Book Burning

[ShrowdedPoet]

Ok, it was done long ago.  It may still be done in other countries. 

I was listening to my radio the other day and heard a story about a book burning in the U.S.  It took place in Mississippi, I think that was the state, and it was a christian church burning Harry Potter books and Porn to make the community feel better. 

WHAT?

Just wanted thoughts.

[Sherona]

Give me a moment and I can drag up the other thread this was discussed in about four or five months ago. :)

[ShrowdedPoet]

Give me a moment and I can drag up the other thread this was discussed in about four or five months ago. :)

Ooops. . .I'm sorry. . .didn't realize there was already a thread.  *looks ashamed*

[Celestial Goblin]

For every Harry Potter you burn, I'll burn 100 Chick Tracts!!! ;)

[ShrowdedPoet]

For every Harry Potter you burn, I'll burn 100 Chick Tracts!!! ;)

*laughs and lights the fire for the tracts*

[HairyHeretic]

Dark Dungeons has been providing entertainment to the RPGing community for years now  :D

There's also the MST3K version

http://www.fecundity.com/darkdung/index.html

And the Cthulhu tracts

http://www.geocities.com/tribhis/cthulhutract.html

http://www.fredvanlente.com/cthulhutract/

[Sherona]

Ooops. . .I'm sorry. . .didn't realize there was already a thread.  *looks ashamed*

*grins* One cant possibly be aware of every thread that has ever been made ;) In fact we encourage making new threads rather then performing Thread Necromancy here (when one has something new to say) :)

[Caeli]

This is actually a pretty interesting topic, considering an anime series I've been keeping up with lately. I know a lot of the older generation here on Elliquiy aren't much interested in anime, which is a common interest among today's younger generation, but there are some pretty unique titles out there nonetheless.

I'm currently watching a series titled Toshokan Sensou, which translates as Library Wars. In rough summary, a Japan in future years has become a society in which media, especially books, has become censored so that the government can weed out "harmful material" that poisons the minds of the people. In my opinion, it's a very interesting series that really brings out the issue of censorship vs. freedom of speech. :]

Just thought I would bring that up, since you mentioned book burning. ^^ The anime describes the "future" of book burning, so to speak, and brought up some very interesting debates when I discussed it with a friend of mine.

[HairyHeretic]

Its not a new theme. Wasn't it a central part of Orwells 1984? The Newspeak .. control the language and you control the way people think. Hell, we see it today in how news stories are written, words carefully chosen to shape an opinion, rather than simply the reporting of facts.

[Tant de Tentation]

That, and Fahrenheit 451, most famously--a real pos of a book, but that was the idea--maybe.  XD Perhaps it should ONLY be a movie, to, uh, ironically.... never mind.

I think it highly unlikely that in our present society (and here I'm talking about America) this will become a major issue.  It's not the government burning books; it's not Savonarola's rabid bonfire of the vanities (the Church no longer has that much power, anyway); it's a limited and essentially ineffectual act, and it's an exercise of freedom.

Being pro-freedom in all cases, I must say it doesn't bother me in the least.

Hell, I hate Harry Potter enough (on aesthetic, not moral grounds) to burn a copy or two myself.

[kongming]

I burned my textbooks after I finished high school, does that count for anything?

I agree that it's not really a problem when a small group decide they want to do that - as long as they're not stealing other people's property. So if they seriously buy every copy of Harry Potter from a store, and get all the porn from a service station, and burn all of that, that's fine - it's an expression of their own freedom and stupidity, they're not violating anyone's rights, and funnily enough they're actually helping the causes of their anger by sending money their way.

Of course, if they're stealing "confiscating" these things and destroying them, then the moral issue with that is already covered by it being a criminal offence, and as such they should be treated as criminals and charged accordingly. It would also be useful to remind them of a commandment in their Bible: Thou shalt not steal. Objectively, by their own scriptures, if they stole and destroyed texts, then they sinned and were in the wrong.

But as I said, if they acquired the books and porn legally? Not a problem.

[ShrowdedPoet]

I'm very against burning any type of book.  Books have power and knowledge.  They're important.  To  burn them, I think, is just disrespectful and wrong.

Not directed at you Kong, don't worry.

[calamity]

Being pro-freedom in all cases, I must say it doesn't bother me in the least.

Not to derail the thread, but being pro-freedom in all cases?!  Kant would roll over!  *giggles*

[Tant de Tentation]

Haven't we discussed how I feel about Kant?  The man needs to roll over.  He needs to loosen up.

We can argue about the definition of freedom in another thread, and exactly what kind of freedom I support (Aristotelean, roughly) later.

[MusicNeverDies]

I think book booking is just wrong. Plain and simple it's wrong. ShrowdedPoet said it correctly+nod+ I'm sure most of the people here know what it's like to write and take some pride in anything written, imagine having an entire book of yours burnt, it'd just suck, it's completely rude and ignorant.

And even though book burning is bad, I think it's not as big an issue as book censorship. Groups that burn books are often looked down upon by everyone but those involved as radicalists, where as people who simply forbid people in their group from reading the book are not nearly as disdained for it, but it establishes the same effect, people are cut off from the knowledge in the books.

If someone is old enough to read a book and understand it, they deserve to read it, otherwise how would they grow in knowledge? So many books that are part of the education structure now were deemed as vulgar or satanic or wrong. Shakespeare's a pervert, To Kill a Mockingbird showed what the Southern states wanted to hide, Lord of the Flies just made people worry about other human nature, all these books were hated by some group upon their release[and probably burned] and are now core in [at least Canadian] high school education.

I actually think book burning is my #1 hated +nod nod+ I'll leave you with a personal favourite quote that is relevant

"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture, just get people to stop reading them."- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

[Sabby]

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/06/09/game-burning-it039s-new-book-burning

And the idiocy comes from the Dark Ages to the modern era.

[The Overlord]

I could make a full page harangue on exactly what I think of these conservative buffoons and their lineage for shit like this; 25 years ago they were burning D&D rulebooks or Ozzy records. Fools all, they never bother to see the real causes of society's ills.

IF they are acquiring their HP books and porn legally, then I say burn away, religious morons. You're as bad as the dumbfucks that poured out all their French wine in the gutter when the Frenchies opposed us going into Iraq...because you already PAID for it and the French made their money off YOU.

I'm ROFL'ing again, and enjoying my French wine, and all my porn, and my pagan shit.  ;)

[Jineriq]

I didn't have wine to pour out, nor did I actually get to taste the sweet nectar of Freedom Fries, because by the time I got back on American soil they'd become French Fries all over again and the war on French Stuff had already washed over the populace.

I say burn the books, especially if you believe you're right. Video Games and CDs, too, for that matter.

While I'm not as happy as Overlord, I'm certainly not sad!

[Sabby]

Yes, let them burn their books and their copies of Golden Compass and Grand Theft Auto. Let them make an extremist example of themselves. Its idiocy like this that is bringing about a repeat of the Age of Reason. More and more people are wising up and thinking for themselves on these matters. I've been reading books and playing games and listening to music since I was 5, and a huge majority of that stuff is probably on their bonfires right now, but my parents took an interest in what I read/played/listened to, and they knew I was sensible enough to handle such material. Hell, they made sure of it, and if it had been having a negative impact, they would have taken the stuff from me until I had learned the difference between 'Reality and Fantasy' (tm)

So go ahead, burn it all you tards. Burn anything that doesn't fit in your silly, narrow ways and show the world just how stupid you are. Your your own worst enemy.

[Sherona]

sometimes posts that deal with any kind of religion on this forum this that make me cringe. Really. I would really like to see more reason and less attacking posts that support the ban on book burning. No one is hurting anyone else by burning a copy of books/cd's/movies. I remember growing up and there was a movie that came out and it showed Jesus as a regular guy, including him having mistresses. The christian community was outraged, signed petitions and I know in my neck of the woods the theater yanked the movie.

When one popular cartoon showed a depictation of Mohammad the Muslim community was outraged. I see nothing wrong with this. It is the same thing as posting that someone is a "tard" or "Idiot" for participating in these events, except that they are usually more careful in wording their response so that it does not hurt feelings more then what it already will.

I really wish that people would just have a bit more respect for another person's opinion or way of thinking. *smiles*

for the record nope, I see nothing wrong with books that have been protested. I do not waste my money on Harry Potter drivel or the Golden Compass drivel, I just am not interested in reading Teenager books. If there is a book I feel is inappropriate for my children I just do not buy it, plain and simple. However, as longas these people are not setting fire to others property, not stealing the books, then I see no reason why to insult them.

[Tant de Tentation]

Ah, see, Sherona, while I support free speech and free expression, it isn't always without compunctions...

For instance, the current hyper-PC response to Muslims in Canada (and Europe, and even, to some degree, in America, with that ridiculous battle over whether they could momentarily depict Mohammed on South Park).  It's completely absurd.  The government should not censor themselves--cartoon channels should not censor themselves--no one should censor himself--in response to a perceived threat or even the perceived threat of displeasing people.  That's when you know this stupid PC crap has all gone wrong. 

[Sherona]

Ah, see, Sherona, while I support free speech and free expression, it isn't always without compunctions...

For instance, the current hyper-PC response to Muslims in Canada (and Europe, and even, to some degree, in America, with that ridiculous battle over whether they could momentarily depoct Mohammed on South Park).  It's completely absurd.  The government should not censor themselves--cartoon channels should not censor themselves--no one should censor himself--in response to a perceived threat or even the perceived threat of displeasing people.  That's when you know this stupid PC crap has all gone wrong. 

Oh I agree whole heartedly Tant. :) My point was just as some have the right to get up in arms about someone else using their right (in America btw, I am referring to people doing things on American soil) to hold peaceable gatherings, and to freedom of speech, others have the right to do such. Just as its all ok to call people idiots, morons, tards or whatever else young people are using as slang these days if you don't happen to agree with thier ideology...

My point was simply, if you are going to speak out against something, then one needs to do so in an intelligent fashion so people don't read the insults and say "Pfft ok probably not going to be anyhthing of bulk in this but simply more rhetoric". The world focuses on the loudest 'representation' of any given group. Unfortunately its the closed minded individual spouting rhetoric and/or insults at the opposition that generally is the loudest. *smiles* One of my pet peeves really.

[The Overlord]

While I'm not as happy as Overlord, I'm certainly not sad!

Well for the record I'm not happy that they're able to torch all this stuff; by our own constitution they're able to express themselves in this manner, even if that's the freedom to express their stupidity.

I am mindful however, that people like this have no real interest in freedom of speech, as long as it's something that doesn't conform to their views, and they prove this by their actions; put them in government and see how badly the First Amendment gets hijacked.

In that regard, what would make me most happy is to show them what it means to be truly silenced.

[Sherona]

Well for the record I'm not happy that they're able to torch all this stuff; by our own constitution they're able to express themselves in this manner, even if that's the freedom to express their stupidity.

I am mindful however, that people like this have no real interest in freedom of speech, as long as it's something that doesn't conform to their views, and they prove this by their actions; put them in government and see how badly the First Amendment gets hijacked.

In that regard, what would make me most happy is to show them what it means to be truly silenced.

I wonder how burning a few dozen copies of Harry Potter really hurt anything? Seriously, it certainly does not seem to have prevented the author from selling her books, having them read and making millions I am sure. I could see getting up in armsif the government decided to become completely and utterly conservative fundamental even and banning these books totally, but that has ot happened. A few people burned a few copies of books.

[The Overlord]

I wonder how burning a few dozen copies of Harry Potter really hurt anything? Seriously, it certainly does not seem to have prevented the author from selling her books, having them read and making millions I am sure. I could see getting up in armsif the government decided to become completely and utterly conservative fundamental even and banning these books totally, but that has ot happened. A few people burned a few copies of books.

That in itself doesn't hurt anything, no. If anything they'll make HP even more intriguing, most likely among their own kids, because people will eventually go for something that someone else tells them they can't. And as far as the porn goes...never going to go away. Ever.