doesn't mean "SOCIALISM FAILED," it means an asshole did an asshole thing that set his own country back by forty fucking years.

Depends. Are we talking about the Romanovs? No, and also fuck them, I'm glad they got shot.

Are we talking about all the imaginary babies that Stéphane Courtois dreamed up that "would have been born if not for communism" in that book he published in 1997? Then yes that's goofy shit.

Socialism's been tried in all sorts of places and is still ongoing in many. What you're looking for is "communism has never been tried." Which from a Marxist perspective is true, since Communism is a state reached after socialism, and by strict definition is global in scope.

That had absolutely nothing to do with Socialism and everything to do with captured German technology and scientists.

Oh wow really? Seriously? I am talking about millions of Ukrainians being killed and starved to death by Russia. I am talking about millions killed in genocides committed by various Communist and Socialist zealots. But of course that is fine by you. Chances are if you were dropped in one of these Socialist hell holes you would be screaming for a ticket back home within minutes.