-Pathfinder- “Finders Keepers” (Interest Check & Info)

[TheGlyphstone]

Is this already full, or is there room for another prospective applicant?

[Ixy]

I agree that 4-6 is preferable.  If you have more applicants than players?  Well, we're all grown-ups.

[Black Howling]

I agree that 4-6 is preferable.  If you have more applicants than players?  Well, we're all grown-ups.

Anything over six is typically too much, I'd agree. And she made it clear before hand that it was an application, so I think everyone should be ready to possibly be denied. >_>

[Mysterica]

Too true.  Too true.

[Sabriel]

I will be sure to keep the group at most numbering six then.

[Black Howling]

I will be sure to keep the group at most numbering six then.

Thing about that is, you are the GM. Despite any say, you would know best at what you could handle. If you say it won't be an issue, I'll believe you. :-)

I was just giving my thoughts on how it would typically turn out.

[Sabriel]

I like to hear others thoughts and opinions and well as I said before my own preference is to stick with 4-6  :-)

I probably won't be choosing just 4 thougth of course, I was not actually expecting so much interest so I am pleased by having that option.

[TheGlyphstone]

I like 6 as well - it gives for a bit of overlap/redundancy in party roles, letting the party be a bit more diverse. Too often, a 4-man party is forced to pidgeonhole into the melee/skills/healing/blasting package - expanding it to 6 lets the division get murky.

[Black Howling]

I like 6 as well - it gives for a bit of overlap/redundancy in party roles, letting the party be a bit more diverse. Too often, a 4-man party is forced to pidgeonhole into the melee/skills/healing/blasting package - expanding it to 6 lets the division get murky.

Agreed, 5-6 is my preferred number.

[TheGlyphstone]

Rules question: The Clouded Vision Oracle's Curse limits sight, but gives Darkvision 60ft. at 5th level. Would the Deepsight feat extend that to 120ft., or would the Oracle's vision range limit take precedence?

[sleepingferret]

Feats are constants, spells aren't.  The only way you could still retain a feat and not meet the prerequisites would be through polymorph, ability score loss, etc.  However, you'd also quite possibly lose the use of that feat(s).

I'm not so sure you could even pick up the feat unless your character possessed Darkvision to begin with.  Though, I would think that Darkvision is Darkvision and the feat if possessed would increase the range of the sight granted by the spell.

[Black Howling]

Feats are constants, spells aren't.  The only way you could still retain a feat and not meet the prerequisites would be through polymorph, ability score loss, etc.  However, you'd also quite possibly lose the use of that feat(s).

I'm not so sure you could even pick up the feat unless your character possessed Darkvision to begin with.  Though, I would think that Darkvision is Darkvision and the feat if possessed would increase the range of the sight granted by the spell.

It's not a spell, it's an oracle curse. You gain darkvision, but only out to a certain range as to represent limited sight. His question is would that be juking the sight limitations, or would it be legit?

I'll also add that as part of the curse, they can only see out to that far.

[Sabriel]

Id imagine that it would not really fit the flavor of the class really

Each oracle is cursed, but this curse comes with a benefit as well as a hindrance. This choice is made at 1st level, and once made, it cannot be changed. The oracle’s curse cannot be removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity.

It does sort of feel from the above statement that it would not really make sense.

Clouded Vision: Your eyes are obscured, making it difficult for you to see. You cannot see anything beyond 30 feet, but you can see as if you had dark vision.

There is also the fact it says you can see as if you had dark vision, so it is not exactly giving you darkvision just mimicking the effect to 30 feet. Id imagine that as it also says it does not work beyond 30 feet no feats that apply to dark vision could really alter it either.

What makes me more convinced is that it actually does say that you gain blindsense and and blindsight at a later level.

[Sabriel]

Ok so update on what I have so far proposed and submitted to me

-Ranger of Tanil
-Fighter/Cleric of Tanil
-Rogue (Fugitive/Investigator)
-Celestial Sorcerer of Madriel
-Fighter/Pyro of Denev
-Barbarian of the Beastlords
- Elven Monk
-Half Elf Soulknife

There still a few who have expressed interest who haven't submitted sheets to or anything yet but well I will be making a decision by the end of tomorrow at the very latest.

I feel I should mention again that I will likely only be accepting one Psionic character if I do accept a Psionic character at all that is.

I noticed a few people have mentioned the Vigils of Vesh too, I thought it would be useful thus to put a bit about them bellow. For those who are not familiar with the setting :) 

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Vigils of Vesh

Number of Members: 3,500
Alignment: Any non-evil
Regions of Influence: Vesh
Primary Activities: Protect Vesh from enemies,
including titanspawn and political foes such as the
Calastian Hegemony and Khirdet; protect allies.
Description
The Vigils of Vesh are the protectors of their
nation, defenders who patrol its borders and beyond.
The Vigils have many allies across the continent, not
the least of whom are the nation’s patron goddesses,
Tanil and Madriel. Through adherence to Tanil’s
chaotic but good alignment and to Madriel’s mercy,
the vigils remain organized and strong without growing
excessively fanatical or conservative.
Even with the support of a goddess, of course, the
Vigils’ job is anything but easy. It is no small task to
protect the fertile lands of Vesh from both ravening
titanspawn and the schemes of foes such as King
Virduk of Calastia without compromising the Vigils’
high principles, but so far they have proved more
than equal to the task.
The Vigils’ fame is well earned. Vigil training
teaches resilience and adaptability, forging its members
into wilderness experts capable of withstanding
the most extreme of conditions. Throughout the
continent, vigilants take on many roles - scouts,
warriors, and teachers, although in such realms as
Calastia they are also called spies, assassins, and
worse. No matter who describes them, however, the
Vigils are acknowledged to be one of the most powerful
and influential groups in all of Ghelspad.
Veshians themselves are sometimes surprisingly
ambivalent about the Vigils. In general, vigilants are
held to be honorable and noble defenders of the nation.
Other voices sometimes criticize the Vigils for exceeding
their authority, taking the law into their own hands,
and presuming what is best for the nation without
consulting its people or its leaders. While it is true that
some vigilants may indeed be overly zealous in their
fight against evil, almost all remain loyal to their realm
and their patron deities. There was, however, one
notable exception, which will be spoken of later.
Vigil oaths are fairly standard throughout Vesh
and originate from some of the original council meetings
between the followers of Tanil and the Veshian
army. They are considered the central tenets of the
vigilant code and are commonly referred to as the
Greater Oaths. Although many vigilants, particularly
those who follow Tanil, are of chaotic alignment,
all respect and obey these oaths as part of their duties
as vigilants. With minor variations depending upon
the Vigil administering them, they are:

1) Obey the people of Vesh and their chosen
leaders in all things.
2) Obey lawful commands as you would the
people of Vesh.
3) Honor the goddesses Tanil and Madriel, and
aid Corean the Avenger and his followers whenever
possible. Honor and respect the followers of Denev
the Earth Mother, save when their actions prevent
the execution of your lawful duties.
4) Defend the weak and avoid taking innocent life.
5) Oppose the titanspawn and the enemies of Vesh in every way possible.
6) You are a vigilant for life.
7) Obey these oaths, for they are the heart and
soul of the Vigils.
In addition to the Greater Oaths, a number of
other, so-called “Lesser” oaths are administered by
the various orders. They are not as rigid as the Greater
Oaths and are more like useful advice to vigilants.
- information is critical to the survival of our nation.
Some pieces of intelligence are more valuable than your
own life, but do not give your life away needlessly.
- Your reports must be as clear and specific as
possible. If you are unsure, say so. Outline your concerns
and the source of information as best as possible. Lies
are poison in the bloodstream of the Vigil.
- Beware sacrificing lives for purposes that cannot
be put into words.
-Preparation is seldom noticed until it is most needed.
Always anticipate future events, and keep your equipment
in the best of condition and your supplies replenished.
- Your eyes are your first weapon. No matter where
you are, remember that enemies may be near.
Alertness and preparation are the hallmarks of a vigilant.
- Wherever you are, be certain that you are in a
place from which, if attacked, you can easily defend
yourself. Instruct companions to do likewise.
- Always travel single file to confuse trackers.
- Be mindful of your enemy.
Move when he cannot see well or when he is least active.
Use his fears and superstitions against him.
Make common cause with his enemies and work against his friends.
- Prisoners should be kept separated so that they
cannot plan or raise each others’ spirits.
- Always post watch. Whenever possible, at least
half of your group remains awake.
- Fortify your camp if possible.
-Avoid predictable patterns when traveling.
Take new routes whenever possible.
- Always deploy scouts when on the march.
- Agree on meeting places encase the party is scattered.
-Those who live by day often strike at dawn.
Those who live by night often strike at dusk. Be wary then.
- Avoid crossing a river by a regular ford.
These are often the sites of ambushes.
- If you are being followed or tracked, circle back
- Use cover often, and move silently.
- Be mindful of your resources. Do not waste
ammunition. Those with missile weapons should attack
the enemy at range, while the others lie in wait.
Violations of the Greater Oaths are considered to be
quite serious. Punishment often involves suspension of
vigilant status, expulsion, or imprisonment. Extreme violations
of Vigil tenets can result in loss of vigilant abilities
or even execution, but these punishments are rarely applied
since such violations are almost unheard of.
The Lesser Oaths, also known as the Standing
Orders, are written in such a way as to be flexible and
open to interpretation. This is almost a requirement,
given the independent and somewhat chaotic nature
of many vigilants. A vigilant who habitually ignores
the Standing Orders may end up being sent back to
training or, if her unorthodoxy proves successful, she
may be recruited as an instructor and her tactics
enshrined as new Standing Orders.
Membership in the Vigils is open to anyone who
meets the order's qualifications and who has proven
loyal to Vesh and the gods of good. Vigilants can be of
any class, though they are most often rangers. The
adaptable nature of the Vigils demands that their
membership be varied, however, and wizards, sorcerers,
clerics, and even rogues are all encouraged to join.
Training is notoriously tough, and geared toward
the applicant's original class. Rangers, fighters, and
other martial types are usually familiar with the rigors
of military life and usually move quickly to the order’s
more advanced training. Spellcasters are often of a
more gentle background and must quickly be brought
up to speed in the fields of combat, tactics, and
military procedures. Militant priests and druids are
especially valued by the vigils, for they combine the
combat skills of fighter-type classes with healing and
other divine magic. Of course, priests of Tanil and
Madriel are the most common applicants, but the
followers of other non-evil deities Hedrada, Denev,
and even the wild god Enkili can occasionally be
found among the vigils’ ranks (though Enkili’s followers
rarely like military life).
During the initial training period, the applicant's
basic skills are assessed and any deficiencies remedied.
A mercenary fighter would be given instruction
in divine spellcasting, while a city-bred wizard is
trained to recognize the sharp end of an arrow, for
example. Once this period, which typically lasts
three to six months, is complete, the applicant is
granted probationary vigilant status and allowed to
accompany routine, low-level missions.
Even low-level missions are difficult, and the
casualty rate is high. Once a new vigilant has completed
one to six of these missions, he is ready for full
membership, and is issued a medallion symbolizing
his bond with the Vigils.

Organization
Each of the Vigils is organized and operates independently
of the others, but all follow the same basic
pattern. Each of the eleven currently existing Vigils has
a different territory and a different symbol. All vigilants
carry magical medallions bearing their order's symbol
and providing different effects depending upon the
Vigil (see Relics and Rituals, page 1 90).
Vigil organization is highly flexible, reflecting
their varied missions and capabilities. The basic unit of
a Vigil is the squad, which varies in size from three to six
unranked vigilants and is led by a vigilant corporal
( 2nd-level vigilant or higher). Two to four squads make
up a platoon, commanded by a sergeant (4th-level or
higher). The next highest division is the company,
usually consisting of four platoons and led by a captain
(6th-level or higher). Three to five companies form a
battalion, commanded by a vigilant-major, and three
to five battalions form a full vigil, under the command
of a vigilant-marshal. A full-strength Vigil can theoretically
contain 800-1000 individuals; in reality, vigils
range in size from 200-500.
Above marshal are commanders, who are assigned to
lead one or more vigils in important missions or times of
crisis, and the lord commander, supreme head of the Vigils,
who reports directly to the Veshian home commander.
Level is not always directly related to rank. Many high-level
vigilants of relatively modest rank enjoy the excitement
and challenge of being an ordinary ranker.
Vigilants are typically lightly-armored infantry,
armed with bows and melee weapons. Those who were
originally rangers favor two-weapon fighting. Mobility
and stealth are favored over sheer striking power, and
heavily armored vigilants are almost unheard of.
Vigilants can also operate as scout cavalry, riding light
warhorses, but much of the terrain in which they
operate - such as the Mourning Marshes - is poor
riding country. Vigilant squads often include at least
one spellcaster for healing or ranged spell support.

Vigilant Admission

By definition, members of the Vigils must have at least one level in the the Ranger class or a fitting prestige class for the order. Scarred Lands GMs may decide that player characters can only become vigilants if they have actually joined the Veshian Vigils. Such a character must have all the prerequisites for the order and apply for membership in the vigils. As experienced adventurers, these applicants might be allowed to bypass normal training and join a vigil directly, but may have to go on some low-level missions to prove their worthiness and skill. Once a character has qualified, she must take the vigil oaths and is then assigned to a suitable vigil (preferably in an area where she and her companions are adventuring). Once this is done, she is given her vigilant medallion, then may add the vigilant class and advance in level. A substantial number of vigilants are given “free roaming” status and allowed to travel independently, so long as they perform their duties for the vigils, obey the oaths, and accept missions as required. Such vigilants often join adventuring companies, using their mobility and flexible tactical qualities to advance Veshian interests.

[sleepingferret]

It's not a spell, it's an oracle curse. You gain darkvision, but only out to a certain range as to represent limited sight. His question is would that be juking the sight limitations, or would it be legit?

I'll also add that as part of the curse, they can only see out to that far.

:o Lol, oops that's what I get for speed reading stuff.  I'll be sulking in the corner with my cursed sight now.

[Senti]

ok got my back story mostly done save touching it up.

she is a grumpy ornary drunk, hopefully working on a jack of all trades.

[Black Howling]

:o Lol, oops that's what I get for speed reading stuff.  I'll be sulking in the corner with my cursed sight now.

Haha!

[Zaer Darkwail]

Thanks for info about Vigils, so Vigils have their own PrC? I am bit curious about that as my soulknife is member of the vigils. He joined vigils for his own reasons as he believes on their cause and they are opposing New Venir among other things. My char has no love for his former home land altough he worries what happened to his mother when she lost both husband and son ten years ago. Also he is not aware he is a adopted orphan. Anyways soulknife fits quite well for Vigils as it is sneaky class and perception and acrobatic skills. Survival comes class skill thanks trait and my half-elf skill focus is in it.

[Senti]

This may need some tweeking and need to add ched and either pic or description.


Storm is the name she goes by now, there are many reasons for that, however its worth remembering that she was always as she is now. Her name had been Eleanor and yes she had been a Lady very minor nobility little more than living in a Castilian that looked over perhaps two villages. She was indeed the only daughter and her mother had giving birth to a stillborn girl. Thus bar the female servants and her nurse she had little female interaction.

However with her nurse she learned the arts of some music, and cooking and needlework, though being brought up without a mother she learned to fight back with her brothers. Not well perhaps but indeed there were times where dirty tactics came into play, well they had to after all the were larger and trained.

As it was the land that her father owned was on the boarder and not only they both he and his sons were called up to fight in a war, they did not return and as the enemy began to encroach upon the land, the elderly captain of the guard made his last stand telling Eleanor to run, and run she did grabbing what was left of her mothers paste jewellery filled with fear and sorrow not only for the loss of her family and the staff that remained, but the loss of that which she had known, her old life.

The money she had from her mother’s jewellery and the few coins that were left soon disappeared, and it was then Elanor had s choice and it was an easy one, she strapped down her breasts and became a boy, in the army…better that than end up as a whore.

Life in the army was not easy but the woman was relatively bright and had a will to survive, thus learned quickly, very quickly. At the time she went by the name of Edward which was her father’s name. As a year or so passed it was obvious that this young ‘man’ was an excellent scout and gradually moved up to going on solo missions or taking out a few FNG’s.

As it was she could spot danger from a distance away, however she did not spot the danger when it was found out she was a woman. One of the young maids had rather crush on her …after a rather interesting encounter  she was then revealed her as a woman. Still Eleanor’s superiors had no wish to loose such a useful soldier and thus the matter was over.

However life in the army took its toll on her, she suffered many injuries and carried many a young recruit back from a mission across her shoulder.  It was worse though when a dying boy would be left while one of the officers would be treated by the healer for some sexually transmitted disease.

As time went on Eleanor slowly became Storm, she began to drink, became insubordinate and was given more and more dangerous missions. Ridiculous missions that made no sense, on the whim of an officer or noble. As it was she was always loyal to her men and normally brought them back in one piece. The woman never left a man behind.

However things finally completely broke inside, when a young FNG was sent with her for no good reason other than he had turned down one of those bastard high ups for a night of passion. It was a vile and terrible exploration into enemy territory and in the end due to the lads inexperience ‘Storm’ lost two of her men, and had to carry him home on her back.  Yes it was as he died there, his blood falling over her clothes and to her skin. As usual the healers were performing their deeds on those that were much higher in rank. As well as needing it less….

Already Storm was drunk which only added to her anger and as the boy took his final breaths the thumped both the priest and then her commander. She also punched out some noble too it was indeed the one that had been turned down.


She could endure the beating the whipping, she had suffered worse, but this was something more than that and apparently she was court marshalled to be killed as she had taken things too far. Obviously this was the last straw and Storm had gone too far well as a flogging she was sentenced to death. Luckily some of her squad helped her escape.  Now the woman is on the run and still as drunk and twice as ornery. 

[Sabriel]

In 3rd and 3.5 yeah they do

But well for this I am sort of ignoring the prestige class mostly, there are some ones with pathfinder which would work for it but mostly Ranger works best.  Since Ranger is really actually better at representing the Vigil of Vesh than the actual prestige class I think specially in Pathfinder.

[Black Howling]

In 3rd and 3.5 yeah they do

But well for this I am sort of ignoring the prestige class mostly, there are some ones with pathfinder which would work for it but mostly Ranger works best.  Since Ranger is really actually better at representing the Vigil of Vesh than the actual prestige class I think specially in Pathfinder.

I'd agree.

[TheGlyphstone]

That is something big in PF's favor - 3.P made almost all the base classes worth taking to 20...Fighter's probably the one one that's still dipping material, and even it gets actual class features now to make levels worthwhile.

[Black Howling]

That is something big in PF's favor - 3.P made almost all the base classes worth taking to 20...Fighter's probably the one one that's still dipping material, and even it gets actual class features now to make levels worthwhile.

Yeah, with the movement and freedom they eventually get with heavy armor mixed with their weapon training, they turn into combat machines. Though, while cool, it tends to feel like you are only good at killing things when you get to the highest levels.

[TheGlyphstone]

Yeah, with the movement and freedom they eventually get with heavy armor mixed with their weapon training, they turn into combat machines. Though, while cool, it tends to feel like you are only good at killing things when you get to the highest levels.

Which, sadly, is why I still don't like them - despite their buffs and bonuses and bigger numbers, they still have exactly two tactical ploys in combat...move and hit once, or stand still and hit multiple times - they're boring. Every other class - heck, even Monks, the former red-headed stepchildren of 3.X - at least has options aside from 'I full attack it'. WoTC finally got melee right with Tome of Battle, but that was the very end of the 3.5 line; I wish Paizo had taken more lessons from that like they did with the monk, rogue, and paladin, instead of just throwing extra plusses at the fighter.

[Black Howling]

Which, sadly, is why I still don't like them - despite their buffs and bonuses and bigger numbers, they still have exactly two tactical ploys in combat...move and hit once, or stand still and hit multiple times - they're boring. Every other class - heck, even Monks, the former red-headed stepchildren of 3.X - at least has options aside from 'I full attack it'. WoTC finally got melee right with Tome of Battle, but that was the very end of the 3.5 line; I wish Paizo had taken more lessons from that like they did with the monk, rogue, and paladin, instead of just throwing extra plusses at the fighter.

There is still a lot you can do with them, and they are actually targeted still at a specific type of player; the slayer. For that kind of guy, they work fine. Some people can still make them interesting, and unfortunately they still come out to be one of the best melee roles in the later levels due to their sheer number of moves. I also like the new combat maneuvers, which can spice it up a little. All in all, I find them fun to play if you make the effort to build them interestingly; but you are right, it's not as easy to make them fun as it is the other classes.

Though I'd like to have seem some Tome of Battle laid in as well, but almost any non magic class would need martial maneuvers or something similar to close the gap.